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Read this: #50 - The Great BBC Bake Off Showdown - The Media Podcast with Olly Mann

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#50 - The Great BBC Bake Off Showdown - …

Hello and welcome to the media podcast I'm Olly Murs on today's show things aren't going to plan at the launch of BBC Studios there's another departure this time not for real it with so many senior execs heading for the lifeboats can anybody steady the ship channel fours comms chief darnbrook speaks to me about winning over the public in the fight to resist privatisation.

+ where was Hillsborough on the front of the times will bake off leave the V&A Media quiz the pageantry and joining me this Friday at the hospital club is the entertainment director of heat magazine Boyd Hilton good afternoon.

Hello that's a promotion since we last on the show.

What do you what do you know over CV didn't before I think this week's all about line of duty.

I guess for you absolutely.

I think Lucy is probably one of the greatest TV shows of all time wow that they got carried away big serious thing in years to come up with Breaking Bad Sopranos I'm deadly serious good.


I'm loving start already Boyd Hilton to some the lady who is known as the editor-in-chief of vice UK although two longtime listeners of this show who remember us from our guardian days at she will always be known for her TV layer at its Rebecca Nicholson hello Rebecca how is life post guardian exactly what everyone?

Convert to be lots of cool hair Woodward morning that probably doesn't happen, but you're probably long time we having meeting starts at 10:30, but that's about as early as I can get it so that yeah, but we have one now.

It's a real thing is not just happened on Dropbox advice morning meeting with they agree that line of duty is the best TV show of recent years and they like people just do nothing everyone at the moment.

Just in my office is watching the island with Bear Grylls which surprised me that is so disappointed that Patrick wasn't more her.

I don't mean for his own personal safety.

I just mean when I saw that follows like that's going to be a great.

Pokémon to die then, you know I want something very nearly died while we're going to start this week's media news with telly on Friday the BBC finally spun out its in-house production am responsible for hits such a Strictly Come Dancing into its own company the launch of BBC Studios was meant to illustrate a modern commercially agile corporation seeking to settle a Charter renewal on the front foot.

That's not exactly what's happened Peter Salmon shocked everyone by leaving his role as head of the new company in the run-up to launch and now Mark Freeland has quit as well, but he was the controller and fiction and entertainment to the respective name was oh my god for many comedy hits what happened.

I don't know it's great.

It's funny and I think I could taste in the in the was involved in a lot of good stuff.

Give us a baby's resume.

What did he recently he did that im stuck on BBC2 with right from the start?

Major companies that uses done is that some kind of elves in the recent years and it's not too much an exaggeration to say the following orcas Polly Hill left who's done a brilliant job of drama? She was kind of like you know took over as head of drama with Ben Stevenson airline.

What you looking now line of duty, but you know the recent incredible run.

I think of BBC drama in the night manager and war and peace and Poldark and the a word to just finished happy Valley thank you incredible and she is responsible for that long left.

So it is what I just wonder whether I don't know if this is your just my own Theory so used to be the edition of company much of big all-powerful.

They could just commission what they wanted you talking to I guess heads of channels and stuff, but now they have to know in this way situation where BBC Studios going to compete with all the other Indies to get slots on the BBC and ITV Studios and I can have to try and get stuff made for other channels and Indira Nagar

30 40% or so and in Mark Freeland goodbye letters basically said what is a less creative role? He said some of the proposed changes he is making talking about Mark Lindsay me and you had to be CDs at will not give me the creative platform.

I need to be at my very best and add maximum value to the studio's project is involved with her sister.

Had a go at a lot of wood did not like the structures BBC they had until recently recently where Ben Stevenson effectively and policy commission all these dramas and hat and the powers of a centralised you know kind of similar comedy Shane is in charge of call Shane said I've got enough thank-you.

Thank-you is great, but I wonder how this this change in structure.

These great people these creative.

Not really good stuff seem to think it's less crisis.

I do worry about that.

