Read this: Media Business Podcast #1: The Oscars' Business

Hello and welcome to this new bonus series called the media business podcast by Media business insight publishers of broadcast magazine and screen international.

I'm at Miele editor screen international in every month will be taking over the media podcast please.

Sorry I like to bring you an extra slice of business news from film TV advertising and more will look at the forces driving some of the big trends in the media sector with analysis from our editorial team and inside some key industry players in the first of our Media business podcast we're going to be looking at the Business of the Oscars and Awards season as a whole not just the glamour of the red carpet Cineworld ceremonies themselves, but what drives your business.

What does it mean for Talent producers and distributors and what do you actually have to do to win an Oscar or a BAFTA will also be sitting down with Elizabeth karlsen in Stephen Woolley from London based independent production company number 9 films will be honoured at this year's BAFTA film awards ceremony for their outstanding contribution to British cinema.

First let's start with a discussion about the importance of Awards season for the industry, I'm joined by two colleagues from screen international she film critic Finn Halligan and features editor Charles Gant Empire Daniel battsek the director of Film 4 and previously at mirror Max Cohen Media Group and National Geographic films welcome to you all over this year's award season venue reminders of the big titles and how they fared at this year's Oscars in baftas and leading the pack in both cases, is there romance the favourite film with the Academy Awards rumours on 10 nominations the favourites on 10 nominations over the baftas the favourite on 12 nominations for Amazon 7 if you left there and then we're moving on down with the Academy Awards Phase Eight green book 5 blackkklansman, Bohemian Rhapsody Star Is Born and black panther and more or less repeat.

At the baftas is well with the exception of first man that comes into the baftas and trolls.

How has this particular Awards is enabled in terms of where it's end up.

I think they were obviously films that start of the Awards season quite strongly and maybe a faded in some of the ones I picked up the picked up that sort of a PACE along the way season begins with venison Toronto and ends with the Oscars it's six months of the year which is insane and in that time.

I would say a star is born in that was a real kind of frontrunner people saw that movie thought is nailed on we can just hand out of the woods now and I think so, it's picked up a lot of nominations.

It's not really favourite in hardly any categories apart from song and I think first man also which was a Venice Film you know had a lot of heat behind it.

I think that film has not really scored in the major categories Claire for your with he picked up a BAFTA nomination for Supporting Actress but that's come on the fade.

I think rising would definitely be bohemian.

What's the date when that film first appeared critics sort of work put in a bit short shrift? I think there was a lot of heat on Rami Malek performance but people thought that's all.

It's going to be it's actually picked up serious nominations in major categories.

I think blackkklansman has been a real for the late surge movie done better across the nominations and people expected and also black panther that you know there was a lot of a lot of support like in its corner, but people didn't necessarily think it was going to get that crucial best picture Oscar nomination which you did yeah, I'm not agree with what's interesting about this year, but seems to be interesting man every year is just how much urban flow there is because there are so many different awards and festivals between and someone say between cam which is in May although that sort of faded a little bit.

Is it as an Oscar prognosticator but certainly those for festivals, but then you have things like the sag Awards the dga Awards the

GAA awards and you can get situations where directors get nominated as the as happened this year for dga director Guild awards and then don't get an Oscar nomination so suddenly you go for a high point down to a low point.

I think that happened certainly with green book and with a star is born in fact were both Bradley Cooper and Peter Farrelly got dga nominations, but then were pumped out of the Oscar nominations and then as Charles was saying black panther due to its enormous box office huge critical support appeared to be a real frontrunner then kind of drop down, but then it just won the stag ensemble which is usually a very good sign of of Oscar strength because the stag at screen actors Guild have so many Academy voters suddenly black panther has entered back into the conversation.

So it's it's it's a constantly changing situation, which will go right down to the Wire I think we have to mention to to Film4 Productions which are both scored are extremely strongly with the

Oscar animations and the bath and animations cold war and the favourite in both of those Instincts like about the directors both of the directors of those films powerful pallet housekeeper cold war and yoghurt and transfer the favourite have arguably taking the slots that perhaps maybe would have otherwise gone to Bradley Cooper and and Peter Farrelly for green book.

I'm not a saintly pavel's nomination incredibly deserved.

It was was a surprise as it's pretty rare that the director of foreign language film gets a Best Director nomination form the Academy given that the film was only nominated in the foreign-language didn't get into the best picture, but yes this year you've got to foreign language film directors in enquiring and husky and and your voice on Samsung S4 for the favourite so I'm going all incredibly well deserved but certainly not necessarily the way people with thinking there's nominations we go do we think the Increasingly international membership of the Academy that in the last couple years?

