Read this: The licence fee for over-75s

BBC sounds music Radio podcasts hello fed up with hearing about brexit then, this is the program for you for this week at least that be word won't be heard on feedback, but you are likely to hear another boring.

I was just bored with the binary narrative about Muslim women either.

We need to save them or they need to be saved from hers and she always seem to be talking about because it always her cos I'll be talking to say a divorcee about her programme how to be a Muslim woman and the grenfell Tower enquiry for everyday.

It's it's the BBC mixer podcast is it worth it the editor has no doubt incredibly we heard for the first time from the chief executive of the tenant management organisation which ran and manage granddaughter.

He's done.

No interviews we haven't heard from this man and as we near Midwinter will hear what's on your radio in the wee small hours.

When I've had periods of insomnia and get up in the night and sitting my study with a magazine and I put through the night on but first how should TV licence fees for the over 75's be paid for at the moment.

They're financed by the government but that said to end in 2020 and it's up to the BBC to decide what happens next should the BBC foot the bill and if so how the corporation has launched a consultation to help it decide James Purnell is the BBC's director of radio and education as you listen to all know at the moment if a household has a person ever 75-in it.

They get free tv.

Licence.

That's been the case since 2000 and ever since then the government has reimbursed BBC4 that sent hundreds of millions of pounds of come from the Department of Work and Pensions to the BBC that is coming to an end the governed decided to the stop that from June 2020, but has passed their decision.

They gave us the

How to decide what comes afterwards that could be regarded by many people's hospital pass the government doesn't want the problems of having to say either well if you're over 75 have to pay for yourself or any other compromised a rather you take the flag and this is something which will cost you initially what a fifth of your budget what we have decided what the cost is that's what we can sell thing on so that would be the course if we decided to maintain the current concession set everybody else nt5 gets a free tv.

Licence of fifths of your purchase will be taken away from making program stereo to BBC does and simply devoted to enabling over 75 to have free licence and he wouldn't stop put it that figure because where's the age changing people getting older more people getting older and you could have got 10 years time up to a quarter of the BBC's income is not spent on programs yet, so you're right.

It would like to a billion pounds and that's exactly why we set out a range of choices.

So that's one option.

We can abolish it.

So the cost of that point would be minimal the be about 70 million pounds.

Always said that there are some options in between where we can reform the concession so the three options that we set out one is you could raise the entitlement age 280 you can for example discount.

It's instead of being free licence for your behalf price dyson.co.uk means test that you could use the government pension credit and say anybody over 75 will get a free TV licence if they had pension credit so you're saying this was done in the context of a licence fee in charge renewal deals with record for the BBC but the government decided they were no longer going to subsidize the BBC for this game.

I say we then have all had the decision do we just accept that or do we say we're going to have control over that and be able to wear the impact on services with fairness to licensee pears and Pensions in 2010 the person said very clearly to the chance of the same Chancellor George Osborne if you do that.

I will resign because what you're asking is the BBC to become an arm almost of welfare policy.

You choose not to do that.

I wasn't in 2010 at the history of that he was irritated by personally he got the phone call on the train back to Oxford and they had that discussion the weekend is the point is you're dealing with the consequences and you're putting forward these options.

It was a good deal if the deal which you know we've set out in the party compare it to the 2010 Dale actually financially is the deal which is arguably more attractive one in 2010 even when you include order this actor same as a good deal.

It was important for the BBC to get that longevity of the truck as I understand it is a present arrangement ends in 2020 and then if if if you decide that you've got to take the burden on yourself if you like entirely and continue the present arrangement he will have to be very significant cuts in output aren't you at the consultation document says if we do go down the option that money will have to come out of services and that would be quite significant and the border said about something at this stage that would be quite difficult for the BBC's mission in the sauces that

That's what's important about the consultation.

That's why people need to give their views.

That's at one end at the other end.

There's going back to what happened before 2000 where everybody paid that would clearly have a much more impact on on services and you don't have a lot of opposition because Age UK her poses any form of charge as Would others.

Yes, that's why there's a significant number of people who are over 75 in in poverty and that's one of the criteria that we will look at very carefully we want something was just say to pensioners set or licensee pears and enables the BBC to successfully deliver its mission, so that's what the consultation is all about so you're looking at the possibility of raising the age at which one is a tattoo free licence 277 baby 280 at your raising the possibility that means test.

Do you know preferred option we don't generally we don't have a preferred option in any case.

It's vital as part of the consultation for us to do that with an open mind and that's exactly what we do and how long will this consultation take place if people really want to get involved at least that's really want to get involved.

How do they do that?

So, it's all on our website or you can call up the BBC people can do it on paper if they want to we recognise the people in this say anything particular.

You don't want to do it on the on the internet will be publicising it on Airways III trials went out last night for example.

