Read this: SPECIAL: Interview with Paul 'Gobby' Lambert: The Downing Street Heckler

Hello and welcome to the media podcast I'm only met today a special edition of The Show and to indicate that let's throw out for me out the window and fade this music out lovely at now some of you may know that I am something of a prolific podcast Duran on one of my other shows the modern Man and then it's a part of my name.

I go out and meet fascinating people out of the public eye who can tell us something about our modern world at the format is still available to option if you do work in telly at anyway occasionally we do interviews that I think you the media savvy type would really enjoy and say previously for example.

I spoke to a former journalist about what it's like working for Russia today.

I met the obituary writer of The Times and I spoke to warm up Legend Andy Collins about how to whip a TV audience into a frenzy all those well worth a listen modern man with two ends.

Co.uk

Not on this week, so I had the pleasure of talking to a former BBC camera operator called Paul Lambert and that is the interview we're going to play for you today.

You probably not heard of him.

You may have heard of his alter ego gobi gobi got his name basically by shouting at politicians as they came and went from Downing Street and in this exclusive edit of the interview.

We will hear how often that cause friction with his Bosses at BBC News you'll hear me asking about the class bias in the media today and how he changed the working practices of correspondence and news producers forever before he left the BBC to become a communications director for UKIP here.

It is enjoy actually started many many years ago electrician on the floor at Television Centre setting like for Top of the Pops and all that sort of thing and then I made my way through from electrician to say.

Gorleston you then I went Westminster and I bought in a thing called multi-skilling which was where I was a caravan stroke producer.

Did you ever heard the ambitions in that direction then not really until I got there and I suppose really one of my big brakes with when Blair first got elected in where I met probably the man that was probably the best politician that was never a politician who was Alastair Campbell I've got sent down the day after the election to Diss get the shot of blood coming out of number 10 and Blair opens the door comes out starts walking resolve the camera Crews followed behind him and I'm just standing behind the railings in Downing Street getting this one shot when an asteroid come from now on the campaign, Is it coming what you doing come with us?

I literally had players point of view shot all the way down Whitehall till we get to the house apparently walked in to your behind it literally walking behind him.

I had his idea in Mile End, that something that the previous government John majors government they never thought to do in short like that.

Alistair was friendly towards the lower people in the media.

I know for a fact he goes from correspondence some very hard times but to me it was always very very friendly as what was your job at that point in 1997 job at that point really works to get shots gets out different book a main camera crew.

Wouldn't be getting just trying to liven things up a little bit but you were stationed on Downing Street you get sent to demonstrate or you get Cent if I was your camera Crews and I need a shot of a minister coming out of a building somewhere you'd get

Just around the Home Office recovers if it gets shot of whoever the Home Office minister wasn't that time so weird thing isn't it because in a way a shot of what is normally a middle-aged white guy from behind walking into a building looks much the same as it did the week before and yet people want the fresh shots because any little detail of it could be telling the story but that was a really really good gremlin for what I went on today because I'd be hanging outside the front of the home office or the Foreign Office or aparthotel.

I need to see people that because you were there so often people with not sure.

How are you? And I want to talk to you.

And that made life easier because all the fun you do I do when I checked it's coming out.

I'll be out in 20 minutes before you can always go and get a coffee then cos you know that the without up another 20 minutes.

So you got 10 minutes go get coffee funny thing is you got to know who to trust and who couldn't trust the nicest people that site.

I just can't tell you at the moment.

Then you know that was up.

You knew there was a problem and you know you had to go home in a bit harder.

I've made friends with Cherie Blair during the early years of the bear campaign and we've got a bit of a personal relationship then that she knew I was I knew she was the Prime Minister's wife and we got quite frankly I don't know I can't imagine that mean you're basically can't outside a house.

How was that the grinding for a good relationship? There was a very very silly occurrence in that one day she came out.

In the early years and she has little silver mini metro she used to work as a lawyer lines of the current.

It wouldn't start so the battery was nearly there, but it wasn't quite that and I was still a caramel otamatone.

Can I help she won't start won't start over the barrier in the car started? Thanks.

Very much.

Is it to buy you a new battery? She said he's lying he's too tight and I've she went and she want to sort of relationship that you managed to build up with people.

