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Read this: #64 - Will Fake News Be Our Downfall? - The Media Podcast with Olly Mann

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#64 - Will Fake News Be Our Downfall? - …



Hello and welcome to the media podcast I'm only man on today's show fake news.

Will it be hard down for a panel decided Facebook really hard to blame and what can be done about it David Walliams is to launch a new late night show on ITV but it seems the return of the news at when does Tom bradby show shifts around the schedule will back gamble payoff plus 3 on pickled the latest goings-on on teachable Netflix of radio whenever that means and the National Lottery following BBC Three online all that and your Media quiz it's all to come today's podcast and join me at the hospital club today or 3 count em three more wonderful Intrepid players of the media game.

They are to my right Faraz Osman Maggie Brown and Louise Ridley at Louise welcome back to the show now your surname remains the same your email address is different because when you were last on the show opera.

Sit special you were at huffpo.

You've now brexit in huffpo yourself and you no work for BuzzFeed how's that going? It's which took awhile for me to be able to say smoothly for the has a great job so far is the posh the post stuff the journalism member is brilliant everyone judge Louise's analysis throughout the show and break BuzzFeed accordingly for the journalistic.

Powers is back as well as

Fredwave skinshape law Holt what did these three obtuse names have in common? They are acts on the latest episode of four to the floor the excellent a dorinda lemonade Monday please I'm not down with the kids as you'd like to think that I wish I could keep up to the level that they did they send out but there's the Furious done now.

We've been doing a social series on Facebook actually called all-day breakfast if he's been a heck of a lot of fun social series.

Yes, we were the Channel 4 about how we can know about that brand we feel like because it's all sea music and it's a thing that resonates with the World online.

What can we do to kind of restart audience because that's when they to be there consuming that's all content and it's a younger audience on Stephanie to be where they are so we did wife think is Channel 4 First Facebook native show.

Well, I can any was that on Facebook live, it was on Facebook Live was going to be but need someone to explain to me what the point of Facebook line is properly.

It's on Facebook so you can watch it on Facebook all video on Facebook Facebook live now.

I don't know if that's the case Facebook video it wasn't lie because there's lots of obviously editorial concerns of which animal have I putting things live handcuffed in a bit more than other outlets are Maggie you are here, but you've also be on a certain other BBC based Media show this week on Wednesday I like to have sloppy seconds normally but you're a special lady tell us what you were discussing with reception on the panel discussing Channel 4 and the fact that it was still being kept in a form of limbo because all options appear still to be open about its future ownership and can structurally or even though.

Patient because even if you might possibly go to Birmingham so I was on the panel because I'm writing the II body of the history of Channel 4 she may know which one would 2017/2016 so it's still in research and writing stage ok quick question for you on your history of Channel 4 says you are the Channel 4 historian.

Do you think there was more of a change from launch of Channel 4 2007 or more of a changed since 2017 our advertising in the 1993 and once you have an advertising sales force within your company a lot changes including the rates of pay and the Dynamics the bonuses all the rest of it because the commission inside obviously has to keep up with the advertising side of the bonuses and everything that goes along with it.

So it was much more commercialized from that point onwards including all for a multi-channel and all that.

Bake-Off is actually something else the reason obviously Bake Off was bought is that channel 4 doesn't happy Brother anymore.

It's looking for scale.

It would have been extremely worried if they cover gone to ITV it doesn't really fit the channel for mould of either being out.

You know experimental new fresh or anything else, but what it does fit is the fact that it's a Robin Hood kind of Culture that they have to have programs which will pay for the programs that don't make money at least that's the model so that's how they don't justify doing it.

I think it's a very bad piece of PR4 them actually at this moment in time off when you guys fails.

Is it is it still on success? Is it still a win for Channel 4 because they neutralize the Threat of Bake Off fail remember Channel 4 95% is it is funded by advertising it doesn't have any in-house production.

It's not allowed to own rights anymore.

It doesn't have an international sales on so it's very very.

Lucas 9H think of it £9.50 out of every £10 basically has to come from advertising so from that point of view.

It's real opponent if you like in in in in the marketplace is ITV2 has to fight very hard to actually there's a very hard commercial core at the centre of Channel 4 and and so the advertising is it's life, but I don't think it will settle but what I do think it's that there wasn't anything wrong with the Bake Off that the BBC was delivering now their production company fell out of love with the BBC because of the way they were being paid and treated but it is unwise I would have thought to perhaps a annoying almost 16 million people who liked it.

