Read this: #113 - Cash Boost for Children’s TV; Global’s Billboards; Gender Pay Gap Redux

Hello and welcome to the media podcast I'm Olly Murs on today's show with a cash injection bring children back to TV we discussed which face of 80s pop culture is getting a lift II ever gender pay gap survey that makes for uncomfortable reading and globals billboard takeover plus will play their word against hours in the media quiz.

It's all the come today's Media podcast and yesterday in veteran contributor corner is the managing director of indie gold Wala its Ferrers Osman hello friends.

I'm alright.

Thank you.

What's exciting you what's floating your boat at the moment Beyonce's on Netflix the sun is shining at some ice cream so I like to share got it all.

Set up ok and making her Media podcast debut its broadcaster.

Jane Garvey welcome to the show.

Thank you very much.

You're one of the first voices.

Beef S Voice on 5 Live I believe how did you feel this 25th anniversary present? I think I didn't involve me in the celebrations this year.

I think it's like they want to pretend.

I never existed because I'm bit orbit Radio 4 in a bit tragic so I noticed I was kept out of any I didn't get any cake did I just couldn't afford to join an invite to Salford how did I said I was to be around for 5 lives 25th birthday news and sport idea that something from 25 years ago if you want a News Network now.

Would you have let's break for the live football continues to be at my favourite radio station.

It is the station I listen to.

Gordon any other and I'm sure I'm not in a minority.

I am interested in live football commentary and brexit and everything else going on in the world and I'm afraid I've had one of the things that they did do that on the day of the birthday with I think I think it might be on the radio today podcast they played a bit of audio from the drinks party.

That was held at Broadcasting House on the morning at 5, I started an impossibly stuffy woman from one of the broadsheet newspapers has asked what she thought as she said something like as after hearing the launch Breakfast Show it so I did with Peter Alan she said it was footballers getting to listen and I just love yous and 25 years.

I didn't say any better and I am absolutely convinced.

There are millions of people like me with a rude it with a broad range of interests include Sport live sport politics international news.

I want it all and

That I get it all on 5 Live it's wrong for us when they just put the football on sport extra.

I think that's it feels like a proper without kind of sites angry sycophantic, but it feels like a proper public service and in India wear in a news is breaking all the time and things are happening all the time.

It's it's actually quite comforting to be able to know there's a place that's not Sheltie 24-hour news on the TV that you can you can click on and you know that you'll be getting the story that's breaking right now.

What what is interesting is that sometimes? I find it you turn on Radio 5 Live you're not sure if you can get football or is going to get what's going on in in the House of Parliament right now and that kind of whole understanding about and and it's interesting what torque is doing with Talksport and talk radio is RNA colour spitting out and and so they do you think kind of bouncy don't see each other it is kind of part of the charm of it, but but I do think it's interesting about how it is a really useful wherever you are don't matter if your front of the TV or not for another TV you're closer to Live new.

The can be offered and properly and edited in a way that Twitter you know all the things that we have been jumping to in the last few decades actually 5ly provide something that you can cut through all of that noise and get what's going on live in the moment which I think of the great thing you were plucked from local radio.

Won't you for five live you couldn't hear me anywhere other than by coming to Worcester where is that guy was Broadcasting at the time so I suppose they must have been able to get hold of cassettes of my seminal work.

I'm sure it wasn't plugged.

I applied ok BBC gets away with it all the time.

It's very short version of it was that you wasn't an official visit us about me, but plenty of other people this would like to take credit for blocking them that rubbish I applied and got through and was selected and then they also spin this idea that Peter Alan and I was

Can a dream team that will put together they just couldn't find anybody else in the end and Peter was the dirty but he knows this he wasn't the first choice to do the breakfast.

I certainly wasn't it? We just kind of God will I think honestly a lot of people sticking one of the beginning to be a terrible failure and then we can get some good people in once you've established the network in a couple of months time about career progression is kind of unprecedented now isn't if you're listening to this and you working BBC local radio and you'd like to think one day.

I could be on there for a national that just won't happen if you think you're right there and I think that's a real shame and I think Radio 4 also has to look at it look at itself a bit here.

I I I did some programs with BBC Radio Sheffield and woman's I'm some sort of simulcasting working together and the brilliant mid morning presenter.

They got there is call Paulette Edwards I'm sorry if she is at least as good as almost any other presenter on Radio 4 and 5 Live and and I think you're right.

I'm not sure how the poor let's have this world I go.

Ring to get onto national radio because once you're on National radio and people don't they don't move and they just don't move and others it is wrong and I think at Radio 4.

We are at the moment trembling in anticipation of our the announcement of a new controller and I think the new controller video for whittled it down to two for people.

I think they're going to have to make some big bold and Some Might Say difficult decisions about the network and Woodward everybody out of leftover is going to be with the £7.50.

That's nothing about in the coffers and if it's being used as a career path that not that's not necessarily you could see nothing having local voices that become really familiar in those places and it's not always seen as a job application for National radio, show is you know I would like it as lot of credit to that and there is somebody interesting things happening in in.

