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Read this: #81 - Google caves over paywalls, ITV vs Newsnight - The Media Podcast with Olly Mann

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#81 - Google caves over paywalls, ITV vs…



Hello and welcome to the media podcast I'm only man on today's yo Google abandons.

Its assault of newspapers.

What do the new arrangements mean for the ft.

The time is the alternative Media in a guerrilla war with the mainstream Nick Robinson thinks so is he right also on the show ITV aims for Newsnight viewers Channel 4 edges closer to finding a new J Hunt why Clare Balding created as Saga for Saga and in the media quiz we welcome the return of celeb Jack it's all to come today podcast and joining me today is the executive editor for Business Insider UK Jake and her friend of the show hello Jake and making her Media podcast debut its Rebecca gillie.

Hi you're a writer for the week online but you are perhaps best known for your 2011 appearance on University Challenge

Stick that up from is it on YouTube can we watch it actually known YouTuber that is a YouTube video where they put our team on the bottom in The Stone Roses on the top and made it look like their press conference answers answers to the questions.

I am in a mildly viral video.

How was packed? So you know you was really really nice although he laughed at us for getting Virginia Woolf for a photo in and out to be her sister BBC he was just judging you for having jump to such an affair with a loser blame University Challenge semi-final unfortunately.

Have you met pack so I'd like to have that we all want to see that interview Party Conference season at the moment though Jake you must be delighted without what was your your Media highlight was an embarrassment of Riches where was still sort of recovering from Wednesday really happy.

I sent to reporters up to Manchester I think everyone was a bit taken aback by

Happened to Jane Theresa May speech particularly interesting with Lee Nelson Amy he's he's a divisive character.

Isn't it some people absolute him the name of the comedian was playing when he's kind of known as Lee Nelson isn't something I think he's fantastic resource simple metaphors, which work brilliantly on front pages yesterday was a great example with the P45 and then set Blatter was genius with the sharing and cash that was actually quite good thing is that visual image? I'm sorry for the prime minister's no one's talking about the detail but I mean actually as a digital journalist.

You got three sort of Twitter ready things they haven't you got the letters falling off the wall 42 hours style you got the P45 and you've got the coughing a yeah.

I mean as great I was doing so.

Shift yesterday so whenever stories of the day was Twitter reacts to Theresa May's speech which was really an embarrassment of Riches it was kinda hard to keep it Ltd you did have a discussion this morning with a talking is about what would you do should she have taken the P45 or not? Because they're naked sick.of.it way it gave the photographers lots of changes to get pictures of a holding a P45 but then what else do you do when someone's waving something in your face when you're trying to make speeches you can have took it like a angry headmistress taking something or someone in assembly open problematic.

Ok? Let's start our media news of the week with Google who have ditched their first click free strategy.

Nothing this week publishers.

Won't have to give away free articles to be featured in Google Search results Rebecca explain this because a lot of people think don't even realise this policy exists they just type into Google News they expect to see the most relevant search results even if it is behind a paywall the way that it.

Write with when you had your Google Search results you clicked on and asked that came from a publication of the pay will you could see the first three clicks from that so the first three clicks through from setresult you could see beyond the pale if you tried click on anything else in the website then you would get the paper or publish hated this because people getting too much free content basically so Google an hour shift to the stands and they're going to watch called flexible sampling which means their polishes themselves can choose how much free content you can see if any I mean same to me that was ever Google's decision to tell a publisher but they should be giving their stuff away for free.

I'm in their whole mission was about making the web searchable and if that includes paywall content then so be it surely.

It's a pretty extraordinary power.

I guess it's bad news headlines and consumes.

I'm not saying I do that but you know it hands back power to the publishers and that's the way it should be it's part of ongoing grumpiness with Facebook and Google indeed press Gazette Scott

Campaign and they say that they're trying to stop these two Monolith destroying journalism, and this is a step in the right direction for me.

What would be interesting to see is whether this Spurs any other publishers into erecting paywalls and I'm thinking specifically of the Guardian which whenever you're on the website these days you always see the begging bottle it feels more apparent than ever and with this step from Google you sort of wonder whether they might be tempted to Iraq that pay well and indeed I spoke to the TV is active David pemsel last year and he did not rule out any such action reluctance by some publishers to admit.