Sober stupid lot of effort on that as that come into play it all in terms of the way the nominations has shaped up this year Supporting Actress as well as iran's own nomination in the film it it's a really big showing for a thermochromic, but is that because of the membership or because if they spend on promotion because isn't disconnect YouTube and I'm in the house and that and that isn't she said a factor in this year's batter and Academy is the Netflix are making a gigantic attempt to get themselves noticed and they have a wonderful film.

I'm not arguing about that, but they've spent and people spend a lot of money on Academy campaigns Armin Studios do Netflix have outspent them by a considerable margin, but alongside that out.

You know I think again.

It's obviously because I you know mainly response.

The Independent films and supposed to studio films I think it's fantastic that a film like the favourite has been so celebrated has been so rewarded as was the case for three billboards last year and in fact the last couple of years.

There's been it hasn't only been box office that has been the source of the Sword of most significant Factor about her film success in the Wood used to be the box office was so crucial now.

I think there's almost of Relativity about the box office in other words if a Forever film outperforms what people expect it to then it gets that kind of glow that Academy members.

Love to be part of because you was want to be part of a success a thing as speaking of the the spin that mean I think the New York Times reported of the Netflix and might even be as much as 25 of 30 million dollars that there is any on the Roman campaign just looking back at you know the recent kind of decades since you've been for 1000 years is that a figure that's just out of the out of the sudden stratospheric compared to what it would have been back in the u.

The 90s r2000 is that a lot if that if that's a pure minutes it's never a pure Academy campaign is was mixed up with Amy normally.

It's mixed up with the release of the film.

So you should have had in the Academy campaign within release the film because the films tend to be released more or less concurrent with the Awards season.

I mean if that number reflected a pure Academy campaign that would be at least double or more than double then then what even though I should have significant Studio with span but Studios and independent spent spend millions of dollars on Academy campaigns don't get me wrong.

It's a it's a very significant portion of of a marketing budget and is that money well-spent trousers are these outcomes that the commercial outcomes of a potential for a word season films worth the can of the obviously the amount of money being spent on something and campaigns.

Impact the nominations and the winds actually have on the box office but what I can certainly say is that if you look overall at the different English language movies that are coming out that I kind of playing at arthouse Cinemas data targeting independent cinema fans now even more than was the case 10 years ago or 20 years ago the award season is absolutely crucial to the considerations of the least of those films and therefore as I hope to know Daniel would agree with me the colour green lighting of those films.

I did her a list of the top 20 in the UK box office the top 24 English language do independent / arthouse movies of last year 10 of them came out in January and early February during the to a BAFTA window that's half half of Us films and there's a call to I like Beano best picture nominees like darkest hour three billboards to post the shape of water ladybird and a phantom thread and the box office of all of those Phil

I think got a significant boost from from the association of the woods and particularly.

I think more of the small the title a phantom thread.

I think you know that that film if you look at the end of the trajectory of its American box office and the UK box office it's participation that was a little bit surprising in in the internet and in terms of the nominations.

It was getting best picture nominations absolutely transformed the commercial life of that movie on there and I know I know at the time a lot of people doubted.

Why was that film in their remember didn't play any of the key festival so it didn't have any of the normal runway up into vehicle Awards a corridor and so it was really a do or die strategy.

I got deserve it again in my opinion best director and best picture nominations and suddenly and had life but looking your own three billboards last year.

I think we

Did 40% of its US state post nominations and something like moonlight? You know made for under 2 million dollars gross 65 million dollars worldwide, you know just based on all the noise that was great.

Mum says it did invite win best picture, but even without that leading up to that your NE24 went from you know very limited release to putting it on 1500 screens in the US so I think there's there's there's examples every year of film specially in the Independent Huddersfield that that rely on that nomination for the great thing about the nomination period while you have nominations.

You're a potential winner that it's only when he was actually come around that you go from there to being either a winner or loser so during that period of potential you have the opportunity three four weeks whatever it is all you know having those ads with 10 nominations including best picture including best director and everybody wants to be part of the conversation and

In order to do that, you have to see the phones.

Do you think the astral suggested the existence and importance of Awards season factors go into calculations for weather weather reporter Kitts Green lit or not.

