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Read this: #32 - Chris Evans gets BBC out of a tight corner - The Media Podcast with Olly Mann

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#32 - Chris Evans gets BBC out of a tigh…



Hello and welcome to the media podcast I'm only man on today's show Chris Evans is to host the new Top Gear Isle pundits discuss the deal and what changes we can expect the BBC's long-running car, show me speak to the director of radio indie falling tree about releasing their archive online and asking why don't more in these do that plus Rupert makes way for JS stepping down as executive from 21st Century Fox apple aims to reinvent news and the Sunday Times feels the Wrath of Glen green.

Well.

That's all coming up on today's Media podcast can we hear as ever at the hospital club? It's a beautiful sunny day and yet despite the fact that are roof terraces.

Where people are drinking cocktails in the sun shine bright now.

We are in a dark part of a darkroom inside what light from yonder window.

It is Maria Williams Radio executive and founder of Sound women hello Maria hello, you're cheering.

Not The Gloom and also making his debut on the media podcast Damien Collier the founder of viral spiral hello, hi ok, let's go through each of you intend because Maria you seems to be one of these people I lost people I know in radio actually seem to have about 10 part-time jobs going on at 1, so there's some women Comic Relief that's what season of this obviously, what do you up to now recovering from comic relief then going on a 24-hour through the night bender with Dermot O'Leary so at my advanced years you you need a few weeks leap to catch up on that but now I'm doing I'm doing a lot of work with some women at the moment.

We are at refocusing herself with 3 years old.

Got a big kind of a way day next week to set our goals for the next kind of year.

So actually really exciting time for us and then of course.

I'm doing lots of very interesting very secretive commercial stuff.

I would love to tell you all about that.

I have signed non-disclosure agreements are not allowed to say anything now part of Rights there is a company that you set up.

Explain to briefly what it is people who haven't heard that term before ok.

Yeah absolutely Cyril spirals hold goal in life is to connect brands agencies Studios networks with trending content social media content and social influences to basically help those brands agencies produces leverage the power of what is going viral and social influencers to promote their brand ok, so to decode back even further basically you take it off the internet and you sell them to advertisers really and Talent content and Talent ok.

So give us an example of like a big viral hit that you've taken an and synergize with a brand new absolutely will probably the most the most viral video on YouTube is Charlie bit my finger which was actually the first video that we signed for management under viral spiral to date.

It's just pushing probably a billion views in total on on YouTube you had a big piece of content of a child doing a finger.

Monetised anyway on the YouTube platform by YouTube to adsense programme The pop-ups that you see in the pre rolls, but as I said viral spiral Airlines content with brand so content brands that are interested in working with the family, so we we made the video with delta.

We've worked with Coca-Cola Samsung Sony on on arrange different campaigns wear with a lined social video and trending video at Maria I'm in the world that you're in there.

Do you actually stumble across viral stars because it's one of these things gets talked about a lot and unquestionably of them and says there's money in it but actually do you think the public walking around on the street underneath right now.

I'll talking about things they saw on YouTube I think they still on BBC One I think about exactly those big viral YouTube Stars I'm just a few months ago and I asked my 14-year-old daughter the time.

I ok to a little bit of research in ok, then who's who's big on your radar because I know she watches them like I had a list of 15A.

With detailed where they lived what they were good at you know she is on that computer Holly the worst parent the world.

She's on it all the time and she started logging herself all inmates of logging herself.

So I think it is a particular section of the public in I'm very sure that you know my mum isn't doing the same thing but for that generation and this is exactly the challenge that Ben Cooper and Radio 1 have at the moment that's his driving a life.

That's who they talking about it's totally and I think what Ben done is really smart.

You know im getting Dan and Phil on to Radio 1 in taking sprinkle of glitter on all those big stars and some you know new up-and-coming stars and just really welding them into the fabric.

So that people like the 14 year olds at my daughter's school.

They will come across radio by accident because I don't listen to radio any of them.

I'm sorry to break this to Ollie they don't listen to Rosemary and that's how they're finding radio and I'm coming down and go my mum I found something.

Exciting Dan and Phil you know Amy causing taking a deep breath because I've been saying you know and my kind of you know really.

Would you like to try some cultural radio? You know this time couldn't get her to the Barbican getting in and suddenly found on the internet discovered.

