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Who cares what the papers say?…

BBC sounds music Radio podcasts and this is the media show from BBC Radio 4 who cares what the papers say I was because the Herald the Scottish broadsheet one of the world's longest running newspapers has terminated its daily leader column the editor believes that the modern reader can make up their own minds on most issues and don't need to be told what to think should either papers follow suit or is it quite handy to have your newspaper so that each morning on a single page exactly what it's prejudices and indeed enlightened views are will be there shortly.

Let me introduce you to our guests Anna bassi is the editor-in-chief of the week junior which is one of the fastest-growing magazines in the country and your target audience is 8 to 14 year olds that in the hope that your answer is going to help the rest of us.

Let me ask you.

How are you explaining latest brexit developments.

I usually wear their which is Jeremy Vine on the show behave explaining the latest relevant in this week's edition.

I was talking to her about the seller.

It's actually relatively straightforward fast and have been telling the same story for quite a long time so sorry for adults stereo in a very long story is Henry VI played every week.

I mean we are readers are 814 years old so we have to assume that every week.

We have readers who've never read about brexit before so we always had to go back to the beginning and explain what the EU is explain what happened in 2016.

Then we go on to explain what the government have been doing for the last couple of years about the vote on the 15th of January and end up getting are the Boats that happened yesterday and what might happen next so I was like a sensible approach for an adult publications that alone junior account.

Thank you very much.

Good to see you soon as I did hear chief leader writer of The Observer and dipti opinion and is it at the Guardian at so now you must have written a commissioned dozens of leaders and out columns about brexit in any to think about it, so that the Observer we're quite well known for editorial position on brexit.

So we taking a really strong view.

The first paper 2 come out in favour of a referendum on May's deal and I think leaders do really helped to shape the Debate you know people care about what newspapers think it was significant when the Observer came out.

It's O'Briain favour of a referendum we saw other papers follow suit so you saw the ft.

The Economist you know they're seen as is being abusive the business community so I think people do really take note pay heed to what newspapers and particularly when they sort of sticking their neck out and saying something quite punchy and strong which we've been doing on brexit lead to respiratory causes of similar things that we're gonna get internet in a big rates on his very very good to see you at cafe.

Rushden is here the daily mails media and technology editor.

I'm catching what's the stories you picture to try and cut through the brexit coverage.

Is it harder to get your stories towards the fact that paper was it actually easier because you said this is so bored.

Appetite for non brexit stories to bring some light and shade to the paper but actually it's pretty easy at the moment because our huge things going on in the bachelor.

Hover not least all that online harms stuff which is coming out next week this famous people with triggered also talked about we got excited right also here is Hattie Brett the editor of the weekly women's magazines have to thank you watch this your first time limit excited to be what do you know about you all about your reader to think about them not least because we've just done a big piece of research called the game changers 2.0.

Which was the vans up with his title game changers who's exporting metaphor to get in touch with the the modern woman? I can't take credit for that one.

I have to say 4 years ago.

They did a piece of research called game changers and when I read it when I first started it gratsia last summer it struck me that the findings from it without the little bit out of date women and it was very optimistic.

They were very entrepreneurial and I felt a lot has changed in the last 4 years politically economically socially so I wanted to kind of go.

Back to those women and find out how they're feeling about the state of the world today confused as we were on brexit.

I guess I think they're kind of key take away from this is that women are redefining what success looks like for them today and that actually is success is very much now about personal happiness and fulfilment and what I thought was interesting is that on the one hand or women talked about feeling quite lost that sense that they are lacking a kind of Life sat nav now that those traditional markers of progress like getting on the housing market with housing Adam will having a baby have been slightly delayed on the other hand they're feeling very empowered to take ownership of their own happiness and their own direction in life whether that's by standing up for something that they believe in him petitioning on it all by investing in the things that they know we're going to make them happy some practice what you probably should I do some of that feeling you told about publication for me.

Sam front cover a red enjoyed your latest edition front covers got a picture of Catherine Duchess of Cambridge in probably in properly at called Katie Jennings not right.

I took a new professional packed with Megan there's a quote from a source in noza.

Fallout is in no one's interest got a bit on MC enemy that I noticed at the bottom left.

You've got four brand names on therefore if I'm not going to do their work for the bits for clothing brands.

Did they pay to be there absolutely not supposed to be there? I need to get for massive names onto your distinguished publication.

That's quite pretty.