Radio with no Tiffany who's who's now doing the Radio 1 rap show and it's Daisy who's doing the the KISS Breakfast Show now after they've been to be like a bit of a round-robin going on with lots of people moving to Radio 1 and moving to beats 1 radio and and that's kind of allowed an opportunity for new Talent to come through in those guys have been doing stuff online a lot of meeting with their own radio stations in the Wren bedrooms, and then being heard firefighter podcasting absent and via social and then that's really kind of Lead them to jump onto the national stage which I think is a different path through and I can quite exciting but I don't think I should I really don't think we should just miss like radios being a and opportunity she just kind of yourself to National what I would say about local radios.

Is it splits the place? I've worked the hardest at because Road local radio presenters work hard and and I don't earn a lot of money.

I bet you were talking about people who might well do a three-hour Breakfast Show in the morning possibly now double-headed little probably drive.

There will be driving the desk and they might well.

I'm at me.

I used to work 16 hour days.

I'll be out in Herefordshire chatting to a w i n the middle of nowhere at home because I have never over the supermarket.

I will have turned on the Christmas lights in Hereford yeah, will you confirm consumer champion like you on my side.

If someone that installed the wrong kitchen with Iris managed to get Hereford Worcester County Council to reinstate the village of Holly bushes, Hollybush sign which have been stolen firearm absolutely no, I don't know what I think.

I think local radio long live local radios licence.

Just hard work.

Let's move to the world of kids TV where the British Film Institute hopes to bring back homegrown children's television to the main channels as they're still calling them with an injection of catchphrase, what's the deal? What's happening kids TV for a long time is what's happened? Is the junk food?

Sizing history that that law has meant that there's been a retraction of cook its content on on the commercial channels because I can't find advertisers to effectively fund it so the government.

I think it'll be the right level does State of septum separate we need to do more beyond just a licence fee to to help British kids content cut through which is a very good thing in in principle and that hopefully it will allow particularly the non public service broadcasters to be more tempted into think it's content back onto the main channels and an allowable bit more particularly the British tone of voice rather than just doing American imports.

Would you all a good thing however? I would say that there is a bit of a concern that this puts in another layer of bureaucracy and I got a little bit of concern about ideas and no longer commission just on the basis of how good those ideas.

Are there are also being commission on how many hurdles in it and hoops you have to jump through to get funding from lots of different places and it's kind of almost 18 that indie film our producer arm.

What your

We are trying to find money here there and everywhere to get something made rather than the idea itself Cutting Through so this is the BFI launching the young audiences content fund it's worth 57 million pounds is coming from the UK government contestable fund there's a bit of space for public service audio for children as well as 3 million Sam Bailey I think is looking after from Radio 1.

What does that mean will it is not just the BBC that are having that hold a public service fund as it were and and you can go and apply for money or is that will get grants for money? I'm not sure exactly the right terminology that whole house fits in but you need to demonstrate.

Don't you? I think that it's 50% funded by channel you play for the other 50% of the BBC but I think it can include going on the BBC but the idea is Des another route to to production and Jazz isn't this? What would he thought it was but I thought as well at the BBC CBBC and CBeebies job.

You do a good job and do well.

I remember I've got lots of Media memories and I

Never forget the money into CBB CBB started because I my kids are so although they were body only one was born before CBeebies but we were there on the morning it launched at 6 a.m.

And I just meant thinking my life has just got easier.

It was Bliss I was great fun actually list from then on but it was substantially easier to go to the other one particular program, which I remember talking to did you ever come outside if you've seen at 4, ok, Lynda Baron the actress who was in.

Open All Hours original version with Ronnie Barker looking black Oak Island episode of figure.

She was a dog owners mum.

She was a dog owner the dog is called Pippin and they use to fly around in a plane exploring things it's called come outside and the BBC Only Make 12 editions of it, but they did some fabulous things together including what's the best programs that ever seen about Britain's sewage system, I wasn't like to watch on a loop of such as my memory of come outside bring it back but a good point 12 episodes.

You still remember it that's the thing with kids telly.

Isn't it absolutely never but that's kind of fine because the kids only watch it for six months.

Yeah, and it's incredibly valuable as well because the Nostalgia it brings and I really think that the end of the inherent value.

You know I'm in your dad.

You're in your dad.

It's like the value of CBeebies CBBC is it on what's wrong with a pizzas my point? There is nothing wrong with that there were a few things about only having the BBC

CBeebies being the only place to kids content we need to make sure that there's a and more of a diversity in and what we're seeing is as a lot of kids are going towards YouTube and Netflix and Amazon which is a very americanized content in the main or certainly not as British as some of the things that we hold very beloved and and the second thing and I will give you the most important thing and I'm I'm on the BAFTA kids committee and we know this is this piece of the kind of store that I sit on and I'm very passionate about this is contempt teenagers and so this discount contestable fund goes up to 18 year old and I've been saying for quite a while that audiences at fifteen sixteen seventeen eighteen older than the CBBC BBC audience are widely ignored by most broadcast as you don't have any content for those got the impression they just give up but they said that because of my kids are now teenagers they find their own content so the only time we've got to influence them is before they are able to seek out their own content and that's why it really does matter that I think in particular BBC does continue to produce high.

