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All posts by Billy

Below are all of Billy's postings, with the most recent are at the bottom of the page.

Bob, no, this is the great con you see, relays won't get it, was not commercially viable for them, as usual cost, money talks.
Why you think having spent £50 on a top up TV box, can not get it from Allesley Park, in fact, with no HD, only get as you rightly said 20 channels, for those, older people say, never had channel 5 even, it's heaven, for those with freesat, it's DIRE, big time.

My tests now show, even with rain, I can in the loft at 24 miles away get Lark Stoke, signal strength 80% and quality 100%, hardly any play up, where as there is on my pole one to Waltham.
So next week, when Lark Stoke switches to channels 41 and 44 and 47 I'll do final testing and then take my Log Periodic 22 element with 25 db gain amp down and put in loft.

So my suggestion is, if you want more and you really can not get Sutton, try others:
Mounting A Terrestrial TV Aerial In The UK - 3 Aerial Alignment Calculator (with internet mapping)

Or go freesat, but do not give up, like I said, for some 4 to 20, wow, for others, what the heck, no way, only 20, if I in a huge dip can get two other options, then I know you Bob can also surely experiment a bit and see if you can also get some other main transmitting stations.
Good luck.
Finally a reminder to those that got it before and now can not, likely, the signal now is too strong, see else where on this site or google for it, try: overload when freeview power increased, should bring up some thing for you.

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NOTE NOTE NOTE ********************
Trying to make it stand out, sorry.

Those people not getting channels they used to, may now have over load, massive increase in power.
Many over the years have had hi gain aerials and amplifiers and boosters and not been told that at switch over, with power increased it can be too much, too much can be as bad as too little.

Attenuator is what is likely now needed from places like Maplins.

ALSO Note, just because you have an HD TV does not mean the freeview it comes with is also HD, so likely some, many will find only 20 channels if on a relay.
Those on main transmitter like Sutton, once all this is sorted, should be fine.

Problems arise when on transmitters like Waltham, where BBC booms in on channel 61, but 57 not so, difference in 50,000 to 25,000 kws.

To be seems a right mess up, but there you go.


If you know what you are doing, and perhaps cheaper than attenuators, though won't lose a lot, try adding connections and cables etc. This may also help, remove any boosters, so on.

I hope that helps.
With so many posting now, and not checking previous posts this might be missed, vital info, cause many of you are going to be upset, on finding suddenly what you had before you no longer have while others struggling now get them all solid.

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K, cool, but only recently, having gone satellite since May 2003, gotten back into freeview, when you ring them up, give your postcode, they always insist Sutton no matter what, but can not get it, bill hill in the way, so 17 miles may as well be 50 or more, seriously, that's why always got it from Waltham some 42 miles away.

In testing now, I can get Lark Stoke in the loft on bog standard yagi, what I'd call wideband as I have it now and that's 24 miles away.

80 to 100% signal strength and quality.
That includes the rain last night on tiles, seem to have no effect, medium rain.

In principle I so so so so agree with you, of course anyone knows the slightest thing about this, knows outdoor is better, same as satellite dish, though I have bog standard mini dish in bedroom, well over foot back from window, through glass and curtains, and yet you would say, like most, can not be done, put it outside.

My point is, :).... And not arguing, this is not Big Brother, lol, is that trial and error, saying as seen in most posts by you, it must be outside, no go in lofts, no good, so on, is not always the 100% case.

As you know yourself, for some, they can not legally have one outside.
Am I saying few houses away in the loft, be the same, no way, why it is trial and error, risk, buy aerial from Maplins and DIY trying loft first, or play £150 plus for some guy to come around and put something up outside.

Argos charge 70 pounds, saved a few pounds even on that, by proving so far it can be better in my case in the Loft, as it would outside.

Why, because now having seen rain has no effect on my amplified system and Allesley Park does not interfere with it either it seems, it is less prone to wind, wind only 10 mph on Waltham, tilts the aerial and so lose it, in the Loft won't be the case.

Remember I have to clear the highway, Woberley and A45 even to get to Lark stoke, such is the dip I'm in, yet prove it can be done.

So my message to people would be, I'd recommend outside if you can and can afford it, if not, least try in the loft and with an amplifier and do not give up.

As for Freesat, have it, I want Sky Sports, without paying Murdock and costs more, cheaper option, though all gone up is with Topup TV, can not get that through Freesat.

Am I saying I'll be glitch free, no way, is it annoying, sure, but given I put up with much much much worse back in the day of OnDigital, this is miles better and for sport okay, movies maybe not, miss the odd word being said, but golf and football, it is okay.

So just thought I'd clear all that up.
I should, I concede however done more research to start with, stuck with a £50 top up box, could not return to Argos, not going to be put on Allesley Park, so had no choice, gambling the increases in power would work and they have for me, :).
Thanks anyway Bro.

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Four million homes in Yorkshire, West Midlands "go digital" ton
Wednesday 21 September 2011 2:57PM

Simon: Unlikely unless it is a HD capable box, same with many so called HD tv's with freeview built in, the freeview is SD only, :(.

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Sutton Coldfield (Birmingham, England) Full Freeview transmitte
Wednesday 21 September 2011 3:02PM

Brian my friend, risk getting all technical, as I do believe it or not, not know everything, lol, unless read and learned etc, or shown, which I prefer to be honest, anyway, question:
I've read, but hard finding much info in google, always subject to what you type in, but with Lark Stokes Commercial channels going on the 40's how much lose would that be, so for argument sake:

channel 21 with a gain of 21db will on channel 41 have only 20 db.