They may have got it wrong and actually worse Murdoch might of got it right doesn't Arabic is the truth is there was a time where you could pay for a website for advertising just but it's like Tyson just isn't worth.

What it used to be.

And the changes that you know the recognising this is a difficult time for distal journalism and it's better for them to have more subscriptions because Google relies on publisher supply content so Google need to support publishers in the revenue.

They need to say that is probably the ulterior motive is subscription the great from Googles perspective because if you've got a subscription your behaviour is so much more predictable you know if you've got such an obviously you're gonna go to the time and time again to that website you're not going to just look for well.

I can I can't access that one is behind a paywall said she was one of a dozen other sources so it works for Google I need are always keen to know more about what you're doing in this would make it much easier and what do we think it rings for your respective businesses? You can be polite and decline to answer listen to tell if you want the Business Insider JK mean obviously your business model.

Where is about giving way content for free and getting as many people as possible to put their eyeballs on your pages.

So does it worry you that I don't know the times for example might be moving up the rankings not particularly.

I would back our content we serve chicken orients.

It's a very different audience the times.

Did the brand recognition that we have with Google is increasing all the time so I I be confident and pick ourselves in in that situation and for your Rebecca me with the week.

I guess the point is to actually get people to subscribe to the magazine ultimately yes, I'm so they live subscriptions to magazines do come through the website.

So anyway, we are pushing that for my subscription the online version is in a kind of them is the gateway to that so it makes sense to keep it free.

I mean that has been discussions before about the soft payroll or something like that, but I think you have to be a certain size of organisation to do that with a relatively small team you know someone like the times that can take that risk.

They've been pioneering than I think of it does become more normalised to hide contact mind up a wall, then that's probably discussion.

They will end up any again as individuals actually pay for your news in anyway, anyway.

I can't say that.

I wouldn't pay for it.

If I didn't have access to its really work.

I think I would go that, isn't it?

Paper Edition and I can look at the websites of the people did work for me from that point of view for nothing else considered purchasing their slate plus membership, so I could read the extra Dear Prudence questions, but then I realise if you click on and hit the X Factor really quickly you can you can rely do paper new users by pay for print product for me.

You still can't beat that and if I want to if I'm going to get rid of some cash for my pocket.

It's always for print products.

Are you more likely? I wonder to buy BFG all the times in the Guardian cos you know everything in the Guardians online for free cos that's kind of how I think about it a bit now.

I'm more Naturally Guardian reader but I'm more likely to buy bft.

I think that's fine.

I do this out by the Sunday Times I get Private Eye there.

We go well.

I could both of you.

I See Me cause I don't listen to media podcast as well, so that's fully voluntary.

We had a couple of stories from the world of fake news this week as well the BBC's Nick Robinson gave a lecture was the inaugural Steve Hewlett memorial lecture in fact wasn't it last Thursday when he said that the alternative Media awaiting a guerrilla war on traditional Media so Rebecca who was he talking about?

Buy alternative Media well.

He made a big push to target sites across the board so you talk about West monster canary and he mention the European as well.

So you did try to take a Marin equally which classically and Echo with the wider debate about the BBC has attracted I from all sides, so it's a new European newspaper is intrinsically more problematic than of tabloids that runs stories that may have it in a Shady relationship with the truth around the tablet.

I think probably most people who read them don't necessarily think that everything in the mystery.

Where is the alternative news sites and blogs do centre tractor more raid its fanbase.

You know they are sharing and liking that content and they obviously are passionately believing it and anything that reinforces their existing world you this gift of the story happened this week didn't need taking the form of the Canary report about Laura kuenssberg.

What they said that she was a speaker at the Tory conference when it actually was just an invited speaker and never accepted the invitation and therefore never actually got up on stage at the Tory conference and they ran a piece just destroying her and saying this is there a problem with BBC impartiality? She's a Tory yeah, it was completely insidious and cynical and they had to change their version after was pointed out by Jim Waterson among others that it was inaccurate.

I think there is a sort of a slightly corrosive agenda against the so-called mainstream Media but I think politicians don't help they create a set of permissive environment for this kind of journalism like a big gorilla journalism that Robinson refers to yeah.

