Read this: #19 - Sony’s PR Disaster, Serial breaks records - The Media Podcast with Olly Mann

Welcome to the media podcast I'm only man on today's show Sony cancelled their North Korea comedy after being hacked and then those terror threat will ask our resident PR Guru what they can do to get back on the front foot will react to the end of serial the podcast that broke download records Channel 4 News gets trigger happy and nearly scuppers a six-week trial in the process process changes of the top of Ofcom the Guardian and classic FM and it's the last ever chance to win a creme egg in our Media quiz.

This is the media podcast sponsored by audioboom exodus has begun so down the line this week.

We have in Birmingham powerscourt PR consultant James Robinson hi James good afternoon.

Hello the Christmas party's over for you, but yeah, we had our office party yesterday and so that is the last the Christmas parties for me.

I'm glad to say it's not quite as much fun when you middle-aged.

I mean, it's actually sometimes you do in your heart if I've got to go to one straight after recording this and you think when I'm there.

I'm going to enjoy it, but the prospects of doing more small talk over as I can't hear what anyone says in a library Mandy have a good trying to have a conversation with Iain Dale over a bowl of peanuts in a nightclub the other day was hilarious and from her South London pad.

It is media writer Maggie Brown hi Maggie how is your Media calendar beam shaping up this week, but I have been out today.

I've been to a very very good conference on the BBC at City University where the great and the good that kicks off by John Burt and then James Harding and other assorted Grande is the heaviest idea of doing can speed conferences at city and that the holding 3 on the BBC the first one last July was where Tony Hall suddenly Anna

I said he was going to think of outsourcing a BBC production turning it into a solar stand-alone unit this one had quite an interesting statement from James about current affairs and the direction of travel etc.

It was good.

This is the kind of the past fortnight and let's start with the one that's actually unfolding pretty much as we're recording this show today Sony over the past few weeks.

Obviously there was first the news that the entertainment division discovered their computers have been hacked, then they found out it was a group called Guardians of peace and that that group might be based in North Korea and that all this might have something to do with the imminent release of the interview that comedy film poking fun at Kim Jung Hoon and then of course this week the imminent release became a not release at all as Sony Paul's the film sighting threats made by Guardians of

Peace to cinema goers and also because pre-match every cinema chain in the US opted not to show the film to know if course is a backlash against Sony isn't there Rob Lowe tweeting today the hackers have one and utter and complete victory for them.

Jimmy Kimmel calling me cinema chains refusal to screen the movie and an American act of cowardice that validates terrorist actions and sets a terrifying president at James's right isn't it was right in the sense that the cinema chains have given into threats and another thing is some debate over whether they can actually call these people terrorists, but I guess the implication from their threats was at the some sort of a violent act might occur.

I'm interested particularly because I think the US authorities have said as far as I can see there is no credible threat at all in these words from the Guardians of peace.

So it does seem quite remarkable capitulation really in the face of idle frets from someone a group we know very little about and and

I guess they do the back ashes is something I must have been prepared for the course you can imagine it another side way in which they gone ahead with showing the film and as unlikely as it seems there was some attack then you can imagine how badly the cinema chains would have looked so but it is it does raise a whole host of issues.

I'm in the other it is true.

It raises is whether the media was right to report the Hacked emails out in a we've had his emails about Angelina Jolie another studio stars and executives and there's a lot of factors including some of the stars of the interview itself is criticise the media for reporting a hacked in the first place yay Maggie Sony got pretty sure he didn't know with media outlets for reporting on the Hacked emails, but actually it has James suggest.

How could they not do that have caused the media is going to report that so the story and it's got all the ingredients hasn't it? Showbiz just public interest and also just human interest so I mean it's only expects people end.

Need to promote their red carpet launchers and review their their films then they have to take care of the other side of it to who was one of the victims of the hack actually said this day of these stories are not in the public interest and she said that Well Clinic and could hardly be more in the public interest some of its its it's gossip and slightly salacious stuff, but the but the whole yeah, it was too much shooting the messenger to criticize the media reporting on a story about the world's most oppressive regime hacking a major Japanese and American studio and disseminating emails about major the other most famous people in the world and it sort of beggars belief the whole thing has been mishandled by almost everyone has an it, and it is quite remarkable that Floyd started.

