Read this: #90 - Guardian Changing Media Summit 2018 - The Media Podcast with Olly Mann

Hello and welcome to the media podcast being simulcast for one exciting week across podcast feeds at both the Guardian and the media podcast.

Because we are coming to you this week from the Guardians changing Media summit 2018.

I'm only man and on today show will discuss some of the key trends in international media with a crack team of high-powered delegates the big Media stories of the week as per usual including comcast audacious bid for sky tv.

And what the end of levison to means for Fleet Street it all together today podcast and for the first part of today's show we have located ourselves in the glamorous surroundings of the Green Room at the BFI Southbank there are three marshmallow biscuits, so I'm very happy and joining me we welcome back.

Editor of the new European and our chins chief content officer Matt Kelly and making her Media podcast debut is the CEO and editor of the pool Sam Baker know you're both on panels here today at you've been discussing balance and objectivity in political reporting.

This is the changing Media summit, so what's changed much has check if I think this idea that things have changed is a bit of romeus and you know people often talk about how much more partisan the media is becoming and that we're all living in Echo Chambers and I've been thinking about that a lot since launch the new European and I think it's complete nonsense.

I think it's the opposite is true.

I think for a start the idea that hyperpartisan newspapers and publications are new is just nonsense you know you go back to the New York Post being founded by Alexander Hamilton specifically to rubbish Thomas Jefferson tuna or The Economist being launched specifically to repeal the corn laws.

This is just the way that new publications arise.

You know when the heat of her other particular issue or an emotion and then the idea that we all living in Echo Chambers I think it's if the reverse is true.

I think we've never been exposed to more desperate viewpoints than they are today.

I think 25 years ago you had a choice where your picture newspaper and then you listen to the news at 9 at night, which was much more fact-based and it is these days and that was your echo chamber these days if you want social media you exposed to an extraordinary spectrum of contents ok, but then your justification for partial newspapers like yours being a news source and classified as new source is basically.

It's part of a wholemeal a hold of news that the only works that argument if people are exposed to lots of other new but we know there are people that basically just read the Daily Mail they exist well yeah poor then.

I mean you think there is a danger with partial news that but there is an echo chamber issue that people are just hearing their views reflected back at them.

I just feel like I agree complete the whole echo chamber for the people.

I know who live in the most echo chamber are my parents and my friends to read the Daily Mail and only talk to people read the Daily Mail and so only get one point if you but actually because it when you just brush Maori people at just reading her as well.

You know but because it's a newspaper they think you're not like that by us, what is that all these papers have to take a refreshing I think about the new European isn't it? Not been able to go out.

There's a very very slowly especially this is what we think this is what we aim for maybe arguably some of the others aren't as open with their bum in a thing we talked a lot about honest partisanship and dishonest partisanship, and I think you know you'd have to be an absolute full be mistaken about what an European stands for and that's not necessarily the case with more mainstream.

Spares and I won't just because you could include the mirror in this.

I know I spend a lot of time working at the mirror and I know that half of the mirrors audience think it's sorta conservative leaning newspaper bee tuna people don't think about media the way we in the media think about media.

They're not that sophisticated about thinking about the media.

Why should they be you'll never be like you no thinking about the ins and outs of plumbing.

You know it's an abstract to them this idea of journalism.

They think about what paper source of reflects their values, but the values are so hidden in mainstream.

Media that is often quite easy to think that a paper stands for something when it when it actually doesn't seem that that's why I think it's dangerous and can be abused by editors who can sneak a message in over a long period of time on a quite pointed agenda that seeps into the national consciousness in a very dishonest untransparent way, I would say and when it comes to broadcast Media

Time do you think the rules are broadly right because there are some who would say the library to make the we see in the UK news media and actually be unregulated suffer happens online.

We'd like to see a bit more of that and telly and radio you know it's boring having everything being impartial especially when directions to be thinking that we had to be bipartisan that we had to be neutral that we shouldn't have a political bias that we shouldn't have even a gender bias and that soon turned out to be completely wrong if people wanted to read the women Focus content Laura put out now the women Focus news and actually in recent research with some people have said that she'll be like that.

It's got a point of view.

We don't like being just like pedal this ostensibly straight line and you're very specific as well.

Aren't you basically for busy women that's your strapline right, so it's it's female focused and it's going to work.

I think I mean.

