Read this: Scottish commercial radio with Colin Kelly and Adam Findlay

Coming up this week will focus on commercial radio in Scotland and dissect the latest on local nurse with Colin Kelly and Adam Finlake also James cridland has his latest thoughts on the future development of the industry are there more radio moments with David Lloyd radio today's Roy Martin is here to look at the big stories of the week and with another busy week in radio have my how do you do yes, it has been busy.

It's been a roller coaster ride so far 2019 in radio.

I lose track we weren't here last week because the Round Table but what happened tell me what's happened to I forgot this so much.

I couldn't tell me what about when we found out on Monday about capitals schedules and they're putting Roman Vic and son EJ on across the network or capital and breakfast and then they'll still there local drivetime show.

The mix of drivetime presenters staying on drivetime and breakfast teams moving to drive time which we weren't sure whether they were going to put coloured double and triple headed shows on at drive, but they are they doing this cos I drive time its historic Lee one person reading at the travel news, so these capital stations are going to have 3 people like his new formatted drive time on most on some of them which is good that the breakfast guys.

I've still got a gig but then the drive time guys or girls of course guides covering both sexes before anybody starts around on the rear so yeah, it's certainly handpicked each one Robin saying right all the breakfast teams to drive Wigan and pick those people who either want to do the show are available to do the show are we think sound better than whoever is doing the drive time show us up an interesting approach and that will see when we are a couple years time when when the rules change again and I think it's something we've talked about on This podcast few weeks ago.

We were really sure I'm still.

Really sure I'm about ownership of the different brands and what that means about having to do a local show so in Wales are globalone capital South Wales and heart, North Wales and communicorp heart South Wales and capital North Wales for all four of those are going to have a local program.

This is something wasn't sure and I said probably a dozen emails back and forth between Ofcom and I spoke to people within the reggae group and nobody knew the answer as to the question can everybody network even though they don't have the same old is so I can communicate take 24/7 content from global station and often didn't didn't answer and I've still got the email try that answered but I think the official answer to that is a radio station can do what it wants so long as it can prove it still in control of at least some of its output.

So yeah, I think they sticking with the fact that they can't network 24/7.

Otherwise than Wales would have had one Kapil Sharma one.

Hot shower drip tank should we were on last we did it touching it on the Round Table but obviously Bower buying UK R&D and then on the same day.

I had the link celador a wireless groups point being put into hold separate from Bower so willing to hold separate again that we who knows how long this might go on a wheel of Halton we have two years it lasted last time with Global and gmg a hopefully this one will be a little bit more simpler be a case of 500.

What you doing in there, so what we doing this and look we've already told them so there's no issue.

Maybe CMA say yep, you know what that's fine.

Carry on and maybe they'll take about 6 months but who knows nobody knows at this stage and it is different to the global purchase of gmg in that what the CMA looking at is advertising revenue share rather than audience share necessarily on the link so that a wireless.

Local that you know that the sizable groups, but they're not massive route on the scalar.

Gmg were so it doesn't add significant competition which is probably why they have got rid of a couple stations on the south coast which they're probably didn't need to under old rules but because wave of course come by Barry such a beast and south Coast it probably takes a large percentage of the radio advertising plate on the south coast so giving away a couple of local stations might match that if they're if they're comparing like-for-like as I tell you the CMA country music Association country is big is the new big thing in UK radio because what I have one coming on when you have to come on at once I feel sorry for Chris country.

That's been banging the country drum for the last 2 or six or seven years at suddenly global launch of the playlist shall we call it on the app at smooth country which is Gran love Smith country are just waiting.

Smooth jazz to arrive now, but yeah and then power come along with nobody nobody thought this was coming over the country Hits radio on 15 local DAB Multiplex is a more to come in the future as well.

So they're building this is there a national country music station for the UK which is something we have never had before assuming it obviously reaches a large percentage of the UK can become a national station, so yeah countries is the new country is the new what that you've had a very popular as we saw c2c obviously last weekend.

It was massive massive event in London as a buyer already got a country station in Northern Ireland and one in Suffolk that they just bought from links group, so I guess country hits takes over those as well at some point.

Well.

I don't know the hits of on taking over Hallam FM yet.

So you know true and Planet Rock exists along with absolute classic rock so that was very good at keeping their similar brands running.

Same time so who knows what's going on about watch this space are talking of Barry Northern Ireland's well an interesting Ofcom breach this week with cool FM and downtown they basically had a presumably a freelancer in to do the news while they all went to the Barra Awards a couple of years ago and well the newsreader basically said that a man who was accused of murdering had actually done the murder which later transpired out that he pleaded guilty to it, but at the time of, consider that to be an inaccurate news report and had two people Indian street.

Talking this week about contempt of court rules and just cannon basic law in journalism.

I must admit I did look at the the Ofcom report and it took me a few minutes to work out why it was an error.

Obviously journalist looking anything yet.

That's wrong.

You shouldn't do that, but I love to the reading the man who killed Colin Horner in front of his three-year-old son has been charged with.

That will be skilled in men always say yeah, that's ok if you missed, but I'm not a journalist.

I just write about radio and you've not had legal refresher with the legal refresh report channel is better called Paul but it happened at the same time at the bar Awards were taken place so I wonder why the rest of the team wear that particular day.

