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Read this: #41: Would Channel 4 Survive Privatisation? - The Media Podcast with Olly Mann

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#41: Would Channel 4 Survive Privatisati…

Hello and welcome to the media podcast I'm only man on today's show as former comptroller Michael grade ways into the Debate how long has Channel 4 got before it's privatized and how could it's arrived ITV boss Adam Crozier thinks he can run the BBC better than the current Last by merging Radio 4 and 5 Live Adam crazy more like plus Yentob goes TV ad revenue goes through the roof and Indonesia Queen's we tackle the industry's corrections and clarifications.

That's all to come on today's Media podcast and joining me this Friday at the hospital club is the managing director of TV in the lemonade money and at least my V favourite for as it's Faraz Osman hello hello, how are you very well? Thank you for as not only a you back, but it's back ok.

What is it? It's on the internet.

And you put it in your ears.

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I'm a little bit tense.

I can finish this so I can go and find out what's going on.

Is it you think it's going out yet? I haven't heard of yet.

Did you think it's going to be a big news in the first series of course not what is really interesting is the fact that there's not being more serialised podcasts so I thought that I'll be having a real glass of them, but the only other one that im listening to is my dad wrote a porno which is hilarious and you know without wanting to over intellectualize.

It is a serialised podcasts and so you kind of look forward to knowing the next story each week.

I think it's probably been a glass of them commissions and people just haven't downloaded them at quite the same speed, but yes if we somehow I've just a letter due to the fact is the second series of cereal is now live and you feel that tension that you have to press pause on the media vod right now in and chug back 15 hours of was he a killer or not feel free and then come back after it because I know what it's like.

We leave you.

Also joining us in the hospital club is broadcast consultant par excellence Paul Robinson I only hello understand you took on a 380 today the double-decker.

I did I did yes from Singapore to ATF which is the Asian television markets fascinating growing more and more formats coming out of Japan and china.

You know the whole nation businesses.

Just absolutely blooming really because you don't hear a lot about that.

Do you do not cost for a British company? It's a great place to go and sell so you know we're selling stuff to the Asian broadcasters and of course there aren't very many of us there in a few friends.

I bumped into but not many so if you haven't been before I sit next to somebody get on a plane to Singapore and spent a very nice Thai Marina Bay Sands you're probably make a bit of money and you have a great time and you have a go-to.

I guess maybe for British broadcast is it just feels less complicated to take a Dutch format or an Israeli format or a Canadian format than it does.

Let's take the latest thing that big in Hong Kong English so it's not a problem and was I going to say Matt on the plane movies and fell asleep.

What what element ba ba I could have done what I call Summer comedy Focus come as you are aware of the option.

I'm sure on the talkabout used them only recently made some shiny new idents, but now Channel 4 might be changing entirely from a state-owned commercially funded operation to an entirely privatised broadcasting with shareholders and an expectation of profit at this week's former comptroller Lord grade weighting saying it would be a good thing for the channel and that it could become a media powerhouse, but the fact that cost money round Channel 4 used to compare.

Against this very thing at me while David Abram gave an interview to broadcast in which he sounded torn between his role as chief executive of Channel 4 and being a champion for the channel as a publicly-owned body a carnival makes my head hurt this Faraz Channel 4 privatisation it is the kind of thing people sow around as a team and I struggle to actually understand what the options are if you wanted it to stay distinctive then, it's never going to make loads of money for a commercial entity and if they took it then they'd end up coming it down wouldn't they inevitably that part of the problem is people think they went when you have the baby but think that channel for getting licence Lee money which they are obviously not but you could differ quite complicated model to can explain off on an off-the-cuff.

I think you have a commercially funded publicly-owned broadcaster.

Get you know the distinctiveness question has changed significantly from when did Channel 4 first start at you have 4 channels and and kind of been there since it was was important thing now actually being think serve.

You know when you look at things I've Iceland

Confused and you know what a broadcasters and and brands around well-being distinctive.

It says help get your market share so it's so there is a there is a kind of private commercially sensitive to being distinctive now which is why channel 4K TVs be successful, but I think that there's a this idea is in itself lunacy.

