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And now on with the show hello and welcome to the media podcast I'm early man in today's episode of the BBC I said to cut another 600 jobs in news and radio channel 4 reveals how it uses audience data to choose the titles of it shows amongst other things and does another local TV station launches this time in Glasgow we find out how the others etheric all that plus the usual gossip from the media village.
This is the media podcast from the media podcast., they are to find media commentators both deeply involved in their respective Industries up to the neck are they say we have Paul Robinson chief executive of the Radio Academy hello, Paul I hello and also the managing editor of The Sun newspaper Mr Stig Abell hello hello now.
Thanks for joining us it says in the Script banter.
So let's just do a bit of that your week in the media village then as apparently.
We're calling it stick first of.
What's your your big takeaway in new story from this we talking about the business model to buy the company I work for which he said was like a nineteenth century model was interesting for the Guardian which it is bankrolled by a giant at slush fund which is itself a 19th Century model for funding and pull your weekend Media on India and is very very hot 39°.
I was looking for a chemical tata one of my clients companies in every life broadcaster vision service all sorts of compare companies including BSkyB and comcast top 250 managers and we worry about diversity and there wasn't that room 250 people at 1 Western person me 249 Indian men one Indian woman and no one bats ignited near felt really weird to mix with so used to having a diverse work.
But there was 249 men out of 250 and they thought it was completely normal but we still have all the pressure groups here trying to get more women involved in the industry and their the top 4 people in the job, so that's why the death of you and his room of this mean.
I noticed it is 5 people 5 men.
I think I would be accurately described as the sausage party at the moment, but obviously meritocracy means that means to change as this service show develops a more women wrestlers more female represent were working and that the producer this with the BBC for reporting on Tuesday that almost 600 jobs at ago as part of the next phase of the delivering quality first initiative that figure includes up to 500 jobs from BBC News and another 80 or so from the radio division at Poole BBC News has so far survived relatively unscathed from dqf so is this just a case of delaying the inevitable lorries Tony Hall signalling.
New change in policy, check well, I think the term in singular dqf is that one smart Thompson Attlee after yazidi careful Country Living fair at that point it was saving for all front loaded and you know James's new incumbents got to deal with it.
Helen Bowden the previous occupant of the job did indicate 800 job so it's not the so she hasn't flag this before but to notice catch up really I think what's interesting about.
This is that the BBC are rightly being forced to be more efficient but I think now they really starting to hurt.
I think these are actually quite tough savings and amazing very very tough decisions the trick is I'm not sure they're getting the external brownie points this you know we want to see an efficient BBC1 CBBC that is hopefully in good shape for the next licence fee negotiation coming up very imminently.
I'm just not sure that those who are going to comment on that have realised how tough is cut off for the people but then publicity wise in a way it kind of helps them doesn't it when their negotiating the next licence fee settlement to have people within the BBC voicing the pain.
But they're feeling as a result of these cuts either could Voice more pain that should say they're not voicing enough pain.
I think they need to actually make more of it.
Do you think we can come from within use it when they make an announcement about hate the phrase delivering quality first as as a chief something better by cutting people say it is slightly a producer choice and a job, but it wasn't nothing but it's basically negative.
I don't want to wizards of cynicism is this kind of has been announced before and you slightly wonder that they announce of big program in a year's time.
Will we have seen it at being realised in it and ask for Janice reporting on this is that double binding papers like the surname and another papers like that want to see inefficient BBC which they think it's the giant toad squashing on the media landscape far too big.
Sucking in Ottawa airport all the potential revenue in the potential opportunities by the enemies are journalist jobs and journalist jobs.
These days are at a premium people who will leave the BBC is always easy to see why people move onto because the whole industry is feeling the pinch as felt the pinch of several years, so you should never glory in redundancy and glory people's job.
So even people who think the BBC is unwieldy and inefficient and wasteful which isn't probably is a lot of people.
You don't necessarily then wants her to localise that down to a decent people losing their jobs and yes, of course.
I think of you to ask, what is the BBC for good quality impartial news is a key public service requirement of one of the son of the tenant of the BBC so they're actually cutting really at the muscle here and I love the issue of over the management.
Isn't there because you talk about journalist kind of on the front line that the director of news James Harding to make quite a few managerial appointments of late.
