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Read this: #25 - Clarkson’s third strike, British Press Awards - The Media Podcast with Olly Mann

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#25 - Clarkson’s third strike, British…



Welcome to the media podcast I'm Ollie man on today's show Clarkson Clarkson Clarkson also on the show is the chair of the BBC Trust pulling the plug on the BBC Trust at the British press Awards we discuss the winners and losers Snapchat how did genital sharing app get to be worth 15 billion dollars, this is the media podcast with me today at the hospital club is the media writer Maggie Brown welcome back to the show Maggie thank you.

Very understanding reviewing books recently.

Yes, I have I've been busy reading the new BBC History pink curlers and straighteners which I would recommend to anybody interested in the last time that they got rid of it director general but I'm also want to just give a little plug to a book that you won't have hurdle, but a lot of people are interested in radio at the moment local radio going global.

By Professor guy Starkey of Sunderland university very good well written book history of local radio in Ware commercial radio went so wrong and Cedar the past to the BBC comedy magic also returning to the podcast Faraz Osman managing director at the TV in the lemonade money for our on the show you were saying you were the creative director of lemonade money and we tried to pick up up what that Roman to know you got a new job type and how you got me thinking and see what happens and see if my LinkedIn gets more kids as a result of that.

It's also that's all it's therefore as a result of being on the media podcast we find that generally all of up and it's get more listeners swiping right.

So there will be a good thing this week with Clarkson of course where else suspended by the BBC for what a spokesperson labelled a fracas such a BBC word that may or may not have been a skirmish between the presenter and a Top Gear assistant producer the director-general Tony Hall says he'll wait for an enquiry.

Before passing judgement, but that hasn't stopped everyone else has it Maggie they cancelled the last two programmes of the series the live shows in and out Clarkson's contract is due up next month.

You could interpret that as it looks like he's on the way out, but then people keep saying but the shows were so much money.

That's never going to happen.

She seriously what the misdemeanour is were told he threw a punch because he was very hungry at is that is producer, but that hasn't really been substantiated and you get the impression certainly from the reaction of the other two presenters that it doesn't appear to have been what you might call abroad and also anything which seems to have brought the BBC apparently into disgrace that I mean.

I'm just saying what appears to be coming so we still see I thinks we sold in the dark about what he's actually done, but the circuit the other side of this is whether or not talks and walks or not.

This is an incredibly valuable show to the BBC he is this very awkward thing and it's called.

You may not like him and that little in a cheese and marmite stuff but for many many people he really is somebody they tune into and they love to watch and then I'm talking about my son in particular.

So you have a real problem when you have star quality because you think that makes that person unique they can't be replaced and he does matter to the BBC and terms of its coverage because they are desperate all the time to appeal to men and two younger males and that is what Clarkson does and they have to have this reach throughout the whole of their audiences.

Why are people paying the licence fee the other thing is the sweets the national Audit Office brought out their reporting to have the BBC was achieving the same as it's got to make a 700 million pounds a year by 2016/17 and one of the areas which is not working for it is it's commercial side only I think 5 million of the extra 22 million, but it is expected to contribute.

This is BBC worldwide has actually been delivered.

And there is a real problem because they are saying that they are not quickly enough building up shows which can be sold abroad and bringing this income so from the BBC's commercial point of view this would be a very difficult move for them because in addition.

They are having problems that the 4% below where they should be anyway, so they they have a commercial gap and in which this particular superbrand does play a really big wrote highlights that weakness within BBC worldwide, but you know using that as a defence for why possibly Clarkson should be retained if these allegations are true is all like the old Hollywood system of saying you know what you hit someone with your car, but never mind can carry on being a film because you're worth big money.

It's a Public Service Broadcasting organisation isn't it for as if anyone else on the BBC staff and I know he's a freelance anyone else on the BBC staff did actually throw a puncture one of the Producers they would be let go I'm a bit flummoxed about this whole story know this is broke what two days ago.

Is it broken beginning of this week and already? We've managed to

Review this isn't producer or producer that was involved and he's been splashing on the front pages of newspapers deplorable you had the prime minister waiting about a comment about an ongoing investigation the reality of the situation as far as I'm concerned is that one person in a workplace has been physically abusive to another person in a workplace and actually allegedly that's not seem to be the allegation and the BBC a corrective.

