Read this: #51 - BBC Charter Renewal, Bauer Buys Beacon, C4 Privatisation

Hello and welcome to the media podcast hygiene cancer sitting in for Holly man on today show John whittingdale.

Reveals his white paper on the next 11 years for the BBC with arguments over independence regulation and star salaries brewing we discuss a historic moment for The Corporation + the new day closes the Independent makes its first prophets in a decade Robert Peston plays consequences and we play a music quiz to end all media quizzes.

That's always come on today's Media podcast and joining me on a sunny Friday morning at the hospital club is media writer Maggie Brown and the director of the Edinburgh International television festival Lisa Campbell lies a busy week for you.

Yes, we had a big launch this week, and we announced our McTaggart speaker so very exciting it is the founder and CEO of vice Media Shane Smith

Yeah, I'm I hope so, I think her it unit is a fascinating Brandi minutes gone from an obscure.

Sort of alternative magazine to a global Media powerhouse really in the space of two decades the fascinating story about the brand.

I think will be lots of interesting stuff to talk about in terms of its journalism advertising revenue distribution how it's now actually getting into bed with a TV world, so it'll be weeks before the launch of Iceland in the UK so I think he don't help ill certainly be provocative generating headlines probably yes, I mean he's having his quote was something like this year will be a bloodbath.

So he I mean I think a recent event he went on stage and lay down and joined a band joined him and saying in that kind of thing I'm hoping you won't do that.

See you didn't think that you should have done is the old garden Kevin lygo will be there anyway because of course the famous controller sessions do inner invite all of those channel bosses, so we'll be getting his Vision

Try TV and you know and and his plans with his new team and also we have the leaders Debate and that's where we have all the channel buses from the various channels talking about the big picture stuff, so we'll have two doses of Kevin as it is a bit of a session with ice at the moment in the broadcasting industry do feel that Maggie think it's really good because it's a new entrants and I also think that they'd go to places that time off in the conventional Media Router bit too scared to go to or because it has a different perspective it isn't actually doing current affairs or news or whatever you want to call it from the perspective of just one country and I think that that makes a difference and it's captured young people's imaginos.

Yeah, I think that is a really interesting thing isn't it? It's the way they targeted and retain millennials and that is the another big Challenge for the big media players who have to work within the constraints of ofcom's in pyjamas Heroes on TV right though, so that will be interesting to see how they tackle that ok.

And really the biggest story of the past year.

It's the BBC charter renewal as expected most of the extreme policy suggestions have evaporated but the white paper John whittingdale revealed on Thursday is not lightweight the BBC Trust will be pinned in favour of a new unitary board and Ofcom regulation more on that in a moment.

They also changes the iplayers remit BBC Studios was given the Greenlight top Talent will have to reveal their pay and adcms has found 60 million pounds down the back of the sofa 4 more kids and Arts programs guys.

I wondered if I could just get your initial reaction good or bad for the BBC this whitepaper well.

It's basically good because the BBC has an assured 11 year term not 10 years and I'm now I would not enough in the toothed remember times when people wanted even shorter charters and then 10 years so this is a good outcome if the BBC is talking about survival it also has an in.

Text linking a licence for you know that doesn't mean very much at the moment because we hardly have an inflation if that was in deflationary times, but nonetheless it has the knowledge that the licensee will no longer be frozen which it has been since 2010 plus it also has the additional household growth that were obviously going to have and continue having because our population is growing so much so on those fronts which are the crews showed how the BBC One look at the world do we have the money is the licence fee continuing? It's even going to still be a criminal offence not to pay have we got in the short-term their home and dry, but there are a lot of details in here which include a whole new licensing regime for the BBC Ofcom is a well-regarded regulator but it does not have the competence at the moment to regulate the BBC show the whole regime is going to have to be rethought now.

We know that that was going to be the case because the current system.

Been shown to be very very faulty and if all of the things work out and the new regime stops a lot of the abuses that will actually be good for the BBC if a lot of the changes proposed including very radical ones about the whole of the BBC's commissioning 780 million pounds of in-house production being up for grabs if all of those things happen beneficially than the BBC maybe in a very strong position and you've mentioned on them in those matters of things to talk about if everything works out the BBC is in an extremely strong position, but there are an awful.

Lot of question marks that will raise that I sat down and I read the whole thing yesterday and I found myself a very severe location because I thought you not obviously I'm coming here.

