Read this: Outrage in the age of Twitter

Hello, I'm Mr Rajan and welcome to the media Show podcast does Twitter Now edit the news this week the New Yorker rescinded an invitation to Steve Bannon Donald Trumps former strategist after how's about rage on social media celebrities paid in reader Streatham to cancel their subscription New Yorker writers even encourage their followers to email the editor but at the time of enormous commercial pressures magazine maybe it's not cowardice to avoid controversy, but rather common sense or should editors accept that on occasion causing offence.

It's just part of the job these questions and more for our guests today for the world of advertising Sarah Golding is here.

He's a chief executive of ad agency the and partnership fresh off a plane from LA it sounds like Sarah is there is your job to know what consumers think I'll be even more easily offended.

He says Trust is an inherent problem generally in society today in a who can we trust without fake news politicians with so-called polity.

Since that is a problem in a social media is a double-edged sword for appetizers here whilst it can help the spread of an spread the fame of a campaign and give a load of free media to our clients it also gives everyone the opportunity to voice an opinion, but doesn't do people because of social media cause it was good boys do people like to be offended in the way that maybe he didn't 20 years ago.

I think people probably have always been offended by certain things but just now they've got the opportunity to voice their opinions more than they ever did you hear about Teresa's you doing straight to Tara thank you so much for coming in Matthew Wright has just been announced as the host of a new programme on talk radio which fortunately for him at finishes at 16 before the media show goes out and as presenter of The Wright Stuff on channel 5 for 18 years.

I should say he was my first boss in TV Matthew to set a reminder of a partial at Twitter detox detox teach you.

Outside Twitter and the media and it's a really good life and it involves rum coconut lounging around on a beach and Jeremy are not giving a fick for events back in the UK but you on a more serious answer than that and I will just put you to the fact that as far as I understand it most adults in Britain are not on Twitter and what we actually do is we take a small self reflecting relatively small self reflecting bubble and we elevator in the mainstream Media because we haven't got any reporter cells due to cost cutting and the Relentless driving down the journalistic standards, we rely on SOCOM citizen journalism after by people who can't spell putting forward ideas and I'll probably around it and then ramping that isn't it isn't it terrible meanwhile two-thirds of Brits aren't on Twitter welcome to the middle show Matthew let's start with Sandy Minton beddoes on that very subject.

She is only Minton beddoes is the editor-in-chief of The Economist next week The Economist is hosting what it's called in the open future festival as part of the publications 175th anniversary event is I quote an opportunity to help with.

Fresh the Liberal mission 4 modern times I mentioned the New Yorker backtracking on an invitation Steve Bannon to speak out so Festival because of the noise made above all on Twitter which Matthews just talked about how many one of your speakers is Steve Bannon but last night you should a statement saying that your invitation to bandon, remained open why because I think it's important that he is at this event the reason I invite him to this event of the three different context as good as you said this event on September 15th as the culmination of a kind of 5 month initiative to remake the case for liberal values by engaging with our supporters and crucially are critics on a whole load of issues from the future of capitalism to the role of free speech to the impact of technology the event the festival is going to be in Hong Kong London New York all on the same day and we wanted to continue that conversation in a life format and as part of that we're discussing the future of liberalism.

It's important to me there for to have people who disagree with our values and Steve Bannon is one of the most prominent.

Opponents of a worldview that are silly antithetical to The Economist one, but he's someone whose worldview the great confident consequence.

He helped propel Donald Trump the white house he is advising far right movements in Europe on both sides of the Atlantic he's not a fringe character.

He's a man of consequence.

That's why I invited him and that's why I think we need to have the discussion.

I'm going to be interviewing him and go to I hope challenge him and challenged his idea if I think the best way to expose bigotry and Prejudice is to have an open and rigorous debate.

That's what next week is about and that's why I think it's in Pisa in that goes.

What's your response for the new yorkers decision? I think reasonable people can reach different decisions for me.

It's very important that we do it.

I therefore you know I've decided that.

I invited him and I've decided to maintain that imitate.

I know I can see I can see why you wanna speak to The Economist but I think this is a point about level during has been there for your views on the New Yorker incredibly important.