Isn't it? How do you choose which brands go there the reason why that she started doing that is because I wanted to really get across to the reader that we do the hard work for them and we know our woman is still shopping even in this kind of economic landscape where you might expect her not to be she's still buying things and she still sees that as a reward and she still coming to gratsia for that personal recommendation Andrew true to give into I had to choose mangoes on doing it.

Mancosa H&M in Arquette how do you say it's a big deal for those guys get really sell them when they are on the front and me and being really honest with you.

I looked through the magazine and what are fashion team have picked from the stores and I decide what I think our readers are going to want to buy food you can save the world with brands to pay for that quadrant there that bottom left with a video from page is up for sale.

I can't imagine that we would do that because our readers trust us to be independent from her season 3 bullseye you're pretty around 130 copies of week which is roughly half of what it was 10 years ago.

What does gravity offer that I couldn't get from Daily Mail online market at the moment.

Isn't it? And we have to be honest about that but at Bala we believe in print journalism.

Yeah, that's the publisher who published soon.

We believe in print journalism and we're investing in print journalism and we publish for profit and we're really proud of our latest sprint performance which is up.



In terms of ABC It's easy to scroll through targeted audience and we make sure that we know I will do and say we know a woman really well and therefore we can give her the mix that I think she demands and needs and wants more than ever before we were talking earlier about this kind of information overload that we're in at the moment.

Where everyone's living 24/7 expected to have an opinion on everything from brexit to the Duchess of Cambridge and I think for me the premise of 10 hot stories which is the opening section of gratsia has never been more relevant that sense of will Curate the week for you in a way that relates to you and information pack that you said that to advertisers this how much you charge for a vertical to hear you list what you try to advertorials as up to £36,000 for a double page advertorial never gotten to do exactly what an advertorial means but is this the kind of evidence that kind of advertising which is clearly on the

Hate being editorial a necessary evil for publications such a tough sector.

I believe this distinction between advertising editorial advertising and what's an advertorial you know possibly at the Observer we like to keep our editorial line and our opinion pages very separate from our reporting so our news coverage lives and dies by the extent to which it's true or opinions living died to the extent to which they capture the mood right.

I'm asking you about advertorials and gratsia.

If you were running gratsia if if if in 10 years time happy things.

I've done my job agretti are going to hand over you applied for the job.

Do you feel morally compromised by advertorials? I personally don't regard advertorials is something.

I enjoy reading I think they have to be.

Very very clearly signposted at such and where I have a problem with it as a reader if I'm reading a magazine or newspaper say it's where it's very subtly marked up and so it's a bit and it looks like a column and it looks like a piece and you can't tell that somebody is paid to have it that I think I think papers and magazines have to be very very careful.

I agree with that completely because we rely on our readers trusting us and trusting the content that we give them so we have to be very transparent and very clear about labelling.

What is an advertorial saying that I think if we are working with a brand who want to get their messaging across and we're helping them do it in a way that adds value to our readers lives then that reader as long as it's very transparent about it being labelled.

It helps them.

Let me bring an anniversary as the editor-in-chief of the week Junior and Anna I mentioned had your magazines one of the fastest growing in the UK is now to have 60000 is a week, but I'm like that's you only see your crash.

I know that's a very big jewellery or the other two would you say what I say gratsia not enough karate anyway.

I might go out nearly all your copies of subscription crisis magazine adult kids choosing a newsagents that fit that would be fair but that doesn't mean that the kids don't enjoy reading it because obviously they were coming back if they didn't say we did yeah.

Obviously I mean with rate 14 year old children and we don't have a huge presence on the new stand actually in that was very deliberate because I don't know how familiar with it with a new stand for you know for children's magazines.

It's not actually wires plastic and colour new toys jumping at Catherine's smoking.

Have a cuppa mounts and we're all about the content and so we actually if you do find us on the new somewhere out with the Week magazine and the other current affairs magazines magazines, but yeah by and large we our subscriber base and that works really really well for us.

Why wouldn't you going for those of those free toys whenever you get with them freebies if if your parents listen to this thinking you know they can get their kids reading and if it comes with frozen toy whatever other m brands are available.

Why won't you get involved in that work? Think I started? I think a lot of parents have really had enough of all the plastic on the front of magazines anyway.

I mean huge backlash at the moment.

So obviously with all the concerned about the environment plastic pollution and so on the wonder how much of it.

