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Read this: #55 - Brexit Boosts Fleet St... But For How Long? - The Media Podcast with Olly Mann

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#55 - Brexit Boosts Fleet St... But For …

Hello and welcome to the media podcast I'm only man on today's show brexit brings uncertainty and big games for Fleet Street in the latest circulation figures and there's a new paper.

That's brace yourself already making a profit.

Are there good times ahead or will reduce dad spends hit the press hard elsewhere are pundits discuss the treatment of Channel 4 news reporter Fatima manji.

What little we know about the new culture secretary and the latest attempted to bring us satire to Britain + a quiz that will leave your head spinning that sort of cam on today's Media podcast and it's summer it is honest so we're on the roof terrace at the hospital club this Friday joining me this week's a man who needs an introduction.

It's the managing director of TB in the lemonade money.

It's Faraz Osman Faraz hello.

How are you very well? Thank you.

How many Pokemon have you caught this week? I'm on level eight.

And I've got 27 I think I think I need to double check.

What's the most exotically named one that do some exploring it up the problem is whenever I fire it up.

It is because it's that silly my partner but not everybody knows it's early design app, but it's incredibly fun so speaks more clearly doesn't care about working for Google or Nintendo it's not it's not really isn't any products bought in unity.

It's not fun.

There's a tell you don't build out on unity they're all gonna die.

Ok come back this isn't tech podcast what else is taking up your time for us.

We are induction of new series of the award-winning four to the floor.

So that's keeping the office very very busy writing a little picture at the moment which is which is actually quite surprising considering.

It's summer but it's so it's good.

There's a lot of work out there and what happened to grab some of it with both hands in augmented reality or in actual life.

There's an ongoing debate about the

If it's going to create a new wave of his own to be like 3D and and be a bubble that that pop Sara quickly so we're looking into it and I'm not entirely convinced that we're going to see lots of people sitting in the living rooms wearing headsets and and immersing themselves that far but the video game the thing is amazing and alongside 4 hours this week of man who eats 12 Pokémon for breakfast in his BuzzFeed special correspondent James Ball James welcome to the media podcast.

Thank you very much a debut I believe you just in case you when I wasn't present I can be asked to download Welcome along I imagine you been very busy recently you write about news and politics.

It said we can have looked up.

I think about yesterday and realised it was sort of 4 weeks since brexit and now we've kind of been working very much all the hours, but we were kind of now.

Just slightly getting out or reward it was so the last day of term yesterday, so we had a hero puppies for city office trainee guide dogs literally just as a evil had a horrible month.

Here are some puppies.

I mean it's tricky though, isn't it? If you want to be a little jealous if you want to work in that kind of well done you want to do it online fast paced breaking news the stories.

We've been seeing her for the last month brexit trump niece Turkey new prime minister.

Corbyn everything that's kind of the stuff people live for but then I guess it.

Just also gets a bit much money.

Can you get no time to enjoy it like the political sort of stuff? We've had basically about 18 months of political news in 3 weeks.

So you're just getting warmed up for a tour around your planning.

How your day's people around them and then Andrea leadsom dropped out of the so you've got a new government in 2 days later the report of the cabinet and comes like this is great, but needs maccurtain.

I'm guessing they weren't plenty of features on their Owen Smith ready to go.

I mean it's actually amazing artists starting Smith memes.

There are so many Corbyn memes and they really are working with thin material, but they're getting their right.

Let's stick with brexit.

Sort of her first story no only sort of because one of the implications of brexit has actually been a benefit to the Press at something that we predicted in the last episode of course people of buying more papers at least in the short-term all the national titles put on readers in June putting that the hard copies aside even online James we've seen boost as well for the mail for the Guardian in the Telegraph website more people going to online news as well.

I mean that is good news.

Isn't it for the news industry? I suspect it's a big sigh of relief actually as you kind of no-one's really wanted to be talking about this but website traffic hasn't really been going up anymore and it's actually been sliding if you like most months the biggest few papers.

You know the male the Guardian even the Telegraph a bit.

I think I've had month-on-month drops slight.

You're not seeing this big side of peak traffic here anymore and so the fact that really big global new.

You can move the dial still counts but I suspect you know everyone's going to enjoy this while it lasts, but it's a month-long bounce.

It's not really change any of the underlying sort of online world or print world and so are the risk of being their miserable list in the room which is definitely my comfort zone.

It kind of doesn't change that the floor has fallen out and print advertising and circulation is gonna try and down like it's a good months, but Enjoy it While it Lasts but it's one good man, and then brexit is going to have an impact on an sales as well.

