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Read this: #65 - Has the BBC given up on millennials? - The Media Podcast with Olly Mann

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#65 - Has the BBC given up on millennial…

Hello and welcome to the media podcast I'm only men on today's show has the BBC got a problem with millennials good BBC Three online only and Radio 1 investing resources in YouTube corporation giving up on Broadcast telly.

Why did the government block a candidate to the Channel 4 board and one of the Guardian writing leaders about it and it's explain all plus Netflix reveals.

I'm not revealing their ratings still we get a sneak peek at the latest tech for the radio industry and in the media quiz we pick another tired game show format and give it the shiny floor treatments and it's also come on today's Media podcast and joining me in a noisier than usual part of the hospital club.

It's because some sort of exciting corporate event is happening in our usual hangout is the combined intellect of three Media practitioners from Business Insider we have senior news editor Jake and Ty hello from folder Media radio consultant Megan and making head debut on the show TV producer Sooty

Hello Susie hi last time we spoke we were in a bus on the way to watch Shane Smith talk to be over Susie it's come to my attention that your current job producing the National Lottery live, sort of means you're on the show two weeks late, because we talked in the last episode all about how that's going online only yes, that's right.

Yes, I listen to that.

It is going online and it has been something that's been happening over the years because obviously it started back in 94 and it was alive it a massive event had huge huge viewing figures and auntie event still carries on and still has massive buying from all the people who buy tickets every week.

There's a different feeling about television How television news, is it now so obviously Camelot to run the National Lottery are looking to go more digitally with their uses and perhaps those who watches are on Saturday night's lottery different in terms of where they hoping to go, but I think.

I think about Camelot as they would like to keep as many users as possible as many ticket prices possible, so going online guilty that opportunity to reach more people does mean.

I won't have a job after December but he is there no big shiny floor unveiling aber Falls anymore.

That will be gone at the moment on Wednesday they do we have another studio there over at Pinewood and the joys done their automated as such and uploaded to YouTube every Wednesday so the same thing will happen except you're going to the iPlayer on Saturday night.

So that should be found on BBC that via the iPlayer now, so something's coming from Camberwell to was it a decision by the BBC really because it has always been because that's the nature of what this thing is it's the most bizarre or different kind of television program out there because it has a commercial onto it and get the BBC make it and and it's a massive national event again.

There's nothing much like that else nowadays, especially and certainly getting to grips of the Inner

He was extremely old from my background and just making programs for commissioners that are about getting people watching for various reasons this was about giving information that was extremely important to many millions and we can get up to you know 5 1/2 6 million at Christmas viewing figures which you know if there any 8 minutes show is not bad really enjoyed and we were speculating last episode about whether or not removing the National Lottery from its broadcast ex would affect the ratings for the quiz shows that wrap around it.

I'll be there waiting the nature of each quiz shows different obviously and he watches it but certainly when we do our hips.

Especially the lotto draw there is always a rising in viewing figures but also when we do a 10 on Saturday night 10 minutes.

Lot we still making 3 1/2 million viewers quite often wear top 5 in the broadcast entertainment shows of the week for an 8-minute.

Show me something for you to put on your CV on LinkedIn come January

As well, I guess it is very lucky.

I've been there 2/2 years which he does there anywhere in whatever job so I've just had a bowl you were just recently in Denmark talk about the future of radio.

Yes, so this is already a conference coming up in Amsterdam in March Parade Asia Europe and Tim helping the team their program that come up with lots of different sessions, but I've just come back from the Netherlands as we took all the folder team at efteling with the Dutch theme park for our Christmas party.

Have a look a little days because of that what's different about a Dutch theme park to brick sample going to Alton Towers left-winger I sponsor on fun kids are always happy to go and see see them to ok excellent and Jake kanter.

You know what I don't need to ask what you been up to because we are going to start with one of your stories this week if you're special this is a bit of a regional reporting.

TV audience figures and you've discovered they have a problem with millennials.

That's right.

I guess the starting point for this was the BBC was Conor crowing about planet Earth 2 beating the X Factor in terms of the battle for young viewers which you know it is interesting and admirable, not very surprising planet Earth is probably the best television show this year and the X Factor is so tired.

It hasn't got out of bed for 3 years.

