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Read this: #63 - Media Planning in an Uncertain World - The Media Podcast with Olly Mann

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#63 - Media Planning in an Uncertain Wor…



Before we start a big thank you to media Masters the podcast where you'll hear one-to-one interviews with creatives and media exact and huge.

Thank you to you our voluntary subscribers who pitch in a few quid a month to help us make even better even more ambitious programs join us at the media podcast dot.com / donate hello and welcome to the media podcast I'm only man on today's show first brexit then President Trump with so much uncertainty in the financial market.

How will that impact our industry are panel confidently waves into the known unknowns also on the program is news that pressure groups and women Easter clothes at the end of the year founder Maria Williams talks to us about its Legacy and what still needs to change + the BBC stars that are up in Arms at the rise of the radio in these Channel 5 records its best-ever year-on-year profits and the media quiz puts us all through our paces.

That's all to come today's Media podcast.

And joining me at the hospital club today or a trio of Media Buffs a buffoonery of guests.

I think that's collect them.

They are radio exec Maria Williams TalkBack MD Leon Wilson and broadcast consultant Paul Robinson hello.

Hello just not sure about the funeral, but it's a work for now.

I suppose I just realised that when we have Leon and pull together on the show you're the only duo we have when you both got sandwich chains and after you list together.

Yes, you can be the feeling very good Lord I go to a to Sandwich gentleman living in a post-truth well who knows before we get into the impact of trump and brexit whatever else is going to ask around the world is let's talk about the election night coverage itself kind of a big deal.

I found myself drawn to CNN I was watching BBC but I just had to see it.

American accent and kck exception call herself that what does a cat EK with that was enough for me? What about you? Yeah? I was seeing in the BBC I try watching ITV which I thought was really dull.

I'm here just no energy they're told somehow CNN had just more attack a lot more opinionated to I was I quite liked actually but you know what I went to bed 1 and thinking.

Oh, it's all going to be fine and they call a brexit woke up at 5 and daughter.

It's all gone horribly wrong.

What did you watch? I do anything I was writing scripts at 3 in the morning and I could watch it and then I went to bed in the morning and then I am look was on online in bed thinking I'll just check for going to bed make sure it's all going well, then.

I thought it was like half to hang on.

He's behind in Virginia oh, no.

This is not I'll try it was between the Guardian what Live login the BBC and it was actually hard to get a true picture of what is going on.

I thought online at least it was because there's lot of it was confusing around that time in the morning to in Walsall

Changing and I felt like what I thought was that was wanted it to be close contest as it suited their needs as broadcasters or is website it was on a deliberately sometimes hard workouts going on because that confusion draws you in and you can then stuck reading millions different sort of the seeds and stuff it with felt to me in the UK this is hard to get a true picture was going on until quite late in the day and landing stalwarts in staying up late.

I've learnt my lesson from brexit.

I went round somebody's house and we stayed at what it was so miserable.

I basically vowed never to do that again.

So I looked at the time codes.

Do you know trying to work out when the results of come through and decided I was going to go to bed early and get up early.

So that's what I did so I know what you know.

I was really genuinely fearful so when I woke up and sat down and I listen to everything on 5 Live didn't go near Radio 4 thought 5ly did amazing job.

Obviously I'm by the time.

I got to them.

They were covering it nonstop.

I heard Trumps sort of celebration speech on that and also I got an awful.

Lot of News Online which I've never done before and I wasn't on my laptop.

I was just on my phone so Facebook I saw trump live you know accepting presidential nomination.

I was getting guardian alerts rosegal Telegraph alerts through it was a very different experience for me and made me realise just how promiscuous a media consumer.

I have become can we all agree that it was a virtually what's a fakir Edwards oghene, Andrew Neil is a better choice to front any like you as he seems like a lovely man, but he's so glad call.

Yeah.

I mean I just got that in the morning.

I switched on for 200 mil for a bit and I've you know straight off.

I have to say you know I was coming in at the end of a very long night.

So it might be that all their kind of Enthusiasm energy was spent by then, but it just felt flat it felt a bit complacent.

I talk to my son who were there.

If I can get into my front room, was it was full of 1920 year old politics students O'Connor hugging the television and they were raving about CNN and I think it's really hard so I think it's how you wouldn't believe it.

