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Read this: #106 - The Albert Square Property Boom - The Media Podcast with Olly Mann

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#106 - The Albert Square Property Boom -…

Hello and welcome to the media podcast I'm only man on today's show for the best and worst journalism of the Year of the microscope and Discover why the cost of rebuilding Albert Square has gone millions over budget plus we plot the trajectory of personalized podcast ads and in the media quiz challenge our guests to name the personality at the heart of the TV shows Sue to come to ask you don't come in today's podcasts and yes is the is Rebecca gillie.

Hello Rebecca I know it says he what have you been up to since we last met we last met this morning regarding the week unwrapped so probably have been doing the podcast and we it's funny actually I got we have tweeted out today by Cheltenham Science Festival baby did a live show last year and it's funny because we kind of in the process of maybe putting together.

Another live show no one spoke to me.

I'm very expensive only 3 weeks of the Year left busy stressful like this one of you is really weird Technika telly because everyone who has got the gas already out with not for us, but I think for people that I've got the person with them things get a little bit quiet with females less emails get return so it's a little booking in the hope you can get people before they do disappear off to wherever their Christmas holiday homes or and someone is no stranger to mulled wine in a mince pie and that you're jetting off after this to your own Christmas but I am it is the MD of something else Steve Ackerman three guests everybody 3DS what's on the radar of something else next year lots of things can tell us about yeah, definitely will be producing the

We can't you make and an exciting TV project with another ageing rocker which seems to be are speciality the past few few years so so following on from Ronnie Wood yeah, but not runny but not another decent name say another decent name ok speculator will let's talk about EastEnders over budget and over the deadline.

I've been rebuilding the EastEnders set and it's going to cost 27 million pounds more than expected Barry mine public money really cos this is the BBC for as you won't be seeing me this money to go to houses Echo yours.

Intense project manager.

I mean big project and Dave underestimated any other think the thing about the bead is because it is a public service and it's Estate Association it did the risk the risk of kind of going over budget and November overspending is not just really feel as urgent when you're a small company and I could have been on both sides of its way.

They said discuss more is what they're not want a

So, it's like they have to do it.

Why do they have to do it can someone explain why these have been forced into a corner really afford it because they can't shoot in high-definition at the moment because the old sex a tattoo when it was originally supposed to last two years, but has now lasted.

I think more than 30 years which is bonkers and very BBC is that if they showing high-definition you'd say all the Little Wool bobbles another quiz on BBC One HD EastEnders so is that an upscale my understanding of a technical understanding of its broadcast in HD so it looks better than if it was broadcast in SD but it's film Dynasty so it doesn't with regional news then instead of giving us that be fucking screen 2018 for God's sake of a transmitted from local news rsd.


So it said it so locally the storm Dynasty and its transmitter Dynasty where is a BBC One is it can be HD transmitter?

ASDA living on HD channel it still looks a bit better because it's not being compressed we get to you.

That's why camera's here to talk about the number because they are quite staggering to the original forecast for the scheme was 59.7 million pounds 2 HDI is Albert Square is now gonna be 86.7 million lb Steve do you think that is justifiable well well, it's justifiable not is a different thing in terms of basic rate in the film set but I think the real part of the reason why this is really in the public glare and whites open at this current time is obviously what's going on with the licence fee for OAPs and the cost-saving potentially there needs to be found there in terms of I think that's about 800 million and therefore when you have these sorts of overspending you look at his you go well.

That's kind of the programme budget probably at something like six music a lot of money spending on a program.

That's made twice.

Callum Italy BBC gets great value for it because it's every week 52 weeks in a year but but but but the crucial element.

I think is framed within this license the problem and the fact that in 2019 is coming like a big boulder down the road that either the BBC has to solve that all they got massive massive cause problems coming and therefore things like this really start to get scrutinised because you say how can the BBC be over spending to such a degree when they have to tighten their belts and it's about trying to say they had recently had the I think of the Victoria Street extension which we actually talked about on the week unwrapped and again was baffled that wanted bring it up, but they were in new shop sponsored by The Co-op and custard Elvis leader BBC One the same way but that was so going to be adding some new locations to Albert Square and its environs are still going to continue filming at the BBC Elstree centre in Borehamwood which I suppose they actually have received.

Ability to that community to does get talked about very often because it's not a very sexy regional outpost.

Is it Elstree thought I was Greater London but that mean its original commitment that actually isn't it a little bit of London Thameslink oyster Zone just about inside very convenient for me understanding is quite close to the other so I don't know where the building I think it's I think it's quite close by I might be wrong with this is not big Elsa and Anna mind sending this new site is nearby it's not like that kind of like moving away from Elstree Eastenders filmed in West London but I think they may need to do this what I'm worried about if I'm worried about it, but there's a possibility is it because they overspend so much they know they don't need to justify it afterwards inpost justify it.