So it wasn't really a fair battle but anyway that was the starting point for this and I thought I'd look at the BBC's youth audience take abroad of you and see how it's done this year and the results I get a not massively surprising BBC3 gone off air and the BBC's youth audiences fallen around 7% but is that the audience of people watching their output including online or is it just the broadcast television?

Guess the BBC say and response well.

Yeah, we'd expect that we put BBC Three online, but it's a very popular.

I think that I think that's probably true that some were even say that they've the drop could have been greater for the BBC but I think it's still worrying I think the BBC has a job to keep young viewers watching television by taking BBC3 off air and some of the other channels perhaps not delivering in the same way that they should be in in terms of the of audiences, then it's late babe.

There is a risk that there's a gap that opens up in the BBC's audience and it risks losing a future generation of DVDs yeah.

I received your nothing along the risk.

I guess is that millennials.

Then me some millennials grow up as many as can be up to about 34 count my generation grow up as licence fee payers thinking why am I paying this thing that I don't want to do I think that's a valid question in some ways in terms of the way.

They're going to be viewing at my son's 16.

He is the beginning of a millennia.

I was born in the Millennium and certainly he few things in a different way.

He always sick and screens everything but

He still make an appointment to view he still sat down at 9.

I'm a Celebrity but still and I do think they have that appointment to view down more choice in what they're doing.

I don't think we should ignore the fact that they did watch planet Earth II because actually we be slightly arrogant think that might be something with interest them even so I think the fact that they did is really important, but I think it's really also important to realise that we must accept the different viewing habits and that that is part of the nature of the element of choice they watch YouTubers making their own decisions making their own editorial and they think they should be just as in charge of the viewing it as those people are in terms of their making a television or win for the BBC earlier this year when they managed to extend the licence fee to iPlayer which means that all those people only engaging with BBC's content online still have to pay their licence came from advertising point of view Matt does it matter in a way that ITV channel 5.

I'll gaming from millennials not watching BBC3 cuz actually I mean that's quite good.

Isn't it? The business he can't able that will give you advertising.

Because I coming to use for impact probably available up for grab some people want a TV moment in front of a television and not consuming something online dangerous for the BBC is that it removes younger people from seeing trails from understanding.

What's on the networks which are much miles is capable on iPlayer all getting it that way do you lose touch with having those points where you go to Auntie I mean? I was watching last night.

One of those Stacey Dooley documentaries on iPlayer I don't even know if that was a BBC is that BBC3 just came off iPlayer I don't even know if I was nightmare exclusive whether she's now on BBC One Talent weather is BBC3 does it actually matter are we moving to the government of Amazon and Netflix as well, but I think it only matters for those broadcasting in terms of quantifying everything and then knowing where to go in the future perhaps you know for the viewer with take a much more ownership of our own habits and we believe we can beat control.

Channel brands for less important these days people go to certain shows on demand players because they're drawn below shows not by the channel brand the Future 2 go to the BBC brand as they were in the past.

I don't know I think is it kinds of programs as well, so if you're very very comfortable consuming on to more content for Amazon or Netflix or more likely to consume that than than older demos then that's less of a grab for the BBC BBC On Running lots of event based programming so for that.

I'm a Celebrity the voice X Factor perhaps less sport on the BBC now again less opportunities to capture a chunk of that ordered recirculating quite a lot of there's one thing I think that's a bit like that's unusual for the BBC in 10 months now.

I think we are due and a coherent update on how BBC3 is performing and I think that needs to come soon from the BBC careful choice of words.


Are you suggesting?

They've been incoherent.

That's not what I said put nothing out.

I mean we've had no nothing to grasp in terms of how BBC threes doing and whether that decision has been the right one and Matt when it comes to Radio 1 cos you've been following sort of how they've been migrating Mare audience from YouTube and developing their online presence is this playing out well for them as well or does it still matter that their numbers are going down in terms of analogue and digital got a number of challenges Rio I wouldn't want to be in their position to get rid of bathroom from all angles and what isn't she doing about their non radioactivity.

So yeah, they have an iPlayer Channel they commission new content for that each week.

That is a very high-quality this very watchable.

I know that sweet and some of those guys are there they have issues with how much that can be promoted across the BBC suite of products specially when BBC3 is a Focus doing a similar kind of job in Italy you see space adding Radio 1 the radio end of things is clearly under pressure and it's

Beyonce performing the market as a whole so it's easy to go home 5024 since the radio anymore actually if you look at the ratings to reach is fairly solid the hours of dropped but no kissing capital haven't seen the same element of decline that the radio one has so if you're interesting to see whether 2017 they have another look at the schedule or or or ask a question.

