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Read this: Media Masters - Tyler Brûlé

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Media Masters - Tyler Brûlé …

Media Masters with Paul Blanchard welcome to media Masters a series of one-to-one interviews with people at the top of the media game Channel X column on international travel and design trends in 1996 he founded influential Design magazine wallpaper which was sold to Time Warner just a year later since launching monocle in 2007 the magazine has evolved into a global multimedia business covering publishing radio podcasting television and live events is global branding agency.

Winkreative represents more than 30 clients worldwide including American Express British Airways and Sky News toilet.

Thank you for joining me.

Thank you haven't cos we don't hear at Montego I've heard you've recording.

Atlantic so well.

I hope it all the call me if it's to your TV but yeah, I'm a huge fan of the magazine incredible to see just how you've expanded the scope of what you doing beyond merely print if I could say that people often ask was premeditated if you look back of a business plan from 2005 was a going to be a luggage collection was there going to be a Cafe and Bar in Zurich Airport of Us things apart of elements where they have to say from the very first issue, if you look back at 2007.

What a luggage collection in in the very beginning and it's still part of a part of the mix, but you did was I thinking about Sir Willie haughey studio like this back in 2005 probably not a journey then how to get better start how far back do what I got the idea for monocle.

Mediator we've got 3 hours overtime affect to go to this is an interesting one because and maybe a bit of a track down memory lane, because I I was always fascinated by newsweek, please I grew up in in Canada my mom's side of the family.

Is is Estonian and I would I would often go over to another uncle's house and we know would be in the living room and everyone to be having a drink or having a coffee clock you doing something else and I would be sorting a rifling through magazines and because a lot of our family and looking Canada via Germany most them spoke to amend and and they were fans of of staring and their spiegel and these are the magazines that are grapple even though I couldn't speak to him and I just I loved that just the feel I can remember the smell of the paper of these is really powerful thick meaty news weekly is with very different from.

Newsweek or or the week later today.

We have encountered McLean's Our Time Magazine there is there is just the result thing about the mix of of editorial and advertising that was good.

I was quite fascinating boost post titles have perhaps always been the back of my mind are also at the forefront of my mind they've always sort of informed a lot of my Maya tutorial thinking experience maybe aspirations as well and it's nearly always been sitting there and and so even though you had your eyes I buy launch wallpaper 96.

I was always is burning desire to do something which was newsier which is more focused on business r&n.

May be felt a little bit like like those those German titles.

So there was a moment in a rather uncomfortable.

I like remember in them in the early 2000s when we have we had to wallpaper up and running and end it was a bit of a discussion going on because of energy 7th intro.

Yeah, we're all bye bye time timing at that time and and they were looking at watch the future of Time Magazine B and one day.

I got a phone call from one of the big bosses in New York and he said it would you in a considerate out of thinking about your what Time Magazine could be at wow.

This is amazing and become a lot of project groups and there is people who going to be involved in this and I thought you may be there should be a European Edition of time which was much more like a course like the German news weekly something which is DT 250 300 pages send it really takes you to the week and wasn't just in a something for the for the daily commute and the project didn't happen, but it really seeded something which was it maybe this should be there the project after after wallpaper and and here we are now.

That's what happened with a we're able to pursue it and and launch it and I guess if I looked back at 2004/2005.

What was happening on the European you stand on North American news now.

I think we can look at a lot of other media companies at the time of what we do.

What were they doing they were picking apart.

They're the monitor posteriorly sort of stripping back there their business plans and things that I saw I was there Is there somebody big media players who were just anyway.

I must sort of denying.

What was the core of what they were doing.

So they had very powerful titles in very powerful brands.

They didn't really have a fully fledged business model.

They didn't they had a really certificate without going to do with digital but they knew that they had to take money from somewhere and that meant downgrading paper quality.

Do you think back to that the mid 2000 remember when it was moving to digital photography? I mean there's this moment and made his Horse Show doing this power when we didn't quite know how to process pictures, but you renew is cheaper to shoot on digital but everyone look like they said been dragged face first by the car it was what was the red whenever write in the print quality and end.

Really sorry catastrophic so ugly moment in print and another widowhood be any part of that we want to go out and we want to deliver a magazine which is bookish and smart and collectible.

I needed to do and stand still need to do everything that print can do well and and go very much against the digital time of the time and I guess you could say are we still try to try to our own course against digital not against digital bed you can probably tell the week and we have a grumpy moments soon as there's lots of buckets of water and it's building I've got tons of questions for your digital coming up, but it what were the initial first steps then cos you are right the print Media Ltd generally won't completely blindsided by digitally butter technologically in terms of business Returns they just didn't know what to do with it now listen here is here is onion full episodes of my life lessons in this program as well, but one of the made mistakes that was it was one of the good outcomes of also, when it when I left timings all the remaining shares I hadn't.

Wallpaper took the agency back with two maybe a bit greedy and I went I went for the the grand the grand is payout but also the long non-compete.

It was 5 years and was 5 years ago.

I could not wait into the media pond and interior magazine but almost five five years to the day monocle came out so that's that 3-year point.

I would say yeah.