I am going to be calling for Channel 4 sui privatised part of the government who won a bit of a cash windfall, but I think that we do need to talk about now.

It's is what the public service that your Channel 4 is U disc of distinctiveness thing is if founded around a lot and Aussie Channel 4 doing a great job all the documentaries, but we now have no children's programme on Channel 4 whatsoever any programming for people under the age of 25 is a bit of a? And they reach continuous decline in that space other than our acquisitions and American space and I think it would be useful for Channel 4 to be put under a bit more pressure to figure out why this is state funded and and what volume is giving 2 to its viewers beyond just so you know bit beyond just the the standard interesting documentaries on.

And gritty dramas, but doesn't point remind Paul that but no private organisation running Channel 4 would keep Channel 4 news like it is for example an hour and I would basically has no one watching but is very valuable private companies going to have that money documentaries on after episodes of a reality for me what you want and we should remember the Channel 4 was dream got over 30 years ago in a market when there are currently three channels.

It was the fourth channel.

There was no sky there was no cable there was nothing else and is designed to do two things it's designed to increase choice but particularly the Independent sector and also to be this publisher broadcast that so other people have access to the airways and the government of the day did not want to allocate licence first row says so decision was made to make it advertising funded now what you say and advertising funded public broadcasters completely a common model we have ITV in the UK and most the public broadcasters around the world are.

Bonded via advertising Water by ABC Australia Layton and again is an ad funded model plus government funding process a very use your model have a public broadcaster public service broadcaster funded by advertising nothing's funny about that.

What is funny about it is the channel for is changed from what it was and maybe now isn't quite sure what it is.

What it should be as you were saying most of its top rated programs are actually acquisitions us acquisitions and in primetime most of the content is US content it does do some great stuff dispatchers and so on amazing great news yet, but there's no reason to say that couldn't that those things couldn't necessarily survive in a public broadcaster sashimi in a commercial interests to do so in terms of the cover making a windfall.

I'm not sure that's the issue the issue is probably will be the neck of listings for Channel 4 to continue doing what it does and spending a huge amount acquiring us content and big government own that doesn't make any sense at all.

It's also in a situation where because it's advertising funded and because he's therefore depends on racings.

Sarah's declining to add together all of the additional channels was launched our previous past years.

It's total share is declining and will continue to decline so Channel 4 in the existing model would have faced a slow and lingering death take the question is what do you want Channel 4 to be and should you rethink the model and I think rethinking the model is in time is right thing but we started.

What do you want Channel 4 to do I think of me is as running an independent production companies is that you know I think we're really blessed in the UK to have that polarity of different models that allow you to think differently in into how you come out of ideas and hopefully get ideas commissioned along the way and I think it's really important to continue to encourage that and what I worry about it at once you have a similar model as Channel 5 and an iTV does and get that almost diminishes choice.

I think Sky subscription model in and that is a good thing because that had its own value.

They have dinner.

Did you very lots of very big ticket items the BBC was obviously complete licensing model.

Broadcast making that she continue and I think having Channel 4 is it kind of third-wave is actually really decent thing and I would say as well is the channel for a really interesting job of yokai get very angry the people that we work with get very angry when Channel 4 make a bad commissioning decision much more so than one Channel 5 do it or when sky do it or even when the BBC does it because it feels like it belongs to the audience in a way that it is important to independent producers and and also the people in that watching the programs as well that I would I would feel that if you turn it into completely public company private company you start to chip away at that level of ownership that the people have about it, and I don't think that is a sentimental thing.

I genuinely think of that helps creativity and it helps people to to push the boundaries.

Are you dating site TFI Friday coming back as as for traits of a lot of people because you want to see more of that an anarchic sensibilities from a new generation and in a new set of brands and

What are worry about his decisions like TFI and Ms you say American accent? They become the norm for Channel like Channel 4 because they're they're going to make profit and wanna make sure they have those big branded hits out the gate above and beyond creating new content.

I should have agree with all of that actually.

