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Read this: #68 - How Long Will ITV Hold Their Nerve With The Nightly Show? - The Media Podcast with Olly Mann

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#68 - How Long Will ITV Hold Their Nerve…



Hello, I'm only man and vias is the media podcast thought you today by my cold and vocals are on today.

It's the biggest change to ITV schedule since the 90s or so says controller Kevin lygo that nightly show and News at Ten ratings are tumbling in its first week should the channel hold it and also in the program the bead is to launch BBC Scotland a new linear channel for another day Netflix and his new production Partners in the UK YouTube is launching a live TV service and we find out how to save cash as a freelance celebrity last week's laibach the wall to reveal three cheeses in our Blind Date inspired Media quiz till today's Media pocket and join me in the plush confines of Dennis Publishing are the managing director of content company something else Steve Ackerman and following his very promising debut in a prediction special the digital editor of the week.

Dot co.uk Holden frith Holden you have qualified to a full episode thank you very much congratulations and thank you for having us in your photocopy room it and that you can record a podcast anywhere else.

We've learnt that in the last few weeks of recording the week unwrapped in this very room funny.

You should mention that hold and yes producer Matt and myself and hold him and all the talented staff of the week.co.uk record a new Weekly podcast called the week unwrapped in this very glamourous room.

What you tell that? This is what the show is home so the idea of it is we look for three stories each week, which may not be getting the attention they deserve so things that have just slipped below the headlines, but will be having a real impact on the way we living not just now but in years to come because the thinking was but if you agree with this Steve but there are a few too many news podcast just doing the three big stories of the week.

I think it sounds a great concept and as as an avid reader of the week anything that.

That is excellent.

I think I find Ollie man adds value to that is quite clear and explain why were in the photocopy room because then it's publishing does have very nice meeting rooms it does but it just turns out that the best acoustics come when you're surrounded by Dead photocopy as does it does that ring through with you Steve you've worked in radio a lot.

I'm going to see this is very reminiscent for me of about 25 years ago one of my jobs was literally working in a room a very very small photocopy room which which doubles up as a voice-over Booth will we have mariella Frostrup coming in every week around good anyway.

What are you up to at the moment? I'm nice and busy couple of big commissions going on for Sky coming later this year.

What was anything more than that and our usual mix of loads of stuff with first brands and broadcasters.

Oh come on you give us a bit more than Mercedes we doing something for Sky

I can tell you the kitchen cabinet that we do not have more kitchen can't say forget the podcast excellent picks up with Jay Rayner will have even more programs this year than it has had in previous years, so it really is now a pretty firm staple of the Saturday morning lineup on on the radio for it is a great great show and I'm saying that usually when I said that to bring my mate.

Just remember my way on it, but actually with the kitchen cabinet.

I have no role that I genuinely like which exit right.

Let's take a look at the big TV story of the week.

You can't have missed this even if like me you chose to miss the shower and that is the first week of ITV's nightly show their gamble on a late night us style chat show that they got 3.5 million viewers Steve on Monday at 10 p.m.

But then by Tuesday that's cutting half will look I think like any new programme first when you going to give it a chance to settle in and out and obviously you are going to get an initial amount of audience you come and it will find its own way and obviously each week is very depend.

On who is the host for that? We could is going to changing each each week, so different hosts the programme every night for a week.

I'm really pleased to see a broadcaster giving this another stab because when you look at the creativity in fantastic work that comes out of the American Knightley talk shows and how that's now.

Obviously permeated onto online platforms and YouTube and so even in places like the UK with a conscious of some of that some of that content it's great to UK broadcasters doing that because UK broadcast of very talented creative people the challenge.

I think is the Amad resource that those us shows have in terms of writers and guess bookers compared to what potentially ITV can afford an impossibly show to a little bit I think I'm on I'm not in a couple of the shows this week and it shows to a little bit intensive intensive what's been on the show but they're saying hold them actually compared to other comedy shows and other entertainment shows the budget.

That's gone into this is far greater than would go into if Channel 4 or Channel 5 listings.

Muchacho, so so why why is the quality not on screen? I don't know and I'm slightly depressed to hear that so much money has been spent on it.

Cos it really didn't have that feeling it.

Just didn't feel polished the pace was off David Walliams instead of doing his David Walliams his dick even though he looks he seems to be some of evolving into kind of Bob Monkhouse character modelling.

