Read this: #45 - a promising dawn for New Day and Radio 2 Country pops up

Hello and welcome to the media podcast I'm only man on today's show John whittingdale takes a break from brexit to address the issues that matters the media.

We took loopholes and Levinson to as the BBC brings back.

It's pop-up station Radio 2 country yard, we had to Maida Vale to discuss how these temporary channels.

Can I changing the radiogram plus the new day is 1 week old we take a look at its first five Editions are there early signs of successful BBC threes move online and the media quiz heads to Salford for a spot of natural history as all to come on today and you order me this Friday at the hospital club.

It's the managing director of lemonade money the award-winning 4 hours of the award-winning do we can we keep that are for before I get tired but we were not only award in 2010.

We're still playing.

How to get for all it's worth and what have you been up to this week for us it she looking at planning to 2016 we've got some interesting thoughts about other things we want to do including identify can reveal that but we'll chat original content stuff and their whether or not we should be doing alright bits and pieces away from other broadcasters, so that's quite exciting breaking out on your own no Mindy TV production company something that I said deputy editor of metro.co.uk it is the digital media brain and body of Alex Hudson Media digital.

You don't know I'm not sure you should be posted quite frankly what's been going on at metro.co.uk Alex

How many shares you can get in as you probably dosa menu Omar said that you've got millions 8th well these standards that but thank you see things when is were busy planning for next 2 years the big serious futura vitiligo UK and I spent the morning chasing after a man called a man in the shed, so we've found this money.

We found this man on Facebook he's receiving random messages from strangers making slightly racist jokes about the fact is called a man of a shed saying can you please get out of my shared his name is yes, that's amazing and we're trying to work out if it's a lie if it's a spoof if it's made up.

We still don't know so all of that could be entirely false so it understands it up and work out if it's true or not and doing the rigorous journalistic work to find out whether I'm in Ashtead is a real man or not does that tally very strongly with the serious big futura metro.co.uk yes you can find out if the Brave New World

Later culture secretary John whittingdale, he says laughing no one ever says that laughing at was at the Oxford Media convention this week.

He addressed a few hot potatoes there including the BBC and Levinson to yes.

That really is a thing we ever going to talk talk about 11 and then you dodged a few other issues like Channel 4 before throwing a curveball on ad blocking above as let's start with the BBC has its traditional here at the Guardian reported on Friday that there won't be a white paper until after the referendum at what is the culture secretary saying Oxford happened.

I think a lot of people have been there gaming the system and it's always people not paying their licence people watching BBC online if you wanna continue going down a licence fee route and yes, it sure that any money.

It's Cassini BBC content is is paying fairly for it and I think it sensible that we close that if we're going to continue using the last 4 years away.

We're gonna find them.

BBC NFFC simchat aware you said it wasn't distinctive enough and and as he made ITV and all those guys are happy.

I guess it's always a challenge for the BBC hasn't it if I've got one question which is not enough.

You're not doing enough flight needs programming about the Arts and then you got another thing that says we not be mainstream enough now.

I was watching your content so they've there in this kind of purgatory for the rest of their days and this is just workwear the side of the coil is landing today and am I think it's like the unfair.

I think the BBC continue to do stuff that's on both sides of the spectrum and an essay, always argue when I kind of agree with you have to do some popular things to ensure that cuts through and like I always say I don't think anybody else can do Dragons Den All The Apprentice or Bake Off As populous and as well as as a BBC does I think this or any other shows on ITV TV version are watching Repeater Jones still I bloody love that a bad thing.

I have just completed two shows in my head.

There was one which locate tycoon with Peter Jones with the one I really enjoyed whatever is fortune was the one which was just basically people begging for money who was Dragons Den but instead of saying I have an idea because I'm really poor can you give me some money please, Duncan Bannatyne's hamara below shows were that you have no idea what they call the really what happened to me because I'm in Witham Dale Alex has also been talking about Leveson to return of the Sith everyone's out and groans and I don't see what more we need to discover.

I think you're Leveson was very much.

We already know most of the things that were going on in leather sleeve away before levers and we did just took that full stop at the end of that period of jainism happily before I ever became a Jealous of the worst bits of that happened and now you're thinking ok great.

We know that jealous and has been broken and the people have been doing questionable things on on legal grounds or even on moral grounds.

Ok right the journalism has stepped up and jumped up and

Games that we still don't quite know how to have as a workshop with the idea that was somehow try to distiller into her here's everything that's wrong already seems either premature away too late.

It's just a really confusing time of the why you would start that now.

I would you say that to hacked off if they were in the room.

You know that I need to keep bashing on about this is all been dealt with with we're all good boys now.

I don't think we're all good.

I think we don't really at metro.co.uk follow the celebrities round we don't push them we find if a story is only a story if it's a celebrity doing something so that's the differentiation that we've made they have to be doing something for it to be worth as chasing and writing about and the members of hacked of our right to feel aggrieved that they've been chased down the street for whatever reason and if the law isn't robust enough to say is this in the public interest is this fact is it worth pursuing the law was ordered are all of the mechanisms are in place to enforce all of these things.

It's just that if they're not been followed.

That's not something that Leveson 2 needs to explore.

It's just something that needs working through an existing legislation.

