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Read this: Spotify means business: how buying Gimlet changes podcasting

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Spotify means business: how buying Gimle…

Hello and welcome to the media podcast I'm Olly Murs on today's show Spotify enjoy a 230 million dollar gimlet digital journalism faces its own publishing crisis Instagram scrabbles to act on sensitive content + y Sky News turn the cameras on their own team and where they will young could take down the Grand Tour and in the media quiz we play Love and Hate you're going to her.

I mean you're gonna love it.

It's all to come on today's Media podcast and yawning yesterday making her Media podcast debut.

It's the founder of podcast production company broccoli content Rene Richardson Hello welcome.

Thanks now when we met you were working for panna play.

Yes before that you worked at a cost that you have your own podcast production company with all that experience.

What is the gap that you're trying to fill an eyesore where?

I know everyone's skeletons the Buried and ivory to just learnt from what everyone else wasn't doing and just figured that the podcast in world needs to be a bit more inclusive that's not just raised.

It's just different experiences.

Everyone shouldn't need to work at the BBC to working audio.

What do you mean by that cause blood across all media platforms? You'd almost think podcasting is the one that shouldn't theoretically need any mergetool cuz theoretically the barrier to entry is so like it is only a certain type of podcast set a type of person.

He's allowed to platform.

So you can make your podcast doesn't mean anyone going to listen to it, but there's podcast companies like pineapple.

Would it make continental more but now give me the wrong with integral that lots of different products companies who make podcast they choose the same kind of Talent they literally look to the BBC and they make contact with them.

There's loads of people who the BBC haven't even touched who are available to make shows so that's kind of

I come in cos I never worked at the BBC and you will start an email group called sounds in colour.

What's that about? I seem to be the people of colour representative for the UK audio community, so everyone's looking for recommendations and I've got jobs everyone comes to me and I actually don't know every person of Colour in England weirdly, so I thought let me tweet where the people thought I should start a group and yeah everyone said yes, I did so it's not my group is just something I literally did the entry and Google but it's just a place where people of colour can join together share jobs J opportunities and then people can also email them jobs and opportunities and if you're listening and you think you should join that group.

How do you do that sounds in colour at ok and making a match welcome return this week, it is the deputy editor of Alex Hudson

Alexander City other night you ranting about an egg Instagram I don't understand why I don't understand people want on Instagram and don't like eggs.

Ok, briefly I realise I should have started in the entire world that came up with the idea of I know Kylie Jenner has the most popular picture on Instagram so I want to beat it and I want to do it in the most ridiculous way possible, so I will upload a stock image of an egg and then put it towards the internet and say let's make this the most popular thing ever on Instagram it worked and for whatever reason.

I'm the only thing that he went all the way to the Super Bowl ad break the thing that's annoying with the ads exact the moment is that there are no one has any idea quite exactly how it works and I can't repeat it, but there's like a good story.

What did upset you so much because all of the above the amount of time do people spend on these seriously is beautiful bits of journalism and still it is pointless egg that gets.

That's now believe we were 10 million dollars and so the brand Hulu Voldemort have a drink Super Bowl about mental health this egg is now worth a believed 10 million dollar just because a number follows it has Bill double the amount of ads and column into a written about this egg, and it's not what people should care about and I appreciate that makes it so precious and pretentious and microcosm Media is here, but it's easy and it's stupid and jealous and has to be better than that.

Ok, and then I was Falling Into the Trap by opening hours show all about me.

Did you talk about the egg? Well? Let's start with the I think what is that? She unquestionably the big story the week and it is a podcasting story so I'm glad you're here now.

Which is Spotify have been shopping.

What have they got which is original content company started by Alex blumberg and Matt Lieber am I paid 230 million dollars 4SY gimlet over paid for it because they're big thing is I pee so it's testing podcast and selling the format TV sets quite a secret recipe blog post by Daniel EK

Clear that their intention was to take over the audio world.

We want to be the one place where you come for all your audio.

It doesn't that our interest in developing ideas for telly.

This is just about getting podcast to bring people Spotify don't think I really do I think actually what's the weather at the internet the moment is everybody wants to overtake everything so tiktok wants to take out Instagram Instagram wants to come at a Snapchat Snapchat was to come after YouTube YouTube episode if I and so on and so on and so on and Spotify tried and failed with video and if you look at the size of those Sharon van etten music at the moment and if you look at a new James Blake album they're starting to experiment with video formats in audio and they consider gap in the market.

They could apple is currently collecting the podcast format and they're not really focusing on whatever and I was running around same as issues growing industry and Spotify want to take over the world like I've had off the record briefings from Spotify people very close to Spotify about the sort of stuff that planning and I can't talk about in specific, but it's not just its billing as a publishing platform.

