Read this: #18 - Kids TV tax breaks, Times profit shocker - The Media Podcast with Olly Mann

Welcome to the media podcast I'm Holly on today's show a welcome tax break for live-action shows on kids TV Vodafone looking to Splash the cash but can it keep BT advert cost of time terms of profit for the first year since 2001 and as the Guardian prepares his annual top 100 we speculate on some of the likely new entries.

This is the media podcast sponsored by audioboom and joining me in the hubbub of the hospital club this week are too creative directors.

Honestly you wait for one to come along to at once we've got Faraz Osman creative director of the TV in the lemonade money and Matt Deegan who is creative director at full that media welcome back both of you.

Could you please agree for me on what a creative directors role actually, is it sounds?

Managing director stories then on Wednesday the UK Chancellor George Osborne that is presented his autumn statement announced that live action Productions for children will go the same way as animation and high-end drama at it is hoped that the large tax breaks are going to lead to a Renaissance in family programs now.

I'm at as creative director of fun Kids radio on dogs are the things you know a lot about what kids are actually consuming these days.

Do you think this is going to make a difference will this work to help the children's sector this is Zoella can claim a tax break your audience is predominate 13 to 18 year olds.

I think she needs a tax break for production in the UK any of the crisis actors.

It's a good thing as a question about where that's gonna go is it going to pretty much strengthen? The BBC's children's output? Is there a lot of life.

Action on things like Turners networks or on nickelodeon's networks a little bits as little bit more on Disney Disney try and make more UK programs that they can export to the other Disney's around the world ticket moves production from what used to be in Canada of California to to the UK it's probably a good thing probably not a panacea one of the big issues affecting lot of kids channels is up to the change in rules about advertising certain products and that's affected her some of those channels develop and some of the bigger entities like viacom how much effort they want to put in today's channels vs.

Things like MTV obviously you working indeed where you have people coming from different production sectors.

How important is the kids TV sanctuary actually growing Tamil do you think behind the scenes James and I my business partner.

We actually met two BBC and and we can't even got our experience in that space.

So I think that we have particular affinity with that space and we've talked a lot about what are form.

For younger audiences may well be any Denny tax break any help for the creative Industries as always welcome by the industry as it should but what I'm interested in is knowing where it begins and ends the word live action that does that mean that we're going to see a comeback of all those brilliant Saturday morning shows that everyone got up early to run down and watch him.

I'm not sure it does that include that sounds like it's more about the drama space and and I think that when you look at what's happened around particularly the present in space where a lot of people have come through kids TV and and now to 42.

And we don't see any of those big big 2 hour 33 hour long kids live action with live entertainment shows are used to exactly I personally think that I think have a real positive impact on the industry as as a long tail really nice to see if if this this tax break also includes that as well.

Cos I'd love to see your return to that world not least because it allows for some new.

Fresh faces to come through but they're talking about a world that doesn't really exist anymore because of channels like CBBC and Cheryl Taylor who controls BBC One she said she wants more kids programmes on BBC one would like that as an idea, but is that relevant to children who are just used to find me the channel were all their stuff is I think older people were you about channels than younger people do and they'll seek out the right content.

I think where there is a big BBC got your right without children's you do a poor job promoting on the main channels there talking up certain shows after things that EastEnders and Doctor Who which lots of children watch and promote the fact that they're on the CBBC channel from the last bit of research.

I saw if you'd have Freeview home.

The BBC's children's channels do really well if you're in a satellite home, then it's led by Disney the Disney Channel and that you thought about brands cross promotion and I think if they BBC want to support children's not just with money which they put a decent amount of cash in the gonna make it part of those BBC

Services in ASDA rerun a radio station for children predominate 87 to 12 we have some of the presenters you've gone on to do kids TV and also have some of the CBBC presenters you want to come on to find kids with her at some of them do some decent stuff around that so it's definitely a reactive sector and he's up to the the TV channels to put their money where their mouth is if they really believing in kids TV to to to promote it better actually because kids are going to look at home stuff on YouTube and that's Minecraft videos and walkthroughs and YouTubers and all of that stuff but as I mean you started on Blue Peter it might just be that we're being nostalgic an old about this, but it would be nice to see Blue Peter back on BBC one.