I mean with the university and The Prestige drama in high ends in Hindi films that obviously tend to score well with the with the with wards voters have jumped yourself because when you making decisions about film production and Investment you're going to making it.

There are so many things that come into that and into that sort of information gathering a semi creative decisions so many financial decisions but certainly what uniform for weed with very keen to have films that get that sort of Awards attention, so you try to work with filmmakers who have a track record in that area you tried to deal with subject matter that has the potential to

PO2 equality cinema going audience which you know more often than not does include many Academy members, but I think would be wrong to suggest that we should you put a note into the diary the first day that we green like the movie and sort of thing are great ok? Let's make sure we rent our tax on that day, but would it would it have any input into maybe the budget level that the film is made out with that with that will that Factor knows all I think that's very as a very difficult 1222 again to Souter forecast because although we've given examples of Incredible successful should have Academy campaigns in a way that those of impacted on the revenue particular films there are also many many many films the Fall by the wayside some of which was mentioned that that you know that should of start off like that's a first man that start off with a huge kind of trumpeting at a festival and everybody at that point.

I think would have bet on it going all the way and it didn't so I think again.

You just got to be very careful not to assume that you have the goods until until it really is out there playing to audiences and critics say that universal living in the UK and Avery headsets with a release date because if you do go in that October or November slot it is less competitive and it's not in a lemming Dave Dave Dave they kind of got their box office ahead of them not securing their nominations which is a tactic that you know can cat can be used and I think sometimes you exact you you you you have other kind of box office you have other potential at the box office that doesn't rely on wasn't me blackkklansman, as well when we heard of the of the sort of the so-called Oscar corridor because because it was a film that was going to make a noise anyway and so it did and it did very well.

And then then the suit of what happened post nominations and stuff is filled with icing on the cake rather than the cake itself are black panthers back in US Cinemas off the back of these Awards are we know it's gonna pick up a few extra million.

I think from that re-released some sort of saying spike might be potentially gonna have a little bit of an edge in the best director category for Oscar is just because he's this is first nomination.

He's going to his got such a history of filmmaking behind him in his everything recognising his way before about the Academy you can make an argument for every one of those Best Director nominees.

They all have a story to tell and their Studios are telling their stories loud and clear it since you enter the film industry.

Would you say that the attention paid to Awards season has changed significantly over the Mechanics of how it works? It is anything significant different from the way it was back in the 90s when obviously Harvey Weinstein with as it was in his heyday or when you're at Miramar

Has there been any big changes are is it kind of business as was back, then? You know the dreaded Harvey Weinstein is largely responsible for the fact that this has become such a high profile and heated and debated and and money spent on complicated operation.

You know I mean think he he and and miramax were the Vanguard for this entire situation, which which ultimately has benefited many films that would not have received anything like this.

Sort of recognition or awareness or box office in many filmmakers also so you know anything yet going right back unity films like My Left Foot and the Crying Game and pop fiction and so many of those early miramax films.

You know massive campaigns of mainly publicity in those days were orchestrated by Harvey and Incredibly successful incredibly successful, so I think that sort of the beginning of this new age.

Where are my notes are the Oscars have been going for many many years, but I don't think they were anywhere nearly as talked about in public life as they are now now.

Everybody has an opinion on them and they're so much of an industry around them in terms of the blogs and the prognosticate is on the Las Vegas odds and you know I minutes it's a it's a whole industry onto itself and it says child says that lasts a good 6 months and that's half the year when Harvey was Pulp Fiction that was starting a cancer the corridor was even longer than it seems to have contracted and sort of intensified over the last couple of years to between Venice and really.

The actual dates for the six months of intensity that to that point of anything can partly due to its specific selection policy as you know it refuses to play Netflix films and partly because I think Studios were just finding it just too difficult to sustain a campaign from may until the following March so I think that has suitable most that is reduced can but can is use a used to be a vital parts specially for miramax films of starting that ball rolling and throwing up that flare that the film was ticketed considered very serious especially if as import fixtures gets you won the Palme d'Or I did number of interviews with Talent for screen international towards week leaves and talk to some of the actors and filmmakers and they were all saying the same thing Keira Knightley who we interviewed the Colette obviously didn't ultimately nominations didn't really and see you, but she was just saying it's crazy like when I did that im Pride and Prejudice I did about 2 of 3.

Q&as and in a couple of covers and even few years against the Imitation Game it's not as insane as it is now I spoke to the green book film makers Pete family of course it has never been part of this whole thing he just could not believe his schedule.