That's just occurred to me.

I never really thought about the answer to this before but happy know it does Radio 1 on YouTube Take advertising didn't you think it does now? What is introduced a split out a lot of the Live Lounge into a Radio 1 VEVO channel that imagine is probably on demand from the record companies who own most of Vivo and I imagine that's monetised outside of the UK so point of view it a dangerous place radiant it for a long time on the precipice of government and whatever saying if we can commercializing.

Radio one seems like an obvious place to start saying don't listen to this kid's watches on a commercially own broadcast video channel is it necessarily one-to-one to be there ready 1-0 down watching Stacey Dooley Radio 1 is the biggest Radio Youtube channel in the country and when I looked at it last week.

They done 14 million views last month of November on YouTube so it works well, though.

Obviously if you have Taylor Swift turn up you going to do a couple of million views on YouTube Ben Stiller Leo Radio 1 material has been sold overseas before and it still sold overseas some the dance programming.

Is it that much difference run ads for BBC worldwide on YouTube outside of the UK book overstay with the younguns now and be fresh face staff of digital news platform BuzzFeed UK have requested Union recognition in a letter to editor Janine Gibson roughly 80 journalists at BuzzFeed ask for the power of collective bargaining.

Through the nuj the BuzzFeed CEO Jonah peretti is in London at the moment.

He's obviously little peeved at the timing of this and wrote an email few days ago saying to the staff would like an opportunity to talk directly with you before you make any irreversible decision Susie this is classic schism.

Isn't it between sort of new media and all media digital media is sceptical about traditional worker rights we've seen that will be going to the courts and yet BuzzFeed is kind of trying to take star from institutions like The Guardian so you've got to expect that they're going to want trade union representation at you.

Think BuzzFeed are right to be sceptical about it or do you think the journalists are right to ask for it? I think they actually I think it's obvious that employees would want to protect themselves, but I also think it's totally fair for a company to say please come to us director thought it's very open and honest as long as you're being open and honest and that's absolutely how it should be but I do think protection from a union.

Is is the right thing for the majority?

You know because they are majority but they're their employees at the end of the day.

You're free lots as in this case.

There are a lot of people who don't have any uni recognition to have gone up in the world where they would expect it now, but there's a sense of isolation of elements 80 that goes along with that because I am my own self my own brand and I have to go and sell myself all the time and quite often well definitely no support no not going to help me get a job on a month-by-month basis as they're there to protect you when things get rough and I suppose most people will appreciate that but not a lot of people always use it either so there is that quandary is once you get it make sure you use it or or or find places for it.

So that it doesn't become a know something that's there but majority from the feeling sick because my wife has just been denied her flexible working request following maternity.

He's technically with the nuj or whatever and feels like if she made an appeal with them.

She would be going against the company that would stop them whatever it is because you know that you will be at burn your Bridges and the thing that you want least at that moment of your most difficult times when you've had a child and your wrestling with how you deal with that is for somebody get to go well actually.

No you can't do that.

You're not coming.

I was literally off food and being a producer.

I went back after 3 months.

There's loads of history to my situation my some of the basic and the only part time job.

They would offer me remember producer but the receptionist position that it was a long time ago, but still the fact that the method of treatment of people get it was incorrect but I but I had no supports then because again 15 years ago things are a bit different anyway.

I think and I do believe that flexible working is the way forward because you lose so much talent through.

You know I have to work but I want to work and so many people do want to work because so many media jobs are to a daily your kind of by daily deadline.

It's not as if you're welcome home weekly shows that it is very easy to transfer a sphere from those above that you might be getting something a better deal than I am so joke for Business Insider what's the deal is there a Union representation for the staff there's not now Bernard I don't think there is from what I can gather.

I don't think as the desire for that although the ambition for either.

I think we got very young t it goes back to what you were saying about BuzzFeed hiring a lot of traditional journalist the Guardian we come from a slightly different place.

I thought the story was quite admirable.

Yeah, we know about because Busby punisher on the runway.

I think Simon they probably taking a decision to own the story.

I'm in a it would have been reported elsewhere.

I would certainly have written this story and but the fact they take your own.

Shape of it.

Is is is a good thing it sounds like they're not going to get what they want Jonah peretti was pretty.

