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Read this: #105 - I’m a Brexit Debate, Get Me On TV - The Media Podcast with Olly Mann

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#105 - I’m a Brexit Debate, Get Me On …



Hello and welcome to the media podcast I'm only man on today's show could the I'm a Celebrity grand final work as a meal warm up to the brexit Head to heads we discuss the many ways broadcast is makemake the political debate palatable to the Great British Public also why freelancers in radio may Force a change in pay how Mark Zuckerberg to you.

Got a little bit worse and why another crop three sheets bit the bullet plus we took Netflix and the Giant Peach and finally in the media quiz we test our pond its knowledge of the lighter stories of the week.

It's all to come in today.

Show me today is broadcasting consultant and long-standing mediapad contributor Paul Robinson Pool where have you landed from today around the corner from Golden Square long way Como passport require to come on where have you been in the States last week as in Spain the week before that I'm going to Germany next week, but nowhere tour of the gender knot podcast.

Hassan journalist Naz tavakoli fire hello guys welcome back, what have you been up to today? I was around the corner as well.

So I've also just popped over do it making a documentary about a heavy traffic to share corruption get this is your unwinding then from gossip about media.com straight in with the lightest of all story is the brexit political debate Theresa May wants the BBC proposal to host her brexit TV debate but the Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn wants the Debate to air directly before the I'm a Celebrity finale on ITV and at the time of recording nothing is sorted and Paul what do you think would be the point really of this debate? I don't get it because in a general election the public of deciding the public of already decided well.

I suppose that one thing is say about brexit.

I think is that possibly people are not as well informed.

They should be in.

Videos of the last 2 years maybe they started to realise what the issues are the time the referendum took place I suspect the most people didn't really know what they were voting for and actually was a problem.

So if this debate can shed some light and can help people understand what the issues are because we're now hurtling towards this in March that would be a good thing.

I think the issue of course is weather in a Corbin vs.

Made the right casting but I'm also pretty for me is I hope we can have a good moderator who insures there's proper debate.

I think some of these TV debates in the past and characterized by really extremely poor sharing streamable moderation doing that people shouting at each other and there's no real debate about the facts.

So that would be my hope in terms of the the the choice of BBC or iTV the idea of going after or before I'm a celebrity's really smarter me 14 million viewers is a lot of people in in this year's been record audiences.

I think the one thing that may be Jeremy Corbyn doesn't understand is it going before I'm a Celebrity doesn't guarantee a big audience so

You might want to go after I'm a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here to help people understand the issue a brexit theme challenge in the jungle.

I think all things really cynical uncovered part because it isn't it now isn't really the time for a debate right everyone voted on it and everyone so freaking out about what's going to happen in March so little to come back to my original question which is what's the point for the audience? I mean you watch it then give their view but unless you're actually about to vote for one of the other and the general election.

So what is up to the parliamentarians to decide anyway whether the plan goes through and I literally don't understand what the thinking is behind it.

Could I think it's different Paul I get your point about people are confused.

I don't really know what's going on that format.

You would want a couple of good interviewers to sit down the Theresa May or a few others and be like you now to see what's going on with her and Colburn I don't know I think it's a really different white casting point you bring up for the alternative.

I think the BBC proposal as you would x

BBC is a more pluralistic, let's get Nicola Sturgeon on as well.

You know let's talk to the Green Party the public don't want that do they not really because actually to be honest that mean they're not really gonna care.

What Nicola Sturgeon has to say I love you.

Got to live in Scotland you know so that I don't really is the answer.

I mean ultimately I think the viewing figures for this is going to be very disappointing cos I think most people are now jaded.

You know tired want to get on with it whatever they've you about whether we remain or or or we don't you know the decisions been made.

It's now about what's the best way of making this work and and ultimately debate doesn't help that so I think it'd be very interesting to know you know what the details of the May proposal are and what that might lead to in terms of how we exit.

I think it's important to understand to that and exit without a deal is going to be worse for the country and that something I think that needs to be taken into account.

There's like game playing going on in Out game playing in the commons at game playing by other nations.

You know the the French ones are fishing write this.

Spanish want to take to Broughton over taking advantage of this may be able to witness for the UK what matters now.

Is that we get on with it and whatever the outcome you know we try and preserve the strength of the economy.

We try and preserve jobs and we then move forward as a strong nation broadcasters are keen to buy for their channel to be the one that gets the Host it.

Do you think that's right now? What do you think actually you know if you were running channel for you to find me within our business.

