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Global perspectives on the news business…

BBC sounds music radio podcast the media show from BBC Radio 4 this week, we're in Edinburgh at the news exchange conference is an annual opportunity for journeys from all over the world to come together and to over the big issues affecting their industry our industry.

We managed to persuade three of them to join us in our makeshift studio.

Let me introduce you to them now that I it is a foreign correspondent for CBC the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation know that you recorded all over the world for CBBC particular Middle East in Beirut and how does explaining brexit to Canadians compared in terms of toughness, but it's a lot safer than then going to some of these places, but it's a difficult concept to a backstop is a great place to start.

How do you explain that if you if you don't know the ins and outs of the northern I

And issue and and peace agreement.

How can you possibly spend the backstop, so try and make it interesting engaging to for readers is there from listeners and viewers.

It's really really hard to do is one of the challenges of hazel.

It's a negotiation solo the stories that have been emerging as a last year.

I Basie one side of any goshi Asian breathing out a line because they want to negotiate in public.

That's part of it that I should tell you because it's a negotiation our audiences are actually really interested.

I think they see it as a drama that kind of unfolding any no separation and we have this issue and Canada of course we had referendum what part of Canada Quebec in particular wanted separates of that itself makes it fundamentally interesting story for Canadian Dollars great.

So you think you'll be talking to you.

Feel Chetwynd is global editor-in-chief of afp.

The world's oldest news agency Hatfield save me please from embarrassing myself.

What does a f e stand for and can you tell us how to pronounce it? It's stencil.

UWE from Paris but your career as a journey began in regional papers in Britain I didn't do that the Portsmouth Evening News which actors challenges ever worked very much she is alive and kicking probably not tell me when we were 250000 a circulation and so I think it's slightly down the stairs.

What did you learn at the Portsmouth Evening News that is still relevant to your very grand and I think that.

I think I'm happy to take away with that, in the wrong place was likely to have an editor with his eyeballs me out as matted and something of taking her to see if Adam ondra Petty is it mine has had a long career in TV and is the host of a brand new Talk Show on the news channel en-ca have your mum is called madam speaker that you're right it.

In explaining and by the way thanks for having me Amy Lees two I like so amazing and then you have me and of course you know.

Maybe we can all Google you these days now that your own a minute radio show me to do what you do, but the great thing about that is that you have two feet on the ground every morning people are regulating your own perception because we living echo chamber sometimes and selling doing that when I realised what is the people often felt like their own perspectives were being undermined or they were being kind of airbrushed out of major conversation with the narrative everyday so madam speaker is about getting an antagonist and protagonist together.

You know when needs two people box it out some Wisdom peps will fall to the ground and that's what people can really to over masticate and then can it feel I think about how they feel about it and then in the same format you have a jewellery like from al community uncle who makes the brave down the road.

You know the truck driver the Butcher the baker the candlestick make a taxi in and they would say whether they thought this was nonsense whether they thought it was viable and I think in.

Exchange we kind of them can truly see where we are right now.

There are executives across the world to a thinking we should produces format in our country that makes Eminem Eminem says right.

Let's start with what will be a big talking point at the news exchange conference today.

This is the news yesterday that CNN is now suing President Trump after their white house correspondent Jim Acosta had some of his press credentials revoked this all follows that is strawberry press conference last week will trump and Acosta basically had a stand-up CNN claims their first and Fifth Amendment rights fifth member being right now the young right to due process had been violated and what you make of the idea the principle of CNN suing the president what we know it's virtually unprecedented there has been one other case in 1977.

I think it was in which someone challenged their credentials been taken away and in fact.

They were restored after cortisone that it's quite unprecedented isn't this isn't something happens every day but

It's far as I'm concerned.

It is not surprising that we come here and I have to say one of the most extraordinary things as far as I'm concerned about the story is that Jim Acosta himself after his credentials were suspended said that I do think that they're trying to shut us down inside the White House that they're trying to actually do that and the fact that that is the background to the story is what makes a compelling and does not surprise me that someone is trying to challenge that because that touches every journalist who was in that context.

