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Read this: #70 - NARM conference, Bob Shennan on BBC Radio - The Media Podcast with Olly Mann

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#70 - NARM conference, Bob Shennan on BB…

Hello and welcome to the media podcast I'm only man on today's show regulators and the government lay down the new orders of the BBC and Channel 4 with new edix on news kids and regional production of the Fallout from Salfords nations and regions Media conference the BBC's director of radio Bob shennan talks to us about his plans for the networks and why commercial radio is no longer the enemy plus the nominations are announced for the British podcast Awards there's talk of Lexus George Osborne and in the media quiz truth is put to the ultimate test whatever that mean.

It's all to come on today's Media podcast and joining me today in the plush confines of the Picturehouse central don't join a become a member we enjoy the fact that not everyone knows about this place.

Yet is buzzfeed's Louise Ridley and making his Media podcast debut is kerfuffle TVs Steven d Wright hello hello in three words.

What do I listen is really need to

About you tell her truth truth truth truth.

Tell you could just go away within three words right out on the word.

I did that say mean that's a podcast itself talking about that, but it is must be an education.

I am basically was one of those shows that you now think don't exist anymore.

I Channel 4 show that break the rules did what the fuck it like change the media world.

You look at shows like now and so big and 7 shows and then nothing like that, but they're not shambolic and all over the place.

You know I can't believe what I'm watching is really rare NOW TV yes, is that because people are on shockable or is it because channels don't take her is the letter that people are still still very shockable is very easy to shut the TV unit and Khushi quite a lot.

So they try and do it.

You know Chris Evans is going to entire career has been trying to shock but they're the viewers are on to him in its fake one when it's real and really shocking it still works but can

And and and broadcaster too scared to do that sort of stuff again Louise Ridley at BuzzFeed there have been quite a few stories that some people may have been shot by in the past it sort of feels like anything can happen in politics these days.

Have you become immune to the phrase article 50 does that just might white noise now.

It's going to happen, so we had a great dinner.

We have plans in place things to write it happened as expected now.

I've got two years.

So it's that funny news, but not news and you know nothing is happening.

It's just the beginning of a very long and exhausting process and we all become immune to a lot of it and by the time.

It's all finished.

I'm not sure we're going to remember how it started and what on earth is happening news agency report on the delivery of a letter Shakespearean style messenger delivering and paper letter.

We have we got the letter and understood all annotations or low.

Informative yet quickest what we like to do and that did really well because if someone sees that you know we had read the full letter kind of things ca3 four page letter, so that everything you probably contacted probably someone writes explain is on it then it just makes it a lot easier to digest I think and say yeah, that was good that there are people in Brussels who have read your Bracey rather than the letter itself.

It's a worry.

I mean who knows what's going on inside.

Let's be honest.

It's inevitable.

What do you think of legs it both of you? I should ask you before we progress any further going to the big Media story of the weekend away tweeted my my prayers about this so afraid to say so it's kind of you know might my view is out there.

I was talking about possible Scottish independence and brexit and all kinds of very important things and the male had as their front cover picture of the to happen to both the way Navy suits and looking very fabulous.

It's ok to say that I think.

Size for a woman to say that is it OK to say about Stephen that she need a set of backlash, they would get which was you chose to focus on these women politicians legs etc on you descale with backlash.

They probably wouldn't think it would be a talking point on 5 Live availability Daily Mail gets gets so much backlash these days that they obviously obviously they know what they're doing that.

I thought it's very interesting that the following day.

They ran a double page coverage of the back about their own front page which they don't do very often am instead of put some different beliefs about their respective a woman's light-hearted perspective.

I think they called it is not surprising to All But The the number of complaints the ipso was a lot of they had 1600 complaints which is an awful.

Lot of complaints put on the front page.

Can a bit more serious not nevermind brexit when I close the male has been banging on about brexit for ages? It was the placement of it as more important than other stuff.

I think there's a lot of virtue signalling and liberal Twitter users say they don't like the Daily Mail but they're preaching to The Choir There's more reticent usually from Public figures to say they don't like the Daily Mail because I don't want the backlash and they want to be seen as someone who champions the common man and woman to reach the Daily Mail but with this I did notice people who wouldn't normally say that they were opposed to it's a mirror post it for example.