I don't know there's anything wrong with what they're doing like I can see why they want to buy for that accept you what I suspect that you know if I'm a Celebrity final gets 14 million which is probably will do this debate will get for 5 million actually fry TV that's a financial hit because probably the show that would have been there other than debate would have a much bigger audience.

So they can take a financial loss on the appetizers.

We know the Theresa May in particular does not give good sound bite like you'll be seen enough times now, but this will not be compelling television the same things again and again on brexit.

are the people who you know depending on how you approach the political question cause the issue in the first place your Nigel Farage is compelling on brexit Boris Johnson Jacob Rees mogg Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn it's going to be quite boring so I'm afraid it will be ok let's move from telly to print and publishers reach claim the Old door-to-door model of print distribution is no longer viable they've closed the 88 year old free local title the Solihull news and we don't use to be free did it this mod is it was a painful that was a Great White Hope and now it's closing because they just can't get you didn't really do much of the Oval distribution go free did not like in London Evening Standard doubled its circulation when it went free and so they are able to charge more for the advertising and make it work but Solihull on a big enough market the advertisers on there so it the models not working so there is no alternative and so now it's going to be just a local edition of the Birmingham mail for Solihull which is the only way they can give some to love local news in print to Solihull

This is a subject we can talk about on this show if you go back to the Guardian days now this for 15 years now that Yahoo national Media to move away from prints out of course local Media is too so no Surprises here and yet you sort of thing with three sheets.

They had been moved glimmers of Hope in London in particular evening Standard like you said Paul than this week's shortlist closed as well.

Not really was one of the great successes.

You know half a million copies distributed magazine vert closing to stylist which is by the same company and is focused on women they seem to be doing doing really well, so I wonder what about says about you know print white working amongst women and not be able to market the advertising Market from male publications has absolutely climbed.

You know and and so style little works.

It's female skin is more advertising for female sku product or people still want to buy beer and shaving products and women still want to buy makeup what difference does it make because the way the plans work is they perceive men or Elsewhere and ID rather?

Get them online with a field is greater accountability and then a print medium I have to say I sometimes pick up the stylist and I had dismissed it for a while as like you know just shoes and bags of whatever I can't believe I just giving Radio 2 Pick that but as well, but that is the case with advertising market.

Isn't it? They do have really good article and I don't know I don't know I have been surprised by it like you know when you're on the bath and you've got a short commute and you let you know this is actually I often I've taken the stylus with me read that is something that isn't it go back 10 years ago and people were already metro on the tube in London now you look around and they're listening to podcasts or they're eating their idevice is looking at the news that when they are remember the commuter course is only really in big cities in it might be in Birmingham in Manchester in London it's not in the most people commute is not an issue.

So there's no commute times.

It just doesn't exist as a reading opportunity and it is Sue Johnston Press story this week to which was sold to jpi which faces the management.

I'm back the title.

This is the company that runs The Scotsman in the eye exactly safe for the moment, but all they really done is take away the Debt so there was death of over 200 million that debt is now gone away, but the real issue is ok.

Yes, they have now got rid of that so operational death but can they make money on those titles I suspect this is a short-term fix and we'll be on this very podcast In The Years Time saying this is working either and now these titles and thread the fundamental thing is these publications and Leicester in major markets do not make money because the advertisers will not support them and that trend is going to continue and it's only going to get worse I mean the guy is a particular example again bit like metro of something that felt revolutionary when it came out because in paper form.

It was a bit like the internet, but it seems to be people on our preferring to just look at look at a matrix a visual stories when you have Twitter on your veins have been doing that and that works because you know magazines that you want to look.

Something beautiful on your coffee table that you're going to flick through you know for several days a lot of them are beautiful stylized and there's a lot are Direction where is I don't know your daily news.

I don't feel like everyone is now got a mobile connected device and so having everything aggregated in one place is so much easier having lots of different ways of sorting it.

So why would you do that? You know and putting up with those ads that's interesting thing you just said about you know even the advertising being beautifully said about direct if that's true.

Isn't it? I'll read Esquire magazine and the first half of the magazine is odds for Dolce and Gabbana and Louis Vuitton and watches on never go for but I don't mind because they're beautiful in their own right sometimes.

I flick through them to get free articles, but they don't get in the way in the same way there and had for a black Friday promotion of Carphone Warehouse does when I'm trying to read the Guardian is different different actually there are many magazines that in the past.

I have specifically brought because I've liked the Earth I know that sounds a cold within to say but you know if you're like a special if you want a visual things you know you're like I've just bought I don't know interview.

Whatever half of that is abs and they look like works of art.