It is almost a joke and it is becoming a big film for a big studios been pulled up, so it seems absolutely crazy in the end.

This is going to be a guess.

Ok, so full PR is good PR not so much for the executives involved but certainly for the sales of the DVD in the Blu-ray at how should Sony have handle things differently James APR mean if you were instructing them? What should they have done a bearing in mind this was taken as I'm going to know you're at your legs exercises on caution about the word, but it was taken as a terrorist threat.

I think the answer is quite simple which is that they should have said we operate in a freezer sit and democratic Society and we do not succumb to terrorist threats or threats of any nature and the film will be released.

They could have said that we are working with hearts cinema chain partners are on at the cinemas.

That would do to show the film across America and the rest of the world to come up with you know new security arrangements or ways of making sure this film is distributed and if they couldn't do that.

They won't pair to do that.

They could have said we will find a way to make the still available by whatever means necessary well if that if that means partner with Netflix with that means getting our partnering with cable companies across the world if one principle remains Apso

The sacrosanct and that is we will not be bullied into canning a film that is a comedy film about it will be doesn't matter that the soccer matches almost irrelevant.

If that's what they said, that's what you're absolutely what they should have said on I think they'll probably won't be surprised if them then regretting not saying that night and Maggie I mean I was just thinking about if this had been a British company involved rather than an American the one you know what we've got happy BBC having some controversy this week for her playing out the assassination of Margaret Thatcher book at Bedtime and channel for a few years ago had the assassination of George Bush didn't they said he's kind of Revenge fantasies about killing politicians not new even though this one is clearly a knockabout comedy.

I think if this was the BBC or Channel 4 they go ahead and screen it.

No, I don't think we would have been as wet as has happened in America work since to meet his serious got completely out of hand but then that's kind of Hollywood for you I suppose so.

When you think of all that a lot of the James Bond type films seem to feature and mad I always thought North Korean type start out dictators, so I just seen him stupid you do wonder if hacking had been an option available to North Korea when Team America World Police came out as a result of the podcast now because they're serial the podcast made by the team behind the Public Radio Show this American Life came to an end this week after 12 episode as if you didn't know about for the uninitiated serial featured the reporter Sarah Koenig attempting to unravel what happened on one day in 1999 which resulted in a girl's death and her ex-boyfriend being jail.

It's broken records and introduce a wave of new people to podcasting and more importantly than that it's become the conversation that everyone is having you know you lose count the amount of times people say because of Sue

Wheelbase all because of cereal that and that's the change isn't it Maggie people are really talking about this.

I think there's a lot of interest in dedicated podcasts which are serving a particular interest group in and obviously cereal.

Is is a form of he might say detective story a real life detective stories.

It seems to me that was kind of like the watercooler moment you know which is something that people talk about intelli, isn't it? But the watercooler moment coming to podcast people were saying to each other have you heard yeah absolutely third podcast agreement for jainism and away, but it also shows that we continue to be absolutely obsessed with crime and murder buy something for you.

Look at the missing finished this way to me on the BBC showing another BBC show The Fall as its climax this week and then you never Broadchurch all the bridge the Killing that needed that obsession with storytelling which I think is something that we almost had to have.

Universal human beings we have a real need to hear and hear stories the matter what you want medium and and crime as the vehicle for that at the moment but almost becoming defining characteristic of an average really and I know that the other thing that those courses that from a commercial point of view podcasting is still pushing the boundaries and trying to feel the way towards making a profit and and find a business model that works cuz I think they know it's free part funded by advertising and it enough that I think I might saying the second series Wychwood will happen is his part funded by the listeners.

Could that after our crowdfunding campaign so many just shows you that there's no one way of doing me during the moment that does different models and Andrew really talk like the wild west Disney commercial terms and Craig David change things because this week love comes Public Service Broadcasting review which was on here television and radio pointing out that there's been a sharp decline in list.

Radio specially amongst younger people because they're choosing to stream music and access music in particular in their own ways but interestingly this kind of podcasts which is not so far from being actually read to and it's kind of an easy-to-use and digest this could well be that the sum of the other side that the positive side of this that there is a retired at if you like speech radio old speech stories which are not quite the same as radio but very gripping and topical so it's all good news for Stoke-on-Trent it because you can get your music from Spotify you know this is this is a mate so interesting because it's like it's almost like the Dickens did you know 100 years ago or more in Victorian era? When he was producing some of his greatest books were written as cereals Anthony ironically they were produced in London magazines, so I've had to wait another week for the next episode if you like.