I was watching the rain that day had a busy morning and she opened the show back with a little monologue about this is outrageous and I let you know there's no exclusive this is old school feminism in this is something that everyone can be on the right side of quite easily near you know nobody knows whether they can come out of there is a remainer or a brexiteer and face the public but you can easily go it's of sexist the way from legs it and on to number 17 that Harry Sayers

Is and regions Media conference in Salford what would you prefer na.rm that also sounds like a bit hip-hop? Isn't it sounds like something to do the NRA I think one of these things it was a relatively boring conference originality of the British Media seen as important stories coming out of it off comms head Sharon white has said that the BBC should be required to produce more peak time news and kids TV CBBC will be expected to show at least 400 hours of original commissioning with CBeebies hitting 100 hours at year Stephen Ofcom enjoying their new role regulating the BBC the level of excitement listeria in my voice at those with the Glamour of Ofcom finally going to play with the BBC and coming out with a boring kind of regulation that no one really cares about what does more peak time news actually.

Meme already had kids TV channels everywhere, so it's kind of a to me this feels like you know this is what you referred to as earlier in that media term virtue signalling by Ofcom they're not saying don't play paedophiles.

You know and don't be hurt again statement that no one has ever got any objections with really that's what it is again to me.

This is very dull and no doubt you have an objection to it because my mum's at the moment is that news is using BBC Three as an outlet and that's that really does affect me as an intern producer because they're using current affairs to fill the BBC Three slots.

There's nothing wrong with that.

They're not using an internal comedy and so it's becoming very very classically journalistic very interesting you know there's only so many times you can watch the documentary.

Prostitute having genital mutilation or something you like a bit of Culture should be fun and BBC3 house falling into a bit of a current affairs for the sinkhole wherever which I know they're trying to stop you know because it's sort of realise.

It's a bit too musi so this is hardcore stuff as well.

You know but they've gone right down there and news is quite dominant it at the BBC at the moment.

So no one can say no to use but then you know these are serious times, are they not remove the top when I think I'm kind of just about of the age that BBC Three eggs and yeah, I think of it as it as an original entertainment comedy.

That's what I wanted to be that.

Those documentaries to be messing with Reggie Yates that cos they're there a real fusion of soup and then there's a lot stuff that's actually using Windows to Stacey and and and Reggie are presenters presenting a vintage.

Not a single person documentary The Cure documentary in a very current affairs the way you know and it's it's the current affairs commission as they're doing more commissioning for the Z3 than the entertainment commissioners, what do you think about Voice UK Alex Miller there so many opportunities for Indies there, but no formal commissioning structure again Media bullshit in other words but basically vice in-house producers par excellence don't pay very well and we'll have some lunch and moaning about on the show before but they will say oh, yes, we will take ideas from Independence independence already going to go to voice and they get paid for them.

So it's a little bit of a unit sounds good against anything that sounds good.

You know but voices you know one of the channels that seems to be buying so therefore every independent production company will eventually go there cap in hand and take whatever rubbish money.

They're offering indie listening to this new thing ever got perfect idea for Vice that there is a kind of idea that only really does work there BBC3 used to be vice and then BBC3 became cannibal.

Current affairs show or Channel and no visor taking a lot of that more funky.

You've got your stuff, so it's good that it exists but it isn't buying off the of the industry.

It's it's keeping the money in Telford it's kind of virtuous circle and its online as well working for a big company like BuzzFeed you need some sort of commissioning process to give a fair processing that idea from the outside is the BuzzFeed is exactly the kind of company where you can if you work there write an email to someone quite seen you and say hello first name basis.

I've got a great idea.

Let's make a show is that Nottingham pitching an idea you want I've got set of guidelines.

What that I can mission for special projects and other fun stuff you need to know if you're pitching for a me outside to accompany what they might do with it what you might be paid how it works and that's kind of something you want to know it's

Outside MacKays dealing with Salford culture secretary Karen Bradley told delegates this week, but yes that's Channel 4 will not be privatised we're not going to wait for that.

It was a weary sigh of relief for hanker because I'm guessing Steven they still looking forward to be that are Birmingham ok punishing you for not providing by sending it to Birmingham it was there which was the Threat of a long everyone's going to worried about what's a walkabout Birmingham nothing nothing actually looked on Rightmove yesterday for £600,000.

They do have you no electricity running water and and and all sorts of shot Selfridges yeah, but yeah, it's the weirdness is the fact that it feels slightly punitive from the government to Channel 4 it doesn't really feel if you're that tokenism and box ticking which is always a great thing in in creative Industries but you never mean.