Not just a hosting platform and that's why YouTube going that's why Facebook is this Patrol

Void that's if you look at Apple workday with music and apple with TV it's it's a two forks of the digital industry as I do you become a publishing platform.

So you just Host the People's content as Spotify choosing to produce that is difficult is knickers the Apple proposition doesn't really exist yet.

We're all guessing as to what it might be in detail but something what does is Netflix it seems to me about the most easy analogy to make isn't it do Spotify want to be Netflix for audio and if so does that mean exclusivity around gimlet content and if so isn't that gonna piss all the listeners off.

I mean everyone wants to be the Netflix for audio everyone that's the thing everyone says Spotify actually made of podcast last year for a Spotify exclusively, which was dabbling with a visual element and they have a thing called spotlight.

Which is a play light and playlist it didn't come out here, but it did come out in America so he was just an audio podcast they just want to be the place that you they just want to have every you're all of your experiences in one place and you know good for them for trying but

I've got a Spotify premium account and I listen to on an Apple phone.

So either way as well winning so that's not they don't really care.

They kind of still have control over these platforms like Facebook found out the other week and it's all data.

Is it they just want us to have all of our user habits in one place but Netflix haven't done that.

I have Netflix I have Amazon Prime if I hadn't even if I was in America I would have Healey as well.

So it's like they've not got everything Netflix and Amazon Prime with fighting over content like it leaves Netflix to go to Amazon Prime all that stuff so you will never have the one place, but it is good that Spotify are investing in content a place for you to kind of have a one stop shop in a way One Stop Shop if it doesn't have everything I mean that's the thing isn't it will maybe it does make it has.

Phone backdate all their what Hunt live like 500000 but anyone starting a podcast now can have their podcast on Spotify on a open that last time a consumer.

It will be irritating if some of the shows that I want to listen to exclusive to Audible some of the more exclusive to the BBC some of their exclusive to Spotify and I've got five different reasonable comparison apart from the fact that podcasting started on the purest of things.

It's not ISS feeding get it anywhere you want at the laundry television channel.

I heard that is correct if that was true if you look at the BBC Sounds app and that there's a lot of arguments for and against that but one thing it is doing it so powerful as you don't need to go to Apple Park if you don't need to go to Spotify coming to the BBC Radio 4 Radio 4 and all of these podcast news new brilliant exciting or do it from that though.

Working on all in one place stay the BBC stay with the BBC retention time on BBC producing content I mean the thing about this is if you are an independent podcast a Renault and what why won't be putting his hypothetically you are an accent on caster and your stuff goes onto Spotify that you said cos it's open that she anyone can now and then Spotify start bringing premium new content hosted by footballers the celebrities to get the Punters in and whatever your stuff does that deserve a slice of the premium subscription that listeners are paying to be on the Spotify service because the fact that they can access your show in the same place might be part of the reason they carry on being there and you're not going to see any of it by me so basically signing up shows and giving you money.

They are doing that so if I was bringing in enough audience to Spotify they would do that, so I would get a slice of the pie, but what if you weren't that if you're saying if you've been like 200 people there so much you're bringing 100000 people.

Up really money yet again.

That's really but no the volume of audience can't be deposited so same as this is a Stewart Lee I just dealing with I do actually but the idea that 10000 people really care about something is way more important than 100000 people can have listening to a not really caring they think that's the new ones that you risk losing with this them over but listen to the better.

It is waiting are we going to talk about this subject in a minute and that's the model that slowly falling away.

It's how much people listen to something how much people care about something.

How much will remember something that there aren't any metrics at the moment with Spotify risks losing against any legs blog post said they're going to spend many more hundreds of millions of dollars on this.

I think she is it the right play podcasting.

I just I personally think it's exciting because I just started podcasting.

Cos I like it, but I also do like money and I'm not going to lie.

I have bills to pay and people who?

Used as for the love, they obviously making money somewhere else in good for you, but I only make my money podcasting so I like when a big brands.

Are they going to spend loads of money in it because it means I might be able to get a part of it and they're not going to buy me clearly but I could pick content to than their spending money on container spending money on signing shows like I said these are all facts.

So it means that if you have a good idea that you might be able to get your soulmate and before you only had to go to what pitch to BBC may be audible.

It is good to have another player.

That's a good thing.

I suppose it's good as well.

Alexa get advertisers used to the idea that they can advertise on podcasts like the advertising radio TV I think that's already happening so I think maybe a year ago.

Maybe 80 months ago that wasn't the case.

I think whatever happened last year with the Whitby cereal with Ruby the media podcast with Rab the but it would have your know how many podcast you want the moment to too many to mention is very kind of you to suggest this to the point of consciousness with the commercial execs and they're taking notice because they know that the audience has to podcast of the most loyal.

They know that they actually listen.

I don't just sit there.

No you click through some news stories.