So been done in braille with it is a wide range of methods presented as consultation document and then a set of questions and we'd really encourage anybody is interested to give us their view the background to this is that you're facing quite significant cuts at a time as you've made clear elsewhere when other broadcasters in the field of Netflix whatever have massive budgets so the BBC to a degree is being cut back at precise of the time that the remote competitors with more money without the overall change to BBC faces and you know where think we we tried to send the last chance review that actually the real question was about Amazon Facebook and Google I think we are now starting to see that happening.

They have got huge resources going in and that's transforming often for the better there I mean.

Yeah, but it does Channing some of the things that we would love to bad the media in the UK in Public Service Broadcasting in particular.

Have you ever thought that it's time now to look at the prospect of a radio licence so we looked not quite as a radio licence but we looked at her sort of top-up licence in the charter of you.

And we were against that for two reasons one is it's quite hard to make crack working practice so in practice either you put in the programs of people like least and it doesn't raise any money or you take out EastEnders in The Archers natural history and you effectively created a subscription broadcast that said we write attracted to it overall for the the BBC I think my concern better radio licence will be the same you start to create two tiers of licence fee payers in your what's wonderful about the BBC's can someone listen to radio who doesn't know about a particular topic and they introduced to it like Dennis Potter would have said he was and that changes their life and I don't want that to be something which is only for one classes listener.

You can pay more not for the other my thanks to James Purnell the BBC's director of radio and education and next week in the second part of our interview.

I've asked him whether the corporation is obsessed with chasing young audiences at the expense of the old now next week.

Sees the 100 episode of the BBC grenfell Tower enquiry podcast the enquiry is examining the circumstances leading up to and surrounding the fire at grenfell Tower on the 14th of June last year and for every day that the enquiry sits the podcast team reports analyses and explains the evidence heard despite having left the pm programme Eddie Mair continues as the podcast presenter some of you have stayed loyal to day in day out.

Hello you listening to the grenfell Tower enquiry podcast I'm Eddie Meyer I swear to god.

I am very angry and I live in south-west, London

The grenfell podcast allows the people who was there to give their account of what happened without any journalist of analysts laying on top of it there own commentary and nothing but the truth news and analysis programs generally feed you the options of what two things to Granville podcast is the opposite of that it has.

Think for myself and made the whole thing more immediate with a series of exchanges between Richard Millett and Andrew Laughlin about this but it seemed to leave both sides slightly baffled and Lila from sitting as a listening from outside of the UK It's often hard to grasp the full context of a new story in a new Cycle that move son so quickly, it's immensely valuable to have reporting that lingers terrified about the prospect of being compelled to give oral evidence to this enquiry and Jennifer Johnston and I love to Southside of Glasgow I've listened to every episode and ice.

The reporters are doing an incredible job never a lot of police survivors and residents today's evidence was frustrating because at the moment in phase I have never seen the grenfell Tower listening to the podcast for me.

Just as a member of the public has become a very small active witness to the Stroud today just the property is the editor of The podcast each day brings different evidence different stories different angles different types of what happened on the night of grenfell because what this phase is enquiries about so where you where did the beginning that it would all be a little repetitive.

It was a concern in the back of my mind that we would be day in day out hearing the same thing but what's fascinating is so we had lots of firefighters talking about you know they rescued a person on the 14th floor.

They rescued zombie on the 22nd floor, then two months later.

We hear from that person.

They rescued and we can sleep in the two stories together almost and see you get a much Fuller picture of what happened and winner of the Dead email was leaving the BBC was there.

What is YouTube leaving This podcast? What are we going to do? It wasn't concerned for long because it was it was something he started before he left the BBC so in a sense.

It was the son of a legacy project and it was only joking his bosses LBC agreed to let him carry on doing it.

So we have I got any adventures with podcast as you don't have to fit into a fixed slot now, so what's the optimum? And how did you decide on the average length? We're not that prescriptive about the average my ideal length is something between 20 to 30 minutes.

I think but somedays we have evidence that is so compelling that was an episode of think we ran on in October in fact.

It was was the leak out and acquire Richard Millett reading out from a witness statement from a man who was on the phone to his sister and his mother who were trapped on the 23rd floor anything what does JUST EAT take you seeing a witness statement that she was one of those memorable bit of the inquiry because it was the description of this Final phone call between a brother and his sister as they

Died on the 23rd for this is deeply distressing it should be distressing but other times when you think I can't broadcast that yeah, the podcast format does allow you a much greater latitude in terms of what you can broadcast there are things that you wouldn't put on p.m.

At 5 on Radio 4 that you might put on a podcast will be you might be a warning on the podcast but equally got to realise that the audience for podcast they go to it that finding a medical research a note of distressing subject.

They're not going to be caught unawares and isn't that just give you that little extra to be even so there are moments when you think no absolute and they've been members like I'm in particular one of things.