Just ends up in the bin with a lot of it doesn't up in the bin and I think I've worked in just magazines for a really long time so I've worked on a lot of those magazines 9 know that it hurts really demoralising as a journalist to be producing something that actually you know what probably be discarded in favour of the piece of newspapers.

So, what do they call them doing it because it's really good content it really high quality journalism.

It's beautifully written.

We have a decent team.

We don't spend all my money on plastic so we can afford to spend money on creating a good magazine front page of this station shell Mouldings get set to celebrate World Book Day it is 20% of consciously catalyzing on parental angst about screen time not exist perfectly well side-by-side.

We have a whole spread in every issue of the magazine dedicated to all things that are on screen YouTube games and so on a dating Illinois 60090 parents were saying they got to get a kid's into the Habit of Reading and magazines and nice accessible way of loving words not being addicted to something wrong with that.

I think I'm sure their parents.

He would love that.

It'll just be reading and not on screen all the time.

I think the reality is that kids are on screen that I don't know how much they Reading

Wants to read this is a really good reading experience and have you got much of a digital presents the week junior no we don't actually not all that was that was a deliberate decision to begin with I think where you are supposed to be felt that we wanted to be doing something imprints Dennis fireworks, you know who owns the week in the week junior as a big believer in print me invest a lot in print and I think it's you know.

I don't think we should leap into assuming that everything has to be digital here here.

Have you actually somebody works on a Sunday newspaper? I think you know the way that people can see the news can differ quite a lot of throughout the week and they might like a hard.

Copy over Weekly magazine or Sunday newspaper while consuming a lot of their news during the week online for example.

Have you got yes? We do and I think for us.

That's very important because we're talking to the type of woman who looks at her phone probably before she's gotten out of bed and it's the last thing she does before she goes to bed and we're really proud of our digital and social following saying that for me.

It's about a kind of holistic makes me think Sonia is right you read the

Friendly and you engage with different content in print and online so there's room for both and when your parents hate 14-year-olds by certain things to sanitize the world are the things that you consciously leave out of the week junior Prince and me last week.

We covered on his show at the story about Michael Jackson allegations around him.

Would you have that in your publication because there are certain subjects.

I think most parents would feel more comfortable knowing that they're the first person to talk to their child about it and we are Leone parents.

I have a 10 year old and weighs 10 year old do the dust 13-year-old so I'm quite well aware of the kind of things that I'm happy talking to me about the kind of things.

I don't really want other people talking to them about so we just we just apply a little bit of kind of sensible common sense editorial judgement and we do that mean.

We have a survey running at the moment.

So that's open 2 subscribers the adult subscribers to the magazine for the children and actually everything that we thinks seems to be reflected in their one of the questions we.

Nervous about the sort of subjects are happy for us to write about the kind of things with they'd rather we didn't so yeah.

I mean Roses Catherine you and I spent years in an industry where there's been so much too young people don't care the business model is in decline.

He got a specialist publication.

It's a printed publication is terms of the young people and it's growing a circulation.

I think it sounds absolutely fabulous.

I was just saying before we came in here that I'm delighted.

I didn't know it exists I'm delighted that it does and I'll certainly be buying it for my children when they are all the old enough to read my missus ba2709.

I think it's fantastic and actually when you asked the question about you know it is this playing into parents fears about screen time I actually feel like it.

It's letter tug between in at the written word and screen time and more tag between kind of not wholesome content but good quality content and junk content that.

I would you go to the power on to talk to you beautiful turn on Jobseekers we gonna move on to talking and Souls II cafe, let's get out of date with something other media Turkish news.

It's in the in the news today because the government commission Jason furman for medical advisor to Barack Obama to lead this review into competition in the Tech sector listening to have heard some of it and published them talk to and the news today.

He wants a code of conduct for tech Giants which is a very familiar idea now you want stuff enforcement of competition rules anyone's consumers to be given more control over their data.

This is really looking at stories like Facebook's purchase of what happened Instagram after failed to buy a SnapChat I don't like you but I heard this and thought we said about this before many many times.

Do you think she's actually going to change actually? I think they have been a string of similar conclusion, but I actually need each one makes it more likely that this will finally happen then becoming very very hard to ignore and professor furman came to the same conclusion that they came course review before it and Jeremy Wright she just said that actually there needs to be a proper.