Missy and British you're really liked it to emphasize that British shows with British values that we all agree with and we all we can celebrate.

This is commercially 5 shows the shake and stuff like that because it's not commercially viable in that's why it was Channel 5 shows Thomas I mean that is basically British values on international stage.

I mean that's clearly set in England does yes, there are there aren't there are clearly gaps in a different issues around kids television in the UK it's it's it's shrunken shrunk significantly but there is a repeated which is a valid argument.

You can people of stuff for kids, but there is a time when it becomes tired and old and you need to make sure you continue your fresh it there a lot of challenges around kids TV and and around the commercial viability of it particularly when there is been laws of come through around junk food advertising which is on the whole a good thing we need to do what we can to to look at childhood obesity which is a massive issue, but we need to find ways of balancing that I think that that's what.

Respond is going to do but the tricky is is how you gonna navigate it all in a world where used to be usually just got commissioner getting idea commission do not have to worry about speaking to 15 different commissioners, which which this could end up creating wasn't kids TV always a really cold like thing to commission because I'm talking you're not at the teenage end of things but at the school end of things actually always needed in place a kind of merchandise.

Deal you needed to know that there was a certified not in the UK we in when we were growing up.

You know Channel 4 doing stuff around education which was an afternoon, which is a block in the afternoon, which was remix by off comments.

So there was there was programming that was made at that time CBBC what's on BBC2 and had lots of attention which is why you had the whole playground Gathering around to watch one particular program which is why that nostalgia exist and which is now done CBBC's NOW TV to Channel which again is probably a good thing but there is created differences of in the market and you know we've been out and ITV used to have CITV again.

It's a block on the main channel which Now doesn't exist.

Landscape has changed significantly from when we were growing up and I think that we are always nostalgic about kids TV but if you went back and looked at it now is very different to what we have and we were growing up and it's important to reflect that im actually watching on Amazon Prime at the moment with my 3 year old reruns a Fireman Sam which actually came on here.

Just a few years are classed as under right arm about the slow pace of it is what's amazing watching it now the avenue, Tonypandy wasn't all I need is a bigger department that socialist you I think it was probably so maybe I'm going to show it to bed.

It's so much more relaxing than most of the stuff which is like a massive theme park ride.

Are you watching me if you see me to me you want if you want slow pace television ok? That's that's low TV for this generation is incredible in my little that said before bedtime.

Ok, so it is a good tip magazine publishing now where the face has relaunched well as a website from September as a quarterly print publication.

It was an eclectic mix of politics and Pop Culture in the 1980s of course legendary covers with Kate Moss Grace Jones The Stone Roses Jamie surprised to see that the face is being restarting not just as brown because we need the brand a bit bored, but eventually as a print title.

They are going to have a print version face again to me.

I want it own it.

I would have look at it.

I wanna feel it I would have cherish it cos I have a very special relationship with the face and by the way, I should point out that I'm probably the least likely reader of the face when I started buying it as an incredible exceptionally nerdy and unfashionable teenager the face meant an absolute an extraordinary amount to me now, I think.

Because it represented possibility and a life away from the obviously what I chose to see is the Desperate tedium of my suburban existence.

Culture present daring enough to do or beat any of those things I read about also in the face, but I loved being able to get a window on that world and I I should also say that apart from obviously birth of children and that kind of thing standing in Smyths in Southport and seeing a copy of the face and finding out they printed my letter will be one of the best moments of my life that kind of their excitement isn't it 4 hours because for me it was something in the 90s.

Forgot about one day now whether he actually if I was excited about it like Jane is that's maybe not good news for a publication that all about fashion and and targeting younger people that it had.

It was an artefact of the time and it doesn't there's a danger that you bring these things back and some you dilute how how impactful they were I did this is a really crowded market now and they're a lot of magazines that didn't exist back when the Faces a big deal that you know there's Wonderland is Hunger magazine these cold these big thick quality publications that have 75% fashion advertising their fashion advertising and you know the couple of articles here and there and it's all about the front cover because that's what you put on your coffee table and that's what it's there for you know it has a bit of value but and the first edition.

I'm sure will do very well because it's welcome back to the face will be interesting to know if it's still around a year later.

She could be advertised on that sort of all that matters isn't it's a big fashion houses are excited recently adverts in it whatsoever and all these magazines that existed before hand work much thicker but but now they simply struggling to get advertisers and you no deal six £7 for a copy of the magazine which is a lot of.

Money and for a monthly publication and and so in the fashion world there does seem to be in a still a market you to get advertising, but it is very crowded now.

They days of days and refuses out there like hungers out there Wonderland is out there.

There's there's a lot of these things have a lot of choice then is what choice for advertisers as well.

It's his kind of reportage and fashion because the face the edition that my letter was in was wrong with Terry Hall of a letter about definitely obviously I'm going to go back to Italy thing about r e o Speedwagon being shittin aren't the English better than Americans basically was and I didn't use my name.

I use somebody's name is pathetic, but I was 17 and this was this was a very big moment, but what was introduced at that particular edition was it was mixing footage of putting a report from Bob Marley's funeral and then there was fashion and the

Undercover out it was Terry Hall from the Specials was on the cover.

