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Read this: #102: Evans to Virgin, Ball to Breakfast - 1990s throwback special!

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#102: Evans to Virgin, Ball to Breakfast…



Hello and welcome to the media podcast I'm only man on today's show can Chris Evans revitalise Murdoch's radio dreams the war on disinformation and Amazons latest moves onto Netflix territory plus our panel discuss the creeping spread of the Telegraph paywall globals foray into Street ad marketing and in the media quiz we pick the finest Minds in this room against the brains behind Radio 4 new Quiz Book it's all to come in today's Media podcast and your own yesterday is Steve Ackerman MD of content company something else now Steve our listeners should know that by far the most exciting piece of content you having the pipeline is a six-part audio documentary about weight loss hosted by me, but what more minor projects do you have coming up didn't even know.

Fast indeed Steve you didn't even know about exciting.

What's the current headlines are the Can You Feel It series on the BBC just dance music on she done extremely well, and I'm also this week.

We released the first of our original podcasts with the the first one is with Katie Piper from who's starring in Strictly at the moment evil Katie pipers extraordinary people and she meets other amazing people who've been through moment of adversity and come out and provided inspiration and is there a brand involved in that as I was sitting in your lobby the other day and I forgot you do well working with all these different advertisers.

There are there will be a sponsor coming down the track on that yeah, ok and alongside him the man who put love Island in your ears.

It's Matt Deegan wow.

There's an introduction now.

You've been to every radio conference.

They got over the summer including organising one of them.

So what have you learnt so?

A greater maturity in an audio podcasts, I think some of the plane is maybe over and people taking very seriously now and if you gonna do it you're going to do it properly.

I think that's what we hearing.

Look me straight into the whites of my eyes as he says this can send my jocular phone is typing the wrong balance and what else was the best thing that happened in nextradio if there was a great session on a brainstorming being bullshit.

I like brain science idea that you drag 10 people into a room blank sheet of paper and try and come up with some ideas is a good idea from the 50s.

It's been thoroughly debunked by scientists, but we all still do it all the time and it's great guy Kuwait Kingsley from Australia just gave some thoughts and tips about how to think differently about coming up with ideas, but very tough and where you do it to do with things in pairs being very successful Bjork of Lennon and McCartney or Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak other commercial.

Two people can be quite good thing.

You said was your shifts chefs.

Don't sit down and invent you vegetables.

They take vegetables of they come up with the great new Miele first a better way of thinking that start with the banshee a paper is interesting as well isn't Steve how much brainstorming if we are still going to be calling it that still really works when it's face to face but you know I do all kinds of things by slack and text messaging on WhatsApp and email but actually the best ideas often there when you're together with someone else working something called human contact is very powerful thing for all forms of communication more powerful than cutting short sleeve ok.

Let's talk about some of the big radio announcements over the summer Lauren Laverne being moved to six music breakfast Greg James of course starting his new breakfast show on Radio 1 Eddie Mair LBC probably the biggest one though was Chris Evans is he Europe's biggest radio host I believe you moving to Virgin after 8 years at Radio 2.

Before we talk about sable who's replacing him first on his move match.

Why do you think he decided to go so I think it's a beautiful things that he number one.

He's a bit annoyed about having to publish, how much was paid out number to his pay be going down anyway.

I think he's also at that sort of top of his game and I think we sort of Christian O'Connell as well when you move to Australia I think some Talent a thinking they want to test themselves.

Is this have I got this skill or is it the station that's around me and I'm home on my god.

There's there's no bigger challenge than going from a breakfast show has 9.6 million listeners to one that currently has 166000 so I think I think also the support of music or around him and that show I think we questioning yeah, so this is what many listeners still think of Us Murdoch ink basically right, but a lot less asthma not realise they own talk radio talkSPORT and Virgin at Steve do you think for them? This is a strategy that can pay off their.

The biggest Talent for XX music radio station well, they clearly do because they put their money where their mouth is and I think it's fascinating that you have an organisation who don't forget where in radio many years ago.

They they were they originally were part of the people back in Kelvin Mackenzie when he bought talk radio.