Yeah and interesting response from Barrow to Ofcom that were basically saying you know if it subsequently transpires that the pleads guilty eau is found guilty then we went in breach because the report was accurate kind of it'll be right at some point at which I think better of her long barrel.

Had a bit of criticism for perhaps not holding the hands up straight away and and admitting that it was a clear clear mistake you come into 5 Live Phil Williams will be leaving in May he's gonna be replaced on The Week night Late Show by Sarah Brett sandfields, Beano 5 live for 18 years as lot of lot of love for Phil on Twitter

This week as well everyone from the Simon Mayo to be a massive authors and do we know why he's leaving? Is it his decision to go and no idea? I just didn't read the news at five live.

I don't know what is that inside hip pain right side smooth moves buildings this week into their shiny new news UK home.

They went on about it quite a lot on it.

I will see the comments from listeners and people getting a bit fed up of them.

Talk about it on and tweet about it all the time, but they do look very nice so Studios what are there is no school radio rule that says nobody cares about what's going on behind the microphone and you shouldn't really say I've just had a biscuit or I've just moving to new studio whatever it is two people care.

Obviously not by the reaction on Twitter we care radio audio week.

It's coming up in my plans for that been announced as can be the radio festival is going to be young Arias this can be the

TuneIn conference Skinner podcast Awards it's nice of the trying to push everything all together and make this big splash for a week.

It's good for a week.

It is it's a shame.

It's just industry stuff because what we need a new care.

Thing is a radio week where everybody in the industry shout about radio together rather than each individual company doing it occasionally wouldn't think that they did it in a in Australia couple years ago.

I think I'd radio taiso radio week would be good if it involves some kind of the consumer activity.

Don't you think yeah, and I think some of it like the European Stefano I've I've not actually been to any other but you've been a couple of radio conferences in Europe haven't you and they kind of they get radio stations involved a bit more shadow Talbot in addition.

I just an idea spring into my head will be good if we could do something a public-facing maybe one day who knows you're full of good ideas tells about the good idea that everything's been praising you for this.

Yeah, so this was because a lot of people being made redundant of being put at risk of redundancy.

They may not be employed by global and communicate within the next couple of months.

I thought it wouldn't it be nice to be able to get a list of those people and give them to the people who are still employing people in ready, aw that's not just other radio stations and commercially under BBC of course but independent production houses on digital agencies people like that at it be good if I could just go on the website sale all these people at talented people at global and communicate looking for work and I might just have the prefer alive had a couple of radio station owners get in touch and say yeah, that'll be really good if you could maybe send me the list I let me know when it's ready.

So if you are out of work, shall we say within the next couple of months let me know about it.

Just drop me an email Roy.

Martens irradiated a.co.uk will add you to the list which is now live by the way up on Radio today.

Could eat you.

2 / people excellence grand idea we wholeheartedly silly you and your kindness for providing a service I'm all heart.

Oh, no, wait a minute.

You're all TCR FM going to Scotland's next get on the train alright.

Yeah, let's go up and have a Scottish dish before we can I mention we have at radiotoday Scott on the Twitter which will their tweets stuff about Scotland which has done the last 4 years indeed, so if you want to do follow Scottish only radio news or extra Scottish radio news then a sneaky plug for at radiotoday Scott-Lee dual radio smart answer virtual director from broadcast bionics combined social media messaging photos audio and videos with intelligent camera control and automated graphics welcome to the social studio at bionic.

Co.uk

Is the radio Today programme we can bring in some guests to help us look in detail the WhatsApp them all these recent changes in the industry mean for Scotland Colin Kelly is here at consultant former presenter area Radio Scotland Clyde 1 BBC Radio Scotland hi Colin I have to get Adam Finley with us as well managing director of new wave Media owners of the original 106 Aberdeen Saturday MDF central FM in Stirling also worked at Radio Forth and tay and northsound so well travelled in radio in Scotland at him.

Thank you for giving it to see if we can release each other we can all hear each other via the magic of technology, but I have you all in my imagination.

This is the future she could be anywhere talking to anybody and it all sounds like you're in the same place.

So it's a big news in Scotland this week.

Even made it to a Holyrood at the Paisley MSP George Adam he was asking a question that first Minister's Questions this week, and this is what he put to Nicola Sturgeon

Global radio who operate heart capital and smooth radio in Scotland plan to create a virtual Radio network to compete with BBC Radio 1 and Radio 2 using local licences to do so does the first minister agree with me that or cold must become involved and keep local commercial radio in Scotland local Christmas supporter oven and fan of local radio so I think it's a place in is broadcasting it environment is very very important say hope of course it would take into account all of the very reasonable point that it George Adam has just made some of the detail in a little while, but is there anything Scottish Parliament could do with it even if you wanted to listen to Colin and broadcasting is a reserved matter to Westminster to the Scottish Parliament can certainly make his voice had switch.

It's attempting to do but it doesn't have any power so what's the point in talking about it? Well, I think the point is if the UK radio industry regulator.