Competition markets authority investigation into the digital ad market and that needs to be wholesale change of competition rules to take account not only of the size of these companies when they buy each other but also the kind of doors that they shutting off were so Philip Hammond I think in the end of Chancellor spring statement said that you I think the interest at them idea of a review of the district as Mark the other thing that surround the course is a this much heralded paper on online harm.

So that these reviews of the government sets up there to do for a long wait with it's ok with you or this one by Jason furman.

Next week.

Maybe could end up being a week after there is going to be finally be a government paper on online harms not actually hear what clear online armies, but it could include things like images of self-harm addictive behaviour.

Do you have a sense that last whether it's through a new regulator offnet what every might be that we are moving to a new relationship between government and B technology companies in this country.

We have already moved to that.

I think that when this white paper was first conceived actually the government was very reluctant to legislate insane tuna descent years warning that they might do something without actually doing anything.

Where is now there have been setting Catholic catalyst sadly like Molly Russell who died after seeing you just self harmed in Zagreb Indian I think that really crystallized the moment.

Thank you made it impossible for the government to do anything but introduce some at least some laws that all genuinely change behaviour and I also think that tech companies House time to feel the backlash.

They may still be worth into a sum of money in this may still have huge numbers of users, but there is a really growing sense that they are bad for you.

So thin as well as developing in this debate about how we regulate big tech which is the best way of doing it and there is some important philosophical differences so the firming review that's really taking a very sort of competition Bay

The pirate let's get more rivals in the market.

Let's have you ever competition authority that's making sure that you don't see somebody's big murders happen, but I think a lot of people on the left in particular.

Would look at it and say what that just doesn't go far enough yet.

You take a big cat for my Facebook that's a natural Monopoly actually need to regulate it much more like a public Utility and that some of the language that you're starting to see emerge for example on the left in the US from presidential candidate Elizabeth Warren last week that sounds so I think I've read in an aerial vehicles you write for me that to your opinion editor The Guardian you write and the leaders for the Observer that always every paper sets out this dance on the issues of the day and their grand editorials in many papers.

Take great care in writing in today's edition Temperley the columns at all about that then be aware that we mentioned earlier and hear more about after 5, I assure you at the Sands is headline woeful MPs failed Britain and says that their conduct at this critical.

In our history has shamed Parliament artefact that's adjustable today's leaders, so I won't bother to quote from anymore, but do readers do you give a monkey's the editor of one of the oldest newspapers in the world is better.

They don't know held in Scotland which is been going since 1783 by the way is now stopped publishing a daily leader.

We are still held on but they declined though it did tell us that it was still printer leader on a Sunday and may print and occasional Colin if it is Justified Sonya make the case for miracles.

What's the point? I really important the first is I think he does offer a different form of opinion newspaper op-ed pages, so it's a place to go for a kind of globe distilled measured view we like to think at the Observer based on the evidence.

It's a place.

Where are we does it not about telling readers what to think but it's saying you are we taking a look at it.

We come from a centre-left standpoint.

This is where we are the second reason.

I think they're really important around transparency, so we're not the BBC where is Centre

We have our in political philosophy and the leader line is essentially where that political philosophy gets bail out and I think in a day and age where there's a declining trust in the media lots of fake news.

It's really important that newspapers that open and transparent about where they're coming from and then the third thing I would say is that they can actually having I don't understand to self important here, but they can have in history.

They've had great impact over the Observer for example.

We've really got things right if you look at a 1956 editorial line on CSV example.

We've also got things really wrong like 2003 on a rocking and we've owned up to that in a leader line at different Asia was me that was a different age in every which you accept that with a declining newspapers influence.

There's been a proportionate decline in the influence of editorials to challenge that actually so I think we are in an incredibly volatile time is a nation.

I think people are looking for really considered informed opinion.

I think we've got a huge subject like bricks.

A lot of voters that you feel like the political parties are delivering.

I think a lot of our readers really sure that she reassured to see the Observer come out and take a very strong editorial stance on brexit.

You know we think they sort of saw a bit of just need to ship and in India changed its reassured observatory does about their own dupatta WhatsApp to change the country what kind of editorial column chart.

I think it helps shape the Debate so for example if I take the leader that we wrote just before the brexit vote in 2016.

We made a very broad positive case the European Union and we have readers write in to us after it's saying we really enjoyed that piece that made a positive case that we haven't seen in the remain campaign and it helped informal conversations that we were having around the did the dinner table with brexit, so I think it every level whether it's in politics or you conversations that we are readers have every day and informed about talking to the

Edit about his time running Telegraph to very good, but I've always doubted whether more than 10% of any newspapers readership.