They were cool with her friends boom.

She's a listener ok teenagers, so let's move on to talk about something we can definitely relate to and that is there 90s telly remember that ugly bloke that look like it is all kicked off again.

Didn't it last week because they're TFI Friday came back on Channel 4 of course but it's been an even busier week this week for Chris Evans has just a couple of days after that.

He was announced as the new host of Top Gear both of these events the relaunch of TFI and Chris at Top Gear have been warmly received by the public and commentary at 4 now.

They're bound to be an eventual backlash there.

Isn't there all that he's got a 5 million pound deal from the BBC apparently to help soften the blow and Maria's you think this was a canny choice by the BBC do you think that was good timing for them announcing it now get the TFI Friday thing out the way and then.

Phone Chris evans's hosts Top Gear mean, it sounds like the Top Gear timing was you know it just went out its own pace.

I thought I'd listened to Chris talking about it and he that it really struck me how respectful everybody was actually that he wouldn't enter negotiation until the BBC had done the deal or not done the deal with May and Hammond everyone seems to have behaved after the initial event where nobody was very weird.

They really seem to have done it.

I think very well very smoothie.

I think Chris is really smart choice.

He clearly love scars.

He's great on telly.

He will appeal to that demographic the whole kind of Ethos of Top Gear is it only adds to hell with site health and safety you know and that's what crystal so well.

He's really brilliant at taking those kind of Maverick moments and running with them and being seen as I don't know how closely scripted is he has his brilliant ability to make everything look like he's just thought of it and it's just of the powerful though.

I know he works so hard at it.

You know there's a lot of skill and making it look that simple.

Actually, it would be a smart move to Jessops lottie mean in the clocks and roll.

I mean as is very suggestive some synergy between their approach against how they do that kind of show something that feels spontaneous or do you think actually bearing in mind Top Gear was a reboot any way of the old show with tiff needell and Quentin Wilson and all the rest of it should they actually reboot it again? I think you know the most important thing is that they let Chris go in the direction? That's most natural to him because he know he he has built up this this personality and if it feels Force They're gonna lose a very loyal audience and I think that's the risk.

I think it's a great move for Chris as well.

You know it is Chris has had great success here in the UK and maybe in some overseas territories first Top Gear I think is viewed in something like 200 countries.

I meant including in the US and this might just give him the disorder profile internationally and domestically in the states that that can take him to the next level though his I haven't heard discussed yet, which is the question of

Yes, want of a better phrase class.

I think something that Hammond and may and Clarkson resonate with us audiences with is the fact that they all talk a bit like they went to public school and they have that kind of joshing with each other which Americans believe everyone in England has Chris Evans doesn't have that he's got a Northern accent is very soft to people actually live in England you let me notice any more register it but he does he's clearly from a different background.

Do you think actually he'll be embraced by an international audience in quite the same way.

He doesn't seem to me to be quite so quintessentially British as they imagine I think that Clarkson was I think you just look at James Corden and the success that he's not having over in the States and heating as he hardly speaks with the with a plumbing is now so I have think you know Chris is Sid of charismatic and I think he's English learning often that's all you need it to breaking in the States so I think you will well however good.

He is he is a man and wanting that's come up is whether there should be a female co-host BBC 2 controller.

Kim shillinglaw said there will be no gender diktat at Top Gear vs.

What Chris Evans himself actually said when he was first interviewed about it, which was 100% will be a female co-host rolling back a little bit from that now and I think he said they'll definitely be a woman involved in some way, but she might not be a co-host should be well.

I would love it if a woman was on the kind of panel of course, but I think it has to be the right person for the job and I think that's what king was saying one of the things we know about the Top Gear audience more than anyone else is if you impose somebody on them.

They don't think is worthy they don't like they will just walk in it's a very fragile kind of trust they have in in in that sense Sue Perkins when she was mooted completely you know and reliably as one of the rumoured replacements for Cox and got death threats like really proper trolling nasty going to do bad things to you death threats so I think they have to tread very carefully and get the right person for the job but

Would also say I would say that Jodie Kidd would be one of the best people have a job and one of the other things that keep the Christmas Ed and I love the fact that he's really come out and being involved in this only because when he was on radio Holly Samos as part of the team.

You know he's always had women in teams around her very sexually active how many is a grandad now you know he's much older mother on Radio 2 and that's it.