So there are some publications where you might even just buy them because you're you're buying like a beautiful visual document that used to be the secret listings magazines as well wasn't it is actually buy time out because you look at all the theatre posters and stuff.

You're absolutely that again is much better served online so ok.

We learnt to David Mitchell advertising now accounts for 60% of all ads spend is going to go from there, but was quite interesting Paul radio expected to secure the highest expected to secure the second highest band in 2019.

Is is that a surprise not really because radio still got amazing reach an amazing audience in I mean the total number of hours consumed by radio almost the same as those consumed by video and by video include television so no radios ability to set up with stand all of this change is quite extraordinary this something about radio in the audio medium that keeps it connected to consumers whilst you the rest of the

Markets in Tamworth outdoor printer always traditional Media I typing even television struggling of course because the pain is moving to online video so radius got this sort of relationship with consumers that somehow seems to transcend all this digital disruption accept like to keep hearing the same as I mean, where is on telly I see a wide variety of ads.

I listen to LBC your magic.

I hear literally the same final 612 boots Jaguar radiator wide reach, but you also want to get lots of chances to see that and what radio diary t002 here so if you have a radio campaign the idea is to reinforce that message so it's high repetition so you seen it on the TV you seen the images you might then recorded when you hear the radio sport because you've actually making connection but radius job is to give that a 2-day repeat of that message and that's what radio does really really.

That's why you get a smaller number of the same ads but it was so great.

Why wouldn't wider number of companies want to have a title the radio.

That's what I understand because radios not trendy in Harton and sexy you know that's the problem is not perceived as such there is no continues to do so even though I mean I've been in radio for my whole career and when I started I was like this is the end no one's going to be interested in this, but it's it is really interesting just that feeling of got a friend in the room with me what I'm doing but I think you're completely right and that's the thing no internet on your personal.

It's more than in a more relationship.

Isn't it? That's what keeps radio life.

You know it is that's of intimacy and personal podcast 2 per pod costume or informal Match Attax like your mate of your friend.

Something special about that chicken with audio.

Let's talk about the audio production Awards ride review there no unfortunately someone less exotic well.

I was there at the very exotic BFI on the Southbank and it had you been there you of course would have been talking about the presenter of the podcast producer of the Year categories.

You think it was good that the reason actually but I said yes, I'd like to present an award.

There is because I wanted a free ticket because it's a good it's genuinely a fun party wasn't nominated I wanted to be there in that says something about her any awards ceremony.

I think it's the only one in the radio Canada this is generally found to be there and I think as well.

You know if you work in audio.

You know that there's always a very often produces behind the scenes that are kind of overlooked or ignored someone wins an award the presenter goes up and picked it up.

You know and it the ipa's these are the people who make the shows the people in The Rosary supportive of that they're not necessary people get paid that well.

It's a really nice V

Movies which TV the craft people the production teams they do get recognising radio somehow is different I was really pleased to see why is good and and something else win Uno mean.

I remember when wisebuddah starting with my goodies Radio 1 DJ forms wise Buddah 11-letter indeed of the Year India good year for me his own company and Mark is some really built let him to the amazing company and I'm just so pleased that all that work by that teams paid up there there a great company and simile with jazza an otter Steve Ackerman who runs something else another great indie.

You know to really strong company British companies doing great audio so I think it's eczema recognise nose really pleased to see it, but it is possibly disguises the fact that for many true Indies that aren't owned by bigger groups.

They don't employ as many people as wise be doing something else those are kind of the two biggest got a lot of indices literally still someone in their laptop in my house and it's tough out there surely.

They started as nothing you know mean I didn't have a presentation.

I'm just saying maybe give the false impression of what the industry's really like possibly.

I think sometimes it's too small go for laptops in his bedroom that comes up with the best ideas and a lot of the speeches and I was there like I say the time was set from the first person who won an award and forgive me.

I can't remember who they were what it was for now, but he mentioned straight away and they carried on throughout the evening people were talking about the pay for freelancers now as we feeling that online after is falling down it got quite heaters as well mostly freelancers feeling like they couldn't be open about pay not been great because that might shutter doors which is it is a dilemma freelancers often having a lot of industries and by think because especially audio is really booming right now.

Maybe there is the impression from outsiders that there's a lot of money here and the Producers Eleanor McDowall and Heidi pet are trying to standardise an improved a rates in radio by creating a new production rate card.

What do you make of that as an incentive to the idea is $3 to say th?

What is this is anonymously what I get paid for the kind of work? I do so that people know what the benchmark should be I think it's a great idea so difficult to talk about generally even if you're like an employee and you know that a lot of your colleagues are probably going to something similar to you and so if you're a freelancer and you're dealing with a range of different companies who can be a real loss and I think that's a great idea website survey poll it lets you specify what kind of job you do so for example.