I remember this as I looked did look last night and it will the little back to me.

I may have just the ones you or you've got a collection if you cannot even answer that do those other magazines have all that stuff, but there is a lot of space, but you're certainly a lot of space for online and I think that what I did.

There.

Are there are smaller inverted commas magazines like galdem magazine and you know burnt roti which which looks at south Asian representation that much more highly focused on a particular demographic and they've done as brands become very successful, but my feeling is is that the business plan around this isn't actually the magazine the business line around it.

Is is to create a brand that you can then sell t-shirts around that you can then hopefully get a Netflix show with like you know Netflix in the face presents whatever that records hard pieces which is interesting in a BuzzFeed have had mixed success with that sort of thing Vox Media of had mixed success with that sort of thing but but I'm and Anna think there is a value.

Brand that exists there but it doesn't I don't I'll be interested if it really connects with the same under 25 demographic that the original face because I don't think even know what it is already exist and be on that you know now on Asus have ever existed online for were they do really well, you know what I'm doing some teaching whenever I speak to students.

They're talking about now and as it's nice that girl them and they're not really understanding what the face is it feels like an old piece of nostalgia, which I think it should stay at gal-dem.

I've really understood that we had a number of contributors on Woman's Hour on Radio 4 who written articles and other stuff done other stuff for girls and they always really interesting contributors and they they do get some good stuff and it's stuff that I must be honest the programs like mainstream programs on my car's would a struggle to get those voices actually I never heard of it if you're 25 or over is that the values that it stands for are quite zeitgeisty still on their kind of sexually.

Androgynous send a lot of DIY fashion and I'm basically kind of thing is you all over Twitter and Instagram I think that it has a very powerful brand for people that remember their magazine back when it was being published.

It's been on hiatus for 15 years or something like that which is the which is the whole generation with shift and if they want to cover track that audience back to them again.

I think they're gonna struggle if they want to attract the nostalgic audience people that listen to Britain 15 years ago, then then they may have a limited amount of success that I don't already in the queue this week by increasing their subscriber numbers by 9.6 million in the last 3 months despite mounting competition from Disney an apple as we talked about on this show a lot do you think James Netflix strategy will continue to work in the face of that competition isn't it Netflix everyone's got it and I because I knew was coming out.

I looked I haven't actually.

Anything on Netflix please long as I can remember so I looked at what was on offer for me this morning and a part of the Beyonce documentary which I think I will watch sorry there wasn't but I'm talking about me personally there was there was nothing that grab me but then I don't have a lot more time in my life for more binge watching.

Where do you do your brings watching? I don't really been to watch very much and I don't have a lot of time to watch telly and it would never be my priority so I do watch stuff, but I often watch linear television watch one episode forget to watch anymore, so shows like victim and the Widow with aib.

I think I saw the first episode of the victim never watched any more it was a guy you thought it was going to be by the Crown will comes out in the ultimate Christmas time.

I probably will watch that are successful Netflix that im getting my money.

Yes, because you watch it.

I miss spending a lot on original content they 12 billion dollars last year can that continue my understanding is the reason of subscriber numbers of increases because they've been making progress in countries that didn't have Netflix before fits true to say that I've hid saturation points in in the UK and and us some sure there's still a little bit of the growth but generally if you want Netflix you can have have had it by now, but there are but when it comes to places like this are the interesting thing about launching in India and that's a kind of growth area for a lot of these streamers when it because it's Spotify or research or it's Netflix and there's a whole different tactic about your mobile first strategy and making things for smaller Screens and making things that available across 3G and 4G networks that they've always been the first at and that's really really compelling and I forgot what your question was what your bestie loads and loads of money.

Viewers they've got left so now so they they started to release figures around certain shows and Worcester City Council searches not getting enough figures calories.

There is movement there.

There's rumours are there going to be training a top 10 feature of the top 10 most watched shows on Netflix to kind of promoting that space, but my favourite game is still looking other people's Netflix it's a little bit like when used to go people's houses a look at the CD collection if you log into people's Netflix is a different completely different set of shows from what you get down based on on their viewing habits and I always think that that's really compelling my mum and dad's Netflix suggest a program is very very different to my nan and that's always a lot of fun because I cannot of Mexican soap opera, did you know you can get on there so much stuff that you don't know because is not targeted at you and it's nice and they are very good at kind of making sure that that that programmatic advertising agencies are not too many young men using an offer if you don't have enough honestly.

I've got Amazon Prime as well, so actually I've really got me.

Absolutely hung out to dry over a barrel and they've got my money.

So they can do what the hell I like with it and they are doing nearly making loads of content for other people to consume, but you want to be with curly fries and sort of teased ahead to the launch of apple and Disney entering the streaming service world as something that could be a game-changer and I am at your the show since we know what they're doing now.

We know what they're doing is not like so I can take a roundabout by Disney an apple and both Disney and apple have no one really knows what's he is rapid.

I've got some thoughts about it, but certainly could give me it's it feels fairly obvious if you've got children you were going to subscribe to Disney class.

It doesn't matter if you got Netflix all you got Amazon already, and it is looks like an incredible service and I think that they'd incredible job because that back catalogue.