I guess you're review 2004/2005 the party ideas with cementing as to what I wanted do I was very fortunate that when I when I last time ago.

I was also able to bring some of my most senior staff with me and and of course they wanted to come with me as well as Tokyo Jackie Deakin head of production Richard Spencer Powell who's our creative director at the Iraqi people in there is also little bit of any sort of war room.

There is a small bunker where this idea for monocle was with pork.

Reading and rnzn eventually we got to the point where much raise money let's start to do a dummy, let's start the price this whole thing up and it took a little bit longer than we thought it would but we got there in the end.

I think we the plan was he would do would be a year of of development and fundraising and then we would be an understandable took the next year when were the early signs that you're onto something that it was actually going to go pats even better than you initially thought I think they are really positive signs came probably just from the first advertising meeting so we went to see brands and and started talking up, but this was was going to be with the ambitions were and there was a great reception and instantly you can look back at it very chunky first issue of people were were ready and willing to pay pay the rates that that we were I'm expecting or not quite demanding but that was one part of it.

There was a thing of their policy.

Reception on the part of the media as well, which was which is also great and bitacora, St Joseph's rrr.

Launch issues and and then we we often see title then sort of wobbly second third and fourth issues and Furious things happened.

There is probably enough of a lunch.

Just enough of a lunch.

Before and everything I'm employed with the Roman Park it's because yet remember we launched in the first quarter of 2007 and in that of course Lehman happens in everything else and it starts travel, but I think we're just lucky that we had those for issues.

They were able to be rebel to you.

Don't plant a flag in the Sand said this is who we are editorially and and then things happened at course the advertising market collapsed but here we were us and international magazine based out of London One Edition for the whole world and we.

Talking to at the same morning, so we talk to you now you a mobile engaged reader and now listener and viewer who wants a slightly different take on the world and and one of the things that happened was it probably became quite expensive if you were UBS sore or even proper or or Audi and many other many other companies to stick with your big Media schedule and you can't Mr of the ft.

But you could come into monocle and you could still be on the new Stansted Airport and you could still be on the right newsstands in York and Hong Kong in this one magazine at a fraction of the cost.

So you can still be in the game and that's that crossword clue outdoor benefit.

They haven't happened editorially though it one thing and India you've been hurting that your diet Ember Inns around here if there was there no and sort of singing Kumbaya first thing in the morning or not that I hear the time is mid-morning isn't it could be but I think we've always had a positive.

Take on the world.

I think we have your again and again it there's no is editorial brandbook letizia Andrew or other editors upstairs.

Lots of sitting down at new arrival saying that this house you this is where it needs to be but there is pretends to be sunny disposition year but I think we always want to be solution driven as as as a media Brands at beginning of very easy to go and my largest swear gently on the trust as journalists to go and keep pursuit of something and to poke holes in it.

I think it takes a different type of journalistic the different editorial approach to be Solutions driven, and say ok things are or not great drive you put your neck out in an op-ed piece in this is the way things should go or you going to find a subject to or going against the tide and doing something different so then what happened in 2008 for military point of view we were telling the stories of people who get had maybe.

100 job at Credit Suisse Yahoo are no longer in the financial again, but what were they doing? They were we are looking for a new part of land because they saw the the boom in Japanese cuisine Leigh should be growing wasabi down in Devon or we want to go and tell the story of someone who wanted to rethink what community space is needed to be in Copenhagen so we suddenly tapped into this entrepreneurial boom.

I figured out for yourself that you can choose out of a lie on the payouts and and that was in the way that was when the magazine really sort of takeoff.

I think that's when people really got what week are we did this building roundabout.

It's just tapped into the kind of the global scale long-term trends of the way that the world is going so increased financial incentive people lose their jobs, but globalisation is also made everyone much closer social media you can grow wasabi in Devon people are much more interested in other cultures that phrase citizen of the world seems to be much more.

11:00 now than ever and achievable and and imagine someone like that will be reading your magazine frankly.

Yeah, that's certainly one audience and and for sure we could we could go to an event together in in Melbourne that we would have to be could do one in London and you will probably meet as many people from outside of Melbourne after events as as he would residents of the state of Victoria I think the same thing will happen if we have an event here in in London this evening as well.

It's it's a proper paid up international audience and I want to speak about paid up later on in R3 our discussion that will help because I think that's also a really I think you're a crucial component chat to all of us as well, but they think the people who who do see themselves as he has to the pin bowling around the world and they've had different experiences, but that also bonds you in a different.

I think that's why it was it was so you're annoying if we look back.

We're almost three Summers ago go when the wind TRESemme was talking with citizens of nowhere near the Citizens of the world being citizens.

Know when an earring is just completely and I think also too too many people who live in cities up and down this country as well and NCS for your is that is that a sideswipe or even a sort of a full-on frontal attack in Iran on this time on this audience for sure it was but at the event but at the same time.

I think this audience also is very quick to defend that position as as a very fortunate one two and four chickens agency to be part of we see a can of polarization of people now politically that there's you know half the people almost literally are kind of optimistic outward-looking pragmatic dare.

