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Read this: BONUS Matthew Chance, CNN Senior International Correspondent

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BONUS Matthew Chance, CNN Senior Interna…



BBC sounds music radio podcast the media show from BBC Radio 4 right and exclusive extra blast at the media show for you listening to the podcast Matthew chance CNN senior international correspondent is with me at Matthew were talking in the main show at about the persistent criticism that she then gets a present trump when you turn up at news about that say you're from CNN what's the reaction from ordering people and how's that changed over the course of your career.

What depends depends where you turning up turning up to the news event in which country can you tell the American Russia in Russia they they adopt the same language as as the White House does President Trump does day.

They don't hold back and say no it's fake news anything you say is fake news but getting just like with trump the Kremlin the foreign ministry in Russia that use that term as a way of describing use that they don't want to hear as I mentioned in the show we we we we are at the sum of ap.

Centre in Russia of fake news in in the way that we we have come to to understand it and I mentioned all the ways in which the Russian government and state Media puts out multiple narratives 2 presenter confusing picture at what didn't get to is the is is the issue of how they actually and we seen it from the internet research agency in St Petersburg know that the blogger the box that intervene in actual divisions in societies of other countries and then try and amplify those divisions.

Thereby creating a sort of a fake his stereo with seen it actually staging race rallies in a white Power rallies, and you know black lives matter rallies in in in the United States was completely set up from from st.

Petersburg on a course of those you mentioned these allegations have been involved in increasing the divisions in the brexit Debate as well.

So that amplification is also I think of form of fake news, but there is no because you've got that to do so.

Call degrading the truth kind of the active site anarchic jumping on divisions in the social media space in terms of what foreign elections due from the rest of you with the same time.

There's a very very tight control on the States message through state broadcaster studio, they they keep it very iron grip on that.

What do you watch the atmosphere for foreign journalists like you in terms of Jura feel like your life is actually under threat to her feel like you are the enemies you feel like the people of Russia a turning against you know I don't feel like I'm I'm under threat in that way, although you know we've we've we've had threats in the past you get random calls cook the office a Mario cinema going to get you.

I think the main way that the Russian authorities deal with you as a foreign news organization particularly one that regard as a hostile from hostile country and they do regardless unfairly I think it's in it like that.

Is it they isolate you they they they don't talk to you.

They don't engage with you.

Get no access whatsoever and very little access to any of the any of the year.

The officials are we having interviewed Vladimir Putin friends and since 2008 when I sat down with him shortly after the the brief Georgian war in in that year, but that's how many years ago that 11 years ago nearly that depends what time would you get the interview Putin what's interesting? We we routinely lobby the Kremlin for for an interview with him to go to the post office in actually.

I'm if I'm back in her preface all of my answers about historical events with the fact a Dmitry peskov visits to the Prescot he is he's the processes that save access point to two black men Putin and we're into love daily contact with him actually.

He does he does speak to a sneeze.

It'll call you up.

He sometimes does and I sometimes have a cup of tea with a bad dinner with him but comes to getting access to put in that's that's not on the agenda and you told me why he said look you know we're not going to anger the White House by giving CNN interview.

Putin he's not he's told me that have you got it in 2008 was a very different situation because I think that there was such a lot of media coverage of the obviously at The George of war and Mikhail saakashvili.

You remember was Jesus the George and present that time he was all over CNN all over every Media organisation and they wanted to count that the Russians thought in a we need to get our message out there.

Let's gets better put people out there.

They called they called me up and said medvedev the prime minister first the next day Putin we did Sergei lavrov, Dmitry medvedev medvedev, and then Vladimir Putin the following date 3 days 3 days in a row.

How did you prepare for the Putin interviews? What was yours with approach? But my heart was too well.

Obviously we had a major news story about handsome Eastleigh it was like a feature interview was outside but a hard news interview you know we just just stage that an invasion of a neighbouring country and you know what I will say is that planet Putin's very tough interview to do as

Is it as that the memories flooded back now have they had difficult it was is not somebody you can push around in an interview.

Can't interrupt you interrupt me literally no says no you cannot interrupting me.

I have to continue and of course.

He's a very sort of hurting.

It's got a huge quite small but he's got a commanding presence.

It's difficult not to be intimidated by him.

He doesn't give interviews now.

