Read this: Investigating Extremism on Radio 4
Summary: PodcastDownload MP3 www.bbc.co.ukInvestigating Extremism on Radio 4…
BBC sounds music Radio podcasts show the BBC time to the far right I was horrified that someone well known for Neo Nazi symbolism and indus intimidation was being given a platform and feedback this week.
I'll be talking to those responsible for the controversial Radio 4 documentary in the right also this week.
Why is the BBC pulling its podcast off Google on the documentary that stopped many of you in your tracks slave?
And take your rest.
All my love.
Dad, I told my own son and I was filled with sadness for what happened and anger that it did happen first should these voices be heard on BBC Radio Merseyside toxic The Clash Of Civilizations is happening right now accused of murdering and shooting on Tuesday afternoon Radio 4 broadcast in the right in which self-described feminist journalist Laura white investigated the role of women in far-right social media before it had even had the choice of contributors which included Lucy Brown a former associate of the far-right figure Tommy Robinson had generated a great deal of controversy Radio 4.
When are you giving airtime to Lucy Brown this afternoon? She's a neo-nazi and a friend of Tommy Robinson once again BBC Radio 4 is giving a platform to out-and-out neo-nazis.
There's a distinction between platforming and critical reporting without the latter surely.
We're blind after the documentary was broadcast our listeners was splitting their responses that there was some who are nervous about identifying themselves because of the reputation of far-right groups for targeting credits with both online and in person harassment Thomas having seen a prominent extremist promoting her appearance on Radio 4 was horrified that someone well known for Neo Nazi symbolism preaching hate and endorsing intimidation was being given a platform.
I stand by my original thought that this gives questionable views too much prominence with I think by the time.
I didn't really know much about it.
I thought it was quite cool.
Looked it up and it's called the Black Sun but I kind of foolishly just sort out.
That's cool like I wear that.
Programme was a fine piece of work the crystallized a recent phenomenon of which I imagine many listeners made previously have been unaware Lara White and the BBC deserve to be congratulated on it Jenny Fletcher had I not listen until the very last word.
I could easily have been left with the impression that the program has less than balance.
They provide public he is the potentially increases the movement of mainstream of Hail making it much more powerful and I believe more of a threat definitely a need to inform about the threatening political movements here and in other countries that the program went dangerous Inn near the edge of giving it legitimacy in the UK so why did the BBC decide to give her time to these devices figures I spoke to Max of Brian the programs producer and first to Rodger money editor of editorial standards for Radio 4?
I understand the concern that people have when we give our time to people whose views of contentious that sometimes I find them offensive and you know we have to think about that offence and where there's a public interest in actually giving airtime two people but it's a different order isn't as we are just saying people who might be take some offence.
This is a group of people who lost Saracen Instinct are racist and particular light of what happened in New Zealand are baffled at the BBC should want to give them any voice at all.
This is essentially the oxygen of publicity argument, isn't it? Which she became a very very popular with Margaret Thatcher benign the oxygen of publicity to the ra, the world has moved on in those days your broadcast Media print media with very much for The Gatekeepers and if you weren't on those platforms.
You didn't have any publicity the fact of the matter is that the world has changed and these people have influence on social media their Platt
Show me some social media and if we don't cover it and explore it and get to understand it.
It doesn't cease to exist it just exist with Alison has been less informed about it.
Yeah, but some people would say it exist without the imprimatur of the BBC The Very fact of the BBC interview search people bestows on them.
What shall we say legitimacy? Well? It's not a legitimate if they're arguments.
It's a recognition that these people are gaining influence and there's a a political movement that is happening and and it's about us getting to understand it challenging what they're doing analysing how they're getting to these positions of influence and allowing people to understand the world better and Sasha how often would you have said people on and is it something you would do very occasionally are you now saying because these voices have significant support you can expect to hear them quite frequently on BBC Radio we recognise the term.
We have an obligation to explore all relevant opinions, but there's a sense of giving them due weight and being proportional in the way we cover these arguments and the point that you make there is that your these are essentially although there's a growing movement.
These are still voices with a very much on the margins of politics and so you will hear them in our output in a proportion yellow there less frequently the sun has had some electro support for example absolutely exploring this not as a mainstream political phenomenon, but as something that is growing and Gathering support in certain sectors that we need to understand a cartoon azamax O'Brien who was the producer of in the right given the difficulties we been hearing about.
Why did you want to meet this program? I mean it wasn't easiest want presumably to make it wasn't easy Lara White T's the fantastic investigative journalist who presented this has spent about 18 months.
Types of fostering some kind of relationship with the women involved which enabled us to speak to them and these people who are very prominent on social media but actually don't speak to the mainstream press at all because they are inherently suspicious of it and I believe personally by no platforming than what we do is complain to their hands and allow them to establish a kind of auntie BBC and anti mainstream Media narrative which characterizes at people like the BBC as trying to either silence than my sense of them, so they made a few late.