I've never seen Cherie Blair's mini metro on the news is that just park slightly off weather cameras are allowed to point.

What's the deal? They're there is a deal in private cars.

You don't you don't feel there's another there's another deal as well in that if you notice on all the news pieces the registration numbers of the cars if they are in a shot of Blurred out.

That's a security thing.

Wheeler by bright in the later years where conference in think it was Brighton and I noticed that she had a book signing and it was about the time when the entire cabinet had endorsed Gordon Brown as the next Lidl Low by apart from one man by the way to write.

I just thought what what she thinks.

So just crap on my camera Crews and went up to the books.

Are you sure he said? Hi? How are you alright sure? I said, how are you? What are you going to do when tiny gives up seat darling? That's a long way in the future luckily.

She didn't say to anyone else that died.

I didn't talk to anyone else that day and that made the front page of 7 next newspaper.

Did you know as soon as you heard that that's a Newsline I knew immediately I'm not sure because I came back and said I said I've got to collect wish she said time is not giving up for a long time are the exciting the box with the other types will have a look at it later.

And I thought is worth more than that my friends her boyfriend happen to be one of the reporters on P&O which is suppressed satiation and I said to contact your boyfriend.

I've got a Polish I'm just must see what you think's come and listen to anyone about sweets and said can I went I think I got the interview about 10:30 11:00 it maybe I will about 12 includes are in the 1:00 news all the time so maybe the BBC news at the trust its own journalists more than that trusts the press association sometimes, when did you start seeing yourself as a journalist? I'm not sure I ever saw myself as a serious policy journalist.

I'd see myself more as a tabloid journalist that happened to work for the BBC and there's not very many of those is there for me something.

BBC's frightened of I actually think the BBC's frightened the breaking stories BBC popular entertainment, but I mean well.

That's a look at what happened with Jeremy Clarkson if it doesn't like figures seem to be with a finger on the populist pass.

It doesn't like figures that don't count down to the BBC's Ethos a story again that happen conference this was actually a players last conference Bill Clinton come over Clinton is probably the most charismatic man I've ever met anyway.

I'm glad it is big speech and I position myself with a camera crew on the way, we're with dignitaries walk back and I was a live camera again for the BBC news channel is it was standing and walking back so I just shouted out by Bill you gonna miss Tony

anytime over

the started telling stories about himself from Blairgowrie enjoyed it which absolute clue for news channel on what point do you think it's appropriate when your footage is being being lied to the news channel to say I build to a former president of the USA that's exactly what I got from the BBC link.

It's appropriate to say or a bill when it means he's going to come over and talk to us if I said excuse me president just think you'd like to have a word with the BBC see you to come over.

I don't is that how you started getting your nickname got exactly how I got my name.

Then.

There was one of the budget statements George Osborne was just about to leave and he's up there on the bookshelf and it was when money was a bit short.

So I'll just shut up any money in the box Chancellor which made of all the caravan laugh and think it even got a chuckle out of I was born with the time is that we?

Looking for a real looking for a reaction that there was some shouts that you want a stoppers when it when you want to stop someone dead and they've got to answer it is it's nothing like are you going to resign Prime Minister or is that because you know when you asked that they're going to carry on walking but not going to start there's probably one about money like did you really embezzle that money it will be something that someone has got a reactor I get in but it turns out you know that are you stealing from the children the what are you stealing from the children something that someone's got to reactor? Did you feel when you're asking those questions and what sort of relationship you had with people I can always remember a very early morning doorstep with a former home secretary Charles Clarke I've had the privilege of having a chat with his chauffeur before you please tell me that.

Mr Clark opening offered his resignation to play the night before and you got that information from the chauffeur.

I got that from the show before anybody else but thing well, obviously playing gladiator stopper been turned out not to be but it did make the headline of The 6:00 news that night when I just asked Charles Clarke what are we still be home secretary that night ok? So that's a glass and he wasn't you'll basically responsible for that.

I knew I don't remember before you the thing of are you still going to be home secretary this evening Mr Clark being a thing you saw in a clip on the 6:00 news? Where is now and it's become something the political correspondence themselves.

