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Read this: #59 - Badly burnt by Bake Off - The Media Podcast with Olly Mann

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#59 - Badly burnt by Bake Off - The Medi…



This edition of the media podcast is coming to you.

Thanks to our sponsors Media Masters FM hello and welcome to the media podcast I'm J cancer on the show this week's Bake Off poach by Channel 4 the 10th term as Mellons to stay with a babe, but they're still many Twists the cut-out panel spells the mount plus.

It's back BBC charter renewal is on the new government's agenda.

Why Channel 4 May yet moved to Birmingham and the Sun online gets a traffic boost all that and if there's time the joy of the media quiz that's all to come on today's Media podcast so early man has escape the rain just in time which leaves me and the chair.

I'm Jake kantar Media editor of Business Insider and joining me today at the hospital club is harkonnen media journalist for the Guardian and observer also want to Britain's best-known comedy producers Ash Atalla the founder of roughcut TV welcome to you both.

Hi, how are you?

Alright, thank you.

Very well Tara I want to start with you.

What was your Media moment of the week 2nd of March it's now.

I have said I did a dissertation on The Orchards at university.

So so you're lucky to have an hour long special and it's be the culmination of the abuse plot was brilliant.

I thought it's really well done amazing actors in its Catherine Tate Eileen and they obviously brilliant Louisa podcast who's been playing Helen I thought you was fantastic and there's a new editor and editor who I think has come from bacteria things on Waterloo Road but he seems to have her in a good background for drinks.

He's got the job at the side and how I'm good.

I just want to know if you did your dissertation on the Archers nobody said that.

Insights not what degree was that silly the thing on the Archers they're talking marketing you doing really well.

Thank you next year.

I think I'll be here next year about it on our new projects coming on can I give us a favour if I knew you would know you know as soon as I figure out what's happening? You'll know what's happening now in that phase of production companies go through various cycles of we've just done sort of 7 months of filming up early in editing and all the stress that goes without an hour and a sort of a script moto it's calm but focused at the office and people just do nothing series 3 you, please with high-performing.

Yeah, we're really pleased with its fantastic series so far.

That's kind of you.

It feels like it's got a bit of a word of mouth.

I love Sophia to sort of one of the first shows for a little while where my friends and their friends are enjoying it and then a taxi driver will surprise me by going on have you seen that people just do something is people to see nothing doesn't matter mate, but I'm glad you're watching it although.

I know I never heard of it and never heard of it actually couple of people meant to give you insight and how is performing at a few more than that they will never it's doing really well.

I want did you hear about the wizardry radio sorry to interrupt that's my timer going off and it can only be one thing my exquisite Victoria sponge news is ready to come out of the oven Twista cheese straws The Great British Bake Off dominated the headlines this week at negotiations between the BBC and love Productions to keep Bake Off on BBC One

Down on Monday and the format with swiped in a matter of hours by Channel 4 for 75 million quid the next days Mel and Sue issued a statement declining to quote follow the doe to the rival broadcaster, but there's no news yet on Paul and Mary Ash you're you're an indie an independent producer.

Are you surprised by this or is this just the way things are going now.

I think it's the way things are going actually I wasn't surprised by it.

I think actually for the general public.

It's must be really confusing because they don't there's no reason why they would understand the world of the independent television producer, so it's the BBC or Channel 4 so I think there's a lot of like what how can that happen but I think to put in context for me.

It's this I don't think the oil that that so has struck is so strong.

It's getting so much at uni the numbers that that show guests are equivalent to solve when England play football matches and and and it just in I am a man.

Who.

Spends his life trying to find the next thing and we all do all the time and so for a company like that from for a show like that to be into anything from sort of 10 to 15 million is so rare and so then normally in the marketplace any marketplace you would sell your very precious oil to a high better because of the way the BBC set up by quite some distance.

They couldn't be the highest bidder so in a sense.

What love production of Diana's thought well.

We've got the product.

We are in the oil.