Who does seem a shave doesn't it? But it's like I'm not from Titanic you say is it easy to be nostalgic about your kids television with that that to me demonstrates the power of kids TV YouTube grow up with these brands and I think it's important that we continue to to support them whether they are Legacy Browser whether their new brand.

I think it's important to demonstrate that if we can hook people in the

Foot soak for the BBC because they need to get people loving that brand early on because it's it's a service that you pay for a later date and and part of the success of other brands like the BBC's is a fact that the audience is love it.

So I think there anything that can help get younger audiences engage with with media and particular television Leon is a good thing.

I think there is a genuine challenge around American voices American accents American sensibilities and young people in the UK being attracted to that and we need to make sure that balances right, but I do think there is a gap between where things end with CBeebies which is classically seen as a very British things and then when it when kids grow up a little bit they start moving towards a more diverse diet of Media it will be nice to make sure that some of that continues to be British and I hope he is well and a course American owners as well as American accents Liberty Global are in the news this week because Vodafone are making moves on them and a Liberty Global are the cable company that own Virgin

Easier in the UK but many operations across Europe as well and that's not the only speculation link to Vodafone this week broadcast reporting that the phone company Orion up Blinkbox and that's Tesco's vod service and possibly also Premier League right as well.

I did wonder that this may just have something to do with the teeth potential deal to buy back the O2 mobile business.

There's a lot of consolidation going on here is America tempted consolidation is that simplistic questions but that good or bad thing for the industry as a whole pecans want all the pipes to consumers be there a TV cable TV internet mobile and to bring those things together makes a lot of sense to look at the skies diversified business that will think they've acquired over the past few years from broadband networks of the really strong the TV and the BT coming into the market with BT Sport last pretend that was originally all about keeping BT Broadband subscribers, so suddenly to stay ahead, they need to be are we need?

The quad play to our users via mobile phone network in the beginning because I probably end up buying that back to fight against fight against other operators and then you've got a Vodafone who was thinking on a sec with a strong in in the mobile networks, but if BT with BT Vision YouView and broadband and mobile phone network threats Rosa mobile phone network to compete we got everything else as well if interested even the things that Vodafone are trying to Bundoran with just their mobile phone free subscription to Spotify sport channels and stuff theme tune to the idea that people do what was you call it a quad play.

Yeah, that's phone TV broadband and mobile phones app is not one company that deals with everything.

Yeah.

I think they say it is always good to have a healthy competition and in different places.

I think they're what concerns me about this in particular and it's very very boring America

Driver 2 beta does need to be had in the UK is around net neutrality and once we start looking at this.

Are we going to see a situation? Where is a Vodafone Owen's certain rights to certain IP you're certain channels.

You get a better service if you're on one network then if you do on another and I don't necessarily think that's a good thing for broadcasting and I think we need to be very careful that this isn't just a debate that had around pricing and around where you going to say some money, but it's also debate that had about your access to content and making sure that everyone have access to all services in the best possible way and if all of the roads point back to a few select corporation and your world.

Obviously you can take for an example sky investing in a lot of Indies which then emerging becomes super Indies at someone is running an indie.

Do you feel like it's a level playing field.

I'm going to wait does it actually boost what you're doing because you're generally not out by massive corporate or does it feel like it's an equal to be honest no one really knows that's why it's exciting to be running a production company at the moment because you don't know who you gonna making stuff for.

Next year and in 5 years time in 10 years time and we are trying to build a company that says agile as possible to make sure that we can meet the different criteria around the length of format type of formats where they can be seen who they going to be seen by what devices are going to be seen on those are all really interesting questions that continue to to pop up, but I think there anything that stops at innovation and anything that that stifles that progress is not literally good thing.

I'm not suggesting that that Vodafone are looking to do that by consolidating threatening their position in the market, but I do think that we need to educate audiences in the UK about what this may mean for housing and access their content and and the negative points across that much more more so than just the price points and and the financial competition around it to watch springboks.