They need to investigate that and make sure that they have a proper out coming up in a proper process to deal with that matter.

That's all that should be important right now and I think what I'm really worried about is that we have we've gone through and I'm not in any way suggesting that the two things are related but we have gone through.

Would operation Yewtree where we had stars at the BBC who have done things that are incredibly inappropriate there people that are worried about coming forward because of because like people are stars and we had destroyed any hidden fees for god knows how many years until people of and passed away before we've even got to the end of the week before you.

You started investigation properly before that person of even come in fourth come in front of a committee to say right tell her she also the story what's happened.

We already happy on Twitter saying he probably deserved it.

We've had prime minister's saying all My Children love Top Gear and I hope it'll all blow over and we had a bit of the presenters.

Can a saying all this is just a little silly little thing and what what kind of see where it goes.

I think this is really really dangerous where you've got certain members of staff of an organisation that are effectively inverted commas more powerful and therefore can get away with anything they want and junior member staff start feeling worried about speaking about information feel like they can do so appropriately and without any harm coming to them later on that to me is really worrying president of a setting it and to take a less corrosive example the nutri.

What about sachsgate you.

Look at what happened there.

There was no case of Jonathan Ross to be maintained at the BBC you know people felt that there were so many complaints at that was what they had to do at and yes, of course what happened ITV swept in with a big money DLM he still on ITV now that's the real danger.

Isn't it? Make you for the baby?

Cheers mate, if you're running on TV would you be putting in about now to take locks and away and I think you might be the reason is partly because ITV's factual ciders is doing so badly that it really does need some kind of and of course male viewers are very very valuable and that's why for example ITV's reintroduced boxing as credible, but they're probably wrestling as well.

They're looking everywhere for rescuing programming.

Would it be such as if we haven't had what the executive producer of Top Gear Andy Wilman cause they anus Ribble is this year you've had Argentina and what happened there.

You've had the leaked footage of Clarkson appearing to use the n-word in the outside.

You've had him using a derogatory term for Asians as part of the show that did make it to hair if all of those things have built up in those Maggie says there different averages of taste, but all of that have built up.

Would it be such a big story now that this one misdemeanor attack? That's the reason.

This is a story is it people like having the stars fall down and it makes it makes a good present makes a good source.

The thing for me is I hope it would be a big story.

I hope that the BBC does take allegations of physical abuse seriously between a members of staff and they do with inappropriately that means the only question here and you are not an important are the BBC as much as the pressure the getting elsewhere.

It's important that BBC doesn't get swayed by the court of public opinion and they do this is a saint in the same way that if it was a producer physically violet.

Maybe bit strong.

We don't know actually did the accent of it, but producer being physically assaulting a junior member staff or even if it was somebody that doesn't work in production and its you know one of the receptionists and one of their security guards having a fag.

Are you know we need to make sure that they're all they're all dealt with proportionately in and they're all taken seriously ok staying with the broadcaster a little longer the BBC Trust chair Rona fairhead has had a difficult week.

She first hit the headlines after declaring that the trust should be abolished effectively calling for her own sacking and then just to help her out the public accounts select committee chair.

Margaret Hodge also called for her to quit overhead links to HSBC during their recent scandals matchmaker bits BBC Trust is it in a bit of a mess or actually is she I actually thought that has speech that she made to them the Oxford Media Convention on the 4th of March in which she said really I I mean she was not trying to defend the indefensible anymore because the BBC Trust has failed fell by about 70% I would say and so as the chairman.

She was saying that she couldn't defend the indefensible that there were these flaws in it which of course stem from the fact that you have this divided responsibility have a strong executive board doing one thing you have a trust that sort of over there and partly regulating but still partly associated with the BBC and it really hasn't worked.

What's more.

What really is the problem with the BBC in this is where owner should have been good but now of course.

I would say she's completely damaged goods is that the trust is supposed to be safeguarding the licence fee for the licence fee?