It's that the idea of the Indies will have to.

Go up to Birmingham I mean I'd love to see how many people are going to quit their jobs in commissioning at Channel 4.


There's nothing wrong with it, but it does seem like a bit of a set of false promise or deliberate so divided into trying to please people none of whom are actually moaning about it.

That loudly other people and things that because the advertisement and overall contribution to the UK economy strong feminine but it did surprise me reading about this channel 4 only 3% of its permanent staff outside London I think yes, you're right is tokenism to say get out of London but it's an important issue with how people outside and see the media with increasing there is a problem isn't there with people comparing it to the BBC and their move to Salford cos the BBC is enormous and and paid for people to relocate from London and get mortgage if they did the BBC

That in order to stave off Daily Mail Chris Haslam and the government's Christie's him.

It was the absolute so to Last Chance Saloon or will do this as a kind of smokescreen.

You know and lots of people haven't gone to Manchester universities great if you have if you wait if you're 21 and starting job in media move to Manchester forget the high rates of London everything else.

What are the problems with? This is that they don't realise how hard is Friends based in London struggling with no commissions you know because it the other end of this move to the Birmingham thing is raised the quota from 35% to 50% that the really dangerous thing but delicious to talk about that because Channel 4 apparently already ordered more than 50% of its programming from indeed to a based outside London she doesn't make any difference in Crete this does this is old is tokenism and done for this.

Is it to be played out on political pages of the Daily Mail and whoever it be Indie not necessarily saying moved to Birmingham or Manchester as another kind of bleaching can a campaign that to me to Manchester which makes slightly more sense because if you are in.

Ed based in Leeds when you've got to go to Birmingham you going to Birmingham for 1 mins if you come to London you can see couple of other people you can see other channels unit Discovery Netflix whoever but it's it's I don't know it's just it just feels like oh here we go again and there's nothing wrong with having something based outside of London it's the fact that their first thing to do it as a kind of again horrible phrase virtue signalling this time on behalf of the government forcing time for me.

It's got that sense that kind of slightly can appear when privatise you say we're just going to fuck with your way with your postcode moving on the world's most popular search engine if you don't know which one that is Google is it has run into a spot of trouble with its advertisers after revelations that adds for Volkswagen channel for them again and the UK government have been wrong against extremist content on YouTube and after McDonald's and AT&T pallbearers in the States Google have started to worry about this this week.

They announce discounted rates to ruback their clients.

Google of taking such a sizable chunk of the advertising market, do you think this is actually good news for traditional Media tech summit some of these advertisers may stop pulling back.

I'm really important thing to be raised and in a brand the right to don't want to be associated with their content and it's right for the wider public to understand.

They're usually her things like Prina programmatic advertising work incentive things appearing next to content that they may not have known about and that's a good thing for everyone to know about I think I mean Google is so big and the amount spent with it is so big and you know discounted rates.

I'm sure lots of these advertisers will be back again with Google saying so I don't know if anyone else is going to benefit usually I'm actually but I think it is an important ethical thing and it's very good.

Browns took his hand and pulled out even though I'm not sure that will be flat along with interest like that by The Sunday Times and days employee obvious that this is a controversy that could happen.

Is United help if he was announced that what's that is actually going to do when it's going to look at it, but how do you control that kind of thing where you sure? That's what they say that is out.

There are even well.

They say that they're supporting free speech and the rights of people to say those things my father cancer advertising and is that evil how many hardest buying Volkswagen what will Google have said is that they're accelerating their review into how their ads are allotted and they already know how they're odds are on office is not appear next to it, but the extremist content is there.

I mean that thing that people care about for at least two of them.

They don't want to Wade into his a situation where they are seen as a media company rather than the technology company right even though clearly if they're selling advertising and they have some jurisdiction over content than they are a media company.

They don't want to be seen to save this is all right.

This is all write this in forces are values.

Because at that point they can be blame for anything that anyone says from their bedroom and the witches is very ballin interesting but it's interesting that should have tired of criticizing these kinds of companies which they're probably not very happy about Harry but now it's nothing to do with us talk about the big story actually I've been asking two or three weeks, but it happens to coincide with the day after we recorded the last episodes.

It wasn't in there the new editor of the evening Standard Mr George Osborne Louise what are actually yeah? I was doing a local radio show in it flashed up on my TV in the studio and I'm nearly swore on it just in it and then I realised eliciting care, but I was just that that's genuinely jaw-dropping.