Meaning to see loads of like Eastenders specials or Strictly Come Dancing on the streets of Albert Square where they will try and kind of like used to set for other things to come to spread the cost out another program in which is again very BBC thing to do the EastEnders experience exactly.

I know you can do things like that and your kind of feel like you don't give something back commercial fishery be able to do that Charlie net pay for it, but it could be what I'm worried about is that you'll end up with a glut of programming or from one particular supplier all in one particular space and then because he wanted to come to Eastenders channel because I try and film everything there.

What would be interesting is to find out whether or not they're putting other studio facilities when they're building that so if they're building lots of fronts of buildings and houses and a body different types of front of building houses, so they can open up to indeed write me to kind of film a set of the drama of something that we can't afford to do but suddenly this becomes available that becomes quite excited when you got set.

Seen used in a regular and sending this kind of money on a new soap opera the BBC said we can spend 75 million lbs building etc are new programme of the public really would be up in Arms because it's EastEnders because it's been on for that long.

You got Billy's going to be successful.

It's going to work in that's what it costs and the if you were a commercial entity you might be a bit closer on the numbers because you've had your potential in the truth is obviously not close enough to this in the sense of being a monitor need to do financially because only really emerged because of the order public accounts committee or the board yeah.

Oh, yeah, so it's only really come out.

It hasn't hasn't come out through the BBC this is come out.

The auditing of the BBC of the monitoring of the BBC and obviously the BBC's always on the back foot when there's never any element of an ovis Pendle waste of money, but then again you have they what kind of should because it is probably built it for you if you are in Borehamwood and you want to do a tv back stage 2 or if you go to the park next to Tesco in just need to walk 5 minutes into the park.

You can see the Buckingham Palace balcony from the crown right there in the middle of are really you're not busy enough.

Are you on it? I can listen to podcast whilst on walking stick right.

Let's talk about Time Magazine and their nomination of person of the year 2018 and it's not a single person at all.

Is it Rebecca but there's one in particular is captured the headlines if that was last year where they had their the me too movement was there person of the year it's very actually it's obviously for lots of reasons, but I think the expanding out being Award for groups of people.

Something that I think maybe they are going to start maybe they should start looking to move away from and loan.

Who were the two reuters journalist jailed in Myanmar I better go to M&S security and your music was there as the capital Gazette Maryland which had a fatal shooting back in June that's a whole Newsroom and Maria ressa is a journalist in the Philippines facing tax evasion charges that she calls political harassment is a whole group of journalists who are under the cosh basically include one very high-profile one who died in its political statement.

Isn't it? That journalists are under threat do things the right time to do that? Yeah, I mean absolutely I think in terms of you know the choices.

They could have made a thing as a very strong one especially you know we've had so many tax on the media through the year you know both of them in this country.

You know where the brexit been lots of attacks on both right and left wing media and then of course in the US you got trump and his ongoing war against the Media's I think this is a really strong statement.

I just personally think that.

Dying to move away from kind of the whole premise of the award and start and it's just starting to be pinned to movements the Year rather than the actual idea of being attached to one particular person because you're the first person ever to win it after they died Trader used to have to be someone alive.

It's really interesting to draw attention to his work to the point.

Isn't it? Yeah? I mean news stories incredible because it's stayed in the news when so many things have happened this year that that you've just sent you forgotten about and and and waited that story has been tripped fed to delete to the audience via the Turkish government only stayed within the news agenda and bandpass sending you Cycles Years Eve astonishing its own right let alone that kind of Horror of of the story itself have been I I saw the announcement when I was a kid who Twitter and Christine and pause Twitter, came up from CNN and she kind of mentioned it and said you know this is we're all Jamal khashoggi and you know we all should come over separate people that do whatever they can destroy the Tudors put a truth and expose stories and the reply underneath just

Where did people that can't go nowhere not the same you know he we deserve to go and like you know why you know you'll see the whole Saudi job advisor jobs in this is a biggest toilet needs to be and that's the very tame version of what you can see underneath that story and and there is a kind of concerned that people like Time Magazine CNN the kind of celebrating things that we should be celebrating but it but when it comes to Carnaby the response to it actually that's never really talking about and vocalised unless you're in in that world and it's pretty pretty dark and pretty bleak you know we are talking about this story because what happened in Maryland was you know where was not directly be part of the part of that issue and part of that story look at the the bombings were going on around America when all those packages are sent around America based around our attitude with the attitude of people created to the present and whether or not they real.

Lol can pushing an agenda, and that's that terrifying but isn't that the it when you think about.