You have to listen to a podcast and commercial organisations want to be part of the ones that are most exciting the ones that get people talking doesn't matter at the million people listen to it.

It's those conversations happening and that's movie of the priority list for commercial companies ok some of that will come into play with our next story as well and that's that it's been a pretty terrible week for online journalism in the UK with the closure of the digital brand for women the pool and also confirmation now of job losses at BuzzFeed in London which we talk about the last episode being on the horizon Alex what happened with the pool the full started with Lauren Laverne co-founder Sam Baker and they will you wanted to offer a platform to women's lifestyle journalism which at the time really wasn't getting Focus at least in this of actual voices you getting the sort of fashion and beauty content because that was very lucrative commercially but will you weren't getting is real voices predictive ability beauty backgrounds particularly from BME backgrounds and they want to open up.

And it was successful for a time and they had some big names in times columnist.

There's a really exciting new voices and they were growing something and no matter who I talk to they will talk about how great it was and how much could contact me were produced by past tense.

I mean different business model.

I mean is it not still popular at this point until we went through this very recent problem with will we need not reading it it was popular but the problem is the with advertising revenue going through a slump at the moment and without it charging for content without it setting up a subscription model was paying it's a lot of money for a second particularly the high-profile contributors and it wasn't making ends meet I mean this is the problem with a lot of online digital journalism, isn't it right now.

You know that you eat to get a growth in audience you have to start paying for Premium content, but if you audience I'm prepared to pay for the premium content the advertising isn't there there is literally no money if you know it's a Pyramid Scheme worked at the pool and she was made redundant.

I think they started.

Making redundancies last summer and then it can I went down there, but yeah, if I see before all of the money stuff everyone was really supportive of the platform and the new rise of colour opportunities, but the audience in some ways do like to pay for content if it's visual.

They don't like paying for written content and there are some like smaller magazines like black ballade offering United scription you get the editorials and he's letting people are paying but it's really really minimal and so the poor just went too big Too Soon think the problem was it didn't bring enough people with it.

So it had a large leadership it had a strong leadership, but it the thing with BuzzFeed and I'm sure to put this in a minute.

Is that those badges with lol and when it people actually literally wore those badges and there was something about centerprise albeit hipster pride about big affiliated with BuzzFeed the pool had a huge opportunity for particularly female audiences minority audiences to be that's the flag-waving site that really took on those issues mini challenge and it all.

Why is threatened to a nearly got there nearly got there and never quite weeks that thing where they could be organising real life events and real life parties and provided as an activist base that would have really move that Brand on.

What's weirdos.

It seems to have been a shock for the staff who were working at the pool and for the freelance writers who were commissioned by them.

They don't seem to have been aware of the financial difficulties the company worrying that all they were £760,000 in debt.

They had their outstanding personal loan of 40 grand I borrow £250,000 against the company's assets and lost 1.8 million pounds in the previous financial year ABBA the editor Kate sybilla on Twitter is basically saying she doesn't know what the finances of the company where he wasn't included in those conversations.

They kept profit and loss away from the editorial team and it seems like no one was aware that they were writing for this sinking Ship and Mitre a bit stranded when we went weren't paid yesterday and about this because she's a writer who is wait like I think I'd over £7,000 and Laura

Standard yeah, and she was saying that you know last August all the directors resign by 12 someone should have noticed something basically because that's the thing with the BuzzFeed Wonderland these layoffs in there or the year did not pay any waiting still working to the last day.

It's they're doing it in really mean ways responsible.

What's the right thing to do when your companies going into administration because what's waiting for the readers.

There's not a notification at the moment if you go onto the polls Twitter page.

It's just the Last Story of a posted.

If you go onto the website is the last oribe posted that isn't it? I think it's different and in telling you around here when you think about the closure of Today newspaper that made of a national-level had this a real sense of nostalgic.

It's the last Edition and that will be the final thing that they have a produce never was aware of it, but now that we're in 2019 and we're seeing increasing with digital media the expanded so quickly starting to survey shrink at least at least of my view.

We don't know what the right.

X-rays of course you've got Facebook to play with little but you never fail fast mentality and that idea of moving break things which means you go in and you don't understand the human cost of this that Laura wrote the evening Standard that's £7,000 each email may not ever see and it's but it's people's jobs because Liners and journalism is a tough industry anyway, and now you just got twice as many freelancers looking to pitch in to articles and pitching to news organizations and so that it becomes even tougher Furbies young journalist who was clear with a pool is that there was a and affection from the audience certainly for specific articles anywhere in particular campaigns and whatever that people liked did they failed to translate that into brand loyalty that meant people were checking my homepage checking their email partly.

Yes, that's partly pregnant.

Isn't as a digital publisher.

You have to be pragmatic.

So you you have to produce pieces that set the world on fire live news agendas.