You got Jim Gray from Channel 4 Jonathan Munro from ITV his former deputy from the X Keith Blackmore
Going to be great for morale either, are they stay in one of these things you get when you try and reduce bureaucracy at yours inclusive to reduce it and when you try and make change you off to have to increase management you think that includes management in order to manage that change manage that reduction and I think people do I find that girl and the other thing is with the BBC you can always point of massive areas of waste dump about people's salaries near the digital thing the country million quid but in anything over.
How many people there be sending to the World Cup it will be a lot of people.
It's right that they send a lot of people but it will be a very high number and it will cost a fortune and through the BBC you can always point to other things that probably be better to be cut back before you start acting news journalist and Paul when radio was in a smaller amount of cut something but still can't what is there left to cut in radio.
I mean I think there are cuts.
You could make which were about process about how you do things I think the BBC does tend to your Hackwood individual programs and think about doing things differently I think that's the hardest bit and they could do more of that but it radio.
Two we're seeing a single overnight show with repeats on in the early hours and Radio 1.
We've got two new shows and some some big names disappearing.
I think these are actually quite significant cut to those two big networks and who's going from Radio 1 Edith Bowman are red.
Yeah, you might Davis are the two main name to a guy I mean rightly so mean Radio 1 is appropriately you know targeting a younger audience.
You know there is a point where you say how to say goodbyes Radio 1 Ben Coopers bringing some new Talent Zuma cheaper, but also more engaged with the audience at the right thing to do and then seeing it from the perspective of being in a in a radio programme you get the sense that staffing around commercial radio is relatively reduced.
Its kind of it if the show's content Janet the material.
We're not a massive that support people who are very wet really hard is the same truth of abuse if you was a look at the broadly equivalent shows in the commercial and BBC sector.
Would you see this same number of support people or would be much more in the bee?
What's interesting now is in fact that there's probably fewer shows you could actually draw to go to which you say a similar thing commercial radio and BBC of actually diversion terms of what they do LBC is probably closest to a BBC type service LBC in a Radio 5 Live you could also be a similar types of service which need on a people produces researchers and so on but a lot of commercial radio is thematic music music services capital heart magic kiss and someone which is very different to Radio 2 for example.
There's lots of speech and that requires lots of reduction, so I think you're not comparing apples with apples for the point being you that you can look at a mid morning talk show on a BBC local station which will have a small audience reach than LBC does in most cases, and you're looking at an engineer or producer and assistant producer at a broadcast journalist and researcher older Power-One scripted presenter, where is the equivalent in Commercial on the talk station legasis Eynsford talkSPORT for example would be literally the presenter and producer and if you like it then person answering the phone.
I think BBC local radio is probably the
An arm radio, let's forget not forget the BBC local radio doesn't actually sit in the radio division in the BBC it sits in the news division and is driven by buying newspaper Lodge it's always been that way.
I'd never seen in radio there been countless some director radio argued the BBC local radio should be part of Network radio it never has been and if you go to most BBC local station.
They're using really old kit in a dead not been invested in there should have been under cared for an under loved really and they do need an injection of not only some resource, but also some modernisation BBC related News Corporation have teamed up with ITV and Channel 4 to announce fresh investment in Freeview at the money going to be used to create Freeview connect a broadband version of the service that will include BBC iPlayer had also ITV Player and 4oD for the first time on the platform and if that sounds a little bit like you've you that's because it is about that then she was a partnership between the broadcasters and TalkTalk and b.
Telecoms companies who have it is alleged hijacked the service to shore up their wider broadband subscriptions, so Paul why do you think the broadcasters have decided to do this now well WhatsApp with you the world of you was designed to be a service for public service broadcasters.
What's happened is pay package has been added and set-top boxes have been swapped out to common boxes across all of the platforms BT Vision and and TalkTalk and so now the public service broadcaster States not for them what this is about is getting onto smart TVs the problem at the moment if you go and do a deal with Samsung or Panasonic you've got to do a separate deal.
It's different technology you cannot port from one smart TV to another now the idea here is that they're going to create a platform which we didn't get onto any smart TV with one go doesn't mean the ui's going to be the same it may look different it be the same EPG email.