I'm a full-time producer and audio or I just produce one show that it doesn't really count for your experience and then you take a box saying whether you earn under £100 in the numerous categories up to implausibly over £1,000 for hard to imagine this.

I'm not sure that data in a way is that helpfulness you know who the person is let you know why they're being paid that much money know it's a bit like this closure of the BBC presenter salaries and only gives you a very sort of top-level view.

It doesn't really explodes experience or you know maybe they do.

Different jobs other jobs at Factor into it for a relationship with a talent I mean I see what you should not do is have you been exploiting people and so I think if there are people doing that it's right that we should expose that and make sure people paid fairly.

You know on the other hand of course people only be paid what they can be thought to be paid based on the revenue that comes in and it's not huge amount of money, but all see we don't want even exploiting Talent so it's important thing that there's a reasonable level of disclosure, but ultimately it's give me down to those companies and you know if you don't like it, then you gonna have to go somewhere else.

I'm afraid that may be the ultimate to actually have to take but isn't the truth about audio, but it's actually pretty cheap to do that if you if you want to do audio to play like we are now three people sitting room 3 microphones plugs into it.

You know we could do this for absolutely nothing and we doing it you know for very little but we could if we were being sponsored by brands, are we have episodes and people have no why?

No idea, what is made when you say cheaply I don't know if your factoring and time if you want to make a good audio products as a lot of editing and stuff because everyone says has the largest get together with 3 mics.

So you may be compared to video you've got more equipment and it's more time is more production intensive but I guess my point is if there's almost always a way of telling a client who might not know the realities of producing the show that the budget for this show needs to be a certain amount this sort of not an excuse for not paying people for working on it because they must be money there.

It's just that money is going to someone else going to the person who pitched the idea isn't it is not going to the best cheese making sure but I think the fact that people don't know how time intensive a good Audio show is is part of the problem though, because they might think x amount should be fine for this.

Where is like people in the know I like I don't have up to 12 days worth of editing because you make it sound easy but I mean this podcast.

I hopefully is well received as a good podcast but there is work that goes into Rebecca the producer has two.

Nice to guess she has to organise a running or to the side of the topics you know we look at the topics.

We think about them before the podcast you come along with your script you think about the questions as an editing after classified as a list of fairly simple podcast with just three voices add a bit more complexity and it's even more works.

I think I grew do I think it you underestimate the work that goes into making something sound like it's really simple and really easy any even the podcast I do which is kind of a chat like mostly a chat show the amount of work like you say you know sourcing guests having a bit of a scripture know what you're going to talk about then editing what sounds like a chat about it might be like an hour and a half editor down to 20 minutes.

Yeah people underestimate underestimate that and then you got so many great audio shows that are super complex will be back.

This episode of the media podcast was recorded at run BTS production house in the heart of Soho which has just celebrated its 23rd birthday in fact the party is still raging outside this room congratulations run VT the building houses 15 offline and 2 online editing Suites as well as a moody baselight grading Theatre voice-over base and swanky meeting room.

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I'll still with me and let's talk about Paul Dacre Q thunderbolt sound effect swinging Society of editors speech earlier this month targeting Alan Lord Leveson and the BBC Now review Revisited some excerpts from the speech.

What did you learn what he was getting the whole thing isn't it for a lot of people called the speech?

I sorted see what it means but it sounds like such a knob and I mean that's the truth.

Isn't it? He's just so smarmy and I'm pleasant with it, but he has a point but it's the Daily Mail isn't it? I mean that this is the day.

I mean he knows how to get a headline.

What did he say? What it mean like? That's what you said well.

I don't really want to repeat what you said what I would say is he basically below made he said the Alan rusbridger made a series of mistakes in the Guardian that it's financially mismanaged the he did the Berliner format of the Guardians basically glory project for himself and you know it was always on at tantamount to losing and that the BBC's really self-righteous and the Guardians there in House publications.

That's what he said ok like I said ok, so the right it sounds like an appointment for my don't know whether Berliner format or tablet for move make any difference and he was the only one who had the bull in a format that was an innovator in that sense was that the right decision.

I don't need any evidence of the wrong decision whether it Legend America cost to cut costs with a unique unique format should have done it.

You said that you need to take risks.

I don't exactly I need to I don't think there is evidence that decision was a negative decision for the Guardian Yotam this idea that the every newspaper is is right and every other newspaper PK regarding is is a complete bunch of idiots you know it's clearly nonsensical.