On the panel in a minute to talk about social media in the oldest social medias played and the pool wouldn't exist without social media no question about it, but that's because it gave us the capacity to form you know we didn't have loads of money all we had with the following a social media so we talk to her audience be after what we wanted and then we gave it to them people who are coming in and out and what the shape of their lives is it is governed by their work and their family and their device at the end of the day, so that's kind.

What we mean by that some of your readership is through quite the old-fashioned mechanic of of email list there, isn't it? Yeah and they are the most I mean that's one of the good things about our model is that the old fashioned email mechanic that audience is so loyal to you someone in the morning.

So can you be my briefing basically if you haven't, isn't that you're using newspapers.

So if you're using email.

This is a model that existed a long time ago.

Is your average email open rate is incredibly low and click-through rates, but I'll just really really hard because we give them something that's useful that they consume on the way to work every day, but the pool is built like a radio program.

So it's not flat like a newspaper or magazine.

It's it changes shape throughout the day and we deliver content in a broadcast model throughout the day according to can what mood the audiences in so it's a very user Focus model ok, and what are you going to be talking about in your session then obviously political Focus at the moment is on Google and Facebook and Twitter and Snapchat and whether they are platforms or whether they are publishers.

God.

That's how I feel about it's agreed to talk about.

I thought why did you do that? I feel completely torn because like I said we wouldn't exist without social media.

It gave a business with no money the opportunity to launch, but at the same time.

We are all via Facebook and Google alright.

You are play now and other other Monopoly duopoly get regulated.

So you know it's different and Facebook

Like Facebook just changed its algorithm month ago and I don't know where that I don't know how to paint in your on social media, but the first day that they they did that of the engineering we went from an average reach on a piece of 30 35000 within an hour to one with the writer and one with people to people when was the writer and one with me and is that paid Reacher was that on Facebook that point they were trying to limit organic, but they completely that mellowed out within a couple of days and you know now.

It's completely back to normal.

We are a local Media just on that because I didn't hear appeal but my day job is auctions which is one of the biggest publishers of magazines and newspapers in the country and their local brands.

We we benefited immediately from the the algorithm change because you go and ask Mark Zuckerberg identifying.

Local community based content and we also had benefited from an uplifting that supposed trusted local brands as well possibly.

Do you know it's easy to say sausage that's fine.

We are all in Hook to these make decisions from people in Silicon Valley got 25000 people who played £2.50 a week and that that's the business model and I think that's a nice business model to help you know provide business model t.

They just don't pay to make a serious point around that I think businesses that are dependent on Canon digital display advertising that isn't sold at a premium around that brand or in a huge amount of trouble going forward and the government's argument at the moment is that because the world has moved on since the first Leveson Inquiry a second one isn't Messi

Because I kind of issues that you're talking about Sam because online who cares whether someone 10 years ago hack your emails.

There's issues now about fake news coming out of Russia and whatever is that right? Is it right to say we shouldn't be focusing on what levison said 5 years ago, or is this the case to answer that really cost a lot of money and its focus and the press has a lot of other problems now that are going to restrict its freedom a lot more than that so I don't think it's a bad idea to step away from it for sure but will only work for them of you agree with that.

I think the problem for me with levison.

It said it's looking backwards effectively had a problem that I no longer.

I no longer believe exists and I think what the government should be doing and he's doing in part to be fair is to look forward and to say what does media become because if you just isolate media as an interesting little subset of society and you know it's a problem in its own box.

That's that that is.

Missing the point completely in other media is literally the Fabric of our communication or Society everything so how's things fragments and change and business models changing new actors come onto the scene the whole dynamic around Media will change with it and that I think is the point where we need to understand what effect will that have on on kids at school people in pubs in football fans on terraces? What will they be thinking rather than what will a bunch of barristers and senior editors and and litigants be thinking in some some room in the Queen Elizabeth Senza Una finally on this.

Am I mean as a small business effectively.

I'm sure you would not welcome more regulation but on the other hand if the government to intervene to regulate kind of content you make what is the sort of thing they should be looking well.

I was thinking about really the thoughts around regulation of Facebook and I think it's it's kind of like any advertising model maybe it's question that you regulate the Advertiser solo.

All the stuff that came out yesterday about looking at Flitwick levitating on Facebook political advertising is regulated.

So it should be regulated everywhere.

So you know to regulate Facebook because you can target based on whether or not someone likes yoghurt seems to me to be a bit curious into its Jim Waterson the Guardians new Media Router say hello Jane hello congratulations on the job.

Thank you very much.