So it is with the custodian really of that 3.6 billion that gets handed over to be spent on BBC services on our behalf and we all know that they've been the series of what you might call quite serious blunders with large sums of money not just the digital media initiative but if you go back to 2008 to BBC jam the Education proposal which was an online thing for ASDA school children, which was just pulled by the trust another hundred million-pound.

Just written off now.

I can see this with some knowledge, because I was actually one of the Witnesses to the enquiry that was chaired by The Burns back in 2004 when there was this debate about how the governor's should be replaced and at that time.

I thought the BBC's deserve another chance it shouldn't be just handed over to a Public Service Broadcasting commission or something external this internal kind of trust to be given a chance but I have to say I was wrong it hasn't worked she is.

What I think is sensible, but the problem now is that she was appointed before the HSBC scandal in its full horror broke III good and it's damage good, but do you accept with Margaret Hodge says which that means therefore she sort of incompetent around the BBC Trust? I mean actually said was your eyes are completely incompetent.

Will you knew about it? I actually like the Times A Sketch writer and tournaments point and she said there seemed to be no drawers called common sense in her approach to HSBC and when you hear that from somebody who is going after a half a million pounds for doing what you were assumed to be a non-executive Watchdog role on the board of the bank.

Then you have to say if she can't get that right is she going to be a good custodian of BBC funds in the future and I'm afraid that the answer has to be well.

Maybe not throw.

The actual proposal that Rona fairhead is suggesting which is that there is an external regulator for the BBC but it's one that is a bespoke.

She said you know one that is designed specifically just to do that job what you think it is no one is suggesting that Ofcom should do that surely ofcom's the right solution is not nice thinking about this recently as well because the thing for me is it's about the public that the public should feel like the only BBC and it's send the BBC trust as Maggie points out right with that is they are the custodians of the licence fee which the public pay for in it it would it's really important that the public feel like they have a relationship with the BBC and it's there's any better think that if you do an index of how close the public filter will the NHS and how close a Phil towards the BBC and we need to make sure that those institutions feel like they are owed by the people now.

I've been thinking about what happens if something goes wrong and there's been lots of gags made about how TV remote should now have an Ofcom button that every time you see something you don't like you press off, you complain to them and I think of the public have been quite.

Well educated in the idea that Ofcom exists and if they see something on screen of they don't like then.

It's almost like they are the people that you go complain to I'm not sure that the BBC Trust has done that good of education is to ask what they are for and the fact that they are there to represent the people I think the problem with that is that they got BBC in the title and so it feels like they are a quango of the BBC rather than something that represents the people and that needs to be sorted out.

If not, done a good job and they are you feel like they are your accent to BBC that maybe something that we look at the problem.

We have with that is its whole sense of therefore where the licence fee go and if if I'm coming in looking after the licence fee should they be looking at how they split the up between other broadcasters along the way you know we have lots of political issues.

We have to deal with but the real issue can be comes down to how can we create an organisation that the people feel like they can own and they feel like they can help shape the service that they effectively pay for completely opposed 2004/2005.

Does it had to prove itself and also it was in a way very aggressive and interventionist? I thought unduly interventionist regulator my worry now.

So I'll come has so much to do because it also has been given the duty of regulating the Postal Services for example and it also as we know has many other duties to do with spectrum, but I actually think is that are Ofcom has really and it's Spurs and I'm I'm surprised at how well it has operated and remember too that the responsibilities for areas of a complaint are split.

I mean Ofcom has some of the areas of concern the BBC Trust is is the Guardian of the impartiality area so it's this is another problem worse if you like for the public.

It's very confusing.

Where do you complain? So if there is a case for clarity and a beefed up division of Ofcom might do it.

The other aspect of this though, is that it pains me to say this but it has to be said that the national Audit Office whether you love them or hate them and I know people BBC absolute them have actually exposed an awful lot of things which have gone wrong in the way the BBC has been handling money and wasting money in one particular and so there is another argument that you might give the national Audit Office the right to sort of launch investigations or a look at that aspects of BBC spending that is worrying it worse at the moment.