Look at his editorial column.

It may be argued that this 10% includes all the most important people in the country.

Isn't what you're really doing you're still transparent Wisdom you're speaking to Italy people in a city or in Whitehall and reassuring them about their prejudices or challenge women some other cases, you're not speaking to the mass market at the Observer we make a big deal of our editorials, so we give them a good showing online with some time to put them on off front page and actually are best before me editorials particular ones on brexit on trump.

They do as well online as an some of our top columnist, so I really disagree with this idea there isn't a market for editorial.

I think it's about how about the elite talking to the elite.

What about a bunch of genus inclusive officers you rather go out to the people do to reporting which team does very well is quite separately just talking to it as slither the country that she cares what you saying the end, I don't recognise that they are reporting really.

Star editorial line, so you another another example of a strong position is where a very anti-austerity paper.

We do a lot of reporting around what cuts to schools and hospitals, what impact the having around the country and that really affects our editorial like we recently did a really strong punchy lead out on school cuts for example.

I don't really think that that's really talking to the elite how to tutorial congratulate yeah gratsia.

We have a page at the front which is called The View and I think that is our opportunity to take a stance on an issue with the day.

I think about your tablet player.

Yeah, we tackle everything that I think on politics.

What's very interesting is in the research are women told us that one in three of them are talking about politics more than they ever have done before but only half of them feel that any political party represents them so I very much see our role in politics about and introducing them to topics.

The day through great interviews and brilliant reporting and you do it through Siri digital recorder doing this rudraksha.

Yeah, Jeremy Corbyn dead in that was not in my time, but in my time.

We've interviewed ever on from Luciana Berger to Matt Hancock remain or leave publication.

We have an actually taking a stance either way, but I think it's our job to as I said inform our women and give her lots of different opinions on the topic cases, that is the distilled wisdom of the publication is transparent.

You know where publication stand and you can shift the Debate there's all things you want to do in 8 to 14 year old with me.

I think it's really important dates of 14-year-old to let them form their own opinions about things.

I don't think we should tell them what they should think I'm with a week with week junior with very very careful not to let our own political opinions seep into the pages are we are very clear about facts and opinions think turn media literacy is a big deal at the moment as a lot of talk about fake news and how do children know the difference between what's real and what isn't so we can we have a

Our principal's are very clear on that but we don't we don't tell our readers what we think we let them come up with their own views and Catherine is it actually possible to publish 020 columns and maintain impartiality news publication that the man is it snowing today is very opinionated frontpage.

You know her mouth sounds almost think you know the New York Times rinses trying to say there's a big difference in your people running these pages.

Don't know what's going to the opinion pages.

Is it possible to actually maintain impartiality was publishing editorials.

I think it has to be very carefully handled.

Yes, I do think it's possible for example as a as a journalist at the Daily Mail I often won't have a clue.

What's going on in the leader column until I see it the next day, but there is no doubt that leader Collins also as Sonia said they provide transparency about with the papers view and the prison that everything has been seen through so don't see all 9 publications there BuzzFeed fries and a dazzle have posted on or vice.

They don't have a veto EU leaders are mostly talk to older readers only I don't think that's true actually I mean I think again if you look at some of our leaders on brexit.

I don't think that they'd just get traction with iskcon.

Very difficult to solve break it down but the numbers would suggest that the scale of the numbers would suggest it's not just older readers reading the paper it summer by younger readers who engage with us online.

But I actually think I mean I think if you if you do if your News website no fair enough, but I think where it gets really dodgy actually it's when you look at some of the websites on the left and the right so like the Barrington area on the left or right but for example of Wight weather isn't always a clear distinction between editorial and opinion and reporting and at the Observer we are very very clear that are reporting is not kind of muddied by opinion.

I think we should have editorials at the media show where we asked for more time to be always seem to run out that is there I'm not going to say this thing on my squishies.

That's all you got to have today, but then again it is taxed it.

Will I get sunny side of the Observer Anna bassi editor-in-chief for the week junior Catherine Russian for the Daily Mail and Hattie Brett editor of Karachi are not gratia.

Don't forget to download a miniature podcast you search on BBC sounds and hit subscribe.

See you sometime next week.

Thanks for listening and Dubai

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