It's going to be it can be a bit different be doing politics for 6 years now, but we going to be switching over to media in it in April is tricky questions to ask new employer has not working for you at what do you suspect might be different about the way the Guardian might do things compared to BuzzFeed make something go viral.

Where's the Guardians got the luxury which I think is going to be more and more important as actually having a really cool readership you buying to the products and support it and in many cases even pay for it now directly so actually.

Having that audience who are coming to you directly is gonna be a really big change from working someone like BuzzFeed we were actually talking about your appointment on the last edition of the media podcast saying that's part of the reason behind it was that you as an individual on social media command and audience and a trust and credibility even there is a difference via politics near media and actually is there an element where you're going slightly have to step back from your personal role and say I'm a guardian now mind me is completely the right decision and I will bye bye completely I do think that there is a thing with the oddness of journalist now having some public personas in the way, they would before previously fed switch to 20 years ago from the times for the Guardian let's be honest.

The only people in notice would be a few peers and a few regulars and then readers of the new paper would slowly notice.

Hopefully better quality stories or something like that, but fundamentally wouldn't be a big deal.

Now journalist, I mean I can take my Twitter followers with me to the new job and hopefully most of them off stick with me and therefore you've got sort of an audience for your stuff that you can to a certain extent self promote and getting people to actually read your stuff out regardless of where you working in.

Hopefully find all them now the new job towards guardian.

Ok? What have you supposed to be coming up at today something that you are actually excited to hear what I'm really intrigued by is Martin Sorrell because he has got a very tricky job at the moment trying to balance this enormous Media conglomerate where there's no talking to some of the new startups around here trying to completely cut people.out wpp and other agencies out of the equation by giving people the ability to buy all the ads on Facebook directly by giving them bility to automate all the processes that currently offered through a nice manager.

He takes his 10% cut his justification for why he's taking the company is going to be very interesting.

And also I guess his reaction to the new competition.

That's out there, but just doesn't require an operation that large ya know someone who enjoys people in Media stores industry in thinks.

It's good to have sort of jobs based in the UK is worrying that basically everything seems to be flowing through California at the moment that said I mean you go to Facebook's HQ and there seems to be taking over half of London every time they built a new building they've got another one is so it's been put up you're going to get offered a lot of free lunches now, aren't you from Facebook and Google you got to be careful my buffets to think that is a real problem.

You've got a lot of very very powerful people all working for a two or three company's previously if you're coming the media you have the Indie production houses you can have as much power as some of the broadcasters and certainly for about 1220 years you've had all these channels where you been able to get your stuff, but out there now everything so focused that how you report on Facebook and Twitter is going to be a key part of the job and hopefully one day.

I'll be on the right side of your don't tell them because it is really good I've been

I know in your tweet announcing your Move from Busby to the Guardian you actually said that media reporting these days is a bit like political reporting never more so than when covering what's going on at Sky at the moment and Murdoch and Disney and all of the shenanigans that are happening around that what what's your take on the big news this week which is that comcast are looking to buy sky from right under Murdoch's nose as he likes a good bit of colour.

I can't get my head past the the wonderful line for out by the Conchords both that he decided it after getting a cab around London and being impressed by the cabbies knowledge of the Sky box.

No, I don't care if that's absolute rubbish.

It's such a good is such a good tale, but I think the thing is interesting from my new beaters.

What that means to Sky News and people have sort of been talking to that have since become a pro comcast I'd say almost at their very worried about Disney coming in and what Disney will actually feel about despite all the reassurances.

What does haemophilia bout maintaining? What is essentially a loss-making channel that Rupert Murdoch originally set up live.

To gain influence with politicians and why that would be needed under the new regime and the noises I'm hearing from comcast AFC have substantial news operations already.

That's why people be quite amenable to that thing is we went a few weeks ago from discussing whether people taking jobs at Sky News now.

I should feel safe to actually.

They're being almost erase to promise them ever longer careers.

You've got Murdoch and Disney and I'm busy now also yeah, I will put more money into Sky News will be fine.

I won't be too worried if I scan using let me know it but yes, they are winning Awards other week.

I think they're in a really good place.

I think that they're online offering is getting much better, so I wouldn't be too worried and it be if very very very bold purchaser who chose to shut them down mainly because lot of MPs like going on it and you won't want to take them on and take them off a potential by definition is the possibility of achieving more in the fast.

World of digital advertising Oracle data cloud has built it's like I say on finding the signal through the noise on unlocking potential we bring together data and technology to help you better understand your audience where to best engage them and how to measure a tool to realise true potential Oracle data cloud where better outcomes begin visit Oracle data cloud., tullamore joining us for her Media podcast debuts his very exciting she's great.