And then it was just an absolute shocker, but in some ways that makes a lot of sense in that you know his someone who's got loads of financial connections got big connections in love you now you see why I buy him, but it will I suppose because I don't think my journalistic was makes no sense whatsoever as exercising in networking or something you can make sense like a cocktail party argument.

I'm sure we still got a read this paper that you supposedly editing during his five other jobs.

Are you doing? How's the when they real Germany my assumption the diminishing of the role of editor and what that is over the past 4 years and it's it's the medias fault.

It's awful for having guest editors of the Today programme women's Aran guest editors the radio Times and clearly these people turned up for a day for an hour and they do at st.

Bugga all everything clearly going to be the deputy editor job to edit the paper and George Osborne

Job to go to parties and stay together to do this can be an editor.

Is is the point that has come up but last couple of years a lot more.

I just think there's a serving politician.

That's the problem on many money.

You know if you was my MP I disable what he knows it.

Just doesn't work out a leader that can I borrow sensational Kelvin Mackenzie star headline well, he'd say because it's the evening Standard because it's specifically that paper he can get there at 5 in the morning work until 11 a.m.

And then go to Parliament debates in the afternoon, so he can do both jobs because the paper his family.

He has got loads of other jobs as well actually MPs yet.

His journalistic abilities and background are questionable, but it's the it's the fact that someone has serving MP and of course we all do all kinds of applications in special papers have

But I have someone who is who can be told to do something by a whip and who is in the governing party.

You know that that's a very depressing a big line in terms of political leanings.

It's how much money you need to earn George Osborne how much money do you want different it? I don't think this is for money.

This is because he is a leader of the Conservative a trailer for The Times editorial trainee scheme failed.

Are you I'm doing all right next to the Exchequer I love the idea that you'd use the media podcast to say I am alright for you turn down here if I think a lot of people have been rejected from the Times graduate scheme it was supposed to be only sent organised once when I was little is many people with George Bush jobs.

I got rejected for I did go for research as job on dim.

Bwin that was on ITV at rejected from Aragon I got rejected for Pets win prizes years ago.

That was a great show me Bakery or Dale Winton first iteration so it was never got that job.

So I've suffered ever since yeah.

Yeah, I mean that with I mean they're gonna have ended up here today.

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BBC sounds all the stuff has gotten tell me did you do for a brand new drama podcast Durham pearl Mackie to listen to Forest 404 first download the free BBC Sounds app last week saw the annual radiodays Europe conference this time in Amsterdam as usual Paul Robinson was there to interrogate the biggest names and this year he bag doesn't interview with the BBC's director of radio no less former controller of radio 2 Bob shennan.

He's only been in the role for 3 months so Paul started by asking Bob about the state of the radio medium radio in the UK is actually enjoying Kwai

Could numbers just now the last Rachel figures showed the second highest ever reach to radio across all radio BBC and commercial that's pretty heartening it also showed us stabilizing about switch was encouraging and some amazing individual performances by networks, you know 9 and 10 adults are still tuning into the radio every single week, but of course there are challenges particularly amongst the younger demographic and by younger.

I think you know we need to recognise were talking about 45 and under not just in over 15 to 24 year olds paradoxically we doing rather well and yet.

We've got these phenomenal challenges to traditional media and to the sector and we have to develop our strategy to take our audience from the places.

They want to be and bring them to the riches of radio and take car radio into the places where the audience is spending the time to talk about Young

Money change with seeing in the UK is also been seen in many markets around the world and people generally listening to less radiator if you are ours put listener, but also many of them are now starting to stop listening.

It's small but it's a gradual dripping away with seen that no, I was successive ratio quarters.

So how do you re energise those young people who are probably in a brought up on YouTube and video world.

How do you make audio only attractive to them? Well? I think you have to have her a can of a strategy based on a number of different initiatives.

The first is you going to make your call linnea service as good as it possibly can be that you've gotta make sure that it is working as hard as possible to attract audiences in the SE15 24 bracket which is really really hard to do mobile phone is all powerful these days, but remember 84%

15 to 24 are listening to the radio still actually it is possible to make the radio work, but just to rely on linear radio think it's not enough you look at the efforts that are radio one has put into going to where the audience is spending their time radio one has developed the real proposition now in YouTube and VEVO think they have something over 4 million subscribers now in that space more than any other radio service in the world amazingly every single day 100000 hours of video content from Radio 1 or consumed 100000 hours of video content from Radio 1.