I mean only I disagree with about the funding model because I think you had the right there whilst it's nice elevenses back to in TFI Friday so much better to have a new version of the new Young team and also think it's critical that companies like yours now Bazaar in Currys and Phil have a place to do things which are experimental different unique you know distinctive absolutely and if you've Channel 4 couldn't do that that would be a loss to British production, but I don't think that means it can't be private.

I don't think it's about with its private or public about what it's meant to be doing what you wanted to do.

Cos you can find it you could sunny funded commercially and you can build into that breathe in the way ITV is built into it breathe it has to do certain things at certain times ok final point about something David Abram said actually in this.

Interviews he said something was a bit codified, but he said something like I think it's time that that produces started having a view on this situation or something like that.

It was quite clear that he was kind of saying he'd welcome Indies to get together and make a big fuss about this like they have about the BBC and the government doing their child review into that president.

Do you think Innocence there is a bird on all of the vendors to say a lot of us justifier existence on the fabric Channel 4 continues to use it's that there.

There's a the government should be aware that if they make Channel 4 private then companies like ours might not be able to exist what I did is that this is very true.

I don't you know we have done some work for Channel 4 but they aren't the reason we're still alive today in companies do exists on a couple of commissions don't live in now basically because of channel fours Ronnie channel exists because of Channel 4.

I think it'd be very difficult for anybody to argue that the unity in the community exploded once on the

Before it was just control by the BBC and ITV and it's one of the reasons.

Why we have some of the greats formats coming out of the UK as those companies that continue to grow a really interesting job post Big Brother of steadying the ship is privatisation.

I think I've caught them very much by surprise, but the reason it's it's come up is because all the public service stuff that channel 4 was known for and that kind of anarchic irreverent nature the channel for used to be a baseball has slightly gone away and and that's why this conversation is being had and then let's let's be completely honest.

You know and I'm sure that David and Jane and all the guys at Channel 4 would argue the other way, but it does feel to me like when it comes to the primetime stuff when it comes to the stuff to actually generates Revenue and continue to build brand things like Gogglebox things like the jump.

They're all coming from big big Indies where is a smaller in these are most kind of giving these short form places or in a crazy Channel 4 shorts and and that they're looking to decommission a lot of people in that space, but they're they're very small budgets the very Spina they're not companies.

Not the not budgets that you can help.

Our company out of there's a feeling that a from I feel funny in the community is that why you no give us give us a pun at you know we've been mentioned TFI Friday that's that I think I feel does a really good example.

There's no reason why I'm going to say this but running a young independent production company, but there's no reason why that goes can't be opened up to people who who haven't done that face before in a classic Channel 4 way won't your message to be Management Consultants come again.

We need to fill the slot tell us what we should do its flip now works commission is going we want you to make this and you know we'll go to the bigger in these relationships exist and they have an unlimited resources Development Team which was kind of shots out small released as a result Sophie day, does a lot of work that has to come in done to to retrofit all of that as well.

So yes, they said here yesterday the ratings of have kind of stabilized.

Yes, they're winning Awards the are they actually encouraging the Indian market in a way that they should be I think that is quite questionable ok so might actually be a bit of a Tapas together with his Indies to get to upset about this going on at Channel 4 what we were talking.

Jay Hunt actually briefly age is the current controller of Channel 4 she's now been linked to a job in Australia what was that about again then she been in this job couple of times now.

I think but this isn't a beach.

This is a PCSO I really wouldn't surprise me if if she did move on.

I think I need go back to my earlier point of the fact that the bishop has been studied and there were lots? When she came in and there was lots of criticism and it not that seems kind of gone away now.

They have some hits through the ratings are stabilized and and this is the next big question has to be answered it doesn't surprise me that there may be a way of sorting that it is to Cardiff have a bit of a reshuffle to say to somebody else out there.

They want to tackle that problem similar to how you know Danny Kirwan is miss Movin On before licence riri renegotiation of coming up as well, so I think that it wouldn't it would snow this you did say that this is the right time for had to go I guess you'll be going out on a Hyundai comparable gag-pol ABC

ABC of got four channels and clip plaster news channel change radio channels as well play music in kids in a kids and new Sabrina the big Investments are they want to be the BBC they have ambitions like the BBC know they are an example of a government funded broadcaster topped up by advertising and their big challenge is unlike the BBC which has the licence fee.