Yeah, it's amazing.

They're still around as a brand isn't it? Why didn't Tesco rebrand box when they had it Game of Thrones

Aggregated from the Netflix is of the world who are themselves investing £23 of Dollars for this year in their own content is very difficult for bring Boxster to complete PC to be a big success next year with I watch Sky doing with with NOW TV not only bundling up colour channels for soft drivers who you don't really want to go for satellite the some of the things are on box sets does start to blow even Netflix out of the water so of course if I am a Netflix going to make my own stuff because I can't get hold of it.

Cos sky have snaffled global deals for it.

I'm going to change my business Yardley ironically whilst we've been sitting here discussing this I've had a text message from my mobile phone provider which is orange at telling me that I get a free download today with Rocky which I thought was something is pornography.

It's actually a blinkbox rival where you pay £3.49 to watch The Inbetweeners 2 and they're doing that.

Just texted it to me on everyone's going after his kind of bundle deals, but as you say it's really cos NOW TV Netflix and even Amazon

Really complete yet interesting business that have their own mobile phones are there any tablets most successful Kindle Kindle Fire them with their dem fi phones, but trying to build an ecosystem outside of being at a telecoms operator goodbye beard truly over the top operator by making their their video stuff available and also announcing Statham Amazon warehouse with recent Madison the audible the traditional the Book People has started to commission their own there are many programs.

Ok, if you'd like a little bit of a break from the media jargon.

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I never thought I'd be saying good news for the times as the paper and its sister title the Sunday Times have.

Made a profit a small profit, but that's the first year That's Happened since 2001 and that's according to the press Gazette at 4 as why do you think this is do you think essentially this is digital subscriptions? What do you think this is because they've had quite a good year with some strong stories, or is it because they've done their office reorganization or is it a bit clever accounting? What is it? I think it's all of the above really think that I'd like to see what the thing is on next year once you're looking to settle down around their accounting in a new offices, but I think it's fair to say that they have had a successful year and what was I personally feel that we have now seen as of this announcement is the end of people identifying with one newspaper like like we had when we grew up.

I don't think you got a situation.

Where some of the Guardian personal some of the Daily Mail personal some of the Times person what this is about people having a good Berry mixed media diet where they pick some articles up for the time some articles up from the Guardian anybody who said that they don't have a look at the Daily Mail website once every couple of weeks since is lying to you.

People are going to lots of different sources to get their news and the times got a good strategy The Guardian a good strategy and I think it's good that we're seeing some differences along the way because that's what cause he was one of the Times going to go strategy nomad because it is still beta and putting it all behind a paywall and what process is treating accent, but if it's behind a paywall you can't dip into it that you can regarding the male 50000 subscribers now paying back £3 a week.

I think I can't remember what did big changes.

It's not a mass market product anymore though.

It's a relatively new product of a few 100000 people who can see it either in print form for the daily some aurora digital form and they're going to monetize that audience I buy a copy of the Sunday Times I see on a Sunday because I can't get it online and it suits me if I'm going to a cafe and I quite like what what they cover if it was available for free.

I would have my copy of the Sunday Times

Go to bring up a wall around their material seems to have been a success so it stops them being a global paper of record something everybody can access in her in a modern world.

Does it possibly end the argument about whether Murdoch is wrong that you can't get people to pay for content at all different types of people pay for different types of people in surf subscribing to the digital edition of The Sun than it is the dissolution of the Times it is high quality journalism the past 4 years has become slightly less partisan, as well.

It actually abroad as a digital product.

It's not as divisive as something like the mail.

It is all the mail print edition is again there online operation is very much more metro ask middle of the road and success of EFT success of The Economist know it's providing DEET

Uber tomorrow today like the world bee project with bee populations falling.

We could face a global Food crisis oracle cloud provides new insights into the reasons behind this decline with oracle cloud the world bee project helps to protect pollinators people and the planet find out more at oracle.com forward slash UK oracle cloud your tomorrow today listen.