How many poured cold water on this idea in his email reply and I can I just read you a little bit.

Please unions represent employees around a rigid skill set that doesn't reflect the fluid and flexible way, we work they produce an extra layer of your pussy and processed and unnecessarily divide our teams limiting the benefits.

He's going to say no to sit down on Saturday to talk it out over something over 8 reasons you're not getting any better, I was going to say I'm disappointed.

They didn't say top 20 reasons why I'm at the agility of the workforce in a digital environment and all that bullocks.

I mean you know there is something to be said for responding quickly isn't there is a digital business which might be hampered by Union that's right.

Often late Union recognition satellite BuzzFeed is facing it is sometimes because of the result of what happened previously.

I think some companies where employees feel that their workforce cares about the more they get a better deal less likely to go down this route, but it was for all those businesses to the start of this is to decide that this same debate happened with vice earlier this year and weiss said no we're not going to recognise the Union instead.

We're going to set up some sort of employee committee which she nuj was very grumpy about they call it a sort of old-fashioned Union busting Ruiz who uses we were both change government took the unusual step of blocking a Channel 4 board appointment that cause frustration of The Corporation since the appointment in question was to be the first board member of a black or minority ethnic background.

Jake for white men were eventually appointed business as usual.

I can't emphasize enough how the strength of feeling Channel 4 over this issue behind behind the scenes of mixture of anger and complete dismay, because fundamentally undermines everything that channel 4 was trying to achieve they set themselves up as a broadcast that champion diversity in all its various shapes and sizes and for them to have a board that is exclusively wait no pretty much middle class is real.

Just Eat just completely undermined at work.

I think you got the situation where you've got ministers have been in there jobs for 5 months less than 5 months deciding on what is good for the TV industry the telling really experienced people telling Ofcom what is good for Channel 4 and that is ridiculous that that's the irony.

Isn't it that the person we talking about by the way is the former Arts Council deputy Alpha fmc?

Tuesday that was a board member that was turned down and that was the decision ultimately the culture secretary Karen Bradley some people would say well.

Why is Karen Bradley dictating who else is up to a job when Karen Bradley has cell doesn't really seem to have the government's continue obsession with interfering in broadcasting a relatively small industry in the grand scheme of things but it surely someone somewhere the same as I'm not a thick bunch of people.

They are a bright lots that someone with either the Optics of this even if you ignore the ridiculousness of not making the channel that supposed to be different beer have a broad board anybody recognise this would be an issue in why would of course come out in the come out in the Press because they're all white middle-class people wear that you have the decency.

Pretty good job on the bay, miss you and raising it quite aggressively.

I do need references and bring it to before obviously talented to do all of this but also it just makes a question about what the skill sets are that required anyway that and what where she didn't take the boxes I suppose but also his to say that those boxes are to be the same every time somebody is place and actually are you looking as famous being attributes because it brings so much? I'm so didn't place she start at Secondary Education and she's worked with children and youth are needed to Port Sudan get the name.

Nobody else has any kind of backgrounds like that and if you're looking for diversity and certainly that's obviously been on the cards.

Especially television will be encouraged to look at that.

I mean.

How do they extricate themselves from this because really it's a nonsense isn't it in your program of people that bring different of the day that she hasn't got the skill set.

Why is the skill set led by the job descriptions led by the skill sets of the people who already there surely the skill sets can be moved in change depending on who the people are each Time You Know and she clearly has a different set of skills which is why you would bring her in accelerator journey of your business with a new office space at Royal Albert Dock sit in the heart of London's most exciting regeneration project royal Albert Dock is a new waterside community offering a range of flexible workspaces that up to half of the cost of the city of London and one-third less than Canary Wharf enjoy a high quality Workspace with great travelling business is not a destination.

It's the journey make the journey rad find out more at our radar London definition is the possibility of achieving more.

The fast-paced world of digital advertising Oracle data cloud has built its Legacy on finding the signal through the noise on unlocking potential we bring together data and technology to help you better understand your audience where to best engage them and how to measure a tool to realise true potential Oracle data cloud where better outcomes begin visit Oracle data cloud., to learn more noticeable stories for the week in media and this week's all the annual radio tech con event stay with me.

I know it sounds nearly is actually really interesting is when you take is showcased by the industry for the industry frankly for the nerdy part of the industry which is why Matty can is here.