They are squeezed by the government if they don't do what the government likes and is a challenge the ABC and they have ambitions like the BBC but of course Australia is a much smaller country 40% the size of the UK so they've never got enough money.

So they're always struggling to do things to someone who's worth Channel 4 who's got in a creative background understands budgets understands the UK market.

I think would be very attractive the ABC and she could barely do a very good job that you just come back from Australia after doing a little work out there and and this is pure.

Only anecdotally and I don't have any evidence of statistics about yourself, but but I was almost shocked by the lack of diversity compared to the actual people that I mean I was the Sydney and and Sydney's seems to be very diverse places a lot of people from from Asia and East Asia that they have moved over there in Settle over there and their television really doesn't feel like it's reflective of of the population that out there is out there at the moment and I think Joe coming from Channel 4 and with that remix you to celebrate diversity all be nice to see if that has a positive impact on that network as a result interesting ok right.

Let's talk about it because the Christmas is around the corner then if you noticed I am this Christmas will see a record amount spent on television advertising according to research by zenithoptimedia at Poole 310 million lbs being spent just this month in in December how good is that put that in perspective for us? Well, it's a significant increase on the year-on-year and I think the question to ask is why was interesting of course is that retail?

Happens have fundamentally changed Black Friday being the single biggest change and guess what happened in the past is that the what was normally the biggest retail week of the year with the week Amelia prior to Christmas so intent of This podcast next week will be the biggest weight.

It has no longer being the biggest week in last few years and Black Friday as has changed all that and you have a number of retailers saying actually we would rather not being black Friday but we have to be covered else's driving.

This is about actually trying to really stimulate full price sales just by the Christmas and advertising is being used to do that knuckles TV advertising is the most powerful way of advertising via see if it works if it does I think it could be a sustained growth if it doesn't it could be a blip people can be surprised to hear you say that TV advertising is the most powerful form of advertising digital ads are on the right aren't more focused and more targeted, but it's also more expensive in terms of reaching mass people and they're radio guy but TV

Is the most powerful advertising me there's no question about that is beyond dispute going to overtake TV eventually on 2017 mirror indicator lever.

I would argue this alliance housing is far more irritating than television advertising and and I have always wondered about what that does cool people's brands and it when you get these pop-up ads when you get these pre rolls in particular Around video.

They are incredibly frustrating people have engage with content you know when you have some online services in you have to watch 3 30 second adverts.

We cannot get to your content that is something that's as as a poor negative experience and where is a television you know there is a and adopted language that has been learnt over and a number of Generations which allows people to watch with their content take a Break season advert an annexe.

Didn't I feel it's more accepted and and the celebration of good advertising on television John Lewis advert.

They're all the way talks about every year is part of that.

I think very few people talk about an amazing online advert.

Is a pre-roll to YouTube video the wotwots particularly interesting is what YouTubers done around YouTube red and it an addition to that the fact that Facebook and YouTube started to and Google and and all of these digital brands are advertising on televisions for me that says something really significant about what what these brands have made an obscene amount of money from advertising model film about television when it comes to breaking through with with their own brand awareness and I think I think YouTube red.

Is it is it is incredibly interesting because it's saying if you want YouTube red is a new subscription service where you can pay a monthly subscription to YouTube to not watch any advertising and it's come off the back of the popularity of about blockers.

Where people are installing plugins to to avoid advertising and broadcasters in this country have been blocked users who use ad blockers and watching any of their content as a result it is weird online war between consumers to avoid advertising online and broadcaster Lewis

We need to survive but you would.

You know we have Sky Plus and we have kind of PDR allowed to skip adverts and and fast forward through them, but you're still seeing the brands you still coming fast forward in a bit that 30 + speed but people couldn't accept it and and I think that's allow brands to continue to you to use television to to thrive and I I I think that this is where television becomes really powerful and it's why Netflix and iPlayer I've been so successful, because I don't have any advertising whatsoever it means you can get your content straight away as there's a real value in in the fact that if you want to advertise TV is still the best place.