Time Magazine and obviously it's ultimate audiences in American audiences and you know it.

Just got referenced about trump ultimately that's really than the line message.

I think through this award.

Isn't it? Because the whole theme of fake news a message to do a message to trump.

I think I think it's I think a message to the American public that this is trying to show endorsement for this is this isn't about indoors with a journalist.

This is about a fundamental element of democracy which is the ability to have a free press and for those in power to be held to account and that's what's being ques through all these different incidents this year, but it's Special America the language and dialect of trump is is what's giving permission for some of some of those sorts of online social media, and that's crap.

I think my point is that it's Time Magazine and it feels like Time Magazine and CNN and BBC and like no this is the kind of works the mainstream Media celebrating the mainstream Media

And you know I upset you think it's the right thing to do and and believe people should be celebrated in the world doing is absolutely exceptional I guess what I'm saying is that this desi other part of the story is that the reaction to this isn't the reaction that we have in the room which is yes, we should celebrate journey.

It's Made on amazing work and let's applaud them for the fact.

They put their lives at risk of sometimes even lost their life to expose the truth and expose kind of really nasty things going on actually the reaction from a significant proportion of people is is quite dark and leek and and I don't know who you how do we expose that how we talk about that outside because there is this tendency.

I think they like you said kind of a self-perpetuating circle where the more and more hostile a segment of the population is becoming to the media than more than Media tends to lionize itself and prayers on how you know so brave and noble there the whole profession is which you know it's true as messaging needs to be said that of see the sunset incredible work, but it does tend to further reinforce the segment of people who see.

The price is very self congratulatory in out of touch.

No signs that trump gonna settle back from the hole cutter fake news crusade.

It's it's working for him.

He can say anyone who's criticizing me to criticize because their own agenda.

Not cos it's trickling the capital that journalists are really savvy move because you know the other people they chose to feature.

You can't really do it that trump and it will tell you know Donald Trump movement.

Where is that when I think you know it's in it's also reminded that you don't have to be as super high profile journalist antagonising a massive totalitarian regime to be in danger.

You know then those generous shot by a disgruntled local person who didn't like the way they reported as a story about a legal case against him.

I'm interesting time person of the year still matters.

You know you could believe if you listen to a version of This podcast from 10 years ago goodbye now.

It would be in over having composed person of the year that mattered, but it isn't is it people are still looking to his hair.

Brands of these kinds of things without it is that really true is this really generating massive Bob what is the rate for new media equivalent of this isn't that's true, but whether this necessarily generate huge column inches and certainly reaches out to some of the people with just been talking about I mean click cleared.

It doesn't it's something that interests people like us and will interest columnist in the times of the Guardians restaurant in might mean more to you.

If someone review due in GQ but if you had a really good score on TripAdvisor even though actually the latter is the one that's going to affect your income and they're still heritage eBay for credibility to turn story and and and I think it has anything it has historical value people when they know I did it when I found out who this year's time personal year was looked at his time person of the year in and and I think that that's a big major asset at that time haven't and I think they can continue to eat to keep that tradition because they know it gets a bump in their their own brand recognition every year.

We do it we are the Donald Trump has some fake time person of the year pictures on his wall.

This is absolutely true Nottingham confirming strip Donald Trump has I think two or three time people of the year in a covers, but they're not real someone praises employees see if someone else had that as a kind of leaving party gift at Christmas day.

It will be alright wouldn't have but with him from different type my dad actually used to have the mirror never see that like you'll be mirror that said time man of the year.

So when you look into it right now.

Where is having proved his worth on the economics of Eastenders Steve I'm glad you're here because there's a football in the Press story and which I have no interest in that you can help us with which is about Raheem Sterling accusing the price of biased reporting because let me see if I get straight you posted two versions of a similar Story one of the protagonist was white one of Agnes was black and he's a look at the treatment or black.

Call is by the national press the tabloid really versus white football is what did he posted and did you have a point where he is probably the most prominent young black footballer in Britain today? He is he is a superstar as well on his way to be a world superstar.

He is a fantastic player in the top team in the country potentially want to talk teams in Europe size is a fantastic player and he has received.

I think a lot of what's driven.

It is actually I'm not just the press but he's received a lot of abuse within stadiums racist abuse and I think he's highlighted a really valid point.

I thought was interesting the reaction of the the head of the Duelist Unilever was will come onto the minute but really I think the point is raising is unconscious bias.

It was basically to to store is one of the black pirate start his career who bought house for his mum and the article use language to suggest that this was it was a bit crafts and he shouldn't be doing this because it's only to start his career widest.