I don't know to me when you want to when an organisation of the BBC is producing so much good content stuff good programmes.

As it has done right who is doing right now.

Why change it but I guess this is your son was murdered ages ago too late, but I mean some people would argue and indeed if you look into the TV nerd message boards about this many people are arguing but actually if you call out executives that are getting 200 g + 4 participating about what should be in the schedules actually it might become leaner and more creative.

When is the possibility but as void was saying their recent run of drummers in particular has just been so good and so are selling it does make me so nervous that the people responsible for that.

I no longer there.

I don't know what's going to happen.

What's left which departments may have someone in charge of them what I think it's going to take the BBC in terms of making shows for itself still has so she would have met.

You still there I said of comedy and it's but this this people who are working in the production area and will commission is a play now have to that has changed so I still think they're you know.

I don't know who's taking over to have gone for holiday.

If that's been decided yet, but that's still that still a role.

I think I'm pretty sure it's just had this new thing of BBC Studios is is separated out.

Drum is an absolutely at its best for years comedy maybe not so I mean comedy which is marked area my feelings area.

I do think the BBC for me hasn't commissioning not and you, deep CBBC what time it's quite rare to get a new sitcom on BBC is coming every couple of months.

Maybe I make me know it so that's exaggeration show some slight.

It's about Statue thing that will be addressed, but I don't know if it will be from having a watching two Doors Down quite like that.

It's quite a bit like them.

It's got to make it as it is good to some tonight on BBC Two 10 on Friday night.

What is on BBC One it's a very mainstream.

Get me if you know about the neighbours in Scotland for 10:00 Friday booster up.

How big is a wood it's going to be so yeah, I think that's just example show for me that could've been on BBC one weekend edition Emma Kennedy sell my friend of them Oslo

Reverse problem right that was Friday night big marketing spend my overdid it and sometimes that you scared in a lots of somebody selling out so is rumoured to be better and maybe the structural thing that's happening will help yeah adding pressure to the BBC at the moment as well is love Productions who are in the process of renegotiating their fee to make the Great British Bake Off now Rebecca this would be a travesty unit British Bake Off left the corporation which Fosters this mega hit from the most unpromising of ingredients.

I think it would be a shame for the BBC obviously cultivated it from BBC Two through to BBC One and it's such a lovely unlikely thing to be massive and it's so BBC I can't think of any show that small BBC than the Great British Bake Off and possibly be great British sewing bee or whatever it's called that.

Mary Berry it just seems to be the ultimate BBC show and I can't picture it anywhere else.

I can't picture it on Sky I can't picture it on ITV even if it's the same so I can't I can't get my head around that.

I don't know if you can but I agree and I think I what I really worry about the story is that I worry that this people have BBC think even though even though it did split was BBC's biggest show now, so it's much bigger than strictly is on TV which is writing objectives Britain's got talent shows its astonishing.

I worry that some doofus are the BBC the same kind of doofuses who said let's get rid of beauty 3 input online only gonna go this is going to be a big statement will let it go you will become so we can't afford it because all the government cuts effective government hearts and I can see that because of political gesture by some idiot at the BBC thinks it's the way they should be doing rather than fighting his cuts and not.

How long do we have you make and preserve The Gruffalo BBC Chris Beckett write? It won't be the same on other channel purely is bound to go to church.

And that was little change the whole Rhythm on there at the moment every element of Bake Off is perfect you know Mel and Sue the judges of Mary Berry for laughing about it is absolutely right and it hasn't really you know this becomes got 13 of them have it was really Cusack Toni Basil really is still the same shows on BBC2 with about 3 minutes even to the extent.

I find where they have that's at the Old insert 45-minute send about how to make how to make up a waffle, let's go to Belgium and meet some chocolate episodes very basically doesn't work and yet.

That's cool.

That's ok, but I will either way don't make as they own 70% of something of love produce Inc ITV or Channel 4 would be interested in.

Everyone's interest everyone desperate for it.

