Read this: #28 - BBC3 move postponed, Adblock Plus - The Media Podcast with Olly Mann

Welcome to the media podcast I'm only man on today's show BBC3 won't move online until next year.

It's controller says but with the trust not reporting back until the autumn are they jumping the gun a course in Germany rules against newspapers in a case on ad blocking software yes, it's part 76 of our discussion on paying for news online plus bad weeks for Katie Hopkins and Piers Morgan good times at Sky and Netflix and will round out the best coverage from the UK election campaign this is the media podcast sponsored by audioboom and with me today at the hospital club is the head honcho of the Guardian Edinburgh International television festival it's Lisa Campbell hi Lisa big.

Thank you.

Especially for taking time out of your week this week, because you've got your big launch on Tuesday we have indeed.

Yes as it's our 40th Anniversary where are pulling out all the stops to do a Scottish themed press breakfast show.

We have got not one but three MasterChef finalists cooking breakfast for the Press so the winner will be announced on Friday will be working with Adam handling.

Who has the Caxton Grill St ermins hotel in London and he's a former finalist and will also be joined by pincombes, so I think we've got whisky smoked salmon on the menu which is delightful also during this we broadcast consultant and all-round smoothie.

It says here Paul Robinson hello Paul I was going to say when I was on the Edinburgh festival committee, which I did for about 15 years Chris and smoothies.

All we got this is amazing, but you are no stranger to the lights because you were at miptv in Cannes and therefore listeners who aren't part of this Media bubble where you go round expensive conferences.

This is another one of those things where people fly all the way to the south of France to talk about telly at was it like this year will really is a marketing in there is a conference and the conference is very good, but actually it's where people buy and sell TV programme something you may think it's very sophisticated, but it's not people actually going.

Meeting bars and hotels and restaurants go to Stand screen programs, and that's how TV programmes of boot round the world that's that's how it's done it have to be done the south of France nice clothes at 25° and bit of good French wine to go down here difficult to complain about that but one advantage you got least of your event this year as it's finally not going to be at the weekend now people get their bank holiday weekend back for the first time in 40 years, so it's running from Wednesday to Friday this year.

That's the 26th to 28th of August and yeah.

We got a much more international feel this year so amazing channel buses from FX Discovery showtime HBO a big screening with Amazon are they coming over to do hand of God which does Ron Perlman and wouldn't be quite nice with Sky Arts their finalists from the portrait artist of the year are going to be there doing a painting potential Yvonne McTaggart speaker that's brilliant.

I'll say something taken out always was the Friday night arriving Edinburgh Friday night with taggalicious.

Where is it going to be in the schedule now?

It's the Wednesday night, so it's the first night so we have that we have openings passion which is Big Brother which really excited about because I think people wanted to do that for years, but it's been there impossible expensive and it's actually been fascinating trying to convince TV executives to go on the other side and to go in that house so having those conversations about we won't humiliate you honestly you know you can trust us.

They clearly now yeah.

Yeah, let's talk about telly now but moving onto the BBC weapons to move BBC Three online have been postponed until 2016 according to broadcast magazine the delay is down to the BBC trust who won't be ruling on the proposals until September and Wii controller Damian Kavanagh says won't leave enough time to plan and promote the move before the end of the year that we had expected and initial decision in June at least this is kind of dragging on forever now in the public's mind BBC3 is dead man walking at their top show.

The Seth MacFarlane ones, let's be honest the imports.

I'll move into ITV at this is getting a bit embarrassing than it really is I think it was completely bizarre that they would sell off Family Guy the book and a crown jewels of the tunnel in many ways before they even have permission from the trust, so I find that very odd that they've even been allowed to do that before any discussions around alternatives whether it's Jimmy mulville and John so days idea of them running it or you do any conversations with UKTV who could have partnered and run the channel and wouldn't that have been that's a better solution.

I mean it's just really bizarre.

I think the way this whole thing has been handled in to just be going backwards and forwards like this.

Just does not do them any favors and pulled you think actually when it comes down to it.

The trust are going to actually agreed like this proposal.

What do you think there is a chance it might end up reversing like they did with 6 Music in an end up as well.