I'm conscious of is that each witness who comes along to get along written statement that they gave as well and often there a details in that written statement that you would never ever broadcast with knob sometimes in the newspapers or some of the news agencies, but there seems that we wouldn't necessarily going to know do you know how popular is podcast is we don't have an exact number because there's

Mo salah accepted UK metric measuring podcast all I would say is it's found an audience and I've never worked on a program and I booked on lots of BBC programmes where you seem to have its own University high audience appreciation for how long are you going to have that commitment as I understand it this phase of the enquiry is thought to be about to end in December it's alright.

Yes, I suppose one is essentially about what happened face to is wide, but it is up to you you do it when it's not up to me.

Nobody was up to you you do it well.

I'm incredibly committed to the inquiry into this podcast if you took the evidence last week so incredibly busy NewsDay you know Beretta squashed everything incredibly hard for the first time from the chief executive of the tenant management organisation which ran and manage granddaughter.

He's done no interviews he's on the awkward doorstep with Panorama in song we hadn't heard from this man.

Is there anywhere on the BBC you could now go and find a 10-15 minute report that tells you what he said at the enquiry and I don't think they was on that day at all.

So was I feel unique opportunity and I think in that sense.

There is a gap in the market for sunny on this is Granville unique in this way this combination of an extraordinary human Tara with real issues about architecture but about political decision-making and son to think this is a unique event which Justified to sort of podcast or do you think your experience now says to say for example if we don't bloody send you all the forgetting Northern Ireland actually know this could apply where it really is important that there should be a Daily Podcast you can easily applied to other news events.

You just need to put on in a sense of supplying two of the same initial values you would to any story and I think the story Grandpa's extraordinary.

How many small big wheelchairs in copan it by saying you know the fundamental question.

How did this happen in London in the 21st Century I think it's a story that crosses so many different fault lines dividing the country in the sense that it is unique as a story but that doesn't mean other stories won't come along where you could apply something similar Jasper Corbett the editor of The grenfell Tower enquiry podcast and please keep your thoughts coming about other podcasts or programs who played recently on BBC Radio you can email feedback and bbc.co.uk tweeters at BBC R4 feedback, you can leave a phone message on 0333 444 5004 standard landline charges apply, but it could cost more on some mobile networks or you can write to feedback PO Box 67234 London se1p 4ax Orbis details are on our website Baroness Warsi is a woman of first she was the first.

Muslim woman to be selected to stand for parliament by the Conservative Party the first Muslim woman to sit in the cabinet and in 2007 she became the youngest member of the House of Lords but she remains frustrated by what she calls boring and dangerous stereotypes of Muslim women when they do get to speak she says it's all too often only when they fit in with lazy ideas or established narratives.

It's something she sought to address with her recent Radio 4 programme and its associated podcast how to be a Muslim woman.

I'm interested in how Muslim women define themselves, how they feel defined by others and the difference between the flight follower terrier type but also to be able to put their own voices and what it actually means to be a Muslim woman without someone saying well.

This is how you should be.

Ready, what do I say about myself because there's an idea that there is a real me Michael Alan from Liverpool can I come and the BBC and side of RC for an insightful and vitally important piece of programming Baroness pharmacies focus on the human side not only highlight of the Talents on in men's capabilities of Muslim women indeed of all women but also deconstructed the view that these women are the exception in Muslim Society rather than the normal if interested in the amazing women had interviewed and instead wanted to talk polygamy forced marriages grooming Veena Malik from London I was interested in listening to the programme but just from the introduction.

I suddenly felt very difficult and very disappointed the main thing that stood out to me was the dismissal of polygamy and because polygamy and mind all about rights of MS in women on Sudocrem Watford appreciated Julie siddiqi standing up for minorities in Islam such as LGBT ESO trophies on the phone.

Society and homophobia within our own community when it comes to LGBT stuff we are one of the worst offenders that if you like and I just my name is Mr Haroon Iqbal I am a Muslim woman it made a pleasant change to listen to a program that was about Muslims and had absolutely nothing to do with issues around terrorism or violent extremism House of Lords on Thursday and she told me how it came about we settle down in the corner of one of the canteen swear.

It was relatively quiet.

I think discussion Radio 4 about various programs.

They weren't interested in making and that's really interesting but I'd like to make I was just bored with the binary narrative about Muslim women either we need to save them.

They need to be saved from us and we always seem to be talking about because it always burkas which is why I wanted to make this program is very rare for a stay here unit authentic normal voices from British Muslim Communities women saying things and Aaron was talking about the things they want to talk about women more accurately educated Muslim career woman.

Yeah, I don't know what the educational qualifications of these women are I don't know whether they are career women actually I picked them out because I had come across them in certain aspects of my life and heard about them heard of the met them and it was just one aspect of their identity.