Was you but I'm really hard however much Trump is going to impact on our lives in the UK and he will for sure it's very hard to replicate that will be absolutely Horsham that you feel if you're in that country way to see you not just your kind of the prime minister Abbott your head is Donald Trump might be one reason why the CNN coverage was more because it's a lovely morning Britain Piers Morgan has finally found his trump says he loves this story dizzy Christmas special.

He dumped me the dodgem cars when is report on the son of Radio 1 there's no forgiving is going to go down that way to print covered it in the States then because I guess the biggest story there is probably newsweek printing 100 something thousand.

Copy of the magazine is not the printing is a problem that they sold but the course they had to go back to do both put them on sale is hilarious hilarious.

It is very interesting you know especially for those of us working in the podcast world where you put something up if there's a problem you take it down you put it up you know their huge flexibility.

It's really taking the pressure off to the some extent it kind of reminded me just how difficult it is if you're in print Media trying to navigate that a weekly or monthly publication.

No.

This was clearly a very large mistake not the first time.

It's happened in the US of course.

I can imagine having that on a toilet wall right there to make the point about the podcast world versus the print world in a way because you know for newsweek.

That's their big souvenir issue.

This is a collectible isn't it? But it's got to be in by by necessity full of stuff that was written before it happened.

You're actually for posterity at a copy of The Spectator Coffee House podcast probably more accurate and what people are actually thinking it's really hard for print now.

Isn't it? I think it's incredibly hard and also just in terms of margins.

You know it's really hard for print to make money anymore the idea that you have to basically do two versions not just the cost of the actual printing it but all that journalism.

You know which has to be really well research really well, Thought through I mean you know that's that's a huge amount of money to try and raccoon for sweating staff in a new people in blood.

Harding crazy hours, so I was actually ugly at web summit in Lisburn when this news broke and they're a lot of Americans there as you might expect so it's quite interesting with canvassing the real reactions of people who work in the digital media industry about how they think it might impact their life because a lot of them were Hillary Clinton supporters were actually very big on.

It's probably been Bernie Sanders supporters and they all came from sort of BG little startups kind of companies that sponsor podcast actually but really if you asking how do you think this is going to affect their industry? They mostly said well.

He's going to cut taxes and actually we're going to see a lot of investment in America now.

So what do you think is going to happen in the UK to our Media industry as a result of not just trump, but brexit as well because we've seen ITV release and figures this week, but suggest their cutting staff and projects as a result of kind of uncertainty all about uncertainty about uncertainty than the actual decisions all the policies of the weather becomes the person in power at least with the US presidential election.

Now have trump and his Instincts seeing how the markets absolutely plummeted at the prospect of trump winning and then he won and then the markets came back and in fact lincy exceeded and made of all of their games and went on further now people are seeing it is a sub glass is half-full Trump as opposed to glass half empty so I think it's fries the US is concerned at least we know where we are.

We don't quite know what his policies are but he's probably going to be anti bureaucracy pro business and that probably be good for the business size brexit concerned is completely unknown and you know uncertainties the worst thing in there at the moment the markets are reacting nervously.

I'm investors are not not making decisions.

They just delay in making decisions and so has resulted in a businesses are going to cut also important to say that some people will use this as an opportunity to cut through a no blame it on brexit or blame it on the election when they would run the anyway, but you know people will also take early action just in case and so they can't because they think bad times might come in.

They do come I'll be prepared now rather than waiting to face it went happens when you run in Hindi Leone but it's owned by a massive company those big international companies.

I wonder where that leek and bacon.

I think well.

We've got a government now in the US which is essentially encouraging Enterprise in his going to create situations may we hate you and we can find places when we pay less tax than they could try make it less bureaucratic to be an international organisation is there a good side to this group all very much to and come please excuse ITV I think they're 25 million pounds of couple announce the brexit that was well.

That's plan well before brexit happen, but I did been good thing will take identity trump will massively factors if I'm honest I don't think I think we pay fastest engine to American situation.

No one country out of 250.

We we shouldn't be so obsessed with Alexa is not our election.

We never used to be 20 years ago when I don't know why was also tested it now.

It will happen in 2000 with Gore and bush and I don't understand it because of brexit.

I don't think you're having big impact.