Isn't it British companies have less money it is pretty European and American a little too.

Maybe that's all come out in the wash.

I think generally reality is that no one really knows which is which is why you know the market never like on Saturday and I'm getting all very boring about the whole thing, but it's it's true that note no one really knows do you know you could argue that as powerful unit may have more brands coming in and and actually it made me feel like they've got a bit more and more into that.

Franz got a bit more than 82 best in this case don't know it's it is so tricky to say what I think is really interesting is about how the this is been pretty much the first big though.

I mean obviously there's a random it's been the first thing about that Facebook and and social media has gone on from being that whole thing that we will talk about the echo chamber is really been amplified here.

I think a lot of people were very surprised with the result because that work with the remain party because they all thought that all their friends are saying the same thing and it was it was going to happen in this is this is him fighting for already and it would only result came through it demonstrated that there is literally a real divide in online with the way, systems and and social media exist now where you got one can the same one thing another Cambuslang another thing and actually did to don't meet but it's kind of funny because it just replicates print really don't you read the Daily Express you're never got to read anything good about brexit and you know you read you read the mirror and the Guardian you do not going to read much of the opposite.

So it's kind of it's weird.

How much the Old online echo chamber is the same as the other one.

Make some really trimming the comment section is it if you go to a Guardian article about why we should remain in Europe if you look at the comments to that you know that's not going to be a lot of guardian needs to say yeah right on Owen Jones know what I mean.

It's it's such a tiny tiny tiny fraction of that comment comment on 15 different websites only go to the Guardian then they go to Daily Mail then they go to lots of places in a day.

Are we made a comment trolls effectively? I think there are very few people of the of the mainstream people that are reading BuzzFeed a reading the Daily Mail on a reading and Adidas articles that are going onto then comment about the article before minute.

I'm reading it.

I mean to jump back onto the advertising thing that I mean if if you seen the enders report that terrifying I mean they they reckon print advertising was going to go down about 12 to 15% this year the same next that was before now.

They reckon two years of 20% falling.

I mean that is nasty at which point you have to look at the alternative solutions for these traditional.

Novations to make money at the Guardian has been taken the opportunity to solicit paying members according to an all staff email sent by the editor cafe.

That's been going quite well, as I've been getting more sign ups than any other single day on the Friday after the brexit vote you think I will ever mitigate be the drop enhance Ben I mean you've got a lot of different any time anyone has tried to go this will be the answer it hasn't been at you know video answer one point we got to save everything and everyone realised video takes quite a while to produce these expensive.

It's not the one thing it's got to be online display that kind of hasn't quite worked so it's going to be a little bit of a lot of stuff and you know membership costs and revenue and I think it's giving them away to do a very very soft Slide paywall with members-only content and I suspect we're going to see a fair bit more of that from them and try and can it give it a bit of an editorial offer as well as there's just some of the donations model Wikipedia

Disney love like you if you value is content than you gotta help us pay for it, which which any Wikipedia pop up every so often you can go you that uses every day because I thought about helping us actually make it so I think they're taking lessons from now, but I think we'll be really telling and and I hope that the Guardian are setting themselves up for this but but the the App Store the App Store is interchange soon, which will allow for subscriptions and and I think that they're seeing themselves out to be a good position for that where you will get the content for free and then if you want enhance content you can pay a subscription model and if apple is saying that that's the future of the app store in the Guardian are are in a place where they are moving towards subscriptions rather than paywalls.

We we could see that being very successful model or it could be that the future of the press is in popup newspapers.

There is evidence to back this up this week the launch.

I'm laughing as they say it's because it seems ridiculous, but it's working apparently the launch of the new European at 4 hours.

What is the new European

Is a newspaper for for remainers I guess it is kind of what it's what is classed as Satan the 49% of people who are who are upset or it's not here 48.48% It's an interesting idea and actually look at some of the papers that classiclean were created a general created out of a political movement and and this is our Generations political movement, so it's not surprising that the European exists if feels like it's a magazine idea of the newspaper ideas, so it will know if it came out as a monthly like the New Statesman or economist piece that I think it might have might have some longevity to it, but interesting idea.

I haven't seen it if I'm being brutally honest seen it on the new standard.

Have you seen it around I have five and we've actually bought in the office both copies some BuzzFeed boys newspapers.

We actually have newspaper delivery so pretty.

Like comfort, I think the the old people in The Office which is over about 28.

It's just like a little comfort blanket, but I mean I'm completely baffled by I quite like it.

You know living Islington of course I like it but the 48% with generally kind of gone outside of Liberal day, urban their younger.

