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Hello and welcome to the media podcast.
I'm only man on today's show we discuss the London 2012 legacy review a journalist attending this year's Olympics than in London last time round.
What does that say about the confidence of the industry? Must there's the latest radio ratings featuring our first date habits 16u digital stations have fed.
We mourn the loss of column inches at mediaguardian and in the media quiz We're breaking barriers with a paywall special that's all to come on today podcast and joining me this Friday and I'll find temporary surroundings of B&B
See Three Counties Radio in Dunstable who have letters moonlight in the studio is legendary radio producer the presenter of the radio Today programme podcast and the man the Daily Star once stabbed Dan Dan the hatchet man it is Trevor Dann thank you for that all the last time we have rip something off Wikipedia 287 status Quo but we did alright this time.
You were the hatchet man.
I was I was that person.
Yeah, I did Wikipedia did one say that I came from a prominent Manchester Jewish family and I know the Jewish nor from Manchester so you know you can never trust it.
Can you think I feel qualified to make you an honorary jute everything with Jane Garvey and a Fiat Panda make a broken for Radio 4 with Jane it's called Jane garvey's bottom Gear night and it's about women and cars and it's very funny.
I hope I'm ready for this this fine day too and I understand you actually borrowed producer Matt's technique of recording in a car when you can't afford a CDI I think that's a trick I learnt when I first started in Rayleigh got the middle 1970s my van rental said cars are great places to record it sounds great and in fact that the interesting thing when you deliberately go out as I did with giant record in a car you get the recording home and unless you know you have a really beat up old car.
It does actually sound like you're in the Studio with the son of distant vacuum cleaner.
She have to do bong soon, noises I said.
Oh, why we bother coming to this video call that's basically we sitting in a rented car in a car park in Dunstable that would be especially depressing alongside Trevor this week.
Not the news editor of broadcast magazine that said to him now.
It is the media editor of Business Insider UK Mr Jake kanter.
How's life at Business Insider very good I've been there just over.
And we are you trumping up the media coverage you do the titles because the titles are quite compelling although.
There's that whole thing going all you need to know about.
Where are the headlines gets really going very badly.
Obviously pretty busy time for any news based office.
We had BuzzFeed is James Ball with us last episode and he said at BuzzFeed they were giving pets to cheer them up after the brexit season what was keeping you jolly, although there were no little animals running around the Business Insider office.
I'm sad to say although we do have Sky News on and Kay Burley had a fantastic feature on Sky News this week saying white white dog dogs in the North stop wagging their tails Olympics are underway on the BBC or at least they will be by the time you listen to this the Paralympic
Article of course on Channel 4 at so let's talk about that what you both made of the the build up to the games and and what the coverage is going to because Jake effectively BBC one becomes the Olympics channel doesn't it for the next 3 weeks it does it will be the focal point for the BBC's coverage and that's how it should be BBC One is a place where they bring together the biggest moments and that's what viewers want to see but they're doing a lot of coverage.
They got about 3000 hours worth of coverage and total which will be across BBC one.
They're doing some stuff on BBC2 and BBC4 but on BBC3 at this point I am a BBC3 WhatsApp sorry I guess that's wonderful programs left on BBC 1 and part of the reason for that is you just can't put it on BBC2 it feels wrong definitely can't be on BBC4 well.
It's on it's on UKTV watch these days.
That's why they play the repeat.
The worldwide, so yeah, it's not entirely alien Burton in terms of the Olympic silver doing 24 live streams online so you'll be able to catch every single moment wherever you are as long as you got an internet connection.
Ok less resources going into it rather than the Americans put in just threw NBC match them.
Do you think quality wise it's always gonna be really good at this kind of stuff and it's a relief that ITV aren't doing it.
So you won't have that ridiculous competitive thing that you had during the World Cup when I tried it out bland each other.
I wish they wouldn't spend quite so much money on stuff.
We don't need like the fancy graphics.
You know the trials that occupy hours and hours of BBC One advertising something we all know perfectly well.
He's on it's called the Olympic Games you know you don't have to have a salad ditto 5 live in a Wi-Fi shut up.
Just get on with it but in some.