Did they really?

Intermediate I don't go I can't see the complete my company I work for 3 months.

I don't I don't Gonna Leave the UK I do whatever happens ill stay here.

That's the way she was committed to it.

I don't think you know it's actually making a big as in fact as many people think it has had a lot of just using as excuse but if that means less advertising revenue is probably because they were a year ago.

I think that's pop pop the pig hear you excited down to us all 5 1/2 million viewers.

That's because it was 2 of million down last year that in general ITV's much softer than was I think they're saying 7% lower ab ad spend in the final quarter.

I think that's as much to do with that that they're at the Vue in because Adele is kind of international sales details as well like apparently no one made a version of Hell's Kitchen this year which means they've lost 50 million or something cos you've done very successfully is move the business away from being highly dependent bademeister dependent advertising to being only about half depending advertising rest coming from production and is a very good.

Robert creating international formats and selling shows abroad, but it does mean of course if if overseas sales don't happen with formats don't happen that will impact their their revenue so those two things coming together and not ideal at the moment.

ITV is Rowsley protected against tonight and advertising downturn, but that's the prom with advertising advertising is very sensitive to changes you know compared to sky free sample subscription model Skies rock-solid no impact on Sky whatsoever no impact on the BBC the licence with hasn't changed if you are advertising funded.

You are going to suffer the winds Of Change and that means actually Maria all those websites.

You were talking about visiting might start putting up a walls, although.

I still think out in the world of podcasting.

There is a democracy about content that it would be very hard to undo and Butler guardian Telegraph Hill new website accounts that sang give us money.

I don't go on the times.

I subscribe to the Guardian actually because I found out stopping buying a paper a physical paper but I really wanted to support their journalism because I think without that you know.

We might not have MP expenses exposed WikiLeaks all those kind of things.

I think journalism is still crucial and I am happy to pay for that, but yeah, it's just really annoying when you want to read about and it pops up and those decisions the people make about subscription models.

I think I usually made on a much more long-term basis.

What do I want to support rather than can I buy this thing but can I just ask liane a question cos you working in the UK but for European companies.

Are you feeling the the kind of risk that post brexit big European companies like yours might suddenly decide to pick you up and drop you in Dusseldorf not really form honest.

I think that was of us up in the week afterwards.

There was lot of love.

You no pass for Speed form within the company and people going to meetings and it seems to me every sort of just realise is not going to make that much difference.

Wherever you know even if it is a hard brexit.

I don't think I actually affect things as much as we might business lease.

Don't let things that much you know I think it will be it will be business as usual.

It was a week of extreme.

Panic yeah, you are such a European company, but it seems to me what I can clean the actually it did plan is Mavis to carry on as it was before Willow Keith Lemon parachuted into Dusseldorf would be a cracchiolo the surrounding brexit brexit days will be no next year.

I think N17 road trip Gino Teviot light known about that as ITV2 version of Debian on that point when people feel do you know and ok? Maybe it's only the 50% of people who wouldn't vote for trump if they have the vote in this country, but when those people feel do you know they feel like everywhere? They turn is bad news.

They want cheering up don't make could that be good news, decommissioning actually good news for like late night model of rice on us chat on chat shows yeah.

I think this is this gives them for years worth of material which they must be loving it to some level is a weird thing that you know the people that sort of.

You want I'm actually looking for benefit from this with some people escaping the case of last 10 years as an entertainer certainly the rise of the box sets of you know world.

I think that's a little bit reaction to the other what to say to the world so but I don't think it will have to be the same as it's been for the last 10 years really one story to be live years unpleasantness is Channel 5 who recorded 2 years of back-to-back profits that is the first time the terrestrial broadcaster has done so Paul have they done this started with northern shell whatever you think of Northern and shell.

They did actually start refined costs and got the business about a shape cost wise they didn't really invest on the programme side and didn't do a great deal on the top line on the revenue the smart thing Channel 5 D it was a use Sky Media is there a sales agency and what sky Media down is held rates and managed to increase the amount of fluid sold to increase their revenue quite significantly top lines up by 20% profit up by baseball.

Says that you know they are leveraging their their fixed assets based better.