Why should people listen to me if I haven't done my homework, but I mean moments when I cast for example of Cornwall

Able to find the BBC if it doesn't actually adhere to its licence agreements and I thought goodness me you know if it doesn't do what enough for broadcasters currently I know but when you're absolutely in Oldbury rating I understand that but it has done that remember over the abuses of phone voting thoughtful big shows so I don't I don't think that's it is and what I'm trying to say is that when you actually see it in a white paper that you can find the BBC Ofcom I kinda thought well now really gonna fascinating week that hasn't it? Because it was like this great drama under the unfolding drama with 13 overfilling as the central character of of Unionist politician and and you know this kind of idea of dreadful was going to happen and you know as as whittingdale, then described it.

It was in a hysterical speculation by left-wing.

Love it.

So that's the whole thing kind of ended in a bit of a

Annoyed that moment getting involved in everything it then felt like a bit of a doll ending to the drama with them, but probably this time of the lending that everyone wanted.

They don't really want this the radical proposals that you know this huge Shrinking of the BBC and size and Scope so it was probably the best ending we could of had a new doctor Foster than that sounds like it's a win for the BBC but I do think in it as he says there are still major areas of concern and I think I think of complaint is a good one.

You know the fact that the BBC trust was more of a Watchdog and it was it was very much from the perspective of of the public and end of this deliver public value.

When was Ofcom as well as much more about the market and the commercial impact so you know if does that mean the priorities are going to be what's the impact on Sky what's the impact on ITV so you know that's that's something.

I think I've never said that if it works.

It will actually benefit the BBC

There is the side of me which just doesn't know if the BBC can be more focused in what is a rapidly changing world.

I mean you've just talked about the mactaggart lecture of being from vice something you know 10 years ago that would have didn't exist it would not have happened so if the BBC emerges from this in a stronger position even maybe with the national Audit Office doing I know this is a bone of contention.

It's going to be given overseas one of the things that legally independent but I actually having read national Audit Office reports in the past not all of them getting a lot of publicity for example.

They did a very good report on how the BBC round it's soaps and continually dramas and came out with virtually glowing report that it was all done incredibly efficiently get it already done because they don't have unfettered access today what I'm saying is that this is this is the other side of this that if it stops the kind of digital media initiative Costa

100 million pounds if it stops utterly wrong payoffs, are you if it stops those kind of abuses then it's actually in everyone's interest that this should happen including the BBC if there is something wrong with its regular out about the BBC Four leaves at some of the proposals that are a bit more insidious.

I think whittingdale did such a ham fisted job over this whole thing that nobody we are including Channel 4 which will come onto nobody really trust him anymore.

I think he's got a real problem a trust so when this white paper comes out instead of people saying yes, we know that the trust doesn't work.

We know that has to be a new body.

They they immediately assume the very worst this is been planned and I can't really give very much benefit of the doubt anything that comes out of that department so I actually hear what the cause minutes.

Ears and the BBC are saying about this and I would prefer yes, that'll be an absolutely independent BBC bored because because it isn't the same as the trust it is of a new body and it really just have to be pregnant to editorial will be closer, but they're going to have a real problem structuring all of this but it will be and what we need to know is that the BBC is not a state broadcaster.

It is an independent broadcaster and saw the bigger issues like Talent pay the suggestion is in in reports and briefings have had is that David Cameron and Downing Street has intervened on many of the big issues and actually helped create this Malvern handed report that we have yesterday.

Yes, I think that that's that's worked in the BBC's favour.

Yeah definitely I think speculation was that Talent pay would be published at the level of 150000 and that's moved up to 450.

Thousand, which I think this song is about 10 stars are falling star probably have a guess at who they already heard anything.

I think we have here.

Yeah.

They normally Fiona Bruce Dimbleby I mean we could go onto the independents and how we just going to you know it's true that really because the nao reports to MPs on the you know the national Audit committee.

So that is this going to be a student finance and audit committee.

Is it is a kind of a government department then within a for the BBC and so therefore any kind of creative risk taking us with a big changes that BBC wants to do could be then seeing as a waste of money.

I'm in agree with Maggie's point completely has been incredibly awful examples of ways to months of being in the BBC I think there's a EastEnders

REdesign of the definition of all this week 3 years well.

Sorry more than two years behind schedule a problem that needs to be looked at but you know whittingdale is going on so much about distinctiveness and if you don't got a government department essentially saying oh, no never been counting that going to be a waste of money.