How much money and look at these young black players at kind of splash the cash as soon as I get opportunity to have it obviously insinuation literally so bad, but it wasn't there and then the in and then why didn't say you didn't mention air rifle or but but it kind of certainly certainly suggested that what they were doing was was not appropriate in the mail Online view of how people should be saving the money and then there wasn't another story which is pretty much exactly the same which was a young White footballer who had a game start his career who had bought house with Mum it was very much much more admirational headline young players.

Just been signed any bought a house for his mum is not great, but is it right that that distinction was made because one was black mum was why do you think will I think that this is so this is when I think it's interesting about the insights of the reactions that we got the way to Reading sting reactions when was from A Summer Place senior at the PFA the Professional Footballers Association who who who was black and said the the

To hear is there not on there not enough influential black leaders at the top of football clubs and at the top of football journalism and therefore that informs obviously the lens through which you view things and the other interesting reaction was from the guy who heads up.

I think the sports writers Association or something like that who pays you said what is no football writers who are races.

They would never intentionally be racist which I'm sure it's also true, but the point is this is why it's her uncle just biased because it's about the lens through which YouView something and if you are a white person coming from a middle-class background use you things in a different way if you come from of a different background with that Through Diversity or class today mail Online writer who wrote the story with Anthony Joseph who is an Asian Scottish man and he says he has received racist abuse and death rates from people who are offended by what was the same as his racist reporting.

I'm so that's another kind of odd later to the whole song about unconscious bias.

He follows a formula when he writes his article soda you the one Miller in the mail Online is always and always has been regardless of who their reporting on what their first years.

How much is the house that they live in and what is there ethnic background Daily Mail article remember when Amy Winehouse died you know it was Winehouse, who lived in a 4 million lb Camden Town House by the engine of Winehouse is the daughter of a Jewish cab driver.

That's how the day it's not just about you know it's not just about the money.

I was he the Daily Mail has always had a very strange Korean interest in how much many people have them what they're doing with it.

It's to me.

It's about and I say to me but you know what you see right isn't colour write about a lot of times.

It's about good faith in your sumption of good faith, and that's just one of them one of the things that non-white people are often not recorded in the Press you know when it's a White footballer or he's bought this house his mum is not nice thing to do when it's a black footballer.

You know it's playing into the stereotyping.

He's a young black man, where did you get you know that the underlying stop?

He shouldn't have all this money.

He doesn't really deserve it and look in flashing it in your face reader.

You know that he has all this money.

It's all about that to me anyway.

It just seems like it's all about the Assumption of good faith and that's especially black people are not afforded in the Press very often completely different League to someone really ask takeaways from Nigeria look at welly.

I mean I'm not really in sterling fortunately.

Yes, I can't speak for him, but I don't think the attitude towards unconscious bias is so if you see a black footballer doing well and you're you're from a different you support a different club when you look to put him off then you're throwing at the time you when you look Spytty off.

What you go to this is racist because that's that's what you know we'll push up certain button and and and that's what happened this instance and we went from there.

What do you think of interesting about this story is how?

Burning his reacted to Italy he went to Instagram to Post articles and make a point and actually the tone that he's using a fact that he was kind of like it's smiling officer you know what this is just because you have to deal with the night when you like it or not.

That's how it work now.

I think about it.

If you not even a few years ago you think about what happened with Beckham when he put his leg up and he was kind of vilified was all of the press.

He had no way to respond to that in his own voice in its own right and and sterling his very much taken to his own platform and put across his own point in his own way doesn't even journalist.

He doesn't need to go to the Daily Mail and do a sit-down interview and kind of like you know what is you across you can do it goes straight to his fans in and create his whirlwind of a response that I think is a really positive things so it's a good on him.

I say ok.

We'll be back with some more news in brief after this.

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Come to learn more from somebody news in brief nail Steve Rebekah and Freya still with me and we learnt this week that the government bought £100,000 worth of Pro deal Facebook ads in the week leading up to the scheduled date that never happened in the House of Commons have you seen how much of our money was spent on? What sorry there's a £100000 of money has been spent on social media advert and I seen.

What to do my homework login to Twitter 18 to see Theresa May's plan for a the best brexit whenever it is a bit been a lot of you can attend second adverts that a focus on different parts of her deal.

It's curious about why she's done all her life why her team have done it and it seems to me to suggest that she's trying to influence the public opinion about her deal yet.

It's the votes in Parliament she needs to get through the wind and it's nots nots bedtime lobbying her fellow conservative members there more or even though the opposite of public about it, and let's be honest Facebook ads and social Media Router at the moment some of the most persuasive advert advertising that you can do that.

Could then move public opinion into her favour and and how MPs in the opposition would have to follow suit let me the strategy actually makes sense doesn't Rebecca it's the same strategy for her going on there Today programme involve social media but fundamentally.