It is it is restrained in in where it can go out so that I am I don't like saying this but you cannot have a situation where if you believe the BBC is a great broadcasting which I do that money has been wasted energy keeps being dragged into disrepute I can see I am telling you listening so in all sincerity.

There was a real earnestness across her face during that whole conversation genuine paint.

Because I love the BBC and Anna and it pains me that's all I got a T-shirt without removing I love the BBC but it pains me more stories after this episode of the media podcast is brought to you by squarespace squarespace provide everything you need to build and host a beautiful looking website without downloading any software whether it's for marketing a new show selling your back catalogue or hosting podcasts squarespace has a solution for you and if you have some great photography at your disposal squarespace has designs that will give your site and modern look and if you need photos squarespace gives you access to Getty Images huge library of pictures plans start at $8 a month and includes a free domain name if you sign up for a year for a free trial with no credit card required head the squarespace.com now and you get 10% off.

A monthly or annual plan by using the code mediapad at the Checkout this is me Clarkson affair with breaking most of Fleet Street wear on their way to the British press Awards magic who were the big winners who were the also-rans.

This is the time has come out really on top not only was it newspaper of the year but it had that the report of the year and Andrew Norfolk for his exposure of abuse of girls in Rotherham but actually it's so it's more than that it has been campaigning on this sort of reporting on.

This is the chief investigative journalist on the Times since they say 12 years ago and he was a lonely lonely figure based in Leeds at from a great deal about time when people would not actually right that the truth was that the majority of the people abusing these girls were of Asian or certain extraction.

I thought

It was absolutely right that he was crowned the other person who was also winner was Anthony Lloyd the foreign correspondent who was betrayed and beaten up and nearly but he could have died with his photographer in Syria last year who has a very very brave and distinguished track record so my heart really lifted to proper Jonas enterprising and who I have walked away with his topic was so good for the times and I think will suit sales again up.

Seuss extraordinary doesn't it that you know you it is a paper with the paper yet.

It's sales are going up it appears to be working for them for as fascinating.

Right now.

We we speaking a lot radio is speaking a lot about kind of what's going on there and you know it going to say shutting down wallpapers at you know I had lots of rumours last year that we should be losing two newspapers that that doesn't seem to happen apart from obviously what happened in the news of the world.

I guess things have kind of steady down a little bit.

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Not that I've actually watched it and never even used it.

That's right.

This is a fake review and I can paint quite the picture for the right price of course wasting your time and your money.

I think review could cost you more than you think a witch membership.

Helps you avoid these lies search which for impartial product reviews which.

Keep questioning you know we may be seeing a point where where there be free for that we saw in previous years may actually be bottoming out now and and things to assume.

It's getting to the point where we can start looking to see if this is the point where you know where people going to pipe a person and people don't buy papers will go online and and now we're in happy place with where people want to read their Media reporting and analysis funnily enough of US into the media podcast few weeks ago and you did your special than there was a really interesting report with the mirror was had so many journalists back in the day and now there's there's hardly any that are there and it's just not able to do as much genders as it as it was previously it also did Connor MacLeod that what's happening at the Telegraph as well and and other stories around their reporting of the Hedges EC Christ

Which I think it's probably the singers dominated kind of the press about the press bigger than than than either walls which is always a shame because I would much rather be in a position where we can celebrate people doing good work round criticising for doing the hard work you mentioned the mirror though.

I mean actually they did win the digital award slightly awkward, but it was the same week of course that they were in court to admitting to phone hacking but they did with the digital award and actually I think we've in terms of the day mirrors.

It is now very well deserved that she there innovating the way that they blog about new stories.

I'm in a LBC at 23 at night looking any stories as they develop and the mirror are always on it and they know how to do things in a viral way, but it shows that you can go from a real also round when it comes to the Digital space and suddenly beat the Guardian it's now been completely overhung by pulling a phone hacking allegations of as such as continue.

It has really rock my face in the brand but at the

Moment it does actually use it has a point of view.

It knows where it stands and it goes for things and that gives it the spirit which is really important in newspapers or something completely different now The Social Network snapchat's been valued at 15 billion dollars after a proposed investment by the Chinese e-commerce site Alibaba this comes a month after the mobile app announced a string of new content providers would be promoted using its new discover feature including National Geographic advice.