This is not people who are going to get a lifelong newspaper have it and so I think it's quite cute as it is quite good idea its editorial, is it looks alright? But I mean they say it makes a profit selling they reckon 40000 at 2 quid a copied.

It's mainly a cover price proposition.

So that's what 100 grand a week.

You're not going to make that much of their are you but what do they hear our chat the publishers are saying this proves is the case for pop-up newspapers in if you catch the national mood and you get out there quickly with a quick-release.

I suppose this work with the TV programme capitalise on that I love the Pop-Up idea.

I just don't know why we're still printing it onto your dad tree.

I just it's never going to connect with Sally O'Malley about as young as any.

Newspaper Generations ever going to be able to grab you're not going to get today's 21 year olds into a newspaper have that you might get them into paying for content you said he might get them into quality content you're not can I get them to pay for this? I don't know why we have to still keep printing think another 4 hours with the routine was the Sunday Times Sunday Times I do with a genius.

Let's do the press for one more story at the investigative new site Xsara close down on Wednesday this was days after their own and use Potter had maintained.

They were Open For Business in an interview with press Gazette at they just sacked the site editor James tell us a bit about exora for those who haven't actually have a logged on that mean they basically do investigations that mean exclusively investigations and they never really hit any kind of actual revenue model but they had some sort of pretty decent people yeah, especially David hankies family of the Guardian it was run by Mark what I mean.

The name for the child sex abuse stuff and I think they actually drove fair bit of criticism for some of how they did that it was almost campaign group in places, but when they started it, they had these ideas that it was also gonna run almost like a data agency.

So they were trying to build this big insolvency database and hired a bunch of Solid 21 year old investigative journalist.

Sorry, I don't like data journalist to build this thing and then just never turned into a product and then I think almost her a victim of their own big story because it took all our attention it was complex thing and so it turned almost in something more like the bureau of investigative journalism kind of something that's using money to produce side of investigative content but never building a business around it.

So it's always sad to see something close, but I mean I really they have no model at all and it's particular to the internet for ASDA's in telly and I know you do multi platform stuff, but predominantly you're a TV company that that's not how it works.

Is it like for the beginning of

If indeed you have to tell him best as we have to tell people this is our business model.

This is how we plan to make money somehow if if your business model revolves around the internet.

There's still this feeling of yeah, but one day Bill Gates or buy it yeah, I mean I think that's the new media startups have gone around the idea of building an audience first and then kind of figuring out with a revenue model is II which which have worked for a lot of a lot of companies in that space, but I think when it comes to content that you have to build the content first and and and and get all the eggs afterwards.

It's so that's that's the model that wear in it's either.

We need to make quality products that people want to come and watch and listen to or read whatever it might be and that's when we get our orders from says that's not quality and it's not clear as to what your proposition.

Is there that you never gonna get your audience and and that's it, so I can get it might be a little bit neater more than anything else.

You know I'd love to run a business.

Where will we could just have an idea and and just run with it and not worry about the revenue stream, but but as as mentioned making videos expensive and we need to make sure that we have customers for it sounds like the Queen's about to drop.

Amazon order from helicopter above us just well state we're on the subject games where you one of those people who did actually read eggs, are we be sad to see it go in terms of actually be journalism your Reading or did you never actually 8? I have to say I was with I felt a bit uncomfortable towards a later stage.

I think I did some very good and valuable work on a child sex exploitation story, but it felt perhaps to me like it editorially started to cross a little towards witch-hunting and I think you know some of the people wear the police then completely cleared them.

There was a real reticence to drop back and almost got a little conspiratorial and I think maybe that hurts of the other good works that they've done with doing in that you know if you cross over it then hertz of credibility on at the story so I think they dier tackles a really tough issues, where people don't like to trade and they deserve a lot of credit for that, but I think they ended up and quite an uncomfortable position editorially.

Good no model so you know I think you're no good on them trying ok toothbrush check microphone check novelty t-shirt with the phrase.

It's the death of linear television written on the back and front check listener.

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Thanks now back to the show right.

Let's cover the other stories doing the rounds this week Channel 4 and ITN of complaint to ipso about Kelvin Mackenzie is comments in the sun at his column published on Monday asked why the award-winning reporter Fatima manji was covering the deadly attack in this last week from the Channel 4 studios in McKenzie's article he asked was it appropriate for her to be on camera when they have been yet another shocking slaughter by a Muslim imaginator retorted in an opinion piece pointedly for the Liverpool Echo no fan of the sun or Kevin McKenzie of course I quote the truth.

I confess I pissed on Kelvin Mackenzie the parent ambitions to force anyone who looks a little different.