I just did wonder Paul whether some of the secret behind these rising figures in TV ads is actually to do with digital because people make video campaigns are they going to put up on YouTube and there's a symbiosis between the two if it's welconstruct campaign well as you were saying you know they've also got his new brand categories.

You know at all the distal brands advertising on television, so they affect the new ttv bringing more money, but you know I agree with what you

How do you say if you want to build a brand you can't do it online building a brand is about an emotional connection.

It's about combination of great creative music images in motion emotional thing and you can do that really well on television much less easy to do that on online not least because you're different mood.

He has a different mindset and the other point I think about online videos you shouldn't forget the term online videos not just YouTube no, there's three models of paying for online video subscription and is transactional or its advertising and advertising is only about a third of the total revenue Croods 2 online video so people are choosing to either download to own all those choosing to go to rent by Netflix or Amazon Prime will never ever all they can have YouTube and the 3D models is also interesting not this YouTube but the YouTube kids app launched in the UK 3 weeks ago and is already being negative reaction to advertising on pre roll.

Kids programme some parents saying I don't want my 2-year-old watching an ad for an insurance company before they see Peppa Pig because that's what's happening yet in that particular example and briefly as fascinating out with the kids at this idea brand integration which people say is less irritating than the pre-roll video that's very problematic when your dog eating children isn't it is a model that I think will continue to grow and I think it is a useful model as well.

I think that people would have it with a bit suitable for induction 18 children and parents are going to be safe is a very different significantly different models address the television, but I think that the ability to to make back and revenue out of it and then said it worldwide particularly with things like animation of things like Peppa Pig if you get kids TV right you can become very rich of secondary rights of the off the back of it which is why was where the value? Is there selling insurance advert against the Peppa Pig is it is a little bit silly.

I I think they're but we will start seeing his brand endorsements.

Product endorsement within Peppa Pig for the things that you can then end up going to Toys R Us and buying a related to that that programming it feels like that's a bit dirty, but when you actually look at what things that Star Wars doing you know they are creating prodding films and the first thing that you saw that new Star Wars trailer was a toy that you could be by the last 2 months now.

He knows what the character is it DBA but you can go and buy one and anybody wants one.

I don't know why but you just want my because it looks cool and they are showing that that is actually what works when it comes to that sort of person work a Disney about this new product placement works really well when there's strong engagement by consumers with the product so will Star Wars no one's unhappy about Star Wars toy example of Star Wars are going to watch the movie bloody got a list of Jar Jar Binks well.

Hey this is Judge things before getting charged if the movies not so good or the contest not engaging parents are really unhappy about festival really unhappy about having a toy RAM down their throat and being forced to buy cos the kids are zostrix is seeing the advert of product placement in the program.

Of the show they're quite happy to pay for it.

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I will get back to the median using just a minute but before we do you been hearing me Brother on about supporting this show since September when we're at the radio festival and since then every single episode of this has been funded by you my interview with David Schneider and David Levin funded by you radio analysis with Matt Deegan funded by you our carefully chosen pundits from across print and broadcast and online there.

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Other is a one-off or is a regular payment and you can even do it from your mobile pause the pod give generously and hopefully we'll see you next year ok back to the shack can't attack of the other stories of the week first up ITV their chief exec Adam Crozier was in front of the commons culture media and sport Select Committee on Tuesday and he took the opportunity to discuss his broadcasters Commitments to regional broadcasting.

I'm joking of course not he discuss the BBC at 4 as what did he say about auntie? You said something about BBC 4 on BBC Two and five Live and Radio 4? Why did they axe BBC3 there are all sorts of savings they could make and then outlined three or four completely meant.

Riding it's looking good.

So what did you make of his suggestions? Well? This was that Adam Crozier positioning himself wasn't it a minute? It's pretty transparent what he was doing and what was he doing ITV I've got their own challenges and the more that sir Crozier can put the BBC back into distinctive box the better.

ITV is going to do so course he's going to push for the BBC to be a retreat.