For the clarity behind the headlines subscribe to the Financial Times visit ft.com dial journalism that isn't try to tell entirely tell her it's readers what to think maybe some success in that as well for a teaching job in newspapers and getting home cup of coffee the times do that very very well, they also do the experience of looking at New long-form use content on an iPad or a for the big tablet device probably the best in class when it comes to kind of browsing on your web browser on your computer when you're at work the Guardian you doing that very very well and I think that this mix of experience is it? It's not simply just access to the content it how you experience that content as well anything that once we get a different way to plug into different parts and using on the way then and then that's that's what working Twitter I got his own has its own experience when it comes to digesting news and it's all very greedy.

Run and they will have their own play something that's what was he was one of the information is how old the people who are subscribing to this is actually the print titled assume younger right, but you receive not young Yonkers then I'll be ready BuzzFeed guess in time.

I'll be a problem even if the Times manages to grab it later talking about traditional prince the Sunday Telegraph Theatre critic Tim Walker he's been let go from his job there and written opinion piece of the Guardian bemoaning his previous employers and other national papers who are laying off their Theatre reviewers like him.

He said my decade doing the job coincided with a bloodbath among my fraternity that has been every bit of Savage and indiscriminate as the one that was perpetrated by Vincent Price in that splendid 70s shocker Theatre of Blood as a contemporary reference there.

National critics is what this comes down to 4 hours is there a place or not? I think they're actually audience isn't hungry hungry than ever to have somebody to check in for them and if so much information out there right now, but it can't just all come from TripAdvisor and rotten Tomatoes actually people one experts who have a regular review of what is out there.

Not even you can go to the theatre every weekend.

So when they do they wanna make sure didn't see something good and having someone that has an expert eye on that is is important, but I mean there's a historian and forgive me.

I don't know the exact paper and entered exact journalist, but I did hear a story of I think it was in the New York Times of a TV critic that have been moved from one desktop another desk and started reviewing Shonda Rhimes dramas, and and didn't particularly do a very good job.

I understand what it is that she's trying to do but the heat they became very disgruntled as a result of the fact that they were reviewing a format that anything will see as important as as the one they were doing previously and I think they're actually critics if they

You going to have them in your going to employ that they need to be absolute Masters and experts in the space of there in because audiences need to trust him that I just not another opinion that can read online because it involves leaving your house is probably the area of the Arts where you really do need to go a lot to be able to make an informed judgement.

I mean I consider myself someone who likes going to the theatre Michael Billington goes every night if you get rid of those people it is a problem.

Isn't it to get that for you? That's really informed.

I think if you're if you are publication.

Honestly you look at your audience what percentage go to the theatre.

Do they want to read about it in that in that publication you know it's not enough to probably quite expensive person to have on staff.

Is it shame there's not More Theatre reviewed.

Yes, is it the job of newspapers to continue an art form that for whatever reason they were the assistant support anything interesting is NT Live digital theatre.com making some excellent excellent captures some really contemporary Theatre

Due to an iTunes style opportunities for Theatre bring those commentators into those aggregators for fans where they can not only you buy tickets and gain experience something alive Rosa watch a filmic adaptations like DT2 maybe that's where they should be going to be affecting bums on seats in the centre of those things are growing you know Lynn Gardner was complaining as well, Edinburgh this year that critics weren't being sent off apart from her from the nationals to cover the Edinburgh fringe and and the print was doing pretty well as well, but in Morecambe a good point I think in his speech of the Guardian which is there is a symbiosis between the theatre audience and the broadsheet audience in the sense that it might not be that everyone who reads abroad to go to the theatre, but everyone who goes to the theatre cares about what the Guardian Observer in The Telegraph say about it.

Just by the fat book just because they would like to see their thing plugs supported and lauded in there in The Telegraph it's not the only.

Where's my radio station to be more radio reviewers to talk about it, but yeah, they've made a decision less important to get people to buy digital.

Copy of a x i buy quick coffee talk about the BBC now and viewers in the north of the country who are now better represented.