As there was a lot of scepticism that the Tories we're gonna brush under the carpet after the election all of this press regulation stuff, but whittingdale is meeting hacked off a did you think there is actually a desire to try and clean things up still I think that im by Marie Curie because I work in the TV industry networking the broadcast industry.

We don't do journalism in from a point of view of in factory Dudley News at lemonade money or any other work that I've done previously but I just find it so bizarre that we had a massive enquiry wear leathers and made some recommendations and and the press are able to just turn around and go that's nice and thanks like worry, but we just want to know you and we're not going to take on any if any of the recommendations and an actually we don't need any of that and I think that that's frustrating from my viewpoint when I think Ofcom you know it's not perfect but actually it's kept it kept broadcasting in a particular region is on on broadcast news pretty strong and robust and I think that we had some really great breaking stories of happened across broad custody from Sky from Sky News due to new tonight.

We have some really strong stories from now.

It's never really stopped them.

From the breaking news stories.

Just as well as as print journalism had and in addition to that.

I really do think that if we had a situation where television was investigated in the same way that the press was investigated via the Leveson Enquiry spent all of that public money went through all that rigorous process and then television turned around and said you know what cool me to regulate ourselves and don't worry about it.

I think the press actually rang them and would say I cannot believe that the TV on BBC or iTV Rovers get away with this there seems to be one rule for newspapers and another rule for everybody else.

Ok.

Talk about the press and impartial news in the Press I have here a copy of the paper that says it's completely politically impartial Trinity mirrors new publication new day.

It's been on sale for a week and the early signs of around 150000 people a day are picking up the paper although that is at the trial price of 25 pets can get 50p soon at on the first day Monday about 1 1/2 million people are said to have tried the free edition.

I got Thursdays copy here.

Everyone else to talk about your at their front page is a photo montage of children with meningitis and a story about the footballer Adam Johnson and on the back at this newspaper that says it's offering something different to the internet has can you guess peaceful internet cats, but let's talk about the tone generally of the paper Alex Hudson what do you reckon? I think that's able to call a paper without a review and then one apiece in it about Donald Trump and how it would be abhorrent for him to become president that you're already going against your whole reason data.

If you're coming out as this impartial newspaper and people like having a pen instead of the opinion pieces in it off for and against are interesting yeah, but the idea that they don't have columnists and then have Yasmin alibhai-brown writing staff and they have a number of other big traditional commerce in there and I read the first few days.

It's launched and I think the biggest criticism I have of it is that I have no real strong opinion about it it exists it's there.

It's perfectly pleasant as well laid out as well Thought through and it's really

Good if it's just a thing of it does it takes a while for new paper to really develop a voice but you have no idea what the voice is coming up paper because it's so desperate to be impartial however impartial and may or may not be remind me of actually for as it reminds me of when there was that battle in London for the free evening sheets before leaving standard went free and we had London light and the London paper if you remember those both of them really quite bland obviously written by kind of young journalist starting out and a small team lots of photos and they kind of pasta journey on the train.

Don't they but they were free and this is 25p kind of see your point that it was it was in passing.

It wasn't trying to being a shouty newspaper.

It was just something that you picked up on the way home and had regular features in it and you can't fit through and you knew what to expect and it wasn't something.

Can you change your opinion of such which you can argue for a newspaper is a bad thing but for a for a little commute home.

It was a right sort of size in the right sort of weight both politically and physically for it for a little.

Can you home on on London in and kind of made sense to me I felt was a bit of paper than the London light show and I added to who used to run the London I would be vehemently arguing with you about London live buses London paper.

I think I know what I think probably from a design point of you.

That's where I thought for me because I think the long has much better design easier to read than London light off all the London light was I gonna see her for years ago.

Did a new day.

There are two things that I would say about the new day is firstly it's the eye it just looks like ABI clone etsy.

It's almost like the same tone the same field as well, what the Independent and you can't feel like it's a straight rip-off.

I need us a story about how the mirror try to buy the I am unsuccessful, so it does feel like their way of getting into that space of the show Adam has been.

Talking about the new day this week suggesting that actually the whole purpose of it is that it is a spoiler and it's been published simply to ruin the chances of Johnston Press as version of the I taking off that yet mirror wanted to buy it and then they couldn't get it.

They thought well.

That's just do a version of it seems to me though that the I was based on the Independence Day the new day been based on the mirrors.

Journalism is struggling to find quite social stories to report a form you had a chance to flick through it but the key thing for me is I can't if it if I'm being brutally honest.

I am not sure my opinion on the new day.

Is it particularly valid in the reason I say that is because I live in London when you live in London you work out any tube station and you get a copy of stylist or you get a copy of support or you get a copy of the enemy and it's similar approach me and I think we are spoilt in London by this sort of journalism discord of kind of like you know any am particular particular sport and and Silas and shortlist they.

Article about magazzini feel to them which which this has as well as a result a lot when I'm looking for it feels like stuff that I've seen already because it's it feels like that kind of supplement of of a newspaper rather than in UK for his own right because it's because it's devoid of any opinion and devoid of any political you know you mention that if you take it out of the Southeast and you imagine yourself you know in a greasy spoon in Sheffield actually I would be more comfortable in the way reading that then reading the sack from that point of view.

It is kinda think there's one key point that it's a very well.