Is she needs to get the public on board and kind of go down the most traditional root? There is really interest politics which is the public lobby their own MPs and their MPs then you know reflect that in what they do in Parliament she certainly hasn't got very appealing to her and peas directly seem to work for the vote of confidence.

Didn't it? Actually a lot of MPs did say you know I got inbox heaving with people supporting the prime minister because people basically felt sorry for her in that instance.

I guess that's the sort of depression which is trying to fight between people who are seeing these ads on their social media and the Sword of people who 10 letters to the MP's but should be criticizing the government for using Facebook ads Steve when we've seen that.

It's worked very successfully for government all around the world should just be part of the modern Media talking to communicate a message.

This has to be part of the plan and also one of the criticisms around the remain campaign Originals Hayley got outmaneuvered by the leave campaign to a much much smarter in the use of social media so is completely valid.

There's a different question of course about.

Weather what she's doing currently with Facebook would have any impact in terms of what's just being described, but it's actually a much more sensible approach.

I would save and this only going on LBC in the Today programme which which event editorialize right so when when she goes to social media and place across her vision for the plan is that it is laid out.

It's the way that she sees it and it's not editorialize dryer.

You know when editor of a newspaper Arora ballroom TV programme which I think is essential because actually this this whole world become so toxic that everyone is going to put in their own bias on on whether there but leave campaign to remain campaigners, so she needs to communicate while she's in this because I actually don't think the public know or for that matter care the curious thing about it and almost that stupid thing about it is all this is doing an adding more fuel to the second referendum fire like you know if you're going to appeal to the public about your deal then the most intelligent thing to therefore did the obvious conclusion I draw from there is go to the public and say whether or not they like the deal.

When you when you got to the end of that and she's not willing to do that so so it does feel like this maybe and maybe I'm reading too much into him being a bit too optimistic for my own political viewpoint, but this may be a movement towards getting that people's vote away because she's appealing directly to the people and not her an MPs it's interesting tonally Rebecca as well.

I have I know it's the government rather than Conservative Party technically funding these ads but how the domain operation has harnessed sort of Internet language in in these videos if you look at them instead of 10 things you didn't know about brexit or no one minute on how Scotland is going to be impacted by Theresa May's brexit deal and she's not in it at all.

It's a snappy video with lots of captions and graphics it you could have been untrue.

It was done by a clever advertising agency.

It's a world away.

Is it from web Cameron absolutely on a tremendous amount of money has been spent in across the political spectrum on trying to you know appeal to that crucial that crucial and Facebook especially Facebook audience and Twitter as well.

The thing is it's all just a bit surface.

Isn't it? Doesn't it that I don't know that it does work if you click on any of those if you click on any promoted tweets if you click on any official to eat some the Conservative Party so there at the closest underneath say you know your murdering disabled people you don't it's like I don't think I think that social media can only work so far there has to be a certain amount of Goodwill to start with and I don't think that the Tory Party grassroots are especially active short replies bonfire at the moment.

I'm so Mahmoud Ahmadinejad species likely it was become a kind of a meme on Twitter you get tweeting about American sports teams and little funny comments on about how much he wants to spread peace and love and his travels and it kind of stuff that ironic but now it seems to be kind.

Taking off and yes, I kind of redeem himself in the eyes of many of his own countrymen doing right now to tip ok.

Let's talk podcast Sam New York Times this week noted the podcast are getting news year since the time design podcast The Daily launch year ago the number of Daily Podcast has Trevor Steve you're very much at this cold face you don't do a Daily Podcast they do you do not do they forecast do you think there is mileage in competitors to the daily? There's only so many Daily Podcast 1 canvas into I like what is Declan come in the evidence.

Is there that was used in The Guardian you seeing radio for some other newspapers in America a launching another News UK investing really heavily podcast and I'm sure what we'll have daily plans coming out next year and CBC

And barzagli has gone back into Radio 4 The now sending it back to radio station to the radio show the cost a lot of money to this thing is also disgusting, but it's very well produced very well made the other thing that I think is really driving the the the daily ESK element of podcasting is smart speakers because obviously if you're creating daily content and you are smart speaker in the house.

You are immediately upon a competitive level with the existing radio stations and that means there's a whole audience for you to potentially go and grab and the same obviously with in car as well.

So if your news organisation creating data content means you're taking the fight to the radio station to the to the audio professionals if you like rather than allowing them to own that share of here and that and that listening Time Rebecca do you listen to daily audio news briefing? No, I don't I could lie and say I did but I don't actually but then I do work in use so I feel like I know as much as I need to know if not more on a Daystate

I think it's it's really tapping into bits quite a bit of serendipity really because you know podcasting has been on the up for you know the past few years.