I'm at that's what this is replicating in a strange way.

Built-in secrets of of cereal is that you knew it was going to come to an end and reach some sort of conclusion however unhappy some of the hardcore fans are with the conclusion that it reach you know that I would argue something that's come about actually not through podcasting getting popularity but but through Netflix years is this idea of the box set isn't it you watch your way through a season of the thing I want to how many people actually listening to cereal and discovering podcast relieving think of them as podcast at all.

They just shows on the internet.

Yeah.

That's true.

And I think it is all about the changing way we consuming TV radio films podcast whatever you want to call them United or what whichever me do my armpits.

I mean is great to see because he thought it's like a thousand flowers blooming whatever this of cliche but it's good to see the people can do this without huge uni don't need to have sums of money.

You don't need huge corporate backing.

It will be fascinating to see what comes next OK Google I bought after this this edition of the media podcast is brought to you by squarespace sure.

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Belt Channel 4 tonight en may be facing a severe response from the attorney general after they released a video announcing a guilty verdict online whilst the jury was still deliberating the case the blunder which almost brought down the entire trial was twice as bad really when you consider that the whole troll was only happening.

Thanks for a Channel 4 dispatches team the tipped off police the vital evidence that led to the trial in the first place.

What's the case did actually result in a conviction in the end the judge in the case called ITN and channel fours mistake beyond unfortunate in the video police of giving interviews anticipating a guilty verdict and the judge Philip Parker QC said if it reveals there is a practice of pre recording triumphalist police interviews boasting about success before a verdict it is a practice that to my mind should stop pragmatically you can see why those sort of things happen, can't you James

Women of to be honest, I think it probably happens all the time and I've just a process that is she wasn't you got the time to find the copper after the verdicts announced whichever way, it goes to do a sound bite.

So you just do before and I think it's happened for a long time and things to do so I just think the judge was extremely shocked to discover that took place, but it's just an awful mistake.

Isn't it? When it really feel so sorry for Channel 4 9 p.m.

Because as you mentioned.

This is overshadow was a fantastic piece of journalism a brilliant program which has resulted in very evil man being sent to prison.

Are you guys are just said beyond unfortunate Maggie Channel 4 will probably face charges of contempt of court simply because someone has James has conflict to switch to early he it's far too easy to do in a digital world.

Isn't it? We see these kinds of stories quite regularly and if the jury had any members of the jury had.

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Come to learn more sets of perfume online everyone else is shouting listen.

For the clarity behind the headlines subscribe to the Financial Times visit ft.com seen it then 8 weeks of a trial inexpensive trial would have counted for nothing and that somebody would have it would have all been set aside.

It's just pretty horrific to leave.

This is the big danger now with the instant access the online world that there needs to be a great deal of caution and I suspect that there will be a whole new set of protocols established within ITN and indeed within channel 4 to ensure that this doesn't happen again.

I probably James those kinds of processes might affect the quality of the journalism if it stops reporters talking to police all makes police feeling I can't talk to reporters and we've seen that kind of story as well.

I think about the sun journalistic use of paying public officials report virtually ended the practice of Germany's talking to police at all.

I mean and I'm not sure that was particularly healthy development and we've also seen some years ago after the Hutton report the BBC Jenner's am I don't think was well served by somebody restrictive regulations that came in the wake of of of Hutton is be far more serious examples of malpractice really enjoyed as and which are things like you know I think the Telegraph filed a report about the execution of Saddam Hussein an eyewitness report before it even been executed for example.

That is just I think that's far more serious than pre recording a quote which I think is a common practice.

I think I find it hard to imagine that stopping.

I don't know if my Google and you can get the quotes beforehand but he wants to face is double jeopardy really of preparing materials that might it apparently reliable news organisations get published you soon.

I mean that's what really.

Emoji we talked about her.

It was fortunate that none of the jurors saw this but I mean you could argue not going to people watching Channel 4 news at all weather on their website or on TV and that isn't the Channel 4 news is watched by 610000 people on average now.