They get up on stage and they attacked the Financial Times has brush on Sunday this where you call the Daily Mail even is Jeremy Corbyn did last week and then you've got no trump in America the sort of Grandmaster of press basing the I have so Blind Faith in.

Readers, I think readers smell shit when they see it and hopefully that means there's always going to be a space for properly reported impartial accurate journalism will possibly be possibly be successively sites indicates that people actually quite like a diet of shifts as well.

They want that reflect their prejudices cos they can share them on social media in anymore.

That's definitely true.

I mean when the things that people will say about the BBC was well if the left and the right accusing advice.

It must be doing something right which is kind of a pat on the back thing to say very complacent it but that was a phrase that people started saying an error before there's an entire industry devoted to telling people news.

They wanted to hear it didn't used to be a problem for people to think that you know people complaining BBC was biased but where else are you going to get your news now? You can you know there's plenty of so-called reputable new sites that are giving you exactly what you want here and telling you this is the truth and everyone else is lying.

Websites for at least the point of the politicians who are champion by this website is to discredit the mainstream Media to create the impression that what you're hearing in the mainstream Media is wrong is a lie to their own political advantage.

Cos it seems to me that actually could just be a side effect of them finally finding a voice that says this goes great and I could think of a Champion that I think it's it's one part of what they're trying to achieve are they actively attack the BBC another big traditional press, but the Daily Mail actively attacks the BBC always have I mean everyone to take the BBC right but obviously the Daily Mail will perhaps sensationalize accurate information, but I don't think they would make up the fact that Laura Coombs Berg was a speaker at the Tory conference much about ideological bias sometimes.

It is about journalistic standards mean a story like that the like the one that appeared in the Canary would never have appeared even in you know in the sun or anything like that because it is an understanding that what John has made.

Out and maybe before we run this story.

We should bring a few people or we should just think why on earth would she ever have accepted and invited to speak at a party political conference any journalist worth Assault on a mainstream newspapers know the BBC journalist never do anything like that and you know it doesn't go to any kind of rigorous fact-checking appear on the Canary it just feel more special if you look back to archives.

I would linger on this but if it was Donald Trumps strategy before to keep using the phrase fake news about the mainstream Media so that lines get Blurred and what used to be fake news re stories that are deliberately untrue to get clicks.

No longer means that it worked as an IT the general public.

I think they'll probably think of fake news 2 min stories that are untrue as opposed to stories that are deliberately created with a political purpose in mind.

Accurist it's about it.

Doesn't say what I agree with my world.

You was correct there for anything that doesn't do that must somehow be fake even if I can't pinpoint the actual inaccuracies because there aren't actually any inaccuracies that won't quickpoint Ofcom published news consumption survey earlier this month.

So if you look at it the traditional newsbrands are still extremely healthy extremely well read this agenda has not brought anyone to their needs at this point the BBC still has a 56% share of the market ITV have announced a new program to rival the BBC's Newsnight Jake tell us about this.

It's after the news and format.

We've been here before ITV used to broadcast a show called the agenda with Tom bradby this new show is made by the same production company ITN production.

So it would appear that they are changing the guard at straws that's concerned.

It's going to be presented by Emma Barnett and Nick Ferrari good very capable Ferraris Renaissance sort of complete and Emma Barnett stratospheric Rise continues, so being hold up with her in a tiny little pressroom.

I know Mark TV conference.

She's done right since he's done well for herself.

I'm sure I'll be very solid but is it going to change the face of TV current affairs probably not the question really Rebecca's do you turn to ITV to watch TV current affairs when I was always the issue with the agenda as well wasn't people have been comparing two Newsnight but it sounds almost and Away more like question time without the audience questions in that they're going to be pissing people with opposite of views head-to-head.

I'm not going to lie to me that thing that it sounded most similar to was my least favourite programme on TV which is the big questions Nicky Campbell it just sounded like two people with opposing viewpoint.

Do you know when you are you watching it?

IRA bomb shelter each other it sounds absolutely dire, but I will obviously reserve my judgement is not going to destroy Newsnight agenda.

Was on TV it was getting more viewers than Newsnight when it was on a air Newsnight is a brand that's not going anywhere anytime soon.

I suppose also that feeling when your on ITV that you have to have those populous contributors.