Different customised look but the code that is behind it will be the same so they see their creating an engine to enable you to access Smart TVs in one go that was very nearly explained.
I think that help you stick me a bit of symmetry.
Does this mean that in a few years time? I'm kinda interesting that we will be effectively consuming television and online services on our TVs in more or less the same way to nested every TV is going to be connected to broadband and you'll get your TV down the broadband so the trick then is to make sure you're on that menu because if you're not you won't have any distributor does impartiality them for the way no, I mean nearly the broadcast codes and all of the requirements for public broadcaster stays that irrespective of the ways to stupid it obvious if you're not effectively for a public service broadcaster.
You will have to one you have not have no station to will someone creates them so I was kind of interesting someone create a TV show or radio show that is consumed analogously 2AA
Traditional broadcasters has been consumed via broadband.
That is not bound by Ofcom rules and will therefore be impartial and an objective at the moment that is entirely possible whether there is a move to change the regulation.
I think it's entirely likely have we just witnessed the birth of a new song TV channel is what I want to know where the campaign starts here for her or partial Independent free from Ofcom regulation broadcasting over the internet or you could podcast station FUBAR there is it is not trying to do that.
I absolutely absolutely like I said I've got a couple of regulated more regulation in this country.
Take when you view was launched and Lord Sugar was wheeled out all the rest of it.
They were supposed to be the great big Savior it rolled on four years did it was they were developing that thing it wasn't supposed to end like this was it with it being seen as a potential by definition is the possibility of achieving more in the fast-paced world of digital advertising Oracle data cloud has built its Legacy on finding the signal through the noise on unlocking potential we bring together data and technology to help you better understand your audience where to best engage them and how to measure a tool to realise true potential Oracle data cloud web better outcomes begin visit Oracle data cloud., to learn or 5 out of 5 as a fantastic Smart TV decent value for money and the picture quality is incredible.
Not that I've actually watched it and never even used it.
This is a fake review and I can paint quite the picture for the right price of course wasting your time and
Armani a Freak review could cost you more than you think a witch membership helps you avoid these lies search which for impartial product reviews which keep questioning bit of a fig leaf or BT and TalkTalk I don't know what that is because he's one of those products even if your cakes with the median if it doesn't need grappled with its huge then if you if you were outside of the median is she probably not at all? It's probably nothing example also what we talked about with the BBC investing in digital products and digital processes are in a way that seems bemusing to people after the events and you that poorly cost an awful.
Lot of money again, which possibly could be used to fund the news journalism, but will get to see some exciting new era characters no doubt deployed to advertise this new service in their very good tasting adverts gonna be something to eat for all of us to look forward to is an upside.
Thanks you both more stories after this.
Some of the stories from the media village this week a study by eBay suggesting that paying for adverts in search engines has no measurable benefit to the Advertiser and I'll be good news for Google then at the research conducted by the auction site as I'm calling them here with Berkeley and Chicago University is explains that those users who did click on say eBay ads did so only because they were going to go to eBay in the first place at stick by search engines of course with only really talking about Google here.
Everything's be worried about the global market for advertising 2 makes 600 800 billion and Google text 200 billion if that Google is the giant gorilla in this room and its entire it seems to me so overwhelmingly powerful in this area and its advertising model so well in Trent if it is taking a fedora quarter of the
Global advertising spend to itself out it would suggest that the dyes a relatively secure position.
I kind of think when you search for me and it comes up I feel a little bit well.
We just want me to click on that you might be tempted to go beneath.
Its it to find something yourself, but I think it does work and if you're in a hurry and it comes up but you are inclined to use and like I said it is funded Google going from what was just a mega dragon 028 super mega unbelievable juggernauts.
I'm sure they're feeling pretty confident has been drawing from traditional Media particularly from radio and television and get I guess this would be welcome news to those Media who is struggling to maintain market share what's really in singer? Think is that in this research? When they shut down paid for advertising consumers automatically went to the non the non-branded site.
So it's almost there there there.
There's a clicking on the page thing, but they're not really committed to it and then was really into was the only consume.
You seem to have any for the sense of changing consumer behaviour as a result of sings advertising with O2 only bought three or fewer items or were brand new signups, so we know it sounds like there's a learning process.