What did we learn this year? What is that used to be ready Academy event, but it's now an independent one so the people who used to run it have taken out on the road themselves very well attended by 150 people interesting mix.

Yes that sort of engineer.

End of things very well represented like today so much about technology is connected to program making and it's important.

I think if you're a progressive programme maker to be exposed to some of these topics as talking to people who went to work to Sarah Lyons the the more geeky end of things and and they definitely took something from it and some good examples around the world running radio stations as a conference call introduced session on that but by moon where there are parts of the world where they're not too.

Keen on her Independent voice and don't necessarily would tolerate Studios actually hosting a big conference call that brings on guests and hosts and in broadcasting now as a different way to reach people are listening in effect ring into to stay silent and hear hear audio what's going on in the country and also talked about some of the different aspects of how a radiator made or or distributed as a Big Sur

She's on binaural at so if you think of headphones and a lot of Oreo consumption now is in a headphone environment rather than the speaker in a box and what can you do with Productions you? How can you make it an exciting drama where you're scared about the person who's behind you walking towards you as there's a footsteps approached that is relevant to a radio producer is a podcast audible the Amazons audio system to encourage people to make beautiful content and object-based radio is one of those words.

Did the show now.

There are one two three four of us speaking and we're all a different Mike Channel So in effect.

We could do a re-edit of this program where I disappears and the talk about radiator cold wasn't there or one where somebody just wanted to hear what Jake says something to describe that mathematical ways.

Reminder or listen to 40 Minute podcast but you might want to say hello mate, when you're recording that program to start to think about all of the different elements in different ways he well that's what they always said earlier than 90s digital television will be like it when we never saw it but actually be think about a podcast of a radio program.

So it might have a music bed underneath that you can't clear for podcasts that could be removed or an element that works with different territory says more about thinking about the right kind of technology to use when making something BBC trials for interest in this space as we're doing things around like the radio being able to address you and give you local travel news and things like that when you walk in a room and that that's why I've heard the BBC Solent solicitor bit about her drama producers thinking about what are the core elements of programmes if you've just got 20 minutes you get that version if you've got an hour you get a slightly longer there.

How do I see there's it's an interesting technical challenge? Is it something that but listen this one and I think it's we start to see the BBC roll out there personalised audio streaming for listeners, which can include your new source port this more specific to an individual actually knowing that someone can only eveready has a tolerance of 20 minutes for a dog or a or a drama and if the programs made in the right way than they can get that ok, and if you've only got 8 hour and 3 minutes to radio geekery good because we going to talk about the videos Netflix now who are to launch new non scripted series next year.

Do you think they're doing that making a murderer had a lot to do with it.

Didn't it? As I suppose really water cooler is everybody they meant the fantastic ability to go viral everything in conversation has made them realise that there is just as much interest and enthusiasm certainly the girls in my office or consumed with interest and crime docs and anything like that and making it accessible and making it something that.

Thought can what's easily and on-demand and in that box scenario again.

It's about us being the rules of our viewing isn't it? It's been hugely popular and quite incredible actually more so than on terrestrial.

I think could you give her some Regina is that just wouldn't work on Netflix when you got a background in in daytime this morning bright Starts shake that you think that can you show could win that seems like something that you want to engage with liver talk about the issues of the Day of destruction telly good that work.


I suppose it in daytime is the same as news in in in that sort of way in that you're in the moment.

Aren't you and you're watching in the mouth, but saying that certainly lots of it.

It's been pulled out and put online to then watch and rewatch.

You know I think the I think that is not place to live daytime stuff in there that I do see the possibility of those kinds of non-scripted being really popular because it's been proved by the amount of people who've consumed it.

So quickly so greedily as well.

I think I'm not I don't know the amount do we will it they don't they never want to talk about the rating because he said we know.

What you talking because I guess the only people that want to know really about the ratings of people that want to give it a kick.

Yes, they're about satisfy subscribers as long as they're metric shows are they doing that that's all they really care fascinating.

They won't even tell the producers of the program and if the deal is Netflix will give you a whole series are too serious commission that's incredibly well funded, behaviour never know how many people watch it.

I probably shouldn't take the month on Netflix shows she's a big Diana Marin prison chief it still and I last last episode we were talking about how late night chat probably won't work on ITV I'm out place on Netflix is given opportunities to show that will absolutely thrown out of a very many commissioners offices over in America lino crazy ex-girlfriend went banging on doors for years and it is the best thing as she won an Emmy with an e.