You have to do this pieces or else? What's the point being and media location you also have to put in the hard labour underneath that for the sort of stories that would do you 5000 views every day for the end of time.

The green explained as the analysis all of that sort of stuff that are the nuts and bolts of contemporary digital journalism and from what I can see if the pull it didn't do that well enough and it didn't drop your batteries.

Homebase does it go album digimedia said it 5 years ago all focused on Facebook first Google second Direct Trafic III animal on email newsletters.

I remember playing very proudly on Radio 4 this new model is news that is at the moment until someone way more intelligent than me figured it out.

It's great for brand loyalty and so if you're doing that alongside all the other activism that you doing all that sort of thing of if 100 everywhere Paul t-shirt proudly then that's how was model can work if their newsletters are just a nice bit of a formation close, then it doesn't drive your brand home to your target audience and therefore not to Commercial partners that pay a bill that you said the people wouldn't in this particular demographic Liverpool was aiming at pay to read online stories is that the endgame? What do you think there is a possibility of of getting that audience to pay ever.

I'm at the stage where I'm started started to pay for things and people are but it's just because Lenny letter was the same Lenny letter when is gone now as well and is the same kind of audience they were trying to get but what you were saying you BuzzFeed it all everything it.

Got people to unite got the traffic it you know made news people talk about people liked being associated it.

So there's clearly a bigger issue that I don't have no idea what it is.


It was what people used to call the bubble who it was and it isn't it over investment in some of these titles I mean BuzzFeed as we talked about the last episode of huge amounts of money being poured into it, but it couldn't justify in what it could make you could say the same about him that we were just discussing is that what it is.

It's that people were to create their spending money so in the old days people used to be more conservative when I was starting a business.

So you say you got investment.

You've kind of spend it.

You know you wouldn't spend the A1 Everything but are these businesses just going wild with the money? I think I'm going to humblebrag.

I was chatting to in history.

This last week cos I was arguing with him about the future having Media works and it's that the most difficult stories and that most time consuming the most expensive stories are the least easy to make money from so you're talking about human rights abuses you.

I don't want to sit around that you're talking about poverty Advertiser don't wanna be anywhere near it and that's the most important journalism that either jealous am absolutely certain that we knew that letter cover and cover properly, but there is no revenue Model S you're charging uses for that and so what you're saying is a BuzzFeed model of the and BuzzFeed news separating serious contact reminder content and I think what buses will find is that the less serious content is easier to monetize and that's the scary bit but digital media has to solve ok? Let's talk a bit more about digital media of a different sort social networking and Instagram has promised measures to limit vulnerable users exposure to images of self-harm discussing the way to the discussion around the 14-year-old Molly Russell suicide.

When I took us through the idea of these sensitivity screens, so you won't see it, but it's a double click checking your intentions and why you wouldn't just click through what supposed to stop you possibly looking at it in your feed it being algorithmically thrown at you is that it's partly that but it's it's Instagram be able to distance itself from responsibilities that whole thing about whether or not.

There's a digital publisher or not.

Are you a publisher of that image or are you just a person who's showing off and I think my view on that has changed.

I always used to think that Facebook and Israel is Alex Hudson about submit on the middle more than really adamantly finger wagging Lee talk someone down and said you're right.

You're saying you actually might have been wrong.

What is over yesterday for that wears the story of my I was making sure it was true if I knew I always used to associate the social media that was like paper or lakes of the photo photocopy Revolution wasn't caused by photocopy was caused by people.

It's not Instagram causing these images proliferated people goes in the midst of proliferate and the thing that I'm changing my mind is that increasingly I'm thinking that particularly 2018.

I think there is a responsibility of those publishers to hide.

I think how they do that is a incredibly difficult job and it might be just cos I'm getting old and ever and thinking of the children but it's almost publishers to at least show some restraint like a people to find stuff and censoring is the worst thing possibly do calypso it means those conversations don't happen, but the key if you fancy going to open up those conversations.

It's almost like if you look at those images same as Google do this for Samaritans if you're giving certain topics will say Eliza Samaritans number open that conversation don't just block it begin dialogue and open those cat comes at her house with understand that.

Because there has been a bit of a backlash against the initial responses from Facebook ideas of Instagram that they do the kind of thing Alex is talking about because people have said we'll just take self-harm images off completely you know if it's leading to teenagers suicide take them off completely but there is an argument for saying it's important to the bed because then there's like a lost you there a young kid was killed in the Bronx and it was there was #justiceforjunior and if you went into the discover page whoever liked the things you would see his murder which is one of the reasons.

I deleted Facebook because I don't want to see someone get murdered as I open an app.

Would it did it lead in a could it lead to conversations around youth violence.

Yes, but I've got the news for that and I don't need to see the meant.

I think they shouldn't have these things on there.

I think there's a tricky balance to because money reporting guidelines for the Samaritans rightly so around death by suicide and the risk of copycat.