Researched remedeine around around newsrooms is just how Furious Johnston Press are about this launch, because if they have known it was happening rumour hat rumours suggest that the premiums are paid for the I might not have been as high as it was interesting ok and final point the quality of the paper feels like a bizarre thing to be talking about the podcast that's obsessed with the digital future but they have invested in Nisa feeling paper.

With that with that worth it.

It's been like The Guardian doing their Berliner thing as well.

I mean what does anyone care better than paper the internet and provide you with an infinite of use that you would like to talk about that an infant under things that anything you can think about it allows you to Google whatever you want to search on Facebook for any page you like it at any time of the day.

You choose any updates as it goes you will never find out data story that has not been already updated that there is a dirty joke.

I could hear about the internet rubbing off on your fingers, but I won't you've got me Rightmove onto ITV and despite some less than stellar ratings this year ITV plc is actually had a fantastic year financially speaking lot of this.

I think is going to Downton Abbey and a nice to 6% rise in profits advertising revenues also up 6% but crucially advertising isn't where the big games were out in fact the broadcaster is no less reliant on sponsors than it's ever been and 40.

9% of ITV's revenues now come from other sources at 4 as when Adam Crozier became CEO at this was actually his mission statement, wasn't it? So is it mission accomplished Adam as I'm concerned.

It's been a genius in this space and he's he's been able to offset what's happening in the advertising dolls only saw it coming a long way off before I would argue any other broadcaster and he's done some really clever smart things to ensure that the ITV remains a viable business anything if you look at what channel 4 are we doing about investing into doing investing into Indies and and also sky site to buy people at the garden.

You've got other people that they are kind of copying this model because it's actually probably the right model what you're buying up IP and and using your broadcast was a way to to launch, IP make it popular in and then send it elsewhere and it's a smart interesting model.

It's work for ITV and and I think that a lot of credit should go to him.

I would say is that im curious to know how sustainable it is from from what we've seen there more and more international broadcasters and brand.

They're interested in doing full buyouts so this IP model of selling thinking about Downton Abbey across the world.

I think if you went and did a deal with Netflix I expect that Netflix would take all your rights and then all your secondary your send me right to take you between 90 people like Amazon and on only had a new publishers is secondary rights model may have a shelf life and it'll be interesting to see if this model that is working for ITV today is sustainable in five years time but the company is becoming more resilient to the effects of the digital age is channels are actually struggling Alex on Sunday night recently ITV was beaten well in fact on all of Sunday from morning to evening they were beaten by Channel 4 they have a problem that what what should they do? I think that's not ITV that's a Channel 4 getting stronger and Channel 4 commissioning rounds being actually getting more of where the audience is going so there is still a long way for Channel 4 to go but it's it's getting it more and more and more and for ITV I think partly you need to push towards Edge double.

I'm Always Gonna say that I have a

Tobias and because ITV Player user experience wise is just stop giving me adverts.

I appreciate your phone.

It's called ITV hub these different products are different times.

It's not that differ from off although the experience north or similar when it comes to advertising.

It's you know.

It's still three roles and and then a content and in another five adverts, how many teams me YouTube Channel 4 getting stronger and they have inventors arguably become more mainstream actually isn't it in a way kind of ITV's slightly appealing to the wrong person and you think about who's be the core ITV viewer 10 years ago ITV now appeals much more to me and that's probably a problem for them.

Isn't it or an oven for you? I'm much more likely to watch Tom Bradbury hosting the News at Ten or a documentary about margarita or Michael Gambon playing Churchill but those are all kind of Channel 4 shows from 10 years ago.

That's what I'm saying that they brought pallet, but they actually ended up perhaps.

I would argue showing programs are actually more attuned to the people running at the people used to watch it.

I think you think that there is a massive opportunity on network Netflix are winning Netflix are winning at the sort of content that are so the the BBC term for is the appeal to the Punisher audience so the BBC bus to turn off ok, these people are going away from a content.

How do we get these younger or more digitally savvy or whatever that thing is into Arthur and that's the that's the bit I to be is missing.

What is the new exciting thing Downton Abbey was this glorious success still is but it's not a replenisher audience is not the new young things coming and finding that it's the people we already know and the market.

We already have its.

How do you build up on that with this new if I give you just jumped off of it right we can do this innovative program.

They tried it with the ITV question time is that still running or is that already varnished? What agenda? Yeah? It's

That's not you.

That's not exciting it.

It's it's a well produced, but still it's not a new idea.

It's not pushing boundaries.

It's not Channel 4 for work.

It's not it's not anywhere near there is it has been performing only Jeremy Corbyn was it was on the show this week involved in any kind of issue somebody antics to get up to on the word looking at someone's belly button before we had to the brake.

You may have noticed that are Radio 2 obsession with pop-up stations has intensified in the past few years from Radio 2 Eurovision to be forthcoming Radio 2 country excited about your closet country nerd at the station has been breaking out of its usual schedule to provide more to the tastes of selected groups of listeners, but how useful are these temporary channels and is the BBC testing the ground for something bigger from Radio 2 in the future the media podcast meant to BBC Maida Vale studios to find out I will be coming back.

Hope you can make it out.

So you're saying hello my name is Albert and I'm being specialist music additive for Radio 2 and 6 Music prime, Brett Spencer an editor for digital output for the BBC's popular music reggae, networks, I think the first one was five lives Olympics sports extra and that was really about being able to provide a lot more covered.