Thanks to the BBC well.

That's according to Peter Salmon anyway, who is the BBC's England director he told journalist the broadcasting press Guild breakfast this week, but because of its Salford productionbase.

There are now more shows being made in and about the north at does it feel that way to you.

Do you think are that the north is being better represented? I don't care.

I'm in Longton, southeast biased guy doesn't really bother me only Peaky Blinders Peaky Blinders have existed if Salford didn't exist yeah, probably yes, I have there been a run of things that are connected to Salford maybe have a bit of other things to be no anyway, maybe had a quick look at the numbers.

They can marginally higher appreciation scores if you want me to.

Gammon in your job title is king of the North I'm sure you've been looking different way different ways to say you know what is a good job.

Yes licence fee payers all across the country should be all they get value from the BBC.

They paid for is it connected to this? I don't know because I'm a bit of a London Salford naysayers one unfortunately.

I think that he suffered was a bit of a money pitch what I would have liked to have seen actually is the BBC ring-fencing budgets for Productions outside London and then growing abduction community of small indeed and ID also figuring these as well in a space outside of outside the M25 rather than building up in this case lead singer a big property up there and moving lots of staff at great expense to the licensee.

I'm sure that you don't have that much investment of course it'd be a bit worried that you don't have a huge.

SRS light fitting in audience index mean if it wasn't then I think that this would be an absolute scandal in fact the fact that it's not being massive and it's I mean I'm not seeing sick of myself, but if it's not a huge increased and it's been what qualified years now.

That's has been operating so I would hope that there was that just continues to grow as if it's not that I would argue that serious questions need to be asked about why that move was made and what was the word the positive thing about Salford and we'll see where this happens is yes phase one is everybody from London by job move so a chunk of them move with their job any question is when they leave or or or move on are they replaced by people locally and I think the bigger change the BBC will be to have more locals working in those organisations and gradually affecting the kind of output that is more representative of the country.

I think if they've managed in the first 5 years.

Maybe more and need luck than judgement aside.

I think the the Salford and what they doing in Glasgow and survey slightly.

Birmingham should be seen as a long-term thing is it having a long-term effect 5 live there are different kinds of voices on that station now because that's not that's not back.

Yes or no.

How much of this audience appreciation blip is based on big things like Last Tango in Halifax be successful rather than you know the economics book Manchester Brasserie important point and obviously they say that there is this whole principal if you're up north.

It means you can get experts from from those local areas and that means that more more voices with different accents and around 18 around the UK can be heard but are you know the thing that really really got my god? What was that whole Birmingham situation the fact that they they move anything up there and I buy cut my teeth in BBC Birmingham and and that was you if I went up there recently to go to the place and it's it's a ghost town and I spoke to tell me about it and his plans for rejuvenating up play some great and I really hope they he's really successful, but the fact that even needs to be done.

When this whole is whole big plan to leave anything out of London exhibits happening at the same time to me seems farcical there really needs to be a better understanding of how the BBC is doing things across the UK and not just in one little area of Manchester what meanwhile back down here and specifically in Kings Cross our friends at mediaguardian remember then I'll be wearing away at the moment working at on their top 100 most influential people in broadcasting digital media press and publishing list think I'll probably call it something snappier than that when is published in any way to overshadow their hard work, but hey that's just see if we can pass it out in 5 seconds.

Who do you think this is fine tickly good year for who would you put on the power players list in media at the moment? I follow that I said what I quite like to see is how many but I would say this but how many black and ethnic minority face is going to hear on that list.

I think that this being one of the big stories of the year about.

About a lot of people disappearing from from television and media Industries that are prominently background and I think that this list will reflect that or it may go against that of interest to see who who appears in as a result and also was the last year's list was a lot about the the growth of online and those those players kind of taking over are we going to continue to see that trend or are we going to see him and you balance back to the traditional ITV and BBC One on the way.

I think it's a really interesting this year and I'm looking forward to it.