Do isn't it? It's the scripted part of the piece that they start with a clip of the blisters gone outside saying how the brexit negotiations going Prime

I know they're going to walk past not say anything, but it's become it's become an essential part of the news package.

That's your fault but but at the minute.

I don't need to get the next interview that's not I won't get the next interview so so I can upset so do you ever see yourself someone who is claiming scalps and Away I mean Charles Clarke then resign that evening well either others that wasn't down to me.

I might help a little bit but it wasn't down to me for your always.

There.

Are you must have felt a bit like that sometimes you remain you what you waiting for everyone else knows about to leave the job.

I was know when I'm in the shit.

You're outside my front door and it was true, but again John was a brilliant politician in that always remember time I come round, but I don't wanna Jonah does out one dying we need to clip out of him and I was right ruptly live.

Round the corner from Parliament I was outside out of camera crew normal Sundays close protection officers do up.

I meant every word I said John wants to know what you want cos he's going to dinner with his wife and his in his dinner suit and if he's got a responding change out with dinner so her normal so come up to your clit and then go I said I'll tell you it's about this.

This is just getting changed or normal so it will be out but you can't be can't give you long because he's got to go this dinner.

So was what you call a sensible politician in the new they go after respond at some point so much will do it now, but he's managing Matt news.

Isn't it? You need to ask me different question he doesn't to be in a dinner suit so he's managing it so it's it's a manipulation of what is really happening was real.

Japanese he's going somewhere in his dinner suit but that won't make my news now.

It would have got it would have made the news you become someone who looked the image.

He wanted to know if I'm going to get the clip.

Am I need the clip from the use bass.

I'm prepared to live with that supposed to Classic one is Tony Blair holding the mug with his kids on it because the public noticed that they were being manipulated.

That's when it all falls down.

Isn't it? But the whole of Westminster news is managed to a certain extent politics is different from any other form with you cos you are relying on people telling your sex someone's got to tell you something the biggest story that everyone ever missed was John majors alleged affair.

Was Ivana no one knew about that and it just shows you what time knit community that made you must have had around it for no one to know about that.

Do you have the same as filing cabinet filler stories on before he is very very little conspiracy around is very little conspiracy sofas sofas and copper surfaces with Chauffeurs people ministers.

To go over there.

I think they thought the cars were driving himself some of these people go out.

They got a late night parties.

The Chauffeurs don't get home till very late.

They get a bit fed up there all talking amongst themselves a conversation and in the back of the car or come out.

I mean that you mentioned a parallel between the white house and Downing Street before it's impossible to imagine that the president sofa wouldn't be signing an nda.

Isn't it and yet in the UK is it really that ramshackle that the person who's Driving the top Minister's so probably size, but the truth is still probably only normal people.

I feel sitting down having a cup of tea with them.

They won't tell your whole story but they might point you in the right direction and having a cup of tea.

That's interesting because that's something that a lot of people moving into the media now.

Do not have the time to do.

I think they don't the idea of going out making contact with someone who was like a chauffeur for a politician Belsay know if you want to go with what's going on inside Westminster get onto it.

Oh wait for someone to DMU

Absolute rubbish to the chat to some American students who were talking and it's the most important thing you think about journalists and they began Twitter Facebook or constantly media about 10 minutes and I went you're forgetting something.

I forgot what I said talk to people.

People tell you stories that are going on Twitter on the way on Facebook and I could be anywhere else in the news made it there what you need because if it's on Twitter it sold anyway build relationships with people this is where because the media has shrunk and there are less people work in the media.

I think now then they're probably ever used to be especially in mainstream.

Media anyway.

I think people are finding that they haven't got or they don't think they've got the time to spare.

I was quite lucky in that when I was at work and Westminster if there wasn't a big story Gary Lineker take myself over to one of the numerous cafes in the wet in Westminster and just sit there and talk to me.

You know that something about now is near where did you say on in the news channel 32 going out 5 stories a day and but it shouldn't be perhaps.

This is why when they are getting a much more managed Media the weather.

Read before like I'll be truthful.

I didn't like budgets or autumn statements when you know who's far to managed.

It was all choreographed and it was all about getting a six seven eight minute package for the 10 news you had to get a clipping with the assembly you had to get a clipping replied even if they've made no news that day, but it had to be there it was formulaic.