You know that you would see the likes of Friday Night Katy Hopkins or Julia hartley-brewer.

Go on the agenda.

Wouldn't it? And that was perfect because they were there to stay up and be part of the Debate but therefore it isn't use nighttime in a medium is just less intelligent isn't it? There's more populist.

Yeah definitely I mean that that's what I see.

It.

Is that there is a gap for that arguably it shouldn't be trying to compete on the same person.

He's missing the point.

I think they they will always try and keep some credibility and and try and keep that current affairs he feel and that's why they wouldn't go with someone like right Lorraine Kelly as as a host.

I think it will be interesting it be.

Kevin Lagos first Ditto in the water of proper current affairs this will be his take on the agenda, and I hope the show does well because it's it's good to have thriving current affairs brands on TV and I do wonder with Ferrari I mean ok.

This is only for 5 weeks and it's not even clear if he's presenting it for all of those week.

Yeah, but being a bit today.

Isn't she's going to do the other two days, but he has to get up at 4 in the morning do a 3 hour Breakfast Show that's quite heavy duty.

You know it's not a light breakfast so we just play some records that might work for 5 weeks that can't be his long-term plan can it and I just wondered whether he's now looking for an exit from LBC whether there's a sense that he's achieved everything he can't because he keeps popping up on telly is doing the pleiades doing Newsnight and they're all night night shows which are incompatible with doing breakfast possibly.

I don't know how many it depends on what he prefers to do when he's clearly built a real audience for himself on LBC

And I guess reestablish his name at the heart of current affairs in agenda in in the UK but whether he feels he can build on that with the ITV show then he may well be looking at an exit strategy weekend if you were just doing dad's me with the game then who could step into his shoes LPC because I don't think there is any one that's an obvious therapy Nigel Farage yeah well exactly but that very much takes you away from Number 1 Breakfast Show doesn't it like that appeals very much for a chord whose Ferrari LBC I don't know like James O'Brien you know you've been on Facebook but you Canadians James O'Brien is slightly more left waiting.

I can't imagine you and Dale really moving to breakfast.

If no he's great a dog very good.

Yeah, but he's 2 he's 2 nights Disney YouTube centricity can't do fiery whose fiery anyway.

Just putting that out there.

Ok.

Let me go to Channel 4 now and they'll soon be an announcement over who will replace J Hunt as chief creative officer Jake this is very much.

Terrafirma for you if you've got your ear to that Tara who do you think is in with a Chance interestingly in that broadcast piece last week when they ran through some of the main contenders for the post.

I didn't mention one name who I've heard a number of times and that is Danny Cohen what is he doing thing is spending the billions of Len blavatnik.

Who is a billionaire and he runs a company called access entertainment and Danny is investing in blockchain companies in films all sorts of things here in the UK celebrity going to rain in London sort of out of the spotlight.

Yeah.

He is not the figure in the TV industry that he used to be and a suggestion is that he would welcome stepping back into the limelight and this job may well be the right one.

I mean there's an argument that says he could be the chief executive of Channel 4 that job is now gone.

But yeah, he is got the chops.

He could do the job.

It's all depends.

What is relationship is like with alix man.

Who is the new incoming chief executive if there's a good relationship there.

He may well take on the job and it's the kind of high-profile appointment that she is looking for if you look at some of the other candidates Damian Kavanagh has been mentioned.

He's the boss of BBC threes done a pretty good job of money BBC Three and tough circumstances the main internal candidate is Ralph Lee who's very talented but was always seen as Jay Hunt air and Jay hunts not there anymore, so that's a problem for him.

I got a feeling that Alex is as I say, is it hunting for a sort of glitzi appointment and Danny could fit that bill.

That's good.

Thank you for that ok, and they would that mean then that he is still heading one day to be BBC djd think that's a good question.

I think maybe one day he could return to the BBC but the BBC will.

Hire a woman as the next DG reg right here.

I'm not sure I would bet my house on it being a woman that you are good now listen up Media Potters this episode was recorded at run VT in the heart of Soho thank you run VT they have 15 offline and 2 online sweets as well as a spectacular baselight grading Theatre to go alongside this here dubbing sweet and voice-over Booth listen acoustics of here.