You'll be Olympics that 5 Live couldn't provide just on their own station and on sports extra the first one.

We did it Radio 2 was but it to Eurovision and that was really because we wanted to sort of try and reinvent the way we covered Eurovision and to provide a much richer experience from Eurovision fans over several days what the contest was about but it's also really quickly for us about getting Radio 2 listeners to listen on digital platforms, so that 54% of our listeners currently listen digitally at some point during the week, but we want to continue to move that on and get them to consumers in different ways either and dab or

Fine as a post this listening on FM ok, so let's talk about Radio 2 country then last year was the first year that you did that and it's coming back again.

It's all built around country to country which is this huge country music festival at the O2 partnering with such an obviously commercial entity must have had its own challenges right from the beginning running for 3 years as a festival and from day one Radio 2 this was before Radio 2 country last year but Radio 2 was the broadcast partner we do it quite a lot with quite a lot of festivals.

We were the broadcast band for bluesfest recently and we've been broke as part of a Cambridge Folk Festival so what makes this kind of more unique is it obviously Radio 2 is the only national station that does do country music so in that way it makes absolute editorial sense that we would be at reflecting the biggest country festival that there is in the UK on Radio 2 because yeah it just is where people would expect it and very mind in previous years.

We had broadcast highlights of the festival on Radio 2.

Taxi by broadcasting all of it we're getting much better value for money for licence fee payers from the money that we're spending on broadcasting and events are actually last year we're going much better deal out of it now.

How many of the Radio 2 lineup our country fans because obviously you've got Bob Harris who's the face of country on radio 2 now, but I must it's a bit like five live and not everyone their likes football.

I mean in the same way.

Are you having to crowbar some presenter stream Radio 2 and say you're gonna presenter show all about Dolly Parton or other enough countries is really sensibly know there aren't that many rounds once you actually start talking to the radio to mention guys you realise that they do does actually this album which country music but I do like Dolly Parton and I do like the Eagles and do like Mary Chapin Carpenter and suddenly.

They will actually what you're saying.

Is you like quite a lot of have come to music so there's always an access point now.

It's been great for in the middle of recording some of the other shows now and I actually was in the studio yesterday with Jeremy Vine recording.

Is Jeremy Vine stomping country which I thought right Jeremy's Justin strictly he likes a bit of country music he turned up at c2c last year.

He loves kacey musgraves.

I thought I'll ask him if it'll do a dance that kind of dance crazes in country music and as we said before it's all about providing more Radio 2 so if you listen to that the 4 days were there.

You will hear that presenters pointing towards Radio 2 country as a choice of listening at the top of our that's the only time that would it happens on idea to say Jeremy will say at 1 you can hear me another way of me on Radio 2 or will point alternative program on on whether to come true and have it all the presenters in roll-ups helps with that because then they have investment and they're really involved in the content of the station challenges of setting up a live radio station as a pop-up at an event you know you're not even in your own Studios and what have you learnt from last year that you can we get a great room at the O2 that they give us which is the fancy and it's called The Fab room and it's basically where all the kind of vip's that would be at the O2 would hang out and it's a really excellent.

We get that backstage, so it's 7 what we can do it is large enough to bring in a full with a full DJ setup usually got two presenters there.

We've got space for a band to come in to do some live music does a little room at the back where the interactive guys that doing the live blog and all the social media stuff then that they're all there as well.

It's the same as doing an outside broadcast really Radio 2 itself because you just setting up a working studio and then there's a studio back at Weston House that is set up as the Radio 2 country studio and they're taking all the outside sources not that kind of stuff.

So it is like there is a little studio on the fourth floor of western House of becomes Radio 2 country for 4 days and everything comes out of that ok.

You're both doing a good job and publicizing the station what went wrong last year looking back on it.

Didn't work.

I wasn't the one roll, but I think what what had the potential to go wrong about me to be better than me is explaining to people from the US and from Nashville

What we're doing and why we doing if you want to spend on that don't understand what a digital station is Americans usually the lightwell.

What is that is that online? It's my mother is online, but it's a bit more than that and so trying to explain that and trying to explain that it is part of Radio 2, but it's not actually Radio 2 and so that with that was quite difficult so we did have situations where we've gone through the whole process and we got all the all the contract sorted and then we get to the O2 and the guys on stage you like we don't know anything about this.

What is this now? We don't really want you to take us live and then I'll be ok.

This is the whole point of today and so then you having to get into cuts and discussions, but that's that's really about wellness with Americans and with the the record companies out of Nashville and this year.

It's already loads better because we did it last year and they suddenly saw I mean the Artists alike.

Huge massive ramp ups of sales people that were playing over the weekend after we did ready to come to you could really we shifted some some records for them.

Yeah.

I think suddenly people understand ok so Radio 1 has Radio 1Xtra Radio 4 has Radio 4 Extra radio 2 has Radio 2 country and Radio 2 Eurovision and it seems to me like inside all of these pop-up stations does a Radio 2 extra struggling to get out, but it can't because you know commercial radio would take up such a fuss if you actually proposed such a thing thing is that all actually because what you're talking about their was you're talking about starting a new radio station and what we're talking about his providing more what radio two dads and other platforms.