I'd much prefer a story where a minister says something stupid and we have to go chasing after that day and try and actually get to the bottom of it find out what actually is going on that's news the rest of it's just a drama.

It's funny.

Isn't it? Because you know the life of the country hangs in the balance sometimes and yeah the the stories are going to make the headlines.

They are gossipy.

I mean things something like plebgate for example.

You know where Andrew Mitchell was a minister for the Tories may or may not have called someone a pleb went on for years and that.

Really just sort of he said, she's this strange things like a present prime minister.

I can remember going round to do an interview with Theresa May at just after 9 on a wet Thursday evening.

I don't know what the story about could well have been a prison break or something like that does you x x x x x I get rid at 9 need this clip for the 10:00.

Yes, I'm standing all shut up reading the home office and I get a message down then as a homesexual can't come and do the interview at the moment.

How special adviser is still at dinner and she can't talk until a special advisers back and when you look at how the brexit negotiations ago and now you think.

What does the special advisers making the Decisions of the prime minister is because at the time was home to text you.

She didn't see that make the decisions without a special adviser standing there.

Did you ever know encounter a real conviction politician who had gone somewhere.

There's one thing that of being a bum Out of Here mo Mowlam without that.

I can remember Debbie Littleover conference and I think it was Blair and her fell out when blend mentioned during a speech and she got standing ovation.

She was leaving in the whole know which one of the good people without doubt if you have to go back you know 20 years to find someone who is universally kind of loved.

As a bit of a damning indictment of the people in politics, isn't it? Yeah, you're a bit of a news junkie aren't you had BBC Parliament on when I came round to your house this afternoon little bit of it Melua what do you mean the acceleration but when you get a big sorry? I did a few other stories apart from politics in that one story that affecting me quite deeply was very Milly dowler story.

It's probably true to say that I broke that story for the baby so which part of it the disappearance.

It was a Friday in in politics.

We tend to work for day wait which is Monday Thursday and I was at home and my daughter came home from school at 12.

Cos stores breaking up and she said I'd girl from haskell's disappeared.

Saran the office and said the 14-year-old girls gone missing from Weybridge Weybridge she's quite up across the area.

It's not the sort of thing that happened Baria 14-year-old girls go missing all the time don't worry about it at 7, and I got a phone call Gladstone runners in on the map of just rung us.

Could you nip to the local police station into an interview with the Cochrane any chance of doing a reconstruction of the way she might walk home with sending a camera crew to you now.

That was the star we lead on that story for 6 weeks and I teamed up with her reporter call Clarence Mitchell and we lead the balloons for 6 weeks and we were there for the beginning to the end and the sad thing about it was that Millie was actually meant to one of my daughter's mental that's cool.

So it's quite that was quite close in Pontefract again.

And that's about a personal relationship with the police on that story.

What about their parents because presumably part of it was being outside their house yeah that I did find quite tricky and slightly intrusive but please don't like a politician you stepped out of line.

Is it there in the public eye are reasons they do not want to be happy at the same time they need the media to be there to get their message out.

I actually met exclusive first usage of the uninsured remember and because we built up a relationship with the place that would do an investigation that we were the one team that stayed at ITN and Sky by capacitance or their high-profile reporters and producers.

Where is Clarence of myself stuck with the story from day one so we had a relationship built up within the local.

Areas in local it helped but Millie's mum wouldn't let the take that she had out of a hand so we actually took an edit suite to the local police station and typing and we copied it there and then you won't it.

Let it out of her hand because it was the memories you had it last memories.

She had about over such a difficult thing to negotiate.

Isn't it? Yeah? Yeah, I must admit we're both families body and we're all there.

It was only time with lyric ride on a star.

But that was just my daughter was virtually the same.

I shouldn't really have been a mental and itchy eyes out.

I never gets close to the story ever again and that compassion is sometimes what's missing isn't it? When people try and do the gobi doorstep isn't it? It's actually it says if people are going through a very difficult emotional time even if their senior politician stop you've got an app which is where is it people's personal lives that the thing that's no good you feeling if you're in the public eye but

Speak what if they've got caught playing away from home and they got a wife and two kids home and there is a public wireless.