That's not such as identified by said he'd said is when he goes to Goodwood and I'm not a cough and actually so I did I don't plan to go to bed.

I have a cousin who goes to Formula 1 like all over the world so I know there are women in Uno interested and knowledgeable about racing and Chris said when he goes to women he sees women there all the time in the crowd and he said you know he felt they should be represented and it's and women that Sara argument the entire time.

It's not just about having a body so if somebody says of you got a female presenters amigos.

Yes, it's all the wealth of experience and life experiences that woman brings to the role, they might just ask a different question you know that are than a blade would ask if you'll never find Angela Rippon was involved in the beginning in O that shows has a history of having women involved should you have to have a woman for the job? You have to represent all audiences male and female and so it just makes sense, but as soon as soon as somebody says to present it and Fritz represent 50% of the audience in your views.

So you are I would like her to be a woman but I think I just think this is one of the difficulties.

We have as soon as you say there has to be a woman or any woman who gets there is tokenism she's not there because she's good enough.

She's bad because there has to be a woman and all I would say is it's blindingly obvious that there are brilliant women out there Jodie Kidd just been one example, but I think I think.

You know you have to find the right woman in the same way that you weren't just put any bloke on it as we were moving really knows her Motors because you know I fat had a straight line the other day that was being average is a male privilege is going to sound me like hot femminista, but you know you do have to be twice as good afternoon.

If you're a woman is business, so she's going to have to really know stuff, but she's also going to have to be part of a gang because of culture of Top Gear is mates talking.

I don't have to be three blokes you know but they have to be mates and I think that's one of the other things actually that has been very much part of his career over the years.

You know just watching a bit of TFI Friday with Will McDonald he has friends.

You know that they start off as friends will become friends and you can't fake that and I think that's why there was so much authenticity about Clarkson and may and Hammond because they were mates blessings pick up that TFI Friday point because you know we obviously focus on top here cos that's the big news, but since I last episode we had that revival of TFI Friday and Channel 4 rated really well better than anything else in that slot for you.

And immediately people so let's bring it back.

It seems to me.

I thought they should be saying is let's create a spontaneous Fun live show with bands of the moment that audiences would like to they're not really saying let's bring Chris Evans back from the 90s.

Are they know you need a version of Chris Evans real 90s somebody to take it forward so why hasn't happened baby? Why don't we have a show like that on telly now.

It's a good question I mean when you think back to that period of time when you had the word you had all those other similar shows it was a great year of the TV and then we don't really have it.

I think it's absolutely something they should consider bringing back whether it should be Chris Evans or someone else has plenty of great Talent and get his I suspect that commissioners listening to this would say what the reason we wouldn't do that is what you were talking about the Beginning you know what young people are watching YouTube and they're watching clips on on their iPads and they won't watch it a two-hour long telly show on a Friday night, but but surely that second contact with were really well in 5 minute clips.

Nowadays having said that on TFI Friday did they said that to the guy who came back said? Oh, it's not on YouTube when it will be me.

Something that you could be part of and there isn't very many TV that has that radio sense of kind of Uno live unravelling could go anywhere you were still in the pub, but I think it is part of that live experience that is very rare on TV are you getting on General Election nights? You know where everyone is Saturday cos something is Happening and you want to be part of it and your tweeting along so actually viral Easter opening also while speaking people are consuming content on YouTube they are consuming content on Netflix in others very much this second screen experience that's going on why people do actually still have TV on off in the living room whilst looking through Facebook or they're watching YouTube or you know people become episode of a a world of of Distraction really now doesn't mean that these shows one succeed on TV either in the background are in the foreground depending on what you're focusing on ok and from Anarchy rock and roll comedy TV makes sense to segway.

Only on this show into Conservative MP Jess

Norman who is been chosen as the new chair of the culture media and sport select committee and the committee scrutinises a broad range of issues from grassroots investment in football to BBC charter renewal it last year John whittingdale is now the culture secretary Maria would we know about Jesse Norman nothing about an hour ago when I googled it? So he's a he's West Midlands MP and that's what I think is really interesting actually and it seems to me that actually all the candidates for the job had quite similar views except.

He said he wanted to get more money particularly more money in from the BBC invested back in the West Midlands and it's interesting because I started off at pebble Mill many years ago and you know we've seen Salford Media City boom.