I say your reader's your listeners your viewers and then but there is this this other half people who vote for Donald Trump people vote for brexit that is scared by that change that I kind of the protective that they would they don't want what you're prepared to offer.

Potentially scared intimidated or feel left out by that part of world.

I think there's also a bigger.

There's a bigger Media discussion.

I think that also there is there are many other components.

I think which people are are reacting I'm against it.

Is it is it whether it's a migration topic.

Is it is it the speed at which things move which which terrifies them? I don't think it just comes down to the way that is over the horizon.

I think that there is also.

I think the media has a lot to answer for in this current and rather unfortunate place that the we arrived at and that when I see stories.

I thought you nice all stories on the BBC website the other day which was talking to some influence over here some individual hadn't heard them.

They don't have a global name, but they were just saying you know everyone needs to get to speed.

There is there is no the other is Louis of note.


There should be no cook cooling off if you want to sort of stand for gay Rights you need to collect the speed of matter whether you're 89 or 90.

I don't agree with that.

I think that's part of the problem.

I think that if we expect that everyone you have to be in the moment and we don't allow people to acclimatise.

That's part of the problem and I think that is why we end up with with a trump um because also you have it may be at the well-intentioned more left leaning side of the media.

Of course.

They have their narrative about the same time.

I don't think that everyone can a snap to attention right away and that's when I think things become incredibly polarized.

You need to bring people along and now were in this world of instant condemnation.

There's no time to bring me along then of course.

I'm back to the corner where it worked with you expect me to do and this is the end is the rat the rather sad place that we reside in the moment.

We have Lynton Crosby podcast couple of years ago.

And what you agree with his politics or not and I sent me how many disagreement with him and he said the problem with political communicators.

These days is the only really know to how to talk to other people of the same type of there than one of the techniques.

He uses he said he goes into working mens clubs in the north of England he reads regional newspapers the kind of things they normal political comms people don't you know when were trying to win the popular server to add a unitary keep Scotland together out with the United Kingdom or brexit.


Only talking to a certain segment of the population.

That's a huge component to end and again where were talking maybe a bit in the English language world, but you look at me look at Austria at the moment at your Austria suddenly becomes your is it is a bit next hungry late at the way the place is positioned at the worthies spin Doctors with a word as Jonah was spread over various news outlets actually in the small villages which was sort of living in the moment when you rave with the refugees were coming in Prague

Knott End and then of course we know that the media Circus descends on these places to go and do the stories in the moment.

I haven't seen any follow-up stories on what happened 18 months in 2 years after the others these massive sort of waves have came across Europe and so we were there of telling the story of human tragedy and and and and these mass movements and the good in the bad side of them all these things but that's one of the media Circus moves on and an hour course when I come election time.

I'm not seeing that level of reporting from whether it's a very small village in Austria or a small town in Northern Italy or somewhere within saxony in Germany win things flower app of course mediavida media are there but where we started in doing that maintenance peace within those areas.

I think that again brings us to the place where we are today.

The radios you know fox vs.

The voices of the journalist on MSNBC in the States and whether it is been aware of this but maybe that's a holiday programme as well, but whether I do know whether it's the story that the Guardian want to to talk up vs.

What's the Telegraph or or or surname prudential of the times? It was like might want to do some very real world implications including free magazine ad recently you move the printing over to just to Germany for cost reasons wasn't just cost reasons we we had to do a couple of things be allowed to speed up super candid about it.

Just the stator stator print we saw a series of things happen within the UK Prince market over the last year or so of course.

I never bankruptcies.

We had and I guess there's a Turning Point last year we are bringing out the forecast in the forecast is.

This does exactly where does a pile look across the Year years ahead and there was a moment where they the company in charge of praying covers when under and Oliver cotterstock was also sitting there so although was impounded and that just it was ok.

Things are so volatile within the industry and may be particularly within the UK today.

We need to look at a more stable supply chain and interest-only buy-to-let exercise in parallel.

Of course you have brexit.

You have a magazine like ours wear UK is neck with us as as being the main market but in totality.

I mean if you look at the complete global circuit the moment.

It's it's a waiter small part of it.

So you're a proper international magazine and we need to look for a course the best of the best distribution solution best print solution and so Jackie Deakin production director she went into the beauty contest.

An octopus make effective, she's a beauty contest amongst printers and and we'll and we also challenged paper all those things and it took her to Belgium and France and Spain and I'm the out of Eastern Europe and of course they look a lot of place in Germany we ended up with new consumer who were just in between hangover and in Hamburg and are now into coming up to issue issue 32 Bishop or with them and we couldn't be happier Jack you like that the part of the family who owns Indesit Indesit proper German mittelstand printer port Camden Brewery him and why would she like them then so that was your day was prepared to Jack is a part of the deal winner for you for you as well.

Could have been but there's still just a passion for print and paper and and I guess what your also it.

Where were family business as well, and it was it was lovely to sit down the owners of that company and and have a nice lunch on the elbow when we started.

Talking about what we want to do.

It was great to see that.

They showed up when we had our launch event for space in Zurich they were there when the first issue came off press to me how the party and in Hamburg those types of relationships or hugely important in this especially there when we are an independent business if we want to also support other independence within the media chain and so it's it's been 22 rewarding and look this is this is a country which of course invented the modern printing press and they still come good honest.