It's Tanks of a number of known to be possibly can get them to reverse a thing was one of the things clearly.

Do you want a BBC that's popular with a range of programs or do you want to BBC correcting market failure and chilli Adam Crowe's you would like the latter.

He's not going to get it, but I don't blame him for trying his ideas were rather rather poor.

I mean that the BBC Three thing.

You have to save some extent.

He has a point in the centre if the BBC would say hey we're more efficient now.

No one ever believe them and the baby.

Do you have become more efficient? Could he become more efficient still yes, they could but pretty BBC Three online.

It's not a crazy idea.

It does say it a bit of money.

Not a lot but the real budgets of seeing the commission is a way of flagging out.

We have got problems make the BBC is generally feeling tight and I meant in terms of its finances generous feeling that in terms of the the ideas.

I'll talk about the Radio 1 because that's the most crazy absolutely phone and I spent a lot of time on the the strategy for this bed.

Is me who devised a strategy for Radio 4 Radio 5 kg are completely different services server complete different audiences doing completely different things there is no way the BBC could have a live sport service offering for example every time every Premier League game if it was on Radio 4 is it yet Radio 4 schedule would not work anymore as one reason apart from many other so that was a bonkers idea it also won't say very much mean radio.

Very cheap radios really cheap.

It's like 10 minutes of Eastenders you know what's the point? I also would like to see what would happen if they suddenly put 606 on Radio 4 Extra the crazy idea because I think I think it quite clear that he doesn't listen to Five Live and so there's there's a problem when you have people that have judgements about what these brands are and what they do.

I imagine the reason that im crazy races has suggested this is because he feels like five live is a talk channel and it's you know a lot of it stuff is around sport and radio for Daventry Sport Android no should it be sport and let you know kind but going back to the B3 argument and I'll go on my soapbox about this again where he is correct his is when it comes to BBC3 what's happened there in and it's kind of an argument is continue to be successfully swept under the carpet.

Bye bye.

Bye the bigwigs at BBC live cut 30 million pounds from

Services for young people to invest into drama and it's my belief that we don't need another 30 million pounds worth of public money invested into drama when you have so much choice with drama across the board including things like Amazon with high Castle when and what Netflix doing in a commission their first UK Drama and ITV are a big drum supplier as well.

I'm not necessarily believe that you need to have the BBC investing another 30 million lbs into that space, but what you doing.

It is and I think everybody across the board agrees it on this is that there is a lack of services for teenagers, but particularly British teenagers in the UK and there is a market correction that needs to be done there in addition to market correction.

There is also a gap in the market.

That is probably going to be filled by ITV2 Andy for that is only a thing that are you know BBC gonna lose that on as a result talking of the telly for younger people are Disney of just doubled their stake in vice Media at just as the Media Group inbox all an expansion into broadcast TV would you think about those plans?

Seems to be the people are investing advice at the time of moving away from what has made them successful, but they've actually decided they do want to be on linear television at a time when we be having an argument for a very long time of the BBC saying young people don't watch video television anymore.

It is obviously something bizarre going on there in the first instance but I do wonder about this.

How's it going to continue their credibility to be the anarchist voice for young people when they've got investment from Murdoch an investment from Disney that's me suggest that there's going to be a significant problem in them convincing young people that they are and authentic rebel voice that they originally were in when I first started Springs back to channel 4 on coming away.

Doesn't it fall because you'd end up possibly with a massive American corporation like Disney buying Channel 4 will be one of those big companies who would swoop in and buy a new do lose distinctiveness when that happens.

If your audience and immediately aware of it well, I think Disney buying Channel 4 is almost unlikely is almost not worth discovering forward to seeing a big company like that well, as that doesn't diluter vision of what you can only makes sense to say because of big company or there.

Will do the same things that said that's not a sensible route to go Discovery could possibly be a buyer.

I think the boiling point is that is national Tyre Kickers and so this may be a bit of taking them then dispose again got any you executive control this point so it's purely an investment for them.