What are the things from a British perspective often seems to distinguish journalism from your side of the Atlantic from Canada or America is it seems has a greater willingness in Canada America for Jenna's not to become the story does it make you uncomfortable the extent to which Jim Acosta himself his personality this guy with a particular voice a particular face particular gender some would argue that has become the story that makes feel queasy.

Attention there and there's no doubt because you're right.

I mean it certainly processor CBC it is actually an effort.

Just to make sure that we are not part of the story on the other hand it's understandable how this came about I should say the history of notice that scene in itself and other members of the point of White House press corps have made a conscious decision not amplify the story behind this the suit because they're cognizant that anal making use of the story especially in this case we actually polarized people even further and make people less sympathetic to your it my news report on sap in politics 4 years interview various presents.

Did you ever have a stand-up Lauda press conference, but I think the contact does everything I mean I remember asking one of our former president of Albania? Kind of trojan horse that sells into the Union buildings because it was a bit in a context where there was very little to the public information around a key issue for example the Fate of our national police commissioner the time they went in without photographer with a camera personalitate following me and then and also president equation.

He was gracious who's angel.

If so, and I got oxygen out of the Union buildings and it was another incident with the other president Jacob Zuma around his cabinet appointments and him really throwing avail of Silence around why he'd made set an appointment or release some ministers like the finance minister at that particular time and so you know you have to it is very situational anything very tricky thing because you you can't you can't do I stop all the time because in that have become senile journalism of a different kind, but where it is necessary and where this impact value.

You make the decision to do so in the public interest food.

Got a corresponding the White House to eat after we can't divulge private conversations if you like.

We can you give us a sense of the conversation you've had with your white house chief correspondent about how he and FP and you should respond to what happened touches on the much wider issue of how we cover trump and in particular how the US Media covers trump because there is still an element of it being a large entertainment.

Writing story is actually very hard life and pushing very hard to be in the states for any period of time because it's so focused around trump and evening news of the cable using everything to the exclusion of everything else in some of that is also linked up with with with ratings and then we know very well it certainly you doing quite well out of out of the story was the best thing that happened to see them for a long time to be a little bit of having to sit in that context.

I'm one of the irony is actually is in some ways with the trump white house.

There is more access than with the Obama White House Obama White House was really close that Trump is everything that Trump is we can see him in the in in the Press competition and the manner in which he deals with the media, but he has press conferences and someone who can simply open the doors to his two to the one Housing than that you know the correspondence going on.

There's a gaggle only speaking and so on so it's quite a nuanced discussion against that of course you have this constant bashing of the media fake news media than the enemies.

People line which is supports extremely disturbing but the overall picture is much more nuanced than thinking you know there's no access in the end.

You're being pushed out all the time as an editor in chief.

Is it useful for a genus of organisation to have one person White House correspondent become such an outside figure within what is Britain called the lobby to get better this issue of the entertainment store around Trumbull joke a lot of that when we follow the US elections.

I think probably when we look at some of the less good reporting on US election that when people don't really see Trumps Rise properly I think because it was being treated too much as a sort of entertainment story and I think that plays a little bit of that.

I would certainly be uncomfortable with having having a someone with with that profile, but I appreciate CNN as it is a different Brandon it a different reality demo.

A journalistic narrative, who is who they are influenced by who's issues make it into the headline when you talk about those kinds of binaries Fulham about and South African seems like everything about the US is Trump related in some way does this the US not have other stories to tell about brexit in this country by the way, I'm starting this morning as well.

I'm in and annoy you get this tutorial every single decker when you're driving in the UK breaks.

It's a bit understandably so but the reality is and that's where the disaffection between people amongst people begins to SE18 who who's the ginger vs.

Who who is setting the agenda where our stories and that so when you have people or dispensing Kool-Aid that promotes polarity in the world, but the minorities in a wheel feal represented they latch onto that and by the way this all of this seeps into the Canadian market is well and in fact it you know I was at an outreach event in my hometown in Canada in Winnipeg will we need to poo come from and I know we have this great discussion about global Citizenship and what it means in Italy

Wedding shoes and I'm Google questions the very first question that I got was that every guy was how do we convince the media to stop covering trump? So this is a question that comes up from audiences over and over and also from commentators.