You never know the BBC Trust what I find strange and I do a cruise Lisa is that this wasn't done for Strategic reasons because we believe it's the right thing to do you know because young viewers are going online lineage.

Less relevant to that audience with applicable BBC3 Are Young service on to online it was done to save money now the BBC has to argue and he's arguing that is actually typed for cash and is trying to demonstrate.

It's very efficient by their making savings and closing BBC3 to a large extent of political move to say hey Wiseau stresow strapped for cash closing a channel, but the reality is not going to save that much I miss Banks and forwards and and procrastination.

I think really does make the BBC.

Very very silly and then obviously not anticipated.

I don't think any of us had at the proposal that you are referring to that Lisa from hat-trick and Avalon how do you think the BBC of actually dealt with that was quite provocative move and yet it still there isn't it in the shed is it still there on the sidelines as a possibility people so why not do some of the things they suggesting yeah? I know I think there are a whole host of difficulties around it from rights issues and branding and everything else but you know probably not insurmountable, but it doesn't feel as though the BBC's particularly engaged with.

And have those conversations.

I think that's just what the most disappointing just the thought of finality of the announcements and now things aren't being commissioned so there's going to be a big hole that then you'd have the lack of clarity about the kind of programs people should be pitching and what that means going forward and we had Stacey Dooley a TED talks event recently and she was absolutely amazing and she's made 40 films over the years that she's been working for BBC Three know she was discovered through blood sweat and t-shirts as a contributor and has got a natural persona and really really down-to-earth approach and she's not the kind of white man in chinos going into the woods and she knows she's very very much on that level of of the younger audience and it's very hard to think of where else you would either grow that Talent or bring those fantastically important issues to a younger audience in such an engaging way and I think that is such a lost and even those entertainment shows actually you know if you talk back or open.

I can you got your new entertainment comedy panel show hosted by Rizzle Kicks you know you're not going to take it anymore to BBC3 cos you're gonna think what they have the budget than what they doing.

Where do you go with that kind of idea you have to take it to their competitors.

I get a C4 unlikely to remember the BBC is a puppy service broadcaster and supporting new Talent developing new Talent give me the platform is a key part of what the BBC's for that's what we pay the licensee my way happy to pay the licensee now.

They're coming up when you touch otter in York this is a real fighting a real mess and exactly is Lisa said if these people not given a chance you know this is really fundamentally against public purposes.

This is what the BBC should be doing and their their funding the whole thing is I think BlackMart for the BBC it's not that are inconsistent with the BBC to be rather sort of meal emails at making a decision people won't take responsibility no one will actually say I'm going to own this problem make a decision.

It's all a bit sort of well.

You know it's somebody else's issue, and it feels a bit like that that no one is really properly driving this online go online and make it work you know any support.

But make sure you're not causing all this uncertainty in the market both supplies, but also for viewers OK well.

Let's talk about the online marketplace next in a story about newspaper website in particular caught in Germany has real better tech company can continue to block adverts online including all new site at the software called AdBlock Plus and it prevents browsers from displaying banner in article and pop-up adverts the case was brought by to German news organisations design and handelsblatt and there are three other cases in the pipeline at Poole this is bad news for ad funded journalism is good news obviously for the people who are sick and tired of adverts coming up what they're trying to read the news, but clearly a lot of these websites may rely on ads to fund as I say journalism content stuff that won't be there without the advertising revenue in a bigger context and that is if you look at the online video world.

There's three basic ways in which you can pay for content at the Y the bay.

My subscription are you pay transaction League at what you pay by advertising and you got three examples there in iTunes on Netflix and YouTube this is the same this is someone who's a destructive the market who's got a piece of technology who's managed to stop ads appearing on website and I think it's perfectly too much if people want to choose whether their content is AD funded or not.

They said the absolute right to make that decision to think the court upheld the decision correctly.

This is the world when you've got it use the fact that there are people coming into this world using technology disrupting changing things.

That's where we are and this is only the tip of the iceberg different people recording a TV show on their PVR and fast forwarding through the ads that way.

You've always been able to do it, but where does the money come from and Paul suggested to other revenue models there Lisa do you think magazines and newspaper locations are going to go down a subscription route instead of advertising.

I don't think that the consumer.

Is it really because how many things are you go?