We've got to develop the brands.

You know we got to use the digital springboard to take Radio 1 on its core values.

It's called purpose to a wider market to a wider world than just expecting people to come to Linear radio.

The do both it's not either or it's both we got have a great linear and a great digital strategy and we've got to believe that the quality of what we do will attract audiences to come to our services in the future.

I mean if you take Radio 1 for an example which is particularly affected by the development of streaming services these days course you can already start to see the importance of Radio 1 and other music radio Services in magnifying the impact of streaming services is starting to realise actually the music industry is beginning to think how we going to make sure that the UK music offer isn't dominated by great big global numbers has a role for radiator play The Cure tauriel roll for Radio 1 to play in that space because audiences will go in search of that kind of duration and dose trusted guides an authority.

That's one of the key roles Radio 1 can play soap at every turn we Gotta Find the purpose.

Find the added advantage that will bring audiences to that public service content is there a season that is Google and YouTube and Facebook and Snapchat and Instagram are global Lancer you estimate IT companies and you'll see putting content on their very successful in the case of radio one but what you are doing of course is using someone else's platform platform Mrs multinational competitor effectively to build the BBC Radio is that is that on a weakness well, it is it's a dilemma.

Of course it is but 'twas ever thus you know there are so many examples of businesses that have been built by a working outside of their own space and their own confines, but it's a valid observation the point you make so about these great big global impostors in the UK radio market is the critical one you have the Landscape that we?

Operating has totally changed we do not spend a lot of time in BBC Radio talking about the commercial sector is our competition to be honest increasingly.

We need to see them as RLI because this is about the future of radio and I think it's really essential that we recognise that the challenges are universal for all of us and the benefits of working together on certain key strategic priorities are going to be immense because we have to recognise that these big global Horsemen of the internet apocalypse.

No no international boundaries, they cannot for public service broadcasters.

They're interested in partnering.

They want content and they're fighting a battle with one another and we need to make sure we don't get caught in the Crossfire that we flourish in the Newmarket also actually stealing BBC Talent that's always been the case that you know and you and your business model the new game in town.

It's flat.

The that they're gonna come to the BBC I'm quite proud of that.

I'm not bothered about it.

We've got lots and lots of great Talent you address a radio now baby controller Radio 2 very successful number of years.

He had to make some quite of decisions recently in the wake of BBC cutting heads and grey tights and tough decisions to make because of lack of money and is that a risk of BBC Radio that maybe there won't be enough money to fund this other things you want to do they'll be money that we will need to make available to fund the things that we need to do but we'll need to find that money from within our own resources.

I'd be killing myself and you if I said BBC Radio isn't going to have to make its contribution to meeting not just the challenge of the most recent licence fee settlement where there's a 800 million lb whole to be filled but also if we are going to be able to adapt our services and do some new things both in a linear and a digital space.

We're going to need to make.

The money available for that, so you're right.

We had to make some very difficult decisions not just on Radio 2 on all the services some of them the audience notice some of them the audience don't notice as much but over the last 506 years.

I think something like 30 35 million pounds has come out of the cost base of BBC Radio Simpson it's know it's more than that.

It's at the actual disposable.

Income is something that 25% of spend on content which is a considerable amount actually.

I think you know is Testament to all the networks that they've handled them very definitely and carefully but at times.

It's impossible to disguise in the audience doesn't like it.

We have to continue to find ways of saving money in order to invest in the future is just essential to the strategy going forward now.

You will forgive me asking this but what's the truth then behind the Brian Matthew and Tony Blair buttoned storage because there's been all sorts of circulation so tell us.

The truth Bob about Brian and Tony well, I don't know what you think is the truth but I personally have been to see Brian I went to see him at his home because like everybody I think I would love if Brian had been able to just keep going on with sounds of the 60s Forever on a Saturday morning.

I can't remember Radio 2 before Brian Matthews was the sound of Saturday morning that amazing voice that incredible experienced brain that he would bring to every selection of Records at that he put together with filter understands the 60s but Brian is now passed his 88th birthday.

He's not been very well.

Doing a weekly show coming into to do a weekly show in the allotted time becomes more and more demanding for anybody and and it's I know it's the right time for Brian to step back from the weekly treadmill, but when I went to see him.

I was really pleased that he was willing to carry on doing some occasional programs, so he is still going to be on Radio 2 in Francisco be on Radio 2 over the Easter period I think that's the right way.