We seen Scotland boom and I'm not I'm going back to Birmingham for a long time but the people I know who have been going to the BBC in a in a production since you have been from the BBC Academy you do training and from HR

So actually I'd love it to become a really massive kind of hot house of creative Talents but I'm also very where that I know about to get lots of emails probably from people working in Birmingham doing amazing stuff cheaper than it is the Birmingham Post has been campaigning for more investment from the BBC and they've done the research.

They claim that 90% of the revenue collected from licence fees in the region is spent elsewhere.

I don't know if that's troubling statistic or not.

I mean if you waited the whole country by population most people live in London don't mind probably wouldn't see the equivalent amount actually spent in the city anymore because it's regionalising Birmingham and I really and I was working at Radio 4 features that you can pop down and Alan Titchmarsh would be doing some show from pebble Mill and I had to come to London because there was nowhere really for me to go there.

You know it was a very small operation it felt very small at the time.

I was really excited that music I wanted to work at Radio 1 and and you know suddenly somebody really wants.

The same work in a city and her money for that city and buy house in that city and be part of it have to come down to London and I wonder how many other people are colours that he listening to this podcast working in London you know trying very hard to afford their rent or a folder flower whatever and actually you know if there had been opportunities more opportunities better opportunities bigger opportunities around the country would of been happy to either stay or move there.

So I've always been a really big fan of fan of Salford I think it's a great outing is important that that money gets shared around and I you know I would love to see Birmingham become and Bristol actually become really keep answer that as well another basis, but but become bigger and only miss the Old conversation in the sense that your clients at their conversation about what city they leave but about what they need to leave there in house decorating thing about YouTube and 10 digital media that you can record from home.

You know I think what would what we've been talking about with Jessie is is a separate topic which is if if the middle.

If money is being spent in a certain region and 90% is going elsewhere you can understand why the residents feel aggrieved that he does play in the parliamentary jazz band across party jazz band which for me actually is a big red flag her but for the people may be positive labour like you can say that im shows like this.

So you'll be like ok.

Yeah, you quite cool actually called before we go to the brake.

It's been over 10 years since the terms of trade were rewritten between the BBC and Independent Radio companies while some of sold programmes made for The Corporation overseas, mum not a single indeed has released their back catalogue online until now the company is called falling tree.

They make shows like shortcuts with Josie Long on Radio 4 and I'll producer Matt Hill was taken through their archives by the director Alan Hall 300 programs most of my half hour.

SO45 minutes I guess Katie Birmingham's heel toe stuck together which won the Sony in 2011 come on.

Let's have a little dance YouTube of your really limping back programs might buy some of our great freelance contributing producers like pipe.

Malinowski and Nina Perry if my farts will eat clouds passing over here summary sky Harvey Keitel like a low dense, thunderstorm working at every edge of the Horizon is slightly unusual things like that programme about that one unused feature Sony X 903 streets of houses up in flames a father and other member roundabout trying to get hose pipes the smoke and the flames and the dust and the ice.

Astral where the point of doing it is the radio is a medium that's written in there, so it's never captured and held any where it goes out and he's lost that's one thing and the other is it is also a medium that really has very little sense of memory a member Mark Berman at the BBC saying this some years ago which is kind of why you end up with the same programs about bees being made every 18 months and our relationship perhaps through your more recent experiences of consuming podcasts there's an expectation that are not only that would you find a single program but you'll find a whole series of programs in your bed and been on them to consume the whole of cereal.

Are you be able to go back to endless episodes of 99percentinvisible order it happens to be we're offering something similar with saying yes, there wasn't just the latest edition of

Tween years that we produced but you can also go and find anything else produced by pipe.

Malinowski or Rachel Hooper or Eleanor McDowall or myself.

Why don't you think more Indesit on it's a certain amount of time than it took a certain vision as well vision for this really was Eleanor McDowall spots it comes down to the nature of what we've done the sorts of programs that we make which tend to be sort of bespoke crafted features that can exist out of time they're not they're not topical.

It's not like we're running of A Business Show or a sportspace Hemel something that would date I was so excited when I found that the in Sweden there's an extra form of saying I love you that you only use when you're really sure you say I love you in them for this year's day.

I really love you.

