Read this: Football, racism and the media
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BBC sounds music Radio podcasts and this is the media show from BBC Radio 4 Silver not a single mention of the b word on today's show yes the media, show is a Break Free zone.
No, I just said it.
Oh well, no more.
I promise we'll be looking at the vexed issue of racism football and the media and whether they're Venn diagrams intersect with to Fleet Street Fighter sports writers and younger, in his here.
Hope of nuts that almost right while Morgan about yeah.
He's no lesson the man in charge of strategy for one of the world's most Luke to Sports Formula 1 yeah that used to work for Channel 4 and then Sky Sports what was it about the international travel the special access to the paddock and pit lane and the chance to drive fast cars the first track to use Formula 1 I think it was just really long working hours.
No no spare weekends that she is really really exciting to me deserves Halsey without you go to every rates.
About four or five-year sent to the most import the most strategic markets for us in terms of long-term growth because we could drink it and it'll be fine megalodon actually next next time I go to erase the 29th is Cheshire you heard it here first right before all of that you may have seen the hashtag save your internet will notice a number of YouTubers complaining about a new law which they say could put a stop to that blogging that video blogging in case you're not a practitioner article 13 is a new copyright law going through the European Parliament it says that online platforms are liable for content uploaded by users that infringes Copyright This is a big deal and this week's a delegation opposing it delivered a petition with 4 million signatures to the EU Parliament critics of YouTube and Facebook to scan every bit of content uploaded by users.
That's not a content by the way and check it against a data.
Use of copyrighted material the technology to do this may not exist if you think this sounds like some arcane European legislation would your research on Radio 4 spent too many Twilight hours investigating let me tell you it could have massive and vacations implications.
I should take for all of us.
Enjoy my cake Russell a content creator and crucially a reporter for BBC Click and Kate YouTube's been very vocal about this why they worried shoot at upload the checking of content to make sure it's not copyright protected and unfortunately I've been called the main killer but actually the regulation itself has gone through several iterations is Article 13 is part of the new European copyright directive and there are still several conversations to be had before it's finally voted on and the the people behind the director of actually exist.
He stated that they not targeting memes para Dior prestige.
This is a person what does mean? How's it going to change the Internet if it becomes a reality copyright directive is a much shall I just think that we're focusing on article 13 and Article 13 specifically addresses the use of other people's content being uploaded onto platforms that are aggregators.
So things like YouTube and you'll notice of any site between BuzzFeed people who use other people's content to populate and at the moment.
That is unregulated although there.
Are you know you can report things and things can be taken down for copyright infringement.
It's not officially regulated and YouTuber terrified of the regulation and the thing is Dave immobilized with a whole load of alarmist rhetoric a huge audience through YouTubers who did the teen audiences of YouTube is there encouraging them to lobby their parents.
Pineapple Stacey's resulted in an absolute storm life 15 year old girl in Germany is threatened to commit suicide in a really vulnerable and easily influenced young people who are being told that this directive this this article 13 is going to basically kill the internet for them and stop them being able to watch the content that they want to watch Argos YouTuber lots of YouTubers don't like the idea who supports it away from me enough a lot with all of the publishers all you know the likes of Sony and they and they collecting companies who collect the royalties of various different elements of music big big big companies that own intellectual property exactly and this is one of the problems that studied the issue so much over there going on here that it's been going on for now and the problem is that lobbying has happened very great scale to all of them that European members of Parliament and the commissioners and the director general as you know 101 over 750 official.
Number lock lobby meetings just on the ones we know about and and the majority of those actually have been the content that the creative Industries and their Publishing and associations, so there's a lot of very intense lobbying going on a very high level with millions tens of millions of pounds being pretending also friend of Christina she could see you again.
Where it to be passed, what were this copyright directive actually change change as much as people at the saying.
It's changing what it does.
Is it places an obligation on service providers and particularly service providers who are dealing with large amounts of user generated information to work with right tone owners to ensure their rights protected now actually it is already the case that copyright law exist people who created content.
People create copyright works at have a legal right to have that protected.
So they could Sue over anyway if there's infringement de copyright.
Just to put in contact copyright.
We want my bugbears.
I'm afraid as the media often use words like copyright and trademarks very interchangeability the different things ok, so copyright is a write in a creative work at in an original creative works at anything photograph.
You take a picture of yourself.
You've got copywriting it if you write a letter to somebody you've got copywriting.
It books films all these kind of things and so the the idea behind copyright law is to protect that and partly to protect it in in England and common-law.
Can't like America that the rationale is economic that unless there's copyright law nobody's going to create films.
No one's going to bother to at invest in them and I was going to create music in if you looking into the European approach is very much as a human right as part of your personality.
So you're painting part of your personality is literally I just think about my friend at home listening to the media show radio 4 also scrolling through YouTube and Facebook right now.