He was like going out his phone coming.

I'm flying here and then I'm doing this and then they greeted me at the airport with a truck with a jacket and I'm doing that and I'm good.

He just what is going on he was absolutely amazed at what they are now.

There's nobody know you know if you're part of this industry, then you have to pay your dues etc, but I must have when one has been on the road with one of those these campaigns like for example.

You know when I did No Country For Old Men you see what your and filmmakers have to go through in terms of they made the film you know 6-months prior to that.

They've done all sorts of other things and suddenly they basic have to shut down.

I like for six months while they go as Charles mentioned to cure days around about the place to various glad handing events to all sorts of a water as I remember with no country got any Joel and Ethan Coen not exactly Mr Mr party person and eventually after your nan and it won everything has to be said and one point they literally everybody from the film refused to attend and where was impact the broadcast critics circle Award Ceremony and so suddenly the finger was pointed at me that if we want I would have to go and collect this would that was televised as well sure enough it did win and I just remember so well going up to collect the award pretty nerve-wracking as it was looking out at the Sea of incredibly famous faces all looking at me basically saying who the hell are you as I collect it whatever and it was this little glass jug for No Country but I mean it just it is an incredibly long haul.

And it's sorted it requires a permanent so to have a smile on your face if you're if you're any of these actors or actresses or director's because if you put a foot wrong everybody knows about it as a cookie baccara films like 3 billboards in the favourite.

Would you be involved in any of these strategizing around category as I guess clearly what I'm thinking about is perhaps the favourite best actress split you know when they're in the fact that it was decided that Olivia Colman would be put into the best actress credit category.

Where is Rachel Weisz and Emma Stone we're going to Best Supporting Actress even though all three actresses probably had roughly about about the same as a screen time.

Is there anything that you were privy to in terms of conversations or I mean the return our conversations about they tend to naturally evolved as to what is the best way to go about it.

I mean in a way sometimes.

You really you kind of don't want to have too many choices to make as it happened it kind of worked out.

Did Olivia would be best that you would be in the best actress category that seems like the natural thing and that work perfectly and then both Emma Stone and Rachel Weisz got best supporting actresses, which again sometimes you can sort of feel it seems like an embarrassment of riches and can be complicated if you feel like suddenly the vote may be split between them and allow somebody else to go in to get in but I hope that something happened.

Negative campaigning because it has obviously come into play Many times in previous years and of course this year particularly with the green over green book.

It's been there been a factor is it negative campaigning or our kind of Embarrassing details organically emerging or are in a Awards campaigners in a pushing journalists in the direction of potentially interesting negative stories, but it's always been around.

It's just that now because information is available in so many in such a more thorough manner and because

It's so available to all it feels like a tiny little mama can create huge waves and I think you know green book is a good a good example of that but I mean going back to unit the Shakespeare In Love vs.

Saving Private Ryan controversy.

There was all sorts of talk of of of universe of mysterious phone calls being made it cetera et cetera and yeah, there's always listening.

It's a it's a very hard for campaign and are a huge number of people consultants upon consultants become upon consultants and not all of them follow the rule book by every line of that and and certainly it's it's certainly true to say that every year there are examples of negative campaigning once ordered soda another and I'm sure that will continue.

John the moral standards of the of the president of the United States of the moment, but it's it's received it seems quite tough on the people involved that they have to have such a path.

That's very low but yeah, I mean listen.

I think that's just that's just the way it that's just the way it goes it's become it's become so high profile.

It says we've discussed before it's responsible for such a large amount of money is needed those campaigns and whether you win them are not that it is bound to resulting in people digging up old in a past misdemeanors and trying to use them against the filmmakers off today, but it was interesting there that I think the Producers Guild really made a statement by giving them a water green book.

They would just saying this is just nice we don't care about this stuff actually.

We think it's wrong that people doing this and we're going to give give the price to green book anyway, so one final question asked her briefly moved to this popular film category.

Last summer before hastily are retracting it mean if at this year's best picture nominations do reflect a little bit of a you don't they have some commercial success stories amongst the number including black panther Bohemian Rhapsody which which we've talked about.

Would you have welcomed a popular film category back in the day Daniel back at BVI or a cleaner in Italy on your career or do you think that says something that you don't think is really necessary in today's day and I think it's unnecessary.

I think you know that you get a pretty good representation is as this year's nominations have demonstrated of of quality and quantity and I don't see any reason to mess with it.