Hazel it's just like every other Olympic Games it's full of problems before you start chemo the stadiums won't be built and the poor people are in revolved and all the athletes are on drugs and it's all terrible until the diet starts and it's really exciting and looks of clay pigeons of being shot, but there's probably true.
There is no because it happened in London last time round and we all I guess that will did it appears that that that's a genuinely kind of infectious excitement that takes over the city.
You know it's sort of hard to be resistant to that if you're out there covering it all about the people who are covering it completely remotely more people relying on reuters than last time round Daily Express aren't sending anyone Express group there then just going to be reporting from their sofas.
Please is that ok? I wanted to say you just said something about how 2012 captured the public imagination.
I put it to you that it captured the imagination of people who lived in a
Around London but I think it was the London Games actually it wasn't the British games only give you from the North from Scotland or elsewhere.
I did actually capture call it that level of Enthusiasm that you felt if you're in the tattoo Naturally in the capital of the BBC's audience figures from London 2012 bear that I think I'm a 90% of population engaged with some of the BBC's coverage at some point during their 2012 games.
I mean I've been going through some of the figures for the London 2012 games and astonishing audiences the likes of which I doubt we'll ever see again yo the opening ceremony speech with something like 28 million viewers.
That is a node in a day and age where TV is supposedly suffering in an online world that is unbelievable.
It is what's different this time round there gonna be expecting to match those kinds of things they won't they won't is the simple answer, but that's a lot to do with the time difference Rio's 4 hours behind.
Some big events like the 100m won't be on until 2 maybe 3 in the morning.
So I'm sure they will see a lot of Engagement online and one of the neat little tricks are doing with BBC2 is effectively just replaying the Knights action that from that neither morning.
So if you went to bed and turn your phone off and then woke up and decided right.
I'm going to watch the end pics as live you can do on BBC2 ok right.
Let's move from telly mostly on this evening pieces on the multi-platform event and focus on radio because as the TV producers and the press Barons this week switch their phones onto do not disturb and reclined in a deckchair somewhere in the Dordogne whatever radio executives were waiting on that one last email.
It is the second batch of radio listening figures for 2016 Trevor Dann in no more than 15 words tell us how the radars work people feeling books and they say I remember listening to this program for this quarter of an hour on this station.
Sway to read rage, are there always is as a trend, so don't think that these figures are right and those figures are wrong basically if your trend is up.
That's good news and if your trend is down.
That's bad news and the story this time round is she said in your introduction? We've got the figures for the New Digital stations which is all very positive well as talk about their so we've got Virgin Radio talk radio talkSPORT 2 and share radio probably most prominent new station's how how have they said those of all fared reasonably well off the back of a clear growth in interesting speech not perhaps just news although news will appear that played a big part coming up towards the referendum but all the speech they should have done very well five lives put some on Radio 4 particularly the Today programme put some on Talksport has done well.
There's clearly An Appetite and the big story of all probably is LBC claiming to be in a number one in London where everybody does.
The figures have continued to go up and they're looking very robust since they lost some of their lesser brother who never heard of but the Virgin witch wooden tie in with the trend.
You're mentioning of the obvious interesting speech because of things like the European Championships and brexit.
Is it the case that that many people listen to Virgin Radio do you think or is it that they still have that Legacy name and Brand and people remember it from 10 years ago.
I think there's almost certainly some crossover there isn't that some people who are actually listening to absolute think they're listening to Virgin just as there are people who are listening to LBC you think they listen to Radio London you know those kind of confusions.
I think we'll always happen with with rager.
I suspect that the way radio works though means if these are handfuls of people who are listening and you know we can't read too much into it.
The other hand we've been told haven't we for decades at radios on the way down and here is ready a growing again.
You know what these new stations and their arrival on on the dial as we used to call it was meant is that there is no listening and if only radio I could sample podcast and online as well.
I think you'll find it possibly more people are listening to something whether it's radio Oreo whatever you want to call it that ever happened.
Yes, I think I've said this before on the podcast but it's just incredibly archaic isn't it the range of the telly telly is not in a league of its own.
I mean it's still love you get overnight rate in a sample that people that they're drawing that data from and it doesn't include online figures in the way it probably should but people writing in a diary and it just seems like a joking.