Anna and how you report death and how to report murder in or around mental health and generally and it's vital that you ring up some out of the week.

We talk to Samaritans like most weeks about how to report certain issues, but just by not talking about them at the mental health stigma Mr grammar 12 is already huge because people don't feel like they can come and talk to adults.

It's just talk to their friends because they've they're repair then instantly Thomas with that brush while you have a mental health issue.

Ok, and then you excluded from other conversations.

It's part of a social networks duty to to remove the stigma around those conversations and once distinguished removed then removing as images part of that but removing it straight away intranet hide it out of mind doesn't solve the issue.

We don't need to see someone who slit their wrists or he's cutting themselves to see you to have in order for me to be triggered to have a minute hotel conversation you can have those you can there's other ways.

Can create those opportunities for the conversation you don't need the actual images.

I think the image is already full falah bin scam downloads anything showing recent self answer any scar.

That is not currently healed is already against Instagram guidelines.

I should already be removed and the motor whole different issue about Instagram reporting issues.

No, this is fine.

This is ok.

Let you know when you see her horrible hate crime happening.

It's not banning when you see something really minor and it is but the wider issue around blocking these internet ignore that conversation remove your duty as a publisher to cover these responsibly I think it must have the problem of solving are we all know that there are issues around on the internet you know in our real-life experience.

We all encountered issues around all kind of taboo subjects which the mainstream Media completely ignore being an internet Culture thing.

I should take this point by contributors and other yet mate.

Let me know whether that's illegal drug use or underage sex whenever the thing is on the internet things get said photos get shared ideas propagate which if the BBC as they did on the 10 news with this store.

14-year-old girl put a light on at aub the end of every internet company when it they will have to come as we must take action isn't it time that people started doing this I mean because it's like there's a disconnected.

Everyone's head between what they see online and and what they expect to everyone else in the media fix fix the issues that same as like the chapel ography heater problem across the internet trying to ban.

It is already spent.

It's horrible, but you just driving to people under Grundy choosing to get better proxies better DNS servers.

There are more hidden from mainstream conversations same with self-harm the more you hide that the more that driven underground the less you about the mainstream of Leicester gets fixed the other side of that reported to the self-harm charities following their reporting of this story as if they'd opened Pandora's box and all these people who were parents of children who been influenced in to self Hamza Instagram then called up the

Charity but actually I was listening to that story and thinking well.

Maybe that's the reason everyone's calling out because it obviously is an issue, but also you've had huw Edwards read out the action line on the 10 news for 3 nights running now saying if you've been affected by this issue.

Give us a call to be nothing to do with Instagram of tall.

That's about self-harm.

How do you thinking about was that shows 13 reasons? Why season 1 receipt document in the teenagers suicide and then there's loads of complaints and so season 2 was in about dealing with the issues a mental health issues.

They could barely.

They could try and get you.

I mean obviously like you said all these things are bad.

We still see them because they you can't is hard to band things but if they created content that maybe maybe we'll talk about it like the news is reading it out every day so more people like how I could call this number if Instagram has did something like that you can still get rid of the images, but you're also doing a mental health campaign targeted at younger people that would work all of these images.

Tomb of the fact that mental health because there was more information available on people have more in tune with their feelings that it's it's impact among people than ever before and someone has to step in and do something is not banning images that something should be ok.

We'll have some Ed news in brief out of this imagine the show I'm covering some of the biggest lies ever sold by the Americans well, you don't need to imagine it you can watch it BBC Studios production American History's biggest fibs hosted by Lucy Worsley is now on BBC Four and the very studios where we recorded this episode also provided offline services for that program runs ET's post production house has 15 offline and 2 online editing suite a bass-like grading Theatre a dubbing sweet and a voice-over Booth basically everything you could want as a creative being want to edit your next show go to run VT.

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Dogs needing you to breathe now and Renee and Alex are still with me and Will Young has threatened Amazon's Grand Tour show with an Ofcom complaint and legal action after the latest episode featured homophobic jokes Alexa have you been following this story this seems like bread butter at maturity date, the story and more than once and it comes down to the Grand Tour having a particular image.

Just as Top Gear did before it of being three white petro man talking in a way that the 1990s thought was perfectly ok and now in 2019.

It's less ok, and it will young challenging that to actually no actually would have an impact particularly on young people particularly on young man and the word specifically I mean it.

Didn't it? Didn't get much worse really and I don't mean to say this isn't offensive but it didn't get much worse than them saying the Wrangler Jeep is a cake.

Quote on quote let's put a pink roof on it.

Let's make some make some jokes of the kind that actually had the presenters been gay probably wouldn't have been problematic.

The point was people in sinuate.

Don't live in a certain time, but that's true.

They come with the Baxter it right.