I think the Academy have enough to focus on you know like for example finding a house for the show without worrying about creating extra categories.

I think that this year.

They have fun the way that the cookie has crumbled has been actually been great for having a

Fab awards and films that are engaging audiences you've not only got black panther you've also got films like Bohemian Rhapsody in the star is born with Sheena genuinely genuinely popular films as well as a crowd-pleaser type movie like green book in a week.

Maybe doesn't have the box office but but does have for the Broad appeal and in the UK you know the movie that is really parking in that the houses is the favourite you know which is is gone way beyond.

I think what anyone would have probably anticipated.

I think the idea of popularity is such as of subjective thing the favourite is a popular popular film.

I'm in Stanley 14 million pounds at the UK box office that means a very wide audience has seen it and it didn't need to be turned popular film in order for that to happen.

It's just an incredibly entertaining and very high quality film and that's that's what it takes Charles Finn and Daniel thank you very much do anal very good luck.

View upcoming ceremonies for cold war and the favourite and thanks for joining us.

Thank you.

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Come to learn more at this year's BAFTA film awards ceremony Elizabeth Crossing in Stephen Woolley will be honoured with the outstanding contribution to British cinema award the producers of such a claim features as Carol

Made in Dagenham and Colette Elizabeth and Stevens sat down with screen international senior reporter Tom greater to discuss what it's like to navigate the Awards season trail it's a journey that goes all the way back to 1992 as the Crying Game which change the game for independent films being recognised by the Oscars who is Stephen it was a little bit of worry from all of us about how the film wood fair because the UK release the Crying Game all day was it was ok, but it wasn't spectacular and the UK response the film was ok, but it wasn't spectacular so when we had our first screening at terrified Film Festival to McCarthy and from from variety said the producer Steven Willy gone up say on stage and said don't give away the twists and I feel right.

I won't give away the twisted rope, but thought the film was there something more than that so when it happened he was quite shocked and I think people were shocked and turn right and they wrote incredibly well about the film and it was like sending.

Message Neil I think it's ok.

We are we going off like a fly Qui-Gon off the explorers and there's not kind of tested the water and people really really have to film and we got very heavily involved because we wanted that twist to be something we do I put a really tried in the UK and worked in the UK with giving her Presley's same please don't give away the twist and there's a huge motor credit given to miramax for the publicity and marketing at the film on it and I have to say they do deserve a lot of it because I worked really hard on it, but they do have a poster for the film when we released it going to post as a night outside the cinemas near my liver and New York trying to see how the first audiences would respond and there was actually no posters because he couldn't work out selling movie.

They just didn't know quite didn't like the title because they brought a film called soldiers wives, I didn't like the title of Crying Game so they had to come up with the strapline for the poster.

I wish they did very well, which was the strapline was play it at your own risk because they wanted that thriller aspect in there and I felt the Crying Game Vader sound like a melodrama so like a lot of British and European towns.

It was supported by their critics the critics went overboard for the Crying Game they won't just at first review in variety of until McCarthy wasn't a good review it wasn't a great with you.

It was stupendous.

It was ridiculously awesome amazing every single element and that's kind of sort of what European and British films needed at that point so the campaign whilst it was very good.

I was placed on those two things the twist let's keep the secret of the Crying Game and that holds the secret it was really really really just constantly drunk home and I'm the credits just loving the film and there's

Wards getting nominated all those things and was he wasn't your first success, but what do you think that having such a significant impact on the Awards are awarded that do for your careers.

Did that move things forward that was the reason that we travel to work every morning with our and chauffeur driven Rolls Royce and have our own private fleet of private jets.

It's because the success of the Dragon of customary huge impact on us on both of us.

Really and allowed me to go into to make film with Warner Brothers switch three films of that with the studio's with Neil and we're able to you know you we weren't able to get set up some of our projects.

We wanted to make another Swiss made little voice not long after that.

So yeah, I did it my way.

She was a huge difference to Aylsham no me.

Nothing Awards can do that.

You know that you're up, but as producers are any good as your next movie I mean it's very hard.

To make unique or original movies which is what we try and do and to start again, you know we generally start again.

We don't continue on that franchise upward Curve we generally like snakes and Ladders we generally get Side number in ol98nt a ladder and go back to one again, so we will generally go in a circle.

Yeah.

We don't and I think is the nature of what we do in the film business that we like to work with the good different voices and Anton the good unique projects but I think that send me one of the most memorable things about screening the film in telluride was the response of the audience and back then I mean 26 years ago.