I don't think rushbury.

I said that in his book out.

She's absolutely so his interpretation.

I mean on the BBC look for BBC Dallas have a little bit of a problem being a bit pompous and being good-looking and a bit self-righteous.

Yes, it does all public broadcasters around the world do that's because the way it's found it doesn't have to run its money as money comes in excited to spend it does the BBC Germany do good stuff absolutely are there many more positive that the BBC yes, of course.

I got in his point was the Daily Mail predicted brexit understood the public mood.

He had not a single patch of that the Daily Mail on the BBC have been sparring partners for 30 years I mean.

Is the BBC did something amazing the Daily Mail would always criticize it? That's the daily mails the Daily Mail news headlines consistently digging at the BBC there's nothing new here.

It was not a surprise you do it in his leaving speech.

He wants to go with the bank.

He did it.

We're talking about it job done them.

Did sort of save it.

I got it wrong on the Enemy of the people didn't mean it said that that headline should have been bought the Telegraph put which was to be like the judges against the people or something but he took it too far enough.

Thank you for that person.

I said otherwise everybody this is what you expect.

I mean honestly.

I think it done.

Just said he's gone now.

Let's move on do you agree with daycare, but it's likely that there might be a fox style right of centre news network yet to establish itself in British culture perhaps because I hate that sort of missing from a market because it doesn't allow it basically but then the argument is well.

You've got RTE so why not have a right-wing version of that.

To get round the rules yeah, I mean I don't think that the regulation is going to change permit.

It's in that sense is a mute point is there a demand for it, they might be but I don't give me a commercially viable product.

I don't think we're the same as the US and if you join a parallel with Fox News in US I don't think there's Napa tight for that sort of journalism in this country in any large degree.

I just don't think it's going to happen.

I don't think it's going to be allowed to happen and I don't think there's actually real editorial demand for it is clear speech Radio 4 controllers think that the way to get listeners is to drift right of centre.

Isn't it? You know if you look at all radio LBC yes, they have you not left of centre presenters, but 80% of the schedule is right of centre because that's the red meat isn't it people can be on benefits? Let's make things out of people in jail.

That's what gets the attention to the very first talk radio in it launched in 1995 which meant even further right than the current talk radio on what happened.

He couldn't get any advertisers know I'm off to be part of it.

So they can get any.

Appetising support if they were forced to go left to make the business viable.

I don't think you're going to get commercial support for such a venture, but what about in today's climate though? I don't think appetizers want to go that advertises now are very concerned about their Brand and has represented and I think advertises on movie to be more correct and more diverse and more understanding of the way with Society is now not the opposite.

So I just don't think that with the advertising support for her.

You're not email social media social media would probably kill it wouldn't is what happens to people then go onto Twitter 11a Facebook and say don't support this brand and we know people then wouldn't support that brand.

I mean you see you know for example for your imagining a brand that requiring advertising Vito 04 house.

Would you find it what Tommy Robinson and Katie Hopkins do online broadcasting that doesn't require advertising because they just get supporters that believe what they're saying.

An individual can't support a proper network you said you was trying to do you said a network not an individual standing in front of the camera.

That's not the same thing channel network as a right-wing a proper right.

We met well with proper debating with proper production back to a point about Production there's no way an individual can afford that you're either going to have it funded via carriage fees but I kept but no one's going to pick outfits for that or advertising or public money.

I can't see any of those supporting.

It was supposed to be interesting example that contradicts what he's saying is the male zone website isn't it? Isn't right wingers the paper itself.

I mean if there was money in a website if it works.

They have an Andrew Pierce podcast with me correct.

So they don't think ok Katie regional journalist will have their wages covered by Facebook thanks to a 4 1/2 million pound donation to the National cancer.

For the training of journalists, I mean as however cynical we are about Facebook's Motives for doing this and it is good PR for them in a storm of bad PR this is a good thing isn't it? The journalist who are losing their jobs.

Otherwise are having some sort of income coming in I would be very careful because I don't trust like Facebook at all.

I'm actually having it's weird that I feel so strongly against this because a lot of the use of big tech people have bought other papers or Media Ventures and managed to stay out of editorial something of like the Wasp poster like Time Magazine recently but I don't know I just don't think giving what's going on with Facebook right now will see the idea Paul is there acknowledging that the audience for local papers as rude disgusting earlier is on social media anyway, so they have responsibility for filling the gap I guess the

Once you're trained up, where do you go and work? If baby's not exist anymore well, that's too maybe you can go and watch some else then maybe the genus and skills are transferable mean.

I think it's good that money is going to UK Jones and training.