I think you these platforms travel all over that don't know because these these platforms are as you say the volume of information.
There is basically predicated on the idea that this copyright can't really be enforced not not necessarily and it depends on whether it's one of the problems is it depends on whether it's worth it for the rights owner to see so that's why you seem kind of class actions inverted commas where film companies get together and Sue file sharing sites where they're the files were you just remember that the litigation about Napster and those sort of sites where users were just uploading their songs and they found something she said that right soon as I get to Govan sick because if you get a group of people together suing a large group of people it makes economic the problem is for little individual users so he take a picture of your final.
Geography and you take a picture and somebody takes your Image and being around some caption to it and circulates it all around the world as as a meeting and actually saving finish your rice and it's all very well to say what are stopping that is a terrible restraint on freedom of expression, but if it's a fair use if it knows the images say an image from a TV broadcast BBC news or something a single steel or is still copyright infringement single still isn't really going to compete with the the market for the BBC broadcast to let you know if you've got a photographer whose a fine art photographer.
They take creating serious artistic work might actually be really damaging to them to have that image in circulated everywhere for free and made a mockery of it can actually be technologically done if 400 hours of video content is uploaded on YouTube every single minute to test that against as the bank or database of copyrighted material.
You know that tenner.
Please, just impractical is let me know.
How do you actually go back doing it the regulator draught text at the moment says effective content recognition technologies should be appropriate and proportionate was that without automatic filters spacing and omega computer algorithms that use artificial intelligence and big data to look at an image and then figure out what that images without human interaction another problem with that is you as we've seen anyone is followed the Tumblr reason either this week's Tumblr beginning the rollback on adult content on their site because the band that they put on adult content as we all know what that is and they pulling down things like a raw chicken labelled Patrick and you know a man hugging a lion because the algorithm has looked at that Anna seen something pornographic in it or seen it as something pornographic so we know that algorithms for and stuff like this is like using a sledgehammer to crack an egg on for.
Computers don't do context nuanced and another subtleties of humour very well.
That's about setting if you're going to do it automatically going to set up a filter that you know you said it now rather than higher, but I think it's important to remember that this at the moment the text of this directive still be negotiated.
So there are three competing text because it's been go shitted by the European Council the European Commission and the European Parliament and they ultimately though.
It's what in what's called trilogue negotiations are in a snappy title many three-way negotiations and the UK Parliament draught at the moment says that if there's a complaint under this mechanism that that has to be subject to human review syntax weather memory of Robin today.
Obviously this European directive is a directive which will be applied in different ways in different countries.
So who are you know again? If this is one of the things has been made it the water.
So money and and of course the directive counselling sells a flip-flop to a large degree regarding article article 13 over the last year with you know the original recommendation said they had to have automated filters and then that is latest recommendation the wording is slightly different lying reasonable measures trespassing very close to the b word.
There are no no no don't listen to him.
So he can't say that it doesn't apply in this country that has to be it would have to be implemented.
We we will look forward to that does it have does this massive potential change to platform that YouTuber Facebook does it have implications for Media owners like Liberty Media that the owners of Formula 1.
It was first it should be in that are beautiful on his right hold it should mean that our rights are infringed less it made me and if I understand it correctly that instead of us is Formula 1 having to pay organise.
Patients to police this for us the platform themselves would do it and it'll be another site it which is there are probably some benefits to come from content being in for long example content being used by audiences that typically won't go to the official channels that are the football on has unlocking you got 1.8 million followers on YouTube you think of it as or subscribe, so she said you think of YouTube the big z of place before marking grow and reach beyond its current audit.
I think YouTube Instagram Facebook to a lesser extent.
They are thus of the platforms where we can really engage younger audiences from a social media perspective Eastbourne as obviously this is the area that gets talks about the lot in sports is trying to tap into younger ones is persona YouTube this is one that we talk about how I was going to do that before you do image of Formula One right now heard lots of girls and so what do you think of brandy is right now?
Yeah, good question.
I think you know two years ago when when Liberty bought the asset.
I think formula was Sports Centre resting on its laurels, not seen much in the way of growth from a fam specsave from a commercial perspective certainly still viewed as being premium potentially very macho as a sport what we try to do as a new management team the last couple of years is to create a new set of brand values and Eve you seen the removal of Greek girls and that's ultimate tactical decision, but we've done it to century highlights of the world that you know where you are and it doesn't fit in with with a new brand values were more inclusive sport.
I think about that term premium Winstead see ourselves as aspirational analysis we shouldn't be just for the Elite you say that without without fans.
We have a large number of Sid of middle-aged affluent found but also increasingly large number of fans from developing countries younger audiences and we're
More female skewed now than we were so about 63% I believe of our fanbases is female it was it was learnt that said it's expensive elitists Christina getting rid of grid girls and good things.