If you do one be interested MTV TV maybe TV channel is probably not your friends with benefits of Channel 4 as well talking about Channel 4 they have been in the headlines this week because of again the privatization of Channel 4 being an issue raised at the House of Lords a John whittingdale was giving evidence to their communications committee and culture secretary said the private investment would improve the public service output of the channel and the neutralisation would not address those problems.

This is not about he said raising money for the government.

This is about trying to find a model to sustain Channel 4.

What does the broadcaster think about this later statement from the government minister earlier? I sat down with a Channel 4 board member.

Darnbrook to find out all I know and I spent half of my life working for large American global companies and recovery I can say is that if you're a profit-maximizing company eat.

You know there's a whole load of things that you do that are different from what channel 4 as a non-profit organisation currently that first thing is do you make a profit so at the moment all of our revenue in a generated from the market now cost the taxpayer gets pumps straight back into programs largely British programmes from British producers.

What what would an appropriate margin be ITV's margin is 28% We know that because it's published that's 280 million pounds worth of revenue coming out going profit which at the moment is spent on all of our activities.

So that's the first thing that we have changed second thing.

I think that would change is Channel 4 has a fantastically interesting model whereby it sort of a mixed economy.

It's a hybrid, so there's all the things that we.

Do that make money and they subsidised things that don't make money to Channel 4 News current affairs British film the Paralympic games a lot of the things that we do with new Talent these things lose money the American companies that I've worked for not say that necessarily a private eyes Channel 4 will be home by an American company, but they'd be on the list.

You know they sit down with great regularity and say what are the activities? We're doing the arm as profitable as there should be only thing that's actually losing money.

You are they get rid of it immediately or you say how do we do it radically differently in order that it can make money so but there is literally just said there's a third thing which I think will be important to your emotions and I jump of your listeners, which is the if I was still working in Discovery or paramount.

I'd be saying that won the first thing that I want is in house production all of this stuff about having to go out to in these terms of trade.

I'm not interested in all that I want in house production, that's why.

Be saying to the government and the check that I'd be prepared to write would be attached to that thinking and that's going to have a radical impact on the number of the Indies that channel 4 works with and the types of Indies the Channel 4.

What's a bit also the types of programs that we're going to commission a min to put it in a nutshell ITV and Channel 4 which Channel 5 sorry which effectively privatised companies they work with the reindeers that they work with added together is less than the Indies that channel 4 works with it's interesting because there for you seem to be saying even if there's a version of privatisation were somehow the government was able to say look we need to safeguard Channel 4 news in despatches or whatever that actually you'd still end up affecting the industry by cutting out so many indeed there is a program you can keep the words of a remit on the page and you can say you must produce x number of hours, but how that gets translated as we all know through the process of creativity.

What are their names up on the screen is radically different I mean you just have to look at the difference between Channel 4 news and the news that is produced by all other commercial broadcasters.

It's very very different those things would change let's talk about neutralisation memory is that still Channel 4 was preferred option and if it is explain briefly what it actually is well.

Yeah, it's all about the history of that.

I mean that there had been some talk after the election in the said that the government was interested in the idea of Channel 4 no longer being on there if you like the nations books anymore, they want a billion pounds back basically plan was very much developed by Terry burns the former chairman, and he thought was it like if you do if for whatever reason you don't want Channel 4 on the government's books.

There's a way of privatising it where you retain the non-profit status which in his view nothing else.

Are you now of you is the non-profit status that allows Channel 4?

To do to pursue this kind of Robin Hood model of doing loss-making public service things that paid for by commercial things so there are moles me know plenty of organisations that exist in the world of which have a kind of social Enterprise type of model where the pursuing if you like greater good things in the world to do with social ends or cultural and the other funded commercially but our non-profit and an equally was saying is look if you want to take it off the government but you can privatise it but in a way that that retains those characteristics rather than make it a full for-profit company.

No jobs.