That's a good thing.

I think money she really is about scale assist.

You know 4.5 million sounds like a lot of money, but actually it's absolutely nothing for Facebook and it really is a drop in the ocean mean when you think that Facebook last year to 1.3 billion pounds from the UK 1.3 billion and that's up from 842 million a year before they are absent making squillions in the UK so this is this is lost in the round.

This is like her expenses this like you claim your cup of coffee for your expenses.

It's nothing it's a it's a gesture, but it's a gesture that really is far too small and I think is an attempt to get good PR is not a real commitment and I say that because I do worry about Facebook mean.

They made a big thing about investing in original content and now cuz this month they said are we now we're not going invest in original content.

I I think you were very very wearing.

Facebook I feel like a Facebook cared which they don't they would be sharing the advertising revenue with publishers more fairly, so if they want to sort of help journalism be sustainable that kind of what they should be there.

Is it is kind of like a lot of people in the media are asking them for something instead of cooperating with that then I will just give some money for this other thing but can speak up for their business model.

Let me know just matching the kind of rates that were offered by Google anyway that transform the industry is not like Facebook created that migration to online and they also creating the possibility to target very specifically controversially but very specific json, interesting political allegiance and all the rest of it in a way that are the major organisations cannot offer so that's worth.

That's worth something when you get those readers you're paying for their service to do that.

How did you feel about Mrs Like a Bird not turning up this week at the branch Committee on fake news when he's done this didn't turn up either to the dcms committee.

So there's a bit of track record here.

I mean this seems incredibly arrogant giving it was new number of Nations olive.

Very senior people should I do to cheer him was that a bit of a WhatsApp to cheer team did men took a Pierre struggling to be for social media? I think about to turn up you know why would he turn up? He has absolutely nothing to gain from turning up, so he was never going to turn up and he's not going to turn up because he can't answer the questions.

He doesn't want to answer questions.

There is no accountability to these people and therefore.

Why would you show up so I mean picking their reputation was looking very bad right now.

So the issue is how does he manage the company going forward and is it going to have any impact on the company and the answer is it's not really having any impact on the company.

So why would he care? You know he doesn't care.

I mean he doesn't he doesn't care doesn't need to show up.

He doesn't need to be a council these people and he's not going to be I do if you saw the BBC story this week with said the best way to curb the spread of fake news was basically not to react to it in any way at all.

Don't feed the trolls don't dislike.

Don't share it and so I can't.

This story just ignore it you think that message is getting through to the public in my slowly.

Yeah.

I'm I slowly I mean I think more and more people of disengaging from Facebook for a start and what I hate internally from Facebook has a lot of people within the company on happy with things so I actually think whether that's your anecdotal evidence will not restore another executive Leeds this week.

Didn't we want to go from WhatsApp has now left and Instagram founders have lots of people that have sold their companies to Facebook rebellions have left the numbers are in the unfortunately got the kids a business.

I just go to the number to the UK they nearly doubled their revenue in the last two years.

It's a business with no don't don't think they're nice people.

It's a business and they doing very well and if they doing very well that actually they will continue to pursue those policies, but you do wonder why and this is speculative but why someone from WhatsApp might leave Facebook bearing in mind bare entire there entire raison.

D'etre was about encryption the obvious speculation is that Facebook intending to have is that they City I feel less.

In about about how they going I think they need to start son of God preaching about Netflix one of the other thing companies and the Roald Dahl universe coming to their screens.

Thanks to a deal.

We don't know how much they've actually bought the authors Estate for but it won't have been cheap and the idea is there gonna make a whole slew of children's programme space and Roald Dahl characters say goodbye to think that's definitely what is so great about Roald Dahl that is that he appeals to adults as well, but you know he's one of those authors were you resend as an adult and you get a completely different picture and you're like the sky is really mean look quite funny as well so going to Magic Mike those we will be great shows to sit down and watch with the whole family you know which so I think he's quite a good quite a good offer if you want to come of capture a lot of different markets and also very distinctly British I mean I know they've done American adaptations where they tried to americanize the characters, but it seems to me the wise thing to do it would be to appeal to anglophile audiences around the world like Harry Potter

I think whatever you want to do is they want to take authentic stories from Market and then they want to make them into global stories, but keep the authenticity of the original country Uno mean the thing that always question me is example is Koko the Disney movie as an example how Netflix like to do kids and family so they kept the authenticity of that ceremony of the dead in South America but it became a global hit because the storytelling was so universal was it see my Netflix I think it's that they are really investing in kids and I've posting than quite a few deals with Netflix now in the last 12 months now really investing very heavily and Kids because they see is such an important part of what they do but the point you make about family is also right because they want adults to watch as well because what these what this continent does it down t-shirt it stops people turning there's no contract with Netflix so because now they got in the UK 10 million subscribers for example.