I've been seen the odds on Sky News with Eamonn Holmes pretending to understand what Snapchats is which is quite amusing at 4 as you make things for young people what makes up Snapchat Snapchat is why it's so appealing to be under 25s buzzword in imperial.

Is that right? I'm now it's not right imperial imperial cereal.

I think that's right now.

It's so it what it is.

Isn't it? It's a sir.

I feel like I'm explaining what they use for up to you guys, but it's affected what Snapchats is it allows you to send timed messages videos text and photos effectively disappear after a set time.

It's use a lot by the kids and the millennials and their teenagers, but it's it's rice success has been phenomenal as there's no doubting it and obviously they had the attention of Facebook they had the attention of now Alibaba and and they've done something really interesting things in that space the history of the company and why it was started and and what is being used for in the past as obviously got some question marks over it.

They seem to have ridden that storm out and there is still a place where there's a lot of sexually explicit content isn't it? Wouldn't know not opening.

I know everybody is it that is a question if there's no doubt that the popularity the service came came down to this phenomenon of texting.

You know you open it you open a picture only appears for certain amount of

This is where did the kind of crisis around? What kids us a picture of the sending each other and was doing and and it was all part of that story but I think you can and can't hold it down.

You can see the photo and video of all the text from is the last time and it disappeared because I haven't heard about it.

So this is great.

I will iron them to sort me out.

How it works when it's not a day, so tell your parents are using you see if that was the secret success I care about is it a surprise that these big corporations.

You know Sky News National Geographic want to be involved in it on a corporate-level lending their brands or something but he's just like me and particularly in the US are interested know what figures are like outside the US but particularly in the US if you go and speak to people under the age of 21 about what social network.

Do they use is two of them Instagram Snapchat that's it and they're not using Facebook anymore and not using.

Myspace or friends there any of those those guys I made it to the day using is Instagram and Snapchat that's how they talking to each other that's what a conversation Liz and the wherever the conversation live that's where the value is there was vice all the food network or Sky News can get into that place where young people chatting to each other that has value and Snapchat doing a good job of leveraging that but what is really interesting? This is what I would argue is a bigger picture round this there were lots of? Asked around how these websites were going to make money and what was seeing if you were going lots of different ways tinder have now started doing subscription-based service which I think is hilarious where I think if you're over the age of 28 you have to pay where the UN de.

De de 2018 free or something bad like that.

We having his supper idea.

I think that they say that they doing there.

Are we going down the page route Snapchat than a good job of making content deal to people and I'm sure they getting paid handsomely for that Facebook is dead.

Wanted his weird advertising world where every second place TC is an advert and will now Saturday see how all of those sites to go to monetize himself and get to these crazy figures of if 15 billion were looking at the Snapchat now.

I mean it's just eye-watering but if they can if it like I said if they can own and be in the conversation where young people are that has immense value and you do want to be at a part of that conversation when you are making the content.

Do you are professionally nevermind your personal Snapchat doing that means making a video in portrait mode doesn't it because Snapchat won't let you reversion something that's landscape.

Do you have to think about that when you're out and shoot around and around making video for social media and one of the challenges that we had in some of the work that we did last year was making Square videos and we just gone over that got got over that challenge where formerly you shoot something.

Can you just do it normally in 16 by 9 in fact Evoque with only I would like a fairly recently got to 16 by 9.

He was happy about that and now getting situation when we have to refrain everything Foursquare portrays and now Snapchat much sleep today.

Aspiration to Pure it's like me I've got the situation where they want video in portrait now actually do the joke email about Eamonn Holmes is I think is really interesting cos that's one of the things.

We when you see a friend where you have that full length body of a man that she is it looks quite good.

I'm going to be delighted payment is live webcam FaceTime personality about you feel like you've got that person in there talking to you, which actually I think it is feels more intimate than than that landscape.

You're watching telly.

You're you're watching video there is there is something is psychologically and I think that if they can make that work.