Have you got any jobs at Channel 4 but part of being communications officer and chief marketing officers you're trying to communicate with the public and will seen those ads in the papers, Born Risky and all of that trying to communicate with the public those values.

We talked about before innovation.

We ask your also regulus.

Is this show I know you've heard people here on this show say why did Channel 4 commissioner TFI Friday rather than the new show with new Young

Alan showcasing music yeah, why when you think of channel for allegedly being rescued the last leg is it actually all about pushing Josh Widdicombe is established Talent where are the show who have you broken the last five years who's new Talent my god.

That's an easy question to ask really have to look at Michaela Cole you know who's recently just wanna BAFTA talking about how you know she had this lovely quote where she said Channel 4 had faith in me more faith in me than I had in myself and yet, you know they help me make my program chewing gum you know Steve McQueen is a fantastic example.

I mean Steve McQueen was a contemporary artist making art videos and a nice to go and see the things that he did in leaky churches in Hoxton he said I want to get into feature films Channel 4.

I said ok, what will go on that journey with you helped him with his first three films the third of which turned out to win best picture Oscar the first time that's been won by a film made by a black director you know maybe these things would have occurred in the pure.

Commercial sector my own experiences.

I don't think they do that balance is difficult isn't it? Was there too much Kirsty and Phil not enough Steve McQueen well.

It was always been about us like that and I you know I understand the balance probably is is never to everybody's full satisfaction, but you have to take account of the fact that channel 4 is this innovative hybrid.

You know we have a whole load of public service obligations like the BBC but unlike ITV and Channel 5 and sky excetra, but we don't run like the BBC receive any taxpayers money we have to go out every single day and I'll keep and that means you have to be relevant and that leads to this as I said, it's mixed economy of both come dine with me but evening come dine with me and I don't have it.

So he's come dine with me a fantastically public service program.


I don't have anyone to kiss to say it it is but do we put more effort that might otherwise be put into making sure that the Casting of that show is as diverse as possible.

Yes definitely we do and it pays for Anna

Call MS number of episodes of Channel 4 news and dispatchers and unreported world.

That's actually another criticism we hear of Channel 4 on this show is related to meddling was going to choose a word and then show this year in the broadcast indie survey.

Are you actually came out of broadcast Linda like to work with but also the second worst broadcast to be too much of commission as a channel for getting too involved in pregnancy what I think broadly about this.

Is that we do commission all of our programs from the Indie sector we always have done with the only one.

That's required to do that and that is a fantastic stimulus to the industry it inevitable that and and and this has been our thing the history of relationships between Channel 4 on different Indies overtime.

You know there's a sometimes with the best thing since sliced bread and sometimes people are harsh critics.

It has always been that way to my eye you know there is there's an element of that.

Today the fact that we're coming Top in the surveys suggest that we're not doing all wrong.

Don't break their speaking to the media podcast earlier today at Boyd who do you think is the privatization of Channel 4 is out-and-out saying that's his preference or indicating then? It's quite likely charge for now.

I think it's ridiculous.

What again I go back to my BBC argument channel is doing well now.

It's it.

I think it was.

Maybe through four years ago.

I think he was kind of in the doldrums.

There wasn't even doing a lot of livestock property shows and you know shows about embarrassing Bodies and all those and not so much resin crypt yourself now dramas doing pretty well.

I think you know she's had some really good stuff recently and Sunday whisper.

Talk talk about changing in privatising it.

What why what is and I listen to what John whittingdale said at the that thing none of the made any sense to me because someone just got to go is doing partially well.

I want to change that model what do going to cheat for a billion pounds for the government? Is it good for tunnel for that seems to be herself, but it is being public service committee because flowers that's just like that.

Example is not a big mainstream sure it's quite hard, so really weird thing they showing at strictly cross the week and it's great I was interesting and I just don't give us give me made by Public Service Broadcasting doesn't have such a public service remit and his own privately and has to make huge profits and it's any other this is the media podcast I'm Ollie man and if you've just joined us well, then there's something wrong with your podcast player isn't there obviously because that's the point of this show you don't need a big show recap because we're not a linear radio programme we are just for you the Mead

In your ears when you want us we don't have to cut interview short for traffic and travel we don't delete after 30 days.