They don't want to lose those people you know if you got a churn rate of 10% you replacing 1 million every year that so expensive thing to do and that power of children is really power.

Yeah, supposed to pester power tool is actually the handbrake what it's about it.

You will not turn out of Netflix if that child loses that shows that Charles going to complain to your life is made easier by keeping Netflix and that's what Netflix to do.

I verify Sharon white Ofcom this week who talked about Netflix in the context of Public Service Broadcasting what what's Netflix are doing is they've got so much good content now.

It's become the go to place the defaqto home and I'm in her, dad saying to the public broadcasters.

You need to get your act together.

I drive so all that contents in one place rather than going to the iPlayer rather than going to channel 4 on demand rather than going to my five you want one place is absolute right and that's what Netflix doing absolutely superb.

Let's talk about the things she was talking about which is Freeview his new app.

What do you make of this launched as it's coming in January it will be an app where it sounds boring talking about it.

Cuz it feels like 5 years ago doesn't this?

The app doesn't exist yet and I suppose there is a need for it will be an app where BBC Channel 4 ITV channel 5 or all in one place like Freeview on telly like iPlayer on demand.

Is it going to work? I don't think people maybe im comparing it to podcast where you know you can have an app where you can get content from BBC and PR Indies and you know someone's made in the bedroom but the point is having people now got their habit.

They know to go to OL4 for the Channel 4 content.

They know to go to iPlayer for the BBC content.

Do they need another app on my phone? Is it too late you can cause I think people get sick of you know an app for this thing and out for that thing.

I trust me.

I just not very sexy brand now.

I think they're late in the day with this but the critical issue is that Freeview is confined to the home because you can only get Freeview via a set top box or via a connected TV

Smart TV so if you want to get watch these are the services on your mobile you can't at the moment and viewing is shifting to tablets and mobile so the only way to keep Freeview alive is to make sure you can do it on your phone on your tablet.

That's why they need the app so it's actually crystal if they don't do this review will actually wither away and I as Ewing moved away from home to out of home.

So this is a survival mode.

It's the right thing to do is a bit late, but I think it is the right move but it's difficult for the broadcast isn't it? Because they can have if they direct people to get this app to see their content on the go there effectively saying don't come to our app where in the case of the BBC we can make sure you're only watching BBC contents on it.

Which was surprising to like you were in the case is ITV and Channel 4 we're not selling your eyeballs to our advertisers.

It's no different to the current situation where you actually using Freeview on your TV in the home? It's just an extension of adding into a mobile situation.

Could you think Freeview should because at the curated feed what they recommend to you when you login is quite important.

Isn't it? Should Freeview be prioritising the public service type.

Contents that channel 4 channel 5 on ITV due to match the BBC start broadcasting exactly that is a counter to Sky and the pay-tv broadcaster.

Purpose was to look after public broadcaster, so that that's why it's there I suppose the biggest test of whether a new PSP at can work is probably BBC sounds, isn't it? Have you been using that it's not like it.

I like it because you can actually is Easter navigate.

I like the fact of the podcast for and there is well.

I really like that and it's also good for listening to stations out of area as well, so I quite enjoy listening tune to Radio Newcastle am in London and then do it very very easily.

Would I prefer it had all the commercial stations in there as well? Yes, I would is it a good service for BBC yes, it is don't forget those independent commercial podcast to have lost their Media quiz.

This week, it's cold and finally producer Rebecca has hand-picked 3 Loki Media stories that you should really hear about but aren't worth commenting on Rebecca I think you've just exposed the format of the media cuisine with your name when you know the answer, so now you will say and pull your say are they ready.

Loki media store number one according to Ofcom boss Sharon white witch TV network close toilet maybe years too early Paul BBC3 yes, the answer was BBC3 as she was responding to a question at the Freeview conference.

They went online only in 2016 was that years too early.

I think it probably was the reach of television by 1624 is 78% in the reach by 25 to 34 is 87% RGB the audience of BBC Three so they're still watching a lot of broadcast television.

It's not until you get to kids and the very very young you get to a lower number so actually was sorry is too early because these disorders.

The still watching the television by conventional broadcast mean I mean if you look at older people 55 plus.