I worry as well about this idea of the revolving house cos as you were saying Steve it does take time for people to jail for mats.

Gel and it just feels that as soon as one person getting going to get comfortable with it, but then going to be throwing everything into the area and and somebody else is going to have to come and find a way through this new format definitely a serious challenge because there is a real school.

There was a real school in doing this and it's no coincidence.

I think that a lot of the American host of come through the stand-up route where they used to night after night being in front of a live audience understanding did the dynamic of that now has been pretty good this week, but he clearly hasn't talked.

Highest even giving it 7 weeks or 8 weeks.

I have a long leg initially commissioned it for that's not really long enough either when you look at some of the legends of Us late night chat show host Jay Leno was a great comedian and a shit interviewer for about three years it taking ages to learn that skill Stephen Colbert has only just found his character after doing about 7 years.

I think it's the closest thing you get on TV really 202 radio show me know when you look at this of The Big Breakfast shows you get exactly the same thing where you can take 69 months for a breakfast show hosts to really settle into what they're to what they're doing and I don't it'll be in thing to know whether ITV a doing this with a view to you know he's almost live auditions for trying to identify someone who they could bring bring through more in a payment basis.

Always this the format of the Show because if they're going to roll this out and a big away trying to find let's say they'd end up doing it 2030 weeks a year that's that's a lot of people You Gotta Find who can hold a show each week.

What's the bed? It's going to be Stephen bloody men going again.

Well, seriously Bane of my life gets all my voice over child going to be Stephen Mangan isn't it? We doing this before you the other problem with the format is did it feel so much like an imitation of the American equivalent and you know it starting with a monologue going into chat looking at a few funny pictures it just feels that if they are going to invest in is gonna from they could at least try something different and then they wouldn't be compared with the much better much looking much more experienced versions that were used to seeing clips of on YouTube and if you were Kevin lygo, how long was I'm sure you fantasize about how long would you give this show you think even if by the end of this initial run if the ratings having improved if the Crips is still saying it's terrible.

Would you bring it back for a second series later to give it another shocking is a long history of shows like this that often don't find their their foot until the second series and especially as you tweak ideas and change the thinking around it.

So I know I think with creative ideas on what your favourite being patient and and you know you can't make a decision 5 days in.

Times of how successful it can be but it may need to be tweaked and that's fine.

That's part of the creative process 13000.

No, I mean you mentioned the American shows early anything any of them have ever worked at 10 p.m.

Have them over America has a very distinct culture of those late night shows near 111 12 at night.

Why not runners at 11 does it make more sense that way David Walliams doing a chat show at 11 that feels lanre think he doesn't intended as mate.

I'm not sure I agree because I think it's in when you when you look around you know what's up.

What's on the schedule? It's a good fit and obviously ITV presumably I'm making a financial decision here to say ok for the size of audience.

We need to justify the spend on this show where can we put it and I would guess that probably 11 audiences are getting too thin on the ground and as a consequence of this experiment of course the News at Ten has become the news went again.

It's a 10:30 and now it's audiences dropped to under a million at holding Sky News as been plotting tell us about that.

Yes, they're planning to start their own 10:00 news bulletin.

That will be moving into the slot vacated by ITV and competing against the BBC's 10:00 New Year's which moved into that slot when ITV vacated it last time but I mean Sky News is a 24-hour news channels live already had always had a 10p today's forecast at 22 p.m.

Haven't been on it so I suppose that the feeling is there going to have more packaged items at this time and more of a review of the day run unless rolling news, but yeah given the relatively small number of people who I imagine watching Sky News that time I don't think this is going to be a huge shake up for people outside the industry, but then I guess the paper previews pretty popular, isn't it? And that's it 10:30, so it kind of makes sense for Sky to build into that actually from 10 as well when I think there's a slight obsession actually in terms of fine when you look even at the combined audience the ITN and BBC have in the 10:00 so I think want to talk much about 6 million people so it's not huge numbers and I think I'm right in saying that the sky.