This is our show the show can remain the same but this is our children's inheritance this is this is probably the biggest hit wherever going to have an our whole lives are we doing anything wrong like trying to maximize the profits from that sounds like you got quite a sympathy with love then I can understand the thought process that led them to do what they did although the news flow since the initial announcement has been slightly sort of apocalyptic before love and it's a really interesting PR

Case you know I'm not going to make cake pans.

I will leave at 2, but as they as as their story crumbled during the last couple of days that I did think it's off its the sea sounds dramatic but it's all taking on a Shakespearean sort of tale of Greed and stealing you know all that sort of stuff, so it's the things been extraordinary things been pretty baby Virtuoso all different sorts and all different camps and everyone's got their own take on it and yet.

It depends where you're coming from but the difficulty is that it depends what happens now with Paul and Mary and if they don't go and it makes it more difficult now melon seeds that we're not going you know we're not going to follow the day because now they give me look a bit greedy but foot for the BBC and and tell that might be perceived.

Did they don't want that on a case of they've lost the are the biggest show so they're not going to be happily sending it.

It's way onto source question keep my editor keeps asking me is why are Mel and Sue not going why wouldn't they take the pay day because of their existing tenancies in it and what they do and I imagine that you know the beaver throwing shows it at Mary and Paul I thought it was very interesting that last last Sunday in the sun put all the sudden elfida.

Kyle Show bit sort of Top Gear really.

Why is that something come out and this is obviously why because they want to keep them at the Beloved believe the format I assume it's strong enough that he doesn't need to tighten a talent what I think is the strangest thing of all of it.

Is that love Productions and Channel 4 didn't have these Talent conversations before it was announced.

So you have thought you know really I think you know ok melany I think the format could outlive them alone when you have something that is such a resounding hits.

You do not want to pull at a single bit of that thread because

Why would you because who knows what weird alchemy luck one in a million stuff land you with a hit of that size.

So there is no doubt that.

You don't want to change a single element because 15 million people tell you not to seem to have gone really without netting and now of course without Mary and Paul is it is it's a story of disaster actually really I think it goes downhill from here the ratings are always going to be in this is a calculation that love and Channel 4 would have everyone will have run the numbers has as much as you can I would guess that had a show of move lock stock and barrel to Channel 4 with everything intact the numbers would have been about 6 or 7 million.

I think say down from 10 to begin with and then maybe fall into 5, but I think you don't have met him pull your interlock A34 million and that's what that's what kind of successful represent the story around the show.

One of the narrative in the Bible apps and also I just don't know you know I know they only just concluded their failed negotiations with the BBC at 3 and then I was signed at 5, but I just don't know why Channel 4 and love.

I don't know why that work wasn't going on in the bath now, Not the opposite of Top Gear I mean they've left without a show and now the show is leaving without the town.

Yes, she had to do what they did to Clarkson but what happened at Clarkson and that's absolutely you know it was the right thing to do but still it shows how the Talent and the format can be inextricably linked in many ways my dick you for the audience any bets on who who might replace them.

People as well as raffle and Kirsty yes well as brilliant as they were in for that, but it's such a shame that the four of them don't get to stay together, but I would love to be aerial poles agent has blister-like rash.

Just joking before you are probably be reading the news next week going because they've got everything about her picture of the BBC you bored as well everything what about these arguments that this doesn't really sit in Channel 4 remit.

Do you do by that I mean channel 103 defence Daniele Gatti defence size on this I see that yes, it's not so to celebrate.

They have presenting.

It doesn't diversity and equally having that it's that repertory.

Kind of system is it that will allow them to do the Paralympics so what you know if it brings in enough money, so I did I see that from both sides to be honest with you yet.

It's not new and should be creating things which are the broadcasters want to poach but equally I can see you know it's it's made time for a safer kind of place for a bit hasn't it for them.

I'm saying is not going to come out the budget directly you I will pay the horse racing and a bit of surplus.

I mean I don't buy all that nonsense that this isn't this shouldn't be the sort of thing that channel for doing I don't buy that at all.

It's like people saying BBC shouldn't be popular is that one of the politician started saying Strictly Come Dancing is 25 million pounds a year Bake-Off wouldn't you rather see that money going to new comedy personally yes production company.