Just the way it was and second day at this point in time.

It looks as if Channel 4 has sperm amount of cash that it can just call up to acquire a program which is purely a commercial decision, when it finds it quite hard apparently to find say £2000000 extra year for more older.

children's programming and content so that that's kind of a bit of a problem, but the big one is survival for Channel 4 with some blue chip Radio 4 in Dorset Media analysis of some real news, but we're going to move on to talk about the big story of the passport night fake news now because after President-elect Donald Trump still feels weird to say it and his victory many commentators have sought to blame publishers like Facebook for not screening their content more accurately is that their fault or should read as be more sensitive to where the news comes from Louise BuzzFeed been doing some research in this area campaigning you might almost say collection haven't been following explain what we mean by fake news exactly that sounds really get your head round it because it's not news that accidentally incorrect which we must have it John

Do you sometimes it's not satirical news? It's misunderstood it is fake news that has been written off stand for a purpose of distilled people's political views or to get me all very excited and I completely false huge flames Debussy candida great analysis could have really comparing how many shares on Facebook the top 20 fleet.

Can you stories during the last 3 months of the election were how many says they got as compared to the top 20 real news stories and affect one's got more they got 8 million shares and 3 months.

Where is the real ones only got 7 million the top fake stories.

I think was something like the Pope endorsing Donald Trump in a human liver has made up and then I'm Hillary Clinton funding Isis or something ridiculous.

You know he's not said a joke stories or under the radar.

These are huge to do the global affairs and millions of people shared them and you'll have to see in believe them because not that many people would share it if you can never said it's completely rubbished the thing that's really scary in my view.

Is there a whole sites dedicated to doing this and what to look for them advertised it.

Sometimes advertising but also with political intent I would say I can't claim to know all about all of this fake sites at all, but I'm in Russia and China but they're really really concerning as they obviously Trump is now president elect as discussed the vast majority of these top shed fake stories wipro Donald Trump or anti Hillary Clinton be concerned.

That's come up which is why this is now on the agenda is did that shape the election the amazing thing is that Mark Zuckerberg initially at least said that's a crazy idea of course not to think about it for more than 10 minutes.

I think he's now as discussed Facebook is looking into this officially of course it would have said the election Precinct how many people use Facebook and how your entire narrative is framed by it I think it's much bigger than Facebook I think it's about Facebook need to keep an eye on this.

It's about who on Earth these sites doing this fake news that mean that's the real real problem and you have to see in the bitter the amount of fake news in Crayford is going up and if you do Facebook changing its algorithms, but it's also this is being done a lot more people realise they can do this and it creates about the paw.

Thankfully now becoming more conscious of this and important thing for us is journalist in terms of investigating a sense of transparency is making people aware how important it is that what you read is correct in Winters of always have to distinguish, what they think is correct and they've always been newspapers and magazines that deliberately make up stories and fabricate lies.

I mean has been the weekly world news on the Sunday Sport and whatever people you know people believe that then endorsing things you can't actually get internet is not governed in this way, it should be a legal framework to deal with this just in the I was lunch yesterday with the chief executive of thumb ITN and this was very much part of the kind of discussion and one of the things that we were kind of agreed in away with such saving five or six years ago people really thought that News programmes edited news.

Programmes are on the way out and I know that there was a big debate for example Channel 4 in a what should be the kind of agenda of Channel 4 news, which is always been an down and long-form.

It's survived as it NM or less in it as it had been before and of course now.

Everybody is feeling kind of maybe the moment has come because if you have a very clear brand if your trusted if you have to obey impartiality rules which the public service broadcasters have to news programs and not on Sky News.

As well this actually met in the end.

Not just speak or if you like social social good it may also actually be a commercial good or reputational good because it makes the role of respected organisations not just important to that she makes them much more valuable.

So there is a view that people will start to turn to the more trusted sources.