It was 26 getting on for 20.

And probably it was a very small festival and the audience was so struck by that film in very deep profound ways and I remember in particular a couple who were you know middle-age like middle-aged couple perhaps retired to that area quite cultured who came up and started talking about the experience of their child and really what the film did for people as I think they found it entertaining but also that it presented a trans character and a character who could love and be loved and presented a scenario where Steven rays character assumed that he was entering a relationship with a woman and then you have this moment and it really put writing.

I sent you this question of why discriminates against people suddenly because you find out they have a physical member or they are you know it just it it really put that question right there and it really captured people and people whose children had been you know the victims of kind of abuse and discrimination and remember the film really came on the back of you had Reagan and you had bush and you had all the legislation that was being introduced against homosexuality and you know that you had the the political groups like act up and Gran Fury who were demanding that the government pay attention to people who would dying in thousands from AIDS and and this film really came just after an in the midst of all of that going on and I think that was also very very important that it registered in the way that films you know like Philadelphia register your kiss of the Spider Woman or

And that was definitely a part of it and it was just very very moving to see how deeply affected people were about that movie and said thank you so much for that flash Forward to 2019.

Let me take the opportunity to congratulate you on the BAFTA that you will see this year for outstanding contribution to British cinema, and what does it what does that mean to use independent producers? It's extraordinary.

It was almost impossible to process reading the first line of a letter because you know you just get your head down and work and despite what people say.

Oh you deserved.

It was overdue or you know you don't expect recognition of this level to happen and it was extremely rewarding and very gratifying and and very humbling and just a wonderful thing think we've worked away and you.

Epson you've had your Downs and it's just all about the working films and passion and to be recognised by a body like the British Academy is for your output is tremendous really tremendous.

Yeah, we we we represent I suppose I'm quite a large portion of the businesses independent producers and obviously we like to think this award.

Is this for us personally and they are giving us one each which was very important that I established established that because you know you never know what happens with only been together for a while.

So yeah, I know all joking aside it really is an award for all independent producers and everything that everyone struggles for and and we happen to been around for a long time and we do like to take risks and we do like to work with filmmakers who also prepared to take risks and you know sometimes that that is just go on universe.

Ozil films don't get the nominations you want on sometimes you feel like your sort of screaming in the dark and it is lovely to for someone to turn around say all you know is an acknowledgement.

You do exist and soda all the other people like you so we're very very thrilled by this ungodly.

You know that it is a celebration for us.

We wanted to be a celebration.

It's fun.

It's something that you know it's never happened to us.

We've never gone to Bath towards knowing with one so that takes a lot of the nerves out of the evening.

You know when lizabeth and I will not release of the Carol we got nine nominations didn't win one which means there are nine.

Lots of different people who were slightly disappointed end of the Affair we got 10 nominations and only 11 award so we don't have to contend with all those other people because as reduces you don't it?

Brexit and away, I will I'm always thinking well if it comes that's nice, but we've been nominated.

How great is that? You know I remember with Mona Lisa all those years ago Bob always one so we will go to all the all the water and there's all the festivals wouldn't know Cathy Tyson and Neil and everybody evolving the film and Bob would win which was brilliant for Bob but always a bit like to shame cos he didn't get something that is so great in the movie York O'Neil best screenplay or something to me and you always think and no problem there.

There's your wardrobe and I think you know for us it it's a bit of a relief to go onto after a lot and not have to face that disappointment the downside is a course that we're going to have to say something profound and and fairly am wise and had a very short in a very short speech because of the Wisley

Because I won't be shown on the telly so I think that's that's a bit of a that's that's the only thing that's been nerve-wracking is to have known for so long, but not the I genuinely as I say all joking aside we are pleased honest and pretty but you know we feel very honoured.

It's also because that collaboration is completely a collaborative form of business and arts and we have had people that we worked with three decades and you feel the joy and so you're definitely sharing this recognition and the award with all of those people that you've collaborated with because they make you look much better than you probably are your only as good as the people around you and I think that's a really important thing to hold onto but I also feel that winning twice a winning not we haven't won this we've been recognised.

This award in this year.

I feel very excited by Move by because when you look in particular list of the best foreign films and you see the range of those stories and you see all of those things that I think we have been if you say fighting for that things that have driven us is telling stories about people who were typically you no outsiders on the margins and you see you know the first film that I worked on parting glances and then we're Stevens work mentally sons and then two of us were the Crying Game in on you know Carol and all the films that we've told and you look at the films this year.