I am I being too disparaging mean.
Oh, it was interesting to see this week.
There was a few grumbles from Radio 1 on Twitter I saw people from the station responding.
Some of the news at the station is under a bit of pressure in terms of its audience figures and SA10 look at the amount that we do online look at our engagement across social media and platforms like YouTube our audiences here, but it's just not it in the traditional platys about that because you used to be part of the team running Radio 1.
It's true and I wish that not the same as a waiting list if there is it doesn't matter he might get YouTube yeah, it's not the same as a real.
I don't think that's true anymore.
I don't think we can define the success of a radio brand by how many people consume it through a radio set I think that's very ancient thinking and we've got to understand that people are listening to what we call radio programmes in a multiplicity of ways through a multiplicity of different devices people are watching the Rihanna Live Lounge on YouTube that's because they've Googled Rihanna it's got nothing to do with Radio 1.
Not necessarily that they they might have listened to her a Rihanna session because they were told by Rihanna's fanclub if such a thing existed 25 years ago.
I don't think that's remotely Road I think what what you are saying is he's Radio 1 which is the BBC's vehicle through which it reaches young people performing well and in terms of its delivery through radio sets not so well, but in terms of its delivery through all sorts of other media.
I think really well and I still think radio one is completely different from capital and the other competitors from commercial radio when people say over there all the same thing I know that they're not listening to it and actually Grimmy breakfast in the context of the whole stations losing listeners is actually managed to keep enough of his listeners, but it's not embarrassing the things it does astonish me is why the just don't put Greg James on at breakfast.
Because then there figures would go up and then some of this problem would go away but but there you know they're stuck with Grimmy that was he was there big idea.
Greg James is brilliant, I think you don't bring up and Chris evans's would go down and you know the BBC would solve 2 problems instantly put Radio 1 figures up which it was and it would put ready to speakers down which the BBC also kind of is happy with a younger than me I believe so you surprise me Jake is there is a Greg James band.
I thought you'd be one of this say groundswell of new listeners that radio threes been attracting or 4 does that not really make any sense either.
I know we shouldn't just question radio every time we discuss trade yeah, but where is the new radiator and I think I know the answer the Proms no, it's because they stopped talking at breakfast.
I really they've taken the news out and so if you have had enough of Radio 4 or LBC whatever that and you just want some nice classical music cutting their they are.
I blame brexit people hate is the cuts that have been made to mediaguardian the paper the Guardian will mail print just one page of media news a week with the Likely end of the mediamonkey column now.
That is a certain reporter called John plunkett has left the building take that one page probably more like half a page once you've accounted for advertising as a big loss, isn't it? I know that print doesn't matter as much as what you do online, but mediaguardian had the most heritage at will the national newspapers in reporting media and it's sort of becoming completely irrelevant now.
I'm really sad about this has been exceptional jealous there over the years after recovering Media better than anyone been one of the examples recent examples that springs to mind is the memorable part they played in blowing out of the Jimmy Savile scandal and they were just a big part of.
Bring that story so far and holding to the holding the BBC to account and for that to no longer be happening in quite such a comprehensive way is is disappointing, but you know they'll keep going Jasper Jackson is still there and he's very good and I'm sure he will continue to keep the coverage up to her a reason behind standard and the other thing is it does present opportunities for other people maybe Business Insider just started getting into Media so I mean long-term listeners of This podcast you remember that we sprang out of what was the media Guardian podcast and back in the day of that show you know the Guardian had to call on to present the show to just turn up into the studio and took you had Matt Wells you had Emily bell you had Steve Hewlett you had Gareth McLean that you have really great commentators at you know and that's before you even mentioned the people that roam the imprint like Mark Lawson and Charlie Brooker for gonna say that's just a gold near isn't it that kind of mediacom.
Terry has gone.
I think that's gonna I should miss it, but you know I was thinking just driving here that I've been taking the Guardian for 25 years delivered to my house.
I'm in credit for a little longer than that and increasingly it doesn't get red apart from on a Saturday it arrives.