So maybe she's going to be whether consumers are aware of the Disney chatting with their daughters their perception of the Brand and secondly whether the management allowed to continue doing what they do well in and do that despite the shareholding if Disney was take a controlling interest would have executives there it would fundamentally change it because Disney do things the

Disney do it soon as I know that very very well.

I think this is because Disney want to understand what they say about they think I have got some tools.

They haven't got they want to learn about voice.

That's what this is about 80 V clear the Disney looking to target young men with the recognition of Marvel and their access to the Star Wars they've done some interesting move to kind of branch out from having been very successful with younger girls and and you know frozen is a huge example of that and that's a yes.

I think that's just going to take it off and adding actually the Disney Channel when you look at things like Hannah Montana and and High School Musical then and hit the continuation of the it does feel like this Q more female Marvel has been a massive successful acquisition for them in reaching an audience that it never really spoke to previously this could be another one of those but I think of more question marks about wife.

What does it mean for Vice rather than modest need for Disney Disney will do this and it worked for them great.

If it doesn't work for them who cares a list of what USP end and that we can.

Can you get ABC in an orderly have a massive brands will be interesting to know how by Savannah continue to be this rebel brand they do they claim to be when you're taking a better look like this if I do continues to be a rebel brand it be interesting to see what they do to make his Christmas parade.

I don't know if there will be a nice place if the Radio Academy had a Disney parade.

They would have cost base it around their annual Hall of Fame Paul who were joining the ranks this year, so we've got two ni hao Victoria Derbyshire and Frank Skinner so I guess that probably ticks all the buttons very nicely for them.

Nihal Victoria Derbyshire Frank Skinner Frank Skinner not beating radio very long has it I know you said he is actually that ironically most famous in the Hall of Fame but he's not really radio guys.

You have to remember those on the racing.

It's linked to a luncheon and after sell tickets and frankel sell tickets.

I would rather see if you but you know that is someone who is the former.

Little bit before he has to eat very good breakfast show that it when you look at Christmas and all those guys in your tracks in that city.

He was the calling card for Absolute Radio for a little while.

I was need to monitor your personal connection to for our wedding last year.

That's that's my claim to fame is what does it mean was the Hall of Fame mean in names winter charges mortar DJ wedding creative director over the kids company controversy, let's not go over all that again but for as we miss him.

What's left of the BBC's now in Crisis no one really knows what it stands for a week does any.

Could you obviously not true? I think that we still got to do imagine going to do imagine still going to run BBC films but not report directly to Tony Hall how's that gonna work? We could we did scratch the head when it comes to Alan Yentob being as creative director to be seeing what it actually men and Morty where is influence was and it did he did he decide on what the graphics look like on Strictly Come Dancing I am not entirely sure you know what his job description wasn't how it works Paul's not laughing.

Paula you again top apologist.

I'll meeting is dinner disappear come and go you know he wouldn't have his minutes.

It was always to shambles couple of comments and then it was always going back to the 90s.

I am just disappointed that term Adam Crozier didn't pick up on Alan Yentob news that we are far more promises that would be absolutely.

Saving money, isn't it good with all My Loving good with telling? That's what they say about you and told before we go.

There's just time for our Media quiz this week.

It is entitled mistakes were made in the cut and thrust of journalism sometimes the story slips out that needs to be corrected, but why why have these publications apologized this week? It's quick fire quiz has ever see buzzing with your name for as you say about the over and pull you say Paul very good.

Let's go the winner get Sports Personality of the Year of a loser is Tyson Fury he is question number one.

Why did ITV News apologise this week's buzzer an early-onset for a love story intimates.

It is amazing CCTV did a little feature on Lenny Henry and his amazing work in diverse in television Lenny Henry selling Henry's childhood and they decided to show all the good work.

He did by playing a clip of him dancing with maracas.

She wasn't him.

It was actually Aintree Harriet from Ready Steady Cook innocent mistake.

I'm sure yeah.

I mean they haven't said have they never apologise they haven't said how the mistake happened in fairness and it's still ultimately comes down to the fact that someone took two black men look the same but in fairness.