There is a lot of people say the New Yorker sacrificed his journalistic integrity.

By doing this people have tweeted saying that it's lost its authorities a beacon of free speech and indeed enlightened values.

Do you agree with that people can make people people can reach them really not for me? It's important to stand by what I think The Economist should do and the New Yorker festival isn't a different kind of festival the this event the open future event is about rigorous debate about the future of liberalism.

That's why it's important to have someone there who is spouses the opposite of what we stand for and what you want to talk about the New Yorker ok? Can you see why commercial pressure and the Threat of mass cancellation subscriptions may Force the hand of David remnick the editor of The New Yorker he did what he did what he said it at face value his responding to concerns that he heard on social media insights from his staff at your again sounds really really I'm not being Wisley but I am driven by what I think is the right thing for The Economist to do and for us.

It was a

See something that's important fashionably believe in the Liberal values when you're down for and I'm going to stand to undo that free speech is really important.

Matthew we losing faith in free speech.

I can fully appreciate the argument that we need to not live in a self reflecting bubble ryona heroine ideas like Twitter my concern about Steve Banham I think I probably would put him on a platform but my set my concern was still be that when we live in a world largely in the west of proprietorial owned Media will it be newspapers and television that we do seem to be this this proprietorial Media does seem to have a innate right by us right wing bias and their see it does seem to be a disproportionate flood of alt-right neo right or quite frankly proto-fascist ideas percolating through from both sides of the Atlantic and I find that I worry so I don't want to see people no platformed, but it does seem.

Yeah, we hear the alt right view on so many issues and it's moment you got anybody from the left at put down their trotsky the Communist they're buried under often and Jeremy corbyn's.

What's a an Avalanche of fake news and one of the Architects for might say or what is one of the proponents of fake news around there.

Is is one Steve Bannon Sarah what damage if any is this done to the New Yorker brand with a new yorkers are one of the biggest brands in American media has it affected this week is that because you're goes back to your first point which is people have more opportunity than ever with all of the social media platforms to express an opinion and they do it a lot and as a result of that.

I think brands have become far more cautious to act to have an opinion to stand for something and as a result I think they're from an advertising perspective because obviously that's my background.

And I would argue many brands and their messages have become vanilla these days so I think any brand you know like the New Yorker or indeed Nike never seen the news today and that has the Beano boldness bravery to express an opinion despite the fact it know some people on social media will inevitably disagree with it and it is refreshing soda.

Zoe who became editor The Economist in in 2015 and it's an opinionated publication.

What was your picture? The interview interview? I wanted to be honest as a fantastic tradition and it has a serious.

It's it's amazing to be able to lead a publication that has found in 75 years.

Thought for values that we all that I and my colleagues they strongly believe in you know my main pitch was that I would reaffirm and do my best to continue that tradition and to lead it in anytime as you said web media business is changing very dramatically and part of what we're all grappling with is how not just journalistic Lee to cope with a world that is incredibly challenging.

Yeah, it wasn't apparent when I became editor quite how turbulent the last 3 years of being so that you know I certainly didn't pitch about how I would deal with Donald Trump since he wasn't on anybody's Horizon about point but what was clear is that we were in a changing Media commercial environment for media and so thinking about how you translate the Ethos of The Economist into a world of digital media into a world where it was only 5 years.

We've done essentially one thing which is produced a weekly print magazine and we know how to do that.

We did it and I like to think we do it wasn't.

Well at now in a world where things are changing rodomatic Lee it's not just websites and so thought it was social media which at the time that I became editor.

We have one person who worked on social media that we now have a big big social media tips on Snapchat and then we've moved into new media for us because the point is that in this century.

We need to work out how to get a voice across to our readers may have been different way exactly come back to what you're doing really apart Lisa Matthews from TV into radio in the second base on the on the editorial side ask you some pictures and editor.

There are those who in the past 4 years Donald Trump among them are English nationalist would say that people like you people like The Economist are on the wrong side of history.

You didn't see the financial crash coming a decade ago.

You didn't fully understand the sincere and decent concern of Native populations at big demographic upheaval.

You didn't necessarily see the brakes it happening all the election of trump wall decor been such a right to say.