They pulled out again and now they're back in and back in her in a fairly significant and an aggressive way and I suppose the exciting thing is for the first time in a long time which singer radio market hot up again in terms of Talent and and the drive to the premium content and I mean these people are not stupid.

They have very very smart business people and they clearly see audio and radio as being a key part of how at the Empire can broaden out beyond newspapers and obviously the weaknesses that are inherent around around the newspaper industry going Chris Evans was last on Virgin Mary had a decent slice of London at least didn't they on FM and they had a Nationwide medium?

Signal neither of which things they have now or are elephant now isn't it with great music formats but not particularly Talent lead so can can Virgin Radio at stabbing herself and became 2 million radio station probably at with quite a bit of effort.

They got good news is they're absolutely no desire to be the third place radio operator.

Yeah, they do not going to market to be number 3.

So this is a strong organic growth from investing in their own products and it will we see more stations will be Philip Seymour requisitions.

This is the beginning of their story I think and do you know any gossip you can shed some light on for a Steve about why Chris might have been unhappy irradiated because there's nothing in his on-air personality of course that indicates that but I suppose you are creatively constrained even by that massive production team doing certain things on a massive mainstream.

I'm afraid you're coming to the wrong person if you looking for got it on then.

I wish I did that something to tell you but I don't like so I don't know Chrissie and now I don't have any any got it on the wonder coming on when it's alright was just this this for me feels very akin to to win a top football clubs are in a when Juventus sign Ronaldo and give a good the transfer fees ridiculous.

Can you add up the shirts sales new adult the marketing and and obviously if you got a very small station that isn't really performing but has a brand name that people might recognise what a surefire way to now get attention and and free marketing bucks and already they've done that's all the pr.

That's been generated and imagine what it's now going to be like when it gets towards launch Hz as well.

Obviously by the might of the actual Murdoch newspapers.

Who who can then push that even further so from a marketing perspective.

I think this is super smart and the just on the music actually as well if this interests me, where do you put a new rock band now because you've got.

Moyles on Radio x and you got Chris Evans on Virgin the message seems to me to be hey did you like the 90s well hear someone you still playing those great songs you heard them by Nirvana and The Smiths songs that are 20 years old at the time, but it what does it mean if you're trying to break new are Radio 1 6 Music even a bit of absolutely bit of Virgin Kerrang there's enough space if you if you want to do you want to find somewhere to to play some guitar songs ok, let's move on to Sobell were you surprised not at all.

I think it would have been extraordinary first of all if Radio 2 hadn't appointed a female posting.

It was clear that that that just would have been a PR disaster and so then you have to start to look at the runners and riders aneuploidy Sara Cox was being mentioned a lot as well there were few outside names like Vanessa Feltz but obviously the front Runner had to be Zoe Ball because she did the Radio 1 Breakfast Show

On brexit because she is a consummate broadcaster, because she has their heritage and she does have the name recognition is well and unfortunately.

I mean we make Sarah show so I love Sarah tremendously and and you know it in one sense.

I'm quite pleased she's she's not moving cos she's doing a brilliant job on the show she's on but in that sense.

I was Heathfield disappointed on her behalf but you can't get away from the fat-soluble probably has big and name recognition amongst the mainstream audience mean after all she she hosts the spinoff Strictly show she is she is a well-known name.

She is a good broadcaster.

It kind of goes from there.

I wonder matter whether she's only ones favourite broadcasting Radio 2 singular Focus is 35 to 55 year old woman that is urinary down a commissioning docs that's that's what they're after and Zoe Ball

Appealing to that audience and it's the younger end of 3545 people watch live and Kicking The Big Breakfast Radio 1 Breakfast Show she is a bigger name in people's Minds since then Sarah Cox's she is well proven to work with mainstream audiences, but if she only ones favourite broadcast.

I don't mean that to be nice to just seems like a lovely woman.