I would say that to you soon as you come in you've got the job is going to change it theories is interesting decision which is the next season all of the races exception of won the British Grand Prix on TV in the UK the other sports like cricket.
I found the happiest hurting cost to me financially my Bluetooth Sky Sports had a fantastic job with cricket, bat you lose speech.
Why is that a Price worth paying? Why is it commercially want to do that? I think I was me when it comes down to media rights.
It's a century a balance between reach and revenue and you know as I mentioned.
We are the commercial rights sold for Formula 1 so we have to ensure we provide value and returns to our shareholders.
And also to the teens, who are the ones who alannah prize fund for their sustainability at the same time without fans.
There is no Formula 1 so it's about striking that balance in terms of our strategy in on most mature markets and buy mature.
I mean markets.
Will we have a large audience already with this probably less head room for growth.
You will see content on 4K TV but that doesn't mean that there won't be any any free to view content and I use 32.
You purposely instead of 32 out.
There will be continued to have extended highlights on the same day in prime time on Channel 4 next year now.
You might say ok.
That's highlights as opposed to live but actually look at the viewing figures about 2.4 million people watch Channel 4 races live at the moment this year and just under 2 million watch the extended highlights you got anything that much of a drop also crucially we are in brace and disha and social so we go back to YouTube and the gaming forgive me vintage sidecar.
We can almost Basie play along if you turned Formula 1 viewing.
The game is this true what year is forces is definitely a huge growth area for us and I'll get to the ghost club in the second run out of time.
I think we think that in the future and will be able to allow viewers to drive alongside the drivers in a virtual car and that's probably still a couple of years away, but it'll allow for a much more engaged experience and crucially what happened to younger audiences hit bases hers watching Formula 1 introversion America which means happy take me back to my childhood.
I might have to come back.
I want to turn the main points of the week and this is a mental but not Justin Media circles put on terraces and in living rooms across the land on Saturday Manchester City and England striker Raheem Sterling went to pick up a ball in his team's match against Chelsea and encountered some pretty strong abuse from Chelsea fans.
Whether it was racist or not.
We don't know sterling is Black by the way, I could have used it went viral q outrage and Q thoughtful social media update from Stirling himself.
You said that he wasn't surprised that the
On Instagram he wrote that some parts of the media fuel racism saying that sterlings off field life has appeared on front pages almost as much as his exceptional goal scoring record has appeared on back pages acres of newsprint and column inches have been devoted to the controversy this week in a thundering editorial the sun push back hard against the claim that any of its coverage was tinged with Prejudice do we have a racist Media culture even it's lovely subliminally so earlier.
I spoke to Darren Lewis football right of the Daily Mirror currently in Hungary to cover Chelsea's latest fixture and Matthew side a sports columnist for the Times is a lack of representation in the media.
You are probably a few TV presenter of colour to be asking the questions and I think that in itself Diamonds will try to empathize with the young black footballer, but we have to see black presenters or people in positions of decision-making in our Media Industries to be able to do so.
Mechanics I would you happen as you've been coming football for a long time.
You've widely garlanded, won many awards for your reportage.
How is it that what Raheem Sterling experience of the weekend is a result of a media culture in your view.
What's happened since last weekend.
Is there a similar to what happened on many occasions during the two decades have been working for the Daily Mirror we see a couple of people abusing a football and the subsequent reporting is all about the individuals not about how we got there not about the causes not about the fact that I Kick It Out the anti-racism body report tells us that there is being su job search wiring up surge in the number of people who feel able and want to abuse people on the basis of the colour of their skin.
This is a societal problems rather than a cultural problems that we have people of colour in the media to be able to influence and shape the debate.
ShakeAway that black people and I use a black people could I have that I can only refer to my own experience and what I would like to sit on to trade then we have a different perception of people of colour in the media at the moment.
We don't know the perception of people of colour is being determined by white middle class men and you know this is about me.
This is what in sterling has done.
She is made an impassioned plea to actually think about what we're doing when we are making judgements about young black men you mention social media when the things we talked about a lot of the show is the the way in which new media social media and digital platforms have changed things you also wrote in a column in the mirror this week's dad that support journeys.
Have a good relationship with sterling but the other media don't so much because there are hits and retweets in it.
What did you mean by that?
Culture where people are almost encouraged to to to go for what is most insane lyrics so that it can go viral on the platform, so we have people who they will point the finger at the print Media but they will aggregate their copy.
They will I get their content level 3 wasn't me.
Yeah but they will be happy to get involved in that kind of debates and I think nobody in the media should feel themselves above reproach in relation to this we can do more the Daily Mirror can do more to BBC can do more at somebody from the BBC, wanting to the world 4 minutes to the subject a complex subject that affect people's lives here.