The organisations like The Economist have to a certain extent lost touch with a huge number of voters on the wrong side of history and I say very strongly apparently.

No, they're not the traditional liberalism that we were founded on I still think is absolutely right way forward liberalism has kind of survived and indeed thrived over the last 200 or so, yes, because it has reinvented itself as the world changes and you're absolutely right that whether it is the financial crisis and not seen it coming whether it is not paying enough attention to the dislocations of globalisation absolutely there are many things that and I made a user's phrasing in quotes but the Liberal elite got wrong and liberalism and liberals need to think about that.

I need to be part of it need to reinvent liberalism next week.

Just done a little plug for 175th anniversary.

We've got a whole issue devoted to thinking about liberalism in the 21st century.

You're absolutely right that if we can statically standstill and have exactly the same policies and don't see more went wrong then then there is a big problem.

Love your smiley does the liberal Media froze liberal elite.

What does it exist I really that the 1st would call out the Liberal elite tend to be extremely money to people from the right wing prospective ready.

We Nigel Farage and a former City banker hanged himself extremely wealthy.

How are you? It's just it's it's a pejorative way of putting people down at of stifling argument of stifling debate that's coming for the Liberal elite.

Therefore it gets dismissed says a man who is a banker by profession who has explored all the benefits of say super well and they come around and say it's the Liberal Elite it's just that I hear you, but there is I think what I was getting at here.

I'm defending you but what I think you're getting at is that there is a sense and let's take this country is an example.

There is a sense that this country's economy is not working for every.

And the government's whether it's been sent to left or centre-right.

Government haven't got it and haven't worked out what we need to do as a country to go for in Sophie the idea that you need reforms.

You need to rethink what you need to go to rethink what capitalism needs to look like you need to be reformers that seems to me.

It's not liberal elite or conservative alien liberals.

You could argue that brexit is the biggest thing of financial challenges facing this country and that in part was delivered by people who went people in favour the European Union are lipids.

Wish it showing as getting my question is where voters failed have they referred by Jonas Matthew you've been in Jersey for a long time you started off in tableau papers.

You spend a lot of time TV you're not going to talk radio if you were someone who didn't live in a big metropolitan centre someone who had conservative Instincts when it came to love of country and didn't like massive demographic of it as your profession Matthew failed those people or point you to a little boat.

We had in June last year which had the

Highest turnout of any referendum ever and in which the Great British Public spoke and they decided to give two fingers to the perceived liberal elite and rotor side of the European Union if you want to look at our politicians failing at the Bridge pub in the British Public have spoken and the difficulty British politicians seem to have is actually enacting the will of the British people which is something.

I think it is a nonsense to say that that the British people have been I somehow disenfranchise to unempowered.

I think there's plenty of evidence to suggest politically this Millennium that it's the opposite actually the British voters perhaps through social media are empowered OK will do you know what they say perfect segue it sorted if we said it before and because I want to talk to you about something.

It's also been playing mass of the on social media this week and empowering of Voices it which is this story of Colin Kaepernick who's the NFL former NFL player who protested against the he went on one knee when the national anthem was being played in America this week.

Just isn't it the land of the free to act like a freelance Matthew Wright sarcasm.

I just just explain kind.

This is kind of related to the Steve banner.

Fury in this week's Nike or nikey.

I should say unveiled a new ad campaign featuring a Colin Kaepernick Japanese famous restarting the trend of kneeling during the national anthem at the start of games in protest at police brutality the ad with the poster says believe in something even if it means sacrificing everything that happened it is despised by many on the right in the US trump said yesterday that Nike is sending a nana quote a terrible message at the #justburnit started up or someone social media and people posted videos in the Self setting fire to their trainers and Nikes stock price fell Sarah what's your take you surprised that Nike has done this.

I think they're playing a longer-term game.

I think they're trying to attract a younger audience appeal to a young associations about advertising JUST EAT used as well, obviously.

How to make 1 cool sneakers is America's record in which not allowed to jump really high when you're playing basketball is there something at the core of this which is an Oral presentation in association with a sporting a superstar without on his best-selling nice kit with this guy with this campaign and Nike have never as a brand of never shied away from having an opinion in all of their campaigns have had a certain attitude.