So everything is Slimming you can imagine it is it off the force in terms of just being so immaculate the space and also not sort of zipping up and download they were never really sitting up with in the West Country chugging along the West Country to bind in one place to the cameras within the everything is under One Roof and it's great and we're even done sweatshirts to celebrate the moment as well a lot, but hopefully Nick one on the way out of the oven have a nice gift.

Kind and it's almost a clichéd question to ask her what is Prince dead, but you're not I regularly read The Times and the Sunday Times the New York Times and lots of babies.

Would it have never actually taking the physical copy of 18 years and it doesn't bother me if there's something quite physical about monocle that I personally would be gutted if you ever stopped printing it physically.

I don't want to read it online frankly I want to read it in my hands.

So does that give you a unique perspective? I figure creating unique perspective illimite Israel I didn't create unique position for us because as many other publishers retreat from print or they they downgrade the print quality that that presents an opportunity others there's no question so if you want to speak to you wanna be with you won't be very greedy and commercial about that.

You can look across the last two issues you with this amazing insert from from BMW which is just which is it will be printed it for the we photographed it for them and it just tells a great story of the top end of the BMW brand BMW could not get you just couldn't deliver that.

You can do a great film and and as long as you do with immediate else, but can you go back again hurting and look at the VIII series in in the same way and there is something very different about a backward image as 2 to 1 which is reflecting light and I think that is and then especially if it's on it.

Just wonderful to see paper Stark and get elastic band works.

It's the magazine you this is a Haptic experience and this is we forget about print.

This is a real different sense of Engagement and end.

Of course.

It's it's expensive and cumbersome and his many complexities with it in terms of logistics accepted, but my goodness when the right words when the right images are on page of course if it matches with fantastically outside Looking at screen right now.

There's nothing that comes close everything we have to move away from this world of the either-or.

There's plenty of room for party.

There is still room for Kirsty work and are you on on on BBC2 there? Is there still room for four CNN and it's children for newspapers and and it's a room for magazines as well, but somehow we're in this very odd place and I think this is again.

It's it's a bit of a media situation.

It's not just the media narrative, but maybe it's part of it as well, but it was out of the oven be just we have to be in a 3 of same unilateral position is everybody everybody else and I think that's what I think I move back in 2007 and maybe they have the way we we feel about you know that certain digital channels, etc.

I sent it to the people feel little bit threaten your scared by it and it sometimes.

Oh, what is it that the people over at Midori house, so that we don't know or or or why are they they not doing that of the just doing it because they want to be a cranky and not an accident and instead over in the corner or

Are they taking you know a longer-term view and if they've taken out longer-term view what's in forming it and and it's worth I sometimes think being a people's review about this business or so late and I'm speaking specific the monocle business.

I think makes of you little bit uncomfortable at times.

You are right about the tactile experience of reading the magazine physically I the editor of wired on the podcast recently and I said to him.

I've always wondered why the cover feels physically different and you said oh that's because we put sand on it.

There's literally sand on it YouTube you having can of its not cos sandpaper had Anthony wired and Monica lidokaina magazines that I want to take on a plane when I've got some time to reflect an actually in Dawlish Warren listen.

We can open up some of the letters that we received when we moved your printing the Germany we and we did it we did make them a bit of a big deal about a bingos.

This is a long relationship that we had in the UK we didn't take this decision lightly but also when we decided to a bit of this is maybe a moment to switch things up none of it driven by

Diecast I might add we just really want to just deliver a better magazine.

So you have a slightly grainy of stock.

It's it's coated legitimate the main body stalk of of the magazine the print quality is just is extraordinarily just the way the images and colours left in a coral paperwiz was a little bit more bookish match format but it really sort it really sucked up the colour that sucked up the blues excetera.

So it was it was quite high maintenance to to print any other than those of the paper was became quite unstable that mean it was the we were one of the first magazines of scale to start using that the old paper and then you start a lot about the annual report successor mean, it was very difficult for also the day the supplier to to to maintain the same level of of quality so we both moved on to a much more stable papers are none of this is Tottenham versus Spain I'm sure my my CFO with your wishes.

It was bad Newry I can say hit 1000% we want to deliver a better man casino think we've done that.

Another old aphorism that's often misattributed to Hannibal which is no battle plan ever survives contact with the enemy you but how how did your plan evolved is yellow monocle Z got the print on vacation, but you've now got cafes retail stores NE25 radio station.

How did all of that involve? When did you start to think right? You know Siri is in actually global domination could be the next door would like to a property release I think sometimes you like to glance left and right and end of the world is moving to the right there.

Maybe we we do here to the left be a part of it is a part.

What happens here.

It's it's the product of of Andrew being an editor whose skin is having great career on on Fleet Street part of it was also informed by I need the relationship.

I have with Jackie and and and Rich Jaguar car production which PR creative director we just meet again.

This is a brand that mean jackets at a raised eyebrow, and I know exactly what that means.

She does that a lot and you know I only need to have a hint of an eyeroll from rich.