To have to subscribe to to get access to news and I can see that you know ads popping up all the time or can be annoying perhaps.

He just need them or inventive creative interesting ways around that may be suitable advertorial something but time I just think you don't really I personally wouldn't want to have to subscribe to a whole string of different newspapers.

I would rather put up with the ads are running interestingly AdBlock Plus in my comments about the case actually said what they want to do.

It is obviously a bit it's been really isn't it? But what they want to do his work with these new sites to create advertising.

That's more compelling for people so they won't want to avoid it is such a thing possible even on YouTube when people do very compelling 7-second bad you still Prescot don't you after that 7 seconds is up if there's a way to avoid some will find a way I mean these guys are just been so they seem opportunity and I grabbed it now.

You know you could argue that what they're doing is inappropriate and Lisa's right you did have appetising as a means of Supporting news remember advertising the smallest of any of the advertising funding buckets now, but Hotel

Newspaper advertising is not the big fun.

Isn't anymore at the end of the day.

I think she must have a choice and if they choose not have advertising with their news.

They should have that right.

Let's talk about some professional trolls now Katie Hopkins London and also Piers Morgan are they both been in the news Morgan back in the papers after confirming he's been interviewed for a second time about phone hacking at the mirror during his time as editor that you did say he went voluntarily to the police.

It was arranged interview and Katie Hopkins of course causing outrage for an incendiary article in the Sun about the death of asylum seekers in the Mediterranean in which he liking them to Cockroaches at least let's start with Katie Hopkins as it seems every new channel in the world does these days at there's a petition of over 200000 people now to have her removed from the Sun Kaplan TV show on TLC is in doubt people say at put on the other hand it's a good day in the office for her.

Isn't it? I mean actually we're talking about her.

She needs the oxygen of publicity that's that's her business.

Absolutely out you know better to be a season in the news then that the you know not screw talks about at all.

It's quite interesting.

Isn't it? Because you think you're her comments around immigration that just love them and she's it's toxic.

It's it's hideous and there's no way that you can sort of defend it really at the same time people like her or go to import Lido de play that role in stimulating debate.

I mean you know you could say Nigel Farage until he started talking about immigrants.

It was something that Labour and Conservatives you didn't really dare discuss for fear of being a pain racist or something a minute with links to them the Trevor Phillips.

The other week the truth about right.

You know when was the son of PC attitude has actually called a whole load more problems.

So yes, she serves a roll on that level and you know kind of getting the right out the cupboard really and then sometimes.

It's it is a good thing.

You don't have the National Front on Question Time and they weren't I just heard Katie Hopkins

Rodents because I think you'll find that there's a petition about the remit of course he raises the issue.

He raises the issue, but the problem is that her defence isn't it for than using this terminology comparing people to Cockroaches which people rightly pointed out onto it? It is what the Nazis did he does like on the point where you think even if you were Katie Hopkins you say actually on this occasion.

My language went too far but because we can all understand.

She can't do that because she knows she does that than everything she says is under scrutiny again, but do you think he secretly she think she went too far for the sun think they went too far this time in publishing this particular column.

I don't think she went too far at all.

I think she thinks that you know she has strongly held beliefs.

Everyone else is all a bit bland particularly politicians.

She she sounded genuinely convinced thing when she discusses this point that you know she isn't just found the flames and and keep herself in the spotlight.

She does believe it and she believes a lot of people in the country.

Believe it as well, but where did you see all this?

Ground shows at some point.

He's gonna go even further isn't shame.

It's all going to end well as Lisa says there is a value in ensuring that the argument is ahead in so doing as long as people are rational people believe that what she says he's completely in Despicable and horrible then that's fine, but clearly if she continues to benefit personally from further a claim as result of the she's going to get more more extreme of course.

She is she has to continue saying things that are going to get unnoticed in order to maintain the own our own oxygen of publicity.

I think there comes a point in this for me Percy's pretty much at the point where it's Hrithik and and really is quite offensive and quite horrible to read night.

I thought this was you know personally really about the most like a takeaway tonight and if you can if you register of the Sun would you feel the same as they did well and she probably feels as a legitimate voice in the paper your mum's got a son didn't make some coming to me they understand why she can't retract it and I thinking at Lisa's right she she generally believe what she says this is not something as she's creating she generally believe this.