Did you have in mind all of these channels with Aaron die without having enough audiences and that's why is another way of looking at that.

If British Bake Off does really well on Channel 4 there might be a nice inheritance or 5 or 6 million coming to a new sitcom and then I'll be very grateful to be in at slipstream and a JD from my TV to Channel 4 and greetings like the book club that works.

Well.

I just found this out of it feels like there was a bit of a catastrophic breakdown in relations between the BBC and love do we think that's now a broken relationship and you won't see love doing stuff for the BBC in the future series BBC worldwide have I think for love which I thought would be interesting I got the right the worldwide rights to bake off lockdown for another 12 years to be making money out of it.

So yeah.

I don't know maybe they have a full of funneling system that they do that decision actually have to meet I don't know quite how bad it door, but maybe not Christmas cards this layer siregar sewing bee don't they?

BBC have to be quite careful.

I think when they they can't be seen to take their toys you know home and I'm sorry about the pram so I think they will continue to work with love as I said he's got to be the bigger woman auntie is a big old lady in this case more median using just a tick but first will hear from Jeffrey Archer yes Jeffrey Archer who is Paul Blanchard guest on this week's Media Masters podcast reread your prison Diaries I think last year and I've read and write all three of them and I'm absolutely fascinating well.

I think a part of that was because I was desperate to kill time running just lie on the bed and do nothing or go for another walk the rrb.

Ability to sit down and write for 2-hours everything that have happened.

I found fascinating and some of the human beings I met absolutely fascinating and they're not only Dominator

If they showed the three present Diaries prisoner of birth was greatly influenced by that appeared in my life and I wrote 12 short stories as well because I picked up little vignettes from prisoners who told me amazing stories of course I couldn't be sure whether they were true or not, but it didn't matter they were amazing stories that that was Jeffrey Archer the Jeffrey Archer speaking to Paul Blanchard on this week's at Media Masters podcast all the episodes of free and available to download now at Media Masters FM at so on any other week this would have top the show yes, it's the small matter of BBC charter renewal culture secretary Karen Bradley published a draught charter this week with it.

She demanded that the BBC revealed a pair of stars who earn more than £150,000 a year how much to the broadcasters annoyance elsewhere BBC Trust chairman Rona fairhead was told by Prime

Theresa May that she can't just walk into a job chair in the BBC's powerful new governance board and in another development the national Audit Office will be given unfettered access to BBC worldwide and BBC Studios Paris restart with Pompeii originally the plan was 450000 transparency the government has had a change of heart or should I say Theresa May as she's very insistent on BBC that he's wanting to rewrite things had it worth going on it was a bit of a change of tack for the Beeches expecting the higher band but I think they are the main people who are going to be affected our presenters news presenters.

I think you know journalist who obviously annoyed about it.

So the suggestion is people like Laura kuenssberg hit Robinson B&Q Edwards Andrew Neil that kind of that come in and I'm not quite sure that's the way commercial subsidiaries so if independence don't have to say how much they are paying do does BBC Studios when I go to Commercial I don't know quite that the level of detail that it goes down too well, if that's the case then it's basically didn't the news presenters who are going to take the head which is so annoying for them who benefits from this.

I think that's the point if there's something about it feels rather spiteful of course for all interested in I mean.

I would like to know what you weren't and you know and I'm not going to tell you but I'm not going to tell you but I think there's something about it.

Just feels Very Thought of mean-spirited and I know that sort of a childish phrase but Kevin lygo.

That the good people at the BBC could earn more outside.

It's just I'm just know that didn't always used to be the case.

I don't in the last 10 years has been an enormous sort of downward pressure on BBC budget and it's just not a wash with money like it used to be in so it has already become much more efficient secondly guess what people on television people who are stars people who are radio and TV stars earn a lot of money Around the World in if your famous your often reasonably well off and the fact that that is on the BBC or iTV or something doesn't the fact that we from the BBC in a different way doesn't mean that those people shouldn't half of what they might be because then they just won't be there if they have a choice on in there won't be a BBC so I think we have to talk grow up in our analysis all know we should be overpaid if I can think of an advantage.