You know like Roman cold war and keep an arm and all them and I think there's such brilliant brilliant films and I think they really show in the show the themes and the individuals and the causes and the eye.

Destroy that really have driven us as filmmakers and it feels such an honour when I look at those films that have been nominated in the filmmakers behind them and thank god.

We are here this year with that group.

It's great.

It's a great feeling.

How do you think the Awards season has changed over the years has it become more influential on independent filmmaking? I think it has become more influential an awful.

Lot of the Awards are driven by publicity and spend the money.

That's really sad.

I'm not saying that they haven't always been but as we move into an age where newspapers and print doesn't mean as much you know people think of new ways of getting people's attention.

I mean you know we get some DVDs of films and just without mentioning any titles uniting want.

The film we go send 8 DVDs are and that's the title that did get quite highly prominent recognition so it has changed yeah.

I'm in the campaigning is now more sophisticated and little voice was very very different experience on Carol the machine is so much bigger and so much more demanding and so many people are involved in it and there's a level of sophistication and strategizing a minute.

Just felt like it was a sort of an presidential campaign in many ways and it is quite grueling and demanding for the filmmakers something is a lot of travel and I'm not complaining about it, but it was I think Olivia Colman said something in the Guardian not long ago.

He really is very grueling and you sort of people you have to just block out.

Months and sometimes there's two so we just have to move to LA for 6 months and I think it's hard can be hard on creative people also because you feel sometimes that you're an environment where your pitted against each other for chilli.

I found them in the year of Carol that you know edguy me who's a wonderful person in a great friend.

He was there with some Roman all of the the team of spotlight with there and actually we all just became really friendly and we talked about it and would be at the next airport luggage rack holding our bags up for the next session and the next panel and it was a lot of fun, but it was demanding and I think that it's also sort of effective distribution of it because for independent films to get out their distributors feel you need to have nominations and Awards behind them to give them a real shot at breaking out and so consequently there is this a logjam of films that are released around this.

How much is not really that healthy because some of them just I'm not gonna fair in that Lyonsdown of lobbying and competition and some organisation.

Do you have many many more research resources to put behind that program so I think hopefully it will sort of self correct and people will think you know what let's just take that film.

I mean films now independent pharmacies a good year or so you see some films I go you know what that's just not even be a part of that.

It's just too expensive.

It's too crazy and we're not going to rise above it and if we don't will just left behind will be left behind we will be able to compete so distributors are moving them and thinking will put them in the Spring but there is a lot of pressure that you feel.

Love you have to make a film that is going to be able to compete in that race so that distributors feel they have more of a chance to get the box office Returns on that independent film but it's

Much much bigger.

I mean it has changed beyond recognition from when we first did it years ago the reports recently but Netflix it went up to 25 million dollars on its Awards campaign for Roma and what do you think about that saying I'm in phenomenal amount of money.

I spent because you know it's discussed at a corporate level and it's perhaps has become increasingly aligned with business plans and what those Awards due to shareholder prices and what the potential is for a business which is subscription-based and how you bring more subscribers on but you know there is often an argument that economic imperatives are the best way of breaking down boundaries still exist around race and gender and

You know babe women were brought into the workforce because them she needs to keep going and needs to be in so he need the fact that of film like Roma which is at the centre or women and you know the story of a housekeeper and mother those types of characters are Mexican it's not the English language.

Wouldn't really be seen in a macerated level in the way that you have an hour the Netflix campaign and you know in the political climate that we are in.

I would say that that is a very fine thing.

I mean not only are they celebrating a film which really is a cinematic masterpiece, but it also is celebrating a story which I really do believe cinema is able in some ways to change.

The cultural and socio-political landscape, so yes, they are spending that money and there is many different reasons why but I think there are many positives is there are you could say negatives and I think that colour square and comment which I know he was quite spiky about what Netflix distribution whatever however that happens as a streaming platform M4 that film was very very apt and you needed to listen to it.

So I think that varies the computers content with impact and The Gambler Netflix have made in investing that money and I have no idea if they invested to Bora Bora 25 million..

I'm sure I'm sure that is close to 25 million the nearest to Barb but whatever that investment is is the argument and this is what can work.

Panaflex, the argument is fairly play more to see which is that if you go if you put a huge amount of money into a movie like romer arm and it's a year it.