I think she's very competent but she's not but I would probably a bit exciting I like Sarah Cox a lot, but the Sarah Cox is some people's favourite quite a large proportion of people particularly in this is partly because neither of them have had a lot of daily mainstream shows until recently no Zoe doing some weekend Sarah's been doing that evening for a little while, but not a huge amount of time so chat later.

I've been able to sort of built-up that that particular radio relationship, but I may I listen to the Chris Evans

Announcements are not normally occur Chris Evans Radio 2 listener and yeah, that's a big Charlie so it's not really particularly about christians about people and ideas and guests and all sorts of things so I think I actually the move to 23 Broadway to be a huge jump and Charlie Sloth leaving Radio 1 what we think about where I am what I find fascinating about this.

Is it straight on the back of last week's 7tx announcing.

He was going it will be interesting to see where Charlie Sloth is going to cousin take me onto Spotify send texts gone to Spotify which is obviously that is the the really fascinating Quest on that story that he's going to sign up for Spotify for 52 weeks series where he'll be enjoying big hip-hop names but also doing documentaries around knife crime and all sorts of things I mean that's really fascinating you can go to a talent say he was his broad sweep of stuff that we know we want to back you on Charlie Sloth is a bigger name and so be interesting to see is he going.

Danny radio Korean game to another station or is it going to be a move to a Spotify on Apple Warsaw or somewhere else and again? I'm in a bit like the Chris Evans story of the it.

Just reaffirms.

I think the point we were just making about there is this fantastic market going on for Talent and 4 ideas which is not just Radio 4 Just audio in general the fat.

You've got sent.

It's moving from a radio station to a platform who are really backing on-demand content which I just love let's let's see what happens, but look that is a big blow for 1Xtra cos he is one of their stars and he is more of a live radio name isn't even send text onedrive has not the same play strawberry reach the end of being on Radio 1 of an extra in would I have to move on me to hasn't been doing the 8th which is the show the radio one seems to be very much supporting has been doing it with huge matter time as well.

He is interesting different devices, but you know great characters have on the radio.

With my son she would be he's off to capital Xtra himself as essentially so quite big property empire to like oddly like money.

Isn't I would have thought a huge or money from the radiators use driver and the gossipers looking for I wanted this has a property is Charlie Sloth where can you go on Radio 1 1 Xtra would you ever get a better shift and it's like probably not so if something pops up.

That's a bit more interesting on a capital extreme again to a smaller audience back to the sewer Chris Evans thing is that does that the scratches creativity to to grow his breath and he certainly you know with the first one to say in every ego driven loud go I know if you popped up on the capital Xtra breakfast show that might be something that he thinks it's going to be interesting is 5 years ago.

The BBC was always actually pretty good at nurturing telling them moving from one network to an

Darren and your career was based at the BBC inside a dingo otherwise and when you look at people at Trevor Nelson I just pizza and that's exactly what's happened.

They should have more through the different networks was the outcome of the you end up on Radio 2 on sitting there for 25 years ago the Radio 2 Breakfast Show and I suppose with Charlie Sloth I think that's quite a Jolt for the BBC seeing Talent walk out walk out the door who they would have probably expended to still have quite a number of years left with and just leaving for radiator telly.

We still don't know who the Dimbleby replacements can be on Question Time but we do know a bit about their piloting process and it is actually doing it.

Isn't it? They don't dry runs of Question Time with some very established names from the news and current affairs seen they also are you never quite know until you put them in the seats and and and see what you're like.

You'll Be Faith No Kirsty Wark or whoever.

It's been very successful at what they've done.

So isn't that a good thing being opened?

See how it works I do want to know until you actually have the real politicians.

They have been put on the spot where there in the pilots.

I think they are using junior.

I didn't really understand that the noise about this in the sense of course you should be piloting hazmat.

So why wouldn't I wouldn't you put Joan Simon together and see if they are staying with radio sort of cos we talk about global now, but this is advertising.

They are launching themselves onto the street with the acquisition of two outdoor advertisers out so I can be a street and providing our gonna make billboards basic.

Cell billboards at Steve global say they want to enable smart opportunities for advertisers with this.