Do people who write about journalism.

I said what else has happened the media in the last week.

Look at the UN censoring Facebook for allowing hate speech to be disseminated about Myanmar in Myanmar and other places that sell there so many other issues to tackle some of those we had that discussion everyday.

How do you manage to sort of information by Jose comes from Donald Trump be subtle the president United States see you constantly you can have a restaurant where you can have 20 things of immense significance from any normal present use a stick using China of interfering in the midterm elections and reading them which was just a small detail from one press conference that then just disappeared into the ether it extremely challenging everyday to know what to give.

What not to give how.

You're falling into in inches of the communication trap perhaps of the why has it is.

It takes extreme hard because at the end of the day you still come back then.

He's the president United States CNN have an amplified the story huge amount that the child keep us a lid on it some people would argue that suing the white house is essentially a publicity stunt itself by CNN what do you make that rather cynical take me to 17 is there a good command of us to try and resolve the situation is it important to say that I mean without passing judgement on the approach.

I think as a journalist.

I appreciate that something is being done to challenge this one side of narrative that the media are the white house press corps are the enemies of people I think it's time whatever the approaches.

We can argue about that that that that is Challenge by Media what do you know?

Question, please all three of you involved with the idea of international journalism and foreign reporting and one of the responses to Jim Acosta has been that he was saying he's having a really hard time if you really want to know how people having hard time and jainism.

Look at Hardy is being foreign correspondent today.

I feel it's worth saying that in April you lost your teeth photography in a cardboard shoe photography in that bombing that killed 25 people including a journalist and do you think the experience of joiners in warzones rather put such complaints about people I came across it in perspective to create a culture of impunity around journalism and once you start to bandy phrases such as Enemy of the people and someone there isn't there is a direct link that flows across the world and I think how people across the world would feel that sense of insecurity that comes in the general discussion around what journalists are and the lack of protection that they increasingly.

All around the world so I think the whole political situation populist movement the whole discussion we having all around the world really plays into the issues around during the Somme said he just of the degree of you know if HMRC killed in the bombing in Kabul how quickly are the relevant leaders around the world going to say something about it and going to say that it's unacceptable and I'm going to follow.

This is Caffyns up sometimes I can just be a verbal thing but it sometimes the silence that is actually more concerning than than anything else interested in how you deal with that so unspeakably cream news just on a practical level.

How did your journalism in Kabul have to change in light of that we have changed since then we've also lost one of my drivers in a suicide bombing in Kabul and chief correspondent cobbles killed 3 years ago in the attack inside the Serena hotel to let's 3 key members of staff traits of people think isn't it then respond.

To send people in their your the editor-in-chief and I've been in a situation in the world are newspapers.

You know people dying often people as you said drivers photographers.

You don't always get the same attention.

How can you carry on setting people in the end when you know that people died on the only is the three people were killed the rule from there, so I think that's why we have to keep sending people there to to show that so we're committed to that story and end of the world, but it but it's extremely complex and we have had to adapt one of the things that an agency always do there's a bomb our job is to go there film take pictures interview people and leave we don't do that anymore.

We think well, you know a bomb where to find a way different ways to tell the story we will go to hospital as we will do everything will not go to the scene.

We are at the moment.

We are we are we are being lights in our coverage said it does work if you can we had election day.

Just recently we are always in Kabul of the time just before Henry

What balance station could you go to and film and be relatively safe for 5 minutes? I think we found one in the end, but the only that really affects absolutely everything you doing the way you can the story you said about to go in the context of at trumpets important or there is a push back against these attacks against this idea that Genesis enemies of the people.

What's the appropriate journalistic responsive human-level to the murder of Jamal khashoggi always pursuing the truth and pursuing facts and presenting things that will ultimately lead to to finding justice in any case and so of course were going to be emotionally affected because he is a journalist who wrote for the Washington Post he's one of us when he was working at the embassy in London but I didn't know very well at all, but the point is that she was.