That's why there are now 50 glorious episodes of this program available in our back catalogue if you value that if you value What We DO and you'd like to keep us going then show us you care go to the media podcast / dedicate and take out a voluntary monthly subscription.

That's the media podcast / dedicate.

Thank you and now it's in the radio style back to the show some of the stories the week now and this week's Fleet Street splash the Hillsborough verdict across every front page except the sun and the first edition of The Times are you could argue the sun was never gonna be able to overturn the strong feelings surrounding its involvement in Middlesbrough story about why its stablemate.

X initially chose to do the same is more of a mystery isn't it at they've apologise, but the damage has been done hasn't it? Have missed an apology Eric yeah? I thought the absence of an apology was quite notable it they just said we made a mistake and now we've corrected it.

It didn't say sorry which might have felt more apps given the strength of feeling and will you feeling that strength of feeling on social media which is Which is what I suppose you know two decades worth of anger does 27 upside was incredulous that I think I think the son of which is there are going to go to the weather going to go one we go there are going to go hell for leather and go with sorry again.

I mean I said sorry.

They did say sorry was it 4 years ago when they start 2012 when they would became clear there was cannot sustain that there was any factual evidence just for them blaming fans for anything happened to hospital.

So they can't apologise there on the front page.

Fine but I think I should have done the same thing again because this just do with know that I did that you know to to a naive leader of the Sun now.

They would just have no idea that they took that I did that and I should have done it again.

I think but so they when the other way to be ignored Primark to me.

They had some bad that I just really kind of the front page.

So that was that was idiotic.

I should have had at the time as you're right.

I was incredulous.

They didn't when I tweeted about it later.

Everyone else did people think about virtue signalling this to the spaces if you complain about something you fine.

Infuriates you from a kind of moral standpoint you and your therefore virtually but to me as I know you're putting up saying that is unbelievably stupid crash and see what I did use the fence of word offensive but speak to me the people that mean I think the Times look like a Murdoch that is all driven by Murdoch you know in Leicester

Supporting the sun and they're too embarrassed to mention, Hillsborough because of the history of the Sun which actually no one was accusing the times of doing this until this week.

I don't know really Vader Vader big story like the real and so you know I think you know now anyone and everyone who and was most people now that the credit be affected by what city was he the founders of roses much as they only have been made the most of the don't like any of the sun, but if you think it's humiliating embarrassing to me now for them.

Not to put it there.

That's great for you.

Have you got Caitlin Moran and you know what a Great Hollands David aaronovitch and he's been Henry winter moved great amount of money Plus football right around tomato grottos must be so he retiro brilliant piece of horseshoe.

Not mention on the front page in that first edition absolutely cruciate in the embarrassing to taking their decision.

And they can take control back from you know they fixed if I didn't let me know differently front page and second edition edition, but it will get the first edition.

Why did they not do it at Liverpool the first editions particularly? What were they thinking at just how I am I still reeling from another form of night editor The Times Liz Gerrard's attempted to write a blog explaining what they were thinking and and she says it was more cock up and conspiracy.

Doesn't she in her very exhausted be someone someone must have taken as I did not want it on the front page mean that look up to the extent that didn't go accidentally leave it off.

They definitely took the decision so whoever it was the to that decision it was moronic an idiotic and Spencer's him is based in Liverpool the sportswriter the other times.

He didn't realise it was unbelievable and people interpreted fairly quickly was referring.

Bewildering and book an ISA other types of them this Sweetie Belle saying you know that they can't believe it in the next day, but I think so long.

I think it's really damaging the united pound in that article investigates the drummer's and said forget it in the move on.

I just think it's really I just think it makes the whole people sing Les it.