People who just see website is clearly cobble together is God a man story on it, but believe it all those people for has just stupid or are they Facebook responsibility so they should be look at that it's not about people seeing site is about people seeing Facebook they go on Facebook and they see those headlines and is headlines sit next to BBC headlines guardian headlines BuzzFeed headlines and and they just assume that if the BBC In The Bus video providing using a space in why isn't the Denver guardian an unpaid official new source because you know why he did need to think that when you're saying it's not about people being stupid is about media literacy and actually I think it's unfair to suggest that like you know they got it is UK paper.

It's only just started making huge ground in the US and I would argue that 510 years ago probably unknown in the US and now the same as cumming happening the other way round we know that the Boston globe as media litre people the Boston globe is a great paper is Rhys does really interesting stuff has really good articles in it, but I shouldn't expect my friends or people that don't work in a medium to industry to know the difference between the Denver guardian and the Boston globe.

And that's where the manipulation is coming in it's it is this is the media story and it is only things that is it going to break out of this bubble of these podcasts and this this review and and and the media analysis has got in London and make and traction like Levinson did can I did he's in the shadow of lever so we have a multi-million-pound enquiry into effectively the same sort of thing in mainstream newspapers and you're asking O'Leary to do in Hackney the law to to legislate against this is just impossible.

This is an international thing that is shared by individuals and a friend of mine was asking about why there's any difference when the Daily Express for the Daily Mail the Sunday Sport as you say prince Ali on their front page the difference it.

Is is there are laws that do protect that you can argue with lead to be stronger or weaker or you know you need to have this press Regulation Authority or another one, but if you have you take all those laws away and that regulation away then of course.

I think it's going to get share the most is the opinion.

It's gonna back out the conspiracy theory that you've already got in your head.

It's far more seductive is Farmer

Interesting and it's a lot easier for anybody to just write something can put up on Facebook and go what this is news.

I mean maybe 10 years ago when people are really excited about the internet under I remember this debate very well, because I would obviously I'm a mother and these things can send me but there were people who are arguing really against on with no controls on the internet and gradually we've seen a growing concern about grooming of underage in all of those things that have happened and people asking for protections and four buttons and fun and whether there police still not but there's definitely been a shift away from just let it happen even if you can't read do that much about it, so I don't know where this is going to end, but I think it's it is rather frightening development, but I'm sure that there's going to have to be as you rightly say a huge amount of Media literacy a warning people in somewhere that this kind of thing is going to pollute both of them.

Chrissy actually in the end of the day and undermined if you like our concepts of of almost we know what is right and what's wrong with the government can do is not a huge amount that Facebook can do the Genie in the bottle blacklist sites Louise where do you stand on that wanted to go to China which should allow at 27 Ardingly third party people who work with it to sort of makes so is less visible on Facebook and that sort of the opposite extreme of the fat that we've got this fake news because there's no control but obviously of a lot of us in Britain would say well that doesn't sound very good that the government can decide to hide certain stories and it's way that balances.

It's a very very difficult area because of how huge and Powerful Facebook is already we didn't make these rules to start with now in this position of yes son control might be good.

We might say perhaps hide fake stories, but who is it? Is it someone within Facebook is deciding I don't like that or I checked all those facts and we won't know because Facebook is.

As a company website company, so it's it who is the judge of that and that is horribly complicated than that going to be the next big thing who decides what shouldn't be saying to people they look they made to look as if they are entirely respectable.

I mean this is the interesting thing about it so many people who cannot you would think necessarily are completely say it literate in English example.

Didn't seem to put spelling mistakes and that you can spot me some really big boobies.

Can I take it on global ESO be on their their kind of trump stuff? We had a brilliant future and that Myanmar so in 2014 only 1% of people in my am I have the internet so suddenly.

They got the internet.

I got Donald Trump and they got fake news within two years suddenly has got me into there's an explosion and they are going through all of this because there's a massive fake news on slow and then it's still exactly same stuff because the same people are trying to target them with all these stories and have some brilliant quite that I've I've got Notre Dam which is that someone who just got on the internet just thought her first ever phone that has the internet.

Said that's what the internet is it takes people who say crazy things and it makes them famous so they never heard of Donald Trump and Along Came Donald Trump in the last 6 months they heard of him and they just said is crazy things everywhere and and reading that and seeing how it must be so come onto the internet now with all this is really really enlightening another have you heard of Donald Trump listen to talk about a story from ITN now they are to close their archive ITN source in a new deal that means almost 1 million clips from over 60 years and they only gonna be available through Getty Images smart deal for itni.