They are appearing because they think ultimately it will promote their cause they want to get their point across and they think presumably by participating or you offering them the impossibility of participation.
You're helping them get their point of grass that they might think of this as an opportunity to get their point across and I think we certainly wanted to give them a chance to speak and we want to listen cos you want to learn about them fundamentally but all the way through the documentary we are pushing back and we are challenging their views and I
When you listen to the conclusion especially Lara is unequivocal in her to the concerned about their views and the fact that she argues that the ideas that are pushing a dangerous and she describes them as a threat well.
It was the Challenger I'm not saying was the wrong technique adopted, but it was a relatively laid-back technique.
We used to when people being interviewed on the Today programme Elsa when they come from this sort of perspective to been very robust Lee forcefully challenge the technique that you report to use was rather gently wasn't it? I completely agree and deliberately so because this was a crafted documentary feature that we're doing it was if you like eliciting their views, but not until the end of the program was there a significant challenge.
I think there's a significant challenge certainly after the description of Lucy Browns Nazi necklace and I think we do get challenge throughout but if we were to have challenged every single contentious point of this people making let's be honest.
They make a lot of highly contentious points throughout an interview.
We wouldn't have perhaps got.
A moment in which their Lauren southern evokes our grandchildren beading in the rivers of blood which reduces Canadian social media person banned from this country actually yes indeed trolling a highly intuitive process will be discussing the program says about the stretch the British government banned her from coming here.
You couldn't find her few interviews her that we interviewed her and spoke about why she was banned absolutely but did the British government viewed her as I think a threat afterwards.
Have you and has your reported receiving my tributes because that tends to happen if you do such programs.
I have received any at all butter Lara has received significant push back and significant levels of abuse on social media sordid from both sides from people who would support Lauren southern and Lucy Brown she's also received push back from people who say we shouldn't be giving them a platform although what I noticed is that most of the people calling for us to know platform these people once they listen to the program has to the Fallen silent, so do they was much more push back in town.
Weather will be coming on the platform before the program went out so I hope that people have listened to it and it would agree that we have been critical in and it's a said of a program that is educational and we can fund the listener about an important political phenomenon maxibright Roger Mania thank you now few weeks ago.
I went to the BBC's research and development Unit 2 examiners strategy for smart speakers, which they tell me what is an area of rapid growth, but what about the content they will be conveying earlier this week.
There may have been a setback some feedback listeners notice that their favourite BBC podcasts will no longer available on the Google podcast app or devices like Google phones or the popular Google home smart speaker hello my name is a quick note AK podcast from the BBC won't been updated on the Google podcast app.
Are you this because BBC zone Sounds app is a complete waste of time due to it.
Not having a cost function is it safer case of the BBC wasting money.
Alexander product trying to remove people prices in Kirk it's a discriminatory anti-competitive self-serving and yet also self defeating decision, please.
Reverse it what has been going on in search of Enlightenment I turn to the UK correspondent of the podcast newsletter hot bod Caroline Crampton what's going on? Why has the BBC Colditz podcast from parts of Googles podcast ecosystem, so it seems like there is a bit of a dispute going on between the BBC and Google about search results really so when you use Google search Google normally Paul's information from podcast feeds to display on the Google Search you can even play episodes right there on your search in some cases and the BBC has explained in her in a Blog that they don't like that.
They would rather searches were sent straight to the BBC website or BBC Sounds app.
So they've requested Google to direct traffic straight to them and Googles declined to do so they want people to use their own system as far as possible and as a result the BBC has introduced a bit of code that stops Google doing that indexing process for new episodes.
Why is it so important to the BBC that listeners are people were going through search engines are directed straight to them say this all has to do with the BBC Sounds app a big reason why they like BBC sounds so much are they like people to use it is because when you use BBC sounds.
They can gather data on what you listen to how long for a your preferences and so on which the BBC say is a great thing for them.
Because it enables them to Taylor what they make Taylor what they recommend.
You make more of what you like and less of what you don't like and so how does it affect the list at the moment are we all going to be in effect forced to go to sounds if we want to BBC programme it's not quite that drastic yet, but this.
Smooth with Google does maybe suggest that we are heading more in that direction.
She wanted her grandson is the BBC's of policy on the 100 trying to make to get out there whenever anybody is and make sure that it's content is available.
Wherever you are whatever you have you choose to consume it on the other hand it's saying you must come to sounds at the seaside contradiction there isn't it? Yes.