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Why not check out billion dollar deals and how they changed your world that's on Wednesday night on BBC to edit your next show at run VT go to run VT TV

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Types of news in brief now Rebecca and Jake are still with me and.

Bbbc how to remove references to schools in their online application process Rebecca why they doing this they have found out that they have too many people from privately educated backgrounds at the high-level in the BBC and they're trying to reduce is in one of the ways.

I think you can do that is by almost a blind application process that's for the initial application process.

So there won't be any information about schools education basically.

There'll be judging you entirely on your supposed to be entirely on your competencies and then if candidates chosen to go to the interview stage then they will see that information about their educational history.

I think I even withholding their name into the interview stage.

So you can't go and just to type them into Google and find out for yourself too many people from private schools.

Name is whether the public think it is too many you know that the BBC should accurately represent the diversity and the breadth of the nation or whether the BBC should just get the best people and likelihood is some of those people will have had money spent on the Education pottery.

I've got colour mixes on this.

I think those that you wanted to use it said it said universities as well.

The only people work hard to get great grades and they go to Oxford or Cambridge and then come out with the first or whatever they have earned their stripes and they should be recognized for that.

They should you have the credibility of their CV showing the fact that been took some Cambridge I don't think you should take that away from Hackney 9 minute.

I can't help it be partially on the same page of its first person in my family to go to university Oxford got a first and I feel like I've graduated the only time in history where that I haven't been able to Leverage like shamelessly to my vantage.

I mean I can't see two big floors in it one being that time you get to the interview stage and they find information out I feel like it's at the interview stage there a lot of

Subconscious discrimination does happen, I'll be really clicked with this person we have some of the background, but then also the fact that even just looking at someone's work history you're going to see the impact of it of privilege there as well.

I mean that at the same time BBC comedy about that so problematic for TV not just the BBC but generally across the industry that there needs to be more radical action and this could be one decision that that helps change things if it doesn't it will be interesting about this is if people have been judged purely on their merits without actually end up with more people that have been too good universities and private school.

That's because there is also the reverse bias it sometimes happens in interviews and as someone who advertised positions in look three CVs myself in the part where you think I will there's a typo there, but they went to the local comprehensive and then I went to the University of Luton or whatever.

It's actually I'm gonna give that person they break because ok.

They're not as well as educated.

Clearly got passion for that is where is if I didn't have that information at all.

This is someone who's been to a good university quote on quote.

I think that's the type of Dundee United 3 and 10 ships that Great Barr regarding places that is being influenced the average.

You know the average managers response that CV and again that can be a result of having an aunt to house in London that you can stay in 340 months.

You know fundamentally the change is going to come from making more radical changes much earlier in life and it's only a limited amount that companies that the BBC candy Wilko independent study into the gender gap in pay has concluded that the BBC isn't discrimination against women so chill out of becket's 9 review its audited by PWC found it was an average of 9.3 pay gap between male and female employees at the BBC that they found at the reason for that was because men were overrepresented in the higher up jobs rather than

The same level being paid different amounts through it all comes down to the fact whether or not you think that men having the overwhelming majority of senior roles is in itself discriminate against women always a meritocratic Lee and those separate.

It's a separate issue and it's better for the BBC's slightly than the Optics of paying men and women the same role different lots of money the positive possibly slightly idealistically that can be drawn from it.

Is that while the majority of the highest grade II Men majority and the most junior grades were women which does kind of give you the hope that those women may one day be there at the future senior management.

So there is some hope to be drawn dragon ask you questions which the answer is yes, it came out during Theresa May's conference speech and Jake the timing of this release was interesting as it came out almost precisely as Theresa May to the stage at the Conservative Party Conference Media journalist still going to write this and it was on the front page of Telegraph on.

So the BBC is still had a reasonable amount of attention on this issue.

I look through this reasonably carefully it didn't feel like there was a massive Smoking Gun the BBC is doing by all accounts not terribly as far as national averages are concerned and there are areas where it has said, it's going to make improvements and there's a couple of practical things.

It's going to do they going to ban same-sex interview panels.

They're going to review staff pay every six months the BBC I'm sure we'll make improvements the one thing I would notice that this did not extend to on-air Talent so that issue remains unresolved at the moment there could be another cycle of news about Talent pay and the discrepancy between men and women and will certainly enjoy that lovely will be featured on this vine podcast in detail ok BBC Radio 1 vintage.