Where in the situation now which is dominated by American podcasts rightly or wrongly that's the perception before that there wasn't really anything very much within the UK Piers Plowright before him.

There was the Canadian Glenn Gould possibly Charles Parker and then and then you can have back in the early days.

There's been so much else so what we try to demonstrate is that Aaron small corner you are offering up what we can that? There's a whole range of other kind of ways of doing radio listening to it.

Not just the experience of the last 6 or 12 months from America the BBC's new charter is up for renewal.

What do you think of the current state of the radio independent sector is it working with the BBC in the right way the Mechanics of the commissioning process could be can be debated endlessly are there too many independent companies.

Betty few starts too many slots should there be more repeats should material be available in different ways, I think it is should should BBC Radio as an institution perhaps be more conscious of its potential younger audience.

I think they make it such efforts will appear to make such efforts to get to younger listeners, but then these younger listeners have suddenly appeared listening doing something else and listen to other things and what we find out by having our own company archive on a handheld device like the one I'm holding means that we are instantly reaching people who wouldn't necessarily turn on Radio 4 The American experience suggests recently that maybe if your brand your program is strong enough.

You don't need to station 99percentinvisible proof that and it could well be that we see some of those established Public Radio programs from the States

Losing their ties to stations in some existing independently that won't happen here in the same way in the UK because the conditions are different in the landscape is different the model is different but it will probably begin to happen.

I'll sing if something.is to work on mixing it on Radio 3 that was decommissioned after 16 years and then existed on resonance happy to migrated to residents or around next move is the laundry music podcast which is quite well developed as a as a for mash and that will have Vodafone to do or nothing really to do the BBC you or traditional means of dissemination.

It's going to stay in this new Sofia and that's made independently by you that's that's made and funded by us somehow that was Alan Hall speaking to me when you can hear their archive at falling three.co.uk at the rear.

Why do you think other radio in these aren't really taking advantage of the

Terms of trade in this way putting their archive up online amazing program, and is it mean it as a listener? I think it's a fabulous thing to do for that to be upset and I completely agree that radio producers should be more celebrated.

There is definitely not enough love applause for radio producers in the world, but I think it suits falling tree because they tend to make beautifully crafted people documentaries so the right so she's around that aren't that great you know their people are happy to be on a bed quite small and perfectly formed if you're a big indie like something else or wise Buddah where you make music programs.

You make hours of stuff.

You know big programs.

I think there's less of a reason to do it what you have to look at his most Indies are basically you know trying to survive trying to thrive in austerity Britain you know that.

And keep business is going and put money they make back into the business so a lot of Indies will have their weary sale around the documentary so for example testbed make Fry's English Delight which is sold by BBC world.

They get a cup of that all that money goes back into the company and back into programme making also I know when I was at wisebuddah.

They had a really impressive back catalogue of big-name documentaries to make for Radio 2 with really big name.

So when somebody dies or there's a big anniversary somewhere in there archive they've probably got an inner an amazing interview with a key player and that has value so as soon as you put all that online you can't sell it is your industry.

Isn't it reselling stuff that is online and is available for free is that true what Maria says you can sell it can't you? Just cos it's online and available to watch for free doesn't mean if Radio 4 on a rebroadcast it then.

I'll pay you for it 11 tips online and it's out there.

I think what what Maria saying is absolutely correct that there's the value drops because it's already been exposed I think.

What what what we've been doing with online content is repurposing it and instead of aligning it with brands and other content to give it relevance you know if if you talk about what the radio producer should be should be considering a in relation to online.

It's it's looking at the talent that out there looking at the breadth of the talent that out there that emerging on platforms like YouTube and I'm fine and I'm working with that kind of Talent and Murdoch is gone long live Murdoch little-known chief executive Rupert Murdoch is standing down from 21st Century Fox making way for fresh blood taking the form of Murdoch Jr James Murdoch remember him.

He takes over the role from Dad at the end of the month after board approval this week and now I know it's

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That's the sound of a reindeer 237990 animals or insects.

So if we don't have these things anymore what on earth did you do for the former Forest 404 a brand new drama podcast starring pearl Mackie to listen to Forest for April 1st download the free BBC Sounds app need to be cynical and I'm taking that date but Murdoch despite the trials and tribble and also tribulations that he's been through he's had an outstanding career in terms of the media has me what is achieved if you look back on his career was his biggest a really long illustrious career.