It's that if the BBC has done a bad.

Deal with anybody in particular, it will be an embarrassment or riddle stick out but then you don't want the tabloids or the public dictating Laura Coombs Berg contract.

We can't live that way and so that's why when I stop to think about it.

I was really surprised then and you know even has a nosey man.

You know I don't actually really want to know what they earn and I don't think the public so you won't uob checking in with the new year of course.

I will gyno course I will be I'm simply saying that I don't think any of us.

Have a right to simply because we found it by the licence fee payers that that I don't get it and there's also an argument that you know another it is not just another government department you know someone in Department of Work and Pensions in Only We reveal their salary.

I don't think everyone's going to be going gosh Tony encounters enis.

Where is it because these people are on telly I'm in Frankley Laura kuenssberg.

She was on telly prickly constantly.

She probably in our and every penny.

I think that she's that she gets.

The amount of work that she did she's does I know it's not saving lives, but it's hard work.

It's not easy doing the job.

They do and I'm bored and government Preachers the fact that it's a retaining BBC's independence Lily other it talks about bring it and line with the Civil Service yes, but those two things don't sit well to get people who read the news and present Match of the Day I'm not civil servants.

That's just there in there in there at the famous end of journalism or there in show business and you can't take one you can't you know it and I will collect imagine how this is gonna play out it is going to be now a relentless field A4 paper essentially here forever and also you know it's not like the sun or any of the Murdoch press report BBC stories with anything like a modicum of self-respect of fairness and so this you know this is just absolutely taking the wheels off it will be.

A really difficult time but companies like yours.

Let's take an example you produce cuckoo BBC3 presumably Taylor Lautner is reasonably handsomely paid for that, but he won't have to disclose his pay because he works with you guys for an independent production company if that is the case you know we will we will we will have to abide by whatever the laws even if that Lord stupid, but if if we if we don't have to then we won't if we're not asked to reveal I don't think what we pay them should be in the public domain ok, and let's Theresa May come round to my house and tells me otherwise it won't be until around her head.

Yes, I going and that's a big news story in it in and of itself.

Could you talk through white what happened and can we speculate a little bit on who might you might be in a good position to replace her.

Maybe they look a bit.

I don't be that a problem for radio Mary been difficult she was appointed.

They've been some stories about you know her independence and

If it's not been an easy write her at all.

I don't think it's quite you know what she expected it.

Never is an IT leader was Chris Patten either because there's another disk of interim arrangement probably till April that's going to put people off.

You know whoever might well.

Go for it.

I mean there's all sorts of people out there who would would potentially want the job and we can do the the there's the usual list isn't there every little so you don't people who appreciate the BBC did a really good Caroline Thompson I thought did a really good job when she was there I think because it's not been totally to find out what the job will entail how it will all play out and I've got off, hits a different italo bocchino the government have said that they will be you know which I think is it 5.

They're point and then there's that there's going to be more independent the BBC thought that there would be so rude names of come over normal Gemini TV to Terry Leahy the former chief executive at Tesco it at that level.

It's quite the same as it was.

Little LittleLizard things a bit more detail you can't really say who would go for it.

It's been curtailed and curtailed this job over the over the years would be a bit colder or no.

I can't actually I was sitting with my phone but I was I actually think it's is possibly my fault that she lost her job because I am I pray tell when I was on my way to the Edinburgh TV festival 3 weeks ago and I got an email from Rona fairhead office saying that she would like to meet me in Edinburgh and I thought we what have I what have I done and then I thought about what I done.

It was quite a lot of bad things so should she might so has been someone see the headmistress and I tried so I think we did it have a coffee in Edinburgh at 3 weeks ago and I think it was a last coffee.

She had her I said there's a cat outside do yourself we had a very nice.

Southend do myself a favour and let's get out of here.

She bought me a coffee.

We had a very nice chat.

I complimented her on her nice jacket.

She said that she like my shirt we spoke about BBC comedy and then she got fired.