You're not just seen Jeremy Clarkson isolation and I could just been invented yesterday.

Maybe people might have given the benefit of doubt if he wasn't Jeremy Clarkson but those words have an impact that you look at the biggest biggest kid gets his finger in the word game was being used to mean bad on that so Gail that sort of stuff you saw a rise in teenage suicide attempts from the young gay community like those a smaller size things seem to us from the outside for teenagers grow up that is a huge problem and it has a huge impact because it makes being homophobic even if it's the sort of light fluffy hilarious homophobic can a possible for Society and on the actual mechanics of whether or not Ofcom can intervene on a show that Amazon a Broadcasting

And I'm Googling as we speak because I feel like we should never said out so the actual thing is the Netflix fools of the jurisdiction of Holland not the UK even though it's getting in the UK and it has to abide by the terms of the European union's audiovisual media services directive which is a standard for on-demand services potentially harm to children Amazon is even different again so with prime it does abide by the avms directive that's the audio-visual media thing but that to Amazon is enforceable by Ofcom in the UK so sort of what sort of not there is a difference in the sense I suppose but this show isn't being broadcast in that sense of the word liver to people who would possibly watch it you have to elect to watch it.

You know the sense of humour ages and he's watching Amazon have taken money you know from young and old people and they know what homophobia is Anna know what homophobic crimes in hate crimes are just put a stop to someone could edited that.

Is 2019 was will Young's point where it wasn't just that it could have been edited out.

It wasn't like most jokes in those programs.

It wasn't an adult joke was it was often produces contrivance to do a whole storyline about this car being a complete with music visual jokes and everything else.

We need to be smarter.

It's twice as 2019.

It's not 1995 to 1989 which is when Sky News launched 30 years ago.

What did they do to celebrate this week? They celebrate with all sorts of different things but mainly around a big old am I asking what Adam Boulton Paul everyone has a cake they blown Sky News Norwich unusual which was this thing around 4, I think what was it 9 hours or 10 hours in stone yet? That was just the back room at of behind-the-scenes footage of everything.

They did that day and I think people have reviewed it and said it was actually really successful that giving up giving a window into how hard working in his room.

Is they run on a little bit of a delay to avoid will that work in Esher

More my working life.

There's a lot of swearing happening in this room.

I can't can't live a lot of things you said in a news release broadcast that was my biggest concern so obviously haven't watched or 10 hours is the amount of stuff that we second we say the Exmoor can we said it xz-10 goldfish if that would cost isn't you know 20g and so the instant judgement was a 32nd allowed to know which bits to cut and anything even nearly libellous.

I think it's an incredibly daring things to do.

I don't know that anyone outside the media bubble card.

Did it matter that people outside the media bubble didn't care.

I mean people inside the media bubble noticed it thought it was a cool idea at does underline Sky News his credentials as innovative news broadcasters doesn't which is kind of been there trump, I think it is just wasn't it? Just lack of anything like the real people take care and good for them when we guardian tried it and no because you get instant metrics and how many people in Reading that content regarding try.

Open Reddit big snow are we will have which will be willing to read on you search the actual news stories and stuff that we spent hours and hours in and that's an increasingly difficult task people that want to see how the sausage is made at the same time as witch on a make people just view the sausages in the end of it made professionally produced BBC documentary about the Guardians news report example and then use meeting actually had it is in cut down.

So you saw Polly toynbee swearing and I'm not going to watch the whole thing live.

Would you cope well with the cameras during your day today behind-the-scenes work process.

I would not like that at all.

We try that with the BBC and we found that no one.

Can I know what what what? Where was this Today programme and we tried a bit of Question Time which is most successful, but no one cares.

What did you try to film the behind-the-scenes thing about you know?

Are the presenters get ready all that sort of stuff question time this is after I left it became successful, because it was Dimbleby at sliding down part of a set that went viral and the audience have more pressing was there a time and we never gotten that user engagement.

We never got audience for those things ok? Let's talk about the number of people cancelling my TV licence and the burden of let me over 75's watch telly for free when I do you think over 75 should get a free TV licence and if so who should pay for it because the government has put the put the cost on to the BBC and BBC forever even though that means a shrinking budget for program licence and I think that will continue and certain point they offered it really can't take it back.

Because people like I have a nice nt5.

I'll get the three tv discount offer for black and white sets as well as they still do but I'm still exist but now it's not relevant.

They used to just having a telly in there they say but if you watch iPlayer you have to pay I mean why not evolved that licence for him.

Why not say look it's not our fault the government made us pay for the over 75.

Sorry we can't give it to you.

Did kiss you opening a Pandora's box of the regressive taxation policy around charging everybody regardless of means exactly the same thing and that's the problem that over 75's Etihad the minted absolutely payforit people who are younger who don't have the means shouldn't be able to pay for it and it should be part of a main taxation think it's entirely ring-fencing still maintains BBC impartiality.