Yes unfortunately companies like mine with I have to making videos in portrait, but surely find some nice tricks about it along the way I mean Maggie May play we're not we unfortunately cannot find you on Snapchat but if you were Broadcasting Company

He's almost unfair release companies.

They do have to now think about making Irvine you know making a YouTube video making some sort of online content you can access through something like iPlayer perhaps in addition to the main product has a podcast as well something rodeo babe now.

You got a Snapchat to you.

Got to communicate to the audience on Facebook and Twitter and all of that is not even the programme.

They're making it's all additional content around the programme anybody gets to sleep but on the other hand its marketing isn't it? I mean people used to spend an awful lot of effort on other types of posters and going to snow is 1L so it is a form of marketing and once I imagine once you've got your formats you can surely do it fairly rapidly plant also it comes out programs becoming brands, and I think once you start seeing things like the X Factor House of Cards and all they saw these programs which feel like and Top Gear is one of them where they feel like they're bigger than the channel them.

They're bigger than the actual single TV show TV still the best in case.

Call of creating a brand but once you've done that if you can exploit it lots of different spaces, then I think that's a good thing because the best brand will travel with you.

Wherever you are have brand will travel like it ok moving on to radio now we spoke about the proposals for a second digital Multiplex last month and since then we've seen some fiesty behaviour from both sound digital The Consortium headed by Bauer and you TV and listen to digital which the Midlands based radio group Orion media are behind at Maggie what have you made of the bed so far cuz it's first time you've been on the pod since we heard about the two two organisations fighting for it basically.

I think it's a good idea that there is competition and I also think it shows surely that this is the second commercial Multiplex the digital radio is coming to life wish it whoever wins has going to be scope for 18 or so news new station's I've looked at the list them all kind of interesting different niche.

There's been this terrible terrible.

Problem with the development of digital radio we still are not at the point remember 2015 was appointment.

Maybe there could have been the switch on ridiculous.

I had to get 50% had to have 90% coverage of the UK that hasn't happened but and you know where it maybe we're nearly 40% but it's not it's sunny seems to have stalled a bit you've also got this weird situation that everything that's happened has benefited.

It was seen the BBC share of radio listening while commercial radios decline to 42% I mean it's just an amazing situation to be in and you've got this quasi networking going on in in commercial radio than in many ways that are in my opinion anyway stifling off originality and all the rest of it.

So this is maybe a chance a second chance after chance.

You might say for commercial radio to get into a game not necessarily with the BBC because they have to be mine usually have to be more commercial they have to know who their target it does give them the chance of getting.

National coverage the big problem of course is that we still have digital audio broadcasting which is is is is kind of compromised it doesn't have the coverage it still hasn't got the the kind of the motorways Awards all sewn up in the cars.

Ok half of new cars get and a DAB radio but 10:30 I mean it's it's is a bit of a steel halfway has put its kids getting their back to what you were saying for as about branding doesn't it mean away if you've got a platform like DAB that you can show people a brand then.

They could be engaging with it actually on their phone.

They could be engaging with it in the form of downloads.

I don't actually have to be listening to the station Blackburn to them be successful completely honest.

I think we're all a little surprised at that DAB has actually continued to be part of the media diet all the way up to this stage.

It like like man.

He was saying there was a doomsday scenario.

It was going to be you know as long as Amy switched off and if people saying that DAB is never going to work with internet radios coming along and I'm going to be the end of that and satellite radio DAB has just done a very good job still sticking around to this time.

I must say I'm I'm

Why is there what would not seen his more innovation around planning your radio where you can record radio shows as I come out and and we can we can put those into cars and you have like a little bit like how I find it away and in that space where you are you actually you can create your own bespoke radio station and and take shows on the way where we have seen innovation in that is in the podcast 16.

Obviously he had a reason why we here but you know the success of cereal breaking that down into the mainstream.

I think it's going to get people going to start looking at radio is DAB and how they're going to happen if you start starring by the BBC or a good example of that was only last weekend a Crosman BBC Radio 2 did the Pop-Up country station we still think I think it's coming in on that but quite encouraging numbers 107000 request for audio just online so far and that an example of an ancient country music which is part of one of the digital bits actually that clearly there isn't a niche audience out there wanting to engage with the at the moment.