I think but

Sun I'm surprised the sun didn't in a make some comments just in the perhaps.

You know she gone too far or or sums of apology or something but the fact this is nothing did did surprise me when I was there.

I then had them.

It was good to boast about and I know me I felt as editor you're not there to agree with every single columnist in in the magazine and what a boring magazine.

It would be if that was the case so it you know that it is a difficult one.

I suppose there is a point at which you say actually are you inciting racial hatred? Are you cross to let legally or whatever then as an editor you clearly have two way.

They were you were much more amazing what you did? Was you actually again provoke debate but it was always backed up by rational argument didn't have this sort of emotive language in it.

You know that thing that's the difference but that but then broadcast isn't a tabloid is it was under style point isn't I mean you know Lisa could have used you know inappropriate language in describing people are acting stupid way but you didn't you kept it to a moderate level but you still made the point it was still hard hitting and controversial.

But without the offence the point at which it's too far the apaches there already because if the rumours are true that you know they're struggling to sign up get to I'm told it's not a chat so but yeah whatever they're there if the shower.

Is it 4:30 something in production or about to be struggling to get celebrities to associate themselves with her in anyway, so that's the danger for it for her that she just becomes too toxic for anybody in at the side of the negative effect rubs off on whoever she has sociate with ok.

We'll talk about hard-hitting and controversial.

Let's touch briefly on Piers Morgan as well.

He's denied any involvement in phone hacking as we know and the met and the Crown Prosecution Service have had a few setbacks in the past few weeks with regards to the sun journalists accused of paying public officials all for found not guilty leading to other cases being dropped.

Do you think Paul very is the appetite to pursue Morgan for phone hacking when again in the public's mind this isn't old story now.

Well.

He took part in these meetings formatter.

Understand clearly in the light of what happened recently with the CPS I suspect there's give me a great deal more caution about suing him and seeing others I think giving his profile to he's a smart guy in her today, but it's ok.

I think we facing the tail end of this book introduces carrying on there is a freedom of information request.

I think it was in the Press Gazette about how much the police has spent on these enquiries and it was off with 30 million quid.

I can't remember the exact 33 1/2 million Americans are something like visit 99 journalist suspected of wrongdoing as well.

So I think that you do get a real sense of the scale of this that you know 64 journalist have been arrested.

I mean you know forum Piers Morgan it's like Groundhog Day isn't it has been back in November 2012 Lord Leveson describe Piers Morgan's Testament the as utterly unpersuasive and clearly proves that he was aware.

It was taking place in the Press as a whole how many added is sufficiently un embarrassed by what was criminal behaviour that he was prepared to joke about it.

Well.

I might move On Good Morning Britain or not.

The crashing into the ads will take a break and we back after this.

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Just use the offer code Media pod at the Checkout and if you like what you've heard you can find more of my voice over work at Lea marks.co.uk ok, let's tackle some of the other news stories doing the rounds this week and there's an election on in case you haven't noticed that major Payne

Tickle parties have now finally announced their manifesto, so we have some idea of their future media policy at least you've had a look at the top lines.

Give us an idea worrying for the BBC not much phone anyone else but that's freezing the licence fee which will you anyway but it was bro's until charter renewal anyway if the Tories come back in again.

So all we know is going to carry on doing the same thing and labour.

It's all about media plurality and again so the same old argument for them really.

They want to stop the big beast the kind of Murdoch's of taking over and not having one very dominant player within the media quite vague that have because we'd be not really getting any sense of how Media ownership should be judged house of Google and Facebook fit into things now if there should be a cat and how how large I think you're a few years ago testogel talked about this net worth Incas around a 20% captain but you know what they were saying well.

We'd only need to do the work on this then then and take advice and and blah blah which you know in some ways is no bad thing because

Unlike the Tories the last licence fee settlement waste let's 10 / it by 25% No discussion, just done all kind of behind closed doors and not very healthy for anybody.

I think so at least then some discussion around it the Lib Dems introducing public interest defence for journalists breaking the law about because it's the one that's least likely to actually happened definitely the labour policy.

I mean that sounds good.