Yeah.

I mean every Disney movie ever released which which it's and then taking them off other platforms platform also unlock them.

Could never buy all the Disney DVDs at the same time because they created built-in scarcity which is part of the old original DVD and VHS strategies Disney had that's gone if you want to watch every Disney movie you can now do that you watch every Marvel movie you can now do that.

They only a Star Wars they've got content coming out with one of the with the world's biggest franchises and they they are you know going to be able to connect a bowl of this morning to stand alongside that they will be done this massive deal with Sky as well and no nachos is going to be on that platform and they're gonna be doing stuff with Hulu ok apple isn't great so I think the Apple strategy is still unclear purposely unclear and lots of people are speculating if you want my two pence all the Ashley lentz little 79.

Have you wanna look at it.

I think the Apple strategy.

Is is a uniden particularly in the UK it's worth looking at what ITV and Channel 4 it doing so ITV and Channel 4 a boat launching subscription Arms to the on.

Replace brick boxes of he coming with your subscription service as well and what it seems to be happening.

Is is the Apple going to be launching all these programs to move people into their TV app and therefore allow you to subscribe to all four on ITV and it becomes effectively a shop front so I think that the strategy isn't the same as Netflix or even indeed the same as Disney's I think what Apple strategy seems to be is coming open our TV app which exists on all devices that you have including Samsung TVs an LG TVs you will see Jennifer Aniston and Steven Spielberg and all of these great things which will draw you into that app and then when you come to make a decision about whether or not you want to subscribe to brick blocks or pulu or even maybe Disney plus, you will do that via the Apple TV app and then they will get a 30% cut of of that subscription which is what they're very very very successful app store model has been and I think that that's where we're going to see their strategy move towards so I think you need to look at Apple TV as more of the distribution and shop front.

Strategy so they'll be hard l BB on tonight for online tellie, basically exactly will be crying exactly we don't have Netflix which is number one and then pushed back very hard unsubscribing via to Netflix via the app so you cannot do that via the iPhone Apple the iPad app.

I've made it very difficult to do that cos I don't want to share the revenue with their Spotify have done the same thing but if if apple concurrent ice partners like Disney and and light Channel 4 on ITV and brickbox and all of those guys need that's a very lucrative amount of money that they will be able to turn over Month by Month and in a very different strategy to watch Netflix doing but if they don't have Fireman Sam Jones are they going to do over their own original content but I think the way to look at it, is it when you buy your phone from Apple there are original apps on your phone which are free, but I know for the benefit of the listener has literally held up his fine man.

He's doing it as a phone apple product.

There are Apple products.

With the best for that goes utilities, but they don't push you towards purchasing other apps via app store and I think a similar strategy will probably be followed, but they need to make sure they have the best possible content so that you do press that Apple TV button and get into that universe ok will be back with more media news after this to show how your LinkedIn connections can help you find a job.

They posted a job listing on LinkedIn for voice-over artists to make this add my girlfriend send me this job.

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And you're very generous donations to this show every time you played your piece of money to this show we Plough it back into the podcast where that's recording bonus episodes of finding you guess so help us make great new episodes all year round by taking out of voluntary subscription if you would be so kind just head to the media podcast on / donate to me the news in brief now and join in 4 hours are still with me and let's Talk pay gap glad you're here Jane all the guests analysis by the press Gazette has found that nearly a third of UK media firms have seen their gender pay gap actually increase over the last 12 months and sadly needless to say not in favour of the Lady Jane what's going on here.

We know what's going on.

It's been going on since time itself began.

I should warn and boron about this for ages and I don't want to do.

That but I think it's worth repeating a few said of obvious core fact that the gender pay gap isn't the same as equal pay for a start Women's Lives and men's lives are not quite the same as there are companies that have apparently very bad gender pay gap that might be paying and women the same I got to pay many women the same for doing the same work because that is actually illegal.

This is of course where we get into very complicated territory and people lose their minds trying to work all this out at yes, so why are there more men in senior roles getting more money.

That's because Women's Lives and men's lives working lives tend to differ slightly when it gets the stage of families starting to have kids couple starting to have kids and we know that I suppose it.

What do we do to change the mindset that it's usually the woman who spends the time at home and I also got a very mind some women want to be at home.

I actually was at home myself and I were.

Part-time so that I could do bits of that and bits of what I wanted to do in the workplace so women make these decisions and sometimes they make them for very very good reasons and I would absolutely back them up what we need to do.

Obviously is change change of sip quite simply change the working culture and make it easier for men to feel free to make the same decisions some men won't want to make those decisions at all of course, but there will be some who are actually really desperate to be a home for longer at to be around more for their kids when they are young and also presume to allow those women who have taken the time whilst their children are growing up out of work to come back at an equivalent or more senior level it would be a couple of weeks.

This is that the idea of return ships getting women back into a senior managerial roles after they've been at home for a couple of years and some of these women are mbas, but they've been at home for a cuppa.

Yes, I need lose confidence in their own ability they feel they've fallen behind they won't be taken seriously and it's too often the emphasis in those situations is not on what a woman can offer but but she's thinking what is it? I won't be able to do at what is it? I won't be able to understand and they within a very reluctant to embrace.