It was a clip of Ainsley Harriott at the comedy store it wasn't Ainsley Harriott cooking so it was you can see that amazing place outside is enticing someone obviously final be incorrectly in the archive but then no one seemed to notice until after it was far too late and pull my favourite moment of this was the screen grab that someone on Twitter did of when ITV plus one played out the News at Ten and they've not that little warning sign.

We're unable to bring this to your region at the moment.

There was a highly embarrassed very quickly well.

They should be secular.

He is question number to why has the some sad songs this week or Paul so this is a reporter who allegedly travelled from Turkey to Paris without actually showing his passport once big headline story on the sun.

Apparent it was untrue he showed his passport at least one so what he's twice married in Croatia getting in there to Zagreb we could have took the song that you are not properly checking this story out there running a big front page story saying are journalist are guy travels across the group that many refugees have done and look it doesn't his passport check twice as this was a freelance journalist.

They presumably believed that he was putting his own reputation on the line by saying this had happened.

I mean in as much as anything that the guy Emile ghessen.

This was his fault wasn't for claiming that he done this thing.

Yes, he got his big Scooper them now.

He looks stupid and he looks like he tried to come the paper.

No one cares about you.

Just care about the headline in the fact that you put something like that on the front page of the papers that doing your appropriate checks and balances about the stories.

True is scandalous like it is the BBC or indeed if something like that sky would have them for breakfast.

It's it's just completely inappropriate and I don't understand why the red top press continue to be able to do not use a red top right at the present general continue.

Able to get away with this it's it's you know they've they're putting called lack of regulation on lack of really regulation with teeth if somebody from background and deeply offensive when you have these things like you no one in five Muslims agree with Isis and now you know you can be a Syrian refugee and get across the board of value problems whatsoever.

It's not helpful in any way shape or form.

It doesn't do anything to do the Bandit particularly cause even more problems and it's is simply untrue which it which is fine like that your point but what about my point the journalist who actually said that he done this and obviously hadn't that was there a long-term error for him wasn't it? I mean that the sun not going to employing again, but if you know the phone hacking scandal and people of continue to do wrong doing it's the paper.

It's the sun that continue to make money out of the stories.

They're the ones that have the influence no the ones that profit at the end of the day.

Son failed to check we don't know that's the question am asking this guy resume reclaimed.

He's actually done this to get the story and to get the peace the question is why did the sun not check that it's still didn't match Tom latchem there rifling through Adele's at Xscape as far as I'm concerned.

Did you see into the sun on time? We had a good time when she was a child is the tiebreaker question number three who is BuzzFeed refusing to say sorry to after calling them quote a mendacious racist Donald Trump mendacious racist on their social media wasn't opinion but a matter of fact.

Comments continue to gain press and they continue to create Debate and that's why we're having a massive petitions and you know Katie Hopkins today said something around radius like 25% of the UK population degrees of Donald Trump and it's it's just continues to be nonsense but but the yo Trumps campaign is I want to get quite clever because that can make them more than actually is but we have clear the what he's doing.

It every time is Paul slip he puts out something outrageous to get money on Fox and friends again.

Well here at the media podcast we are always fair and balanced and the audience can transparently here 4 hours that you are today's winner congratulations my thanks to Faraz Osman and to Paul Robinson remember you can subscribe to this program on your phone and then it'll download as soon as it's ready by the magic of podcasting just visit the media podcast.

Come and find out.

How are today's episode is dedicated to these fine upstanding citizens Adam Barry John Collins Steven Taylor and Simon Woods in years to come songs shall be written about them.

Cos they are like got simile these wonderful people should be lauded for setting up recurring payments which allows us to plan shows not just in a fortnight, but forever massive.

Thanks uhod Mr fa casella Lewis Mail Alison Ross and you were my card and Edmund baker who asked us to check out the neon Saints brass band a funky hip hop brass onslaught from Brighton UK debut album out now check out neon Saints brass band wherever you get your tubes to join me swelling ranks and keep us on the Earth please go to the media podcast / dedicate give us some money keep us on air intakes 1-minute.

Do it now at thanks very much.

I've been Olly Mann the producer was Matt Hill and the media podcast is a PPM production till next time bye bye.

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