That's the respectful way to treat somebody who has served the BBC so brilliantly and I'm I'm certain it's the right thing in the end for Brian the audience and for Radio 2 and you go Tony Blackburn another chance to new shows now Tony has his gold now on on Friday evenings and and is now the host of The Sound of the 60s on Saturday morning.

We move the program because it's an opportunity when somebody so acutely.

Satiate with the program is Brian Matthews steps down you have to recognise.

It's going to be a different program.

No matter how you would like it to continue exactly the same it isn't and it won't be you have to adapt it.

You have to change it having somebody with Tony's experience and passion is a great opportunity for us, but we decided also to make a change in the schedule.

We wanted to we wanted to bring in a breakfast programme on a Saturday morning.

We wanted to give Dermot O'Leary the chance to be the big mainstream Dermot O'Leary broadcasted are audiences very familiar with we also wanted to create space for Zoe Ball to come back into the Fold at Radio 2 and then to broadcasters who who certainly have that kind of connection with the under 45 audience that we were talking about earlier.

It's an Evolution of the schedule sounds of the 60s is here to stay but it's going to be different because it can't be the same without Prime

Bob shennan talking to Paul Robinson thanks very much to both of them Louise Ridley and Steven d.

Wright are still with me now and let's talk about the press because the Times and Sunday Times have announced a boom in online subscribers since they dropped their breaking news format and decided to deliver three editions of the website a day one at 9 a.m.

One at 12 and one at 5 p.m.

At the only reason for this rise in readers.

Do you think I'm not entirely sure because they starting strategy I think in March and The Rise and subscribers to adjust an impressive which is 200% rise in New subscribers was the first half of the year so I don't know I haven't seen anything which link lever release all of the information.

What's been going on so I don't know if we can link those two things newly redesigned website didn't they as well and they really likes of the papers 2.

Is really really interesting the idea of raining back on the breaking news is a really good form and normal people are experimenting with it.

I don't know if we've had that kind of thing for long enough to see but there's things like the woman's wet cycle the pool which has a kind of broadcast format releases stuffing lots about every hour or two and they're doing really well increasing rapidly the number of readers they have so I think I entertain I said of Antidote to the constant constant flow of news that we all feel the haps doing something a bit more considered and stepping back three times a day is according to the Research what times are yous wanted to say having a scene at the end to do definitely is it? Is it just that when you go to the times.

You know the paper of record.

You know know their reputations been diminished a bit but basically still very establishment authoritarian voice you actually just want to considered peas.

You don't want something that's leaking out drip by drip moment by moment you want something that someone thought about Andy knows been subbed.

Online presents whatever, but I'm one of the recent subscribers to the times that I suddenly found myself.

Why have I done this in because was too many times I kept hitting the firewall on I'm gonna have to do it until today.

I did it for some reason and I think the biggest tree regret it now is that everything the biggest thing the cartoonist? He's the owner at the eye he is amazing absolute thing to look at what he defines to me what the news is and like in way that very few other cuttings to heat the other than that say or something like that.

He's the best eye cream and then the first time you see the stuff you think I care but that's just a quick picture of Jeremy Corbyn and then you realise he's actually channeling and artist from 200 years ago and making a double entendre just incredible currant cuttings and so it for some reason the time seems to be coming into itself a bit possibly it's all this news.

I keep talking about you know it's actually got things to write about but that that that.

Bit of we are a bit bigger than everyone else, so we're a bit more considered or something.

It's starting to become something to the Guardian you know they're going to be other paper of record for the left-wing liberati like me is a bitcoin of anything goes.

Where is the times as a little bit more should have it is a bit more considered.

It is a bit more and more credible little more gravitas.

I don't know any kind of different thing online because it's such a race and they're such a pressure and I might have working online used for several years.

There is a constant.

What have a nice doing that students.

It's a step back and not jump on something when you've had that really especially with online you that takes takes confidence and it should be applauded as not everyone does that the wider digital trends as well, isn't it a Yahoo news summary app there's Twitter moments this idea that took you read all the news.

You know as opposed to this endless stream that you get when you open the apple music for example.

BuzzFeed is part of my job is long for meditacao.

I'm editing what you used to see in Saturday papers.

You know big 4000 word essay.

You make them look amazing and ribs of breaking news, but it's definitely about the quality of the writing.

That's not a job.