Did you think what I think? It's running an archive? I think it's very expensive you have to have people to hunt down what you want.

You can't just automate everything and if that yes, I was discussing this again yesterday and I the thing is really that they've handed over the marketing and sales it doesn't mean that they don't archive things anymore because obviously they have a growing and added to every moment of the day almost archive but what?

They're doing is saying that this body has more expertise that they can act as society agent and other people have agency arrangements and outsource things so I don't think it's actually too much of a weihrauch.

Would ITN is trying to do is in a sense of bit like other broadcast it's trying to actually build up.

Its content ownership business is trying to add-in program making which is playing twit strength said it might be current affairs it might even eventually be scripted drama.

So that's where they see the margins growing problem.

Tell me a really dirty.

That's a problem is I don't know it's the outsider know what the BBC does with some archive but on the other hand remember get he is being run by dawn Airey latest channel 5 and imagine that ITN must have had a you know a good reason to think that they would be treated in in in a fair and reasonable way.

Saxophones fire up B carpool karaoke because we're gonna talk about late night telly now iTV I'll bring over the format of the stripped late night 5-day.

We chat show to our Shores is never work before 4 as is it going to work this time? I'm at work now because they don't work do they use US dollar shows and the closest we got in our lifetimes as V Graham Norton which was jolly entertaining and still run out of steam after 3 years the idea behind.

This is that they'll have a different celebrity hosts running it for a week each for David Walliams is week 1 give me a celebrity think that we look over the pond and see those chosen almost is a little bit of confusion or envy about whether or not what you know.

Why is it that they should have so much social traction having after keeping to this email.

Do they do so well online now when you know you're ready to come to keep out be having to get all my jimmies mixed up now, but beard Jimmy kimmel's Halloween specials or Jimmy Fallon Yara pieces with lavender guys the roots and and I think that they clearly.

People of of having a noise beyond the schedule programming which I think is a key essential part of have any commission nowadays and if they're able to cut a crack that so it's not just about what David Walliams is going to do at 10 p.m.

But it's also what's gonna happen post and I'll be going to talk about in the same way that when John Oliver has a run every 1 chairs on Facebook afterwards and it come back that content from their that's what they show needs to do it is the right time for that if you're always going to come have a look back in Canada with this is just trying to do the same thing that Letterman and and Leno did what 20 years ago then? Yeah, I'm not sure that is going to work, but I don't think that will be showing Jay Leno is a bit of a Spectre here.

Isn't it because NBC brand his show when he left this night show first time round at 10 p.m.

And it was a massive flop.

Why are they putting it at 10 p.m.

Maggie Kevin lygo smoothing the News at Ten for this will be a late night chat so should be late night like in the States 11:30 have to get up in the morning go to work.

What you on YouTube that you can get low ratings she wants people watching mainstream television and watching it.

It's a Commercials there's nobody ugly.

I I will be interested to see whether David Walliams for example has got the the personal want some how to carry this kind of sure I mean he's he's he's great at what he does which is the sort of scripted would just see weather in a heat he tries to be a great many things including a children's author will I would have thought he doesn't actually have that kind of rapport with people but I may be totally wrong the really interesting thing is actually that the course the news is going to be moved to 10:30 and it isn't going to be clearly a show that's going to run around the year and they do sometimes you move the news if for example.

There's a big football match or something like that, but to move it for that length of time does raise a few alarm bells and of course if it were to work.

And you clearly have decided it's not going to work but if it were to work then it would definitely be a challenge to the news moving moving from 10 and we're back in that old experiment which happened at 16 years ago and was then reversed and 10 years ago 8 years ago never it was and you know you've got your back into that kind of thing I I I I don't know it's all about I basically ITV needs to raise its it's installed in sure it's got to do that.

That's why it's got another edition of Coronation Street coming in 6 Editions week.

It's got to get it's got to start building work is aimed at people like me roughly in my demographic with my interests and I definitely want to watch five nights a week and I panicked and not that didn't quite work either but I do think that I don't think this is a case of isn't showing to work that that's on my side for me to secondary question.

The primary question and he said something is always going on throughout history of the pricing in a modern television is can you provide an alternative to 10 news and I think ITV try that in the past and failed and well I buy to be had the 10 news originally but ever since the BBC have done the News at Ten or whatever they call it the 10 news the only thing that could compete with the 10:00 news on BBC is the News at Ten on ITV in that feels like it's not clarity.