So you know you know what you know her navigate you know what you want.
You don't need to see the paid for staff and if it doesn't influence your behaviour unless you at the very beginning of looking for tikka item in which case yes first time your influenced eBay doing research with itself.
You know how people get to eBay from Google and so if you're Googling shoes Ebay is going to come up anyway, isn't it? Where is if you're Googling shoes and Instincts shoe shop from Borehamwood comes up that's a big deal for Stig shoe shop if it's on the non paid for search and it would be worth their monetizing that if they had an ad it's a slightly different equation isn't very bad.
I think that's right the question is if you would be on page 35 of a Google search.
It is definitely must be worth putting you in the area in front of eyeballs, but if you're going to be there anyway, then then then what what does go to me because I think my own personal reg will be you would click on the third item.
Not paid the isn't the paid for advert if you were going to go there anyway your shoe shops very good, but if This podcast next up another station launched this week.
It's STV Glasgow which is going to run from 12 until midnight everyday as for shows at the former Miss Scotland Jennifer Rush that how you say I'm going to say it is and former Clyde 1 DJ David Farrell will host the Riverside show at the channel is going to be delivered in partnership with Glasgow Caledonian University which will offer students the chance to work in live TV and that's going to be a good thing hasn't it? But Paul that's that's five local TV stations now on the air that should have been 19 by this point according to wear Jeremy hunts wildest Dreams is this experiment going well the first thing.
I thought was really nice.
I like the picture the Riverside guys.
We see the picture of these the presenters.
They do look like they're out of Made in Chelsea or something.
I mean I got mean.
Perfect skiing and perfect Hair and it's just not YouTube YouTube YouTube LBC presenters, nobody knows to let me know when is yet made any money very styles of coming on in a 10-11 Manchester to this one example this will only work if it's truly compelling.
I think Glasgow's interesting because if you look at regional Media it does tend to do better the further you are away from London because you know you've got a greater chance of really engaging with an audience and I suspect that tune given to run by Stevie who clearly do know what they're doing and also course can use all of their back office cost of the gonna use the building in all the journalists or infrastructure, so they can run this on a Shoestring there if they're losing money for a little while.
We're probably going to be fine with it.
They probably can cross promote you know so given that ownership.
They got a chance.
I'll Tamiya Gotta Have program that we can really care about I need to give me a business can make loads of money.
No, it's not you wonder why they doing it through my shop window.
All them but I mean it is nothing to get excited about no one is going to make forward to that this and Google are going to worry about it.
It's not to take money out Google speak it when you talk about cross-promotion.
That's interesting cos obviously wants thought so drawn to London live which gets a hefty promotion in the evening Standard everyday.
It's funny that is objective and yet.
You know we know some of their programs being watched by fewer than 9000 people still give you seen any London live an awful lot but that doesn't mean you turn on this permit drag queens of London I do think it is a very hard ask what they're doing.
They don't know what to do not spend an awful.
Lot of money on at they want to spend just enough to make it work that the task they've given themselves as an amount of live news have 6/2 hours a day is more than STV does in Scotland and they have much less to back it up there trying to run it off the back end of a newspaper office a newspaper Office which has its own charm.
Just with the Independent and the standard itself it seems to meet fantastic difficult to be to be sneaky about Excel somebody this is people who are putting an awful.
Lot of creative energy into something with probably very little money to an audience that doesn't really care that much and I don't want to sort of sneer at that because to me the problem is this was trying to solve a problem that didn't exist which was is there a niche for a local television and in London Becca isn't because if you want local you've got BBC you've got the evening Standard the and you got a load of Brooke white vibrant regional local papers.
It didn't seem to me that they were trying to solve a problem, so I don't quite see the future in it for thought for London liver that does Nephilim in the people involved and giving a good going actually probably the might be some little Gems there that no one thing that you look at Radio Arena in London near the local stations are not really local stations and their national stations commercial radio on talking about now, but there are some very good local stations around the country, but they tend to be in smaller towns more remote with his less.
Competition is less opportunity and they do really well and is that the fantastic station Isis today in Stirling in Scotland just brilliant? It's all about sterling.
Just all the time and you can make if I live in that community.