Doesn't it? So busy playing into what Ed Miliband round as a trump card when he was going auntie Murdoch anti phone hacking but he said what does it actually mean when you can't even to find the media potential by definition is the possibility of achieving more in the fast-paced world of digital advertising Oracle data cloud has built its Legacy on finding the signal through the noise.

On unlocking potential we bring together data and technology to help you better understand your audience where to best engage them and how to measure a tool to realise true potential Oracle data cloud web better outcomes begin visit Oracle data cloud., to learn more got plans for the long weekend.

You could get your friends round for drinks maybe even the first barbecue.

Hope it's not too chilly.

Why not don't forget the brancott estate Marlborough Sauvignon Blanc was too chilly for growing but the pioneering winemakers of brancott estate didn't listen.

They were the first to plan in Melbourne New Zealand for decades and a bunch of Awards later.

It is crisp and fresh as ever look out for our new colourful limited edition bottles in stores now.

Enjoy responsibly drinkaware.co.uk it doesn't really matter does it how many people own how many papers when you've got something for getting use online anyway?

Service and so therefore doesn't even refer to or affect Google them people like that.

I don't know it's them.

I guess you can't really have any of you on it when there are no details and when they have the shadow minister doing interviews and he won't really even at least it on the planet.

Just typical isn't this time of year but what you can have with your the suppose if you're at the BBC is that it's going to be bad news if the Tories get back in because they're going to freeze and arguably shrink the money that you have and everyone else is saying that they won't I mean the pull that is a concern for the BBC isn't it? Well the BBC can be more efficient than it.

Is you know I've worked there and the BBC doesn't need more money.

I mean needs to be better when it dives so I think the BBC been kept to RPI is completely sensible.

Why do they have RPI + why should they have more money than other Industries and another people doing other things I just don't see that also for the BBC but the BBC still not properly gripped up doing things differently what is done is slice of limbs like BBC3 but it's

Not properly grip things up you can talk to anyone who works for the BBC about for example the way they organise yes to have a conversation in the pub that how they organise their sm64 BBC News and you can pay what they do at Sky Now has Sky the hours.

They work are actually based on physical hours behind the desk at the BBC is a shift that you might find you doing one bullet in your right side shift and rest I'm sitting around doing nothing.

That's the BBC for you so the BBC can be more efficient.

I think the planeteers.

Who's is very interesting because the trouble now is that the organisations that we might be concerned about our not UK organisations.

It's not it's not about what ITV or BBC or even Murdoch's doing with BSkyB you know you've got this huge global players now like it like Amazon Netflix apple innit.

There's no way are UK government is going to regulate those guys.

He's just not going to happen.

Ok.

Thank you know your Virgin Media Virgin Media's new part of Liberty Global which is actually Denver Colorado

The company so you know there's no detail because it's impossible to tie down it cannot be done anymore.

He never the Genie is out of the box the big players are now transmedia transglobal players and that's the future and and you can't change that that's not going to UK government contracts that all the words to say that the BBC doesn't need more money but top slicing as we know is actually taking money away.

That's the fear is Netley so that they talk about putting money into broadband roll out again and all the rest of it and people the BBC say we can't have less money exactly and I think that is the concern around the Tories proposal is not only freezing the licence fee but continuing the top slicing and we don't know to what extent so broadband rollout is one thing but likewise labour haven't really outline their views on top slicing either so we don't know whether they agree with it or not and and to what extent that they would allow that you would assume that to a given the fact that they won't freeze the licence fee that they would be happy be more sympathetic.

Calls from within the BBC that it shouldn't be done who wrote top slicing is soon as you start doing that you can fuse on a course once you slice one slice of we know how deep do you go? I would argue that although.

There's no other solution the licence fee is probably the least worst way of finding the BBC and the critical things the BBC is to connect with citizens to do things that distinctive to give platforms to new Talent and so on and if they do that, then we willing to pay for the licence fee and that money should all go to the BBC what BBC must do in return though is as well as offering high-quality programs be efficient at what it does and the BBC can be more efficient than it is an associate the SNP doing a proper coalition then we'll be going to Glasgow to get more work, but they won't more money in Pacific a don't know yet might go to living in the summer.

Also one thing that the politicians won't be drawn on his Weather Channel 4 is up for privatisation at they're saying that's all out for now, but they won't discuss whether or not it's an attractive proposition to do it in the future Lisa do you think that should be something was on the table for the next?