What do you think they can do that clear channel, Will it just about joining everything up? Isn't it? It's really about being able to join up visor cross multiple platforms minder standing is it's it's it's a bit similar to reggae appetising market in the it at times.

Has really struggled in and suck the moment I think it's it's having it something I said of tuck tuffet.

I'm so in a sense you think will this is actually really quite smart that you can dive in and immediately place yourself in a really significant place in this markovitz.

Put some music number two in that market place to December 2nd of the biggest company in that market place.

It is smart and you know I think when you look at history global and when it first got set up and where they are now with don't like festival stuff as well.

I think I think they are becoming quite formidable business mate.

Would you if you run global would you buy an outdoor advertising company? What are good thing to do it totally fits in with their strategy also they spent what seems to be 2 to 300 million pounds on these two companies know this isn't like her we bought some billboard.

This is this is having them one of the big players now and I was reading some of them.

Write ups about it and a lot of people who were saying all the cosy world of Outdoors suddenly.

Got a new entrant in he might have some different views.

And yeah, we know from the radius actor.

They often disagree with everyone do not care.

What other people think and they push on with their own strategy and they normally have quite a lot of success with this.

I think the what they've got is, what is the radio business eFestivals business and a digital advertising business called Jacks which kind of inserts audio adverts dynamically why can't you bring Daxter digital outdoor using similar systems to buy campaigns across the radio and outdoor outdoor now three billboards outside ebbing radically couldn't even a big campaign have it running across all of global radio stations and TV stations and then on digital billboards at the exact same second also local as well as national and that's the other day and I think outdoor campaigns can be national brucella to be targeted to certain areas who sell without plus bill become a very reminiscent of window.

Came into the radio industry in the same old faces, it is awful in all different forms with a basic been running that that industry for 20 odd years and they came in an absolutely shook things up to anything different degrees and sounds like potential that could happen again.

I think the Other film on global someone said to me that it was interesting was yeah.

He's a big acquisitions and they have got deep pockets and you know I found a family with his wife, but yeah, we are 300 million pounds if he's a big deal that actually does global need to be flipped and bringing a load of more money to do to do bigger things and more things are in the British sector even though the biggest broadcaster, although probably the smallest company of Baron use a bigger organisations, so we are the modern Media world's about scale and I definitely building up the scale and I've not seen an answer to the question.

Will I have not seen anyone asked the question whether lb?

See as now an increasingly credible multi-platform use brand might have an issue with being owned by company that makes all of its money by selling advertising because if a story comes up, you know that on the day of recording McDonald's workers are on strike that story comes up and your biggest client is McDonald's for digital outdoor advertising.

It's hard to imagine.

They wouldn't be an email to the presenters.

So maybe don't mention this don't focus on it.

Everyday is amazing that always rumours that there are such issues Hadley when you get to Bigger companies like that it gets harder to keep track of your hips things doing to try give everyone on message, but yeah, I just like a big Challenge for many media company, but it's not something like about people seem to be worried about my cough comes around that's a big business story as well whilst we were away the biggest really of the year when you zoom out.

I guess is that 21st Century Fox did lose its bid to take full control of Sky after.

Cast one a sealed bid we are both of you guys real predictions most years on the media podcast no one predicted this dimension comcast back in January today.

Just shows are the assumptions about the media world a changing 60 from telecoms companies in big large organisations that are into content and distribution.

I think there's a complexity around Sky Disney taking over the whole organisation and they did want sky blue said they get in effects like a £15.20 billion pound dividend of selling then tested to comcast that they can put into the new Disney Life Disney Netflix in Coronation and also at comcast own a chunk of Hulu and Disney might take all of Hulu now which means they've got like a premium Netflix 1000 months thing and then Hulu a source ad funded Netflix thing, so there's there's probably more.

2 Nations behind the scenes that it seems the only thing is that Sky News somehow got some like regulatory free pass that it gets to exist forever well-funded foot that I can no apparent reason but for the government being argued by the opposition about support of the murdochs means that Sky News is now founded forever.

Just see it was a weird thing and use it for me forever because I got compare levels LEGO Disney I think now.