I mean really how can you then deliver this this creates a risk taking decisions that he's really stressing and a couple of big wins for a lobbying groups and Industry contestable funding kids campaigners have been asking that for that for a long time and additional pot money that commercial broadcasters could potentially dip intercourse BBC studios where the BBC is be last now to drop all commissioning quotas for in-house the most striking is actually this 8 million pounds a year being devoted to creating 150 jobs for local Media journalist switch the newspaper publishes the nma have been able to

I find that pretty incredible really I knew that something of that order was happening, but when you actually see it in cold print and it's going to be based in Birmingham and they're going to be finding out across all the different courts and local authorities in the country and providing some kind of Central resource that newspapers.

Can I access I find that a really interesting on the contest will my theory is that im actually Highfield who runs the Johnston Press was one of the advisors to whittingdale on this whole white paper and across before that he worked at the BBC running.

It's sad new technology wing suits extreme well placed on that was having said that I mean it has been something that James Harding has conceded way back in September but it is it's an area if you if those of us who remember history over the past 10 Years the BBC wanted to move into ultra low.

Call television and provide a kind of service somewhat like this which if they've been clever and they boosted their local radio stations with extra staff.

They could probably got a way with the website that they'd had to do it in there and sort of inimitable.

Where is Iran from Birmingham does the new trust intervened and stopped it dead, but now it's kind of come back but in a different iteration because of the democratic deficit and so on the one hand it is a form of snot top slicing cos it's within the BBC's control, but it is a form of diverting funds away from the Central Business I would say that being a broadcaster the on on the contestable funding it so it's a very small amount and it's a relatively small amount.

It's only for 3 years ago and it's money that's already there because it was taken from previous attempts under the last ch.

Should be meant to pay for extra things what I don't understand.

I am I am all in favour of extra funds for children's television most certainly and France for that matter and I would adding religion to which I think has been deeply deeply are ignored by certainly commercial broadcasters public service broadcasters when I don't know if it's all very well if your children's television accessing the money so where were the programs be broadcast are they going to be extra programmes on CBBC CBeebies are they going to be on Channel 4 they going to be on CITV I meant I know the inventive people out there and I'll find a way but you do have to ask yourself.

Where are the slots for these programs always it? Just a kind of subsidy.

I actually hate subsidies like this.

I have never really like the contestable fund it.

I don't like it in real life because what you find is loads of people just trying to target funds in a give me some money and it would be far better whose only saying it is.

And making his decision Lisa followed on BBC Studios the idea that the BBC will will be able to produce for anybody now and that produces will be able to compete for the big brands to produce EastEnders and analytic serious.

I think we're still so many question marks around BBC Studios when it hasn't got off to a good start with no Talent exodus.

Lots of questions around is it is it going to be nimble enough and and flexible enough you will it be able to compete as it should I mean it should ideally become a big creative powerhouse globally you producing for people all over all different broadcasters, but then if it don't if it fails to then.

It will what the BBC will just end up producing news and current affairs and it that's a really bad thing everybody else is getting into their own content production.

Look at ITV Studios buying.

Everything that moves Voice has its own in-house production BuzzFeed everybody is It's All About You owning the content and you owning the rights and I just worry about that long-term future for studios really and also for the smaller independence because I think yeah great thing if your wall to wall and you can bid for EastEnders but for smaller vendors, that's just more competition in the market for the for the smaller channels and requires a week this mobile of love the show but Channel 4 published its annual report this week which is always an interesting read magi what what do you make of where Channel 4 is at the moment the history of channel fours the story of Channel 4 a licence to be different and having seen all of the previous five administrations in operation and having studied the track record.

I would say that the current one is the best one.

It's done very well.

It wasn't necessarily going to be the case something they had to fill this huge gap as we can I see in their finances and in their programming left by the

Episode of Big Brother but it has turned into a successful creative renewal in my opinion record revenues record contents Burns it isn't just that they're mean the actual I know there are nights when you can look at the shed when you think will where's the Public Service Broadcasting but there are other nights.

When are my god? Is it really that and so on a huge number of fronts and it as I say it this this wasn't preordained when the current regime came in and I'm not in her pockets.

I'm just observing but since 2010.

It's been a rocky road, but I think that they have they have really done extremely well in very testing circumstances form of privatisation has been hanging in the air since last year report in The Telegraph this week that that plan has been dropped yesterday compass assessing other options including port privatisation potentially moving cannibal to Birmingham and selling its HQ on Horseferry Road what do you make a some of these proposals due in around?

I'm very glad that the privatization option has been dropped because the key thing about privatisation if it's a genuine one if it if it's done according to the rules is there an operation is mean when badly and it can be improved by the input of a property Focus commercial owners now Channel 4 isn't it a basket case I could have been but it is not a basket case it's actually increasing its cushion of cash to see it through tough times.