It's it's there in the house and then it gets put in the wicker basket and it gets taken out of recycling and that's because we can see in the Guardian on its website and via the iPad Edition and all those things so I think we find out about things you know that you just talking about radios 10-15 years ago if you wanted analysis of radio you went to the media Guardian on a Monday nowadays you get it a minute after midnight from Matt Deegan and Adam Bowie and in all the great blog.
I think all they will miss it because of nostalgia.
We won't miss a lot of the information that we got a lot of that information will continue to be here of course on the media podcast he says cheezly and inter.
Commercial this episode of the media podcast is sponsored by Media Masters it's a podcast featuring extended one-to-one interviews with key people in the industry, and it is always well worth a listen.
I urge you to check out the Katie Hopkins episode it is fascinating but this week, so is no exception Paul Blanchard is joined by science broadcaster Vivienne Parry let's hear a taster guy came up lots of tallow formats and I thought this never happened and then I decided I had to make it happen, so I resigned my safe job of 15 years everybody said to me Vivienne you're completely mad.
You're a Muswell Hill housewife with two small children and your the breadwinner stop it it you crackers your crackers and I answer this advert in the garden and it said television presenters wanted must have evidence in science communication skills, so I said that on any nice the week.
I was to be found in Twilight rest homes for the elderly talking about nuclear magnetic resonance and they said we'd like to see.
You send it to show Real because I didn't have a showreel cos I've never done any TV so I felt a bit and said that the broadcasters couldn't make it available in the time which was true to the extent that they didn't have any footage that they couldn't make it available technically technically true Vivienne Parry bet you can hear the whole of balls interview for free on the media Masters podcast just subscribe wherever you get your podcast relic of the other stories doing the rounds this week the French press have agreed to not reveal the names or photos of any more people involved in mass killings that joke was the thinking here thinking that if they don't name some of the people involving pictures of them that it might prevent future attacks and I don't see them as Martyrs yes, I want to copy cannot anti heroes and I think that anything.
Is worth trying to try and prevent these attacks repeating themselves.
I know Roy glyndwr greenslade has been a bit crystal of this and said that by not naming Omar not having pictures it can lead to rumours and speculation which can breed fear but I think it's worth giving ago.
Why not this it is an experiment as something am always reminded of in these cases is really interesting thing on Charlie brooker's newswipe before years ago when we had a forensic psychiatrist cut together with at some news broadcast at the time about shooting a German school and the present forensic psychiatrist is saying all these things in turn it in terms of what broadcasters shouldn't do in terms of you.
Don't start the stories with Sirens blaring don't make it 24/7 coverage and it's cut together with the broadcasters doing the exact opposite.
And that's the problem isn't it? It's the it's the sense of the not being a middle ground so I mean if if people could just responsibly report the fact you know his this guy.
This is his history and then he blew himself up and he killed some people that's journalism the problem is in the 24-hour news cycle that we have near Trevor it does become hysterical and you can't really stop that message.
I would just don't report it at all that sort of a shame isn't it? I think you're right.
I think Jake is right now that we ought to try something and I don't agree with Roy greenslade that bike covering this up you and gender morphia.
Cos I think what we talking about is exactly that hysterical side you know it's the big picture on the front page.
You know this man killed a lot of people it's not you no stopping just bringing his name and it's also the hysterical is a man with a revolver running down the street.
Let's watch that again and again and again and again.
You know when your 24-hour news channels, so I think something is going to be done.
I think they're probably.
Making no blessed.
I mean it as it's unlikely as mate realistic me to spread across all areas of the media.
So people are gonna find that stuff somewhere if they want it but I suppose if your face isn't splashed across the front of every tabloid that might have an effective of stopping someone being inspired to be that guy.
Let's talk about something like the show has been writing in the stage about the plight of TV drama.
Just when you thought it was all the king Rosie take what's this about the Builder strong is going through absolute boom at the moment.
So I think it's early to be anything other than upbeat.
I don't know how much I call Maggie Brown churlish.
Do you know real champion of British driver and I thought this very even had it I don't think she was saying them things are in trouble.
I think what she was trying to express perhaps in some of the final paragraphs of her piece worth that we can have a bit of a low because there's a bit of vacuum of power at the top of something.