That song gets about 100000 viewers, so did I think it's easy for a stick to get overly obsessed about how important this is the main bulletin is still is still the BBC bulletin and actually I think ITV of probably made the right move in terms of seeing can they figure out something else out here in terms of making use of that 10 slot and Noah break between the nightly show in the News at Ten I've already trying to build an inheritance destroying away completely sense of what I think if you can try and build build something up hold onto that all is because if you can get them in for the first new story you got the potential to walk to hold onto the longer ok, let's continue talking about the big flagship bulletins in terms of the BBC and because they are less worried about their 10 and more worried about viewers north of the border so much though, they've announced plans for Scotland's first linear BBC channel surprise complete with a national bulletin of its own Steve this is only can be available from 7 p.m.

Each day so presumably that's using BBC threes digital spectrum at what resources are the people throwing at this from what I can.

He did not Ashley huge budget when you look at those sort of budget that spread across the year was roughly level with BBC4 that's right.

So not a huge amount of money in and oversee the the the pressure for this after I think really built out of the referendum Ireland with adding a lot of comment at that time about the fact that the BBC didn't seem to be doing a lot of bespoke stuff for Scotland but when you look at the political scenario this seems to me a really sensible move that same as a Scotland starts to create more more of its own identity the BBC should ensure there is a bespoke channel running there.

I mean you say that there's not a huge budgets, but I mean you work primarily in radio.

I know you're a multi-platform guy the budgets that they're putting into this TV channel that probably won't be watched by many people apart from this one's got its bullet in could find not only all the overnight program.

They just cut from Radio 2 but all the local radio Services that has threatened with the acts as well and more besides.

Do you know what I am going to send us slightly other politicians answering that you're comparing apples and pears there and I mean you can always look a different.

What is a sable it should be there? So it should be that knowing how much decent TV costs.

It's not a lot of money that they put aside and you know frankly of course I could potentially spend that on other things but that debate will always go on within the BBC and holding this is going to put pressure on the other regions isn't it whales were quite happy with the amount they been given but then now they're getting pissy about the fact that Scotland got more we don't know what Northern Ireland's going to get and inevitably you're going to get these people who's who claim that the BBC isn't England century can so we need to BBC England as well.

It does feel that this is is very much a political decision.

I do something perhaps of the BBC can point out when they're accused of not doing enough for Scotland but as you say that Ben does opened the doors for other regions and what seems odd about the the decision as well as is making it a broadcast channel have its BBC3 from the linear schedules saying that online is the future for TV this then seems like a little bit of a backward step but I suppose it does mean that if

Wales if Yorkshire if Northern Ireland want their own stations then perhaps they can be fobbed off with an online station with further down the line.

I don't think we're going to see her original move like that happening.

I think it's been quite obvious from the failure of London live that there's I don't think there's enough justification of appetite to start breaking down the UK and to those to those sorts of regions except one of the few local TV network that has been working is the One run by STV in Scotland Cross Glasgow now the BBC's going to be competing with that which isn't necessarily making a look that good for the BBC does have a long history of setting up services once commercial operators have done the same when you look at Asian Network same same story we had commercial Asian stations running pretty successfully and then the BBC Television Network 5 Live family history was partly born out of the fact that talk radio was launching around that time and and the BBC and the Iraq war would happen in the BBC Sunday said all that she we could do with the Rolling using used news networks odouriser.

There's a bit of a history of that.

Ok, just finally on this.

Do you think they made the right call? I mean you said yes, they're this is a good idea because of politically what's happening in Scotland so something had to be done but did it have to be this the SNP were pressuring for a Scottish 6:00 news on BBC One won't day and then said they were disappointed by this announcement of the whole new channel instead because it meant that on the channel most people are watching BBC One at 6 to get the News they're still going to be watching story being dictated from the London point of view but I think my understanding is the programme it's going to be created is not just news is it's it's other form of other forms of programming as well and I think this goes back to what you were saying about the 10 news before I think especially from political circles.

They can sometimes be an over obsession about news content when I actually throw a vast majority of the audience that just isn't what they're consuming and therefore if the BBC can be creating content that can be relevant to Scottish audiences that isn't use content.

I think that's to be applauded, but it is all been done because of the 9:00 News Bulletin isn't it holding this new Scottish channel really.

I think it will be in.