It's not making any call on the public purse apart from of course have a free apps lots and and airtime the chairman Charles gurassa said it very well at the end of press conference and he said that it was actually delivering well over half a billion pounds of money a year into the creative sector from private sources this can be a good thing so I think they've had a very good year.

I'm not surprised that.

The privatization has gone away because that you haven't really because its privatization is now is now going to gender.

What does that mean is that I tell you exactly what I think independent producers can move from getting extra access to BBC time to actually supplying the whole thing then apart against lobby ferociously against any kind of mucking around with this great picture and that they've got their but which it reaches serve normal verified to be an extremely quiet on this issue.

They have because they are falling out but surprised that just came out of the blue Channel 4 move to Birmingham NEC Birmingham is the place to be these days, isn't it? It's all about you know the Midlands

Quite rightly in my opinion being an outrage feeling in Birmingham that they have been completely slaughtered in favour of Manchester and unsulphured and I mean I'm somebody who trained on the Birmingham pets to Mel and I think Birmingham is an absolute Power house, and I don't think it would particularly harm Channel 4 if it did have to go to Birmingham at the same time.

I did so many stuff with element has the right to behave like the Roman empire you know and just order a television station to go to the city outside of London would I do think is interesting is that social mobility seems to have just completely disappeared off of the agenda is all about the A&E and and 50% of women and being on screen.

You know there was a report out this week saying that white working class boys were not going to university there Outnumbered by women and so I do think that that's that's something that's just come.

A huge issue and is not being addressed at all potential by definition is the possibility of achieving more in the fast-paced world of digital advertising Oracle data cloud has built its Legacy on finding the signal through the noise on unlocking potential we bring together data and technology to help you better understand your audience where to best engage them and how to measure a tool to realise true potential Oracle data cloud where better outcomes begin visit Oracle data cloud., to learn more.

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Dedicate thanks now back to the show ok.

Let's tackle some other stories in brief this week.

Just 9 weeks after its launch Trinity mirrors new day has folded I aim for a circulation of 200000 but at its end had just 40000 and that was after 50 million pounds was spent on marketing by its parent company what went wrong Maggie well, it just wasn't it? Wasn't needed there wasn't a market gap.

Nobody wanted to buy it.

It didn't have anything particularly distinguishing to say it was incredible to decide to produce a newspaper for people who don't like newspapers and how does he hate the market research and go ok? Will let us do that.

No one wants it but but it just came out of nowhere and then disappeared that you could he quickly I think if they've done it so much bigger Longer noisia launch.

Perhaps it would have had more of a chance but you know just pulling the plug on it so quickly I think so.

Sad was it a bit were the that's why I try and also now supports news results because of their deadlines.

They weren't able to put that on the front page a minute.

Just look ridiculous.

You know if you say newspaper without the news you want really but it's a good experiment really anyway.

It's the kind of meat you can tell it really with the Independent actually appearing to do relatively well as as a broadsheet online this new site to 9200 starflower left following the closure of the print edition and one more stat editor Christian Broughton to press Gazette that over 10000 people are paying £12.99 a month for the digital edition twice the number he subscribed to the newspaper what's going right these encouraging.

They double the downloads as well for the app.

You don't it's a really positive step going out yeah, it's very sad to see the end of you know the print edition as we did but of course.

It's just going to be dependent on the profitability and we know that online advertising isn't attracting the same kind of revenue as printed also we've been ok.

Just saying you know it's doing well on that front but we don't have the numbers and I think it's really too early to say until we actually know what kind of the Reverend yes, I know but I'm hopeful I got a few this style, still name some of them extremely good.

I mean they have actually misses the worrying thing in a way that the newspapers have really they had these huge ranks of soda sub editors and rather unknown people getting the paper ready and doing all the things you have to do and actually if you can boil it down too much simple organisation but if you just go online but you have to keep your star names you've got things to same remember.

They will have quite strong opinions.

That you've got a great lineup of columnist and it's really encouraging that they think retain those and they said no.

Robert Fisk and Grace then at their home.

Isn't right people what the paper for sun people on him and prayers and it will go to the website for the same people.

Yeah.

Ok, let's move on to the big radio story this week which is the power has bought Midlands network Orion Orion was formed when global was forced to sell stations including Wyvern Beacon and brmb back in 2009.

They became free radio the deal means the second largest commercial radio network in the UK gets up little bit bigger.