That is way below the 1 million Mark did it aspired to 1020 years ago and still a good number in fact when there is a big story like the most appalling slaughter in Peshawar it Rose to 800000 and with the Plus One it's audiences are to some extent consolidating news programs and current affairs are not outside of the main BBC Politics having a bit of a hard time but what doesn't change as the impact of news on screen so if you might say people don't don't either access search Channel 4 news or it's website but the fact is that other people do and and things get spotted so I've

I Had A Close Shave actually in this story was just such a bit breezy actually on Channel 4 and the shower at the moment cos maybe I know you were on Radio 4 this week talking to Steve someone or rather about the Ofcom report into channel4.com Sony quite concerned about the declining share and rate of the main channel because it's from 6.2 to 4.9% over a 45 year period and once you get below 5% then you're in a way turning into a more marginal channel than than that the 7% that everybody thought that David Abraham the chief executive when he came in was really aiming to hold but what the figures also, show is that if you add in the plus one and the four seven catch up channel it starts coming back up almost to the 6% level and in a way Channel 4 has been in the forefront of off.

Digital channels and the catch ups, but really ahead of the Pack The plus ones which ITV1 copied and has copied throughout its its portfolio and the BBC wants to copy to with BBC One said to be fair.

There is less of a need to have everything seen on the Night Live on One Channel when there are other ways of catching up snuffles been badly hit by a daytime that you're always used to traditionally ramp up its overall share by a dollar popular stuff in the afternoons of Paul O'Grady Show for example if you remember that and that's all being rather stripped away and they're trying to to rebuild it at the moment so the BBC meanwhile has rather cunningly moved off children's programming and is having a real romp at in daytime Channel 4 they need to make a mini series that they've Kim Jong Un

Global publisher of terror threats at know but you'll be controversial and Aegean everything will be everything we finally talked about media podcast which is what anyone wants.

I think and id like to be shown upon their projects at let's talk about Ofcom they're specifically because they got a new chief executive haven't they Sharon white currently second permanent secretary to the Treasury as she takes on the new role very well paid role Ofcom in March Maggie what do we know about her? We know that she went to Cambridge Fitzwilliam College she's married to Robert chote.

Who runs the office of budget responsibility as she appears to be a well-balanced popular figure has interested to read in the Financial Times such as she enforce the budget cuts on departments which was her public spending a role.

She was like a nurse cajoling people to take the medicine at a firm but you know fair and she's also a mother.

I think of two relatively young children who has

I think it's certainly insisted on doing some work from home, so she said she sounds thoroughly modern as she's obviously well known to Sajid Javid who's the culture secretary and it's making some interesting appointments and of course we have for the second time in a row a woman sharing Ofcom and now we have a chief executive not just also a woman but of Jamaican parentage.

So I think it looks as if the outcome of the we not we have now which is meritocratic based on evidence and fairly tough but advising and remember it's going to have a really important role in setting up data ready for for the new charter of the BBC for setting the context of broadcasting but Public Service Broadcasting it looks as if we're going to have a soda fully grown up person there without.

Next to grind also on the tombola of media jobs this week Alan rusbridger.

I mean this is a big one.

Isn't it? And it's this week's the editor-in-chief at the Guardian is going to be leaving in the summer.

He's been in charge of the paper for 20 years same amount of time as his predecessor Peter Preston and it's a bit our process to appoint a new editor.

Isn't it James what are the process and who are the favourites? I don't even remember to be honest.

I've got to be honest.

I just wish I could I know that stuff a Consulting but maybe might know more about that than me but then yeah, it will take a while.

I just hoping we just talked about Sharon whites ethnicity and and the fact that is a woman be great to see the first female editor of The Guardian emerge sometime in the new year when you know much like a new pope is chosen in the smoke starts coming out ever the Vatican when did the signals cancer imagine from Kings Cross because we've had the grabbed his got brilliant tradition of raspberry jam before that person as you said.

I think was it at was Alastair Hetherington before that have I got that right?

Soso and all also didn't have a great of the wrapping around 20 years so whoever whoever gets this job will be done for a long time and it'll be great if it was a woman it really was some long overdue.

I don't have made us more insight into how the process works lawro prediction Maggie gone give us a name three of the of Alan rusbridger and my recollection there was really only one candidate it was Alan and you felt that some you know his time.

I come and that was it now.