She wants to say something so you can ask him whatever you want and he's going to go listen.

That's that's great.

This is what I want to say and what he wanted to say in that interview was that this was not Russia's fault dishwasher didn't ask for this war was provoked and that the Americans were those of orchestrating the the violence from inside Georgia and it was all a conspiracy to make Russia look back and thank you.

I think with this guy is so accomplished when it comes to controlling the media any does it through brutal memes of course he is very difficult to get anything out of him that he doesn't want to give you last question on interview Putin what what is intimidating about him.

Is it the fact?

You physically intimidating because he's a short guys use a bit saucy extremely physically fit or is it a fact that he present at Russia and he's got a huge charisma? What is it to do is intimidating is a genus when you sit down to interview you think he might kill you if you get things that you can slip into your cup of tea the next morning.

Look a minute.

I wasn't saying I was intimidated by him you have to be after fight fight against that I was it over having to add more intimidating people than him, but I mean this is a man who is sitting in front of you that has vast power unparalleled power at his fingertips.

You know there are very few political leaders in this country that have absolute Power over the over the levers of of of state for the cleaner state as as large and as powerful as as Russia this is not a tinpot you know nation.

This is a country with a fast nuclear Arsenal the biggest nuclear Arsenal and they got a political will to you.

They're incredibly growing and Powerful military.

He doesn't have been killed if you know you know you can't be absolutely certain that you're going to live a very happy and healthy long life.

Why did.it send you a package with milk cartons.

Oh, oh yes this was this is last Christmas not this Christmas Christmas before how many no actually it was a weird one, but they don't they sent a card saying.

Oh, you know happy holidays for your foreign agents and it was at a time when there was a bit of a scandal going on in in the United States when Russian Media would being forced to register as foreign agents and in the Spirit of reciprocity which Russia always likes to likes to a dear to they were saying that cos we're going to make CNN and other American channels at register as foreign agents Robert course the problem problem from what is there?

Not for an agent's because we're not controlled by the government independent commercial companies, so it's not the same as though they eventually didn't didn't make good that threat in 2011.

You are one of the journey taken hostage by Colonel Gaddafi at a hotel in Tripoli during the Libyan Civil War you rather notoriously I reported on a capture via Twitter it still through that experience has ever happened Twitter Twitter remember was the only opportunity I had to to to get any kind of reporting act and then we go back and how did you end up there and what we will covering ideas easy the bombardment of of Libya by 980.

I think it was and you know the that aspect of the what we subsequently called the the Arab Spring uprisings and because we didn't know how I was going to Japan ahead and the deployment to the to the hotel is the Rixos hotel in in Tripoli

That was worth the Libyan government of the time Gaddafi's government and kept it journalist kept the journalist if you will be invited him by the Libyan government and we have people of course with the Rebels as well, but you know I was on a rotation into this this as this hotel to cover the government side at that's why you won't you were fed three times a day you were taking on little dog and pony shows to see the latest impact of the bombing that going to think it was all like boring actually was a really nice gym man who was only much do and then suddenly have caused the surprise of everybody including to hear all the people at the hotel the staff at the hotel the security forces there Tripoli fail your end and the Rebels took over the entire City leaving just a few pockets of Gaddafi control the review places around Tripoli where forces loyal to Gaddafi health control and and that hotel was was one of those places all the staff did a runner they completely abandoned it and left us with a bag 10 cannon wild eyed gunman.

You know loyal to Gaddafi who you know as the situation started to unfold and it started to realise over several days that you know there was only went well.

You know they got increasingly anxious and you know it was very very young in touch and go time for a while, but did you think that putting your your tweets out did not strike you that could be something that was harmful to your safety.

I'm not sure they were that plugs into social media at that point didn't think they were those things going on this is a relatively early data is age action when there when you're in a situation like that.

I'm not everybody felt the same way as me on this issue, but when you're in a situation like that, but I try to do in dangerous situations as focus on the focus on the job you get your mind off it frankly and this is what you there to do.

You know it's no good sitting around panicking and thinking you know what are you?

I'm going to do you know I tried to get some information out there.

It takes up your time.