Testing to see whether they're little more cultural programs actually get that much traction another way the people north of the border actually interested in watching pretty much the same things that people have for the border or whether with that but it does become London live and they just end up repeating stuff that happens to be based in Scotland let's see it's going to be working with Netflix onto new co-productions by dramas at 1 is about the fall of Troy and will be written by the same screenwriter as the night manager at the other is a second series of The Last Kingdom for BBC Two at Steve Netflix outbid the BBC for the Crown and now they're working together.

Do you think this is about learning to live together or keeping your enemies close? This is really about the new ecology and I think what you see right across the media landscape is one week people can be competing against each other and the next week.

They can be working very closely with each other and

Only when you look at where ITV drama is going on and the high quality threshold that that really has been reached over the past two years where TV drama.

Is is is almost super putty has superseded in some ways movies now in terms of its storytelling ability in the quality of what's being made.

That's really expensive to make and so I think we're going to see this more and more where we have co-productions would be going on for years anyway where the BBC has done a co-production with an HBO or with an American broadcaster of some sort or another because these things cost millions and millions of pounds and I suppose if your licence fee payer you might say well if the BBC can create something that I can enjoy the licence fee payable, which can obviously be be enjoyed or sold elsewhere around the world to help recoup the cost will doesn't make sense so I think this is this is really sensible.

They are the ones you with Netflix is this is a big big beast as they start to dominate the scene more and more in are they going to come into the BBC in five years to do co-productions or is this just a way of them, Excel

Eating their progress as I understand it been in production with the BBC for several years so presumably they had the Talent in the Script already tied up and you think if that hasn't been the case that flips may just too sweet in and said as they did with the Crown will do all ourselves.

We don't need a partner you said obviously that's exactly what happened with the Crown wasn't it? Where where everything we've read the BBC were really came to be a production partner that Netflix has she said no it is a liquid we can do this episode so I think I think we are going to see more more more of this happening with with different broadcasters around around the world.

Do you think it means that the BBC then becomes a sort of incubator for projects and the other kind of put some seed money up developed ideas and then tries to go to Netflix almost as a to the venture capital arrangement where there then can a flood in bring the money and and give it a kind of global footing with this does reflect a bit when you think of what tiny holes announced in terms of

Dior compare and the formation of BBC studio so in effect BBC's in-house production arm becoming an external producing of the cell its ideas it externally this this this kind of plays into that which is ultimately the only two things that that you need to ask him relation to computer compare.

What's in the best interests of the BBC licence fee payers, so can we provide the last three pay with the best ideas where they come from and can we ensure that I desire creator within the BBC produce the best value.

Sorry for BBC commissioner.

Don't want to commission it can there be sold externally in this is kind of a mishmash of both of those ideas.

I think it also I suppose some people say sets of worrying president about the involvement of some of these American corporations in co-producing in terms of scripts and material and seemed like every creative who's interviewed about these things he works with Netflix and Amazon says oh, it's brilliant my hands off.

They don't get involved, but what is that changes in the future? What if they say for whatever reason you know we don't want to be storylines about these kinds of characters of these kind of issues that storyline.

Benefits to Parochial and British you know does that then kill off some of the argument for what makes public service drama different to the kind of things that they produce no because I think the pot surely the point about where we are currently is we have a true marketplace for ideas and so it but you know if that started happening with Netflix and is no indication that it would then those ideas just surface someone else with a with a another broadcast or platform wherein a really really healthy place for creativity at the moment because there is a genuine competition for the best ideas and what that obviously means his people are raising their game in terms of what they're trying to produce any ideas.

They're trying to bring the screen.

It makes me feel that this is probably not Netflix is ideal solution and that they will actually want to move to a system where they are they have full control over everything they've got the money to do it the arrangement of BBC may just be a matter of Convenience for them and perhaps a way of getting access to stories and and and programs that they currently don't it's totally will they continue having the money to do it? I do wonder about this my Netflix

Inscription is still 599 a month I think and it seems to me that this whole strategy is underpinned by more and more people in more and more countries taking out the service as they rolling out but at some point they can hit market saturation mode with rolled it out everywhere so then have they got more money to fun stuff since they don't take advertising.

I think there still a long way off from that point now and I know she loves the money has company investment coming into the into the complement is date as they try and build so I don't finish your day going to face in the near future potential by definition is the possibility of achieving more in the fast-paced world of digital advertising Oracle data cloud has built it's like a seat on finding the signal through the noise on unlocking potential we bring together data and technology to help you better understand your audience where to best engage them and how to measure a tool to realise true potential.