I was aware of and it was only when I started talking to them in exploring that I got to know more about their lives in Britain who has more traditional role and they made for creating another sort of stereotype the hope program your idea of your programs to break stereotypes of stereotype.

Career woman who happens to be a Muslim rural Punjab and people talking about you know the dirty jokes that they're not educated ants were telling at home and it was just a really kind of genuine look up.

What women are we took linval inspiration from Caitlin Moran how to be a woman and that's what I really cannot put the Titan from how to be a Muslim woman actually are we any different do we talk about anything any more unusual the what women are talking about in their everyday lives in the battles that they're fighting and that's what came across very strongly in the in the program that you know we're facing similar challenges and we're getting on with trying to deal with that was it difficult to get to some Muslim women to take party did referring the programme gu218ew people had reservations only reluctance.

We had was from one of the women who then took part saw him at the poet.

And I think her reluctance was really sorry to say this was a baby.

She said this is a BBC wanting to make some program again.

It's gonna be so lazy and stereotypical answer him.

You don't trust me on this.

I'm really interested dolls and I want to make a genuine program which is true and authentic and what was fascinating for both of us was because she was so hard to convince on with both jazz and I've spoken to her we were talking about this after was it is really pleased with the program area has been producing stereotypical images of Muslims and Muslim women in particular that case why do you think it is because festival in the BBC's predominantly made up of middle class white men and therefore their experiences how Limited in the kind of people people kind of their programs that probably.

Dracula's middle class men and women but of course they will go out make programs and their own images second think you can still generally quite lazy in the media.

It's easy to make a program.

Isn't it where you can just reach other stereotype or reach for this Usual Suspects will come and tell you but also I think sadly relation to Muslim women people want to only hear from them when they reinforce their pre-existing narrative and where was saint of no, that's not what we believe.

That's not what we like and that's not what we think then maybe we're kind of to testing and maybe baby season 1 Exeter testing program for do you think that anyway? There's probably two approaches to this on the one hand yes you put a battery of the doors yourself and try and make people pushing it as a way of people like you to have a job.

Is it with the Muslim community itself to say there aren't enough Muslim journalists and Muslim decision-makers in the media may be partly part of that is because a fear of them.

The don't you have to turn out with the Muslim comedian to get involved get into positions of power because if you do that, the programs will follow him.

It's gonna give them some is going to give them a job.

I have come across so many young talented British Muslim journalist want to be journalist who are struggling to get the internships to get their foot through the door.

I've spoken to so many young British Muslim journalist who said truly interested in me writing or doing a piece when it's about Muslims and even then when it's about to pre-existing narrative around Muslims I think they get bored with the way in which they pigeonholed and stereotyping.

How many can you learn what Michelle Hussain how many people can you actually name who are high profile and working in the mainstream of places like the BBC know you've got more to say to make series.

Banaspati, thank you very much now perhaps you're listening to feedback in the middle of the night as a podcaster on BBC sounds perhaps.

I keep you awake or more likely send you to sleep.

There is a special quality to night-time radio listening, so as we near Midwinter we thought we'd hear from you about what you switch on do in the small hours.

I'm Jean prince when I've had.

Of insomnia and get up in the night and sitting my study with a magazine and I put through the night on on Radio 3 hello and welcome to music through the night or 3 in the morning through the night is a bomb and a consolation win a symphony with a choir or chamber pieces being played it's just you in the music in the middle of the night and you feel connected.

My name is David Green I live up in the Isle of Lewis in North West of Scotland the best book about listen to the radio at night.

I feel certain line in the dark get here.

I really just cleaner makes a lot more sense all the other senses are drowned out and you can focus in on the spoken word listen to Radio 5 Apple night.

I just generally like this into talk radio news and current affairs things that happened throughout the world and also I have a family I have got a 3 year-old and a 5 months old so I now have to listen to the radio on my phone with One headphone and so it's a little bit different my name is David Morgan I listen to Welsh

Service in the nights are usually listen to it when I've woken up and can't go back to sleep and incredible person with a bit earlier pieces.

I put in tune to longwave and I really enjoy listen to things like Outlook felt.

Do you think you'd like that my name is Hannah and I listen to podcasts in the night so I mostly listen to Desert Island Discs or the Archers and let the storyline wash over me the Desert Island Discs podcast as a fantastic Four be able to read think about what people said and let's sings dwell in your mind.

Maybe one crash.

It was fabulous.

You got a perfect and new things about people you're not in a rush and we used to sit in a harvester.

And we used to just kind of kiss of course you're in a kind of quiet safe isolation snuggled up with your earphones in and it gives you other avenues to think about thank you for all those nocturnal musings do keep them coming and for those of you who have nodded off sweet dreams for those who are still listening to keep writing to us about all things on BBC Radio day or night and that's all from feedback, please join us at the same time next week, goodbye.