What do you think? I'm Costa actually going to do with Sky because that there are really big claret your appointment.

That is something comcast wanted will it is interesting isn't it? This is all obviously wrapped up in the bigger players Netflix Amazon and and how will all consuming content I suppose the key question also sent you for someone like me.

Is is what does it mean for for content funding and and what's gonna happen there sky ones always.

Struggle little bit too to have its identity and to know what it's about at the same time in Sky has done brilliantly obviously on sport it's completely Redefined what what sports about but those rights this year of going to be cheaper so in a sense you thing ok, that's quite interesting and but that Mark is is hotting up and movies aren't really the bringing.

They once Were a Sky Arts has played a great role certainly politically for Sky into the same.

Look you know the BBC isn't the only place you can get this other content from and I supposed to be interesting to see how they tie in with the US operations on the content coming out of the Year us operations and and and are there more properties.

They can then bring over for a free UK or European audience sexy to talk about the box itself, but I've actually just been on holiday in Florida staying in an airbnb and they had comcast premium box installed in all the rooms is called XFINITY

This was the pre-match all the sky technology or just be sucked in a blown back out to the other to the other markets.

I mean if I was an American and I was the XFINITY subscriber am I got something like sky Q that would make me stay yet, so that is a big big Gladwell potentially.

I'm so so big global deals around their own continue Disney I'm not going to licence their TV shows and films to other broadcasters anymore, because they're going to a retailer direct-to-consumer.

I think those are all of the people who work for your selling ABC sitcoms to other market to Lichfield age people probably disappear because why would they be doing that so much anymore all those deals being run down so you're not actually think I'd like to have them killed the markets that cut throat but yet, but we'll have to see Micky can be a tough customer tell me about it's easy to see that as well if they're not gonna be sold any of

Disney Channel disappears off of Sky or all of their platforms they need their own content to hold back from from Disney and Netflix and Amazon and Kidspace sky quite relying on Disney and Nickelodeon I guess I've got everyone at the moment and Sky and Nick and Cartoon Network and Sonya in it with the K-pop TV channels, but again as soon as we see Disney having a very kids Focus app know what does that mean for for neck and back on their own it and where do they put their content and beauty in America CBS has its own set of Netflix services that road at internationally know what the moment.

They're building stuff like Star Trek or Star Trek spin offs which sits on CBS in America but it sits on Netflix in the bin, UK and around the world but for how long as as father to a 2-year-old me I say that whoever owns the rights for paw Patrol and blaze in the monster machines.

He's going to be ok.

How to make kebabs I will have more news in brief after this episode of the podcast was recorded run VT in the heart of Soho run BT has offline and online sweets 15 and 2 respectively as well as this very beautiful baselight grading studio where I'm sitting right now be run VT pick of the week by the way is Channel 5 Series walking Britain's lost railways with Rob Bell Friday night 9 p.m.

And On Demand at my 5:20 your next show like they did at runvt go to run bt.tv now by definition is the possibility of achieving more in the fast-paced world of digital advertising Oracle data cloud has built its Legacy on finding the signal through the noise on unlocking potential we bring together data and technology to help you.

To understand your audience where to best engage them and how to measure a tool to realise true potential Oracle data cloud where better outcomes begin visit Oracle data cloud., to learn more hello, I'm a pagan and I'm Mary Robinson we together are the hosts of Mothers of Invention a brand new podcast with one simple mission to show that although climate change is a man-made problem.

It has a feminist gluten-free travel the world to meet the women who are changing their world and your world right now you can find us forever you listen to your podcast subscribe now at mother's of Invention online and join us on social media at mother's indent time to some media news in brief now Stephen Matt still with me and breaking this morning as recorded on a Thursday is the story that most of the Daily Telegraph politics business and rugby coverage.

Is about to disappear behind their premium payroll that's a drive up subscribers and it is just an extension of the existing policy which appears to be working most is widening it out.

I think I'm right in saying that they have a target of trying to get 10 million signups and already this year.

I think is right.

They've had 3 million.