And I know exactly what we need to be doing with that story and that's great and I think it's one of the other one of things we know we Focus so much on innovation pole and I say again Justin in the world of a business, but I think often we forget about the power of also of longevity and having a great team would like to spend time together obviously, but it when it comes to in a getting a product aftermarket and you never have to do now second guessing you just you know exactly what you doing and upsetting.

That's one of the wonderful things then if I think about yeah the battle plan for this since sits on one side being a pretty nimble and agile little Platoon that we are and we be able even able to to move quickly and I guess also I've always had taken if you don't need to be a Pioneer we need to need to get their first invade the of the first on the scene and I think that the BBC in York Times let them go and do that.

They can be the ones who connects.

I could take you to me that we had The Economist near several years ago with a yet though.

It was as if she was like was tablet overload in the room and they were trying to build a Coalition of like-minded globalpublishers who will win Millwall race to to be putting a magazines Olivia 100% on at the tablet and then this one in the UN in they had this elaborate artificial this New York and the other side just shows you how quickly both descriptions mini print subscriptions and also print newsstand sales roadrider just you fall off the radar chart, and we sat there anything that could have been the starting point for the studio sitting right now.

I wish I was with everything was with Andrew and a car from a publisher palindrome without we got me.

I've got the car.

I don't really did Park Avenue in Donegal this way or that might we don't we don't know so we have to be part of it and and if that is one part of the world is going.

So many other people who who want have a different type of experience so when I think about battleplan course you looked at the numbers in we considered a digital future and how much would have to invest to do a tablet edition and was that number €750,000 million that we would need to invest and one day I said Andrew what if we want to do something different with we had the Theroux podcast the monocle weekly and we've found sponsors from time to time and and was able to wash its face either make a little bit of money.

What would you 325 radio station and and we started to build a plan and and it was of course informed also by discussions with appetizers and we are here.

We are in Studio One in the studio to across the way and there is an Android studio take a look at univ you meet me.

The end of tens of thousands of hours of outputs and every running a fully fledged global radio business now and again, but it was it wasn't her baked into a three or four-year plan this was something what happened over the span of three or 4 months not to get up and running but certainly did this is something we would like to insert into into the business planning to be likewise if you ask about retail those lovable flower shop down the street and I was I was just sad to see it.

Go and I didn't want to see it turn into a kebab shop or something nothing.

It's kebabs, but I doubt that we don't really need another one of the area, so maybe we could have a home for bags and other products in a nice place to do metre readers and undergraduate was right in your George Street is still there cafes came about because someone made us a great offer to do a cafe in Tokyo and end with with a really amazing.

Diamond and other than she prefers cafe with Ron children Street wasn't it was in the basement hankyu department store in Tokyo and intercourse, Utd appoint thinking wow.

This is great regalo royalty fee for it should we be running around show and again navigate of real estate came up and down and we took it out.

There is a lot of it is about being responsive and we think about a reader or audience how to get close to them or closer to them and any I don't want to make it sound like it's a sort of total jumble sale when it comes to how we identify and look for opportunities, but it's a main part of his is is moving fast but is it always for the coming adding to this to the score idea of creating environments where we can get our audience together and then bring them under the roof the name we are in a Corsa lovely setting and does it always come back to of course getting the core print product in people's hands whether that's an event recap there a shop and and then when you think about the Coral

Product sitting in the studio, are you able to go and unpack a story in a very different way? I'm are you able to talk up a new book that we've done are we able to get a corresponding on the line and again in the prints of course push people to radio and and and and can all these things get people to our next conference which is a good at the end of June actually thinking about it for me jumble sale point of view.

I was actually an incredible admiring hugely impressed by the entrepreneurial plug that the drive that you know in a lot of big companies that lack your agility.

Playsafe these days.

You never say we got the newspaper in we've got the website and we may launch a podcast your everywhere doing loads of different things having the courage to try it, but maybe I'm not being defensive when I say jumble sale, but I think a lot of people do look a bit and maybe Disney the McKenzie outsider and I like this of course.

I meet lots of other media leaders and a Dacia unfocused business here often and so you drink cafe.

Andy Leonard why you doing this? Why do not know who those guys are perfectly lovely but this is actually joined up here to me it why wouldn't you have a core magazine and then you have some off you and then we do some newspapers and and hopefully that lines up to what we do in Timisoara newsletters and other digital offer and to me it makes perfect sense that we should have cafes and shops because I don't want of the when we talk about a crisis in media today.

We think about the crisis of a print Media it a lot of the self-inflicted.

There is there is a broken chain right now between what happens at retail outlets go into City Airport let's go let's go through any number of major airports around Whirlpool and you wonder why my dear I might there because code is your oh yeah, there's now way a green tea flavour version of it and not with Sword of jumping out of the front of a space worm actually want.

Buy business book and I would like to pick up a copy of the New York Times but I can't even see any printing at space anymore, so I think that's that's one one problem.


I'm able to get groceries delivered to my house pretty much anytime I want but when it comes to getting me know my hands around a German newspaper the next day.

It seems to be most complicated thing in the world so I added the whole distribution chain is is completely broken so you're part of it.

We're doing this thing will look at if I if I if it WHSmith is not going to do it for me.