You know started many things from scratch usually successfully, I couldn't quite believe when I was looking it up these 84.

You know the man has the energy of somebody half that age and that's really really tough act to follow whatever you think of them whatever you think of his politics.

You know this is a man who has I'd ever is it too strong to say he's won election.

You know possibly not huge political influence so I think I've been very can about his success strategy and that he clearly wants to keep it in the family.

Obviously as a sound woman on Saturday disappointed Elisabeth Murdoch isn't in the mix, but you know I think what she's done has been very interesting in terms of going off and creating her own identity which shine you know so successful that dad brought it back.

You know she's created around identity being autonomous and but I do think I don't know if I'd like to have seen her in that makes a lot.

I think probably the biggest country anyways is Sky News that you don't go to any news organisation in the UK including the BBC newsroom without seeing sky news on in the background and it's what everyone looks too and will be at university never long for wrong accusation that they just so they bring something out even if it hasn't necessarily been entirely proven yet.

Just because it's breaking news, but there is a role for that in the British Media landscape and everything and it is a great service isn't it? I think you know sky has been such a

Incredible rise over the last 5 to 10 years that's what surprised me the most.

I think actually could Skype was always just this thing that you heard about other people have now it's everywhere.

Do you think he leaves the Empire there in the UK as strong as it pants was at it's peak Anna Maria made reference to the sun.

You know arguably winning elections.

You couldn't really say that it does that anymore how you know the times? Yes, they've had success with the paper which is due to Rupert personally been very adamant about that, but still there circulation is down on what it wasn't there ever be what it was he supposed, but I think it probably will and probably still is he know when you look across the the print publications.

You look across Skylar cross fox which is doing incredibly well with movies like the kingsman.

I think it's still thinking incredible Empire that he's building.

I think it will go from strength to strength something about Chris Evans talk about how he's very hands-on as a producer Tom Bowers brilliant biography of Simon Cowell whilst I was on.

Holiday brilliant.

If you're interested in that sort of gossip and it's talking about how cording to his sources Rupert Murdoch personally did the deal to retain Simon Cowell on American Idol so important was it to the Fox Empire at the time and I don't get the impression that james' is at hands on his that I don't get the impression that James Murdoch has that pumping through his blood particularly the newspapers stuff like that did a newspaper world that he's going into you know who knows in 10 years.

What are meteor look like I put on the tube in the morning.

I'm often the only person there with a paper feeling a complete Luddite so you know it will be really interesting to see what he wants to do when I think it's very difficult actually to have a vision to kind of be able to save this is where we going follow me if your 84 year old father is still in the wings and he is still in the Wings you know what the executive coach air there's there's a big title so you know it's how do you then properly make?

Sessions if your father sat behind you King Lear style is huffing and puffing and you know clearly not happy with the right you're taking can you do that ok of the heritage Murdoch titles the Sunday Times bit of a backlash this week about a story they were on this Sunday about Edward Snowden the paper said that Snowden's leaks spy files have been hacked by Russia and China have a journalist Glenn Greenwald who stole originally approach with your files said they'd only quoted anonymous sources in the UK government.

He then liking it to the Iraq war where journalists in the US took sources at their word that Saddam had nuclear weapons and there was a very awkward interview on CNN with the journalist Tom 8:30 wrote the piece for the Sunday Times in which he is said she couldn't answer any of the questions that were posted to him at all the rear.

Do you think this story actually should have run at all.

Thought he would have asked and I think it is worrying.

I think it's really worrying actually because how do you say fancy a tit? There's lots of things in there that don't stack up Edward Snowden's been really clear from the start that he didn't have any files with him when he left on cotton.

He kind of left them with the journalist destroyed them you know for security reasons so when the Anchor was asking you know.

How did they get how did the Russians and Chinese get these files? That's a really good question and it's just not it's just not good enough to kind of not getting answer to that you can publish I guess if I don't know if if in that interview was saying actually I know but I'm very sorry for state secret reasons you know I can't tell you at least you would feel like their journalistic job was done in a day was satisfied that they can substantiate the story but just doesn't sound like anyone ask those questions will be good enough.