Refuses to listen to the Scottish Parliament or refuses to acknowledge what they're saying and what they're saying is that they should review these recent decisions and that they should place any other and changes or reduction in hours Bishops Place all that on hold until they've reviewed what's going on and I think if they ignore the voice of the Scottish Parliament in the voice of the first minister and at the moment the voice of large swathes of our industry people will be entitled to question why the regulator ignored all that and used as the basis of these decisions consultation exercises which at times attracted as few as 18 or maybe 67 responses at Adam you you're obviously run some stations.

You presume mainly the consultation was going on did you get involved with it.

We did we got very heavily involved in it through both are directly contributing to all the verse consultations, but also we are very active and engaged with radio centre at our radio centre membership as well so we submitted on.

Number of responses all of them were supportive of for the deregulation and them the reason behind that is because at the end of the day we run a commercial businesses and their we want the free freest widest possible flexibility in order to run those businesses now having said all that all radio stations choose to actually you know operate pretty much traditionally has read your has always operated so even even even before deregulation.

We could have gone to a more network programming and more syndication had with children to do that.

We take a very different position from global and Barrow witches and we're still very much believing in localness and that's just that sets us apart from from the bigger guys, so and will always support for the deregulation and the widest possible freedom available to all of us, but we as a business will choose to continue to apply our business as we see fit and that maintains around.

Supposed to be cynical about it as a business owner if you want to plan an exit strategy where you going to sell then I suppose if you're able to network your stations with us whatever you like with that 21 hours from England then that makes your business more saleable.

I mean at the end of the day any any business or organisation looking to purchase another business will look at the strategic value, but that business brings with it and deregulation.

I will certainly contribute to that, but that's not a motivation for supporting the regulation.

I actually completely agree with a lot of Commons points actually in them and I think the school of Parliament have been late to the party on this one mean.

You know you know deregulation has been an ongoing journey that started much earlier than the more recent announcements and I think we're the Scottish Parliament and for that matter of come across the UK have been slightly at neglectful is enabling radio operators to apply for a friend licences over last 10 years we've

Not been able to grow our businesses and not being able to grow our businesses has resulted in us having to sort of explore economies of scale and that's not very exciting frankly not been very well can use yeah, I know that's something you've been quite vocal about Colin as well.

Should we start seeing somebody is licences being a walk rewarded exactly because I don't understand exactly the kind of operator that should be encouraged in it industry needs and Adam experienced this over regulation in the 90s when srhr.

Andy map could have done a lot more than they were allowed to at the time of day been afforded the same leniency the global I get a know if if actually tell her what's to run an app from Knightsbridge with Roman Kemp on it all day.

That's absolutely fine by me and you can use a national DAB station to do that as well.

I'm concerned about the use of local spectrum local right licences, which will renew next year when he has stated that he wants to build a national network meanwhile, let's take long.

You've got stations like Kool London who used to scramble around on top of tower blocks to try and build that cultural connection with the people in their communities no sidelined on an app.

You've got people like resonance FM don't buy an overly regulated Community Radio structure and Ashley Talbot response is wall-to-wall Roman Kemp on Capital not just through London which is by the way losing its local message well.

He's imposing that on a whole rest of the UK and I think a regulator needs to look at that the deregulation is being wrongly applied but in terms of where we are.

We we rolled out local licences historic Lee over the last 40 of years rather than national ones.

We only have one national FM licence, so it's not this early this regulators to blame for that had we had some pop FM national stations in the 90s then perhaps we will have got to where we are not all that requires from dcms and when these format change.

Questel came in at the same time from global and communicor who by the way I supposed to be competitive against each other in markets such as central Scotland when all those format change requests were received or, should I woke up and realised what was going on and how they were being used and they should have placed these format change request on hold until they could have a proper.

Look at what was going on because this may comply with the letter of the legislation, but it sure as hell does not comply with the spirit over or what we seen from the from dcms.

There is the actually they vast off come to get on with it and when they finally get round to finding some time in Parliament whether that will happen after brexit or not.

They're gonna actually take deregulation further so stations able to flip music formats as well that they can't the moment so I think for all your saying it's all valid points but we're probably going to go further rather than row backwards.

I think that is a great shame and I think it is no coincidence that you see the the the the fracture.

Happening across the UK with the Demise of local Communities local identities foodbanks teenagers disenchanted disconnected to that the rest of society local radio has a role to play here and it's not happening.

Can I employ just interject you just Justin in in this of the background to 22 lot of water cooling saying which is a latte feeling.

I think he'll buy many stakeholders who are looking onto the current direction of travel for commercial radio particular local radio where we find ourselves at this very disappointing in balance.

Is is the FM licensing over the last 10 years has been the exclusive preserve of community radio and there has been his belief that somehow community reach you was going to fill this gap.

That's been left by local radio and I don't worry about that because community radio by its nature is vulnerable.

It's it's very limited and what it can do in terms of firm.

BA sustainable business in a lot of them find it very difficult to survive from one month for the next so I think what's happened to the last 10 years is as these bigger networks of look for economies of scale.

What Ofcom have not been doing is looking at best use of FM spectrum and that's left business is like mine in a very very difficult place.

We can't go forward on FM and dab and the economics of DAB are still in a 5 + years away from being an economical viable platform for a business perspective and so we left in no man's land that wear this restriction of suddenly come to the attention of the Scottish Parliament Collins write to me.