It's a BBC doing it well here.

Here's an idea for any any DAB people out there.

Why don't we just keep one station 34 brand so we have pop-up the Pop-Up French Connection radio station pop-up radio all Saints radio station and get them to pay another nice good slice of the above the DAB pie, and then allow the whole butthole prices entering the marketing and inspection come down.

I'm sure there's so many brands out there.

It would love to have a big PR campaign for a month for the launch the round radio station and then we can come I start seeing we can push him more commercial but we need to see innovation in that's fine.

If you have I don't think Tony Blackburn would do a pop-up show on the French Connection how do you say let me just say a black bandana great joke on Radio 2 country about her Shania Twain's brother.

Chuchu anyway, that is it for this.

Week's show except hold on.

What's this? It's all media quiz yes right this week.

It is entitled.

You a complex Media equation and after quantifying the variables you tell me the answer at the winner gets to switch on the Large Hadron Collider the loser head to the Clarkson enquiry right equation number one buzzing with your name's when you know the answer - P3 + 50 days =.

Oh, is it saying about the sun? Yes? It's something about 1 then + 50 then.

I'm going to have to sort so he gets the point although the actual story was looking for his the Alex Spence the times Media and it has left he was revealed pastry and it has now been 50 days since it was last in the sun, but you know he had least like the embarrassment of YouTube on page 2, but everybody thought it must be true and they followed it and then of course it was kind of truth because the pastry came back, but then it has disappeared and he's a very good John that's just well.

You're probably find a job somewhere else yt not hear about this is mine.

Write equation number to 830 - 392 =.

I'll give you the answer it's it's 438 but why is that equation relevant 438 is the amount of votes that someone received becoming a voice it's too early for voting and the voice it's not away.

You didn't say 4 hours that doesn't matter ok Maggie one that you say Maggie and then say the Guardians staffs pole.

They say Maggie this is Fearne Cath finer who came top of the the votes cast for the next editor of The Guardian but the votes cast by the people eligible to vote on the staff and all the rest of it and so she beat Janine Gibson who was the former Media editor of The Guardian and I'm she beach start with Gambler who is the who runs the technology side including the reorganization of the websites and was there another only in the last episode of the media podcast I confidently predicted that via Annabelle with the two best candidates.

Based on their CVs and the hey presto activates by the moment because God knows what happens next to so many people who have applied from outside of the Guardian if you were to put your money somewhere.

Would it be on pathfinder being and editor-in-chief then? I just don't know she's a woman she's got great experience.

She's got charisma.

She's got guardian values you know station to her.

I just don't know what they're looking for an equation number 3 bus save them very lame participation from both of you today is the tie break in a way that isn't at all engineered equation number 3 330 calls ÷ 18 telephone extensions, = what's the story? We referring to 18 telephone extensions who's been making calls this week or having their calls poured over we made reference to it before it is.

I'm saying Maggie the phone hacking trial mirror Jonas who were besieging all sorts of celebrities is pretty good video presented by the barrister.

David Sherborne he came up the phrase industrial-scale phone hacking and claiming damages against trinity mirror give me any long-term damage with the mirror actually said that you've been put off the brand but you think the public will be well.

I mean that the problem is really that these are kind of the after Iran Shiraz because all of these sort of attention was focused really on the news of the world in the sun, so it's kind of there's a kind of boredom factor that session despite the fact that such massive celebrities involved right well, what a Triumph Maggie what a wet fart of a Triumph you have won the league with this week.

You were here to defend your title vera busley.

That is it for today.

My thanks to Maggie Brown antiplasmin.

Thank you next week.

We will be taking you to Milan for radiodays, Europe.

So we don't spoil you I remember you can hear new episodes as soon as they're ready by subscribing at the media podcast.

Come out.

We are also on Twitter at the media podcast or you can like our page on Facebook today show is dedicated to John Kroll a journalism professor blogging at John crawl digital.com and to Steven shandor a massive anglophile in Pittsburgh surviving on the Guardian app podcast and a VPN connection to UK television, I've been Ollie movie producer Matt Hill until next time bye bye.

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