I think everything is worth and disgusting is it a good or bad thing? I I I would argue know that we shouldn't privatised tunnel for tell me the Tories I said they have no plans as he say but I'm who knows Ricky the election night coverage.

They got Jeremy Paxman and David Mitchell and a whole bunch of comedians coming in it's a kind of alternative broadcast kind of a comedy.

Show is that the kind of content do you think that I be doing call if they didn't have a public element to their structure.

Do you think they still maintain that spirit? They were privately owned in five Years Time well.

I've brought diversity and hasbro real choice in the UK and it's done some amazing things and it's it's history.

It has got an old sold soda structure in the sense that it's actually a public service broadcaster funded by advertising and there any have a conflict because whenever you have an advertisers funding you it has an impact on what you do.

If only in terms of generating ratings.

If not they actually throw content tool somehow channel fours managed to avoid that although.

Digital channels you have to argue if they are just acquired content know what is difference between the market doing that and a public service broadcaster doing that but the core channel does still doing sting interview not pricey.

I think I think we're sending the wrong direction.

I'd rather keep its hurry service broadcaster and actually encouraged to do more innovation at more Instinct things more minority things and be less are driven by ratings.

It is the channel for its managing that tension between the commercial and the public service then and are arguably they manage that very well creatively and but they are under increasing pressure in terms of in terms of advertising in the commercial side of things so yes the kind of the ratings Drive is quite intense so re-examining there remix particularly around diversity with a van up their diversity tartan out.

So they really have to make sure that they deliver on on that I mean when I saw the the eternity of elections that are 5 pesos of my heart sank in it so that when I saw Jeremy Paxman because it felt as though Channel 4.

I have got such an important role to play in cooking in younger audiences and encouraging them to vote and to engage in politics and so then what you go to the BBC and get someone from the BBC political establishment to front your coverage, but looking at the lineup now the fact that they have got some interesting lineup of comedians and and different diverse lineup.

I'm actually quite looking forward to it now, and I think they could have quite a nice out of tunnel for distinctive quality.

It seems to me as well to be quite an honest admission which bit.ly been ITV on Christmas day, really isn't it? Everyone's going to be watching the BBC really as the results come in but you know he's a show that you might dip in and out of for 10 minutes of something funny with David Mitchell or an interview with Jeremy Paxman that's trending and and that's what your use it for you.

Don't miss it for the flowers on watch Channel 4 Disney Channel 4 something different species of place the destination absolutely don't copy the BBC do something alternative and they're doing that so well done it be below next episode of the media podcast by the way comes out the day after the general election so will bring you our coverage of the coverage then but

Know who you're going to be watching.

Are you going to be up all night going to privatise Channel 4 imagine? It's unlikely he'll be doing quite it will be doing a session on how TV covered the election at Edinburgh so I'll have to watch everything now listen to everything is no excuse given up to get a plug-in is extremely just said you can listen to show that comes out the day after sun come to Scotland 2 months later and find out with me plans for a commercialised production wing called BBC studios at may meeting that Strictly Come Dancing another big hits like that could be made by Indies broadcast magazine reports that several major independent producers have met with the BBC and I said the corporation should put it's biggest shows out to tender as a condition of the move at least this is feisty behaviour from the Independent

Two but you'd sort of expect it was always part of the discussion wasn't about the BBC's gonna open themselves up to all kinds of commissioning then we should be able to pitch for their biggest shows do they have a point because it is all about ensuring a level playing field and slow to open your doors for business with 450 million in the bank and yolk some of the best shows out there does seem to everybody else does bit of an unfair advantage and I think the Indie sector would argue we can produce the same shows at the same quality probably for a better tariff.

We know we can be more efficient.

We should be allowed to have the opportunity here on the other hand there BBC properties that have been funded by the licence fee originated and groan and being supported.

Thanks the licence fee payers money so should they now be released to the market to line the pockets of the already rich super Indies

You can pick that out anyone who wants to pitch for that can do that as well.

It's good enough backfiring on the indeed to ask if it means you ever think they're looking for the BBC Studios boss about something of a poison chalice perhaps this this role, because not only do you have to work out the tissues a complex issue about who gets what at the end of the day, but you also have to start by making lots of people redundant and what about the flip side of this pool the BBC competing with Indies to make shows for other channels.