Ne sont des vols Paris they're not there.

They can be a very angry and you look vocal voice in in all this but there is an opportunity for the Scottish Parliament to Levy a lot of pressure on Ofcom and and look at whether there's still some Beenie best use for FM spectrum mean if if what happened.

Did Scotland and dumberer float follow a similar route to Global is going to leave a number of areas without any presents of local radio let alone reduced errors and I just think that to massive imbalance.

I just don't think you know that that that even the voice of all that that they've been thinking about a rich dynamic colourful marketplace meaning of values local radio it cares about local radio and you have one operator who is being allowed pretty much to do whatever he likes and you have another like Adam who's who's trying to trying to invest in that the output are doing a good job with her and he's he stuck his hand in it's not right but you're having added on to talk about original 106.

I think you're reaches the best.

It's ever been now joined best at 85000 Central in its TSA is beating both capital and hot as well, so by playing the local card You're Winning audience.

It's just that you have smaller licences, then perhaps some of you boys have yeah.

I mean I mean you know what we're able to punch.

And hold a room where where where are afforded licences, but why am I not allowed one in Edinburgh why is there not a second player in Inverness you know? Why is there? Not a second player in Morayshire you know and and so forth you know I think you know it was called absolutely right and in the direction of travel that the eat that he sees this all going but an advert we'd all agree the problem and all of this is that it leaves a massive $40 a massive gap and absence of choice and that were off, fallen down and dcms if you want to be the pin it back to their policies.

You know and their belief has been let's hold back FM from commercial radio give it exclusively to Community Radio in the hope that that somehow Drive DAB listening and gets his cat switch off date.

What's which other day, which they want to call the night everybody seems to think it is an interim technology will be remembered as the mini disc of broadcasting nobody's more prostrate.

It's by the lack of growth on DAB than me.

I mean are you know a lot of my stations would be in acres.

Suitably healthier place if div take up and been far more quicker over last 20 years and I don't like any of us when we got into DAB when I was in srh.

Back in those in those in those stampede heaters at work.

Thought that we'd be here 20 years on with the ab struggling to get beyond 50% in Scotland you know we were hoping for something far more impactful than that it has been frustrating for everybody including ourselves in a week.

We look forward to more DAB traction and that the quicker that happens the more commercially viable be yeah, I mean you're busy doing something right in Aberdeen I think Originals audiences doubled in 6 years.

I'm alright so it at the local card is working is it will enable the local card is working it it is viable and and we push you everyday philosophy from global and Byron that's fine in and I respect their their own philosophies and they they want to charge your phone hunt down really want Andrea to audiences and neck and they believe networking to be the solution to that then I

Think they should I believe in free free capital about capitalism a minute snacks the charts the market but I've not been afforded the same growth pattern.

I've not been afforded the same ability to set up local radio stations in local areas and serve local audiences.

That is not been afforded to me or anyone else that wanted to get into that market and then that's that where the unfairness comes in that is why you are the frustration that you know that being felt by everybody and the score of Parliament I think I've only just woken up to it and last year frankly neither.

This is been a journey for last 10 years and they've been absolutely obsessed with television if you look at the 2011 communications bill that the Scottish Parliament drop by Blair who second attempt roller skates me but you was the architect of 47 pages of the communications and broadcasting bill from the Scottish Parliament in 2011 not one mention of radio not one not to mention of it.

Not even a page dedicated to it.

They've been completely and utterly obsessed with television in Scotland and then you know you're not the blind side comes all these very unpopular policies.

You know and left a very very difficult marketplace which which I think was was never the intention of the of the legislation if the Scottish Parliament had known I think it would have said a lot more a lot sooner and I think I'm famous to them.

I think what the F dcms had known the the outcome then you feed understood how this legislation would be applied.

I think they would have had taken a very different view on it Ofcom is operating in my view.

Well outside its remit on this loss of local radio and at the moment.

It's heart and capital and smooth how much of what they were doing was actually very local anyway or very little but you know what do we lose this spectrum that that's what I'm concerned about if people wanted put Roman Kemp on you know if if that's what I actually have a wants to do.

That's fine or lime.

Is the other people who do want to do what Adams doing on on the local spectrum should be given an opportunity, so these licences these FM licences should not automatically rollover.

They should be poop out to the market and if I do my knees and elbows anyone else Channel 4 for example if they think they can operate a local FM licence for London or Glasgow or Edinburgh or whenever then they should be allowed the opportunity to bed for it.

That's what I'm objecting to actually Tara has said he wants to build national networks to compete with Radio 1 and 2.

He should not be allowed to use local FM spectrum in order to achieve a termite baiting ready want to radio too.

I think if you look at some of Bowers big stations in Scotland so forth and Clyde and tay Noor turn mfr.

They're all number one in the market there already beaten Radio 1 and Radio 2 which similar cities in England Radio 2 who's going to be the market Leader so the Scottish card is working in Edinburgh and Glasgow and Dundee and Aberdeen

32 million lbs investing in more content for Scotland I'm not sure how much Ashley Talbot on his team understands, Scotland because they would know that they're already beating Radio 1 in Radio 2 here.