What is one all my Oscar's there's no question in my mind of all the films.

I've seen Roma is probably the one night most loved however if that does when the Oscars has Netflix film and that the only way of seeing that film really is on Netflix cos it won't didn't get proper wide distribution and got some distribution and if it's because I put all that money into it.

It does send a signal and it's not about the content of that film.

It's about what the future is for cinema and how that future could be interpreted as well.

That's what wins Oscars you know.

What is the Oscars then become that's all it's not big? I'm not making an opinion about it.

I'm just laying out what we're seeing where you are question about how it's changed.

You know it you can compare it to say in her other movies which of which have been astonishingly revitalise by all you have been thrust into the mainstream by the Oscars you know films like Brokeback Mountain from Santino which may be nobody would have seen without the Oscars and you can list all of these great movies at the Oscars have given a big lift up to and all this great filmmakers and directors and actors writers, but this is a different phenomenon.

This isn't about a Spanish language film black and white winning an Oscar will be nominated.

It's about a big company like Netflix coming in and doing something that is a is different and different for Manchester by the sea with Amazon this is

Slightly different this is an oven level so that is a discussion as to take place at some point how much impact do you think that Romans prominence this year could potentially have on the success of foreign language cinema, which is struggled in markets such as the US and UK recent years but each other and there's been quite a bit of conversation the moment how subtitled foreign language television shows are travelling without any problem and if the demographic of watching those shows is quite young then you're creating a scenario where those young consumers with that this letter called now of these stories.

Don't have a problem with subtitling and I think that creates a foundation of acceptance which will cross over into cinema and I think that the success of Roma will.

Definitely raise, I think the profile of foreign films and hopefully create deeper and wider interests particularly younger demographic.

I think that's where the challenges are things always change windows to one thing we've learnt certainly I've had it for 2 years is the change change change is always changing every year.

There's something something you desire still coming round the corner whether it's you know when I first started on in the early 80s Orchestra VHS and how and beta and who is going to win VHS 1 on my god.

It's going to sweep the country and nobody's going to go to cinema anymore, but didn't happen people in the cinema and then of course there was satellite Skies coming in Sky is going to believe movie channels with 100 movie channels who's gonna go and watch films as 100 movie to watch every night and didn't happen and then DVDs Cayman DVDs is lovely little things you can take them anyway.

You can show them anywhere as it and it goes on and now we have Amazon and Netflix and it's all going to be terrible on Lulu and rugen we watching.

Mike box sets for the rest of our lives novice Theatre cinema, will it make it maybe this? Is it maybe this is the Armageddon that we've all been talking about annoyed, but I doubt it.

So we know things will not necessarily remain the same and things will change so we are very optimistic and things always come round to Great stories and we always fighting for those great voices and the choir voices in the voices and no one hears however.

There is no ringer back in my head this idea of how now it's about the economic necessity to sustain Cinemas under sustained exhibition and to sustain against the great courses out there which is singer property development sales and do you know how do you afford to have your cinema? And how can you afford keep that going and you know we want to help support?

The idea of independence of true independence we want to support the idea that the true independence can still the same themselves with the outside of the hits and no Downside of the missus because we can't make a lot of Mrs to make a few years, so the worry is that those Mrs the hunger Steve McQueen made all the Terence Davies films always my case you know I'm going way back to Derek jarman's and the Ken loach's and you know they don't they don't walk straight into film festivals and takeaway Awards how to make a lot of movies we were they got there.

Yeah.

We need to make the plots with a few meat that we sounded powers got another two Oscar nominations, but she's stuck restarting Windows Jarman and Aunt Sally Potter and So It Goes we need to make the plots so we need to have an industry that can sustain that and I'm not just a talking about BFI I'm talking about her and independent Industries so that's the fear.

That's the worry that's also for today.

My thanks to Daniel about sects Steven Willy Elizabeth cross and in my colleagues feeling trolls and Tom and of course.

Thank you for joining us at Lehman will return with the regular Media podcast next week and will be back in a few weeks time will my colleagues and broadcast magazine take over to discuss them and the biggest trends in the Global TV market to get that episode make sure you subscribe for an apple podcast Google podcasts and a whole load podcast apps.

Just social media business podcast and hit subscribe and please head over to screen daily.com daily news reviews and features coverage of the International Film are Matthew LE5 pronounce potential by definition is the possibility of achieving more in the fast-paced world of digital advertising Oracle data cloud has built its Legacy on finding the signal through the noise.

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