Courses at the moment you got Polly Hill who's just left the BBC is not joining ITV until next month Piers Wenger head of Drama Channel 4 is moving to the BBC that won't happen for a little while because of gardening leave and then you got Beth Willis who's been promoted into Piers his role at Channel 4, but she's just got on maternity leave so head of comedy Phil Clarke is now taking over drama.
So you've got this sort of.
Where there's change and that will ultimately result in commissioning slowing down a little bit but I don't think you'll notice anything on-screen.
I think that was well summarised she was also there wasn't she championing the signs and what a great show it was under that what she was saying was if you want to get something like this away, then you need to do what they've done.
Are you film something in France in English and sell it all around the world you could see that as a depressing story couldn't you tell her you're not the one hand you making drama on the scale of Netflix and Amazon on on the other hand is that what are broadcast is a full well.
That is what they fall now because it's what the audience is telling them there for you know in the era of Netflix
A high definition television and big screens unless a movie has the production values of a Hollywood movie looks cheap long gone are the days when you could do the forsyte Saga on piano black and white on cardboard set and expect people to watch that on their telly and then go to the cinema and watch Ben Hur people want the same kind of quality and so that's why it's being done, but this is all good news for my favourite channel which I know you're going to want me to tell you but please do Channel 343 talking pictures.
That's the channel everybody that's where you see high quality.
I really poor quality movies made in the 1950s and black and white where people say crikey a lot and it's all day long 24/7 crap movies deal.
Honestly you love it inside and to Trevor down and his dated the man they called that.
Sign of stopping sadly the decline of newspapers although they did have that boost in circulation.
We talked about last time another new newspaper is coming to an end this one was only 5 weeks.
I hold you may remember I was quite optimistic about this one on the shower, but the CN group have call time on 24 which will cause it's paper for the north of England and there no jobs going to be lost because actually this was the whole point of it was utilising the the buildings in the staff that they had an and using news wires, but it is the death of another newspaper title even if it only been with us for a short period Trevor no Surprises here.
No Surprises here imagine that I came to you and I said lucky know you read the news on your smartphone and on your iPad and you watch the telly now and again and you list the radio.
They have got a great idea that I'm going to write it all down on a piece of paper and it's going to be 12 hours too late.
Would you would you enjoy this new product of invented? I think you'd say get out of here.
I think they're
Whistling in the dark after therefore new day you have to be brave to experiment in launching a new paper.
I think there is a stumpy pop-up saying that they have now decided to extend their limited run past 5 Editions you could say the secret is just not to oversell.
It don't do a big fan phone say how we got the new newspaper bit of see if people actually want the product you're putting out there.
It's for the 48% as they say I like that scene.
Is it is it available read it so I'm fully qualified North Hertfordshire but no sign of the new European really my in-laws live in Baldock and they're very much new European leaders, if it was available sold out so probably no one last night on this a Johnston Press write down 40% of the value of its local paper business on Thursday now.
That is after of course I bought the I recently.
Didn't I still looking like a good move Jake but they did that they are having their their their publishing pretty upbeat figures about and think it's probably too early to say whether that's been there intelligent acquisition or not but they're the best thing.
I read about local news this week was this blog by Gareth Davies who used to work on the for Croydon Advertiser forensic Takedown of the paper and how what it's become under trinity mirror and it's really really worth Reading if you want insight into the way local news is changing and we basically he said since trinity mirror of taken over they've made us put the web first Only write stories that work online and then will print them and then he had his screengrab.
Didn't have a double page spread one which was something like 9 things you don't you understand if you lived in Croydon and the other one was 11 things you don't you understand if...
Clearly was there attempt to do it BuzzFeed rip-off button print looks
It will hurt your eyes trinity mirror they've said well actually Defender diff pretty robustly.
I would say I'm really happy and he's just bitter in the papers doing really well before very I mean reasonably underhanded comments about his they didn't reference indirectly but they suggested that he didn't have the appetite to carry on and The Newsroom which was a little underhanded I think but the overall tone of this statement was things are not as bad as Gareth is making out but he did point out that there is an EU show the screen Grabber getting a bit of his contract that said you should be writing articles that get I think is at least 1000 pageviews wasn't it and say he was saying it's actually if you're not interested in that market.