So why they taking away local programming and giving us more Roman Kemp and Marvin Humes and Jamie Theakston a route to get these guys are absolutely fine but if somebody thinks that they can run an operation with Scottish Talent or Manchester Talent or whoever.

They should be given the opportunity to bed for these local FM licences.

We have to stop this automatic rollover for somebody who has publicly said he doesn't want it Adam to English voices on Scottish radiojar with people in Scotland as and kind of perception that it does but I'm guessing you don't think so no, I don't I don't I'm not convinced that top you have to have a Scottish accent to attract a Scottish audience.

I think it's all the boat review relevance enjoy your content and your connectivity to that market.

You know you not being able to talk about where you were last night what you saw what happened to you in the local supermarket that the look on this is going to be the element that that that that rhymes with people I am not convinced that you have to have a y e e Scottish dialect to attract it a Scottish audience directly assess such an but I do think that again Corbett absolutely right again.

You know the has been this some charged towards automatic rollovers and of course that is a is a very thorny subject for a lot of people because they've invested in a tens of millions in India view the last 20 years and ambulance rollover was the incentive in order to stay on DAB we would not have the situation that we have today if that role ever had not been in Play for loss of 10:15 in years that that that that that has been you know you'd find a lot more stations with what they called decoupled the analogue signal from DAB more so in the last.

15 or 4 years but of course you know that preservation and that protectionist mentality of getting a rollover and Sting on DAB in the hope that one day it's all going to come good has has been the the charge that we've been on and I do think I could ever adding to the point of AFM licensing my big frustration has been the almost like confetti frankly handing out of community licences across the UK which is completely and utterly dominated the last remaining use of FM spectrum arguably those of the areas that we could have actually be making a big difference in had there been a more balanced approach by Ofcom dcms weather looked at the FM licensing that was available and said you know right this might be a community Radio station market or it might be a commercial radio station market and let's see what comes in.

There was not a balanced approach to the usage of FM spectrum and that's that that's what's left the number of operators including the ones that the power of the Scoop top him in if you look at links cellar door.

UK R&D and the portfolio of wireless stations they were still in the same place in England mean a very limited FM groove for them left.

You know so you know they've been at an impasse and not been able to grow their businesses because they got the same problem stands.

I've had a course the one remaining big difference here in Scotland as we don't have BBC local radio we have Nations radio Uno here than in the nation BBC Scotland radio, so you know what local radio landscape is really important to local Communities really important to local Communities Adam I wonder as an operator that a member of radiocentre.

Whether you feel your voice and and some of the points you raising here.

It is being heard by radiocentre.

Especially since as you said about purchases mean all they've got more seats at the table now with those new groups.

I bought is is radiocentre.

Just global and Bauer can it exist going forward if it's dominated by them and how do you get your voice a cross if if radiocentre ceases to exist in that.

Lobbying former I have to say that we've been a very active and engaged member of radio Centre and it is one of those membership organisations where you really do you get in as much as you get out soon as much as you put in and the eye-fi find them very open to listening to everybody's views and I find that they have taken a very in partial preposition in the past and I know it's not shed bye bye everybody but I have to be honest as I sit there and I'm actually on the policy group as well.

We meet four times a year and I do feel listen to I feel that they are interested in what I have to say and I feel that they try to feed in in a very diminishing landscape of operators the views and thoughts of everybody it.

Didn't is got a future.

Do you think it will get to the point where it's just global and Barrett that top table on the board and they'll say when we don't wanna play with each other.

I think we do have a future and the important role.

Byron global generally as as in as organisations, don't get on very well mean if you go back to the 90s where you had this other than mighty rough Bernard's and David Mansfield and Phil Riley landlord.

Need a Jimmy Gordon the least these chaps you know sat in in in rooms and worked at what was best for the radio sector enormous put their own and bushings aside to work out.

What was best for Radio as an industry as a sector venli with then get their jackets off and have a scrap a boat which which licence still going to bed for Byron global don't do that.

They they don't operate in a way that's best for the radio sector they operate first and foremost in a direction that best for the run individual organisations who has been a few casualties as a result of that and Ashley would say a lot of the changes that they're bringing in is about improving quality and a few years back now global put in daytime networking Ashley said they weren't 50 great mid Morning presenters.

Are you? Wish? I was I was one of the mediocre at Radio presenters.

Not one that he.

Took off but one that got myself taken off to be honest.

I am absolutely as a lot actually time global have been very good for commercial radio in many ways he operates.

I think he sees himself a little bit like some sort of tech entrepreneur and that is great.

There's been a lot of positive things have come from global that we should all appreciate and be grateful for am I want to quickly talk about news as well.

Obviously this week lots Scottish success at the Irn commercial radio news Awards which is obviously fantastic news how important as we moved to a future where some of the programs can come from anywhere and we don't worry about going to do that in Scotland on not yet.

How important is that local news and does it have a future in terms of quality local news for the least we write as when I cut my teeth with a huge part.

What got me into radio something still enjoy listening to in the radio.

I had some wonderful reporting a crossbar and global and the other networks as well as great to see it being recognised if we take off, and

Global and communicore at the Awards then part of this will mean more investment in local news.