I think there's absolutely a contradiction there and it's also a contradiction that I think Ofcom the BBC's regulator is going to be quite interested in because the BBC's distribution policy which sets out how they work with third-party distributors of which Google was 14 podcast says that the BBC has this obligation to make their staff as accessible as possible the widest possible platforms, but that it can withdraw from such agreements where there is quote and objective justification and I think it's for Ofcom to decide what an objective justification is and whether this is she with Google not sharing data and not pointing.
People straight to sounds merits that but yes it is absolutely contradictory that the BBC as a licensed refunded broadcaster, you know made for the people with public money is now not available to some people on some devices and you get the impression that this is a as it were a decision the BBC's taken for some time or do you think what we're watching is in effect and ago station between Google and the BBC conducted very much in the open.
I think it's definitely a negotiation between the BBC and Google its ongoing in the blog explaining this move Karen Clifton even says that's absolutely yes, and he even says you know we're waiting to see if we can work this out with Google and this could all change.
So yes, I do think that this is a negotiation.
It's been going on behind closed doors and for whatever reason it broke down it got to a point where the BBC felt they had to take decisive action and now we survey wait to see what the responses to Caroline Crampton
Hot pod we asked The Corporation to explain this issue further in an interview that no one was available though, they did tell us that and I quote they want their programs and services to be available to listeners whenever and wherever they want them to be and that there are continuing to have conversations with Google to resolve this quickly where we are putting a number of practical solutions to them well do keep let us know what you think and another thing we'd love to hear from you about his Radio 6 Music because next week.
I'll be interviewing Paul Rodgers the controller about his recently redid schedule and the future of his network if you want to get in touch with feedback.
You can email feedback at bbc.co.uk tweet us at BBC R4 feedback.
You can leave a phone message on 03 333 4445 44 standard landline charges apply, but it could cost more on mobile networks.
Feedback PO Box 67234 London se1p 4ax all those details are on our website now back to this cuts to Radio 3 late Junction that we discussed last week the experimental music show is going from 3 auditions week 2 1 0 beard longer Edition and that's proved extremely unpopular among correspondence to feedback.
It's also prompted criticism from music journalist and prominent musicians and petitions to ask the controller to reverse the proposed cuts as I said last week.
We invited Alan Davie the Radio 3 controller to discuss these issues on feedback, but he did not use to make himself available.
We were given a statement instead weekly in new commissioning rounds for the program and can't comment further at this stage, but as Alan outlined in his blog.
On about the BBC late Junction that will remain a regular and important feature on Friday nights all our musical genres are important to us none of the decisions have been taken lightly that's why I will Radio 3 have to play its part in making significant savings in all areas.
We have sought to protect the full range of music genres not satisfied many about listeners.
My name is Chris Wood who created the incredible high handedness of the controller of radio 3 in simply announcing that he who is going to refuse to come onto feedback until after the cuts take place in October basically sanctioned an accountability and Harriet thistlethwayte.
I find it so enlightening as discovered sermon.
The artist some pieces of music by hearing it and it's a regular in my schedule.
It's perfectly timed.
I'm just wondering what now Theo Morgan I would like to pull the decision to cut late Junction output of such programs of the classical music played on Radio 3 on the BBC will be losing listeners to classic.fm late in the evening when people want to relax.
My name is David de fer if it's just about cost-cutting then don't cut the show itself keep the so perhaps in a different format this decision seems to smash complete lack of imagination.
I have to say all our invitation to Mr David to come and explain his decisions and discuss them with you or remains open but got some confined Radio 3 last week.
It was announced that 50 jobs have to be cut from production teams behind much of radio for shower put budgets as well as staff numbers are being trimmed which is likely to mean magazine programmes with fewer longer items and feedback list does of a long expressed concern that Radio 4 is pushing too hard for younger listeners and neglecting existing older audiences hello there to Maynard and I live near eye in Suffolk we had a serious BBC Radio listening family.
Where is the older audience supposed to go on the BBC there is clear?
Discrimination at work here Radio 4 invest so much effort trying to attract the young and I see no effort made by Radio 1 for example trying to attract more mature listeners Victoria Jones Llandudno Radio 4 use obsession because more evident by the day and the irony is that viewing figures show that young listeners an opportunity in just put your loyal devoted listeners are leaving in droves.
Thanks for the memory Radio 4 rest in peace hold and I've listened to several years.
I know several friends of my age also listen to Radio 4 on the radio during the day my point is trying to make radio for younger could risking losing young and old members who like it how it is.
I feel we do not need a Radio 1 torture BBC chairman.
David Clementi down play the issue during the speech and question and answer.
At the recent ippr Oxford Media convention every time we spend some more money trying to attract younger audiences.
Do we lose older audiences that must be a risk although? I think that the hybrid round Radio 4 is overstated radio needs to be moved forward.
Otherwise would still be having listening With Mother all workers playtime.
I'm already a needs to evolve in a statement.