Did you listen the Pop-Up station that popped up as pop-up stations do did you hear any minute?

I'll be listening to a bit better.

I've been particularly listening to the podcast.

I got a series of vans been off podcast which are interviews with people who have at one time or another been a Radio 1 DJ so you've got your Bob Harris you've got your Tony Blackburn that's really fascinating.

Cos it really give you a look behind the scenes about what was going on at the BBC as far back as soon as the 70s 60s.

I think it was a success broadly speaking was that joke is trending on Twitter the whole weekend.

We'd said on This podcast this isn't America be here because I was always on the fence about it, but certainly some of our guests had said on the podcast this is going to be a disaster You Know Radio 1 listeners.

Don't want to celebrate the fact that this station is 50 years old and everyone else just frankly things about Jimmy Savile and stuff where they think about the history of this is a terrible idea actually lots people seem to get really into it and they did plug it on the main station on Saturday you had Nick Grimshaw co presenting the Breakfast Show with Tony Blackburn and might read which was pretty during to be honest I wonder.

I wonder what young listeners Spiderman probably they were very confused.

I'd imagined but credit where credit's due.

They were saying on Radio 1 with celebrating a 50th birthday which is quite a thing to do when you've got a young audience telling them how how old your brand is something at the weekend and I'm afraid I don't know that's fine, because I'm 36 the northern guy who hosts the slot that used to be the chart show that Sunday night 5.

I haven't been saying he played his record of the weekend.

So clearly I inferred they have record of the weekend every weekend at the record of the weekend was the first ever song played on Radio 1 by Tony Blackburn in 1967 and I feel Christ I mean I'm young for that.

So you know most people listening to this so going to be able to song and you just be that it was flowers in the Rain by the move which is not song I've ever heard on Radio 1 in my lifetime contrasting knowledge, so I thought that was quite good that they actually did I mean they could have avoided.

I could maybe make some of the weekend completely distinct yeah, it'll be interesting to see what that reflects itself in the range of 3 not one of the thing that I noticed as well listening to Radio 1 vintage a bit is the amount of comedy they were playing out which it just highlighted.

How a little comedy.

There is now on Radio 1 except in very broad terms.

You know if you save it and Scott Mills is doing comedy slots or whatever comedy games, but I mean they were playing at Adrian just Kenny Everett stuff from Mark and lard and you sort things out there actually sort of what sort of comedy station at once they just wondered music radio oana actually gonna bring back some form of comedy through the medium of podcasts, so they may be interested.

We connect with those comedy roots.

Hopefully not Kenny Everett think it's a bit invest in some new finally just before the quiz Clare Balding was at the centre of a journalistic spat this week so Saga said it did not offer copy approval however, it did admit that it show.

Food boarding and the agent the pics I think they said it though.

They didn't allow copy control but they did allow copy approval.

They showed them the piece of checked for accuracy right that opens the door to all kinds of questions.

I think and the editor also said that they she she sourced more quotes.

I think that was the way they phrased it so whether you want to read between the lines of what could have gone on between the agent and the editor and potentially kiteboarding is interesting you know people get fired for this stuff.

Don't know when when the journalist is decided to do it you are Johann Hari left the Independent didn't eat because he been taken quotes from other articles and putting them in his own columns if people and send them to him and yet when the agent requests it this appears to be something that is possible within the industry that the reader still being deceived.

That's not what Clare Balding that ever happened to my bloodline to insert this additional content in a wee.

No obviously, it's not giving you an accurate representation of what happened during the interview but at the same time.

I think it is.

It is actually relatively common within the industry to have that kind of Owen also she'd like to say this about this product, but she's chilling for so the thing is we don't we still don't really know may I suppose never know exactly what transpired in between home, but the response to it.

I think it's been interesting regardless of what happened specially Dan Wootton Road and Incredibly scathing fiery and wasn't it? Was it wasn't busy.

It was scathing it was downright journalistic blazing about all about this very common practice of celebrities and their people asking for change of 20 beers and he named and shamed celebrities who asked for copy ctrl.