You know quite steeply but it's come along at a time as well.

Where people think are increasing you feeling quite overwhelmed by the amount of the news going on a feeling like it is hard to keep up with what's going on in so I think it's something that you can digest on your morning commute to work etc while doing other things while walking around the house getting dressed, but I think there's like there's a huge appetite for that and the Daily Podcast hebridean come into their own at that crucial time.

Was you thinking about a lot of the daily content has come out so far as they tend to be less digest and just wrap ups of the news and they said it would people like the New York Times or the guard number BBC their deep diving into a particular story and giving it's kind of like they're the sort of the Long read articles economist who should have give you some really shrewd observations around the story so from that perspective.

I know that's also quite smok is not necessary looking to replace.

The fact that you might quit hear the headlines on the radio on the TV or have a quick look at your newspaper.

Please give you that further layer that you might only normally pick up on the weekend when you dive into a newspaper have a bit more time to digest something replacing for as traditional Media in people's lives or is it and additional is it a bolt on? It's mine, so I listen to Up first everyday from Tokyo mmpr I listen to the daily which I think is a day should you agree with that? There's a lot of Picasso do deep dive but I have finding increasingly that something like up first is it is useful to give you the headlines in in a very particular way when you want to press play.

You're not waiting for 8 a.m.

When did but when a bullet in happens.

You press play when you're ready to press play and and and that's what makes that really compelling I struggle to find a British version of Up first and I don't think there's any we've cracked it yet.

I think the BBC lean too much towards today show and go well with you today show list of K-pop there, but the interview in that then put on a podcast for you and I think very much this it's time for a a good headline.

15 minutes peace in the morning and put up a 2 Reasons one, because I think commute the commuter hour is becoming more and more essential.

It's been almost becoming prime times particularly for podcasts and and capture from video games and social content and then we're seeing that commuter our both to and from work becoming more and more important and and I don't know what it is today show anymore I don't read the papers.

You know it's a hard thing.

I'm I'm looking at Twitter on my credit.

I'm looking at st.

And I'm listen to podcast so I do think that that's where the tide is is turning and I think I think it's fascinating the challenge that we have now is that it's over saturated and for me it's all about discovery.

So when she was talking about smart speakers.

You are absolutely right about speaker Tim to give you that News Bulletin that you want and you may not change it for a very long time.

I think there are too many of these now when we need to figure out a better way of doing Discovery otherwise they're all gonna go to the word the blogs some of this is London Metropolitan bubble stuff there, isn't it that it was all very well for us to say when we do our sort of underground journeys, and we download stuff and we're on The Intern

The time that we might be changing our listing times, but if you're Theresa May Jeremy Corbyn and you want to reach the public you still going to go on the Today programme on Good Morning Britain you're not anything Guardians daily newspaper cutting landscape is quite fractured in that sense.

You know there's no Today programme of podcasts.

You know be difficult thing is that almost everyone I know and they're not just all metropolitan elite volano listens to listen to some podcast but not many of them listen to the same podcast it's quite hard to capture the market in that sense.

When is it is true that up until now listening is dominated in the UK in the Southeast it is affluent it is abc1 it's very 15:35 at starting to break down now.

I'm however.

That's a very similar pattern to we saw with with the take-up of MS Corden providers like Netflix and Amazon Prime and I think is real parallels in the pattern of behaviour and you see this in the podcast stats that once once people start consuming podcast they very quickly consume.

Someone podcast because they start into the Habit of on-demand listening and so we are starting to see that and I'm suing a cost headquarters now and they are the experts on the stats.

We're starting to see this spread out beyond the Southeast now.

I'm sad.

I am not sure I do think the market is saturated.

There's a lot of constantly on you actually right discoverability.

Is is a is a real issue for podcasting but only depending on which server you look at only between about 15 and 20% of the country, consuming podcast so that's a huge market.

That is still to come to this to this art form and those people who are giving their podcast delivered to their ears as of now Steve might be going personalised ads as you mention.

We are sitting in Outcasts studios at the moment which are very there an upgrade clearly what they have before we go that far though.

They're pretty and a cast the podcast network have now partnered with a million ads to combine Advertiser messaging with data like the weather time of day location show name show category or device type 2 survey personalised ads to listeners.

What does that actually mean so what it means?

Supersmart and actually they been doing this for radio for a few years now, but it basically means that an ad can be absolute it to you.

So it might be that able to drop in your name in into an add all your location.

So you know it might say that if you're passing the McDonald's in Woking in the next five minutes because they know you live in Woking but if I live in Lincolnshire I get a different name dropped in that sort of level of personalization that obviously has to relating to the data.