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Come to learn more BBC sounds ancient ancestors listening, that's the sound of a rainforest whatever that is in the Year 2370.

Animal in bed, so if we don't have these things on Earth did you do for Forest 404 a brand new drama podcast starring pearl Mackie to listen to Forest 404 first download the free BBC Sounds app, this is the media podcast I'm only man and with Steve Ackerman and holding breath and I've just done that thing where you tell the audience who's on the show even though this is a podcast Steve I want your opinion on this you seem like the right person to ask is that necessary in podcasting? I never used to do it cos I used to think you download a Podcast you know who's on the show you've been listening to the whole thing but the recap hi-fi.

Actually in a long show is quite useful because you're thinking who are these amazing guess again when I'm not sure about the amazing babe, but I think yeah, you should be telling the audience throughout what's going on there over to your right compared to Raider where people tuning in and out.

It's is obviously different if you're listening to this podcast potential you've paused it and come back to it at a different time but never done any home to remind the audience who are the idiots on the other end of the microphone.

OK what do you think Holden do you think radio convention should be applied in podcast singer you think I shouldn't even introduce you at all.

And it was you just have to come through the metadata.

I'm always happy to be reminded who I am right the news in brief now son has LeapFrog the Guardian in the national readership survey to become the second most read news brand in the UK at pipped still buy the Daily Mail at the survey combines both print circulation and online traffic to give a sense of each newspapers overall domestic reach at the mirror came in third the Guardian is now slipping to fourth place at holding the sun dropped it.

Paywall so that's why it has great leaps forward obvious.

It's always done very well in print and but now they can combine print and online in this survey, but the mirror is doing well as well.

Why really this is the natural order of things being restored that you not the sort of stories that the sun covers would tend have a bigger audience than the sword stories that the garden with cover and with what you have you seen tabloid joint audience with always been bigger in printing and then broadsheet audiences and online at Hatton seems to be continuing the real question is whether the sun can convert these much larger digital audiences into the kind of revenue that will sustain them as advertising Falls away and Steve the Guardian slipping down the list the press Gazette said that was due to a drop in mobile view.

What's going on there? I suppose I'm I'm a little bit surprised because one one would think with what's going on with world news at the moment and institution like The Guardian would be benefiting from that.

You know we've we've we've read quite a lot the way the New York time.

Has had a big bounce out of been denounced by the president many times in the series digital subscriptions increase very very significantly influence the Independent doesn't even have print numbers to add into the mix on this earth anymore.

I took the Guardians really be obvious to standard bearer there, isn't it? Yeah, so they often has to do with Facebook or Google changing their algorithms that can have quite a big effect on how many people get through to the site.

It's slightly odd that the garden seems to have been affected by this alone and there were no particularly huge news stories in September that would have led to a big right there that I can think of is it been doing and you talk about the EU referendum than that might that might be the case with the Presley evening Standard has began releasing One Edition a day.

I'm angry about this Steve I was used to look for the West End vinyl label, and I thought that was my little secret trick but not every London and you about their used to slip a late addition into.

Print run with breaking news from that morning, but now they've made this moved to cut that which coincides with plans to cut sub editors hours to half a day having their pay in the process play Devil's Advocate loading the late edition is not relevant in the world of rapidly developing online use discuss.

I think that's really think you probably got to the the heart bear of what's happening here.

So you know the evening Standard has had a bit of a revival really in recent years since it went free and boosting circulation became more appealing to advertisers, but it seems like that's probably not a long-term model for the next decade couple of decades it may just be a short-term wiring a little bit more out of the and the printer model well if they still can but at the time when people can get up-to-the-minute news on their phone.

Why would you want to look at something that's been printed.

Several hours before see I really do think the point of an Evening paper is that you're getting that days news otherwise? What is the USP apart from the fact that they're free and so is metro we are getting that days new New Guinea it later than the the morning papers have printed.

It seems to me that it's taken this long to get to the point where they're not know what they're taking taking the moves that they are three exactly what you describe seems very outdated to me the idea that you're rushing out onto the streets another another edition.

You know that just isn't the way the world works anymore post-brexit.

They fall in the pandas.