I mean I was in Birmingham went brmb started and I have a huge affection for it and it was you're really talking here about the key as that commercial stations for the east and the West Midlands and I also cause travel through the Midlands because I live in Wales some of the time in Mid Wales and I think it's when I just don't know what bow.

What do to them but I would love to see the brmb brand revive because it really had a residence in in in in the West Midlands but I'd as it stands.

It looks like she said one not quite so big radio group buys a Tiddler and gets a bit bigger.

I hope you're not listening share of 34% commercial radio anyway, Morgan use of barium there in only a few minutes.

I'm in it supposed to be an amazing location for creative startups and digital startups.

Isn't it? It's it's kind of you know what Shoreditch was 5 years ago or something so yeah, I mean you'll never joke about it actually I saw me to Birmingham I go onto ITV now and you may have seen that Robert Peston launched a new Sunday morning show this week Lisa did you watch it I did.

I love the way he started working out.

He's like welcome to the new show and yes, I am bleeding nervous and I like the fact he did that he was self-deprecating because of course he was so brash an annoying when he said he's going to humiliate the BBC when he first moved over to ITV so when I was quite quite glad to see a source of about turn their butts and I mean you know the rate of the ratings have been terrible haven't met and he was even which is a tenth of the Andrew Marr Show a repeat of Jeremy Kyle got to the double that didn't it straight afterwards because they blame the hot weather but you know every.

Jeremy Kyle got one back inside out.

It's going back to Sunday morning should be in the morning used to do used to have its home and they have her first attempt with Jonathan Dimbleby Heston is a must watch and I of course it's going to be struggling hugely.

But I would say Good on ITV and I hope it I hope they don't they stick with it pissing you make them so you've got to give the thing you time to grow into really established themselves and get you know and get that right tone and everything but I quite like chatting with screening extreme face was very good.

Who will come on the show Dr Jeremy Corbyn this week's what are Robert Peston said at the end of last week, so I have terrible technical problems apparently as well which shame I'm sure it's horrendous for them at the time with the live show and they have no running order on screen and I couldn't contact the presenter that you know they can do to talk back so actually hats off to meet her European Nigel Farage was invited onto lock horns with David Cameron at the official out campaign vote leave was up in Arms at one of its own prominent supporters wasn't selected for the shut up and let you know it's up to them.

She's to book an if the people wish to be but then let them do it in our not some sort of such control freaks is partly why they're they're having problems cutting through the vote leave campaign sent.

This is or email claiming that there will be consequences in the future for ITV and everything I was signed off by Gove and Boris Johnson and can I can't delete I can't see Boris Johnson I'm too scared to say anything in case they get consequently we go this time from Media quiz owner at this week's entitled Twitter peas in a totally original idea.

We have gathered 3 genuine tweets from Media people talking about a new story.

I'm going to read out the tweet and you got a bit of TV quiz the other night Hill

I'm going to distance myself is completely in the same way that the vote leave guys.

If this is your first tweet it's from BuzzFeed Scott Bryan that they've just confirmed that Maria mcerlane.

Who was the voice-over in the original show will return to voice the special the special of what are your HS yes? No? No, I'm looking forward to buy Maggi So Excited about this idea isn't up brexit with euro trash so I mean it would be lovely if it was running all the way through well.

You never know.

I love this retro idea cos sometimes.

They work really well your address return for an hour long special in the in the run-up to the EU referendum on Channel 4 second tweet is from Alex connock, who is the MD of shine North good news that BBC3 commissioning is?

Moving out of London and good for Birmingham Lisa is that city again the decision has been prompted by the Birmingham Mail who have campaigned for the BBC to move more resources to the city and all final tweet from News UK don't miss tomorrow's special 10000 edition Sunday Times yes, you're right the Sunday Times and no mean feat 10000.

It's great and so many Innovations in the 60s when you look back on.

It's amazing.

I think that releases Allwinner Steven have a passive this time.

It's ok.

That's also for today my text to Maggie Brown and Lisa Campbell if you're new to this show welcome make a media podcast shaped hole in your life that we can feel every.

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My name is Jake cancer the producer was Matt Hill the media podcast is a PPM production until next time goodbye potential by definition is the possibility of achieving more in the fast-paced world of digital advertising Oracle data cloud has built its Legacy on finding the signal through the noise on unlocking potential Weebly

Together data and technology to help you better understand your audience where to best engage them and how to measure a tool to realise true potential Oracle data cloud where better outcomes begin visit Oracle data cloud., to learn more.