Analysts at on those kind of Prestige Titus Endor awful, but you told of expect someone who work for a kind of blog post to be saying that you know when I was given this source and that's what they said and that's all I know you do sort of expect someone working for one of the most famous broadsheet newspapers in the world to have asked that question absolutely absolutely if it was someone in a court of law that's one thing that journalists reporting something should be able to back it up in the article.

They say that Snowden has blood on his hands and yet when he's asked ok.

You know you have any agents been moved as anyone birth hurt because of this is right what I think anyone's been hurt.

We don't know whether they've been moved or not.

It's just a big old super kind of I don't know and it just it just feels like I do know it feels like more press release than journalism will talking of journalism and how we consume it.

Let's talk about Apple news.

Which is one of the announcements that came out of California this week at WWDC

Hot on the heels of Facebook and their instant news offering Maria what is that? What show is it actually basically its accumulated new surface wear and the news is worth a human beings are going to be creating this which I'm so pleased about because I think come online is a wonderful magical thing and you can do an awful lot with algorithms.

You know you can spot search terms you can spot how many shares you know things have got so you can see your poppy things are that you can't get nuanced and I think that's why you need human beings curating things mate.

Whether it's new user whether it's a no going off to do apple music at some point you need somebody putting this into context selling it because he then use markets are really different if you're listening in Hull love your listing in Birmingham if you're listening in Tennessee you need to create and service them.

Do you think that this is there for the nail in the coffin if you like for algorithms deciding the news? You know if apple se wig.

And services that are created by human beings and that's the way forward is that the end of the approach of make the last year and is super algorithms of condensing everything into computerized Bitesize act opposite actually, I think this is this is Apple launching into the news market, but I think you know apple underlying everything or a tech company and I think it will be unfortunately.

I think it will be technology and algorithms and what about all these print chandlers who need jabs Damien I do feel sorry for those guys, but I think you know that the future is unfortunate technology and technology is moving at such a rapid pace and algorithms can be developed around a no sentiment as a lot of Twitter sentiment companies popping up that inevitably feed into curation so my own view is that this is where it's starting but not where is going to any evidence that when it starts with an algorithm the end up involving it into curation you look at the the way, they sell apps through the App Store they still have the chart based on downloads, but now they have editors pick.

Sonia like people telling you what we recommend that people seem to prefer that but then convert that into more cash than when they just say is what computer think she might like because you listen to Katy Perry yazino computers get smarter and informal learning gets more developed.

I think the service is going to be much more alternator as time goes on ok.

There's more on all of the Year apple announcements in the current edition of The Guardian tech Weekly podcast which is presented by 10 Leeman well worth a listen I say completely in partially.

Let's talk about Richard Desmond I think we should I think every every show if we're going to end with a new story should end up with a with Richard doesn't talking very very frankly to the BBC this week in the interview on the media show with Steve Hewlett another podcast worth downloading the owner of The Express and daily star and ok audibly bristled at his magazine Asian babes being called pornography.

I am stuck to his guns in backing UKIP in the general election.

It was fantastic, wasn't it?

Was good I didn't think I had Steve you later.

Give tougher grilling stuff as you might expect but I suppose he was impressed with I think if you've got them on I mean you was a book plug.

It was a tough old book club, but it was a book plug, but there was interesting stuff in there there were some Lions I think there was one ethical is not a concept I recognise I thought was an interesting line.

It's very rare that you get in talking about his career in that way, so it was it was an interesting insight and defending the coverage of the Daily Express towards the mccanns despite having lost the court case on that basis.

Yes, there was a bit of a well.

There's 1000 people working there and other additives decides that and that they thanked him apparently the people involved in our thought one of the other interesting things that came through was that term you know really slightly xenophobic nature.

So he didn't like Hello magazine.

Cos it was run by

Spanish guy and they will all the contacts and they've peed we can do better.

There was a lot to be said for local context so I get that but then he doesn't like the Canadian Lottery all the lottery because it's run by a chameleon excetera excetera and suddenly all those some white men banned from jobs headlines in the Daily Express and £1000000 donations to UKIP starts making a bit more sense if I put that question of is the Daily Express in the back of the no campaign when we have our EU referendum to the deputy editor of The Express Michael Booker and he said to me well actually I personally want to vote yes, but our readers have made it very very clear to us and have over series of years of the Dead Express as a paper for people who don't like Europe and I said in that interview.