Bath screens and I'll keep doing it now as you're a Muslims obviously not allowed to have an opinion on this because it's about Muslims and seems to be fighting against what do you make of all of this? Would it be the heating on think about this is obviously Ludacris the idea that Kelvin Mackenzie is is in anyway suggesting that he has any authority in in what makes ethical journalism and end if it's obviously laudable with with things that he's done his past and in addition to that.

There's a kind of noise level of stupidity about the fact that you are Muslims are underrepresented in a new charity few of them and and they should be in Courage than not not have a white middle class people who have rung newspaper such a long time suggesting that they shouldn't have opportunities in reporting big news stories.

It's just absolutely awful, but in addition to that there is also a Feeling for me that would get into this point with and you know it's obviously it's obviously easy to draw parallels to what's going on with Donald Trump and what's going on with Louise mention what's going on with?

I forgot her name was the name they Mail columnist Katie Hopkins I know what is a really nice moment where I forgot Katie Hopkins names for a split second remember as well, but these people are writing things for sensationalism to get clickbait is what is this is click button and it will get will pass and it'll be a will be an outrage and then we'll forget about it and it will come onto the next thing and if this just feels like another one of those things where it's like let's outrage everybody let's get loads of people with kind of giving me lots of attention and therefore buying my newspaper reading my article and then it goes around that cycle again the my terrible thing is though it's you know what damage is this going to cause we cannot be discouraging a diversity of voices in news journalism and that's exactly what's gonna happen here.

I suppose you could make the case though and not softer tones than cover Mackenzie did that it's my evil Channel 4 News to pretend it isn't a statement on this particular issue by the way of Islamic terrorists, but it isn't a statement to put a woman in headscarf writing a news program.

That is.

What are the same way that you would argue that Trevor McDonald was a political statement about him being a black anchor on the news A10 when ITV today and if anybody wants to suggest to me that that doing that was a bad idea in in the 80s.

You know I'm happy to take for a drink with you later on if it's just it's absolutely this and I think the problem that we have is not go back to what I was saying earlier about how Muslims are underrepresented and you did a lot of diversities under a percentage in different ways, you know you have an underactive patient of the disabled community of an under-representation of the Chinese community and of the black community when it comes to mainstream music journalism say Channel 4 doing this is it is a good positive thing and it's particularly important when let's be honest there are significant amount of negative news stories about Muslims that happened on the news and having that delivered by people that are from a more diverse workforce suggests that there are people from the other side as well.

Unit with the figures are 0.0001 percent of the Muslim community have any sort of sympathy with with this that you ladies deterrent.

Steve so we need to show more positive faces of that faith and and likewise across all Communities if you want to jump on Calvin mackenzie's logic as well.

You know someone of the same ethnic group as violent attacker shouldn't reporter mate.

You're pretty much.

Can I have to fire every white man in news because an annual read about your boyfriend cried have had to have said that Trevor McDonald could never I've reported on an African Warlord men like most of the white light the logic is just battling the Inca herein as well as racist and unpleasant but it's just I don't I think is Kelvin Mackenzie wants to so do it idiotic throwbacks to ATS racism.

That's up to him.

You know he did most of it the 8th S2 I think your questions are the Sons edit azzido for Tony Gallagher and his team.

Why did they publish it while they're trying to stand by it cos I just cannot comprehend wedding so when standing but no comment move said that's not sending back from the Sun suspected as a business goes back to what you're saying earlier about brexit is the problems.

We have at the moment news journalism that actually if you don't run it as a business what Kelvin Mackenzie said what Kevin McKenzie did mean that we're talking about here and fortunately that means a lot of people going to go and read the article and it gonna be lot sizing based around it.

It makes business sense to be outrageous like this and that's a problem.

Let's talk about Channel 4 news and their response then James it seems they actually asked the Liverpool Echo to feature manages column was that a good idea bomet that is politically loaded as well.

Yes, I mean you've always been a little bit more willing to tweak the tail and sort of you now babe little bit bossy sometimes and I think that sort of part of the joys broadcast but I think if they've done anything corporate if they just tried something like a son no comment or one I handed statement.

It would have been a really bad signal.

Fatimah was out on her own and I actually think they've been really commendable in coming out absolutely full throated defending The integrity of their report.

And her right to be on there and I think if they hadn't have done it energetically it would have been almost a former complicity.

I so I think they have absolutely been the right done the right thing to stand by their staff very visibly because I think when you do have such issues getting diversity in newsrooms in getting the news the people who sell of telling used to look like the country to not back someone and whose kind of in that position really visibly sends a horrible signal and so yeah, maybe it's a bit cheeky maybe it's olive I could see it annoying your traditional to he feels he should be very button down and adult but no screw it and throws it.