You just want to expose the stories are important to local people you have no place in a local Museum anymore.
Is that just how things are now.
There's a story just today about the Telegraph I don't worry.
You'll sort it saying that the most clicked on story in this era of lots and lots of
Was a story saying something about doomsday, and you know it was a classic clickbait story in it.
Had it didn't have sex or naked anybody did have doomsday and the end of the world and 12 cats you'll only see if things they have started all that stuff me know if that's what the public wants what they're going to Demand is it as good as talking pictures.
That's the thing.
I was nothing is as good as talking pictures charters and Caldicott on every hour potential by definition is the possibility of achieving more in the fast-paced world of digital advertising Oracle data cloud has built it's like a say on finding the signal through the noise on unlocking potential we bring together data and technology to help you better understand your audience where to best engage them and how to measure a tool to realise true potential Oracle data cloud where better outcomes begin.
Sid Oracle data cloud., to learn more right, there is just time for our Media quiz this week entitled hole-in-the-wall.
It's an honour to be much-loved really BBC game show that ran all the way from 2008 to 2009 celebrities were very tight lycra clothes on and play Tetris well there been lots of walls and enclosures discussed in the media this week.
Your job is to match the media personality or company to the wall related story best of three buzzing with your name's ojq.
Also check and Trevor your say Jake know.
I'll say trampy old is other goodies the winner gets Dale Winton the loser Anton du Beke here is grassing number one The Times newspaper.
What war related story Trevor to them this week.
They have her partly abandoned their paywall on the Times online.
Exercise a gap in the wall light pyramus and thisbe you can do you know how many stories in is per week to this point as long as you register you can now view to articles a weak Arms if you clear cache on the way through Business Insider I am too and you know I wouldn't have thought I needed that in my life, but actually it's working I guess isn't it people who really want to read it are paying for it.
When we we access it everyday.
It's I haven't still got content that you want to read and sets the agenda? To take it all to play for you now and brown sauce and no sorted for James Whale name Jake Jake Big Brother correct of Celebrity Big Brother
P&O firebrand shock jock they called in when he went in the shower I mean on BBC Essex how is between the Walled enclosure of the Celebrity Big Brother house? Have you been watching it at their favourites people voting for at least favourite the Big Brother audience wooden boot out James Whale but everything for their favorites and I think he will have more fans than the person is up against he has very few well, but we're putting a holiday and then I'll be when you did driving are they the same people watching Celebrity Big Brother on Channel 5 I suspect that although having said that the Daily Star seems to have forgotten Richard Desmond no longer owns channel.
Philip Brother on the cover every single bit good point and it is all to play for if we discount the extra point when I go to Trevor Let's Pretend It's one or he is question number three BBC iPlayer Jake so I play will no longer be completely free Quran September yes why it's quite dances people are exploiting a loophole in the licence fee which means that they can watch catch-up content on iPlayer for free without a licence fee that when rolling a loophole to be the case using iPlayer ok, so what happens in the future you log on to iPlayer and it says do you have a TV licence or they just relying on your good nature that that might happen in time for now though.
They will have to make do with some of the
Traditional monitoring methods of TV licensing so they'll be able to use their detector vans to see if you're watching the BBC Three iPlayer today the BBC iPlayer Radio app is now available worldwide is that right as from today you can listen to All BBC Radio even though it's made for the domestic market anywhere in the world.
Can you download the shows that I bet you can't I was in France and tried downloading something on the iPlayer Radio app in it won't let me edit from today.
I do some things change today.
So my digital review system says that that should be those points should be shared with the world will raise your account that don't be ridiculous.
How do you feel guilty to look wonderful BBC Three Counties Radio studio, Dunstable
If the hospital club listening to open a branch in as at least three of us that are interested otherwise, thank you know each new episode of this shows through our website hoax.
That is so 2004 if you subscribe you can get this show every fortnight as soon as it's released you can do that by the podcast app on your iPhone on Pocket Casts and now Google Play unsubscribing means you never miss an episode so for goodness sake go and do that now and has inspired by listening to the latest episode of this week well worth a listen producer is Matt Hill the media podcast is a PPM production in until next time bye.
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