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Checking Reality Check…

BBC sounds music Radio podcasts hello in feedback, this week a mystery about a mystery of Radio 4 Extra for has been electrocuted well.

We weren't expecting that was listening to that gripping Val McDermid drama weren't expecting to be left hanging in the Air Tonight the final episode who done it also this week.

Why is BBC Money moving from broadcast to podcast one of them autosys change before you have to and if we can change Now to start to make sure that younger listeners get great value from the BBC in future that means a weird BBC there for everybody who the second part of my interview with the BBC's director of radio and education James Purnell I'll ask him whether the corporation is chasing younger listeners at the expense of loyal older ones but

Beginning with brexit.

I know I know we did promise to be brexit free last week and we were true to our word, but we couldn't keep it up not this week anyway, not after accusations that and I quote the BBC's reality check device is a piece of hubris switch this week's methods nemesis and that is presented Chris Morris's version of reality is strongly pro remain that is the view of the Conservative brexiteer Charlesworth writing in The Spectator magazine what triggered his remarks was a series of recent interviews on Radio 4 News programmes in particular one with the leading brexiteer pizza Lord Lilley on the Today programme last week.

They will probably have to check that it's a good we can handle that we can bring the world to aunt is a Walton as an increasingly frustrated leave voter.

I was delighted to hear Lord Lilley on the Today programme on Tuesday morning and even more pleased to hear is robust response.

The fact checker Chris Morris the implication was that Mr Morris would be telling us the truth behind Lord Lily's comments Chris Morris is the BBC's reality check correspondent and after speaking to Lord Lilley John Humphrys turned to him to comment on the factual basis for Lord Lily's remarks, it didn't go well.

I'm certainly will you can send you money and Economic Area disagree on the agitating for a Customs Union you can certainly might be pay for the reality of people who experience in it rather than people who are imagine you can send you make a case for real at all lead to Chris Morris's impartiality been called into question my name is Ryan Ashley from West Sussex I know that explains what Chris Morris is Roald was but in having him literally in the conversation.

What is John Humphrys not very successfully held in the ring they sounded as though they were arguing against each other but in general listener salmonberry once more reality checks.

Not less.

I'd like to congratulate the BBC on involving a reality check.

I think there's a real problem with interviewees unused programs being given a platform to mislead audiences having a an impartial reality checker on such interviews the brilliant idea and I like to see it become a standard the significant BBC interviews it would take a while to bed in but I think with time interviewees would get used to the fact that there will be a reality check of present and either refuse to be interviewed or be a bit more careful about what they say well Peter Lilley did get the last word and he was back again on Radio 4 alien this week this time on p.m.

With them and

With both men in pursuit of those disputed facts clearly haven't read my documents.

He would have said that about most Customs officers not having this for you when they Trade Association measurements come out and said we can have frictionless almost frictionless border.

I'd love to continue this really would literally I said about of time Peterlee coming in and I'm glad you've had your chance to get your hoover.

Let's get the weather in Rayleigh where did the wiser as Evan Davis said himself in that final interview Sam listen again bamboozled as to what to think and whom to trust the politician of the expert time for me to turn twin impartial journalistic expert.

He is just a Lewis a professor of journalism.

He spoke to me from his office at Cardiff University and I asked him whether he thought the BBC's reality check was worthwhile.

I think it's a very valuable piece of Public Service Broadcasting I think the most listeners find it difficult I thinking in an age where they hear politicians on either side debating.

See you when you get that tit-for-tat argument especially round his she's like brexit all the economy.

What they want to know.

I think is what does expert in partial expert opinion say on this what is there a son of consensual view on what is that? So I think actually fact check is an extremely useful thing to do if there is indeed anything impartial at this seems to be one of those issues, where it has she had as long as impossible both sides believe that right both sides immediately Condemned anybody questions what they do is being obviously of the other side absolutely and I think it's one of those objectivity impartiality push you in different directions and if you want to be objective you have to report.

What do you think of is that can and most likely implausible version of the truth is if you're being impartial you don't really pay as much regards that you just give both sides equal say regardless of whether one side has more evidence on it than the other and climate change for long-term climate change was reported as a controversy and you would.

It's roughly full-time four sides putting out that there might be something called climate change of those that disagree with that now the BBC I know has moved on from that is as many broadcasters have and acknowledge that the scientific consensus is so well.

Let me on one side.

There's no longer really a controversy to be discussed the example of science advances being challenged by a figure who usually regarded as an outsider initially and he then it was she becomes the consensus in the nuts Challenge for the wrong CBeebies keep a space in which people can challenge that consensus however impressive, it is yeah, that's true, but I think there's also I think you're a responsibility to report on where the weight of evidence seems to lie and there's also I think of real danger with seizing on controversy, which sounds interesting and raises interesting questions and I think we saw that around the MMR vaccine.