It's the weird aggressive form of taxation that doesn't take into account a person's means and that's the biggest wrong with licence fees licence fee should always exist and is vital for the BBC particularly news format particularly in on popular formats to exist and to be funded by the taxpayer this isn't just currently the correct way of doing it but giving free TV licences.

75 doesn't take into account their means there's plenty of rich pensioners it doesn't but I think blanket offering free tv.

Licence over 75's when they are the richest cohort the baby boomers have way more money, but the 20-somethings entirely ignores the current financial state of which generation and generation of degeneration and the other people watch the TV the most so it doesn't make any sense to me to stop it stop it now ok, so right so you're saying stop giving me over 75 to the free tv licence rest but you disagree with Renee the overtime left to its own devices TV licence with literally fade out because people volunteer to stop paying for a think I think you're writing a fact that there is a risk that that might happen.

I think we have to do everything in our power to make sure it doesn't I think there are things at the BBC does that other broadcasters would not do there are things that the publishers cannot do and I think BBC's trying bloody hard to get letter latest in the bring out new voices and the thing that it's hit with its budgets.

Is that it?

Focusing back on really traditional formats and not experiment his match.

They should the BBC innovative ceefax all these different things and now Netflix doing the stuff for Amazon stainless definitely look at the difference in production values between a BBC original Netflix original it just shows you exactly that limitations of the BBC's budgets are having on its contents compared to Netflix before you think about the way that the iPlayer app listen exist without iPlayer agree so with the ceefax reference that I joined nothing is wrong.

I'm going to do it launched this low low res information service that people have to click through on buttons nobody thinks that as a commercial viability because it doesn't have a commercial Viber you know whatever did it but the fact the BBC can do that even if it had failed horrible no one ever used it is vital that the BBC has the money and the freedom to do that sort of weird stuff Moreno the bottom line is at the moment.

They are soldered reverse and then.

You have cut budgets if you round the BBC what would you cut even Radio 4 or something specific? Just radio audio or just all the nations and regions just before I was running it.

I'm not criticizing.

It's just I mean I'm not sure actually by the way that the savings of cutting all of radio at the BBC would really save that match compared to cutting just one TV channel.

I mean radio to get rid of the people watch BBC4 I think people do watch BBC Four but it's not very happy.

That is BBC4 is the one that does seem like the one that is serving the super safety if you want to create an impact if you want to maintain Lucy funny you cut Radio 3 you threatened that and then people people go crazy for it and it doesn't cost anything really radiator is the most expensive of the radio.

Station still not a big budget and it does not contain the audience and it hits a certain audience that the BBC cannot anger because they have the loudest voices in Westminster and in the end of London bubble, and that's why I like the moving of BBC Three online is a terabyte is it should have been fix a long time ago and that should have been the breeding ground for all manner of new content.

Just get rid of BBC to get rid of BBC Two Cities where they do the high-end dramas and comedies.

I think the reliability test out the that's the most interesting channel it used to be the place where the test of things that now BBC Three as a place of a test things out and will certainly fix woodcut Radio 3. / your site briefings were on radiators to exist the latest Rachel they are showing a decline in listenership.

Actually is none the less relatively good reading for the radio industry.

Greg James his first quarter in his new Breakfast Show Radio 1 shows a growth in reach out and you're surprised by that I mean he's more popular grooming basically any price is more popular, but I would also like to see the average ages of those listeners and the listeners that he's gained.

I would be incredibly surprised if he has lowered the average age of the Radio 1 audience and I think that's my main issue.

Would that higher is that it's a very safe options we talked about before and he's not zeitgeisty is a lovely human, but he's not going to challenge the status Quo what the BBC cliches to most people.

How much is Sizewell that we won't know the figures on the big new Breakfast Show is Chris Evans Zoe Ball Lauren Laverne we won't know about those until next quarter.

It is worth remarking I think that.

Radio still hasn't cut through that got this investment from Rupert Murdoch's company buying the wireless group they've got Matthew Wright they've got Eamonn Holmes they put loads of Talent on air it still listen to it and it's not like people don't like speech.

I mean Radio 4 gone down but I'll be she's gone up.

So why can't talk radio getting audience because of LBC if you look at the amount of quality guest LBC a getting out if you look at the state of these people that are getting LBC has become the sale of commercial rivals Radio 4 and Eddie Mair who is one of the brilliant broadcast of his generation is now taking that station by Storm and there's a relatively small gap in the market and they the need to push hard at market heavily and really sit either go big or go home or else there going to be continually wash out by the BBC and by the big existing players and also it seems that the results are in on magic going 100% Christmas certainly didn't harm them have any difficult to tell with the quarterly result because obviously to send this just a bit of it, but didn't see a decline in listen is in fact the reverso.