Just feels it was less of any kind of authority or we noticed when you so let's not have it on the front page you just it's really toxic for the times isn't this supposed to be a paper of record absolutely all Murdoch's brand journalist working on in people and that because I like the Guardian we're having it's free and it is all on the internet.

Don't spend any money on any content to read their greatness.

You do have to pay money and I think I'm I'm feel like this myself actually the park then I agree I get we get copy of the office S5 but if I I would actually invested in that I like to read their great, It's like that Mariah and these people as they say.

Now put it wouldn't I just feel like the whole thing is Thomas to me.

I don't know maybe I'm such a silly maybe I'm getting carried away by to think the whole thing is tarnishing.

It's just getting carried away.

No legal basis whatsoever.

That's just briefly talk about the conspiracy the Conspiracy is Rupert Murdoch's been spending a lot of time in London recently because of his happy nuptials and he was in the office that day.

I thought it was like that.

We'd get acquainted.

Is it credible to you that made of personally would be dictating from other types of the river at that piece of the great piece that it wasn't him, but explicitly going to put it on the front the humidity of Auschwitz and much more.

Everything's the Sunday and have what an absolute ol45 that have 27 years and meanwhile is editors not bringing any reference to it all on the front page just undermines the whole all of these people that do really good start counter Radio now.

There's a new arts commissioner at Radio 4 and it's the author of the series of novels Grantchester James Runcie he's gonna be responsible for selecting all arts programs at the broadcaster from in-house teams and indi's as well interesting choice Rebecca and author I haven't yet that is an interesting choice.

I haven't seen Grantchester but I know lots of people speaking you shows that people in The Voice office like I know a couple of people at by to watch Grantchester which seems completely and Congress to me I can think of but anyway.

Sorry somebody time but I suppose because people look at the industry and they say you know if you're going to be in a commissioner you need experience you need to understand.

How things work is that true instinct?

The creative person actually Right Stuff is in charge of commissioning stuff that has to be written.

That's the most important thing you know of more people.

Just do that kind of writing on the back to him and bitching about each other behind each other's back.

I do not yet yet or disclosure by and she keep me as a semi-regular guest on front right.


I'm back to the sun again.

They are set to face trial in the civil courts after a high court judge decided to give the go ahead to for phone hacking claimants to amend their claims for damages to include the sun as well as the news the world according to press Gazette two of those trials are scheduled for.

Live at anyone cared for the date of when we might actually be able to move on from phone hacking never you get a thing as slightly that people don't really care much about it anymore.

You know there unless you had your phone.

How do I verify that they've been worn down and Thing Two thing which which is what people are furious about John whittingdale saying you didn't wanna come of carry on doing go ahead with a listen to that which is supposed to be investigating the role with the police and the press that course Hillsborough is he absolutely the key and the most for sample of a terrible relationship between the police and the media more about Leveson to because of the hill then I do the the hacking things that one down.

There was a massive scale of course.

I'm sure he should have heard absolutely and I'm not saying that I do think we the public would fit on my god.

It's still going on it's still court cases.

Making absolutely no allegations about their guilt or otherwise.

I think the public might be surprised that the sun haven't face any trains the world and the mirror it would sort of assumed that the sun will be as well.

I did kind of esteem that it had all been wrapped up.

So when I saw that stereo with yeah, I'm most guilty of the public can Sprite I was surprised I do things what the public side do do assume things about hacking that didn't actually happened like I do some Twitter going to some Jonas you know you hacked my dead girls funny things like that anything want to know what's the news of the world in an hour different.

I think there's a tendency to have some controversy about whether that really has a huge.

I think it's I think a lot of people in the public was like all those tabloids are hacking phones which may or may not have been true to some extent, but they kind of lump it all in together.


Yeah, I think people should have imagined and stars you like listening in wiretap.

Where's that what they were doing was just getting people's code for their voicemail was 0000 cos no one bloody changes.

It's not that cloak-and-dagger.

Is it really?

Ruin people's likes looking for supposed to have no sympathy for a living it's one of the few things that make me feel incredibly sorry for celebrities because it did just another lawsuits.