The rider and he was someone who is interested as I save of truth and we need to provide information contact with said he really don't see anywhere else in so but yes, I think the emotion has to be taken out of it.

We have to treat you like every other story and go after it with the same zealousness and and passion as we do it any other story your mum is hard there is no taking the emotion out of it when during the other one of their own has been seems chopped up two pieces.

You know it's hard to remain impartial because you don't do the substitution thing you imagine you Nanda similar circumstances whether you can be placed in a similar situation of face the same place.

So you know Potter part of being the Vanguard is always as you say doesn't matter what the story is about.

It's just end up with the principal at every given opportunity the interesting thing about trump increase your efficiency and other stories.

Is it again? What it means for what makes a story where you live and where you are South Africans with a interested in his fate and Ruby insta particularly in our global.

Six connect an intersection the story and where do you know political-economic allegiances lie with condemnation would be withheld or dispense depending on what those lines as well like for us.

It was ok.

That's better story.

That's terrible and happened, but what about the victims of unit in a mental health system in South Africa with country no over 100 people 100 people died.

That's a story that would resonate for the M5 deeper on any given day.

Do you know or the lack of anything it into a lot of people are saying at the moment? Why are some westernization bleeding with pictures of wildfires in California awful though.

They are there in terms of the actual number of casualties.

Everything's going on another part of the world and I know feel you must grapple with it everyday wear many many more people are suffering or dying but you are meant could this mean I mean listen to the radio this morning, but yeah minutes is it sung conscionable just it is interesting mentioned therein that I just want to stick with a middle east for a moment.

Isn't there a danger that when you have events like this, but these bombings in Cardboard when you have.

Is controlled northern Syria that what we're seeing more and more are these information black holes his whole regions of the world which are completely unreported and doesn't that open up opportunities for propagandists whether they be cyber Warriors from terrorist organisations or state actors.

Let's be clear of the opportunity for propaganda.

As always there were there or not and it's just a matter of whether we can get out of the of the opposite but absolutely and it's the greatest frustration as familias as a journalist who likes to be on the ground not being able to go to smileys face is Yemen is a difficult place in there some incredibly brave journalist with made the weather what you want to go to dangerous places.

I don't want to go to dangerous places.

I hate dangerous places, but I really think it's important to cover stories that matter and Yemen matters beyond the fact that so many people are dying their and starving and died of cholera in the in 2018 but also because Western arms are involved in in that conflict so therefore I always argue that that is a Canadian story it's

American story, it's a British story a human story precisely out your actual business makes money by selling reporting to broadcasters and newspapers in an age where anyone with a phone in a pocket fancy themselves as a bit of a hack you can gather video news events.

What's the what's the point of afp? What did he do that some with the phone? Just can't well? It's interesting this discussion is sort of firm evidence load quite considerably less for 5 years are moments of yeah.

You're on a business Sarah yes in use from Twitter iPhone suddenly.

It seems that you're not having some verified proper journalistic.

Lee reported information is more essential than ever because there is so much misinformation disinformation and propaganda weaponized by social media the national fact we have never needed boots on the ground traditional value journalism modernise of course with all the technology that we can use.

To to to to fight Serbia the situation we find ourselves now so for me and I sent pugilistic we have to make a paper purely analytically this should be a Renaissance for the bus because people are lost in a world of of a real information disinformation address for the P word pay for the n-word money that is 5 in miles from you and what can we learn from South Africa are there exams in South Africa of people cracking this perennial problem with how you make journalism pay.

I'll be will be I don't know enough about this aftermarket.

Is that close to cracking the problem of funding journalism just over 2000 jobs and very crucial time museums and got to be Lena there going to be more responsive and more effective.

So it is not only a problem for us, but everywhere else everywhere else in the world is the week 11 Cal

Banana how you guys the pioneers in this field still trying to sort it out, but I think I mean what happened.

Is that a lot of pressure has phone onto the journalist themselves and what and where they know it used to be that you do want tvstory a day for us at the cleaning Broadcasting Corporation where to do one TV 1 Radio 1 online and get on Snapchat and text pictures while you're at it in Sweden during.

It's true.