They've improve the schedule its approach to continue improving and you know that will continue now they've also got the leverage of viacom of course and and the cross promotional muscle and the buying power of viacom so that will help them to acquire better programs more cheaply better advertising sales costs under control now business as well run, but it's also important that they doing original programming because they are importing a lot of stuff of viacom and icons of the channel brand see that co-producing things by group and will come today to fund the program in return for some of preferential advertising rates on the channel, so I didn't more than I think double in that money spent group.

Am I from Channel 5 shows that pay for their shows as they get a lot of percentage of 3 that are not actually because I have to wear good rising rates and but they don't pay an awful.

Lot of their programs a Wi-Fi you know and have an issue which other fibres that they still.

Where's down but the money for making sure they have very reason it up some of their budgets a lip sync battle was quite a bit for them and that was actually quite high budget show when I had me some Ben Flower about that 6 weeks ago and he spent most of the meeting moana.

How much is spent on that it was it was seen as a good names on it.

So Solid 2 million viewers in the days before I came in either you do that new cut costs either by paying less or by taking Advertiser funded programming or you massively invest and spend a lot of money on content to drive at the audience network drive at the advertising revenue they've gone for the former model.

It's worked and Fogle Lives in the Wild cold is his Big Brother

But they've grown just really matter does it mean they've they've got lot of hours with big brother and his brothers incredibly efficient in terms of number of hours of content of them money you spend and the the ratings have been very strong, so I don't understand you should with that they've done very well with Big Brother it's ok.

It was a great bang for Channel 4 for a long time and channel 4 lost Big Brother they were really concerned about a head Filby hours and be had from the ratings for Suffolk for awhile.

Ok, you are live on Channel 5.

Please do not swear.

I'm coming to get you after this advert more meeting using just a moment, but let's take a Break to find out who's on media Masters this week with Paul Blanchard net spin that wheel and it's landed on cristina, nicolotti Squires the former editor of channel 5 news now director of content at Sky News let's hear a clip responsibilities for the content.

They know how we how we put out the stuff that Sky News gathers if you like, how we put it on the

Anyhow we put it out on mobile how we put it on the radio and there is documentaries that we make which can appear on the news shows but also can appear on Sky Atlantic various other places so yeah, it's really it's a very broad range responsibilities.

How it works at day today.

I guess I might be making another girl long will find out more as I go along that was Christina nicolotti Squires you can hear all the media Masters interviews for free at Media Masters darts FM media news and sad news this week, but the radio pressure group is that a fair description Maria pressure groups which side you're sitting on the worst thing? I was cold and ultra feminist terrorists Ltd Blaby records about terrorism women is too close at the end of the year and Maria you founded sound women.

This must be really difficult decision.

It was really nothing like this is easy with wrestled with this for about a year and a half but I think it is the right decision and we have been so thrilled and chaired by the Kind of Wonderful response to it actually because it's Attard closing an organisation is it is launching one and actually the love that came across Twitter made it all worthwhile.

We've talked a lot on this show about the roles of women in the media and actually have generally women are underrepresented in what do we do Little Talks a lot about female representation on telly, but you guys really work that the first people to sort of make it official that you have a campaign to get more women on the radio that stopped just Pollock singing about it and do something so what have you achieved 5 glorious years and I think you know it's important to say that five years of a lot of people working very hard and I think what we set out to do was to change the industry and two ways by

Trying to change the way the industry thinks and we did that by lobbying in a really collaborative way.

I think we were very careful.

You know not to just go in finger wagging but try and be part of the solution, so we did research as well.

I know some of the early meetings.

I had god I got told we were you're a nice to have I got told like it was just a little extra cherry on the cake rather than something.

I was you know for me fundamental about saving or industry really and there was a woman who shall remain nameless from local radio where when we went in with the figures and basic said you've got no local radio women posting a breakfast show on their own refuse to accept this could possibly be the case so I think doing research that had never been done before about the number of women on air was really really useful because as soon as we show that people you know it will most wasn't about making the argument that the stats spoke for themselves.

It was just so crazily ski.

Feels like it isn't so you have 80 things that right there are females who thinks they're definitely as soon as we launch that was one of the things that we showcased in immediately the same people who basically said there wasn't a problem with back on the phone.

We done mentoring schemes with women in BBC local radio done the three huge mentoring schemes anyway, but we have I think through that changed the way people think so it's now not acceptable to have an all male panel anymore.