We don't look on these as stations as it were we look on these as opportunities to provide much greater coverage of a radio to property for wanting better word on other platforms to provide a deeper experience of that event and was to get people to listen or digital platforms, but there's not enough.

How to make music like going back 50 years 11 is enough archive to do a Radio 2 extra that the Radio 2 audience with love you know if there's enough people listen to Bob Harris for 2 hours a week.

They want to listen to 3 days worth of it then obviously every single day.

You do to do the same thing.

Silence is to send it it doesn't discuss.

Ok good luck whatever highlights well, I would say Jeremy Vine stamping country having recorded it yesterday.

That's certainly going to be worth a listen but the highlight is been down there at the at the O2 and seeing these enormous stars from Nashville one after another across the weekend.

We have performing to 30000 people that's pretty amazing and when we put that out on on her that isn't that feels to me like incredible that we have the opportunity to do that and to bring such contemporary massive country music to such a wide audience and we're excited to see a type of Radio 2 country stage at the O2 as well as one of things without last year is that we didn't have much brand awareness if you like that for people who are actually at the events of this year whatever our own stage with with live acts playing and talks and that sort of thing enjoy.

Thank you very much.

Pleased is March 10th at 12.

Shall we see what's on the media podcast jukebox today?

Delightful now as I'm sure you've noticed.

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the methods used by criminals have always evolved.

Do you know 40% more likely to be a victim of cybercrime then of burglary with hiscox cyber clear you're covered for all cyber threats even the ones that don't exist yet search hiscox cyber insurance right the other stories of the week and Dame Janet Smith review into allegations against Jimmy Savile at the BBC make for some eye-catching headlines serious failings whitewash the BBC Trust must be scrapped.

They're just a few have another it's all settled down at what have you made of her report for as I haven't read the report cos I hear it's you.

You should hear it says it's a monster of a Viking crazy like 300000 word wasn't going to same like that, but a bit of full public enquiry, but they went for it as if it were you think the right way to use but it just feel.

Old in the sense that it doesn't feel like it so they could happen today and I just hope that that's true.

I hope that everything has been said and everything that happened in in that space.

Is it so it was so shocked and appalled about it because it's something that we would never allow to happen now and I just hope that's true.

I mean that's all you can hope for now because I think that I would expect anybody from any level that sees any sort of used like that to to report it immediately and I actually think that what's happened with recent cases as I won't mention any names, but it does seem that there are few people that have been indicted or of being caught up in this year in been acting inappropriately different levels members of staff and and they are being reprimanded as as a result of that and some people leaving prison someone is being investigated and I think that that's been the the positive outcome of this is that people feel like they can come forward and something will be done about it, but it was wrong to not report it.

If you knew anything then and the purpose of the report was to see whether anyone knew anything and Alex according to this report that is cost millions.

No one at the BBC no one who worked on children in need no one who worked on Jim'll Fix It no one knew anything which you read all the press Lines about just how much of an open secret it was or how many people had Inklings of something and then when does an inkling become something you report and when does something you should report become actually harmful to your career.

That's the thing and so Lord Hall was up on stage for quite a while way longer than I thought it would be up during that full morning I've been discussed and he was very much saying that everyone should feel like they should come forward and Report all these things and still there's a culture of you do not become a Snoop you do not become a grass because who hires you after you've told the people it's horrible in that shouldn't happen, but it still does you Talent is still call Talent and there's a step aside from the people who aren't front of screen around front of house and trying to break down those Bridges is a key part of what the BBC in any broadcast any any newspaper any Media outlet at all.

Should be working towards but the mentality of people who think they can get away with it still remains and there's very limited amount so we can say about this because legal proceedings are going to miss you, but the question is 2 words Tony Blackburn I wouldn't even want to comment on that without knowing exactly what's going to come out of that and and what the allegations Ireland and what happens from their what what I would say essentially he's lost his job because his Version Of Events didn't tally with the BBC's though because they're not saying that you did anything they're saying his version of events in Tel Aviv what we would have expected is that good enough.

I am keeping dead quiet with all the toys are in very quickly this point so there is a suggestion in the report that the victims said that they will didn't want to take any further and there is something we have to be aware about the respect of victims in this in this scenario in if if you are an exec producer and and you're speaking to that person and they say to you.

It's I'm I'm being quite clear about this.

I don't want anything with it.

We do you have to be quite aware of their wish is angel Bay WI

To handle it I don't think it's simply just a case of this person who produces an effect producing.

I did nothing with this information.

I think there are lots more new else is in this and as as by the size of the report indicates.

It's very complicated and we could be a bit careful about having one broad stroke to save they should have done this instead of doing that there is no easy segway from that story to the next cell.

Just go straight into it.

Let's talk about the ratings of BBC3 at two of its new series of maybe top 10 online shows as measured by the ratings body, but that's cuckoo and life and death row, which tartan you run last week without a terrestrial broadcast is this good news for the controller of BBC Three Damian Kavanagh you would assume so wouldn't you fresh look at these figures hurt my feelings on this is and I feel like this across across the board when it comes to online content you have to spend money on advertising what you're doing on online.

You have to come to draw attention to it.

I find it really curious that the amount of money that BBC has.