It doesn't feel like it's choice.

It doesn't feel like what ITV should be doing so I kind of applaud them for going you what let's give an alternative because reality is I mean.

I don't understand but I would argue by times out of ten the headlines are exactly the same on the BBC that they are on ITV so let's provide something different from there and if they get it right then it means that people will watch more news as a result stretchy ITV news program has changed into a mould discursive programme with Tom Bradbury in out with with him having a more informal kind of to it one two one day with the correspondence.

It isn't exactly the same anymore.

That's why they can atleast say actually that I honestly think the case that the ratings have gone up by about 6% so far this year over 10 months of the new format but having said all of that all News programmes up a bit because I look at the new so I don't I don't know I don't what I think it is obvious those that 10:00 is a good slot for sale Channel 4 running catastrophe or fresh meat for those sorts of pregnant.

It's wide open to out of Fargo one of these sort of war and edgy short pieces.

That's been very good for Channel 4 ITV can't really go there because it's still a big mass audience so they have to find another way.

It's an experiment really and of course Kevin lygo if he'd have been there a year this is one of his move.

This is the new director of television he took over from the more conventional maybe Peter Fincham so we'll see potential by definition is the possibility of achieving more in the fast-paced world of digital advertising.

Oracle data cloud has built it's like I say on finding the signal through the noise on unlocking potential we bring together data and technology to help you better understand your audience where to best engage them and how to measure a tool to realise true potential Oracle data cloud where better outcomes begin visit Oracle data cloud don't come to learn more right has been almost 6000 minutes of Media podcast time since we cover the BBC so let's get stuck into all the news that's come out of The Corporation this week first up Charlotte Moore the BBC's first director of content has begun the latest shake ups to BBC TV commissioning Maggie what's changing saying that there's going to be people sort of cooperating really it seems to me across genres which time is quite interesting one of the other.

Who switched again? I think probably is quite sensible two-and-a-half years ago the BBC started this big arts push with music for suet with Radio 2 and local television in it doing things together and that's been brought together and then television and radio put under the great Empire that's growing James Purnell who's the kindest maybe director-general in waiting but me about that they've they've given that brief which I don't think it's been running that smoothly to one of the most brilliant condition as in television Jan younghusband who used to be at Channel 4 and it all the wonderful kind of the operas and bigger projects and was one of the really interesting commissioners and greatly revered throughout the the Arts and music centre ballet.

You know mate.

She she goes across everything and she's been given that brief.

So when I saw it as always dino moving the deck chairs around and there's all the cuts going on but when I saw that I thought this is really interesting the BBC's giving a real Pashto to Music and Arts which I think it's good James midpoint as he's now the BBC's head of religious affairs programming as well as everything else presumably coordinates in cleaning staff to they said this is boosting the significance of religious affairs by giving it's such a top.

Dog is not is it just adding it to his smorgasbord of minimising its public service broadcaster and they need to make sure that they get it right because if they don't get it right no one else's and now we're just chatting about how I kill armored was it was taking on that Rowland and actually his biggest commission will Songs of Praise which isn't a music shows so you know there may be some some connection in there along the way but I think that's what's what's interesting about this is and Matt may hold me in his producing this amount may how we should a fire later on the year but one of the predictions are made.

Last year is it a BBC Two going to be the way from channels and move towards actually being brands like arts music for children's etc and this seems to be a movement towards that strategy it kind of makes sense, but there's always two me the bigger? Is not the case that he's only looking after religion ethics and Music and Arts but he's also can be looking after him radio and television and different types of content under that banner.

I still think that's an open debate about do you commission around the content that you make from Jean respective or from a actual a content respectively at radio TV or online current director general Tony Hall has been talking at the voice of the listener and viewer conference at 4 as he announced the Netflix of radio and that must of surprise Netflix can you explain what it means won't mind sending of it? Is that he was wants to open up the huge library moved to archive earlier.

I mean the only radio.

I kind of the BBC must have this must be fascinating and it seems to be a smart little moved to open up that whole life.

I'm interested to know how successful BBC store has been and it feels like the BBC keeps making baby steps into the into that space of getting their content online and and make it successful as what the iPlayer has been successful because of the content is happened the week before that.