Have you seen this one about Mark Thompson in the New York Times that is fascinating the Guardian reporting that the nyt preferentially favours.

It's ideal staffer young white unencumbered with a family at the expense of older female and black employees at that is according to some older female black employees are no longer part of the New York Times the Australia stories a reminder that he's still in charge of the New York Times I mean I was I found it unbelievable to the start of this.

I thought not great head of the BBC ended up in charge of the New York Times why would I connect another couple of times maybe he's done a great job otherwise he is no longer responsible for your contract on front row definitely like that.

And I'm not going to get sadly.

I don't know what's going to happen now, but I thought I couldn't believe it when I got that job and his page is always pays his life six million dollar something is rebuilding that Guardians hold on this guy who a lot of it was thinking about just need to be so don't know how can you tell but it's around the BBC 6 now this come along now.

He was interested or not but the whole thing is explored by definition is the possibility of achieving more in the fast-paced world of digital advertising Oracle data cloud has built it's like a seat on finding the signal through the noise on unlocking potential we bring together data and technology to help you better understand your audience where to best engage them and how to measure a tool to realise true potential Oracle data cloud where better outcomes begin visit oracle day. to learn more got plans for the long weekend, you could get your friends round for drinks maybe even your first barbecue of it's not too chilly.

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Enjoy responsibly there is just time for a media quiz this week is entitled pageantry.

Poet stuff being a print newspaper editor with all those advertisers corporate overlords and impending financial doom to consider.

Can you guess which page certain editors chose to put these arguably front page stories? That's this week's quiz so I'm going to give you a story you need to tell me on which page.

Just appeared in the paper buzzing with your name Boyd you will say boyfriend Rebecca you will say is that if you never want to be called Becca Rebecca in print, but I'm better in person ever tried I tried alien person by Melissa in printing and the rest is maybe they look really migos.


Andy let's play the game the winner will receive a vintage edition of the waddingtons board game scoop game that makes headlines at all three pages right and we will throw in the phone-hacking extension pack ok closest page number wins literally the longest introduction to media queries.

Number one last week we had the shocking news that the comedian and writer Victoria Wood have passed away at the age of 62 David Cameron called her a National Treasure but where did the Daily Telegraph put the story in their next edition boys boy age 11 Rebecca would you care to come to that page 8 models closer? It was page 25 25 over Telegraph of Victoria Wood and are a piece of heat as well as absolutely that is all of those that it feels she was the kind of working at 0 because I think that comedy really spoke to it certainly spoke to me when I was growing up in that kind of work and pensions ESA rates, but also I would have thought that she would be able to Telegraph readers, so it's

Testament to her, how much she cost is the Divide to put a kind of ordinariness on the screen, didn't she which is painful between actually shot and you know cafes and it was that kind of thing that you don't see as much of anymore.

I don't think I'm TV women talking about sex ATS in any watch it again right is questionable to the Hillsborough verdict dominated the front pages on Fleet Street this week as we discussed that don't include the sign of the times, but where did the story set in the first edition of the times we get to guess the pagination yes Rebecca page 202 such a brave boy.

I know I think you was like 23.

This is complicated maths answers page 12, so is too close.

It's your turn away 23 your 11 away.

Extended genuinely spontaneous way, because this is such a car crash right here is the 3rd question in the last time we spoke about the injunction brought by celebrities PJs and yma, but how many words did popbitch write this week on the important question how on Earth does one go about setting up an olive oil paddling pool sex party guess the amount of words what the word count back again.

We have any more from Boyd also less 600-700, so that ok battery is definitely the Rebecca is the winner stretch that far because popbitch dudek.

Spend £1,000.50 words herself to 1300 do 2000 words are preferably with him in bed of Duty clips of Victoria Wood singing with Rebecca is the winner at boys.

Thank you very much for coming.

Thank you to darnbrook as well and Rebecca Nicholson that's also for today.

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