So it is a difficult one and anon areas like this where he has a weight of economic planning.

Please carry on one side, but you could you say it's absolutely conclusive well.

That will be very difficult to say but that's a judgement is made this comes to be difficult it seems to me.

It's called a reality check someone called a fact actually in some ways if you're not careful it can be a view of a judgement when we talking about what will happen in the future about negotiation.

What is likely to happen.

It's very difficult to have a reality check about a judgement something that would arise in future negotiations that stew but I think what people like Chris Morris and other people who do fact-checking try to do is point out what the factual basis is for making judgement one Way Or Another and I think he was quite careful actually when you was challenged to say what he was trying to do was established what we know but it wasn't fortunate wasn't it to have a situation in which is supposed reality check it gets involved in an argument with a politician at is not ideal but it was an axe.

Waiting to happen.

I've noticed on other occasions for example when a today presenter wood interview.

Let's see the prime minister of someone else now afterwards you come to Laura kuenssberg who was asked basically? What do you make of that? Do you think she's telling the truth watch you're not saying if you do an interview with someone and an immediately afterwards you have a reality check the impression as well actually.

You shouldn't really trust his politician, but you should trust us brexit is an issue.

Where is this was inevitably going to happen because this is an issue where there is quite a large body of Evidence and some of the evidence clearly favours one side so my favourite the other side, but I don't think one can just say why you got to eat for bothered Revenants here.

I think it's the responsibility of a broadcaster to basically says that he is where the evidence appears to live now.

You can hold this field is for you, but we're going to tell you what we think the evidence says and I think listeners want to hear more of that.

I think they're a little tired of getting the kind of claim and counterclaim around his shoes, but it's very difficult to make any kind of Judge

What about what's 2 and one isn't so I think it a good faith attempt to try and establish what the factual parameters are around an issue is absolutely something the BBC should be doing and do this more important now in the age of what we call fake Newstead we need reality checks in that way all this more than ever before we really do and then we have too much opinion there and not enough fat and I think that there is a real young girl.

I think for reporting that Focuses more on a can of soda analysis or even analysis of where the factual evidence lies and less claim and counterclaim because we got an awful.

Lot of tit-for-tat this politician says that this proposition says the opposite and it really doesn't leave us anywhere the wiser, but the broadcasters did they get drawn into a situation where their country does the opposition soa broadcaster in a situation of a highly contested areas got2b.

Very careful that pointing out the reality the facts doesn't leave them into providing the opposition to one of the sides one or other of the sides, but I think we have to ask ourselves suppose you have to particular viewpoint and one side says something that is demonstrably untrue shouldn't parcel broadcast to just sit back and make no comment or should it say actually we know that is demonstrably untrue or here is an expert to say that is demonstrably untrue.

I think we do need to know that if we don't do that then really anybody's for you becomes as valid as anybody else's and I think in this instance the BBC has to bite the bullet a little bit and being an adjudicator and it's going to get really criticised for doing it and we know that but I think it's a responsibility of a public service broadcaster our thanks to professor.

Just did Louis and if you go to the BBC's reality check website you can find lots more statistics to argue over.

Weather today programme introduced the concept of guest editors over the Christmas season in part because it was thought likely to be quiet news.

Guest editors would bring their own agendas and garnish some good publicity for the programme it won't be quiet this year with brexit bubbling away, but Radio 4 is still persevering with the idea.

David Dimbleby, Nash MC Martha Lane Fox Angelina Jolie Twitter Gary Andrew Roberts and then finally on New Year's Day we are apparently going to be edited by outer space.

We will await further instructions on that people think little green men are in charge any way of course but some blisters would rather hear some more down-to-earth voices representing them and they're not little or green leaving Oxford understand one of them to Angelina Jolie absolutely nothing against her but yet again of America

Nominated Dr Carl chinn, Building University essay, West Midlands historian, I think he bringing much-needed Midlands perspective so more Midland voices, please more reason.

Why she's thank you manners Bob Hawkins I live in Beckenham in South East London instead of the day before I can always choosing The Usual Suspects from the great and the good ones to supply better separators, who is certainly give a different slant to the news and current events maybe you just need to ask that that's what BBC Radio Sheffield is doing as part of its.

This is me campaign this weekend.

It's tougher opening their doors for X Factor star auditions to find somebody to become the new voice of the area Katrina bunker is the station's editor open auditions to find her a new voice for South Yorkshire for 2019 and really we're we're doing it to reach out and we think an important part of our job in BBC local radio is 2

Connect with local Communities and I think part of that should be about finding grassroots Talent and giving an opportunity to local people to setup find a way into the BBC but it's always been your job to be in touch you think you've been falling little out of touch when you say we need a new voice.