If had to news is going to do it for me the states of maybe I need to have my own shops in if I go back to maybe are sort of McKinsey alumni who are now so the running major media companies.

I think that were on Focus I think we need to look back at it where major media companies were century ago.

They had their own newspaper boys out in front of station.

It was completely vertically integrated to me to use what is dinner occasion, Mayfair

Motoring in business these days and I think that's where we need to be out now.

We can be outside of every station, but I would love to think that you don't want in 304 years time that if you go to Hong Kong airport or you're not even trying to Charles de Gaulle but maybe it's a monocle store that you going into and you're still able to pick up a copy of the moment and you're able to get British Vogue but also at this is been brought to you by us because we believe in in in the meeting that we were founded upon.

Would you consider requiring other brands as they start to flower and Meanwood monocle ever take over Time magazine if it if it's started to lose readers and needed a buyer.

I'll be obviously there of their time as an example.

Of course.

I've just been snatched up and indeed.

He knows they might be on the market soon cos we've certainly seen a lot of people in the digitech space pick up some interesting titles and some of them of real mermaids on the market that question the heart of Vegas part of the Spirit of this.

Places is one of the desire to to launch things but I certainly look at a lot of titles and I think could that be something quite complementary for the stable and the answer is yes, yes, I think that's ok.

We're doing our own in adventures in the world of food and drink right now because your mind magazine that if it came on the market and it's got an amazing editor and I would think this could sit very nice dinner portfolio may be better today.

Been in before all of that before we we we we get married.

Yeah, maybe we can start dating first and then you probably been moments about an internal States have work, so well, where we we've done things with certain Partners and not to kiss them many frogs before you make your prints indeed, but I'm better than all of those you know I don't you listen.

We we had a great TV experience at at Bloomberg and there was a desire to go back and do another series and we chose not to we just thought it was probably be now and then again.

Business of Princes and frogs it was also just the scale of of course this huge organisation and then and then your monocle on the other side are Brand on their network who's in charge of the Script end.

Where is editorial control said acceptance ok at that time was probably who is who is all about what we want to have for a second season so yeah, I'd like to go dating double it at first but the other things out there when I look at the Landscape that in our pockets are deep enough.

We might we might purchase something.

How do you divide your time personally then in terms of like the pie chart offices in New York and every other week I travel a lot but I mean you.

Are you put me to shame in terms of your reputation as a global jetsetter figuratively and literally at my wife views.

He was a kind of international arbitral cool as well, and not me.

What are likely not in his.

Comfortable with that kind of that that kind of label, but you're not serious level you have so many things that you could pay attention to how do you choose what to focus on late breaking news listeria.

I don't travel that much anymore so am and I'm probably seeing her first, but I've slightly modified my travel important part of this because I've just been on the Hopwood last 1520 years knackering isn't it? It's sitting with this is maybe that Focus and and where are you able to know where do you settle down and get a precise view on on on your business and and where are you where you wanted to go home now? I've always had a relationship with Switzerland are where we always been within Zurich based goodness going back to that 2001/2002.

So when the whole rebranding of of austerity Swift happened.

It was a big.

Turning Point for agency with all of that I kicked into gear and then we're Incorporated or business is there and then I became a Swiss residents so I've always in a bin been shopping back and forth but primarily between Switzerland and end in the UK so there is always this is base there and then we've we've been using the desert office it's it's sort of had it so it's it speaks and it's it's quieter.

And as a maybe two or couple of things happened.

Maybe two years ago.

We were there is a board meeting and you look at it was Monica board meeting and we're just looking at global advertising market and and where is the money and it was just wondering surprising charts that you look at you think I couldn't believe that switzer.

When is our biggest advertising market and yet there were on office and it was meant by 1.

Person and we're not close to the biggest brands and I've always waited there should be a great documentary down about the role that the Swiss play and particularly the families of Geneva in sustainia, Waterfoot we do I mean all a lot so many the greater editors in midi people that you've interviewed on this programme probably wouldn't have a business if it wasn't for a couple of what companies and banks and all of that goes back to Geneva and it is amazing that there is this almost philanthropic approach to media and an ass there was just that moment.

I thought it we need to be closer to these companies because you're so important and enable we need to establish ourselves in a different way.

I mostly agree underlining what we doing so without for a run one day and just passed as great building cleaning aluminium dark green glass 1967 the best of Swiss architecture and is an empty the ground floor.

And I'm going to make my colleague Carlo I said takeaway.

Can you find out who owns is building low and behold our subscribers to the magazine and they were only too happy to add to cart us a good rental deal and demented then we opened up this at the end of this much bigger setup in in in Zurich and support of visitors.

Does a great office there, but I wanted to change my travel pattern so I think before I was like eyes darting back and forth all over the place all the time has exhausted.

Just reading about it and and an hour's work is really a base and I will go out on a Grand Tour now, and then I'll be out on the road, so I go to Asia suppose I could go in Singapore for two meetings.

I'm coming back.

I will now you do Singapore Tokyo and and and saw them sleep on an upcoming trip and I do the 10-day trip now.