Meant to cost a paper has risen at the same time print advertising has taken quite the sharp downturn in the last 6 months so there clearly just trying to cut costs is the brown problematic online bow and when I realise I'm putting this question to a person who runs the daily news site which is called the week, but you know it's called the evening Standard online.

That's a bit harder, isn't it?

Traction when you doing Morning News I think that's the sort of issue that people forget about very quickly, it's not before coming to the week and running our daily website.

I work the Sunday Times and try to edit a website that I have for you got an itch and it's in a particularly when people are finding a lot of then use either through search or through social media and the brand is not foremost in a lot of people's Minds that's one of the reasons that some of the established brands are are struggling, but it does mean that if you're if you are covering news well and with immediacy you will likely to be able to get back infront of people whatever your name ok and Steve if you follow your logic through then if you're the Sun or the mirror you don't do your late edition anymore.

You just printer 10 p.m.

The night before let the future for all these Brands is that they've got to be without the online propositions.

So you know in terms of those additions.

I think is Louis different because you're obviously running through the through the night you actually do have a greater flexibility because less people obviously.

Human what was originally originally printed in and more developments can can happen in terms of in the daytime particularly in the afternoon it just seems nonsensical and I think this will struggle that the struggle that I see for the evening Standard terms of online.

Is is the same thing that many of the newspaper brands have which is what does it stand for online? It has a raison d'etre in terms of a print edition which is you know I'm rushing over new pick-up you pick up something something to look out on your way home online.

It doesn't have that because it's not the only news source that you can go to and Frankie also the the website in the mobile version is appalling in terms of how slowly at loads and and it's very very clunky very very poor.

So if it's really going to be presents online.

It's got to really figure out.

What is its its reasoning clearly the London angle needs to play up to a much much stronger element than it currently does that seems to me that seems to me to be obvious thing because old and they're still I mean you're not with one of the biggest cities in the world.

We got the biggest gun.

Tration of Media problem any city in the world and yet a lot of our London brands timeout is a global website LBC is attempting to be a British racing proposition aren't about the city at all.

I think that actually maybe one of the problems facing the evening Standard is that a lot of London news becomes national news, so when they cover a story they are actually competing with the Times the Guardian the Telegraph maybe they try to go down the more local route, but the garden tried that a few years ago with Harry Lotta reporters to cover and cities in in great detail and a band that because they just wasn't the advertising money behind it.

Let's move on to radio and wave goodbye to Classic radio brand unique above the title and smooth operations because their parent company 7digital have rebranded them all in there image and have began trading this week under the 7digital name Steve do you understand what they're doing this? I would assume that part of this is potentially to do with compete or compare.

And so we talked about this bit earlier in relation to TV it's affecting the radio world as well so up until now 20% of radio BBC Radio output has been eligible for competition from outside providers.

That's going up to 60% of the next few years and so lots of companies are positioning themselves ready to to take full advantage and maybe they are look at this and thinking were ok.

We got a number different brands that create programs across a number of different networks far better when I'm for one name than three different names are doesn't it's any anything particularly significant rebrands happen all the time for various different in a commercial entities size of historic names in radio on British commercial radio unique because unique was actually if not the first incentive one of the first production radio production companies to be set up so unique as a special place and smooth does as well as always done some fantastic working and particularly coming out of the below that of Northwest they are significant brand but again you always have to say.

Times of the listener terms of licence be paid does it mean much it doesn't really it is just another name of the end of the show this is the show was produced by and you run a proper indeed as it were but are we going to see The Rise you think of the super indeed in radio multiplatform my trip seem entirely.

I certainly think we're going to see some new entrants coming in because of the amount of content is going out and and yes, I do think we're going to see a big increased because it's a natural thing did it did it the marketplace is expanding racing differently and obviously outside of the BBC this usual the opportunity is going on with people like Amazon and other Cedar podcasting world as well.

I'm not sure we'll get to super indeed status, but I do think you'll see you'll see some consolidation going on there and sticking with radio should local commercial stations be tied to their service licences.

That's the question being asked in a new consultation launched by the Department of Culture media and sport the outline argues that regulations of burdensome for stations looking to experiment with say music outside the original agreement when they got their.

Isense at Holden do imagine as much outcry over these proposals.

I can't imagine that people going to be marching through the streets about them.