They've never taken the easy route.

I think that this will not appeal to everybody I don't think it has to appeal to everybody I think they're saying it's ok to have an opinion.

We have an opinion to yes, we saw the share price for yesterday, but I think the markets were down yesterday anyway, so I'm not sure it was just the you know the campaign effect.

I think they've got something like I think I saw report that they had 43 million dollars a free publicity that far.

On done what they've done.

I think you're completely right that they think they believe in this Monday also recognises the way to sell shoes and I think Phil Knight the founder of Nike and he wants told I think of sports Illustrated that the culture of America was sport on the Nike should define the culture of Sport shooting out in the US on it's called a dick and they decide to help semi-automatic hunting rifles for some reason and their share price crash.

Don't let her have massive loss of the year on year end because I guess that's their market is selling guns to Hunters if you're selling trainers to young people have been butchered in their schools in the in the schools and colleges, then maybe gonna have a different attitude and link as you said to the panel discussion because the the way this is played out some people burn your cutting their Nike swoosh of their socks other other people saying this is a great thing to do shows the divisions the scale of division in America and the same thing is is epitomized by the controversy over acid Steve Bannon anyway.

Is the building to Echo Chambers and in the US its extraordinary how to fly who got burning stuff and everything Media in terms of your expertise and advising brand mean Matthew talk about hunting and shooting Levi Strauss announced yesterday that it will be donating to gun control groups in the US at which is another I think safe to say a divisive issue.

Why is this blurring of the line between advertising and activism activism sorry happening? I think that's where a lot of Brands are seeing a lot of a commercial success and effect these days is not just by saying things it's by doing things you know people don't know who to trust anymore.

It's back to the trust issue.

I don't know whether the messages they see on the side of bosses in newspapers online or true anymore.

I think brands are aware of that and I think brands are seeing.

Get in order to really land point of view a purpose and message they need to be seem to do something to actually act rather than just present a set of words for the consumer has used to be fun.

They used to be nice to have the old Hovis advert.

I'm not gonna do original yellow pages that used to be so they're 7lo warm as I was about what he was happy people selling cigars that will make you sex symbols and so yeah that the problem that the consumer has more power than ever they are avoiding advertising you know they are watching subscription channels not Advertiser funded channels, they are you flipping between devices they actively in a recording content that they're going back and watching it in their own time.

Fast forwarding through the odds that using ad blocking technologies, but I think that's great for people like me who work in our industry to raise our game because what we need to do is we need to produce content that make you laugh you cry and whatever it is that consumers actively seek out there then share amongst themselves and then that virtuous circle happens when advertisers get lots of free media from consumers doing all of this on their social media platforms a very different approach to the old-fashioned one of advertising or linear radio and I want to move on to talk about Radio now.

Cos Matthew is re-entering that world in a big way in actually radio something that Unites all three of you this week Rebekah Brooks the boss of News UK with a medal company at here which owns talk radio and Virgin assign Chris Evans from BBC Radio 2 and Matthew right here now considerably less money I share price.

And that meeting at looking at his hand exactly that suggest to me that he made from old fashioned radio which is that's a better.

Well.

I actually I'm a big fan of radio.

I think it's an undervalued medium by brands.

You know you forget that 90% of the UK population listen to radio and 63% of that younger really difficult we know what size 24 to 35 year old audience listen to radio every single day.

I think the media owners like Rebecca have invested heavily in tech in Brand and their Talent and that's really paying off so radio as a channel is seeing its biggest audience is ever it's biggest revenues ever and I think News UK particularly are showing their ambition in this space.

I think there's more exciting things to come as well, Matthew Matthew

Becky Brooks predatory directly know but I have been in talks with the talk radio for over a year the original proposal was that was going to be my TV show and then go off and do a radio show and I decided that was unwise as I wouldn't be able to deliver a high quality broadcasting content within expected By Me by Matthew you saying about continuous news Radio 2 show you saying that you think that and turned it down because it's too much work too hard 5 hours broadcasting a day.

I think you you you you would struggle anybody would struggle.