I'll believe it when I hit it and as far as the dangerous if there isn't any decent news that fits with the Brandon and the chemist showbiz nature of the station, then it kind of losers.

It's important.

You know if the biggest story in town is known as a pensioner gone missing and that doesn't really fit into showbiz Breakfast Show Zoe Adams talking about as well as more than just a look at the new the 2-minute News Bulletin it's the character of the service.

It's when he is part of Aberdeen gets flooded and they do wall-to-wall coverage when brexit happens and there are food shortages in medical shortages in Blockheads at the port Adam can rule out in a local content you can do wall-to-wall coverage on at they can do flood appeals that can collect toys for kids and all that stuff that local radio does so well.

It's about affinity and I'm not sure that Roman Kemp and Jamie Theakston how much affinity with the law.

Claudine season Scotland at depends, I guess whether the audience is what that affinity or whether they want the celebrity cos that's the culture with moved to over the last 15 hours.

It's expensive but it's investment and it gets audiences and you know that's what creates the connectivity with with people in your area in a Bon Jovi saying she just as good Henry due to as it does on original but what defines original is the fact that we can absolutely get to the granular day-to-day lives of local people without sending Parochial but sending connected in her and there still a massive appetite for good local radio.

We've just not had the opportunity to expand your career deuchars local radios been prevented from expanding one of them are audiences as you write the appointed hour doing very well Originals not on DAB and yet.

It's got record audiences.

It's something will keep a watching brief on and at some point in Isaac as d.b.

Lewis into economic viability will keep up keep an eye on it.

But term you know that that look on the snack connectivity done done well, and I'm very lucky to have excellent professional teams that that deliver that content to a very high standard of demonstrating that it works and we're going to continue to do that at this week.

We heard the des Clarke is opposite of Capital Breakfast for a long time is some moving to Global from communicable.

I'm going to be doing hard drive in Scotland, nana.

You been quite bocal online about that.

He's going to a competitor is he he's going to only that but that was announced capital Scotland tweeted at all the good luck to him and actually named exactly where he was going and all I'll say on that is that these two radio stations are required by law to compete against each other and that is very unusual but they compete against each other in the advertising market not necessary for all you do indeed in 1 Breakfast Show hosts moved to another and competing drivetime show I would suggest that would be fairly made.

Can you use I would impact on the local advertising market and it is very unusual in that kind of environment for one station to name the other.

It's going to until wish them.

Well.

I don't think I've ever seen that before right answer can a wrap this up.

We we started right out the Beginning about the parliament of what they could do and evolution of ECU no in Scotland you run your own hospitals and schools, but not your your broadcast regulation and that's partly I think because of the EU rules so late when they're not going to be in the EU after next week a strong case because the EU would see that you they will only deal with one broadcast regulator for a member state, so that's off, so that's fine, but when we leave the EU that that an argument with no longer stack up so then it would be for the Scottish government to ask the Westminster government to afford them the ability to devolve broadcasting regulations to Scotland and it'll be interesting when they do make that request which I'm sure they will.

I'll be interesting to hear that Westminster government response, I suppose the time of that is all quite interesting if you were cynical because you would suggest that global of been allowed to do what they want to do with these licences now before that happens.

Well.

That would be at up to you if you wanted to be cynical regulators in government in in Edinburgh around London the coast of that the legislators are to the areas that the legislating they tend to be more alive to the issues.

We've got a really good rubbish uplift come Scotland and they're very interested.

What's happening with them read your own Scotland and I think there is a concern shared that we've maybe not been balancing the direction of travel carefully enough and the Scottish Parliament in our life to her.

I'm delighted that George Adams has raised the concerns if I'm being honest that's some and all that and I hope you don't miss the wood for the trees me know and preventing radio stations from trying to operate is not the correct.

Direction allowing more radio stations to serve more market is the correct direction of travel and I hope that we get ourselves into position with a compound sat more fairly and I supposed to be better if we talked a lot about global with better ask a question about our because the new Ofcom approved areas don't really fit with what barrel was stressing in the consultation.

They wanted to do they appeared to be saying they wanted to run a fan all Scotland network all day long, but actually the Ofcom rules mean that can run 21 hours from England if they want but they've got to have 3 hours separate in the South of Scotland to the north of Scotland yeah, I think that's a little bit short sighted it also means.

I mean this is Ludacris it means that if they wanted and she wouldn't do this Radio Forth and because of both considered safer Scotland Radio Forth could call ok in Clydebank with radio Clyde as long as he did 3 hours from Glasgow for Edinburgh you know anybody that understands Scotland will tell you that the division is east west.

Is it really northside so whoever car that one up really didn't understand what they were doing and I don't know what it does sterling fit in the south and Aberdeen in the North in in your stations.

Yeah, the actual interesting thing about the defined Maps is the forest Kingdom FM I'm splitting the middle so if you look at the the maps that were issued by Ofcom central sits in the south and that's fine.

It could have sat nav anybody been happy and either.

I'm kingdoms interesting because Kingdom wait a further understood the the lines correctly it seems to be split right the middle of Fife so I'm not sure I mean if defined Kingdom is in the south, but I think it's because it's based in Kirkcaldy now.