It feels really kind of people who are looking for to the very distinctive radio are probably going to be gravitating towards their local BBC and stations and I wonder whether there is really a huge need to and to regulate commercial stations in this way, what why were these regulations put in place Stephen it was basically so that not every station sounds like heart, wasn't it? Well.

I think they they were originally put in place in that you gotta go back 2025 years at a time when bandwidths was a scarcity and that'll be produced the value of commercial stations.

That's why they got sold for huge amounts and part of that was ok if you're going to be giving something that's round has value.

You need to commit to touch me know what your offer is within the marketplace win an award of Apple Spotify on demand music and I think I see this is this is a long overdue move.

I think absolutely commercial radio stations.

The time when it is pretty difficult to to make serious money out of a commercial radio station, I should have the flexibility absolutely to identify the music they think will best serve the audience.

They're trying to reach any and if it doesn't work they should be allowed to change and try and try something different yeah.

I'm in the not stupid.

They can offer what their listeners want to hear because that's what they're selling advertising against but what is the alternative case here? What's the equivalent of local news on public service broadcast whatever the traditional things people might be upset about when regulations change what might lessons miss out on well.

I mean really this is not about our world things that news be reduced.

I think if you if you read what's been proposed by the government.

They're saying that there would still be some some some elements of fair restriction around around that.

It's really about the flexibility around around the music content and and most of the licences will currently so you know you are providing a pop music station or jazz station and if you want to move from being a Jazz station to a soul station you need to then go back and get a changing your licence this quiet.

Emerson Process if a newspaper suddenly decides it wants to go from broadsheet to tabloid or it wants to run more sports stories than it did last week it just does it overnight and I'm not quite sure why Radio never really been forced into these restrictions of the set-up me know in the current world as opposed to the world we were in when he's licences first started being given out 25 years ago any obvious candidates for commercial radio stations that you think might change over night.

You got a look at where that middle ground is which is obviously highly competed over in terms of Smooth magic heart.

You know this seems to me a lot more space for some differentiation and when you look at what absolute has done with some of its sub brands, which have done really really well in upstate is absolute 90s and the same with case with things like history that I think would suggest that some of those station didn't need to vacate the middle ground and identify a much stronger niche that they can really own and commercialize its easy to see global isn't it combining some of his ideas smooth classic for example yeah, yeah.

Very good.

Thank you for that YouTube to launch a live TV service in the United States you did not hear me wrong that launching a telly channel that was supposed to end TV hold them.

What is this? Why they doing? This is another example of which is a way of getting a small number of premium services for a reduced fee does a Buick similar services available in the US and Hulu I think is one of them.

I suppose the nearest equivalent here.

We have is something like a NOW TV which is a answer of subscribe and scription but YouTube you know if you were to describe to someone who didn't know what they're brand was what YouTube is.

It's like the opposite of a TV channel.

Isn't it? Isn't there whole point that it is everywhere apart from TV when it's trying to own viewing isn't it? And when I read this.

I thought that is another stab in the heart for cable TV in America which is stoically was a

A dominant force and over the past few years has been radically reduced and you know the fact that most TVs that are sold now are smart TVs and I know I might be that one but now got YouTube and in fact only other night.

I was watching thanks to my wife.

I was watching the ABC red carpet show from the Oscars on YouTube so so so so already we are seeing a pattern of behaviour where people are gravitating away from little 5-minute videos which YouTube historic Lee was too much longer viewing spells much do that.

You say ok.

You must make your meds might hold channel available on YouTube apps on Smart TV for a few years now, but it is still of a linear channel.

I just wonder who that would appeal to is not your YouTube viewer.

Is it so they aiming at older people? I think it is a bit hard to see and particularly in the UK we have Freeview which is actually a pretty good skinny bundle if you want to look at it in that way and gives people access to pretty wide range.

I'm digital services and also sports right here very expensive and very complicated and that's been one of the big drivers in the US of im getting people to subscribe to add to these packages and YouTube will be showing various us sporting events ok and before we get to the media quiz consider Vanities at a feel-good and finally story after press Gazette discovered that as many as a third of freelance celebrity press interviewers could be on benefits someone has a simple solution for journalists a kind of Life hack if you will hold and can you explain to me what this is this is a essentially a Facebook group which is meant to connect freelance reporters with celebrity PR without having to pay to get access to and databases of Media contacts can interview celebrities and then sell their work.