Sent to us the corporation said that all of our radio stations are contributing towards the 800 million pounds of corporate efficiency is the BBC needs to make by 2020 12 22 and Radio 4 is not disproportionately affected by these savings separately in BBC Radio we are also receiving reimbursement money from the BBC to fun sounds across our networks.
We are committed to serving both current listeners and building the next generation of audio fans.
This isn't about being used focused this.
SAS keeping BBC Radio relevant to all of our audiences from the BBC will have to make further cuts to pay for free licences for the over 75's or face the odium of means testing or taking those licences away from the elderly and on Thursday if the corporation is unit annual plan which laser priorities and budgets for the year despite the top cuts they appear to include a 10 million pounds increase in the overall radio budget although unlike last year the plant doesn't detail how that will break down amongst the networks that isn't yet clear which individual stations may get extra money and which may have to make even more savings with all those figures will be made available later in the year in the annual report a hamster is Aldi's cats and how is the BBC to be accountable do you the licence fee payers for its decisions Android by Colin Brown the chairman of the voice of the listener and viewer come and brown?
Internally you hear from Radio producers and others who face with but just that I cut that they're worried about what happened is the programme the longer interviews more studio bound and so on those what is shared by your numbers in principle.
They share those worries.
I'm not sure whether they've heard yet much differences in the program, but they read about what might be happening the weird about the stories and that causes significant concern and I think this coming year is the year in which people are really going to notice the differences are going to notice see the cuts that are coming through and it goes rabbits recognise their the challenge is the BBC does face giving the unsatisfactory nature of recent findings that the overall had to find 800 million pounds in savings because of the latest licence fee deal, but there's another thing coming towards them which is extremely serious which is the cost of funding free licences for the over 75 weeks ago and has made of BBC responsibility rather than the government one I had the chairman.
BBC said could cost the corporations 745 million pounds after fifth of its budget and the BBC has to come to a decision before the summer break now presumably some of your older members would not like to have their free licences taken away well.
It's interesting we've had a survey of members and the first point that comes back in a absolutely clear.
Where is a didn't think the BBC should be funding this think the government should still be fun to get you some of your members will be happy to pay the money.
They don't think they should have to but they're prepared to do it for the BBC absolutely but they also feel that if one is not successful in getting the government to take on board responsibility for this payment and as we all know that's not an easy argument.
It's a bit of a conversation that you'll be toggle towards those who really need it rather than abroad payment as as of now and of course on top of all that we have this devotional resources 2BB
Sounds and two young people in particular this Focus is there some worry among our members about that this focus on youth there is a potential concern we understand the need for the BBC to attract a younger audience of course but the tourists without the first is that they alienate the traditional audience and that the mustn't happen and the second is that original a successful in attracting the young audience all your break the mill left as a little bit late.
It's a risky tactic and in many ways I can BBC would arguably whiskey not to do it but nevertheless that has to be a fairly big question mark over this strategy and this comes around the question finally of accountability the rockets going on program budgets are being cut programmes of being cut and what can you do about it? We have a concern about the the level of accountability and the BBC stakeholder programmer or lack of involvement with the stakeholders.
It's much less than it was younger days of the BBC trust the BBC Trust at its own problems of course but nevertheless it was a very.
Consultation equally we don't see that cat being filled by Ofcom of comes with views do not regulatory regulator Ofcom the reviews do not seem to involve stakeholders to the same extent as to BBC Trust did so that's another real concern that we have our thanks to Colin Brown of the voice of the listener and viewer and finally the grenfell Tower fire, which claimed 72 lives in June 2017 has led to a great deal of soul-searching and exhaustive enquiry into its causes and some very powerful stories of Tragedy heroism and failure in an archive on 4 broadcast on Radio 4 on Saturday reported Katie razzall.
Look back on the first phase of the enquiry into the tower fire and whether a series of errors lead to unnecessary deaths in the flat neighbouring the one where the fire broke out for many listeners.
It was a heartbreaking listen somebody gave her my number and I said she.
Contact me that she wanted to paint a flat 9 Aberdeen now relation was just about to move into a tower block in West London when she call me hello feedback does Danica I was aware of the horror of the fire and how fast it spread but I appreciate of hearing the stories of the firefighters and residents that night I thought of my own son and I was filled with sadness for what happened and anger that it did happen.
Jackie Williams just listen to the grenfell programme very moving dignified and conveyed so much.
Thank you to all Duncan fridge and almost minute by minute account of the incident of that awful evening to hear about the Choices That had to be made of life and death a wonderfully produced program button below.
you'll be hard to listen to until we meet again Beautiful Soul
and take your rest.
All my love.
Dad I really had such a powerful and disturbing documentary well.
That's it for this week's feedback, goodbye.
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