I know Aerials compensate for this, but remember I'm keen once I move it into the loft next Wed all being well, to use my new Log Periodic, with only 7.5 db gain and 25 max variable amp.

I know you likely will say not that simple, also tried to find comparison with the db/uv or whatever it is, to the db gain, so for example:

60 db/uv equals 21 db gain


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LOL, sorry, that's me for you.

Err not sure how to explain, as frequencies go higher, I'm away they have more loss, hence CB rig at 27 mhz, great conditions on 4 watts can go miles and miles, base station to base station up high can cover, gosh, 20 or 30 miles, who knows.

But TV at that, LOL, no way, so they transmit often at hundreds or thousands of watts, why, because as the frequency climbs it loses more.

Thing is, we see TV Aerial compensate for this:
Gain (curves), Again

However, if you have a log periodic aerial, they are pretty much flat.

Just because I'm getting channels 23 and 26 at 80 to 100% does not assume I'll get channel 47 from Lark Stoke.

So my question is, do you know of a loss factor, again for example:

Channel 21 at say 20db
channel 41 would be at 18 db
channel 61 at 16 db.

Meaning I'd need 2 db more again on an amp to get the same as I did on channels 23.

I hope that helps.

Also on the other, some talk in, as on my useless meter I bought db/uv, looks like a u, likely not, says 60 poor 70 and 80 okay and the last light 90 Excellent, measures in db/uv so 60 to 80, say 45 to 50 min level for Digital.
But when we talk about Amps, it is mostly in 15 to 25 db gain.
Was one site gave me an idea, showing both, but not 100% sure that means, you know, like some table.

All confusing I know, cause depends on circumstances, aerial in or out, how close you are to a transmitter, and what height aerial and obstacles and Amplifier and oh gosh, you know..... (CV59HG)

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Actually, found this again:
Field Strength Calculator

So it shows 110 (dBuV) at 47 but 113 at channel 23, so nothing in it and way high, but as it states, take about 10 to 20 off:

Note that your results will be of the order of 10-20dB lower than this predicts. To get the signal strength predicted by this calculator your antenna must be several metres higher than surrounding obstructions, house roofs etc and have a clear line of sight to the transmitter. Most domestic installations do not satisfy these requirements, hence assume at least 10dB lower signal levels.

I still think I'll be more than okay and shall see in weeks time.
Thanks anyway Brian, ignore me again, crack on helping others with the change over issues. (CV59HG)

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I know I'm not as technical as I'd like to think, mostly read and learned from trial and error, experimenting, and I know HD channel 40 operates at 256 qam, so maybe Brian can confirm because of that it would be okay, because:

In my year memory and experience, there has to be a game, normally of a few channels, and I presume because of interference, if that is the case, why on earth do we find HD on 40 but then on channel 39, right next to it, Aqv B.

Now imagine, some are using Amplifiers still and hi gain aerial with no problem, as they say live, oh for argument sake, 20 miles plus from Sutton, surely, that will cause problems.
Not and think I've read a lot of the posts, if not all, heard, well, read this mentioned as a possibility yet, only interference and can not get HD unless got it.

Yet we then keep reading, as if they feel insulted as being implied they thick, that the person with the problem, does 100% have an HD tuner in the TV or HD Set Top Box, yet are unable to get channel 41, or, or, it is very weak.

If, if, this is the cause, and surely possible, why on earth sight a channel right next to another.

However, likely Brian or someone will confirm, that it is okay in this case now, because it is two different modes, of Qam, etc.

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I'm a liar and more robust than I thought.

Having settled on Lark Stoke in the loft, claiming, even outside on chimney with high aerial can not get sutton cause of massive hill in way, just tried channel 39 in the loft, signal all over the place, but then loaded them in.
Standard Yagi 18 element, class as a wideband, with 23 db gain amp on, masthead kind, holding it, looks like 60% plus with yellow, not green, but sure can improve this, wow.
This suggests compared to awful analogue and ghosting and so on for decades that the digital one, now boosted is much more robust.
however, further testing will be needed and I may also try the log periodic in loft if this one works out, as better still at the noise rejection unwanted signals.

So stick at it people, try this:

If you got channels great before switchover, say 70% plus ss and quality, then remove amplifiers, if on mast, chimney, get a 12db attenuator.

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Very Interesting:
Box adds channels from other transmitter itself.
Having discovered that I can actually get Sutton in the loft, in a huge dip with hill in way some 17 miles away, I obviously, only wanted those channels, not Allesley Park.

Factory reset and unplugged aerial at back and so on.
Interesting that, unless and it did once, had to do again, it still logged in Allesley Park one, that it should not have happened second time round.

Yet it still seems that it appears it is putting itself on there, which is rather strange.
I think though not 100% sure, manual kinda suggests as such as well.
This might be happening when one of the muxes is not being picked up, some how switching to another one.

Reason for mentioning this is it seems some of you also having problems where factory reset, scan channels in, even manually, and then seems to be picking up another channel/s.
By the way, signals vary on one channel at times, but on the whole, got 80% signal strength and 100% quality, log periodic in loft, high up, pointing upwards, 25 db masthead amp, aerial rated 7.5 db gain tops, so chuffed really.

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