I think so what we're trying to focus on at least the CBC is trying to whatever we do is trying to do it well and making sure you said he'll to to to counter The Propaganda in the fake news us out there and actually be a source that is trusted so that when there is an issue people come to us and they know what they get from US is reliable and feel brutally Road lessons from France was in front of the state does have a more active role in funding predict the newspapers that we can about 35% of our revenue from the French government which allows us to have a beer in Kabul to be around Baghdad with me know that there for the news goes down.

We don't move we we keep it there.

We keep on network with that.

We have people in Yemen we still have a beer in Damascus and someone so for us.

That's been absolutely essential.

I think you look around the different models of journalism working at this point in time out of it is with the BBC model of money coming from some of this state actor from a sugar daddy like Jeff bezos from from from the readers of the Guardian for example a minir will be really looking at different models allow people to do quality because they knew she open market is really not likely to deliver less of an issue principal.

That's a very lovely here in Edinburgh today and this is what now often known by the phrase no platforming at this conference main headlines even before it started the First Minister of Scotland Nicola Sturgeon was due to speak here but pulled out when it was announced that one of the speakers is Steve Bannon had president Trumps former chief advisor toasties Jessica something she said Nicola Sturgeon said she would not be part of any event that in her words are quote risks legitimising far-right racist views.

You might do you have any such concerns interview doesn't me? You know you have to have to look at yourself before meeting my response was was probably two sentences, and it was like room full of Genesis 500 journalist and not a drop of Kool-Aid insight here's the thing may be burning should be afraid of being on this platform right.

We've got the world's best journalist in a room who will take a truth detector or a lie detector whatever the case may be to this conversation which I think again like I said in the beginning.

We knew people argue or debate in a style that is none hysterical in a style that is methodical and and and useful I think that's when the true nature of things becomes apparent and and that is a conversation we can benefit from just bring us full circle present trouble is supporters of popularized the idea that the so-called mainstream Media is inherently biased even the phrase mainstream Media DNS and what?

Situation like from mainstream journeys like you as I forgot I used to do are you not at all of his an enemy of the people but I think it is a caution people are allocated more than my things then we think and imagine and they apply reasoning logical server with 10 years ago you said x and you supported at the rise of this particular president in years later.

You change a tune something's wrong with all your incorrectly reported on that and and and people are lot more engaged and answer that to me is kind of like the shepherding the shepherding petite power of just Ordinary People South Africans in my case.

We can you keep you on the path.

Otherwise you know your name is everything and that's what you lose through has social media changed our attitudes to free speech.

I mean is that a no platform you can go viral very quickly if someone takes the principal standard Nicola Sturgeon for instance it can certainly Ghana a tremendous following some people think that we're in Urdu

Climate of intellectual intolerance have to realise that we no longer control the publication of information so social media has created that so we can either get in there and be part of the Debate and try to frame it and contribute or you can stand outside of it and say we're not going to talk to these people know if you look at all the service on trust in media like the digital reuters digital news report for this year with every single one say no one has the trust in the MSM and you turn my mother needs them so you just cannot stand outside of these debates and think you're going to win back in the audience.

You have to get enough yet again.

I know there's a big banner out with his conference quoting George Orwell it says if Liberty means anything at all.

It means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear him.

It's also statue of all well with former BBC employee outside the BBC and that quote is on the wall.

Can you say honestly the majority of your view is a majority of your audience really subscribe.

That idea if you think they really believe that a very good question, I'd love to ask Dad and do a survey.

I think most people believe in the in the fundamental right of everybody to express themselves and I you know people ask me that the inverse of and say why do you go to places like North Korea or to Iran I say it's always better to see the not as he always better here than that to hear and I really hope her audiences feel the same as a lovely thank you very very much indeed for your time.

I really do appreciate when you got lots on my thanks to know that I had CBBC phone correspond.

Feel Chetwynd global editor-in-chief of Jean from process and en-ca is Iman rappetti to subscribe to our podcast by the BBC Sounds app this week, there will be a bonus edition of The Show featuring a debate in front of an audience.

That's taking place at the news exchange conference and thanks to you for listening.

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