Non traditional Media pushing into online media team out of billboards that been out there a newspaper article I found it absolutely hilarious the Greg from cuckoo was on The One Show launching BBC3 was Mendeleev channel online buy by cutting a fake digital river and then and then kind of cut-out side to them trying to break a selfie record with Blur with a blurry photo that was them and they fail to break down in addition to that a minute.

So it was your day have made a lot of noise.

I put in a lot of investment to tell people that is on BBC smb3 and actually if they didn't get into the top 10 of the iPlayer what your own own space than that.

I think it would be a real disaster the question now is whether or not they can sustain that it's important to note that in the story came out recently that Clash Clash of Clans which is an iPhone game any amount of money that they spent on advertising it something crazy like that half a billion pounds been spent on on advertising that Dad game on the app store can the BBC sustain that level of investment when it comes to drawing attention to their content online? That's what I'm curious to see particularly when they cut money.

The interesting point of course it doesn't cost to BBC anything to advertise on their own shows does it say I mean I don't have to use the same amount of money.

It's just whether it's a fair playing field Alex and it becomes a lot of aeroplane feel that we don't realise you know we talked about the idea of them only being 1channel only been two channels and 3 then 4 then 5 then sky starting there was loads more channels.

You just opened yourself up to YouTube as a competitor.

You've just opened yourself up to Netflix Amazon Prime and if Netflix can afford to spend 50 million dollar series as they did do on House of Cards the BBC cannot compete with that level of production that that has the names and the and the writing and just the Brilliance of that program it brings people in their advertising it across the online the Advertiser getting very far away.

Is that you were saying people use clever marketing tax I've been privy to a couple of private briefings about how new things are marketed.

They don't put it on TV they don't put it on The One Show they go to key YouTubers and key instagrammers and work with them in content partnership.

And that's something else outside Radio 1 that the BBC hasn't been as quick on as it's competitors, but the BBC's not trying to compete with House of Cards on BBC Three other day trying to public service programming for young people if they're trying to get 16 to 24 year olds into programming which if you look at the average age of BBC3 it hasn't done in the past and said that this move we're still yet to get the demographics of this but Netflix hit that Instagram hit that YouTube hits that Square in the face to move those people into this space.

It is difficult and I think without some genius Innovations and how they touch it and how they innovate around it.

It always felt like it wasn't funny thoughts throughout the time if they didn't have if you look at the amount of 20 to 23 year old people 24 year old people actually employed by the BBC particularly editorial production roles it shows you know what's the best way to resit in 24 year old people hire 1624 year old people to do make or to push out or to advertise this content.

Retired but I can continue to mention it the reality is that the BBC had a point of difference when it comes to younger audiences when they're competing with Amazon and Netflix and always people that you could not buy your way into and that they had a TV channel and then I don't have a TV channel, so they are the same as all of those other competitors and they're gonna have to figure out how they're going to be able to be more noisy and be able to cut through to the audience when they are competing with other things that are on your phone screen on your computer screen.

They didn't have to do that when they had a TV channel ok.

It was we talking about Amazon and Netflix that moves seamlessly onto Top Gear because there is some suspicion that Netflix will be picking up with the BBC's new Top Gear out.

Obviously they show it first run on BBC2 but then have six months later.

It will be available to stream in the UK and Pepsi leaving go out simultaneously in the States in places like that on Netflix on a course that will go against Amazon's new big Clarkson Show Alex this is actually got bigger now then Clarkson vs.

The BBC this is become Netflix vs.

Amazon

And that picture is where it becomes fascinating so we talked earlier about ITV's model of had this indicating programs because of the unique way the BBC is funded.

They don't have enough money to sustain themselves by not selling to all sorts of people for all sorts of Incredible prices Doctor Who works, because it's so fancy that so well sold overseas and Top Gear is in that exact category and I still think Clarkson will when I don't really do because it feels you don't know what's the Big Breakfast Johnny Vaughan and Denise Van Outen left.

Can you remember the next presenter? That's a great question was it Richard Bacon probably that show now maybe think the Chris Evans should have brought along Gaby Roslin and zigzag.

Breakfast start but once you remove the defining characteristics of a program and it's just because of programme about cars with people who might be as funny.

You might be is engaging in might be as challenging as Clarkson at all you are risking a huge amount for the for the sake of a brand that she doesn't this conversation in the way miss understand the fact that on the internet although it's fun to talk about Amazon vs.

Netflix actually viewers get to see both and if you're interested in Cars you interesting humour you like Clarkson and you like Chris Evans you can see both you don't see them as competitors you watch both would one after the other but then that's that goes from £7.99 idea.

What £9.99 a month for Netflix + Amazon's mellow beats cheap the moment.

I can't imagine me.

Yeah.

I can't imagine that's gonna stay for longer plus your licence for you.

When does the spending stop and if you look at the way that people look at new sites people who look at one new Saturday people will only could only subscribe to one or two things Italy pick Amazon and Netflix or do they pick Netflix or something?

Amazon something else we've just wait, so new we don't know what the audience data.

Will show about how just how many things people subscribe to its the great unknown and my guess is that Netflix have got it right Amazon adding it as an extra and taking the son of BT model of have ITV4 free if you sign up for some other things we just have no idea Wikipedia page and apparently Paul tonkinson and Donna Air took over from messenger or Richard Hammond Clarkson and and mayo's is going to be but if you talk about Netflix vs.

Amazon he goes well.

Obviously not this gonna win if you talk about Clarkson vs.