Are you do the math take I did text her because I had her mobile number cos we were making our assistance ended up leaving it to us so we were making to arrange with directly so I I did text her last week saying I'm sorry if it was me that made you lose your job.

Did you text me back still waiting for reply? So also this week at the prospect of Channel 4 moving to Birmingham appears to be very much back on the agenda according to the Telegraph what do you make of this the truth? Is this most or even if a lot of filming is done recently most of the television production companies are based in London it's just a fact and this is the capital city of this country and it.

Simply makes sense for Channel 4 to make it easier to have a dialogue with them with their customers with their suppliers rather because of geography and to move it to Birmingham I get that it sounds good.

I get the Birmingham six in the middle of the country and I get the symbolism but practically speaking I think it's a red herring and I don't I don't you then create your own sort of micro system in Birmingham where it doesn't make a lot of shows in Bristol with shooting Belfast which in Manchester this is about where you spend your production dollars and I think to spend your production dollars regionally is a good thing you know so that's not all the film and is done in London I get that but it doesn't matter where and HQ is housed and the fact that it's in London actually makes practical sense.

Do you think Emma would prefer this to privatisation?

But I guess I'm in at I think when they've been opened their headquarters in Salford other companies like red and and that said you know it did help on it and it helps bring your commissions up there and money out there currently CBBC live event and you know it's it's it's good.

They had lots of local people came along to it have Blue Peter there and it really for journalists for independent countries based around here yet.

So it's a bit of a slip you've got to pay the train fare but for PPI the viewers actually they get the chance to go to something which actually and see if films with they might not in it if it was filmed in London so I think can have it in a positive effect ok sticking with TVs are you broke a great story this week about ofcom's television standards boss bill emmott stepping down in in something.

Castle yes essentially was it looks as though he was asked to choose between his writing that he was doing and being chair of the content board even though when he was appointed in a day.

They they did assume the due diligence on on him and you what he was doing.

So yeah, it's a bit of a bit of a tricky one really but I'm in the content borders as is a sensitive area, where does it leave off, given that they're taking on BBC regulated yeah, but yes yeah and b.

I think that did the thing is what it says about Ofcom forgetting about boring or regulation stop it's not yet, but the the idea about who could be someone who in overseas, what what's happening with the BBC as a much more sense of air and I think it's made of, realise you know the spotlight is on them even more so about the kind of p.

Bullet di oropa sailor content it's really sensitive but his writing any good thanks the former chief editor of The Economist so lot of things which you know probably get above my head, but yes, I did read some of his work for a healthy crop of online stats for two national newspapers in August at the mail online yet another record of 15.3 million unique users are the sun became the fastest growing UK newspaper website heart feels like the sun made a reasonable decisions to tear down the paper your son is a very popular read for lots of lots of readers and you know it unless I know who works on it says that they were annoyed when it when trying to pay older people weren't saying storage.

I've got the app.

It's really clunky personal question isn't it right who's going to pay the other the journalism and weather is going to go behind a paywall up with going to be advertisers, but in this case it the figures prove it is popular cash you're a regular mail Online reader America I read it.

I can see my lot of newspapers everyday, so I will take a look at everything I get their the Guardian the times and the sun all of my iPad everyday but if they're giving how much of what would be in the sun.

I'm paying for would be on their website.

What is it the content like how many the main stories would be on the website for free or imagine they put a why am I paying so why am I paying for the sun on my iPad keep intruders at the same? I think it's specialised content.

Everything I've been looking for on the sun recently as there's a mental stuff on football.

I'm not quite sure but clips.

I don't know but certainly new store potential by definition is the possibility of achieving more in the fast-paced world of digital advertising Oracle data cloud has built its Legacy on finding the signal through the noise on unlocking potential we bring together data and technology to help you better understand your audience where to best engage them and how to measure a tool to realise true potential Oracle data cloud web better outcomes begin visit Oracle data cloud., to learn more ok last but not least as time for the media quiz at this week's a pan in the oven.