I mean as an organisation Steve do something else paid to be on those kinds of directory things like Media I'll go, or whatever not read.

Do you know I think most broadcast entities would not expect to do that because obviously if you're if you're a platform and out there so Princes we make the Kermode and Mayo film review yeah, we'll see Tony expect to be paying to get access to 2 movie stars all the databases that will tell us when there are around we have it works the other way round was in the film companies want us to know because they want the stars to be featured and what about you holding.

Would you consider Dennis Publishing subscribing to things like this but if you fancy it though.

It is called the celebrity interview club is a closed group on Facebook I don't know what the entry criteria is let us know.

There is now just time for our Media quiz.

This week it's entitled Blind Date syndicate reviews that channel 5 is bringing the once popular dating format back to our screens.

We here at the media podcast thought it would be a lot a lot of fun to try and do a little matchmaking of our own.

I'm going to describe an international territory desperately Seeking entertainment you tell me the country and we're show or shows would make a hot date buzzing with your name so holding You'll Stay Holden and Steve you're saying the winner is Cilla Black the loser Paddy McGuinness here.

We go contestant number one.

I am a 202 year old country with some previous anger management issues, but that's all behind me now holding holding is this Germany it is Germany let me finish my contestant statement.

I'm looking for someone with a bit of imagination.

What's the story has bought the rights to ss-gb and imagines their prey?

Is a burst of Anger Management was more successful than it actually ended up.

I wasn't surprised by that idea Steve that Germany would be interested in a in a drama about the Nazis and actually particularly one that they'd never be able to actually commission will actually the Germans are one of the countries.

Who are the best at talking amongst themselves about Nazi history than many other countries around Europe so so yeah, I'm sure this show with that.

She probably go down pretty well.

All right here contestant number to I am a nation of over 1 billion looking for someone to help entertain and inspire our many Only Children Are Steve Steve this is not coming with the name, but it it Basie c3400 the story is that a network or an outlet in China is going to broadcast the Hall of CBBC and that's right.

That's the story.

It is CBeebies actually but yeah Chinese vod platform is bought over 300 hours of CBeebies

Show today over 20 million subscribers at this was at the BBC worldwide showcase hosted earlier this month in Liverpool that is a great thing isn't it? Because CBeebies is brilliant content for young kids isn't it? I think better than what the Americans producing and that's the market.

We won't tapping into before what my my children a bit too old now, but but they all grew up on CBeebies and CBBC and Anna and genuinely I think those are fantastic children's channels and something the BBC to be really really proud of opportunity for a bit of soft diplomacy as well as a lot of children's TV shows habitat of element of in a healthy disrespect for authority and creativity individualism.

Yes all of these things that mean I think it's great that the entire point of the BBC as we have right finally let's hear from a couple.

They got together on an earlier edition of blind date syndicate.

It's contestant number 3.

I thought she was interested in me because of my good sense of humour and how good I

What's the kids but behind my back she was stealing my best lines and passing them off as my own holding can't remember the country.

Ok? I might be a time.

I'm ready to jump on hold every time.

It's an animation series called The Amazing World of Gumball Tesco network series yeah, they were being plagiarized by rival producers and they kind of exposed amid show that's right.

You can probably from the story.

That's what country was they were from China again.

Copy of Cartoon Network The Amazing World of Gumball and had an exposed to this breach of copyright.

Didn't they reflect back some of the things that they done that they done in the pirated version they reflected back in the in the major or was it that I made it in the United vs.

Lee too busy to you.

Haven't been watching me baby will become what they did is a great in episode where they met their Chinese counterparts a bit like that joke in The Simpsons Family Guy

Walking but better anyway, because you split the points there vibrate surely not on Blind Date how disappointed maybe you can go about scrapping a chauffeur today my thanks for Steve Ackerman and Holden frith catch up with all previous episodes including a bonus episode on influencer marketing and get new episodes as soon as they're released by subscribing on our website the media podcast.

Come thank you so much to everyone who has donated to the show since we did our pledge drive earlier this year dedications coming in the next episode if you haven't given us any money yet and yet.

You've got this far into the show why not join those who have dug deep into their pockets and keep us on the air by going to be Media podcast opcom / donate keep me in vocal so I've been only man the producer Matt Hill and the media podcast is a PPM production until next time.

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