I think it is really important that the BBC makes success of its heritage content along the way and it seems like a really smart move and and on top of that.

I don't think that there is an audio version of this that exist so I'm actually having the ability to have that back at on the library.

I think it's something that audiences and enter team is going to love that she iPlayer radio does have quite a lot of back catalogue available it seems like they've already made this content members of the only thing They're Changing by calling on Netflix of aliens introducing.

How did they might charge charging people for it possibly but also I mean I like I said I don't know but it's it's things always from a sandwich pieces of light will we just had this election which has been horrific a terrifying and everything that you possibly hate about politics all in one go but it can open up the appetite of what were the Bill Clinton

Pizza that happened at the time when I want to hate you on here those again.

I want to hear what they put you know they're the presidential debate when you put how many people going to listen to Bill Clinton presidential debate is taking on the opportunity to to look at analysis as it was back then which we love doing as consumers and even the media podcast catalogue available download episodes in two years ago been producing.

Can I do if I said you know if we're talking about the fake new Salomon remember to this has been only only recently that the kind of expansion of the world service and two interviews and indeed enhancement to the English language service the BBC has been sent on her a kind of weird mission.

It was having to cut back and pay for everything five years ago now everybody realises the value of a proper information, so it's all kind of been reversed and giving a lot more money.

I mean sometimes makes you weak and sinks.

Tell the government just sort of really just smacked around with the BBC on the society.

Just think of all those very count competent people who was showing the door now presumably they're going to have to rehire lots of other language experts too much more complex finance structure where they might be being funded by the government and they might be being for the bike licence permit services Simon favour of them make sense either is why the government want to reinvest in the world service startup of revenue services 300 million extra funding that the government's putting in that they noted in what they're doing is the idea of focusing on slow news which I thought was a great concept that I hadn't really heard articulator like that which is the idea of explaining the wyandotte sensory analysis and deep stuff and that is if they do that in a live up to that promise.

That is all you need in a time of figures.

That's really important.

It's about and tearing down and everything I do with his long for me.

Let's go deep into this and then you're not definitely not doing anything new user actually giving people that moorfoot for reading people are craving that a bit now thing in the world service average age of listener is much younger than that of radio 405 live as I understand it which is quite interesting think some of the service which may be young professionals and things like that who want to actually you know learn about what's going on.

So I'm all I know is that it seems to me like a quick reverse the things and I but I bet you BBC monitoring which they've been cutting back.

That's more of obviously official government services using it the cabinet office you name it I bet you if it in in in in a few months time will send me find a realise all my god.

We've cut back on monitoring and we're not finding out enough about whether it is and then start reinvesting and having bus to BBC out of its lovely country house in Caversham so that's how it goes talking about cash flow.

To be releasing those big money balls on a Saturday night anymore on BBC One The National Lottery is going online only yes, it's crashing use for as the big question everyone is asking is what is going to happen to Nick Knowles and Gaby Roslin contract to put it online only wow.

That's a that's a turn-up for the books as he is the future to future watching balls dropping her but yeah on online.

Is it right that no one wants the same as Saturday night and watch ball drop anymore Gambler.

I don't watch the programs and so I'm I put you can see why it has to BBC will always get these contracts because the lottery can do deals with ITV or it can they advertised it? You're so the only place it really can't get on in any other way, is is on the BBC it cuts the cost of making their shares as well remember if it's just online.

It's going to be sunny.

They have two will be complied Rick Astley got to get back right but apart from that and you know it harmful if you're out at night you can find out can't you know what the numbers on the lottery money, but it always seems rather like a space filler when if you have a lovely to get you this one no the numbers you can get back on the phone.

Why would you why do you need to watch them pulling out want to see Jamelia singer way through any singles darts going to remember that when this first happened.

We first had the lottery come on our screens every watch that I bought a ticket or not because I DAB you were watching literally watching someone being made a multi-millionaire even if you were there are not was actually quite a decent format of the time and you know you remember that there was any satistics of this balls only been seeing that one to help you didn't see that was actually watchable and was felt like it had real real value to it credibility as well.

You know if you know the lottery numbers.

You just want to know what the numbers are based on a ticket that you bought so people check it online anyway and they continue to make entertainment for Maps around the lottery and you always happy popular and actually game shows in the saving grace of American telly in the last year of all the big networks there.