So they making really good progress and I'll see the next stage of that is widening out the amount of content is behind the paywall and I and I think it is thinking when you look at say rugby is an example where they chose not to put football behind a paywall because that's very accessible everywhere and not necessarily associated just with the Telegraph know their football coverage is very strong, but they have put rugby behind a paywall because that's much more than natural home for rugby content I can see that is being a very successful move so I kind in a similarly with business their business coverage.

Obviously competes with people at the times, but is very strong suit is smart and I'm sure it will work for them.

You do some to get frustrated into paying up though, don't you Matt that's the only.

She would it writes it so I the only consumption of Telegraph I have is getting bounced in from social cliques and no suspect and they're the one where I think mostly.

I've got a login a night sometimes you get a free one and sometimes you don't but I I hit the there is no more for you Matt page way more offended anyone else can't open my private tab and still log it all that stuff doesn't work.

I just woken she many Telegraph Media I won't be exposed to them as a brand new understand that rugby is really great, but they do a liver going to buy the print edition.

What are you doing today? Because I wonder if there's a demographic issues there as opposed to the times, so I'm 30% will buy a paper.

Copy of the Times occasionally.

I'm too young by a paper.

Copy of it.

So my only concern Telegraph online.

It wasn't like the Times Where I would occasionally by the paper as we get enough subscribers.

It's fine.

Williamson verticals Abu Dhabi how I don't see how I can get into Telegraph content with that as a strategy, I think the other it's in shimla.

Telegraph is actually they doing quite a big push Into You audio and free to air audio so maybe that's the way and I don't know where the the the challenge obviously for all of the newspapers is it's an industry.

That's that's struggling and they have to think that finally waking up to the fact that got to be a bit more revolutionary in in in trying to find new revenue streams and so the ID we've seen has been lots of experimentation going on the party as the Guardian and this is just reading latest iteration of that that they got start experimenting.

They got to dive into video and audio and other places because because the old model is is it is a broken model and ultimately is not going to work when I guess all of what we used to think of his quality broadsheets now, so we have to leave the X Telegraph the Guardian are asking for money in some form or they gone away the Independent

Frankie is a brown Disney is not the same as it used to call.

I think we'll get the Independent is it has jettisoned its Brand and turned into quality of food.

Is it mean it's it's really really clickbaiting you land on those pages and it's like 17 hours units in about 300 trackers.

Yeah, they were they have Jetsons any idea that they've the what what they used to be for the walls of might work, but they've got enough affinity with there audiences that maybe don't want to spend 5 quid a month 10 quid a month but will chuck some money and effective tip job.

It's a tip so that makes them 50 60 million quid ok latest in the war between Amazon and Netflix is that prime have signed Neil Gaiman and Bear Grylls in a bid to keep subscribers hooked good move Steve what is all about premium content, isn't it?

With new game with the writing with Bear Grylls as a as a visible for the brand I suppose he's everywhere that he's also have in the UK so are you going to sign him exclusively that provides you with a significant audit who instantly recognise what he's about and therefore for his type of content may come to eat it.

It's pretty similar isn't it to the Jeremy Clarkson move in the Sense of an audience who will who will recognise what he stands for who does that mean he is going from all the shows its associated with at the moment.

If it is exclusive that means the island without Negril green.

Screen old bits of Bear Grylls into this.

I think they keep the key question with Bear Grylls is when is an is he still going to be allowed to wear his Bear Grylls Brown jumpers on every.

TV show you say presenting but but no one else wears.

That's the way it is like the whole line exists only for him to wear and Matt do you remember the show that he's allegedly rebooting eco Challenge for the first time round aware of the most evil person in the room but I don't really know not exactly a trusted brand however Dad's Army I mean so what you like about Dad's Army and people have been for 60 years.

It's still massive Ismail BBC 2 on a Saturday night and gold filming lost episodes of Dad's Army is that right they are again.

It's it's brand recognition isn't it? You go is difficult for God to launch an original show the cost of acquiring these scripts is probably a little bit more than what they pay for view similar new script and internet be like oh, it's the same ol it's dreadful of in generate loads of social discussion.