Chris Evans will we see what they mean if there's obviously a clear strategy from Amazon to try and get that mind sharing.

I use this show as well FAQs high Castle and and Mr Robot to kind of push it in in that get credibility in that space as well, but I think that.

Story you know I would be kind of surprised if Netflix didn't pick up the second rewrites Top Gear I mean it was always going to happen.

The brand is still call TopGear it's you know it's coming up six months after outside of your iPlayer window.

It's wykebeck to see you on Netflix anyway, so I'm not particularly surprised that this particular story good news that we were talking the last episode that Chris Evans was heading up to the be upfront and that you know people from around the world.

We're going to see whether they liked the clips that they saw it it appears BBC worldwide of done a good enough job packaging that but lots of companies around the world do want to buy it.

I mean that you could put that is going to be a curiosity.

Everyone is going to tune in to see what the first episode of Top Gear is going to be like and I think there's been a mix of reality and and PR work going on about the no can Chris Evans drive a car and and talk at the same time.

I am I can almost guarantee that the first clip that you going to see of Top Gear is Chris Evans driving a car and not saying anything and it's a bit of a nod and a wink to the camera.

That's what's gonna happen, because that part of the fun of Top Gear that's

BC it had a did it when it was a whole you know when when Clarkson was there and every time a new story broke when he did something a little bit naughty.

They had a Northern the winker camera and and you would expect that sort of and humour to continue when they're going in for Chris Evans and so that's what's gonna happen, and I think the First season people can watch it.

They Gonna TuneIn and as was always a case of the sort of thing we got to see what happens halfway through the season and when it comes to recondition.

I'm something I probably won't be making a cheeky reference to is what Bob Mortimer the comedian tweeted out this week.

He called Top Gear of time bomb at most of the press covered that can you unpick that story for us what the gutter kind of seems to be the bomb explode it's amazing the one was Chris Evans and Bob Mortimer is close friends with Lisa Clark is the executive who left the production according to the press because she fell out with Chris Evans what about his ego.

Letting anybody was surprised that ended the way it was it doesn't have them anyway.

I think that if you could create a show that is about personalities talking about high testosterone subjects light card, then there's going to be a difficult snorri that issues and you know I'm still have yet to see anybody else come to the fore that could be Chris Evans in this space is as a personality to take on this mantle, so I think that everybody was going to want to see it and you know what if he's difficult and he's going to be at a cricket person to follow.

I would rather it was that way round robin have kind of 3 unknown places that will quite Bland and you ended up getting quite a banana show Arlo what what year was before the rebrand when clocks go along the first place.

Ok the media quiz is along shortly.

That's a bit of clickbait for you, but before we get there.

Let's talk about clickbait if the BBC stopped publishing soft news stories online soft news the commercial sector apparently could grow by 8 million pounds a year at that is according to a government commissioned report.

Alex explain festival what is meant by Soft news and then secondly tell us when you agree soft news is so you move away from the big new so we move away from the EU Debate and certain bits of trumps coverage on the US election we move away from the migrant crisis in Calais we move towards.

I'm in M&S as we move towards interesting things that you will talk about but you won't have your mind changed about it because it's not serious news and the BBC historic Lee has not done enough of it the BBC has a brand the capacity and the audience to work through all of the nonsense on the internet and same as well, which I get Match Attax co.uk is distil that and you write it in a very reputable and truthful way and I commissioned and petitioned and worked hard to make the BBC Two more of it because it's what the BBC

You'll be doing you in the same way as it's TV shows don't have to be either populist or incredibly niche you can do both and you should do both and the BBC has to be where it's audience are aware.

Its audience could be aware its audience wants to be a part of that is distilling the internet into a usable a readable or consumable form.

So they do do a bit of it.

Don't know I'm thinking hear about I think they call it BBC magazine.

Don't know on that there's many which is actually an in-depth feature list are those BBC trending which is mixed media thing with a blog and a video outlet and they appear on BBC World News a lot BBC terrestrial less so and BBC trending picks up trends without being too mean because they have to remember 24 hours after they've been covered Elsewhere and they took the people involved in their money.

They add value to them.

So they can of providing a service of trending news for the people who don't follow training you so that's the government says the BBC might consider stopping doing and you're sending not enough of it the big proposal in the BBC charter was to bring more 1624 year olds into the space and you should not bad.

Magnolia office often used but if you somehow it's been a big part of what they care about as their entry point to what the BBC news service offers then you are well.

You know you are removing the entry point.

So why would I visit you when they visit when BuzzFeed is spending hundreds of thousands of pounds on big series investigations, but your entry point of BuzzFeed is the 17 things that you didn't know about Romford and then you happen to click on this Ernest investigation in partnership with Newsnight the unearth some great conspiracy.

It's the way the market work.

So it can't be the way of the BBC it can't be removed from the BBC at the press Gazette also highlighted on my quotes that the BBC's rival commercial radio stations could get a boost of up to 38 million pounds a year if the corporations music and sports radio Services concentrated on Lower profile sports and offered a broader range of music I mean yeah trousers in that just a version of saying if BBC one was shit more people would watch ITV we know this I'd love it if they were sold the World Cup shouldn't be on the BBC I'd like to see what they are.