I've met her in real life.

It's Nicky birch founder of resina Sound hello Nicky Byrne hello.

How are you? I'm very welcome to the show now basically Now work with smart audio right.

That's your thing the difference because we met when you were just a humble audio producer making radio shows and podcasts, but now it's about voice activated devices.

So this is echo and homepod and Google home.

I'm looking at exploring what formats you can do it.

Taking audio beyond just a linear form, so it's interactive and it's really exciting opportunity for audio producers and that's what it's all about the conference as well, so it's brilliant and also talked about it with you is Jason Phipps head of R&D at the Guardian I've heard of it Jason do you agree that this is an exciting moment or do you think are such a small device as with the format and content for its fine they just MP3s yeah.

I think it's it's exciting and terrifying in equal measure.

I think it's a real kind of shifts in the nature of what we do.

I think it goes beyond the MP3 and just staring at microphone as I am now.

I think it's really about and your merging kind of audioweb like the internet of voice and I think it's also about people pivoting away from visual interactions into audio voice interactions so I I think it couldn't be more momentous.

I really think that but I mean obviously I'm in my bubble isn't audio bubble.

What if feels that way very much feels that way let's talk about some actual real world examples of what this could mean because a lot corporate Busby about this Watson an interactive Audio show that can use my voice examples you have a really basic linear form.

Which is listening to the radio on a voice device but you are in a but you have instructions through voice what song's playing turn that over to another station who's on the pause rewind skip things like that which are really really useful tools and I've already been showing to handle the huge take up intensive radio listenership, but it would BBC skill launched in late, December have a million unique users already.

I mean that's quite impressive.

It's already there most the highest biggest digital platform for listening to Radio and it's only 3 months old so you know you is a really huge kind of change and once you get beyond that it's looking at Voice first formats are not just gone of transporting.

What Radeon podcast do or intervoice.

It's thinking ok will now we can interact whether it's talking to her live presenter or whether it.

Actually having concept that you can move and Direct yourself around from an advertising perspective.

It's obviously really interesting because it's got potential click-throughs effectively to purchase.

It's got feedback for folding Sister Act feedback.

It's a really unknown an interesting area and I just want what will be like to add in terms of creatively.

You know that who knows what we're going to do.

It's really interesting and I'm a creative perspective.

It's it's audio producers are really that you had a new position because they can be thinking we have the skills already in terms of delivering content from audio perspective, but we also have to learn digital skills thinking about user experience and design things like that which perhaps audio producers haven't done before so it's a really it's a big learning curve and it's a big learning opportunity.

It's very exciting you know I haven't thought about the feedback thing before but now has a former LBC phone-in house.

It's actually quite an appealing idea isn't this concept people shouting at the radio as they can and literally say call him and from there kitchen whilst drinking my wine.

They can be on the radio.

Yeah, I think that basic text interaction.

I think that happens with live radio will change radically but like I think it's one of those who knows that fills me with excitement and not dread really because it offers so many interesting tools and iterations, but then it was a very differently around everything into one set of audio market smart speakers will serve this market.

I don't I don't think so I think I think it will have a really interesting proposition for linear and then it will have a very different but interesting proposition 4 podcast which is effective the on-demand end of of the kind of linear proposition and then it will have a totally different outcome in terms of just basic audio interactions tools like at the moment.

We haven't even seen any kind of business break out and I know that our corporate sales around that are going to be built around this when I Amazon has ambitions specifically.

I'm sure Google has ambitions, so there's just like world that hasn't yet been matched, but you can't ignore it.

I mean that's the whole session to that you can't ignore it.

You have to serve confronted and somebody.

Simple simple things which everybody used to think I might company brands sounds like this.

We've got a sound or you've got like you know it's at the beginning of it of the opening of a machine but now you must you have to have an unbelievably complex and worked out idea of what your brand of what your product of what you sound like you.

You are not only that nuanced one where you going to send it to someone in the states.

Are you know you have a global one in the national on one of those things haven't really been worked out there running through people's Minds are frantic right at the moment and are they running through the mines.

Do we think of people in Silicon Valley or do they not massively care about podcasts and radio really because it's all very well saying if you work in the industry or this is great.

Great challenge fact is if I say to my home pod at home hey Siri take one of your shows Jason hey Siri play me the latest episode of Football Weekly it will play it but if I say play me the episode of Football Weekly from two weeks ago.