Are you implying some of the older voices Arthur in touch anymore? Not at all? I think that we are one of the bits the BBC that is most in touch with its local audiences.

I think this is just something new to try to connect with different Communities and I think that the sort of traditional way that we recruit people can put some people off.

What are you suggesting either? I'm white male and if you believe everybody had no trouble getting displacement broadcasting but lot of people say it has she difficult to get into the BBC or it certainly has been in the past to the Some Truth to that when you look around your own use room for example now.

I use at his.

Tried with makeup and I think I've got some brilliant people in our Newsroom and we've got people from all sorts of different backgrounds lots of our presenters on our daytime programmes have not sorted come to us through traditional University qualifications or journalistic backgrounds our Newsroom is made up of lots of different people very now.

I don't think they're totally imaginary but I do think that there is a perception from a lot of people that the BBC is on a bit of a pedestal and that there can be barriers to getting in so I kind of traditional way of recruiting people can still in some cases.

Emphasise University qualifications perhaps having journalism experience and those things are really important for some of the people in our newsrooms, but also being connected to grassroots Communities and giving opportunity to local talent that might not have that experience is also really in.

Portent to and I think that this is a way doing something like this is this is me as a way of the BBC showing that its doors are open to everybody and actually there are opportunities for anyone who has got the personality and something to say to have a go to radio has been losing audiences BBC local radio Down 10% honest in the last year and that you need to get more local again clearly and local radio has got work to do to connect with Communities but I don't think the measure of local rep BBC local radio is just in radio figures.

I think all of us who work in radio would agree that radio figures can be a blunt instrument in actually the success of local radio is measured not just in numbers who are tuning in but also in the way that we connect with Communities and bring invoices to the BBC but wouldn't be heard otherwise.

I think if I understand that lots of people turn up and you gradually system and are pubs a handful will be allowed through to the final judging is that how it all work and it will work in a similar style so and Sundays open auditions where anyone can come along will be in front of a small panel of Judges and people get chance to talk about who they are and then they have a minute to tell a story about themselves or where they live or something that they're passionate about you know how criteria will be about personality.

How people come across people's ability to communicate because at the end of the day.

We are radio so having those abilities are really important and then there will be a sort of more thorough interview process with the short list of people after Christmas I can we listen to follow this absolutely we will have highlights on our breakfast show on Monday morning from 7 and will also have some highlights on our social media pages so

And BBC Radio Sheffield is on Facebook and on Twitter so following both of those accounts if you want stay in touch with the progress and will also be sort of having live results of the winner of the this is me and processed on the radio in the New Year from you.

If you'd be interested in becoming a guest editor for feedback well the Producers need a break from me now and again.

Please tell us a bit about your radio listening and what you do if you were in charge of the programme just to underline that you can't change the presenter however tempted you are and of course we want to hear your thoughts on anything else.

You've heard on BBC Radio recently you can send an email to feedback at tweeters at BBC R4 feedback or you can leave a message on 0333 444 5004 standard landline charges apply but

Could cost more on some mobile networks or of course you can write to feedback.

Box 67234 London se1p 4ax all those details on the feedback pages of the radio for website now as we mentioned last week the BBC also wants to hear from you if you've got views on the future of the BBC licence fee which is currently free of charge for over 75's after 2020 under present plans The Corporation will bear that cost and it could heat up a fifth of the BBC's income.

It's not an enticing prospect so The Corporation has decided to run a public consultation about who should pay options include accepting the status Quo means testing the over 75's or raising the age at which the licence fee becomes free of cost removing the free licence all together and a number of you got in touch with your thoughts.


This is John Gately from Wallasey I don't need a TV licence because I don't.

Television but I do listen to Radio 4 at last I think it'd be a good idea.

If there was a means to make a voluntary contribution towards the radio idea being that those who listen to radio can help to fund it till shepherd from Loughborough in the East Midlands I think education entertainment and information are really important for quality of life and I think access to the BBC should be one of the essential items in the government's calculation of the minimum wage or what they call a living wage and indeed of state pension dunlavin, County Durham this consultation buys into a devices narrative that pensioners benefit at the expense of younger generation the BBC is obsessed with attracting a younger audience and investing in online delivery, how many people accessing BBC services on laptop or mobile buy a TV licence and rather look at new models of?

Language unite Generations the BBC take the easy option of penalizing loyal customers in the manner of discredited insurance companies so intriguing ideas, please do keep them coming I spoke to James Purnell the BBC's director of radio and education last week in the second part of that interview I asked him what he thought about some listeners claims that the BBC is desperate to attract younger audiences at the expense of older listeners.

We love our listeners their vital part of the BBC's audience, but at the moment or the young people consumers more than any other media organisation in the country.

That is falling and you know it by no means a crisis level but in one of them Autos this changed before you have to and if we can change Now to start to make sure that younger listeners.