Enjoy be much more efficient and then I'm sort of them back in Europe for a longer stay in and then I try to come back and forth between Zurich and London and if I can do it By by Train even better.

And then further than I've got France overseer imported as well make a stop in Paris on the way, so you can probably get in to see if he was how much my travel budgets improved and that's just part of yeah.

Maybe able to bring over 15 hour no but also I think just for me it's because something happens when you're in this building and I'm sort of look at the clock thinking.

Oh my goodness.

I know there's lot of the meetings.

Do I need to get to the so much happening today? Where is when it when I'm in Zurich I feel like I've time for Strategic Thinking or just utecht room two little bit and also a really interesting things about studying an hour and 10 minute flights from this city cenozoic is incredibly international and ends in is it is it is a global city bus with a global village, but you're outside of the english-language media.

Will you can say and of course you can have all of us outlet sonic?

I bet you're certainly just hit by a difference interviews and that's because you're having lunch with somebody has slightly different take on the world and and I need is Leicester's last year and if you don't whether it does my body in French market or German speaking marketer or Italy to maybe sort of Step outside of the boundaries bigger than ever won a course here your nose that's and delivery.

Are you really going to do you think surround microphone probably not and I think this is one of the is the one the great promise when was talking about social media but not restoring Andrew very funny skit the other day and I carried out live edit.

We know it was a great piece of that sort of thing this shows blocked by Twitter alien bases dino step out of line.

They will assassinate you and I think this is again one of us decide places.

We've ended up that we are people do not see that weather got the microphone or even if you're standing in line for cafe.

Are you able to actually say what you really think today?

I'm so I think we're in this place where there's probably not just parallel conversations going on and it sort of multi-track conversations.

I think is a very interesting meteor shower just to be done called.

I don't worry I call it.

When are we going to call the safe room or are you going to seal the deal room? Where are you you really able to have a conversation and it in a competition happening.

It's happening everywhere on Friday of topics, but somehow doesn't reach the three types of on the front page seems to be so much negativity on social media these days.

I know and Russell Brand has become a and aficionados and a fan of Some Girls training his dog who advocates for electric shock collars.

No, I think they're in humans are tweeted that couple of days ago.

Never thought anything of it.

I just said well like I personally think the inhumane.

I got three four dozen Attax from eBay were saying that that was outrageous.

I didn't know what I was talking about I should shut up.

I just moved to the conversation cos I thought I just can't be bothered arguing with a load of why did you even have to comment on it?

That is a that is a fair question I mean 10 and that is the other that the point is well as whether or not I should have done.

I'm certainly much less likely to do then if you just want to hassle you don't you do want the hassle and get an idea.

Why doesn't feel leaving the chippy in on the conversation you and I can see our God we can have a discussion for lunch and yeah.

We we don't like electric shock dog collars and that's fine, but yeah, I think that just because just because the outlet is there any guesses comes to becomes a bigger discussion for the sector that were in does it doesn't mean you have to use it and yet suddenly if I'm feel that you have to be on Twitter and therefore much would I have to say something? I might need to be on Instagram at anything.

That's one of the challenges for media companies.

We come back to where we were a couple of paragraphs ago.

Is is that sense of Focus just because he has been created a platform is there? I don't think that every media company needs to engage to put those commerciality consideration frankly because Facebook is a brand new channel, but a lot of the people that we've had sitting in well that metaphorical chair and Goodwin your stew.

We will do that.

You know that the biggest problem.

Has is that you have people creating the content pane for the journalist and then Facebook monetizing it because it cost of stories are in the Facebook page of that particular Media branding.

It's Facebook that gets the money for the adverts absolutely and we've been talking about this for many many years and people thought we were absolutely looney when we should look at we are not going to be on Facebook I'm not going to be putting that ass up on our website and why should we put a little birds splash it all over you all over here are Brand and intimate.

It seemed like such a strange moment when the whole boom happened a few years ago.

You wouldn't you wouldn't see it anywhere else you wouldn't see a situation.

Ok? Just because we're in the world of Media that that suddenly like CNN would go with your dad.

Did your times would feel they should host the CNN logo on the front page of the papers.

They would see that see.

Can is after their ad dollars there is clear? Why did the media not see this coming and that is why I'm very happy to say when there is a big international media trial many years from now and many media companies and media company owners your will will be called to testify and also probably be indicted.

I'm happy that I will not be called upon because we stayed out of that because it was just very clear.

Why should I be missing you left? I got Instagram play still on my Facebook why should I be pushing my audience to Instagram great idea to going to beat yes, it's wonderful for traffic and is this can be grateful for the further engagement and you're going to build your numbers.

I'm taking people have a lovely cosy monocle environment and I'm pushing someone I do not believe they come back.

They don't and you're right because if you free sample put an Instagram link on Twitter tweet.

They don't do that link works, but they don't.

Somebody needs because they don't want you to click on it.

They don't want instead of what you going to Instagram it's the same way that if you put a link to St Monica's latest issue on an Instagram page isn't they don't make it clickable because they don't want you bear Instagram is going over to Monica Lee want to keep them because there's a hard-headed commerciality.