Do you agree with that just for the point if you if you were running Channel 4 News would you be taking this not on this issue, but this line of a neutral in broadcast but non broadcast Media we have Jon Snow ranting about Gaza or in this case video blogs and articles defending.

Strongly Fatima it does get clickbait as well, but it does slightly undermine their neutrality pants when they're on a 50 things to unpack lyrics the first is it and and possibly the most important is that you Channel 4 News have responsibilities to their staff and ensuring that they are in the world looked after this.

Is you that you are a face of the other Brand and it's important that they take that with a level of respect and and ensure that those people are protected when you're attacked and and this is exactly what happened to you think the Channel 4 need to do everything they can to ensure that both her as an individual and the wider community and the radiants are correctly on the question of the neutrality you know if if Cathy Newman came out and made him someone like you, but she's done this week.

She came out very strongly pro Corbyn video on the internet.

Is that ok what I think that week? We have to allow journalist to have their own voice and we can't stop that now with with social Media existing the idea that once you sign up to be a journalist for a broadcast News Network need to you.

No longer can have an opinion that.

Just not viable and you can either put your fingers in your ears and and ignore it or you can you know you can just allow that to happen allow people to have their own characters for the BBC don't do that basically you BBC News you have to be bland or screen unless you're in Strictly Come Dancing you can before I think I think that's that's got the problem with with the BBC and and how they can continue to it to move their new journalism forward an annual day are respected for their impartiality.

That's why you go to them but the reality is that channel 4 as a brand of the news brand is respected because it has that level of character that means that you continue to go back to as a result of it.

I think it's it's it shouldn't be the same across the board and having an that's why we are blessed this country to have that plurality of Media but but it is I think in this instance.

It is absolutely necessary and I would hope and I would say this I would hope it's the same thing happened to a let my cousin's a journalist and she's a lot of work for BBC if she was attacked like this.

I would hope the BBC would come out and defend her just as strongly as Channel 4 have in this instance because we should not be leaving EP

That much they should feel confident about the job that they do and I'm not be demonizing attacks along the way let's move on to talk about the new culture secretary Karen Bradley not a name that many of us were whispering about before James who is you so I mean it's a big promotion for an it's good sign that Theresa May's very very loyal to her home office ministers, because I mean Karen Bradley was a very junior minister.

She wasn't even a minister of state in the Home Office she came up through the whips and did so the two years in the Home Office I actually I looked up her record in Hansard when she was appointed.

She's never once said the word BBC in parliament and she preferred to channel for precisely once when she was answering a question about yarlswood, so it's not as if there's anything 2.2 to say she has a deep and abiding interest in culture Media or supporter or regulating any of them so it feels a little bit like she's been given the fun cabinet jobbers.

Kind of reward for loyalty you know very very few people from the home office failed to get in the cabinet.

So yes it suggests perhaps that Theresa May doesn't have huge plans or ambitions for something she wants to accomplish in the dcms.

I may end up regretting this but it feels as if she just wants a steady as she goes I have other things to focus on right now agenda actually for as that might mean the media briefing size relief after the last year waiting to see what we can go was going to do yeah.

I'm anything that there's there's a collective cheer went up when when John whittingdale left his post and every few sounds of here within particular in the Broad cross-sector, so it said that that I guess is it is a good thing.

I think that you know what we need to do it, but you to look at his whether or not this signal's the idea that it was almost too much meddling in in that space in it in a time when there are concerns around the corner meaning of the sounds of the sea around brexit.

There are concerns around the NHS there are concerns about the police force there goes around the prison service.

Did you know Jimmy Olsen

Need to be starting a fight with with the media with with the media world as well and an actually if you look at media and sport in particular that that apartment is is very positive Force for the Britain right now and he come up to the Olympics minutes wasn't that position the euros but have you come up to the Olympics I think it will give a bit of a bounce in in the census in the sense of a kind of British pride is it were a nothing? That's what they're hoping for so you kind of want a safe pair of hands.

That's not going to rock the boat around that too much in NFU can put in the argument that she's got some training wheels on and is it catching up with this industry in figuring out who they are and what they represent that kind of constor that process a little bit longer, but I do I do I think we might be making it later, but I do worry slightly for Channel 4 cos it's going to make some more uncertainty for then because I never really got a fair answer is 2 what the hell the Tory government want to do with them and privatisation.

Do you think people there now thinking well privatisation seems to be off the agenda?