It doesn't understand what I'm saying that so basic, but it seems like there's Steps Behind what it needs to be.

Appoint will be wearing like in the internet with some basic you now so the HTML pages and clunky links and no formatting and and also I think what Nikki said is right which is it's also kind of linguistic challenge.

It's I think it's the challenge will go beyond people in the audio in in journalism or in content creation.

I think it'll involved in a technologists linguists content creators automated building essentially a kind of an internet of voice and so think of think of all the issues that have to be resolved over the last 20 years and just creating some crappy apps that we have an iPhone now you know even the best ones are not even great and you think of that that mountain to climb a really at the foothills.

I would also say it is beyond audio it it will come into use a really overused phrase disrupt television to and I think that's something we know we'll see next year.

We'll ok.

This has much bigger impact than just I'm just audio producers cos you will be able to interact with TV just in the way that you.

Interact with voice now so I think it's a bit broader and wider and it's so it's kind of the utilities around our house the utilities in terms of our phone and I access to a personal computer but it also is Lauren Steadman devices across all mediums and Anna Google particularly are hammering homework.

They call multimodal which is the home screens audio everything working together in terms of voice so I think it's going to be Halloween pattern a good positions audio producers because we are at the forefront of this but it will be it will be much more kind of them prolific across all media and also just come back to your circle back to your question which I think was a really really good one which is you think that the companies have created these kind of devices understand the nature of what look what they've done.

I actually don't think they entirely do I think it's always in retrospect meeting back.

We think of Steve Jobs in must have known all of this and I think no I think there's a kind of driver for devices and for various kinds of technologies and then suddenly the consequences on for tonight.

The consequences of these devices and these tools will be more profound than anyone sort of figures out at the moment and I really know that not a name names would have sat down with couple of big platforms are making tangible sense that are not sure exactly what they just created it's it's it's you can feel like in the room that I would agree.

They didn't necessarily create an entertainment device.

They created a utility device a command and control device or I could order pizza.

I could order a taxi.

I could do that's what it was built to do and now it's been already used in much more broad abroad uses which is fantastic for the platforms there happy about that, but they're having to can you play catch up in how they deliver that consent in taking long and we find ourselves in the bar.

I just been joined by Media writer Jane martinson welcome back to the show J thank you for having me and also former ad exec Cindy gallop now.

You've got your session coming up Cindy Jamie just done one.

What were you two.

We talking about platforms and publishers really although the during the course of the panel what we discussed about that she the term platform is a bit ridiculous in a world in which that the distinction of becoming so blood so it was really about the news ecosystem, and how it's broken and what we can do about it.

What did we learn is that there is a real mood towards regulation towards government trying to take my responsibility.

I think the news industry he recognise how brilliant social media and online platforms have been for their own business have also realised that they've got to be no letting the Trojan horse and now I'm trying to work out what to do about it before they will burn to the ground so I didn't move towards trying to work something out.

We had a massive to nappy from Google on the panel on with Damian Collins cgmp and I didn't matter was saying you know it's really complicated.

We all know it's complicated.

I think as long as we're trying to work out a solution interestingly there was no one from Facebook you know how to fit 20.

Thousand + employees they want to talk on Facebook could come onto the panel and discuss what Facebook as doing about it on this weekend, but he was essentially as a kind of funny piece about the slightly but he was saying Facebook basic.

Don't care what we do in Britain or indeed Europe it only matters.

What happens in California well actually, what's really interesting about that night agree, but I would say they increasingly behave and Facebook and lots of these supranational groups behave as if not that they just don't care what happened in the UK but they don't care what's happening in California don't care.

What's happening with elected officials because supranational organisations act on a global basis and what you do as they're not a politician as an elected politician.

He still do they give the impression they think it's small beer I mean I don't if you if you listen to the panel in which obviously that UK select committee went out to Washington and had Facebook Twitter and Google and give evidence.

And Adam you saying that you know that came across a situation where Facebook said they've been paid for a found out that been paid for US political advertising with Weevils and when political leadership asked why they haven't done anything about it.

They said they gave the impression well wouldn't know we had to know that it's money.

Why should we can actually think about political advertising just British law political advertising typically you know all advertising is O2 Cineworld lots about this is well.

There are strong horse about political advertising around the world because obviously biased and rigging elections at and fraud is not just an issue in terms of The Entity the economy, but in terms of politics.

That's the whole other ballgame.

So of course it matters.