What they have achieved in that time at home which is not literally not a walk in the park or that you will spend quite a bit of time in parks based on my own experience and the other thing as it is really important role of things are important here.

I will always been told women don't ask for a payrise.

That's utter rubbish women do ask for a pay rise and all too often.

They don't get one there's also the fact that women are not innocent here.

So there have been some very senior women at the BBC throughout my time there and it's it's all part of it in our psyche women as well as men to be more likely to rate men than women.

I didn't just men who rape men women rape men as well as well in media terms that a lot of the stories been focused on on our calendar presenter thing we used it at the Lyceum with BBC women will use the whip the presenters as a way of getting attention, but we're tiny we're not even a pinprick when it comes to actual representation of the BBC and the ongoing problems we have situation.

We haven't BBC's as you rightly say it with producers across the entire organisation who are have found that they are mysteriously paid on glamorous arms like 2 or 3 grand a year less than the bloke sitting diagonally opposite them doing the same job and you think we'll what does that matter will over the course of a career pensions everything else it really does matter.

Ok? So what about this list now?

So we have this The Economist has the highest pay gap although their chief.

Exec Chris stibbs says there is quite a healthy gender balance in recruitment and career progression what does success look like you looking at that list of media companies.

Is it about cos you mention of the different factors involved about just narrowing the gap more or is it looking for a parrot is parity actually not really achievable, but you're not in my lifetime.

I wouldn't think I think it it it it is already in time.

We've had a God knows a string of uncomfortable conversations at the BBC about this and I think it's cool ways to certain amount of embarrassment the BBC has been made to look quite old fashioned.

I've got two teenage girls.

They were they look at the BBC and they think what would this organisation offer me a place where we've had to listen to what your mother has enjoyed her what her working life and I have I should say but at the same time she also bangs on about how she's been underpaid and women of colour at the BBC are still getting a substantially.

More challenging time I would say than their white counterparts.

I think there was some issues at the BBC World Service about the way female producers have been treated and it's an endless ongoing string of issues and conversations that we are at least now acknowledging and we've also formed don't need any secret we formed a group who are continuing to talk to each other to cooperate to share stories and experiences and I think possibly people thought we might go away.

What it did it has never gone away that group is getting bigger and more and more women are joining and I'm getting involved so so nicely deflected back to the BBC looking at that list of commercial companies are any of them worthy of mention a bit of yes, they've done a good job Dennis Publishing has women paid more than men newsquest as well.

Yes, also brilliant office is very young.

It's these things are obviously not going to be sorted out overnight except to say that I do think it's important that across all media women get the same chances as their male counterparts and because we know that men have dominated in senior positions.

I don't think there is any doubt at all across all forms of Media certainly not just the BBC people have appointed in their own image.

They have given opportunities to people with whom.

They might have gone for a drink play golf with back in the day chatted to about West Ham all of these things do matter.

I meant I join BBC local radio there will be a Costa of male producers and editors who would stand around the cricket jangling the changing their trouser pockets and talking ink to me and my female colleagues incomprehensible gibberish about what was going on on the screen and it did feel that we were slightly outside.

Actually, we were right to feel it because we were only problem is brass even if everyone even which one will think is happening.

I'm not gonna bother but even if everyone in the industry and greed with Everything Changes sensors.

Yes as huge problem.

Who must work towards it the solution might mean moving on very successful male bosses to equalise pay and the Promise if you're doing a good job that's its own form of discrimination at this point isn't a long-term thing that's not what I heard from James saying I also said female bosses were part of this to of the only way to address the paper quality would be have more female bosses which means some of those mailboxes moving well at this.

There's a whole bigger issue about how long people stay in the top jobs and and you know what how quickly that rotation happens and is that a good thing or a bad thing for a creative industry? I would argue that you know more rotation is a good thing to keep you like crazy when you will alive there's also this problem also exists with people of colour.

You know this is I know I think there's also an issue around there because I agree with Jayne that just had a new child and she doesn't want to work for.

Tyne and Wear a small company that has very limited funds and we can't afford to have a head of development that works full-time so that's that's a situation that works for both of us know if you would if you were to inspect our company you could argue that there's a massive gender pay gap because because me as a male is working full-time and Jess and D who don't want to work full-time are there for earning less and therefore.

There's a massive disparity there, but we've actually actually hire people that want to be more flexible because I don't want to work full time and and so sometimes these figures can can be slightly misleading but we do need to make sure that we interrogate them properly you make sure there aren't problem and anything is what they think these these surveys spark conversations and that's inherently a good thing but I don't think it's a simple as there is discrimination going on or there's a definition going to be I think there are lots of lots of reasons and causes about why we have these imbalances and you need to come interrogate all of them and find out if there are some advantages along the way it will be seated figures again in the summer.