Isn't it behind a lot of these decisions for a shower and then this is and I still don't think the messages when has gone through a lot of boardroom still that that this is the case now of course.

We do here a lot of seals now complaining they realised it.

Does it has it trickle down to the editorial 4 of those still all of the sharing is still over this push and I think that's that word pushes one thing that I thought about why it is calm down a bit but I was always thinking you in a look at the actor Daniel times at the bottom of every story pushing me to Facebook pushed me too.

I'm in your paper.

I mean I mean the moment with you.

You've got me baby.

Why you push me somewhere else? I don't want to go down the street really happy where I am right now.

It is also when you think about it.

Isn't it? I think it's more cos it's this shiny.

Why was a new thing but was?

Reasonably do they think they just off to be doing it because other people doing anything else? It's it's almost like her group Delusion in a sense.

It is incredibly impressed by both editorial vision, but also the commercial vision the fact that it does what it says.

She mention that several times.

It's incredibly impressive what you've achieved have there been any mistakes along the way or as the Americans would say learning outcome learning moment well one of the moment.

Is that we try to avoid certain American corporate.

Speak you can't hear.

There's this the of that those were adopting things is very good and I love to put in a red a red pen through such language a lot that I guess that's been there's been a number of of lessons along the way and I think part of it.

Is is is Gut Instinct if I think back to 1994? They would have my my my my big life lessons was I'm literally looking at a fork in the road and thinking you've got left right or or or turn around in this was in Afghanistan and

I really knew in my heart when I was there reporting that are short and others within in Kabul City Point Russians of laughter was pre Taliban and it was a city which was divided and and and still in the heater, but I quite like that was with underreported or heard almost been forgotten and I was looking at this this the end of the road ahead with you in the car when you and your caught in the Crossfire I was I was in a car with a driver and with an interpreter and also it's an Elsa birthday the photographer I was travelling with and we know we had this moment.

I know there are four men in a car to afghans.

Who are there to look after us not there to protect us, but there is certainly our guide and there is just there is something my god at that moment even though I do smiley.

I don't have been in Kabul for about 14 hours.

I just knew that we were in the wrong place and we shouldn't go forth and yeah, I violet.

Yep, I like the voices of our other other reminders.

I take us forward yet, and we were your car was hit almost 40 times.

I wish twice the art report the result of the back of the head Arms Rhiwbina survived with it without brain damage and did not lose his ability to talk so anyway for very you don't like the individuals that we were able to get out of this, but it's ok.

That decides it that was about really listening to your gut and it was something which I am I come back to again and again and you can be classically trained in you can have all kinds of experience.

I meant sometimes.

I think that are in a when it comes to may be higher than that of coming through the door and maybe just sometimes you know you you let a story go on your thing ok that that they just it didn't it? Didn't feel right at the time and so it's really sort of sort of listening to you know what it was just beneath your

Solar plexus I might feel this is really is really important.

It sounds super cliche but I listen where where were animals and they're your weekend weather centre danger or you or you just feel that just something just instinctively.

Is is not right so I think of the episode of Navy mistakes that have been been made along the way maybe sometimes.

We should have moved faster in certain places maybe sometimes.

I think we should have been louder and a more confident about some things I maybe I'm a believer in a higher slow in fire fast would I think again sometimes we wish we should have maybe been a bit quicker to to see some people out of our building so there is here and I guess the only things come back down to um in the ones going ones gut Instinct last question I because I can see you've got barely mind is at the door waiting to throws out our elegantly.

Hear it deliberately vague and open question what's next what's next? There's always a couple of things and I I sometimes like to talk to talking terms of groups because it often various things going on because many channels of the business are very focused on this whole retail peace so we will be opening in this morning for some really talking about this properly rubbing your first airport store so I talked about the problems of buy magazines at airports open in Hong Kong in the 60s meaning at the gate 60s at the airport and it's it's it's probably one of the best places.

It's going to be a huge store fully monocle branded and it's going to be that place to buy all of the the titles and and books that you want so it makes it such an area of interest and and it's 12:45 mission on one side of course to be able to get great print in front of people to give you a great Moor

Experience but also really support the industry veteran is not to mention a what a fantastic place to just have an amazing billboard.

I'm in one of the world's busiest at transport Hubs I was sitting to do one right now in intensive the heart of the monocle 24 business at this is going to go undergoing huge.

Overhaul June 3rd will be a relaunch for Argos at this outfit and network.

I'm so using bit of a bar geography bit more so someone can you get deployed to Tokyo €12 there from the side of business someone else is going to be going to Los Angeles and and really dividing the world into is a tower block so they have a little bit more coming from Asia and more with feeling of being in a pack world handing over to London and Zurich than handing over Los Angeles is is going to be one Focus and then everything is asking about dating there is some we've we've got some interesting things and ended is there of the world of of pairing up and maybe some nice and ice operativo.

Any nice dinner, but where we are we been having some editing conversations across the channel and it's in a newspaper space and which is Which is great of course of all of the relevant digital extensions that you need and we'll be more on that probably later and someone tell it's been a hugely interesting conversation inspirational there.

I said thank you ever so much free time but I don't think you are right angles podcast in association with big things Media

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