It's 96% this point as they told us went BBC Surrey Close there would be standout hits for everyone you were BBC Three and then we talked about and BBC3 would be a destination as a digital destination its own right online has that happened? What do you think the impact of losing their controller Damian Kavanagh to tiger aspect might have I mean? He's very experienced executive and he's coming he's one of many BBC defections over last few months in a both executives and Talent and the BBC seems to be getting a bit care less about losing Talent and I think that's because there is uncertainty in the organisation and no currently the BBC maybe is a happier place in Facebook but I think BBC is you no not at the moment in Absolutely confident and that's why you see people at Damien seeing opportunities outside so big loss Hill Dubai

But to BBC needs to make I think steps to try and security key Talent be fed up.

I just have it to make the case that I just asked about as well that every conference ego series me I'm innocent fishing that even even make his Loki Media story number to which journalism with your name when you know the answer which journalist is having an excellent week with to award wins and as I've started to have finished and a chart topping podcast under her belt Naz Carole cadwalla.

Yes, I'm glad you try pronouncing that surname problem.

He has had next time next year hasn't she all the Facebook Cambridge analytica stuff as well, what happened this week.

She wanted and also the political studies Association award and she's also got a hit podcast right now another one podcast.

Have you had it yet.

I have not yet again.

You know how works been so great this year was quite interesting and she basically started this show about the murder investigation is impact on brexit because she felt that that wasn't being reported and so she just did it be out frustration she says.

She's actually surprised that it's been popular well.

I've never heard it so I know will because I've now been business very story is now raise my when so it's so I will be checking you down, but I have no knowledge at the moment.

I suppose as well victories nicest a task flag up, but not many journalists are given the opportunities that she has you know funded by a company like the Observer to spend 3 years chasing Nigel Farage interview.

I mean the you know most people don't have the opportunity to go that deep and that long but I wonder if a lot of a lot of these big media companies also not giving many opportunities to their reporters to do that sort of like a long time and basket of work that requires a lot of effort and you know you're not going to get a result for what you do put in four years before success immediately think like so many will win as you know they suddenly thrust into the spotlight and using Argos where they come from and actually they been doing the ground working.

You're totally right to me.

I think investigative journalism and long-term digging the store.

This is not commercially attractive is it in her there's no Media return so I suspect there's less and less about of the work being done but I do think what's interesting is ok.

Maybe this is more about me, but I think the public are really into that kind of stuff so whenever there's a good investigative piece.

I'm thing even here in the US it always does really well, so I think publishers or news organisations who are putting in money for investigative work and I thinking about long-term.

I think that's kind of a smart thing to be doing as well people credit.

If you've done long-term investors.

It works.

Yeah, of course general scope disappears within 24hrs name at least an hour and I think especially in the area of like fake news and stuff publications who are doing that it really sets them apart and I kind of give him a lot of credibility promise no discusses discussions during a low key Media stories so here.

It is it's the tie-break Loki media store in other three buzzing with your name and you know the answer which local radio.

Station very impressive for lifestyle T20 finish David DeeJay who only ever broadcast from his shared a slot on their Christmas schedule, Paul I know this because a long time ago.

I used to the weekend breakfast show on this station to BBC Three Counties Radio based in Luton Dunstable these days Dunstable these days.

You're right.

I have I have been there a bit on there yesterday.

I could dick dick Duncan who started doing this in 1974 with a wire out the window from his shed and he's playing records to his wife Teresa so I think she should get the award for listening to this her husband playing these records for Kenny Rogers young guy when he started and he's now 73 and he's finally getting a show on BBC Three Counties and the idea of broadcasting from a shared ridiculous though.

It sounds actually haven't Gideon Coe on 6 Music broadcast from the shed and Desmond Carrington broad customer shed for a while.

He did a pushchair.

Who is she today in a very nice shape with the shed around and took it Award winners as well? It's just in Delia course on Three Counties Radio who did that story and get something way for very long time as reported Three Counties my local station.

He's brilliant and finally now getting the recognition he deserves to use location performing badly and lack identity but to BBC Three Counties I think is actually doing really well in a difficult pipes because it's covering you know very weird mix account is banned as Wetherspoons next door.

There is a Wetherspoons next to yes.

I've not been in there though excellent though.

That's a coffee.

I always always only how many Wetherspoons anyway.

That's what you want next summer in Dunstable poorly, but you will take me to check cancer and have a dance dance.

Giving money to us then please do consider taking a voluntary subscription head to the media podcast dot.com / donate and selection amount to keep us going for year-round remember you can catch up with all previous episodes and get new one soon as they're released by subscribing for free on our website vmedia podcast.com I've been remanded use of Rebecca Grace house share it with media podcast is 8 PPM production so next time.

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