We have a seminal moment because we got a footballer saying that I'm not happy with the way treating me.
I'm not worried about the book that I have to now risks the backlash that I may get to stay.
And say something trying to change your culture pantomime the Times Matthew Wilson powerful this week about this issue Matthew we might be talking about a crime here and yet the fan who shouted at sterling has been identified his pictures all over the internet whatever happened to the idea of guilty until proven innocent absolute what Darren has just said and to say that I've been way too timid in the space because if you take a step back one of the biggest changes over the last 100 years has been attitudes to race from slavery to segregation to the race relations act and other national newspapers who have never had a regular columnist on their pages from an ethnic minority background what that means is that the perspectives the points of View of the experiences of people of colour have not been represented to readers of these newspaper.
To themselves of the holders of power so this story of sterling is 1 tiny pics of Anna much bigger picture and it's not just about race because unless you have Diversity of viewpoints.
It is one of the points made by Jonathan Heights with great evolutionary psychologists is unless you have Diversity of viewpoints diversity of perspectives you can never reach truth forgive you fancy word for those who don't know you'll see former professional sports player who took says you're mixed race at yourself on appointment representation as you know I used to work in your favour.
So I hear you.
I do want to come back to this issue of crime though because there is such thing as due process and there is such a thing as the law and I just put you that the fan whose pictures all over social media whatever the rights and wrongs when you did what happened to guilty until proven innocent I posted that mean you might not know that I think I was the first person to post the moving pictures of this fan on the social media and I said it looks to me as if he might be shouting.
Racial abuse tweeted yesterday that the presumption of innocence is very important part of our life and that he should be given the benefit of of due process.
I think most right by the people decree about that downloads from the Daily Mirror it's very important for me to say that there are a lot of people in tabloid journalism in this country who will be discussing horrified at the idea that they have any prejudicial thoughts and that they are in anyway racist and do the sun Rohan editorial this week saying that it's completely absurd to suggest that son hasn't anyway being prejudicial.
Do you actually suppose that there are parts of newsrooms in Britain not at any specific newspaper.
Not the sun or anywhere else notice in your favour.
No specific TV organisation.
Do you actually think that there are parts of newsrooms that are racist.
For right now.
I Solutions not problems sterling and highlights of the Solutions I don't think that but the sign and his conduct is now the focus.
I don't think it's going to singers is the focus the focus is on her way forward with players like Raheem Sterling become pretty savvy really these days about the way which they use unfiltered social media to fight back against this sort of thing you're going to hate me because I wanted one of the questions that you don't think I'm not racist but I think it's all that making a distinction between two types of racism exactly people for the people of colour were morally inferior intellectually inferior that few still held by hardcore racist.
I think we see in other parts of society is subliminal racism.
What happens in the media is decent people who would never consider themselves racist are presenting stories of a particular way, they know that it's readable they think it will get hit and it creates a pattern that does allow climate to take place where the old fashioned racism can make something of a comeback.
I do not see both about Solutions the way forward for me expose alluded to about Matthew Joseph just come back to promote social media Raheem Sterling was able to take to social media.
It was a it was a post it look like he had written it came from the heart it that is a useful way in which is in Avenue that wasn't open to players the previously likes of John Barnes for instance.
You may have experienced similar things and social media has helped us fill this conversation hasn't difference to the footballers empty football teams so Raheem Sterling Road a first-person be selecting a party and on the online journal during the World Cup or just before and
It was a great insight into who he is and what he's had to go through in the formative years, but the World Cup the England team you might remember was quite heavy they posted on their own platforms interactions with players and perspectives of players and I think that does give players an opportunity to interact directly with the people they want to influence.
I still think there's a big role for the mainstream Media to unquestionably the power of the mainstream Media in terms of being the main conduit to disseminating information about the places the reduced and its solutions for both you might decide what needs to happen that influence and power to start combating the subliminal verses which I sent has constrained the opportunities for people of colour to reeds positions of influence and power because once people on there once there is a critical mass.
Agape in blindspot, and I'll put it in our public discourse will be closed off download same question to you.
What should have another player's realise that they have the power just as the black sports stars do in America and there's mobilize themselves life in what we now need to do first Hall is listen to what the players is sex Box second of all we need to have a new drums around the country print and broadcast people of colour in the decision-making process Lewis idea about 10 seconds left which is why it's outrageous me to answer to question of all our guests if they have the likes of Raheem Sterling to be wrong by a media culture that to Central question Christina briefly Media diversity is important both as as was just mentioned in the newsrooms the journalist and in the content ok as a member of the media.
I think we all need to take more responsibility for the Lang
We used to eliminate biases of all types gloriously BBC answer that sterling has yes been wrong and it's now time to create a proper plan that will increase diversity and representation as don't always too and thank you so much for listening with back at the same time next week.
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