I'm sure be hooked into repeating that in the 15 episodes of the exist of the bloody program and Channel 5.

Top 100 Dad's Army moments style sure I'm sure we'll sit alongside it sounding cynical to me now.

I agree with him and you podcast to showcase the best of BBC local stories launches on 10th of October hosted by producer Becca bryers.

It's called multi-storey.

What is it? So this is the best of local radio stories in podcast form accurately? Yeah, I think I think it's sort of having listened to it.

So they might do ago was listen to it.

So why I hope they do is something that doesn't go on and on about this being a story from BBC Radio Northampton and this one from Derby no one cares about that if it's focused on great storytelling that happens to come out of those places near that small difference makes such a difference in how people consume this material all of the evidence points to any form of capture.

Radio catch up in podcasts does not work and I'm kind of ignoring your Radio 4 type programs where it's you know.

It's a big brand or it's something that uses for like a best of the moil share off a best of something just doesn't work.

It doesn't rates not any of the charts.

I don't know what my hook would be to listen to this.

I think this is actually about Sony's about taking stories and including that include old story as well, they might so I think the example they've given in the Press releases is the story of a guy I've never been out outside his village and they travel on the train to London or something.

I'm going to come back and revisit to him to find out what one to his story it feels to me like a slightly cheap British version of this American Life however has Matt says no one's heard this so let's give him a chance but we do know there are hard-working journalism producers in the summer graduation rustic country reporting really interesting things that never get hurt and is and there's obviously on a local level.

Is the place to find those really fascinating human interest stories that could grip you but it's really all in the production in the storytelling when you think about what the Great American podcast do so much of that is in the narrative of the host and really great writing actually even as audio.

It's great writing and Zoe injured in weather BBC local radio journalist have that have that ability and also the packaging of that you know can you understand what you gonna get from the cover art from the title from the trailer that sits around it yeah, this is it is it is really hard to establish a podcast now.

It's a lot of great people coming into the sector live BBC themselves seemingly chilling out a couple of New Year podcast a week from the central team.

It is so you can be seen with two to get to ME9 multi-storey not a great title either.

Is it really gonna snow this American Life is it?

I do wonder whether you were saying it takes the brands away from the local stations if they're smart but then you possibly are arguing against the local stations in the first place in single if I am as interested in a man from Liverpool when I'm in Devon is it on Radio Merseyside pens? What your Desire is you know if you want to be the number one podcast in Northampton by being having a great in Northampton angle on something.

That's the core lambda.

Sensor has not if you want to try and be a national thing that comes out of some great local producers.

That's a more complex skill tube to execute on ok time for our own national phenomenon.

It is of course the media quiz.

Raw this week, we're putting our guests against the brains behind Radio 4 was new Today programme puzzle book price 1299.

I'm going to read the question if you know the answer you buzzing with your name so Steve you will say Steve and Matt you're saying that ok fastest voice box first.

Let's play These genuine questions from the Today programme puzzle book France is Marseille Germany is Hamburg Italy is Milan Spain is Barcelona what is the UK

Mats mats, London to good guess it's wrong Steve would you like to contest when you get a city they Manchester if you were right that would be great for your uncle at the answer is Birmingham any ideas why secondcity yes, they are the second largest cities in each country by population.

Yeah ok question of a team.

They were patented in London in 1845 and Colombian drug Baron Pablo Escobar was spending $1,000 a week on them at the height of his success, but what are the mats mat rubber bands? Yes, you rent you know I've seen that is what comes next two-faced.

God war god spring goddess what?

When you know you'll kick yourself that I mean that you one anyway, but go on yeah animal God he's game I like without those had a guest don't you? I feel humiliated this edition of the mood.

It's like when you watch Only Connect the brand values answer of course is Julius Caesar Julius Caesar they are the sources for the names of every other month starting at January January is named for Janus the two-faced god March from Mars the God of War may for mayor the spring goddess July of course for Julius Caesar kicking yourself on Tuesday and kicking myself well mate, congratulations.

You are today's winner with one right answer and Steve as well.

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