Here once it was on Netflix see no so I think they're giving him being given the opportunities and the money they gratefully received on those who would be very excited about to give Netflix Amazon Hulu honestly don't have the data to back up any speculation.

I might have I did it feels like they sort of win their the marketing awarded the watercooler war but Amazon's had a big moment with the Grand Tour and yeah, they tell us but that has broken all records for viewing we have to Ocado take their working or an Amazon yeah, and which the biggest it before was what transparent transgender Jewish families not Top Gear is it but I think the biggest selling it anyway anyway.

Clothes are so you can watch them anytime anywhere that is a big deal.

It means that the service is now online with Amazon and I think that will only mean growth for Netflix my my Twitter is basically fun to be doing cos anyway, but I've never seen so many people in one go go on my god, Netflix downloads.

It's going to change my life.


They're gonna ineffective make international versions of some of that non-scripted simultaneously themselves lot of it from Netflix Studios rather than being outsourced to which is a bit of a bit of a shift.

This is fantastic news of the British producers as well as other thing cold telephone the opportunity thing in the opportunities are incredible they've got 30 projects in development in the UK at the moment which is astonishing and if those projects getaway yeah, they'll be worth in millions of pounds to the industry here right some very brief news in brief now.

I'm going to give you a sentence each the BBC have made three Decisions of note this week and I want you.

Tell me why they made them at Susie the BBC have decided to ban unaccompanied children from TV recordings.

Why doesn't it down that say that they have to do more to look after children.

Obviously it's a no brainer.

I mean certainly so boring I working nobody is allowed to stand in a corridor on their own with a child at all.

It is not an option and I think that's absolutely correct and it should always have been like that.

We are there to protect children.

You know it's unfortunate that it came to the whole environment the buses to this place.

That is very obvious that we should be doing this but it's the right thing to do OK Matt Radio 2 have backtracked on the idea of replacing Bob shennan with another controller.

Why are basically to save the Coffin liquid or 200 grand from paying that person will save.

I think they do a good job.

I think in the future it put into the question about whether their networks to have control.

Should they have editors but if you look at BBC telly BBC Two hasn't got a controller but BBC three hats ok and Jake Peter Preston Road in the Observer this week at the BBC at finding it hard to fill the position of chair of the new board why because it's an enormous unrelenting high profile job with a very Meager salary and Meager salaries 100g.

I do it if they're interested Peterborough painted are fantastically bleak picture for the government on this issue and agreed with every single word of it and the government to make matters worse can't afford to make the same mistake the same method made of this channel 4 process.

There is just I'm out for our Media quiz this week.

It is entitled national record of achievement the media podcast has been handed the infamous burgundy folders for 3 media organisations over 38 will have no idea what I'm talking about an achievement you tell me who's folder.

This is buzzing with your name when.

The answer to Jaguar say Jake metal frame and Suzi you're saying the winner gets out of PE the loser gets double science here we go with achievement number 1 Awards 2016 journalist of the Year with your name Laura kuenssberg correct the BBC political correspondent Laura kuenssberg has been honoured at the British journalism awards.

What do you think was her secrets easy? I think she's very good at a job and has all the skills.

I think it's surely that's all she needs is not what lots of people commenting about what what what gender she is very sick as a great news factory on Twitter as well.

Thank you to Jake his achievement number to experience over 225 years in print journalism doesn't really know the answer the Observer correct the Observer is the world's oldest Sunday newspaper celebrate a milestone this week 220.

5 years in print journalism University Bute Jake I don't read the exhilarate OK finally achievement number 3 Achievements 2016 the first UK newspaper to make more money from its digital and print edition match match in October in the world more importantly the revenues to go with it might do load times actually matter do they make a difference that I think people special on mobile if you're out and about and you click on the link and something it's gonna half loading TT stick round off flick back most of the low time is all the crap that goes alongside ad networks that yourself that your data is being sold to other people in exchange for AutoeBid advertising and that's the crap that normally.

Delayed you pay to load that's why I had to be mellow tone down also think they are not leaning on all these crappy at networks, so they don't have to worry about it and they just a quick well.

There is no winner because you will go to point Canada visa best to use to get through the window.

Thank you very much.

Not give the gift of Life to This podcast go to the media podcast Ofcom / donate and take out of voluntary subscription how you can even buy one for you know one read the radio Times anymore.

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