I think there's anything about radio.

I think News UK are late out of the traps, but they can see the Golden prize and I think the problem was that the reason for the growth of speech radio is that a lot to talk about on a lot of explaining to do and from listening to to LBC which one is flying at the moment for stereo Someone Like You

FM hearing James O'Brien day in day out tackle brexiteers that may not be your favour if you if you want to leave the European Union but he has persuaded listeners over a very long period of time of getting on pretty much persuading them and challenging arguments and it's fascinating to hear I think it's this so much misunderstanding.

There's so much lack of explanation from our political leaders that people are turning to Rhayader to share and exchange ideas implication of what you're saying is that is very very crowded market does lot of phone and shows in America shop.

Culture and personality driven radios been Hughes think that's coming over here.

How's your show going to be different until 16? I don't feel I'm going to be in that sort of cut and thrust of the newsmakers in the morning.

I think I'm very much going to be reflecting on how mainstream media and radio has dealt with issues of the day and then I also want to bring in a wiggly guest.

Occasions install Black really to take a fresh perspectives where possible on ongoing stories, so so labours anti-semitism row.

I mean it's presented.

I was just so badly by the mainstream Media that really I feel was duty-bound to take take issue with with some of the things to other mysteries were seeing represented Elsewhere and Sarah mentioned a River Murders big investment is it true to say that Rupert Murdoch went into Fleet Street you store kodi establishment and try to break it up yet.

He saw the same in TV weather BBC with Dominic the 1990 United Sky is this the third act in Rupert Murdoch's method of going insane yourself into saying I'm going to Beverley to break a new miss out my spacing between which is very expensive failure by the great man but I would suggest yes, I'll say again.

I think later the tracks.

I think it's pretty obvious from the growth of LBC over the last 10 years that that the radio is it is an interesting market for him to hear and then he talked about what you're trying to zanellato beyond the editorial be on the stories is multi-platform.

How much money does it cost?

Make-up radio how big is that in Tims your future growth growth area but commercially but particularly in terms of the reach in terms of introducing people to what The Economist is a back we now have a roster of 5 podcasts a week and a cowboy use of the BBC runs economist radio for me with 6 million people download the month so it's it's it's a reasonable and growing audience and it's I think it's one that suits us very well the kind of discussion that The Economist does imprint is the kind of disgusting that you can have very well on podcast we also have it is worth saying it's not exactly radio but the audio version of The Economist is growing very fast people I think in this day and age you're actually right Sarah radio listening to be black Matthew having his kind of conversation works in the 21st Century some ways a bit ironic actually and so did the growth of podcasts you started she grows in Pokémon I should say the media shows available as a podcast in a certain side light.

Save itself particularly the fact that young people are consuming them in such vast numbers is podcasting a bubble.

I don't think it is a thing audio is really interesting.

I mean look at look at you know Alexa and Google Home voice and my voice is really interesting therefore.

It is no surprise.

I think the podcast and radio is a platform are here to stay and they are I I think the good long-term bats future were children.

Just have enormous thumbs and fingers some big eyes and that actually mute and never speak to each other just texting you can understand why listening to something or using a thumb and finger to do some digitally is this multitasking vision of the 20% Right Stuff which I will try to drop The Wright Stuff which I work for 2 years.

Would you say to your radio show on TV what can you what is your often described? As what can you do on radio radio that you couldn't do on TV

It's the is the regulation and it is the thing that each item much freer environment in radio and television I think television Ofcom if it if you looked at through some of the transgender around involving Paris Lees send Anne Hegerty at that the conclusion of that right.

There was no regard given.

What server to the fact that Anne Hegerty is autistic and I had a real problem with that the two sides weren't fairly represented well on radio.

We will be addressing both sides only briefly.

I think that radio is this is a great show me I'm glad you're doing very well.

I'm glad you're growing up centre as wasn't do you want to know know know what 10 seconds.

This is this this kind of love nice.

This is going to win at 10.

Thank you very much for listening and watching a tender legal out of your show Sarah thank you so much for coming in please in case you don't get the message earlier remember this show is a podcast just look online for the Mitchell podcast and click on subscribe with accent on next week.

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