4 terrible puns that hint at new commissions broadcasters are bringing into the world does in with your name's winner gets Yorkshire puddings loser gets the washing up this ill buzz test are you say what is your name? Who's putting the pedal to the metal in the Great British break off l Tara Paul Hollywood's become Jeremy Clarkson that's not the question.

I guess but it's your the BBC suddenly offering him a car show nothing to do with what's going with because it happened before and I'm sure they didn't realise what you're right that that's the news of Paul Hollywood is the front his own car show on BBC Two which will involve him driving around foreign country.

Sounds amazing question to who sang hello no, I'm on the internet.

I do this one.

It's a comedy one.

It said big Dom Joly I believe is bringing back trigger Happy TV which four people of my age is still sort of Hazzard nostalgic a place in our hearts from sort of mid-twenties and I can't quite figure out the scope of what's coming back.

Just this just broadcast reported as Joseph almost like they will bring back the series but a bit of digging my script tells me that there's 8/6 minutes AIDS and its camera show all 486 minute episodes, but I guess if it proves itself again and if it works.

Just on keeping watching London Eye.

Apart from space than trigger Happy TV ok question 3, which part of Radio 4 is 18 only Atalla the pornography part of the pawn season no, no you're both wrong.

I'm afraid sitara security commissioner Sinead William has announced a new comedy shows for the network anything.

I just I've looked and less than is a mixture of salt of established Talent and new people Radio 4 traditionally more in the old days actually than that of late, but maybe she's looking to change that has a good track record of bringing through new shows and you know the list of well-known Alan Partridge nomad David's stuff as well, so like I guess but it off of late of course the internet as rather take.

Radios places the testing ground for new comedy ok, so the score is it's 11.

So why maybe at waimea soon be the news at when are Tara Sienna any of the week is a bully be a massive story we got news it went again with them ITV battle of the bomb battle of the Boars Head out all done many people speak and write all the usual headlines about the news, but this is the news that ITV are planning to move the news back to 10:30 because of an entertainment show some kind of the late late to coding style show the Abbey Abbey annoyed Forest Tom bradby, is it in Abu Dhabi incandescent? He's put so much of his reputation on the line for the New The New Look news at 10 as I'm at the point that you know it's good to provide an alternative and they know I think it you know it could be could work but after all these kind of not being that ITV did.

Previous nemesis different regimen ITV book previous regime did to make sure to ask for them up for BBC good move venues and now the new regime is going well mate.

Will do it every line is very interested in that.

They are saying ITV that they're not going to move the news permanently but maybe Tom Bradbury confronted.

I mean if you stop to think it is weird, isn't it that in a in a world where we can all get news all the time anyway, it is there is something odd about the two biggest channels in this country putting on the news at the same time if there's something about it doesn't quite make sense bearing in mind that we've all got instant access to and anyway, so if you want something a little bit more sort of high-end if you want something a bit more offered if you want to go to a huge terrestrial channel.

It might be nice that it's staggered so that you've got two Bites at the cherry that that's just sort of an emotional.

Running a business response if there's something a bit hard to them running against each other every single light very true good points, but you're still going to get the washing up.

I'm afraid because Tara is the winner 2108.

I'd also like to say a massive.

Thank you to our loyal listeners who have taken out a voluntary subscription to this show we said all the time but without you we simply would not exist you too can join this elite group simply by going to the media podcast opcom forward slash dedicated and swap a few pounds sterling framing check on a future, so it could be a shout out for your business your professional skills or a dedication to someone you love the medium Pokémon is a PPM production and was produced this week by piece of Price and Matt Hill my name is Jake cancer and if you'd like more of me, you'll find me.

Fighting at businessinsider.com until next time goodbye couldn't sure whether or not but it didn't matter they were amazing stories potential by definition is the possibility of achieving more in the fast-paced world of digital advertising Oracle data cloud has built its Legacy on finding the signal through the noise on unlocking potential we bring together data and technology to help you better understand your audience where to best engage them and how to measure a tool to realise true potential Oracle data cloud where better outcomes begin visit Oracle data cloud dot.com to learn more.


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