Is that a good idea moving forward to the public well, I think you're going to think about what you want and what you want is a BBC this producing high-quality distinctive programming at a very good price and that there has to be the gold the Independent sector is being extremely good at actually bringing ideas to the BBC and doing sufficiently so my view on the the shows of the County BBC gems if the Independent sector can make those and can make them at the same stands at lower price as a licence fee per you benefit from that if a company makes a profit by doing so it doesn't actually matter because as a licensee.

Are you still getting better value for money in some of the BBC competing in the market that seems to me to be distorted what the BBC is for you know the BBC's not meant to be a commercial organisation know the heart of the BBC you could argue has been its production in a that's what keeps a distinctive it needs to be a broadcaster doing different things to the market and continue innovating and being distinctive if it starts competing in the market.

You start save a what makes it different from ITV Productions or any other third party in India big or small super India otherwise so I think they got think very carefully about that because the BBC needs to make sure that it remains as a public service broadcaster with distinct programming that is not replicated by the market and that the licence fee payer might benefit.

Yes anything less.

Yes, that's what about the people had to work on this shows because if if money is being built into their budgets now to give profit to the executives who run the Independent companies then presumably all the crew all the production team they getting paid less.

Will you making an assumption that the difference in price is down to profit it maybe they doing.

Smarter better, how does necessary mean that to their spending less on screen? You know you look at production companies around the world and they are often better than the public service broadcasters take the example of zdf and I'll be in Germany better finding the BBC they pay more in Germany per household, the Public Service Broadcasting we do in the UK and the waste is huge ok to stories of business is on the app finally this week's Sky announce their best growth for 11 years.

They no have almost 21 million customers and Netflix have announced they've passed the 60 million subscriber Mark elder that is Worldwide of course not just in the UK at all those massive numbers for Netflix at the Now talking about investing in Europe to widen their base here.

Do you see the trend reversing at any point was a business which didn't really exist.

Original Productions House of Cards been the most famous now going to afford season, but they also invested in olive acquisitions in your face if you look at the amount spent on television Netflix now spend more than Prowse even more than skyhooks to the right more than the BBC on content and they're subscriber base is tracking the amount their spending on content so there currently in a mode where their spending and a booty at the distribution and then at some point that start going for profits, but it's really interesting how content is driving that business and it's brilliant and of course what's great about the price point.

I mean is that people say unit 7-8 9 quid off you know dollars whatever it is.

That's an easy decision.

You know compared to pay 5060 pounds for Sky in oak under a tenner this sort of an easy decision.

Yeah, I'll have it and by the way.

I'm not committed to a 12-month contract so I don't like it.

I can churn out.

That's why Netflix has been so successful.

So why are Sky putting on the numbers then Lisa if you say Paul's analysis there began slowing down for years people are turning to Netflix and yet.

They come out this in.

Edible figures what's going on Chinese is has been an issue and they haven't been putting on the subscriber numbers in the past and I've exceeded analysts than expectations this time that you know that the fact that it is the lowest term for 11 years that the content is there they they have invested huge amount you know the football clearly is upset people at the time for the mentally spending but you know it is proving to be a winner the amount of original content in terms of them things like fortitude now on Sky Atlantic alongside Game of Thrones I think there's just such a great commitment from Sky that is really sort of paying off, but there's also the issue of Sky having their over-the-top competitor.

Isn't there now TV which of the moment you've got the people paying 50 quid a month you know my dad and have been paying for the last 20 years for their Sky subscription then you got people like me paying £8 a month to get NOW TV through my Roku box but at some point I guess you know my parents' generation because it died and everyone's going to be paying the 8 quid so ultimately R&B

Revenue sustainable well the the grossest come out.

There's two things for your first thing it's the first time of actually aggregated sky Deutschland sky Italia and BSkyB so that's why you seen these larger numbers remember that the distribution in Germany if these much below that in the UK so this fundamentally bigger growth happening in Germany which is driving the overall Sky Group BSkyB is a dth operator is growing very very slowly the growth in the UK is come on missed entirely from NOW TV at 90% of gross come from NOW TV and to answer your question about the app request the average revenue per user what's really clever the way that marketed.