That was a good fudge, but I want a name Tegan give me the name who's going up in one but James Purnell Adidas jeans if she'll for the BBC he has got a licence fee renewal on his plate.

So that's going to become a much more important role in the next few years.

I think he's going to be up there.

I think we're going to see people from the super mega Indies so the new American home.

One Sophie previous minutes sky poker turn around now running what's the shine conglomerate Endemol Netflix bus is coming up the blinkbox sparse but everyone else I think that's going to be but going to be high up ok well, be asleep.

Sorry obviously except for ourselves expecting top 24 through 4 of us.

I think I will I mean I think it's a given Olly Murs in the top 10 for the first time this year, but the media podcast generally as well.

I think we'll certainly be there anyway Jane if you listening we will be keeping an eye on the media Guardian top 100 and it sounds on Monday the 8th of December finally there is just time for the media quiz grey correct correct slightly reluctant Enthusiasm melancholy magpie.

TV show producer Matt uses this like every single episode as a pilot for various different formats that have no place being on radio at all this week.

We're calling it quote.

I'm going to give you a quote from someone in this week's news you.

Tell me what they're talking about bars in with your name person with the most points wins the creme egg quote number one this year's crop has reached the very top in politics finance the law and entertainment the breadth of their experience and the diversity of their interests will provide a real treat for the listeners master, is it Radio 4 Today programme editor of the day on Radio 4 revealing that the list of people get editing the program over Christmas this year are Lenny Henry Tracey thorn and the former governor of the Bank of England Lord King

Having to you is it going to wait to get out? How to put more freelancers on over the Christmas period isn't it was thinking IPS look after Lily Henry Pretender his views of any interest of the today audience to all on holiday R Us figures that we're Frankfurt as if nothing else.

Just be nice to see young faces on there and some young Talent on there.

It's just people that are a bit more exciting.

I just can't think that if none of it is that particularly inspiring about 20 years younger than me.

I would be great if there was a big barnstorming name that nobody will expected you all ready for all about replenishes the people who aren't about to die.

Where is Russell brands revolutions base today to none there was training in relation to management and HR skills and employment law but that was it about the sun it is it was before my son managing editor Graham dudman.

That's been able escaped you also briefly speaking into revealing there was no editorial training at the paper at all.

He standing trial along with 5SR some colleagues accused of Conspiracy to commit misconduct in a public office by paying for stories.

They all deny the charges quote number 3 all to play for there is a work-in-progress cut from a project that was stored in a vat, but still seems to be breathing or at least emitting gas mask Chris Morris documentary Christmas sketch to plug the new Chris Morris

A documentary was that Chris Morris himself that was Chris Morris himself talking about the premiere of his new comedy sketch which is happening this Sunday on 6 Music as you say as part of a recent celebration of his work on the radio that is quite funny as people queuing up to give praise to Christmas now that he fired him over the years I like to think it was BBC Radio Oxford or somewhere.

He filled the news booth with helium to their when the newsreader went into this bulletin is there a bit of a dissing people on there today? Just as I was interested in the fact that it's on 6 Music so we're doing comedy on 6 Music now.

So are we going to change the name 6 Music 6 Music Mary Anne Hobbs presents 6 Music weekend Breakfast Show has been involved in documentary for them.

That's why why the sketches on.

The public I was still make an interesting work over the years.

It would be nice to know the next Chris Morris's and which of the BBC Radio networks he would be able to be on well.

I'm hoping that my Christmas Day show on LBC will contain an exclusive sketch by Hale and Pace that so maybe Trevor and Simon I don't know I haven't put an enquiry at the moment is congratulations St Enoch railway radio skewing quiz about will be back in two weeks podcast as soon as it's ready by subscribing at vmedia podcast.com this week's episode is dedicated to pair Larsen a photographer from scandi Viking crime land aka Sweden and to Gary strong a provincial mildly Media obsessed drug worker.

I've been Olly Murs and the producer is Matt Hill until next time bye bye.

Bastille sets of Us economy, we need to get down to business to keep your friend listen for the clarity behind the headlines subscribe to the Financial Times visit ft.com.