Sorry, you're in the public.

Are you put yourself their?

February still on the beat now, you'll be sunny outside viruses Holmewood you shouting at you like that before I've done that before I can actually remember being outside Morrisons house many years ago when I think it's his affair with petronella Wyatt now.

We're all out there.

There was a gaggle of us.

It was the one when he Leapt over the back fence and then can jogging in front door and a young lady or young mum shouted across the road was pushed while she was pushing a pram.

Why don't you leave him alone? I said cos he's married and got two kids and has been shagging someone else.

That's why he put himself up, then you know prices prices never done anything they didn't mean today.

so

this is not the clown that he likes to make out.

It is I couldn't remember a story with Boris think it was his second job in London mayor when I was with a cat, but we've been sent to spend the day with Boris walking around London virtually and we were nearing the end of the day and my camera.

I'm really tired as a headband with coming to a big council estate purchase x many said do people really look like this and I looked at the caravan in a caravan.

She said property damage embarrass.

You know that we didn't have the camera running so she's never seen if he doesn't mean sinocism minutes.

You're looking out for

Is Messi having a runny that's the one I keep myself all the way I will resend it now, but you win some you lose some you're not going to win everything you always always keep the mic on even when you say it.

I'll keep the camera on even when you say it's not just now you've never tried never trick anyone's side the cameras off when it's on but you could argue in politics.

It's fair game.

It's those off the road now.

That's not fare.

Well.

There was a bit wasn't a weekend Livingstone Boris Johnson having an argument in the lift lbcg remember that said there was no one said there was also that's fair enough.

Potential by definition is the possibility of achieving more in the fast-paced world of digital advertising Oracle data cloud has built its Legacy on finding the signal through the noise on unlocking potential we bring together data and technology to help you better understand your audience where to best engage them and how to measure a tool to realise true potential Oracle data cloud where better outcomes begin visit Oracle data cloud., to landlords, the maze the police the kisses the squabbles unless walks no idea what's going on in politics today makes sense of it all with a digital subscription to The Times and the Sunday Times from only £1 a week for 8 weeks search time sale now terms and conditions apply available to new subscribers only what about themselves.

Inner Gordon Brown follow Tony Blair I feel sorry forgot.

I didn't think Gordon could control his temper.

I could have ever been in Downing Street with Nick Robinson and Nicky been in the room during the interview with Gordon

When Gordon stormed out I can't remember the precise words.

But think it was something about mixed parentage.

He did not question and I came out brown when she went back in the days next interview I certainly consider.

I think you upset him and it went yeah.

I think I probably did but brown couldn't control himself, but he knew enough to get out of the room before it's late, but I've seen him do it Cameron

Wants exploded in Afghanistan not to me, but someone told me about it with all gone out there on a trip camera was supposed to go up to the front line with a helicopter with camera Crews was going to go out with him.

Get a few shots come back, but make it on if the news place in the country unfortunately.

There's been a kidnapping over British soldier the time.

It's all the helicopters right looking for him and Cameron got the hump because you didn't ever came out the front line, but his minders told him it wasn't going to happen and that was that I mean that's an interesting one isn't going to a warzone because then you really are yes, you're reporting on something that happened and yes all media is managed to an extent but that that's the stuff to get slick back on in the future is as propaganda of the times for the total bubble the only chance you've got is on the stuck on the plane on the way out.

It's not one for the Producers it's one for the correspondence from the plane in the way home and Cameron come back and sides to chat to people and he's a bit knackered.

You might get Story out of that the rest of its propaganda.

Do you think the fact that you talk anymore the way the fact that your background is clearly not you know you didn't go to eating do you think that helped yeah without doubt by.

I think they felt practical bullshit me quite easily perhaps.

It was a bit too as I was a bit too straight through a lot of I'm certainly a bit too straight for a lot of BBC and it took a long time for the babysitter start taking the shelf seriously and it wasn't until sort of Andy Murray and Nick Robinson came along the we started using for years.

We've been chatting away from we've only got away on Sunday that he's taking the differential Nissan way from that a lot now.