That's coming the other way but from an advertisers perspective that that that does not really interesting possibilities.

It was something to be contacted you can stop think about these things same terms of whether variations or maybe local news all that sort of thing but but there because only at the point when you download the show isn't it? So I mean I might be downloading the show at my Nan's house in Glasgow and then get on a plane and listen to it at Luton that because they have no relevance to me anymore.

Yeah, but would look I don't know the technicalities about the location.

You know how specific that can be but if they

Have data on who you are or how old you are for instance if they have your name then it is possible to drop your name into the like Facebook campaigns before audio Sophie Dunlop who who started this company that she friend of mine and I have and he has she showed me this tech a few years ago when he left global and and started this up, so when I read the story of my life, so you know for disclosure.

He is a friend of mine.

This might sound a bit like a piece out and only his version of this download will have this feeling a little bit.

There's no doubt about it.

It's a little bit creepy because I I think in the kind of whole Facebook world of you being served now that you think that Instagram has got the microphone on a listening to what you're saying but actually they just incredibly good of going you two people on the same Wi-Fi network and you know go to st.

Coffee shop everyday if they try to suggest you as a friend when that starts happening it kind of freaks you out slightly if your name if you get advert with your name in it and you've got your headphones on it's going to freak you out when it first starts happening will be interesting.

See what the audience and take this is because it it might start screen with people's head for your attention, but he suspected that said to you in your ears.

Why can you listening to a piece of audio podcast you drift off slightly and suddenly if you hear an advert that so deep be tailored to you if I could not hear you like your name being alone and hearing the door creaked open.

He said it's terrifying but we said very similar things when Facebook targeted advertising first sight happily, but this is like Dale Winton talking to rent in Hayes town because we're going hard with the life situation, but I think one person that makes so much sense because not that long does a study that found that podcast listeners are far more engaged with advertising uses of other you know kinds of Media so it.

It works well in that sense of people are already engaged also I mean.

I think about people's names, but think about it on a product level they know that you're interested in in a vinyl electronics furman.

I know you're in Stanground Taylor's but but now he's interested in buying a DAB radio.

It means I can drop a different thing in the advert with a different deal listening station Facebook and and Instagram and Google be doing this is how their business models exist you know that's why they got so big is because they're serving advert that the user may actually want um yeah.

There is a kind of creepy level 2B cancer again.

You can say the same thing about Instagram you can say the same thing about Theresa May spending all his money on under on top of the advertising as well.

This is just a smart way of putting that into podcast out what I do.

Think is interesting is that I feel that the most engaging podcast ads are ones that are read by the hosts and nose is always the ones that works most effectively in the house is not going to record 1200 variation get paid.

That is the podcast generates £1,000 in income a month makers which is nice, but that's a person.

Can you give me Direct, and stay here going to get there, but I think mine is off you PPV UK staff there are wondering how badly they Gonna suffer now after the companies announced two-and-a-half thousand net job losses across the International Business what's going on at wpp right now.

What's going on here is a reevaluation of the entire business post and Martin Sorrell which is inevitable which is inevitable was it coming any way and is that part of the reason he left it was potentially coming and so part of this is bringing together a number of the different agencies.

So you know amalgamating differences together.

It's kind of upsy sensible to be looking at your when you look at what they've announced.

They've they've said them.

Charities jobs already back office in terms of finance and he would you get in the more you bring different agencies together under One Roof then clearly you can start to make those sorts of savings am I Feel lyrics sorry for wpp in the sense of I think they've kind of setting outlander kind of become the little boy little bit in the past the past few few months because obviously everybody loves to see the Giant full right and for such a long time.

They have dominated Headland they were the number one Holding Company they're not at the moment and and so I think a lot of people were quite enjoyed giving them a kicking massive.

They won't Rebecca I mean you not lose to Angel some stuff from company by Debbie.

You probably don't really notice it 34000 3 3000 officers and say that kind of is part of the problem as well.

It is such an enormous unwieldy company that has a has steaks and involvement in tons of things beyond traditional advertising and they're just there trains annihilate down to think it's

Probably a pretty wife me ok.

There is just time for a media quiz this week.

It's ones to watch 2019.

I got three questions about TV shows coming onto our screens in the new gear LU3 need to do is identify the person at the centre of each show when you know the answer buzzing with your name's Steve you're saying Steinbeck you're saying ok? Let's go? The one who takes over hosting duties from David Dimbleby on the BBC's flagship political debate Steve all started to have finished on the BBC's flagship political debate show Question Time Fiona Bruce correct Fiona Bruce who also did yeah, it's going to take over from Dimbleby a good choice.

Do you think

Pasty I'm not I'm not joking.