You would have seen it online several years ago, so there's definitely this almost reversing itself and taking some of the best of print and just staying still and thinking on the internet so nice and ice Movie thing is 300C what's happening in Venice incompatible Stevenage assume that the Guardian I mean.

They are managing on one of your competitors there right the long read in the Guardian does seem to be something.

They're doing very well and the UK edition of BuzzFeed but this is much more established tradition in the US of long reads so BuzzFeed in the US it's been kind of killing it and doing long things Raiders at have enough in York Times nothing else in the UK as so in the UK are actually catching up slightly we haven't quite got that tradition of a long read on the internet yet says it's exciting time do new yorkers definitely coming to the top or you coming to it so.

Do they do to you? I will check that stuff.

They do a very good at that.

You're lovely to Lee Miller says you've reached the end of your limit this month after you've read for autism.

I'm not going to pay again.

No one if I may just be as old-fashioned us to come in on paper may I say as well, but the redesigned styling kelp supplements in the Sunday Times big.

Thumbs up from me, then.

They look nice.

I mean it's like 5 years too late, but they look really good now ok for everyone talking about it the first British podcast Awards full disclosure producer Matt is the co-founder of the awards and that is why you went to edit my shows like the nominations are due to close a dinosaur and you were judged to be a chance to talk to you much about the process but Steven we can come you say what category judge.

Can we say that yeah? Yeah, ok?

New charged comedy what is going to be alright that welcome to the world of vodka and what was the date that shows the five nominees yes, there was one I personally didn't love as much as the other judges, but had to concede a little bit but the winner of that section is definitely work of RDC I'd say that im in my category as well.

I think there were about 15 nominees and we were to the down to 5 that were good and we all agreed on the winner, but I think what was interesting for me was one of our fellow judges in my category was based in Australia so we would doing with judging over Facetime and he was thinking just judge the Australian podcast awards and he said the ship ones in Australia will really shit and actually the general standard in the UK whilst you're not at least you could hear what everyone was saying they been well produce.

They've been thought about so I think you know thumbs up for British podcasting and the shortlist.

I've been in this game a long time and Representatives in and broad sample of what's out there in Britain which is nice to see anything Louise pokerscout.

I believe it might be might be live British podcast Awards is where you can find a list of everything has been on dating yet.

Have you heard any the shows on this good thing there is an international to Texas really made me realise I need to listen to more different podcast I love podcast when I say that two people.

It's actually got I listen to a select few that are ongoing obsessively, but that feels like that's the number of hours.

I've got in my week.

So I love American podcast I'm really hurts at the moment on the new one from the producers of this American Life called astounded education for me to catch up on hot new podcast.

I need to be involved with no I think it's it's a very good idea if it's long overdue that we actually have this Awards do and good see scummy mummies on the list.

That's what I was messed my personal pick in your

Tesco show with Stephen big fat nothing I just before the new unauthorised biography of the Daily Mail and ready to Paul Dacre at its by Adrian Addison it's cold mailman, and it's caused enough of us think for the Daily Mail to respond telling the press Gazette I quote every paper in Fleet Street has its trial of resentful for mohacs emptying saloon bars around the world with their Yarns of great operators and bastard bosses Mr Addison must be congratulated on tracking down so many of them and even persuading if you to speak on the record.

It's a shame their tails are as much moonshine as their expenses once were Stephen this is made it sound like a book you definitely would enjoy I would love this book and Paul Dacre has a reputation for excellence of being the biggest Bath to boss of all time and his favourite word is word.

I used quite often in my daily life.

Phoenix Tuesday see you next Tuesday he's a great one for calling people out and stripping to shred and his legendary for this so it's very heart of the male has written is going to know you know who you don't lyrics carers console load of rubbish.

I mean this is this sounds like every word is true to me.

What the new England are there any published so yeah sounds like quite a great books being published does tell you that there's interest from the general public not just the media industry in the way the Daily Mail works back to offer discussion that likes it isn't that people are interesting that paper in the way, but they're not about the Express especially journalist special people in the Daily Mail lot of people hate it but it kind of obsessive kind of way so I think the rumour is that yes, I am and may think that bold a krizikova twisted genius email if they don't want horrible man brilliant journalist.

Whatever, it is the male has that formula and no one can quite cracker Express can't do it and it just sucking in readers and the end and online readers and what about any what is the biggest thing in the world now biggest English language News website is anemic it's been working for so long and been such thing as we've discussed.