It keeps your mind off the sort of threat that's hanging over you and that's that's essential I think for a to maintain your sanity is actually go around the world you a lot of people talking about how these terrible things that they Witness and I've witnessed some appalling atrocities appalling amount of bodies I stepped over in the course of my career thousands upon thousands of them in various scenes the way you deal with that way.

I deal with that is by focusing on the on the on the job focusing on the technical aspects of constructing reports and putting them out.

Give to a certain amount of detachment which I think it is important and necessary if you're going to do this job long term let me abolished attachment for a second by asking you what the worst thing you've Witnesses always always ask this question actually and it's a very.

Question2answer because it was without doubt the the Massacre of children and I are use that that turn you having for about a lot in am in bed lying in in Southern Russia where he doesn't fall out where Rebels from the the mainly Muslim south of the country took over this school in Southern Russia in the on the first day of term there early September and they basically held everybody all the little school children and their parents who has a big data Thursday school the rushes a big day will having a celebration held hostage for days and days and days and days and then you know there was Anna as a botched attempt by the Russian Security forces to to rescue them about me out with the with the exception of a handful or two with of obtuse on who escaped most most of those kids were work.

The number one cause of death in in that in that situation was that was a single shot to the back of the head is objective germs impossible when you see that sort of thing you must be so I can tell looking you listening to thank you must be so emotionally invested in it that some of the high standing principles of news broadcasters like CNN what you might call American genus more broadly who have very high falutin principles and actually often very admirable principles about keeping not Becoming Part of the story returning a certain call detachment is that possible when you see kids TV show the back of head? I think it's possible you know funny.

I am getting quite emotional talking about it now, but I can you get it's actually put through the years.

It's got more intense that feeling when I was actually there are used the technique of just described to you by focusing on the technical aspects of it.

He didn't have a child back then since becoming a father which would it subsequently and you know in my child growing up? It's pick up everytime.

I think about it.

Became a can of agonizer I can barely I could but I couldn't do it now.

If I went back there tomorrow in them something else like that happened.

I don't think I'd be able to be I won't be able to do the job.

How do you reconcile a life spent in airport lounges and on the front line and witnessing Masters with family life well, it's been it's been I've been a challenge.

It's been a challenge.

I mean the fact that I'm I'm I'm no longer you the Frontline journalist write that was for many years the Moscow Moscow now and I did on purpose obviously because I felt that you gave me a degree of stability and at the side of a story I could focus on it.

So you know I thought at the time but it's not it's not a war story.

I thought I remember about a month before they went into Syria and and you know took took with no took sides with the with Bashar al-assad's forces in the interior not been to Syria a cup of time since then one of my motivations was looking at maybe I shouldn't be Frontline reporting as much as as much as I have been maybe I'll sit in Moscow has only worked at the way I anticipated but

You did it is it is a difficult it is difficult balance and I'm not sure it's possible to strike that balance actually have to decide where you want to go.

Do you think finally there's there is a long-term future for your brand of Rolling news TV journalism.

Is there a sensor which social media is now very effectively occupying the place that rolling news channels once did I think definitely there that the idea that when there's breaking news is switch on ATV ATV channel has been has been eroded by by the advent of social media but anything that means that the kind of thing that I do necessarily becomes becomes obsolete.

I mean remember new televisions.

Just a platform.

You know social media is a plateau people click on on videos on social media.

Just as much as they watch on TV I mean I mean that something that gives me gives me hope for the future.

We still have a role as TV genus, but maybe it won't be TV will be even that mean we do we do a lot of stuff on on on on digital.

Crystal tellin' stories on digital surrender know about the future, why should one be a journalist in 2019 what I mean? I think journalists and more needed now, then it could be there any anytime in the in the past or Radio 1 of this is one of the key moments to be a genus.

Isn't it? Having particularly we're talking about this earlier with this profusion of information at that typed out even more important to have trusted sources of news people who can tell the difference between what's fake and what's real people you can trust her to give you need anything.

It is great talking about citizen journalists.

That's that's that Santa has a great idea, but we seen what the downside of that is and it's like giving you a learner driver the keys to your car and sending them out onto the motorway.

Isn't it at that disaster inviting disaster and I think you know there is an important role for journalists to had to cut.

This information nonsense that we've we found ourselves in the middle of the moment.

Sorry trying to do on this show Matthew chance of CNN thank you very much indeed for a pleasure.


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