It's just not acceptable to have two men two white men presenting the news for 3 hours every morning non-stop without having women in there because if you don't have women on are you don't have Women's Lives and experiences.

It's not just always like a slightly different voice.

It's the sand or is that aren't getting through and men to women bunny more frequently as having a good Morning Britain less Miranda Sawyer and everyone who sales in her She Wrote on the weekend that two women had hosted the Today programme and no one had died and it's like yes victory.

You know we are getting there.

So we're making huge strides and I'm really

Now we have we have kind of properly change the perception of the radio industry said im radio fest we go to the radio festival and you walk in and it's no longer a sea of white men in suits which it really was when I started and then it's very hard to feel part of an industry.

If you don't see anybody who looks like you and that's not just women I'm here for sound women but you know it counts if you are if you are young and everyone else there is a senior manager accounts if you are black Asian minority ethnic you know there are lots of Voices that aren't being heard on radio that we want to change for the other thing.

I'm really proud of that.

We've done as we haven't just lobby the industry, so that those equality of opportunity.

We've also I think really work to develop women in radio on all sorts of level, so we got massiveg training scheme starting tomorrow in Bristol and going to Manchester London Birmingham that's all about technical training of members of been asking for technical training for a long time.

It's also about things like confidence about how to brand yourself you know if you ever thought about bing and voice over.

Artist if your reporter all those kinds of things and I really hope that we were equipped a lot of women particularly to a mentoring scheme which is just brilliant for getting women to kind of am really high and not be afraid.

I hope that we've equip them to kind of take advantage of those opportunities when they come up.

There's some really kind of fun.

I don't know where they got an interesting funny kind of you know heartbreaking starts going round so that if the job comes up a bloke will look at it and thank you.

I've come if I've done a bit of that.

I've got 20% of the jobs.

You know skills they looking for I'm going to throw my hat into the ring.

Where is a woman will often as not have 80% 90% or 100% of the skills but will be still kind of basically going on.

I'm not sure.

What do you think is it a you know? Is it right for me? Would I be good enough blah blah blah? So I think a lot of it is about not just those opportunities, but really empowering all women in radio and audio to get out there and grab them.

You still hear from people usually men but sometimes even women in the radio industry, who will say still are well as research about this and it says a lot of women don't like listening to women yeah.

I just rubbish believe that I mean I think you know my expenses than women I've been to a few some women events and I really found them quite inspirational and I enjoyed you know if my timer ready Academy working with Sam within I think it's fundamentally changed when I was at Radio One I member having a huge battle to get Jackie brambles onto a daytime show there was nobody on Radio 1 on daytime.

She was doing to put on the early shall we eventually to Gary Davies off and put on that was a huge battle when I was a kid listening.

We had a nightingale and that was it you know women did not think radio was a career for them and I think that's fundamentally changed.

I think it's still more work to do and what really matters now is it everybody owns the issue and that work continues, but it should now be continued as part of the overall man is.

Radio stations, but it's a fundamental change I think I think you've done it.

Very quickly you know we've had 25 years of Presley no progress in the last 5 years.

You've made fantastic progress now every major network does have women on in Peak time ready to the one where there's no one actually in the regular schedule.

They have caused the deaths of frequently women Radio 2 scholar human on daytime at some point but you know you've made an amazing difference worried about if we may speak honestly between us is that it will step back with a I'm so with very very keen to make sure there is some kind of Legacy were working to create a digital Legacy so that our members can still managed to communicate and correspond and swap tips and swap contacts with each other we are in talks with people about keeping the mentoring scheme going but I kind of key message when we closed it wasn't although some women the organisation is closing the Legacy is very much continuing and I would like to throw the battle on out there.

Everybody listening to basically say please pick this up.

You have nothing to lose from this all you have to do is game you know the business case for having more women on radio is really strong women make up the majority of radio listeners.

It makes no business sense to have white men throughout the day.

You know there are brilliant broadcast is out there.

We know it male and female we know it's going to take a little bit more time, but I really would urge everybody not just sound women not just a kind of new younger generation of women coming through but men to all people working in this industry to just see this is a really great opportunity to go and get fresh voices get fresh experiences cu so's female listeners, because they are there for the taking and Leon is this happening in your spare of entertainment.