Maybe not released this will appear to this appears to show this book but he actually sits in the unlike George Osborne will sit in the office all day personally making sure that the copy looks like he wanted out to write on which is actually quite nice if it's if it's too I think that's saving your eyes scream.

I edit podcast believe it or not.

There is just time for our Media quiz.

This week's entitled the facts machine social media is a wash with post truth and the media podcast is proud to announce its own fact-checking superteam correcting me internet One media news story at a time that statue your task is to correct the stories that come in on our fax machine buzzing with your name when you know the answer to Steven you're saying and Louise you're saying Louis the winner is Facebook that Lucy is democracy.

Let's pull up the fax machine is the first fat for you would my Right Honourable friend agree with these words written by a worker on the London Underground yesterday afternoon penned on a noticeboard shortly after these events Stephen no.

It's a fake website does nobody know that yet, so I hope they will get one of these sounds like you know what the story is it's that awful thing that kind of fake from handwritten font London Underground homely homily from a tube driver.

Just happened to Paul was a thought for today and it's always something very kind of outdoor door gentle or whatever and it's complete bullshit so yes, it was a sign about Londoners resilience in the face of terrorism that appeared to be written via London Underground worker, but it wasn't as you say Steven it was generated by one of those on my chips and generated but then was read out of the house of commons by MP Simon Hoare which is who I was just travelling there and it was also read out by Nick Robinson on the Today programme that same morning Louise did you for finally there so I guess everyone at BuzzFeed can spotter meme?

Horrible day of of terrorism for the UK I tweeted a picture of that sign saying this is really nice, but it's fake everyone everyone was retweeting it.

I got loads of replied saying doesn't matter had stayed because it's such nice sentiment which is a sweet idea, but also concerning idea given the nature of fake news and how we must all be vigilant.

It was quite nice because it always almost didn't matter that it was fake because it was sharing a nice holiday today.

They were worst cases of people not checking their sources on the day as well.

Won't therefore knew you would be on gum who was in jail and his family were not under police protection not great from Simon Israel as well as a pretty respect him who doesn't check the facts about to go on here with something is another triple check with double check with her your something.

Someone in the office would have just did Luke Google search you know what website Chelsea's imprisoned breaking story number to breaking rapper known as Tyler The Creator died in a bus crash what post-truth uses this doesn't if you know the answer Steven again.

This is a ABC News in America good or something like that somebody doing something radical political thing just put a load of rubbish on there.

They were just showing off their mates were listening to decide to young rapper.

You know that I come on.

You could have got trump out of office to get in peach trump.

What is the most high-profile Twitter account that you?

Have the password to but you could dick around with if you wanted to do you know the BuzzFeed UK when Louise actually as I used to work.

I wouldn't use them.

I could wait LBC breaking news if I wanted to I just as James O'Brien then I would be a different we do you have any Twitter accounts on your phone high-ranking conservative ministers though, so I'll give you the LBC breaking password later.

I've got the magic story now.

I know what it is that you talked about here is breaking news number three we have a good working relationship with Andy who is written for us.

Good times we feel his company will add value to the business then again you won this like a hat-trick of if this is right you pasta you because this is a journalism story Louie Louie this is the quote from the Telegraph when they have hired Andy Coulson group PR company representer fake.

It's more a quote that people might disagree with but I'm not sure if it's fake it is the real quote if I managed to rise from the swamp and has managed to get a job incredible, you know piano tutorial for so many years people lose track of the fucking thing right you hear the weirdo Nicholson you remember who said the Prime Minister in any reside a lot of people actually forgot that he did go to prison.

Yes, he went to prison because of the phone hacking scandal.

He hasn't started up for your company which is entitled.

Doing is his expertise is a bit surprising a newspaper would employ him toxic brand new really help bring down the news the world is going to tell everyone that the Telegraph as reputable source, but yeah, it's understandable if that doesn't really pretty and perfect for you.

It is to 12 Steven d Wright on his Media podcast a rate that is it 4 today my thanks to Louise and Steven you can catch up with previous episodes and get new ones as soon as they're released by subscribing for free and I'll website the media podcast., this episode is dedicated to listen and Lucy Murray a mathematician from Cardiff join Lucy keepers on the air go to the media podcast on / donate.

That's what gave you your complimentary water spirit.

Thank you Lucy I've been holyman the producer Matt held Media podcast is a PPM production till next time.

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