This is people who actually have taken NOW TV over 90% of them would never consider buying sky but they bought nowtv as many of those sky behind it yet, but so what's happening is Sky managed to hang on to their high are poo customers on dth and as a whole new raft of younger customers on Now TV who have not been Sky customers have not turned down from Sky was Lisa said that.

Sunrise in Prudhoe Bay see as a whole new market segment and that's where the closest come from so these are much lower revenue customers, but they are brand new customers largely via the OTT platform Paul Robinson iftm a specialist they're far too many acronyms with the media quiz this week.

It is entitled switch off but don't otherwise you're Mr result at several services have an ounce of their switching off in the near future Lisa Paul buzzing when you know the answer with your name.

I'm going to read you a piece from their announcement you tell me who is switching off the winner gets a full-page splash in the Metro the loser gets backed by the Daily Express his company number one hour fanbase wants streaming downloads specific programming interviews has inside your name.

Please pull up or pull I'm not Lisa that's true in this case.

So this is Team Rock who have decided after two years to come off for a digital one DAB and will cease to be broadcast cease broadcasting in the UK and will now offer a new service which is effectively subscription you can get interviews and so on via a website where you pay a certain amount per month to subscribe and what's really going on because they're making me so like this is all for the benefit of the listeners, but Team Rock headed up by John Myers big radio guy obviously wanted it really to be a successful radio station as well.

Well the stretchy hasn't worked with the strategy was to use the radio station to drive people to the website and you haven't really achieve that they've quoted a million users, but they're not a million pay uses the pain uses is substantially below that so there is asking they're stressing nothing wrong with that.

You know where they're going is a good place near to actually offer on demand.

We've been talking about it the TV no digital and last a few minutes so stressing radio.

Why not the question is where they can actually put it off so.

Good luck, it said it's a tough for changing strategy for them, but they're going to work hard to make our money out of this but team it's only radio as done with same exactly right number to it.

Sends a clear signal to Europe and the rest of the world that digital radio is the platform of The Future who made that announcement.

What are they switching off buzzing when you know the answer with your name Lisa switching off FM growth in 2017? Is it ever going to happen here? Do you think what is increasingly relevant when it does happen here, but we've been talking about switching it off here for what videos have missed that I was completely wrong side though, it's €358.

About £200 double but it is in the UK only by the three bears and alright ok, so they've they put it very hard butter in a small country ok well.

You've got one point each.

So this is the decider it's question number three less than half of under 25s voted at the last election to split the prize.

This is incredible you both got this right.

Yes less than half of under 25s voted at the last election so we've engaged the most powerful weapon that we have at our disposal to try and boost that number that was you for a melting.

They will not broadcast during the day of the General Election that you were saying any other Channel 4 has a responsibility to try and drive younger people out to vote so is this a good idea was it as fast as part of what I was saying it's great and they're going to cross promote it on other channels, aren't there and as love you.

It's got a fun Channel 4 approach to two that's I think and having is it Darren City

Manning station playing go away don't vote there's not there's nothing here to see you today.

I like that would generate enough pressed using Paul to make it worthwhile, then not showing How I Met Your Mother from the day.

Well.

I mean I think that the fact that not watching you for is not going to his be my go to vote for the fat people talking about it as we are now.

Just raises the issue of course you know whatever the outcome relation to supporting you vote whatever age you are and we should encourage people vs.

Democracy.

So I think you know go to channel 4.

I like it smart clever bit different yet picked it for me getting them into politics.

Yeah, but we know what you just said completely sure enough within the country that has made their week at that's it for today.

My thanks to Lisa Campbell and Paul Robinson thank you.

You can find all our previous installments and get the new episodes downloaded automatically straight to your phone just

Had to be Media podcast dot.com today's show is dedicated to Phil Mansell who is the executive producer for RuneScape the online video game and to Andrew Garvin who he says is definitely not renowned enough to have a podcast dedicated to him as co dedicated as you can probably cope with that if you're a voice-over artist like Leah marks earlier, and he wanted out your trade by recording our advert tweet us at the media podcast and we'll send you a script.

I've been all your manly producer Matt Hill until next time bye bye.

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