Le cos I mean I know you've got Sandi Toksvig hosting QI for example.

If you haven't done when I think you are if you have three women on it as well as more women than men on it, so that's definitely it is a panel shows there are more Q Mock the Week when I don't make that but you know it is while the motorway many women is not like seeing me I didn't show has changed a bit.

There's not so much of a grinder buy testosterone cause I can't say the word you know if something fast is it slightly more warmer as a place where were never watch it but when I see it seems like you didn't program that was three for you and tell you it was a huge been issues driving for bame obviously to be in history been quite the same gender imbalance in television has a buzzing radio those there is a bit definitely special the top end but I do like is never been quite a bit radio.

It was always been a bit more traditionally male-dominated atoll recent exam.

Well done a fantastic job of a definite on it needed to change and it has it does he be changing it in Tel Aviv

I'll be Drive the moment really is about sort of diversity generally about disability and Ben and that is really that's a big priority for forever intelligent moment OK one more radio story 50 BBC personalities including Jarvis Cocker and Andrew Marr have written a letter to the Sunday Times asking me corporation to look again at its charter renewal plans for radio Maria what is there beef new system has been operating in TV for a long time that is being rolled out to radio that means that Indies independent production companies can pitch for more hours of content so at the moment in Diesel Limited to about 20% I think and that is going to go up to 60% That's not going up to 60% and till 2022 and also that does not mean hello Indies here is 60% What it means is this 60% is open to you in that fabulous glorious BBC Fraser the Wok the winter of creative competition so

Are you not obviously I am now very firmly outside in the in the world, but I was at the BBC for a very long time.

I understand just how these stabilizing it must be if you've been working on one particular show in the BBC very happily for years to suddenly feel like you might have to pitch for it.

Obviously that is the reality for those of us on the outside and I think there's a huge amounts to be gained from getting very skilled in pitching in Uno refining your breathing coming up with ideas, so I think it's a great thing.

I don't think the listeners will notice any change you know they might things might change slightly but they certainly won't see any dropping quality the week or maybe it did seem herself in the excellence of drumstick a lot of shows on CBBC now made by independent and they are as good if not better than they ever were but there's good Rockin the same they don't say hi Danny it's above the line.

I think it's I think it's the quality of the people want to make radio want to make really not doing it to make a load of money and general but you know you don't mean hello doing at the moment you do because you want to make something and I think the people want to make these shows for independence will be people are passionate and good at what they do.

They won't be doing it to just make a lot of money.

I owe money to me now really making radio Uno first television or films or anything out without immediate.

It's kind of accent reduction of year is the advertising side but you want to do this want to do to make your programs and not going to do it for a quick buck noise of a Sydney Indies actor you know everyone's looking at digital everyone's moving out to audio because you can't make a living from radio at the moment.

You know one Radio 4 documentary is not enough to make ends meet so the idea that strands might be up for grabs and you know obviously the Archers Desert Island Discs on coming out anytime soon.

BBC's kind of Crown Jewels will stay very firmly in house.

Well, this is rolled out but the idea that but you might be able to you know be able to do something bigger with all the brilliant creative teams at your disposal many of whom were trained at the BBC you know where we're all moving in very similar circles.

I think it's a sort of thing that could you know not just benefit the industry, but be the difference between some staying Afloat and others not on this.

Do you call the nuj are debating this on Wednesday is there question will the Archers go the same way as bake off your answer to that well.

Archers is not going to go to channel 4.

Is it now in that was just a complete cock up by both the BBC and by Channel 4.

I mean my point here is to stupid first of all the BBC has to keep a critical mass of production.

I totally understand that and then there's a trade-off here.

You don't want to completely decimated Turner production because that keeps your the creative process and the creative engine going but putting more out to Indies must be a good thing because it's better idea as it's still give me value for money.

Is the right thing to do I was rather bemused by the statement that they said talented programs and designing disconnectors will not be included which makes him think that maybe other shows I'm not talented.

I mean radios all about Talent it's all about people we listen to the radio because someone is engaging said something that's going to you know make some some emotional connection with this.

I found it rather odd.

I think is a good thing I understand this concern inside ultimate.

I think it will benefit listens.

I think I actually Maria I disagree.