Had it relocated to save St Andrews as a building I wonder if that would been defined to have sat in the North actually so at the end of the day.

I have to be honest I supported by roseview that we should have one area and the reason behind that's because I go back to my out my earlier point which is radio operators should be allowed the widest flexible first choice to ply their trade as they see fit we can talk about the controversy is overt the

Teachings of it and that that attracts are rich in an interesting and colourful the Beat but where we have found ourselves as we have not been balancing the direction of travel with new operators looking to move into these gaps that are being excited by the global in the Barras who are pursuing and see the competition being with you want to review to I see my competition trying to get the largest audience in my local area sometimes.

That's really want and sometimes.

That's why you too but it's not exclusively either of them paraffin a bit cautious historically that you know they haven't changed the names of their Clyde 2 and 42 stations and they've not taken some of the English daytime programming.

Do you think barrel continue to kind of your if it? Was you would you keep Scotland separate from some of the English networking that they doing across the big cities because they're so dominant in the market.

I think I think I will run the risk at that some point where the perception that they're trying to portray to the local audiences that somehow the shop front.

To still very much a local shop fronts but behind it is all this kind of centralised product.

You know as audiences become wiser and become more can have tuned into her technology works.

I I wonder if the woman is a bit global has there been very honest about their direction of travel they've been very transparent and they've been very honest in many respects with me.

We might not like it, but they've been very honest but I've been slightly less transparent about what they've been trying to do the been trying to achieve two things and and the one thing that I've always been brought up with my father as as you all know was was one of the conventional founding fathers of commercial radio.

What are the things that you said that you must never ever lose the trust of your listener and I would be slightly concerned that maybe once or operators are at risk of losing their trust.

They want to be perceived as something that they're not and I would be worried about whether we damage our own sector admin the minute that one of the big players starts being.

Perceived in that manner it and there that big and there that dominant it affect all of us and I would hate to be caught in the slipstream of somebody else's strategy that we never wanted to sign up to in the first place, but it's been fascinated to you both and hopefully with enlightened some of our English lessons in particular about what's going on in Scotland because I think there's at the kind of lack of understanding in the industry that actually there's lot of differences between England and Scotland eating around same but maybe not thanks guys like Santa Colin Kelly consultant.

What do you make about Roy lively? That was that was interesting comments only give it a couple of sound Bites they didn't it was fantastic activate it or Terminator was my favourite that he thinks Ashley if you want to be remembered as the innovator automatic.

Just wait until Bower do what they're doing.

They won't look at actually any model thing Barrow the Big Jet TV

Bration of radiator when they network the 100 plus licences that they now own so yeah interesting and the interest and see what will happen in the future.

I don't know whether Bower will do it in Scotland you know because I'm it's partly because Graham Bryce is obviously from Scotland and he's running the the big city stations now.

I think they'll be easier to do it in England and Cheryl the programs to share a breakfast show I can't see them doing it in Scotland so maybe they'll just network everything they can in Scotland with in Scotland and you have to make an with in England so that is that we saying yeah, I bet you look at the key 103 in its market was not doing very well because of capital and heart and smooth but actually if you look at forth and Clyde and particulars are to big cities in Edinburgh at the Ice Storm in their number one in the market that beating Radio 1 and Radio 2 even so what were they doing differently that key 103 when it existed and was doing it surely was formatted the same same.

Music log same news on the hour, but whatever may be the communities in Scotland orbit Crowder I don't know it's probably should have asked them but the other Edinburgh and Glasgow audience is more proud of their City then perhaps some of the cities in England like I said lack of BBC local radio in the mix as well.

Could tell if you could have affected at all, but it could they could have some issues with it there.

We are well.

If you enjoyed at hearing them.

We hope you did then.

Thank you for listening and atelier buddy else.

You know that tell him I would have listened to that because it was so it was quite lively and We're All Hooked Up in great quality some of us on the ice Tiernan ipdtl.

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That's the end of the advert James cridland the radio futurologist and I'm often asked what the differences between podcasting and radio and I'm increasingly straddling both Industries the answer well podcast is like each other in San Diego that's a Diego Orlando Disney World Florida last week the conference sponsored by himalaya had over 1000 podcasts in attendance every month of third of all us adults listen to podcasting according to an Edison research study, just released.

Podcasting is clearly growing and thriving get podcast is a very aware that there's plenty of space to grow podcasting faces many changes not least the lumbering giant of Spotify we've decided the podcasting is the new Focus and an increasingly sleepy apple who appeared to have well.

Just Giving Up Yet there's overwhelmingly a feeling of comradeship in podcasting different companies talk together with one aim to help everyone increase the median the Rising Tide gathers all ships as they say buy large podcast is speak with one voice keen to promote the medium and happy to share tips for stuff that works some of the information shared a pod first would have been worth many thousands of pounds of consultancy type it there it was available to anyone who paid their tickets and walked into the room the apparent small size of the industry is often used by radio to denigrate it but the often quoted figure 314 million-dollar podcasting earned in 2017 is a bit misleading because that's us ad revenue from the larger agencies.