Adviser said on Radio 4 that it was all done whittingdale idea and I don't mean you know we we are Rab supplies Channel 4 now and I I don't know if it's the shows that we make would have just the same chance of getting on our if if there's a Channel 4 was privatise.

I can't see that shows someone shows that we make at the moment for channel for appearing on channel 5 for instance.

There are sometimes a little bit too.

What's the word niche horror horror bit of the Coffin with final cut them down a bit too niche or a bit too out there and and so we can celebrate Channel 4 in in giving us a chance of that space.

Where are you going against it but do you think Channel 4 think all new person in government? Hopefully this won't happen now.

We just don't know it's just it's another level of uncertainty, but it doesn't feel like there is as much as much aggression and if that's the right word but only has as much of a push to shake things up.

I need to be able to use this as I've always said we've got a good polarity in in TV media in this country and that she continued I do feel we should just do you know how maybe a brief moment Sila

Career advisors passing casino poker how many times has he going to be passed over for that culture secretary job and now he's out altogether.

I'll probably director-general in xx actually someone in dcms for a long time because generally how many people did did they ask they have any ministers have the side of Arts figures ever actually still have liked and felt wasn't a philistine.

So maybe he went native.

I think that you have to remember that he was supporting Michael Gove and his and his supremacy quite quite strongly and and you know I don't know if this is a conspiracy theory about him being punished for that whatever it might be but but I do you like I was quite dispatch.

The moment was a little bit disappointed with with them.

We would a kind of Supporting somebody that that was going to have an impact on on an industry that that does Trader broadened and does no need to have us to being a year not as much of a torn country is Leicester

Newspaper obviously that helps maybe Michael Gove would have brought back is sketch show with David Baddiel I like to assume that would really help television.

I would love to see the Archives of that.

There is one 3 minute clip and almost nothing else.

It was a full series.

Yeah, I'd love to talk about this announcement leaps out Dave have commissioned Avalon to build a John Oliver style show for their channel is give me hosted by Matt for the comedian former new labour advisor the guy who does the applicable party podcast highly recommended if you don't listen to do for UKTV what last week tonight has done for HBO now for as Avalon produce last week tonight in the States and is a great show and you know you watching you can kind of see what they've learnt in the UK from producing things like TV Burp as well, and they brought it over there that said knowing what Dave spends on TV budgets.

I wonder whether you're going to have a team of shoprite has like they do on John Oliver's shaving able to produce anything similar is Matt for yes, it's a last week tonight is by far the best political satire show it certainly in the US probably in the world right now.

It's it is an ex incredibly returning it delivered by an absolute comic genius.

This is a difficult thing to do.

It is not the first time.

It's been attempted to Marcus Brigstocke I think it was had a show on BBC Four around around fiscal satire where they were trying to do similar things that the Daily Show and jumpsuit with try and do it as I'm didn't really work and are all 7 login as well on Channel 4 live and and not that didn't quite Landis as highly as I expected it to when I I think that the the issue that we have here is that our political satire is different Have I Got News For You is an amazing show its incredible protocol satire show I don't think the same sort of thing would work in the US for instance that the US have a long heritage of desk shows of one person sitting behind a desk and Tiny Pop politics and the media and and it's been incredibly successful.

They they have it on almost V

Different user network network the broadcast networks and it's it's a great stuff, but they also have a much much more polarizing Media community and an actually if you look at John Oliver if you look at John Stuart a lot of that is sending up what's going on on Fox News what's going on on CNN and what's going on in use at work, so we don't have that here because we don't have the same.

You know it's exactly I think I think that days if you can be more of a struggle and I think the thing around not being able to broadcast promise question time as well and that being a bit being in issue.

Means that there going to be a lack of British material around the space industry that James because I did some listeners won't be aware of this because when I said you can't broadcast pmqs.

I think we can watch every Wednesday but you can't broadcast in a comedy contact and is one of the most stupid British legislation that has very little reason to still exist and almost no prospect of being changed.

I mean I don't there's a load study politics if people watches much politics.

I do you'll know it took about 3 years for them to agree slightly better camera angles in The Commons chamber now you occasionally get to see almost at dispatch Box level instead of always from above which is quite nice but ISOFIX position and the MPs hated it there were so against the introduction.

They were tripping filmmakers iPlayer cameraman as they were doing it.

You can only use footage from Parliament anywhere in Parliament including async select committees which honestly I comedy Gold these days boxset seriously, but you can only use it for anything that steam factual news or current affairs you can't use it at all the comedy under the licensing rules and of course it only applies on TV it doesn't stop Cassetteboy already one of her.

You know numerous other people messing with the footage online but if you want to do anything on television, you just get no rights at all.