It's it isn't quite so clear and the other funny thing about this is that Alan must be job becomes chairman of the Scott Trust so no way he is also the King or the Queen make her which is is unusual did the two women candidates that are it if if if it's to be an internal candidate and history suggested.

It will be but it is when changing time is Cafe

I know who's one of the deputy editors who is currently in America running the Guardians American operations and the other of courses is Janine Gibson known to us as the former Media editor of The Guardian who of course went across and relaunched the garden in America has come back and it is basically running all of the the online operations, so she's she's a very strong candidate.

She's one of the key figures nursing that the Snowden story in revelations on to the worldwide consciousness really of everybody so she's probably the one to beat that adding the other candidates out if I've just been in his company and cats who was seen internally assessed probably the coming then but this is now obviously editing and Newsnight and appears to be enjoying that job and then you have some of the opinion makers below that most men so I I do.

Who's going to get it? So it is slightly more open field and Alan rusbridger notoriously hard to read get everyone to do the Thriller dance in Kings Cross finally on this lazy susan of job vacancies in the media.

It was announced that Roger Wright was leaving Radio 3 and the Arts Council 2000 David very quickly became the favourite to replace him, but who would advise you get to replace Alan Davie why it's classic FM's Darren Henley Maggie wires veysey chosen Henley minister so interesting I actually interviewed Darren Henry when he was made managing director of classic FM and we never publish the interview because I just say he is boring isn't quite fair but any reason predicted to do it now in fact.

He has clearly run a very successful commercial operation and develop.

And is very close, I think to advise you who is the number 2 in in the culture was culture minister and has been carrying out very useful initiatives on it musical education and cultural education reports for the Department of Media culture media and sport and also he's been working with Boris Johnson to clean made from outside of the media Circus while clearly making big are steps in in political circles and the final thing I would say is that you have to remember that the chairman of the Arts Council so Peter bazalgette is to put it mildly.

I'm someone who could have had a career in front of the camera.

He's a high-profile high-performing person who certainly likes making speeches very good at them.

Very funny very witty a good frontman.

So maybe you do need somebody who is quieter and and hard-working and diligent and Kenny and Camaro

So which member you know all of this is this is about finding private sector money to compliment public money matching funds to do the other job really in in the office finally you'll be pleased to know there is just time for the media quiz the excitement is entitled endangerment.

I'll read you the answer you tell me what the question is and how it links to this week's news got that kind of congested ears right.

Where's the endangerment I hear you ask.

Well.

This is for the last ever creme egg.

right

But that's exciting the last ever cremated cremated role of the production line.

You know this is and this is the last and we thought we'd end the year with giving away a last ever creme egg who knows what turn the media quiz will take next year so best of three bears in when you have the question answer number 1 High School student Mohammed Islam yes, I know the name.

Sorry James James

Who let me to get concept who fooled the New York magazine into thinking he was a genius young stock market trader.

That is exactly right wing very good OK answer number to Endemol shine group ok.

I'll go for this one as well since there's only so much and it was all our question.

I'm sorry sorry, what's a transatlantic deal was agreed this week? In for Maggie's what is the new name of the newly merged shine Endemol and Co companies sold question and answer.

Doctor Who Lara Croft and Top Gear pick up some Kent best theme park worldwide at sparkling rumours of the kinds of rides.

We might see in the future equality idea of The Last of the Summer Wine Ryde where you get chop down a hill in a bath baby thought they would do this about 15 years ago Nothing came of it as I was going to be in EastEnders theme park, I record I'll believe it when I see it, what happens in EastEnders been party to shout at each other place of embroidered misery.

Why do they put it into the obvious thing to do, when did it take from?

Weather making programs I suspect you'll be very pleased to know that your creme egg has already been split in half by producing that and it's being shipped out to you first class it should arrive in the first week of February Christmas post.

That's it for today.

My thanks to Maggie Brown and James Robinson will be back on the 1st of January with our predictions special you can get it as soon as it's ready by subscribing at the media podcast.

Cole this week's episode is dedicated to Paul Griffith a post-production provision practitioner.

That's a lot of peas living in Guildford long of salon pro sales.com suppliers of storage drives for video and audio creative say thank you to you both.

I can only man the producer was Matt Hill until next time Merry Christmas everyone.

Bastille zetsubou this economy, we need to get down to business to defeat the Grenadier listen for the clarity behind the headlines subscribe to the Financial Times visit ft.com.