I think it'd be better for listeners as well actually you know who do such an amazing job and I'll brilliant creative people and you know I'm sure you'll do very well once there in this system once they get used to pidgey actually lots of them might find a really enjoy it and also is very easy sometimes when you're in the BBC to be stuck not even just on one network, but on one programme on one network and one of the things.

I understand is going to happen.

Is that it will be?

Easier for people within the BBC to pitch to other bits of the BBC and that is a great thing.

Absolutely potential by definition is the possibility of achieving more in the fast-paced world of digital advertising Oracle data cloud has built its Legacy on finding the signal through the noise on unlocking potential we bring together date and technology to help you better understand your audience where to best engage them and how to measure a tool to realise true potential Oracle data cloud where better outcomes begin visit Oracle data cloud., to learn Morse BBC sounds, we don't have animals Birds insects witchery, so this stuff has gotten tell me.

Did you do Forest 404 a brand new drama podcast starring pearl Mackie to listen to Forest 404 first download the free BBC Sounds app? There is just time for our Media quiz this week.

It's entitled time check which selected a 10-second audio clip for you but hints at the media story from the past week.

Your job is to guess the correct story before the clip ends.

You'll have 10 points to start will deduct a point for each second that goes by before you give a correct answer.

Oh my goodness instructions to more complicated and liquid have a go the winner gets a special breaking news, but they can use in everyday life.

Ok Maria your first here's your clip.

Maria you have 8 points if your answer is correct, what is it all the tributes out this week? I know there's a great deal of love him at Radio 2 or you know all my kind of ex colleagues at Radio 2.

Just thought he was amazing but one of the best anecdotes.

I thought I saw about him came from Jeremy Vine he did a really lovely little tribute where he was talking about Jimmy doing a phone in not a phone and he had a guess there, but a listener phoned him for the first time I got through to the production office and was hopping mad about some point that was being made and the producer wrote it down on a piece of paper to get through to the studio and Jimmy picked it up and not only kind of absorbed it, but asked it to the person news interview with Ted Heath actually and that was basically the first time anyone has done that and that's what 40 years ago 50 years ago and that is now the bedrock of every radio.

Interview strike phoning to say it's ok to be the Prime Minister in play Fleetwood Mac and before then.

They would those were two different shows play Fleetwood Mac yes me on your story next don't your headphones which news story is this stop the clock and you achieve that in 4 seconds so therefore you're down to six points if this answer is correct one behind Maria I think that's that wasn't a band with that Peter Fincham and Tim expand.

It was like they called right now.

Xx I know it's very good, but it's all is well.

Kept Secret in television really.

They are forming some kind of your company to working together and I believe the thought is that is there going to be umbrella ring other people and other companies or do that we saw the funding awesome running?

Overseeing the company's at that look in a form and torsos Peter and Tim give me a call.

I'm around you're ready to be umbrella and there is another EE which of course is also formed by two titans in it was orange and Deutsche telekom getting together they tend to have back Drive horses over the years today.

Isn't there this week by the people are people assholes rebelling against the super Indies and starting some other proper indeed since the cool thing to do.

They don't want to run it makes any companies out 5 companies at the same time OK finally Paul your 10 seconds on the clock Starts Now

On a bit of a bit of a cliffhanger didn't we are doing to increase their profile pictures of sea no idea it was the sound of local TV station that's Manchester do you know the story now and then engaged to involve and base of the whole thing's become a bit of it as a dog's breakfast in Basia very soft promise and therefore the promising nothing really now.

It is yes the story of the local TV station.

That's Manchester house Ofcom for the terms of its licence to be changed for the third time according to private hire what team does got to do with a God knows I'm in no one to watch the relaxation of they so expensive.

I love your meals even more now Lyon V local TV is still a business models not be proven to work out and it's a challenging modelling.

You know I don't know whether it ever is going to work but the moment no one is making local TV successfully and making money and producing great telly so in what's the space of space to London life aspiration when you're stoned you say thank you to Paul Robinson Leon Wilson and Maria Williams and as you're now up to date with us.

Why not get inspired by listening to the latest episode of Media Masters with Sky News is director of content cristina, nicolotti Squires Bananaman the producer Matt Hill and the media podcast is 8 PPM production until next time bye bye.

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