I think they'll be more women at that because actually the problem at looking at that League table last summer it was actually worse last year that it had been the year before whenever then kicked off surely this summer is going to show a few more high earning women on that list but also there are some subtle points about this out at the highest only woman who was Claudia Winkleman what what is interesting is that she is she has a degree from Cambridge she is a highly intelligent woman, but that isn't the reason she's paid such an enormous sum of money by the BBC so she isn't Andrew Marr or a big brained man although the above it highly intelligent women who work for BBC she is doing light entertainment brilliantly but the blokes who are earning loads of money tend to be valued for their mega brains and I think that's another thing that is probably going to have to change will be good news for me at the media.

Podcast is so the pieces he would struggle to find anyone of any gender who do this job for my salary.

For the British podcast Awards released this week for the third year running a bit actually called the British podcast Awards powered by Dax I've been told by the producer to say what's that? It's like the Chris Evans show it's just how you say it the nations are announced in a livestream by the cast of no such thing as a fish it would miss your day been too slow to submit there in 3 before the deadline for they won't nominated but definitely at 6 yesterday morning and I kind of you to mention there any highlights from the nominees apart from will be ready.

Just ghostly fortunately guess.

I don't feel I nominated in the category out for simply have no idea what it means but we weren't we don't give it will have to be going to ring spotlight spotlights diverse ok.

One light bulb ahead of you look really good fun events.

Well.

I'm going to and I'm not present this year, so I get to get drunk so I look forward to seeing you there ok.

Well.

I definitely be the other I've got I do love for cutting fat is probably cuz I love podcast that I don't listen although.

I don't watch much Netflix or Amazon Prime and I certainly won't be watching Apple TV or indeed Disney plus, but I do I did listen to Dear Joan and jericha, and they have rightly been nominated.

No.

And it's absolute on a dill unadulterated challenging quite upsetting filth which I liked driving soundtrack France Germany highlights looking at the list of big story seems to be Joseph how it seems that he's nominating a lot stiffer categories and he's for his most nominated.

I'm looking at an earlier to go.

Episodes an amazing podcasts is beautifully produced and and and I hope that he picks up some Guns as a result and I was quite surprised that brexit cast is surprisingly absent or I think that brexit cost the big break up because it the year I don't know the answer but it feels like there's from where I'm standing.

That's the thing that everyone's talking about that's the kind of the Polo or the cereal of the year and I was coming expecting to see that being being shortlisted Mustafa categories may be there be too busy trying to figure out what the withdrawal agreement says whatever hoping I can kick the can down the road when their medication but whatever Fallout war never even though you know I haven't seen them on the list but but there cos as ever this award ceremony create causes me great anxiety because it shows me that there's lots of stuff that I'm not listening to this really great and I really don't want to describe two because my podcast list is just growing exponentially and I haven't got enough hours in a day.

I like dum end of days as well the Five Live podcast about Waco which I thought was brilliantly done and and what what what's at the other great thing about forecast is it tells you stories? You didn't you hadn't heard and I didn't know about the British victims at Waco I just didn't know I don't know why I didn't know but I didn't know and I found myself completely immersed in that.

I thought that was really really good with the level of detail as well.

I guess they just wouldn't get in a 5 minute with your water on the 18th of May we will bring you news of them when they happen and Dax by the way through as is an advertising dynamic advertising insertion type podcasting company but also backed by global who are the centre of Alnwick story in fact global have been given the go-ahead to take over billboard advertising company exterion Media that comes hot on the heels of their purchased last year of two other out of home advertising firms primesight and outdoor Plus

Who is a done deal? But it wasn't actually it is now and global are now 35% of the UK outdoor market at Fred's.

Why do you think global so keen on billboards spending a lot of money into getting a Qashqai now it makes sense that they uniting outdoor spaces age is an interesting space.

I was reading an article recently about how football advertising can be made dynamic nails when you see on a TV programme you can change it depending on what country or you're watching that football show on site hoardings around it makes a 1 Brand in one country in a different brand of the different country and you know with the advent of more technology meaning that you can put 15 different adverts and 1 billboard it seems like this is becoming more and more lucrative space.

So you know it will be interesting to see what they do all of that and if they are now going to be the people that that effectively Brando country, but separated them if they want to spend some money in this space, then there's obviously a business for it awkward thing Jane is there there.

Buses for example contracts to plaster radio stations across buses which are much frequented by BBC sounds magic I've seen at 4 at the moment absolute you know if your power all the BBC does it just stick in the throat, but you've got to give a load of money to Global to advertise your own radio station.

It is going to because you do sometimes wonder when global I going to stop buying things I've been rather make a bit of BBC ones to buy a couple of garden chairs.

They can have it mean that you'll be driving along whatever it is annual debit.

There will be a ginormous Nick Ferrari Maserati doing that.

So you can actually drive down the M40 and see a big poster of Ian Dale same as is on right now, then I suppose internal markets BBC sounds.

Gif global a lot of money to advertise on a billboard going to take that money.

There is a question about the inventory Leon Use inventory, but that's not good thing for Global if people aren't buying the ad space and having to put the right stuff on earth that suggests that they probably shouldn't put that much out to me, so well.

I'm sure that like you know did they say that there's a kind of little bit of hedge between the two businesses and and we won't necessarily see this being used if it's not very good use of space.