I'm very glad we followed our readers.

It is probably legitimately true isn't that he is actually calling is on that if you want Express Reading that's probably the way you can absolutely I don't think there's a choice so you think it's right that the expression.

They are with their readers doesn't necessarily make it right for the rest of the country right before we go.

There is just time for the immediate quiz at this week.

It is entitled Big Shoes to fill there are several people who have recently taken on new jobs in the media, but can you guess the person from their acceptance speech at Maria's looking cynically? It is this is a much-loved feature of the Showroom is part of the format the you don't know what the hell is going on with you know when you know the answer the winner watches the first hour of the TFI Friday special and the loser has to watch the second half is quote number one music is my job and my passion.

I can't wait for judges houses in Oldham Damien yes, this is the X Factor story they were Simon Cowell's picture Rita Ora to BS32 are the 1 other two.

There's I'm going to the areas and to be the next two members on the panel of experts reckon to that someone who?

X Factor I'm going away they supposed to ring me back.

When is not in it for me cos I'm always Game of Thrones kind of girl you know it's bringing for the Radio 1 Breakfast Show that doing it's great profile for them.

I think the BBC must be gutted to have lost Rita Ora from the voice, but some are you know I think the big lost their wisdom O'Leary actually I think he's the one person will be most missed.

Ok here is quotes number to I can't think of a more exciting place in British journalism right now on with your name of the answer who said that which place has the bars you might say Damien Damien it will be Janine Gibson very good former Us Guardian editor and she's taking over as editor-in-chief BuzzFeed UK has yes and Louis is perfectly happy about it.

He's going to be doing some other stuff.

He said yeah, what do you think Gillian Gibson it BuzzFeed as that moving them on the league basically BuzzFeed fan?

Will be interesting as I do associate BuzzFeed with funny cat things and I don't know you know interesting nuggets definitely but not news logos and her mission.

I think is to take newest no, I am not I don't know if I'm feeling that so BMCC how to get rid of the opposite ratio to the Guardian isn't it in the Guardian also provides entertainment content and news, but it bugs BuzzFeed whatever you say about the new coverage.

It is kind of funny.

Cat hot guy genocide funny cats the basement to genocide stories.

I don't know if there's two questions left summary of this is all play for you could still get a drawer out of this here is quite number 3.

This is the best thing for 10 alpes in years.

Is it now says resigning Bob Geldof correct.

Yes lost making indeed has bought factual producers reef to help turn around its Fortunes and here finally quote number for the drawer is all to play for it's like to a statue.

Because it's who said this as a reason for not getting the job here's the quote I was told by the Producers that they preferred my version ferry to the Isle of Sophie I've started to think I was told by the producers of their preferred my version but the channel decided they couldn't have a woman in charge at Maria what is the story has left his to set up the women's equality party which is interesting in its own right, but she's come out and said that basically 25 years ago.

She had a pilot for Have I Got News For You that was her that was Angus Deayton and it went to him fair enough.

You know we all you know after lose out on jobs, but she said she was told by the Producers the channel said you can't it can't be you because you're a woman which you know even that was 25 years ago is still a facepalm moments that that kind of stuff happened is it could devote a whole episode 2 this out there? I've been told before that I can't present shows because I'm not a wood.

Yeah, cos they say there's too many women in the lineup at the moment.

We need a woman for this and I've got to accept that are festival who had been told by an American radio consultant on her radio station.

I'm afraid we're gonna have to let you go we've already got a female presenter.

You know they said the listeners will get confused so it maybe yes that you know when we weave when we reach that point when we can't get job because there are too many men on the network and there's only one then you can go moana.

Thank you very much.

Thank you very much for joining us this week that was so it was a draw wasn't in the enter neither of you.

Have one congratulations you can find all of our previous installments and get new ones downloaded automatically straight to your phone.

Just head to the media podcast.

Can't today's show is dedicated to Sean Wells who failed to supply and fit new line, but we love him for the same and he Nicks Age 2.

Still has a man crush on that well, don't we all there was any man who got me into Media podcasting it was him if you would like to support the podcast and get a whole load of Praise from me go to the media podcast.com / dedicate.

I've been only man.

You can follow me on Twitter and Facebook Ollie with a y m a double n.

The producer is Matt Hill and the media podcast is a PPM production until next time bye bye.

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