I will listen to that so I think if the station can be truly Glaswegian it's got a chance except is going to be on channel 23 on Freeview I was reading running late, but having finally this week Ada Media summit hosted by broadcast magazine on Wednesday channel fours chief executive David Abram spoke about 4oD love of data pull this is about how you have to register to sign in to use 4oD and then they grab your age and your address when you do so plenty 11 million of us have done that at what do they do with all this data? Well if you talk to anyone is thinking online service for a beard he said we still use data roaming need the best example Amazon where they're absolutely fanatical about it.
No nothing goes onto Amazon
I got data on it and if I've never been released the data DVD or in another format.
They won't even put it on I mean Siri this is very smart.
I mean if you got data.
You should use it and they've got a massive amount of data so proving that services is a really smart way of doing it if you know what people want to watch a new no use that to database and properly segment it you can make better decisions that what else to put on there, so you don't need to ask the question is will it translate into revenue for my father's David I'll be wanted to work and I'm going to make money out of that not be distinctly silent on and stick.
I guess you have a similar thing at the sun's anywhere you want to make sure that the data that you're taking is dressed up as something for the people who are actually giving it to you.
So they get more tailored services and I think we're at the sun less than a year into being a subscription online business and and one of the lessons.
I've had since I've been there for 9 months is the metric for everything and they constantly need to be improved.
So when you try something you really do have a proper sensitive who your audience is how they respond to it.
Who is ignoring it who is taking?
How to end and then you learnt with learning from mistakes as you're developing something is absolutely critical I think there's something called call for which is a smaller data sets which is the smallest a to z of 10000 people and they use this to get feedback on program titled.
I'd like to hear a bit more creative vision here.
You know I need the end of the day researchers find that you cannot ask people about new stuff because they got nothing upon which to judge it.
You've got a make a decision you in your job as a creative head is to say I think this is great.
Let's go and make it and then you can market it to people because when you go to make a decision you cannot research the ass of everything you do and I think this is actually crazy.
I think he absolute should say this is the job of my executive team my creative team.
We will decide what is good and we're going to make it well, let's put your scepticism to the test in our pause.
We playing exciting quiz because they're David Abrams been telling delegates.
He was asked using the call for service for how many people do you think we'll watch this program and then when the program comes out the person who guess the nearest by millions wins a prize today is going to be a creme egg with a smaller version here so with that in mind, This is a serious business.
I'm going to give you some programs from this week.
You need to tell me how many millions watched it the person who is the closest gets the creme egg across all three the finale To happy Valley on BBC One at escape the Democratic will go with pool first this time and then stayed a mental reversing millions a point as well 3.5 3.5 do we hear higher or lower from Muse dig Omega hire motorhome Jobcentre figure 4.2 4.2 the correct answer is 6.2 million.
You would like to go so stickers stick Wars hacked.
Price of yummy 2 million of their stake happy happy Valley big deal on his League first this time the Secret Life of Cats on ITV4 slot it was on because I don't have that information at my fingertips.
Only make an executive decision as I know what time of night the app 7.1 million quick one minute.
I'm giving it away higher or lower 6.5 embarrassment to everyone involved the correct answer is 2.5 million so goodwins but again that was so you would think that's because I know the song we did a country called pop idol which isn't able to send the pictures of the best for the cutest dogs did really well to be followed up with kittens Got Talent on here.
Do as well as pop idol to clearly ruination of dog lovers knot cat lives in this ITV shape is to be further proof of that which requires further investigation podcast have been worthwhile after all doesn't appear to be for the previous two people don't like cats.
You only need to look at the internet for evidence of that and now the decider.
It's one or so far Sky Atlantic 9 p.m.
Game of Thrones that stuff is he thinks it first we think Sky Atlantic 9 p.m.
Game of Thrones Wiki 800800 South Pole stake higher or lower 400000 came to my mind and the Victor today is poor Game of Thrones €950,000.99 to give you a wee take that Paul is the winner you get the cream a congratulations and make for next week.
There's going to be a crowdfunding campaign everyone's going to provide different types of.
Abbey products what we are not going to beat that hi, I think it is fair to say things better than the show whilst we can my thanks to Paul Robinson anti Mr Stig Abell wife in Ollie man at the producer has been that he'll come back next week.
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