Are you need to be a supranational organisation doesn't care about it at that cannot be sustainable.

Just about The New Seekers this.

Who is Jane put it was actually about advertising as well isn't it in fact in my talk? I'm going to be addressing.

What lies at the absolute heart of all of the issues that that have been debated a so I thought I found this morning fascinating issues.

I am speaking about responsibility in advertising do we have any and what is it? And I am giving us as I'll be announcing right up front a highly subjective talk because I believe we absolutely do I believe we have three specific areas of responsibility in the ad industry.

I'm going to speak to each other and that the very first one and I fully anticipate by the way when I when I put the slide up people going to be you no thinking what is she on our first responsibility as the advertising industry is to REdesign the future of technology that sounds ludicrously big and and probably not going to think how why the hell is that our responsibility.

And the reason for that is an and I will be presenting some quotes and anecdotes dinner straight.

There's the founders of the gigantic tech platforms that dominate the future Lionel Street have one thing in common.

They all absolutely bloody hate advertising and it's very ironic Larry and Sergey when they started Google said we will never run appetising on Google and get to 95% of Googles revenue comes to advertising David Karp of Tumblr famous Leanne down stomach inspired advertising had the back pedal rapidly when you walked Tumblr and then when 41a monetize brand partnerships jung-hyun the co-founder of WhatsApp when Facebook bought WhatsApp for 17 billion dollars a couple years ago when I promise you I will never interrupt you so much is the issue when you absolutely bloody hate advertising and yet? It is a necessary evil because your huge rounds of funding gigantic evaluations and your mum disciples are all predicated on advert.

Icing on your investors and wall streets believe that you'll be able to monetise those millions of eyeballs and threw up essentially and yet you answer despise it you will never ever leverage the power of technology to actually create the future.

Have a charging very interesting ways that an Instax secondly you will do the exact opposite and that is what has driven everything.

It's been complaining about and then discuss this morning and so we have a responsibility to completely REdesign that and I'm going to tell her industry how to view what if actually the way to REdesign the industry is to go back to Founding principles advertising isn't a necessary evil.

We made a mistake having it and we should have just charge subscribers actually that's never going to happen and so that's all I'm addressing very real barrier, but there is another underlying reason why we are debating.

What will be the division today and that is that the founders of everything when is tech platforms exemplify? What is true?

Baroness tree which is that the or a closely but white guys talking to white guys, but otherwise so as I was listening to you about your your discussion your panel saying it's really frustrating because I was thinking when I contacted my own tech startup make love not porn which is the world's first social sex video sharing platform in is celebrating real-world sex as a counterpoint to form the Rosary and great use of the word contacted me.

Thank you.

I miss you sort iron.

My pedometer female team did back in 2011.

You know when we spent every two years.

I'm designing my lovely poem we sat down we also serve as we build what is essentially a social sex tech platform.

What are the worst case scenarios that could possibly happen and we designed them out literally.

We thought so we'll go when you're going to like Yoda something that never done before socially share the real world sex.

We sort through every possible ramification of that to create a completely safe and

Bodyspace and that was through the female lens, which has been sickly missing it in in the design of all these platforms and the operation and it's not a problem is because white men are the least harassed and abused group on the internet women and people of colour no abuse no harassment and when we create Ventures we design it out.

Will we take account of it? We go, how can we prevent this? We just sort it out.

It will aware of it and so you know when you have a massively white male dominated tech world with a white white male dominated tech platforms everything that the wheel again debating discovery on the stage.

I guarantee you would not be issues in the same way if they were gender equal and diversity in designing and running an operating as platform ok.

I think about point we do have to wrap up because the mini hamburgers are making my way around the room that is it from our show for today.

My thanks Jane martinson Cindy gallop, Matt Kelly Sam Baker Jim Waterson divert and Jason phipps and thank you also to the guard.

Text me back if you are new to the show, did you know that you can get new episodes as soon as they're released by subscribing for free at our web-site the media podcast., and if you've been with us for a while and you value what we do that.

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Maybe years to come head TV media podcast dot.com / donate and give generously I'm only getting the producer Matt Hill and the media podcast is 8 PPM production until next time bye bye.

Potential by definition is the possibility of achieving more in the fast-paced world of digital advertising Oracle data cloud has built its Legacy on finding the signal through the noise on unlocking potential we bring together data and technology to help you better understand your audience where to best engage them and how to measure a tool to realise true potential Oracle data cloud where better outcomes begin visit Oracle data cloud.

Come to learn more.