No exceptions no footage from parliament and given that that's where most of our set pieces happened.

I mean.

Clips that you would want to show this week if you were Have I got news for you or whatever the D-Day shows cold would be Theresa May at the dispatch box so suddenly channeling Margaret Thatcher in the hair and it's the most terrifying she slows down.

She puts a note standard leans in like I wonder how many times you practice that in a mirror that morning but that would be your short and you work that studies the political lot one-liner is a week.

You can't use it and so you're really got the struggle unless you really make a gimmick of it, but you need some budget to do that reshoot it with actors or but they're not gonna have that again.

I just take a very simple be on this isn't it? Just about budget.

I'm going to rephrase my first question to you again.

Isn't it the case that HBO truck loads of money at John Oliver show and all they said they will get the smartest writer straight out of Harvard all they do for a year.

No one ever really properly fully commit to that in the UK that's why our utmost of uplift was that such as honest don't worry now with back on you and said the Last Leg I think the last leg of the political satire shows that sort of wood.

So it is been a real triumphing in this basin and actually that's where the composition is here.

It's not actually you know John Oliver and Trevor Noah bless him.

You know it is it is going to be the last leg and it is going to be Have I got news for you.

So it is it is possible, but if you look at like some great podcasts like including things like answer me this and and and obviously but you know you look at no such thing as a fish in and it is possible to get to get lo-fi copyright as we do it very well in this country and and generally we don't have writers rooms here.

We have one or two incredibly good strong comedians and and strong writers that they are able to come to make it work, so it's gonna be closest isn't it because of this kind of thing and that's Charlie's head and and and I think he works for couple of rice is on that there is there is no sense of it a big writersroom in this country is sometimes it causes problems.

I think that Top Gear for instance needs a right as room and that's why that reboot hasn't really worked but I think it's so that there are lots of good.

Star Talent the Works his country that that doesn't need that because I know their own personality and they are very good at the comic timing definition is the possibility of achieving more in the fast-paced world of digital advertising Oracle data cloud has built it's like a seat on finding the signal through the noise on unlocking potential we bring together data and technology to help you better understand your audience where to best engage them and how to measure a tool to realise true potential Oracle data cloud web better outcomes begin visit Oracle data cloud., to learn more right before we go there is just time for our Media quiz this week entitled to the wheel of misfortune with apologies to Mark Radcliffe on the wheel before me appear on the roof terraced are the names of several people who work in the media or should I say work to because they have recently had their job type.

Change your job friends is to tell me which job they've left and you get a bonus point if you know what they have plans next to spins each the winner gets an all inclusive holiday to the loser gets a staycation Faraz let's spin that wheel good spin my goodness that's going very very fast blue red pink god.

It's just a matter of rainbow right slowing down here.

We go any second now and here we go question one the wheel has landed on Colin Murray and it said he left TalkSport correct because it's been bought or it's it's had a investment for always at work with the sun listen to it's got a partnership with the sun according to Colin Murray statement.

He's leaving talkSPORT because Rupert Murdoch's news corp has bought the parent company of talkSPORT portrait of the wireless company and Colin Murray in sort of solidarity with the people of Liverpool over Hillsborough says he will not work for news corp interesting isn't it? Seems to me?

This may have only just come about because it became clear the extent of the links between the sun and talk radio talkSPORT as a brand that they had planned I mean as I am wonder if it was just being owned by news corp.

Whether you have such strong objections.

I mean it's not face tie up isn't it? I mean it is quite a sensible thing to do if you're going to buy talkSPORT is to joining up with the song the sun has been paying a fortune for online Sports rights and doing nothing with them really.

I mean it's a clever tired, but I can see why you might want to walk away from here.

If you feel is Colin Murray does so bed later.

Yeah, I think if the sun do decide to kind of reboot the sun radiator member son talk with jungle.

It was very shortly wasn't it? Was they spend a lot of money on those studio.

They wanted to work in radio.

Give me something to do your timing radio zu live Billy Woods we would occasionally listen to that so it would be compelling.

What would he be wearing their last time for you to do a spin James

Barefoot, please sing what's the job? She's left and I'm planning to do so she's taking a little time away from the House of Lords directly she's most helpful to stand aside but some cheese I'm off to Google isn't she had of diversity which specific yes, I think she wasn't the message an A4 Audi A4 that yeah, I think that it was a good it was a good high for Channel 4 and I think that she did a good job there.

I'm a little confused about this.

I'll be honest because I don't really understand considering that YouTube don't make any of its own content and what time is YouTube red stuff, but they didn't really at this could be moving to that space.