Get a great value from the BBC in future that means a weird BBC there for everybody just won't be there for older people.

It's a look when your younger out most nights whatever you're you're you're not on the holy never really listen that much of the BBC was that when you when you start up children settle down get hold of pubs at work inevitably he will move and get the BBC habitats only been true in the past and it's always going to be true things older people listen to the BBC more than and watch BBC more than younger ones.

That's always been the case but the difference is being increasing in a way that means we can't take for granted the what's happened in the past which is people come back when they have kids will continue so that's why we need to do more.

It's also the case that you know if your 8 year old 15 year old 21 year old your part to this country and you know we should be giving you the best of Public Service Broadcasting you know when they're fake news.

We should be giving you an alternative source of information when you know there are smaller and smaller filter bubbles of content we should be bringing people together with the big programmes with the biggest weekend with Greg James with drama on BBC one said I don't think we should ever get into a world.

Where is so small clasp thing is just for one.

Part of the audience whatever part of your dinner, but they would say I'd older listeners would say they are being particular penalizes resources can be diverted to younger listeners.

They would point also to the fact that podcast that's money taken off.

They would say traditional aizawa, broadcast into podcast primarily directed the young people this is money that could have been spent on the programs.

They care about so they are they would make the case.

They are having to suffer to a degree so that you can experiment to see if there's a younger audience that you can get hold of we think older people I mean older people last podcast I mean they have just introduced my mum to podcasts on BBC sounds and she can't stop recommending 14 things he's finding on the BBC so you know what we want that and that's a great thing for by the way for the whole day Industries podcast now.

They're growing been about 10% bit more of the audience if we can through BBC sounds great platform which means more more people love podcast like we do with the iPlayer that means has a bigger cake for everybody in the industry expert difficulty.

Toby Shakespeare final question about an existential question about BBC Radio the word for previous director general John but there were various assumptions made about what would happen to radio listening and all the help we assumed a pretty steep Decline and it didn't happen.

Would you like to forecast in fire Willoughby actually 10 years time to think we'll have networks as we know them absolutely linear listening for feel the fundamental human need of companionship and it fits brilliantly with the modern world in terms of people desire to multitask and you know there's going to be great competition will be some substitution, but I'm totally sure that there will be big linear networks in the motorway there today and the BBC will be here and the licence fee will still be you like that in Tennessee and you look at what's happening with content investment if the licence with the witches falling in this country now the only way you can do a subscription model is by having big global companies the licence we didn't exist you'd have to invent it and a Public Service Broadcasting

Opportunity to also about having competitors who are need a licence to find did not coming out to the big streamers chew and spit out.

Thank you very much very much and it Tiesto the hard when there's a Predator on the loose fear is the very root of suspense in any detective stories like many feedback listeners, Michael tree is a big fan of Radio 4 extras diverse range of drama old and new they certainly helped him to while away the hours as he lay in his hospital bed the latest drama was Val McDermid detective comedy deadheading naturally my cousin god waiting for the denouement and it wasn't the only one this is China I was really enjoying AVI full episodes that were available and was looking forward to the conclusion of this exciting Little Drummer from Val McDermid there was a murder.

we don't know who done it yet, because episode 5 is not available and I live in water in Derbyshire episodes only broadcast on Sundays and after a cliffhanger episode 4 I was looking forward to the final episode witchwood reveal who done it a drama goes to a climax in the final episode next week except that it didn't arrive it went missing and fans was seething what it's like having the last pages of the Thriller tour now thrown away leaving the reader tearing their hair out Sarah Whiteley didn't really want to make an official complaint about the missing episode but after looking around the BBC website she found that was the simplest way to make appoint a response came very quickly, but she was surprised by its contents which he reads here.

Heading on Radio 4 Extra

The series was originally broadcast in June 2014 and as it is a repeat there's no guarantee of the whole series being broadcast again or of episodes being shown in the original order.

You've heard correctly there is no guarantee that they will be shown.

I think the complaints unit meant played in the original order papers Ariston I received to my complaint reminded me of w185 should abandon listening to the radio and concentrate on taking selfies of me and my bike.

It would be marginally less frustrating what happened.

Is that really Radio 4 Extra scheduling policy.

We were sent this statement break between the penultimate and the final episodes of deadheading due to a one-off program scheduled in the week in between while we try to avoid splitting up the series run.

We will do this on occasion to mark a special.

Centaur anniversary as we did in this instance with women in politics and we apologise for not making this clear a two listeners on air well.

The good news episode 5 was finally broadcast last Saturday two weeks after Episode IV A Rather protracted Cliffhanger again app APK side to the BBC your job you did Sarah just shows you have to keep the BBC on its toes, so just keep contacting feedback goodbye.

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