Where is Wantage Frost it was a lot more deferential and it's like the younger generation of political coming three people like that in Christianity began Chris's got original voice and it works, but it the informality of it.

It's getting less and less deferential.

What was the politician that said we work for you.

Will then there on speak to you the Rascal to ask giving it a problem that there aren't too many people in the BBC for example who sound like you.

Yes the BBC racist or sexist absolutely not doesn't discriminate against class absolutely you look at the way the BBC employees people on work experience or certainly did I don't know many people that came from the background.

I came from the could do a year's work experience not get paid and not know whether they got a job at the end of a new 24 guide me my big brakes but in a way.

It's worse than the way that uses down in that you used to be able to craft the pays for the one of six 1 and 6 or as it was in the old days the 9:00 news now.

You're looking for a sorry for the next 30 seconds and I'm not sure how long you can maintain a 1 or 6 and 10 News Bulletin rather just opted into the news channel because I'm not sure where they can afford to do it and also whether the story is so out of date by the time it gets to the bulletin the but I've known People Help things how things back from the news channel, so it's got some fresh for the bulletin.

That seems dance now doesn't it? I'm sure it still happens to buy one of the stories.

I do remember from the early days of the news channel in the term shepherds with Stanley play creditreform the BBC News 24 and then ask you to do a package for the 9:00 news, so wasn't working for the news that time at night.

I was at in the office.

So I just took a phone call from this guy didn't actually say it was and said can I speak to help which place? I don't really understand why but?

How's the back of my neck stand up and I said he's not here at my back.

I have I really do need to speak to it.

This is just a cold calling him in Coca-Cola coming to the office and I just feel I've got to go and get here.

She's not going to be happy, but I've got to go and get him.

We need to get the needs to talk to this person.

So what so the other it's way to use halfway through the Edit for the 9:00 news.

I said she is Focus you you need to take this Cole I don't know why you need to take it, but you need to take it.

It's just Instinct typical a sound literally that the hairs on the back of my neck is still on it, but what I mean add to do the colours and emotional origin, but I'd never and I've never heard this voice before.

if you come off the phone and said

Get me to the news news camera near we need to go on there and it was the start of the runned over story and I'm already got caught allegedly on Clapham Common in a compromising position of belief and he was a minister.

It was a minister of the child think he was Welsh I think it was Secretary of State for Wales so I must say when you said run based the two words that flash into my head works in Welsh that's what true story is he calling with them Rice Lane to Kew yeah, what actually happened because she was as you know Welsh and I think there was something they knew each other and again.

It was probably a personal relationship thing but to this day.

I still don't understand why the hairs on the back of my head stood up on it, but they said when you watch other people trying to do what you did so well.

What were they getting wrong?

Button at the Instinct I think there is a major problem with correspondence to ensure they have got have the patronage of those politicians.

I actually upset Cameron once we were again another one at conference camera notes sent Samantha to watch the Tories play the journalists at football match centre with one of the reminders that always went everywhere and I just thought I'd be a little bit cheeky so at half-time Tories I think we're losing 5-0 to the journalists at the time and also Cameron wasn't doing very well in the polls either for the government so largest sidled up to cameras work on a certain.

So what do you think then? So she said im what we're not doing very well at the moment.

Maybe we do.

Better in the second are quite nice is useful for a package that I met Cameron the week after conference.

He went absolutely party at me because his wife wasn't on official Duty reckon.

She was quoted out of context.

I shouldn't anyway.

She's over 21.

She should know what she's doing.

Did he feel that you preached an unwritten rule that yeah, she was at a public event with government minders if I can't look after her.

That's their fault Paul Lambert aka, Bobby and if you enjoyed that interview you can find more much more along with some markedly less Media centric trends and items on my podcast the modern Mare m a double n search for it on your podcast app of choice.

I've been leaving the producer of all that you've heard today was Matt Hill the media podcast is a PPM production and will be back very soon with an abortion.

Potential by definition is the possibility of achieving more in the fast-paced world of digital advertising Oracle data cloud has built its Legacy on finding the signal through the noise on unlocking potential we bring together data and technology to help you better understand your audience where to best engage them and how to measure a tool to realise true potential Oracle data cloud where better outcomes begin visit Oracle data cloud., to learn more.