That's just going to be useful Iain Dale adverts and Nick Ferrari advert and and and some wire by Imagine that this is a different business here is something we don't usually do on the programme recommend a book BBC Newsnight presenter Emily maitlis is on the press junket trail at the moment talking about airhead good title be in perfect art of making news.

It's a sort of autobiography of you had a better Jane

You about her regime of hair hair styling she has her hair done by a retired Albanian army general who comes around on a motorbike three times a week.

It's just something I'll never forget about Emily maitlis good if we could I am I would like to be the book.

I don't pay for it for those things.

I'll wait to grab off-the-shelf at work Emily or you can just send me a copy that woman is it actually thinking about to pay thing Emily was involved into the kicking off the whole BBC Woman's thing when she retweeted a tweet that I treated and from then on what would life is going to cause the movement that sort of thing of events not especially her pay was the subject of quail of controversy.

I think that has been changed now very different world in terms of her profile too and she is now heading up, Newsnight

Saudi women pretending she didn't have a brain which is effectively what she does when she's on Strictly that's not a criticism over.

Its just an observation, but they're actually are on there as it seems to me especially since brexit as a tranche of women across current affairs who are bacon value didn't in waveapps.

They weren't I'm thinking people like Laura kuenssberg account so I think the moment are firing on all cylinders, then more interesting.

They're getting better inside they tell stories in a better way and and I think they're the best in the business.

I think as you mentioned Laura kuenssberg, Kirsty Wark and how many metres are all doing exceptional work and and far out, but I would argue with a fire out but not to pick them against each other a bit far out going there be a male counterparts at the moment, but not just been in the UK I think what Maggie haberman is doing but New York Times in the us know she is now pretty much the face of a New York Times right now and it really demonstrates that the art of storytelling through journalism.

Is at the moment feels like it's being absolutely nailed bye bye that that side of the outside of the gender balance and Katya Adler are both incredibly fluent articulate speakers who can make really dense complicated issues seem relevant to people like me who do have an interest but I'm by no means an expert and they're both really come to life on brexit cast as well which is the format that allows them to be human and funny and it's a generalisation, but I wonder sometimes with the great BBC Mail political editors were I'm glad they're not in charge at the moment as I'm not sure they have been quite so light at night on their feet in terms of the verbal dexterity required at the moment and I'll also certainly not me know you're right now.

He's he's a legend John he was in big gun politics guide 5 live for a long time so I do I do to cheer them and Emily's book.

I will read it.

I'm sure it's going to be interesting.

Read a review the one you sent me that somebody wasn't quite enough about her personal.

They would actually I would say she's because various things that have happened to defend her right.

Why should she brings her personal story we Don't Demand that stuff from men usually or not if men in a similar high roll.

High-profile intelligence intellectual roll.

They're not usually required to I'm I'm telling about their disagreement 100 most obvious comparison, but I meant to give more of your personal style and surprising why the hell should I and so I quite admire her for not not going there actually a little bit more.

Because there is just time for a media quiz this week.

It's entitled the things spokespeople say I have 3 quotes from the past 7 Days of media news, you just buzzing with the name when you know who said it and if what they said there's any relation to reality best of 390 genuine new to this so you buzzing with your name when you know the answer to join you will say as you say it's ok.

He is quote number one we regularly review what is an offer we offer a wide range of titles to give our customers plenty of digital and print options for News business and leisure Reading material associated with no longer being offered to customers and as they enter that that plane cabin.

It was about to follow wasn't bft page we have to publish a full.

Page saying that the reason was because they gritting unflattering things about British Airways and BA say no we just review all media content periodically and for some reason the Financial Times is no longer suitable material.

I'm sorted with the ft on it, but yeah, because the series press spokesperson number to Bugsy Malone when you know the answer these panels are triggered algorithmically and our system sometimes make the wrong call YouTube Tyson do you do you want the story is about them like saying that when you search for something that you get given fact checking information specifically from Wikipedia but is now from imagine.

It's like come on walk caught fire this will not happen.

Is there at there are conspiracy theories online and YouTube have automated procedures to take that stuff down fake news so that if you're Googling it it automatically directs you to a page which basically says take your medicine.

Have a look at this and think about it before you watch it but they accidentally recommended 911 conspiracy theories and because it's because they held with a plume of smoke and thought it was 9/11 a spokesperson number 3 basil beginning when you know the answer.

I'm sure many of us will have made a mistake at work unfortunately for me Jane Jane yes, it is.

Yes, so I need to learn to Jane Secker during the context about renting and I am I often find myself in the simple to Jane Secker engineering somebody who could be my child and they just end up it signed you done something about it the missing.

And it's a it's a generational and he was put that but the young woman whose protester had every right to have heard her say there was it right to apologise it probably was right in this instance.

I have to let myself.

I've just taken the wrong tax use the wrong tone.

I feel so I guess I genuinely do have some do this idea sometimes when you're live interview somebody you get it wrong very good work for us know you are the winner of little girl that is it for a show for today.

My thanks again and 4 as I'll be back in a couple of weeks, but next week on this people be another edition of the media business podcast in which the team will be talking sales so stay subscribed for that.

I've been on man-u Summerhill and the media podcast is a PPM production until next time.

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