Copy approval and ac dining his point was that the kind of the d list celebrities the ones who are the most precious.

Where is the a-listers tend to let you get away with Maurice anything in general is like you've actually fed into this scenario because every permission is granted or we won't do it in your house.

Will do it in a restaurant.

I won't do it the restaurant.

Will do it now.

We waited doesn't have to be just for us we can do it's part of a junkie.

Oh, it doesn't matter if we've only got 10 minutes.

I will definitely mention the new product your plug is used low Lea Road the journalistic integrity that celebrity interviews once had they do just become PR and he forgot that I could just as much about yeah definitely I know it was I'm not in the Habit of quoting comments on from the sun's website however the weather for that said of course a listers won't ask for changes to copy because you phone over them incessantly dealers the Steelers have to check because you're trying to stitch them up that should never be asked for and it should never be granted and you should always in agree those terms of Engagement before entering into you ok.

There is just time you'll be pleased to know for our Media quiz this week is entitled celebdaq.

Yes the underrated.

It says here Paddy O'Connell BBC Three show is resurrected for 1 podcast only I'll name a media personality or publisher.

Tell me if their stock is up or down and of course why it's better 3 buzzing with your name so Rebecca you will say Rebecca cracked the winner goes to hootenanny the loser attends all of next year's party conferences.

He is question number one is their stock up or down The Economist by Beyonce Jake this about trust in the media and Donald Trump yes, so therefore their stock is up according to market watch that UK magazine is the most trusted news source for Americans that's kind of amazing.

Isn't it? That's because of the internet, isn't it? Yeah? Yeah definitely an excellent Facebook presents.

They will be punched by the way when it comes to the likes and shares the same discussions, then they do have a reputation for being slightly if anything right leaning so I think that has helped them especially in there with the distrust of the Lefty media thing that's definitely out them.

What's the bearing of that you think of this people have probably reaching out for a traditional use brands the added to find accurate news about Donald Trump Tuesday stock up or down the mirror Rebecca that stock is down has just received a six-figure payout for all their malfeasance told him good use of the work and I'll be there.

There is plenty more payouts to come so I had one thing in the region of 15 million double figure million-pound summerside Pei out all of these all of these claims in the future, so they're stock is going to continue on the downward slide and Republic people moved on from that.

They haven't noticed that the mirror paying out just as much you're nearly as much as is news international did when they were still call news international that people just think of these the world really don't mean obviously there been reported on and then.

Talking about the right now, but I think the public consciousness the news the world will always be associated with phone hacking and the mirrors.

Can I got away with it and a few other people he said needed more scrutiny bonus point anyone remember who those people are we having individually not talking about Piers Morgan talking about his great episode Morgan Vickers Tina Weaver and Richard Wallace with the names that could be produced ok here is question number three it's the decider former Absolute Radio hosts Geoff Lloyd it is stop Apple down Rebecca Rose close, Harestock is up up up Roly this is subjective I really appreciate if you hate him in the Bandits down podcast it is still up $20 you please come affiliation.

He has started a podcast with Ed Miliband no one's all about coming so Geoff Lloyd left Absolute Radio and then he did a podcast with Annabelle

Coatbridge I think you very much would have been coming.

I did not expect him to simultaneously launched a banter bass show with the former leader of the Labour Party well, but as you say it does kind of go out into banterous the sides they've got great chemistry, Ed Miliband is very funny.

He's obviously he's found something that he is good after his Potter slipper Party leader of people 7 he stood in for Jeremy Vine earlier this year on Radio 2.

He got a lot of Praise especially for a segment on sounds of toilets flushing so he's carrying that Talent overtook as well.

I think the result is really accident regardless of your political affiliation to listen to a little bit because he was never really regarded as a great orator and he's all reinvented himself as this face the radio isn't it? That's partly because he is allowing his proper personality disorder through and he's clearly a decent man who's got a really good sense of humour excellent well with that we going to draw because get bonus point.

Jake actually, so well done both of you.

Would I get your name now you name some of the that what you said, we're not talking about, but that's it for a show for today mate.

Thanks to take cancer and to Rebecca gillie.

You can catch up with previous episodes and get new one as soon as they're released by subscribing for free.

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The producer is Matt Hill the media podcast 8 PPM production until next time.

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