I don't know but it said if the platform is traditionally been democratize Innocence anybody can upload anything see that so so maybe it is trying to find you Communities to to reach out to that.

Phone back.

I think it's a little bit more abstract and her Channel 4 Rolanda son is the son of one of those some of fake democratic things so they choose a lot of people to promote and bring in and featuring their own staff and kind of promoting YouTube Stars and helping them sort of fun ways to monetize.

They do quite a lot play at work with the big names, but then you know I wonder also shall have a bit of a role in The hiring diversity Deckers have a Silicon Valley is pretty notoriously bad for it and you know you get the impression with within a king that if it sits there looking for someone to help a token effort or to have them so that they handling I don't think she'll be that person.

I think she will probably call them out if they screwed up, so it's it seemed to fully bald hire for them, but I think it's quite useful to have somebody that's so ingrained with the political establishment in the UK to the YouTube to make that higher it may have some usefulness later on that the use would you like to spin the wheel again?

Ok with settling on Chris Evans what is the job? He's left aware of the job that he had and then he left them maybe maybe you've got in his car and driven off.

We just got taxi.

Yes, he's a Top Gear he has everybody in the world news on the BBC News at Ten it without the story of actually the first post brexit story almost his left update he's gone and it's because I'm bearing in mind the BBC world going to push him.

I think I think that I mean fair play to I think he recognise that it was it was becoming an uphill struggle.

I think once the reaction to the first show came out he had to turn around and I think that the more that people have looked at that show what it what it can be the more they looked at their secondary players and and who deal with Rory even Matt LeBlanc is you kind of it's it's been clear that actually it's not crystal shining through on that show it's actually some II

So so fair play to him to come stepping aside and making sure that they get a fair shot cos I think that's what that show needs it need some some new faces that we haven't seen presenting stuff on the BBC before giving us a fresh set of eyes in fish at hands on the steering wheel is it worth ok? What we doing pretty well you both got your points.

It's 3 to 34 hours because you did say that Chris is going to Radio 2 even though he's gonna stay at least 3.24 hours to to James it's it's all to play for in intaglio manufactured way time to spin the wheel one final time James more like a real than the sound of a tree using it goes and it's landed on Roger ailes is landed on Roger ailes well.

Yes a lot of people say Roger ailes is the guy who set up Fox News I mean the most powerful Rupert Murdoch's lieutenants for his entire career.

It's been the cash cow it's been the influence.

Pedlar like you just never ever thought you would see the back of him.

He he basically ran the Republican party through his office as a fox like you cannot there is just no way to say what a huge figure.

He was in the US media and he's gone and it's in the midst of firm a whole bunch of sexual harassment suits and foxes usually been so good at set me anything.

Just keeping everything out the headlines, but one of the Sword of honour stars managed to solid made a complaint publicly filed it and then lots and lots of other people piled on and essentially the sensors always been in Murdoch anales didn't get on as well as they used to and you know Rupert Murdoch and is very late 80s was trying to encourage this sad man in his early 70s that it was time to retire and so there wasn't perhaps a huge degree of warms about trying to ride this one out but ales has severe.

Very very good contractual clauses he could have tried to take Talent within you could have tried to do all sorts of things that so they seem to have negotiated an exit sandales has resigned it will need it for the legal bills by the sale is rumoured to be about 40 million dollars and I'll be very surprised if it didn't also come with legal indemnity so that fox can now quietly settle any of these suits that would be what I would suspect but you know it's is in his 70s.

I suspect it will go and enjoy spending a bit of it and maybe maybe a little bit of Republican Party consulting with grand total to 43 James you've won the media quiz.

I look forward to my lovely surprise.

It was excited as a new executive Fox News fair and balanced.

That is also for today.

My thanks to you James and also to Faraz Osman hello to all you new listeners welcome to the Independent home with media comment if you subscribe to this show and if you're not doing that why not then you get this show every single fortnite as soon as

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Should you use that and subscribing means you'll never miss an episode so go and do that this episode is dedicated to Brian Bromley Matt Arnold Harry peak and Donna migori other things at the time to take out a voluntary subscription in the words of Disraeli I have an unusual Sensation if it is not indigestion.

It must be gratitude join us keep us on the air at vmedia / dedicate been Olly Mann the producer Matt Hill the media podcast is a PPM production until next time I've got plans for the long weekend.

You could get your friends round for drinks maybe even your first barbecue of it's not too chilly.

Why not don't forget the brancott estate Marlborough Sauvignon Blanc from reading.

They said was too chilly for growing but the pioneering winemakers of brancati.

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