I would have liked maybe to see someone who's got a bit more personality which I think is what day will be is always had brilliantly and they're out of a plenty of great options.

There are however you can't deny.

She has authority and respect probably from the politicians as well.

Give up I don't use or Antiques Roadshow so she is going to be pretty knackered, but the timer gets to have more personality than she's allowed to show at the news at 10 that I mean, that's what she's never been allowed to do anything much personality.

That's the thing is already so many personalities computing there someone that does have to retain like at some level of sanity to keep all under control you bringing.

I think sometimes you with the BBC they feel like if you have a news person doing another new show you just kind of you know I know she is in that kind of our heritage is by putting on a thing.

What the Antiques Roadshow and you know she's been doing more and more of that can a mainstream start it means that she becomes a a mainstream faced.

It's not just a new face and I think that that's what you're trying to pull off her ok, to which flamboyant figure brings their hit Netflix show to BBC3 next year I've started to finish and I just did Rebecca yes correct.

Can I point of order yes, not hit Netflix show that a hip VH1 show ok? It is only viewable here on Netflix movie.

I'll be surprised if it is but that is that is one of those shows that turned VH1 around forever hasn't it in America it has the history of rupaul's drag race anybody going for an amazing friend and also they try to bring over your feet when did Jonathan Ross was involved in trying to bring it over here for a little while and then any is it is an incredible show but it's incredible because it's one of those need cable shows.

Grown and grown and grown and now it's just a complete.

I probably because of Netflix and that help kind of really popularize it but it's always been a fascinating show to watch as a as a media, can it like Monday or Insider but it is redefinition process? What's special about you, but it's one of those that you couldn't really watching the UK so unless you're really into like TV formats and cared about how they were made and different ideas about their you didn't really come across it and it's only till Netflix of a lot of like the British Public came across that and we started seeing him more and more over here people we don't know this but I don't think that maybe when you who RuPaul was before that show where it is a massive massive star in the US and this was a big vehicle for a but it was it was quite a small cable show when it's and what's quite interesting about it is as always retain that feeling that it's quite small and gorillas and it has huge production values that you would see from other reality shows ok.

He is question number three this could end up with.

Tiso maybe fries don't answer this for me complicated which Media Mogul is the focus of a three-part documentary to air on BBC Two in the new year Parade ruined your game just try to fix it for me to Mr Murdoch it is it is Rupert Murdoch a tabloid Empire it will Air on BBC Two series release date has yet to be confirmed and covers the period from 1997 to 2012 in currently forensic detail.

Will you be watching Rebecca I want to see a separate miniseries you doing opus.

No, they are not be watching because it's made by the same people who made the series about a sad that was on the only issue on BBC2 which if you haven't seen it.

I'm sure it's still on the iPlayer was absolutely brilliant and wasn't very much going to take the same lines.

I think I would definitely be.

Highbury this is a fascinating story.

It's it's made even more fascinated by the fact that it's on the BBC and so you can imagine that Murdoch's only watching and seeing how the BBC One of Us Akon him.

I think that there's you can't get away from that.

I hope that they don't try and sugarcoat that the only be able to use is doing a show about the murdochs on the BBC says something in its own right and that should be the headliner this and I think there's a lot of scope for on the Murdoch story isn't that like it's so often presented as the back of my thing and because news international did some terrible things phone akina the rest of it.

That's become the story but I'm in here is a man who you know frankly is going to die soon when those obituaries come out.

I think it'll be quite hard to find people to speak in his favour about closing down of the print unions and all this stuff in inventing the sun, but I mean he has a huge illustrious massive Media contribution that is also plenty of people who say he save the TV industry was he was a pirate in TV in terms of really revolutionizing that if they take the same line they took with the z-series then what was infant.

About that was it was it was very much looking at the person signs and what led to the motivations behind this man and anos tienes ads case how the guy who was a sort of a doctor in London become a brutal dictator and and what was in his background that leads to that and if they follow I'm not saying Dr Bridget Riley has incredible ambition and has a maintain that for so many years.

I think they're brilliant Siri what could be more fascinating is the outcome of the media quiz it is a one older or credible no snow around it.

I haven't Strongbow 4 to take my thanks to Forres Osmond Steve Ackerman and Rebecca gillie.

If you like what we're up to here on the media podcast and you enjoy the feeling of giving people money then consider taking out of voluntary subscription to The Show uni is Christmas time.

ITV Media podcast / donate and selected amount to keep us going all year round remember you catch up with all previous episodes is like the day be today if you can listen anytime and you can get episodes as soon as they're released by subscribing free on our website via Media podcast Bananaman the producer Rebecca Grizedale sharing the median podcast PPM production you back in the new year and happy holidays.

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