Do you think we'll see if you were game shows now the lottery components been taken away on a Saturday night will still people want to be watching Nick Knowles how many people at the main television channels are actually desperate to find fresh entertainment formats that is a Saturday night in particular is really at the front of everything.

That's what they want to do and then they want to find factual formats that they can go on churning out for a day in F2 there's all of that.

I don't know because also the kind of participation you can use them all sorts of ways big entertainment for matter what everybody is after the lottery is the ultimate interactive format right everyone buy a ticket for £1 and everyone is a contestant to Helmsley Stacy going to play.

On the BBC there's this is weird colour separation of that's the lottery now that picks been done now and it's still game show In if there was actually an opportunity to embed those two things together where you're watching someone randomly pick a number as part of the game show that they're watching and it has an impact of you as being a ticket holder back home.

That's a format that you think will actually work and and would be properly attractive in exciting, but it can't happen on that sells lottery rapatrier guilty have you forgotten singing Dancing toe tapping Saturday night entertainment talking of quizzes.

It's time for our Media quiz this week is entitled all change, please.

What's the voice of Olly Mann has been utilised across many high-end adverts and nature documentaries.

Just contact my agent it has yet to be the voice of any major rail network audit corporate video this year actually it was for a company that sold you seats on the channel anyway.

This is me.

In a moment I will perform 3 National Rail announcements, but here's the twist hidden within my apology for a late running service will be a very subtle reference to a media story from the past week very subtle your task is to decipher the message and tell me the media story buried within buzzing with your name the winner gets the Grand Tour the loser is still Open All Hours here we go through as it's the renaming of BBC western House to BBC Wogan house, correct points relating thereto fitting tribute to the great man Maggie surely.

is announcement number to Louise glamour Magazine dropping at small forward devices tiny magazine is very exciting you put it in your handbag if it was such a size smaller than the other nifty tricks of Wight Bay stopping a picture of a paper quality they want to make it appear more luxurious Kursi which is a pretty understandable moving in the magazine market because he's trying to be more like competitors like l Witcher a bit more sort of waiting and Glos

Biggest it's moving in that direction as opposed to cosmopolitan, which you reference in a wonderful train announcement which I think is Sid of state where it is hasn't changed its with that is classed as price quite a lot really advertising medium and that he may be able to figure for a page in book that just been my my mind away.

It's almost equivalent to kind of like the 3-minute advert some John Lewis second can the can borrow some money so I think that that's something people do like a sort of feeling of a treat when they pick up a magazine to let you know you've talked about going back to long-form well.

That's actually what Cosmo doing their running bigger article and a bonus point can any of you name what Cosmo called glamours handbag edition something really didn't like it, but I don't know if he's your clothes pick me a number three.

A rise in ticket prices which will against all market Theory still lead to a rise in sales buzzing with your name if you know the answer my isn't it very new picture of increase sales despite a 10 pence price hikes a cosmopolitan / the prices and do well the eye cost more in does well.

Not so has the Observer a bit 2% I think it's partly to the fact people want to read about the world around them news, so we will have slight revival.

I don't know I don't know whether it will work or not but some interesting cheap so remember that it's easy to read.

It's got really good layout that's very very clear a symbol kind of almost like for an app generation only thing but it is still cheap so did Hitler goods goods but definitely cuz I remember a time when the Guardian was actually.

Experimenting stations with a tabloid version of itself just handing them out and they were meant to be taste as I remember thinking.

Why don't they do this with the main paper in a do a cut-down version and do a g really and that it never happened, so yeah well, it's nice to know some good news as a former founder of the Indy independent rather.

It's good to know there's a bit of good news somewhere nice there a bit behind the curtain stuff at the Guardian just in the last minute of a shower as well, isn't it? But it does mean Maggie despite you coming on with the right answer that we have a draw no clear winner apart from Johnston Press this week, that is it for a show today my thanks to Maggie Brown Louise Ridley and Faraz Osman thanks Sue to these wonderful people who continue to support the show through their brand new voluntari subscriptions.

They are wrecks or Chris Ashton and Saul Fearnley join them keep us on the air go to the media podcast opcom / donate I can only man the producer hill and the media podcast.

appm production till next time

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