Only podcasting earn from all kinds of other activities as well from live shows 2 patreon subscriptions and donations podcasting is lots to teach radio revenue diversification for one particularly beneficial as audiences tire of long advertising stops at the podcast Incas also teach radio to speak with one voice Radiohead unprecedented competition at the radio industry continues to fail to work together.

We offer a complicated view of our business to advertisers auto manufacturers are even receiver manufacturers.

We invest headlong in our own poor apps instead of invest in a better one for the industry.

We don't call out the press when they posted another lazy buggles headline upon first.

I didn't see any radio broadcasters, which was a shame because radio you've no idea what you're missing you can get my weekly newsletter to James.

Credit on land and Daily Podcast music pod news.net.

Thank you to the USA TSA

Breaking my normal microphone and until next time keep listening now on the radio Today programme and his microphone always works.

It's David Lloyd Simon Mayo New Show on Sky the radio is 3 hours long.

That's a little bit shorter than the one he hosted this week 20 years ago celebrating 37 hours the last time he was picked on was fantastic and that was the easiest because we finally realised it was all possible between 3 and 6 in the morning this morning when everyone felt nauseous that was really difficult.

Newspaper does not only viewed on the longest broadcast but actually broken the record for the largest number people that I should I drink a broadcast on Red Nose Day in 1999 with the longest ever radio show 4 released it wasn't the time it's 3 years now since we started to build out the second commercial national digital Multiplex and a whole host of new services commentary and opinion because more than welcome to Cheltenham a very good morning to you.

I meant answer so the first.

The very best in live sport 24-7 365 Portal 2 which alongside mellow magic launch this week in 2016, it's still there.

I'd like team talk to 52 which launch from Leeds on the Old Atlantic 252 frequency this week 17 years ago that station lasted just 5 months Geoff love was a prolific British arranger and composer of easy listening music his son wasn't radio and Adrien love died 20 years ago this week LBC 97.3 stereo where news comes first ride alright alright alright, but it's past 11 nightline.

We are going to open the lines talking.

Tom about kids are generalized it quite a few kids listen to Like line under the covers and things at this time of night before their to go to sleep so we thought we'd of the lines and invite anybody but if people phoning on 35 38117 Davidson Weller girl Whitney Houston song with the words of the song and one moment in time before that the candles and a never ending song of love and stuff.

Just 54 known for his time on Capital not least with Anna Raeburn and also LBC Radio 2 BBC local radio and you'll be in 11th of March 2002 and a new BBC national station for first BBC music station in 32 years this isn't just music this is 6 music.

What way to start a radio station Democracy in Action hi welcome this study was going to be happening on this damn.

So what are we going on today for men UK adaptor that burn baby burn of course and well done to all of you about that and lots of other runners red Oasis does Zeppelin but no ashworthy, when is there so Congratulations to them in their cheeky Northern Irish why did you listen in on how I am if you want to get in touch with the series 6 music for the BBC you can do so you can get on the internet.

Have you got one of them? It's like a toaster with such www.bbc.co.uk the Beginnings of BBC 6 music this week in those www-data 17 years ago.

It was originally codenamed network why using the huge BBC Archives of concerts and music interviews to explore music from the 1970s to the 1990s 7 years ago the BBC made its first.

Cast from the new enlarged broadcasting house with transmission by the Burmese section of the world service and that made a fond farewell at last to Bush House it was more than just a building.

I think it was an organism in itself and everyday the night shift would melt away as the sun came up with off and getting have cigarettes on the roof and watch the buildings of the 10:30 come live with the morning sun the building with them stare into action of the first editors came in the editorial meetings happen.

The news agenda was sat there as these things to the time through the entire building all the programs in all the different languages that ticking on and off to the exact second old based on Greenwich mean time when I think of the Pips always I think of whose house I will send a colleague that you know whether the marble.

Floor is a slightly dented that was my feet that did that is over the years.

We've lived there so much change in this building and and so much units MOT history, Isle of this book.

Every bit of it.

I love that from the very first moment I entered the building reflections has the world service moved it output across to broadcasting house this week in 2012 2006 now and what's happening in Manchester City store opening of introducing by DJ koolaid Peter Holden Street Boddingtons Brewery Steven Patrick Morrissey new music station is born 97.7 XFM Manchester in Manchester this week in 2006 it launched on a 3% weekly reach.

It's now.

Don't you just love that every Manchester Station always kicks off with a fried eggs are ready wax out of course across in Stoke this week in 68 and it's taken another 13 years to bring back genuine local radio to the Potteries BBC Radio Stoke-on-Trent is the latest broadcasting event in the chain of wireless experiment in the Potteries it might be said that the whole concept of broadcasting began here for it was in 1851 that the great Parnell radio Oliver Lodge was born in tenko.

We in the new local station have a tradition to live up to BBC Radio Stoke launching this week in 1968 so with hard 80s launching two years ago, but the heart 80s let's start with Whitney Houston that great Tony Blackburn top 40 link 38 years ago during its first 42 years ago was Rose to 1.8 million on a 6 million turnover those are this week's Friday thank you.

David Lloyd and to our regulars James cridland Android Martin and this week to our guests Adam Findlay from central an original HR Consulting Colin Kelly thank you to you as well for listening.

We've got more for you next week Today programme with broadcast bionics creating and distributing clever software for radio.