How do you think we'll be seeing more station?

Going 100% Christmas disassembly magic for the home and also we've seen more controlled oceans in commercial radio this week Alex power acquiring cellar door and the Lincs FM group it basically is that a tiny minority of radio stations outside the control of the big groups to 0.4% on little bit but then it's working isn't it is keeping the radio stations alive.

It's one of those things that we talk about you know is it the big conglomerates is Facebook's on Google to a to blame for this was it just become is going to take over that's what podcast is meant to bring and webcasting is this new thing.

That's meant to be independent for radio it removes that innovation at remove the other pirate radio cliche in this massive nostalgia.

We have about what radio really wasn't the Innovations that happened in the 1780s.

It's now.

Just Greg James and people who look and sound like Greg James

People who play the same music as Greg James across all every commercial channel is interesting as well to see the decline in Manchester of key 103.

It's only one can watch it, but now they're called Hits radio 19 years appeared not to be marking out on the radar Diaries and that's going to be a warning sign for Barras h.

I n roll out these big national brands putting a nice vanilla wash over all of the content to make sure it's popular and it doesn't offend everybody welcome to put a big nice vanilla wash over the end of the show in his time.

You'll be thrilled to know from Media quiz before we start an apology for broadcasting some fake news in our last Media quiz we told you that David tennants new podcast was being produced by The Economist in one of the answers in our last Edition and it isn't it's been made by something else and by the way is currently number one in the Apple podcast charts.

Oh well done to them by the way number 2 is the Intelligence which is the show has been made by the explicit least it was a news where the fuck up right onto this episodes quiz and this week we have found.

Free stories about things that medial and loves to hate all you have to do is identify which I'm talking about the winner gets a holiday for two in the sunlit Uplands the loser is off to a special place in hell.

You're busy with your name when you know the answer so we know you will say and Alex you will say Alex right, let's go question of the one.

What's the name of the new music request show on BBC Four which got a critical kicking after the first episode aired jukebox.

Live is the whole title but I'll give you the point hosted by Phill Jupitus and Clare Grogan and featuring tracks from the BBC's live music archive why do people not like with say I don't understand is why you when you can just open your app for Spotify or wherever else people listen to music to produce the worst part of Jupiter's you're a bit pissed is people talking.

Songs about school the playlist juggernaut lifestyle brand is to expand its output with a podcast partnership with Renee I've started so I'll finish with delta Airlines and the documentary series with Netflix yes Renee brand often ridiculed for its endorsement of expensive ephemera are releasing a series of 30 minute episodes this autumn featuring Gwen it herself talking to experts about wellness.

Will you be watching that there's no songs in that podcast she had oprah's the first guest, so it's clearly going to be good people on the show so yeah, I like to learn beautiful to learn about the deposit.

They like this is obviously sort of medically suspect.

And you know they're a lot of wellness trends are asked me to spend loads of money that I don't have and yet.

I mean this is partly a kind of women's media thing.

It's a bit like the Kardashians I'm not sure I understand why women get escapism in some of these losses but people like it anyway.

Going to see if everyone is doing it now.

I'm obsessed with Korean beauty and goop has a section and you know we just like to just try and pretend I can look younger than be healthier and that's what is for escapism.

It's giving a bigger platform to some with already a huge platform and United is brilliant business from Netflix he's really clever because people will sign up and I will watch this thing but I think the idea that we going to expand the knowledge of wellness on mindfulness and mental health because of Gwyneth Paltrow on things it would have parties involved in is a stretch and onto question number three it's not the tie break but you could prevent yourself from being humiliated Alex which long-running Breakfast Show could be looking for a new presenter after its long-standing host suggest he wouldn't be there.

longer yes, I like my former colleague John Humphrys yes, he has told the Daily Mail will people be the assumed he would be leaving the political programme by the end of the year after 32 years in part to write his autobiography a lot of people had it with you mentioned that this quiz was all about people love to hate a lot of people come on this show and slide off John Humphrys but it's difficult I stay over 32 years isn't it people will miss him that man is an incredible journalist and I think that the biggest Gilly has is that you can pinpoint the question that the audience wants answering and that is a skill that is a lot more difficult than it sounds and he's been up at 3:30 in the morning for what year 30 years alright, so that's a testament to him and the fact that he still politicians are still scared and terrified of this man and anyone comes on there's always that sort of sensitive when when I used to be broke assistant that you take the moon and you could see them physically slightly to the shaking a little bit about the fatter going to face this man and that's just the

Howard about that man has of the questions I asked and he gets a lot of criticism for the amount of the rambunctious Tony uses but that's part of his job related your hatred of all radio extend to are boycotting John Humphrys as well.


Ok at least your consistent well congratulations.

You've won the quiz and that is it thrush or forward today my thanks.

Richard Nixon if you're into what we're doing then.

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