Prayer that would be where you would only be able to watch the world couple of the Olympics on on on ITV I imagine that there'll be a few people that are quite upset about that but in radio.

They do suggest it and the talkies and if these rooms were quashed won't like but the talking out there that 5 Live was under consideration that they might move 5 live online.

What do you think of that? I think there's a curious thing that happened in the street and I I think that this is happening faster than television moving online.

I think that radio moving online it is happening at a much quicker speed and I think it was seeing a lot of people listening to Radio via internet connected devices be at their phone or B&B a Sonos system or whatever it might be you there.

There is a definite trend when people are taking their their audio consumption them in or on a podcast you know the people taking the rodeo consumption now digitally and an actually there is a there is an argument to say that that we should be looking at work at the BBC provide more services in that space, but I imagine it would happen organically rather than happening.

Via the disorders of whoever Deezer these regulators are the BBC Travel and pretty sharpish to deny.

They save their thinking about moving 5 live online balix.

Do you think that is feasible the Independent has find BBC Three has moved online is it feasible I think in the long term.

Yes the second that car radios ketchup to Being Digital only absolutely because you think I can't remember the last time.

I listen to a radio when it was actually through an FM signal or even a dab signal the only people listening to Radio other people who are of an older generation or the people who are driving to work.

So that's a lot of people it then they put That's my point to it is a lot of people for the moment, but you can see I think I like you like using organically it's just the people are growing into it and it's easier to consume digital writer.

You don't have to tune a doll you don't have to push buttons you just press go and the iPlayer Radio app is very very good before a new source port station.

You need to be just there that you want app for everyone to be 20 years before we get to the stage where everyone has access to getting the news in the way you're describing.

Turning on the name single have a crack is yet, but I would argue that the things can't get much easier than plugging in your phone to your car and that's getting easier and easier.

They might be for the owner car and have their phone Bluetooth their car will have it as a lining connection people aren't reaching for the dial on their on.

I don't think on their car radio.

They're reaching to plug in the phone and listen to the audio.

That's coming out of there and they made listen to live live radio via TuneIn or via the iPlayer app and out all day.

Maybe listening to you their own music library on on the phone.

That's been happening for quite a long period of time until 20 years away.

I'm a podcast evangelising still 20 years away whatever people turning off saying nothing could be easier than listening to online audio in your car.

That is 20 years away.

I said that with radio is easier.

I've said that before that I can I forget where I wrote it.

I was writing that there is no possible way of the FM signal need to survive and they got these really a number of really frustrating emails about people who live was it going to Thailand and privileged.

There is no way without there is nowhere without a few hours about 4G know where is without 3G except for the my bedroom which is still a black spot.

But everywhere outside London you don't have those receptions and out that's why you have a point but still you can have 10 years you can't have 20 before we go.

There is just time for a media quiz this week.

It is entitled life in Salford with David Attenborough be celebrated zoologist and broadcaster hasn't been to Salford this week, but if he had how would he describes the Potter things stories connected to Media City UK let's find out through my it says here in my script that I haven't read yet excellent impersonations quickfire outside just passing with your name when you know the Salford story at Salix you will say Alexandra as you were saying that they received a complete box set of don't scare the Hare the winner gets Mr Blue rights of this is my apparently excellent impression here comes Salford story number one buzzing when you know the answer and please put me out of my history as the dominant male.

Women's upstream a plane descends on Quay House the wernher insects of the order bloody and they're looking more resilient than the plans for BBC Studios the what's the story is that Peter Salmon leading bbc.co in the lurch bye bye Walking Away yes, because Omar is leaving the BBC as the Guardian reports that Cockroaches have moved into one of the buildings occupied by the corporations and that was why we were doing the net pastry salmon swim upstream.

That was what that was right here is executive impression number to its door and the power in morning the Elder has been taken from them 56 years after his coronation hit salaries at yes, Alex ago the bloke who made Coronation Street has died correct Tony Warren the creator of Coronation Street has died at the age of 79 Collingham the bloke that created Coronation Street identify give you a half term for the sake of.

Today I'll give you a call point in and it's all to play for in the weather for like ages.

They crazy when you 23 or something that's the things come out their choices just very much so you just a boy when he was first like you're such a whippet presenters that cover the night shift.

Reverse the Landscape like so many before but they calls will not be heard in the key tonight for the predatory Salford City Council is near varese about Salford City being bastards, and then finding swearing that is fucking correct the council have plan to curb swearing around Media City UK following complaints from residents, so if you're working in the area including the comedian Mark Thomas is playing at the theatre at they're saying you're not supposed to swear and today.

Congratulations well done for harassment and to Alex Hudson now if you're thinking I'm new to the media podcast but I'm already thinking about how to fit into my busy life on a regular basis than the best way to do it is to subscribe go to the media podcast., and all the things that you need there right into pocket Castle stitcher another on popular programs.

Are there welcome aboard today's show is dedicated to Dr Stuart Higgins the producer of the podcast scientists not the Science human stories from the science world and he loves trying to Score full marks on the media quiz whilst doing experiments in the lab.

I hope my David Attenborough impression didn't just ruined that pleasure for you Stewart plus all the wonderful people who felt Moved by The Sound of Nimrod to set up a regular contribution insuring a long-term survival James Ball Richard Walkington Morris Giles thank you chaps to join the swelling ranks and keep us on the air.

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