Read this: Media Masters - Greg Williams

Media Masters with Paul Blanchard welcome to media Masters series of one-to-one interviews with people at the top of the media game Williams editor of wired starting at the magazine as deputy editor in 2009.

He took on his current role in 2017 reg overseas print and online content for 1 1/2 million reason the UK and nearly 4 million across the world he also creates their life conferences and events.

He has also written 6 novels two of which are to be made into films Greg thank you for joining me.

Thank you for having me six novels that your hobby then it's it's something I do early in the morning because it's full of something that is for me so I feel like the rest of the day.

I'm doing things that are very very interesting and I'm very passionate about both of us, but yeah, I'm fundamentally just having that hour or two in the morning.

Where is my project and you can kind of get lost in it and really there's

Very little son of jeopardy, if I don't don't get anything good done.

It doesn't really matter.

It's actually just think it's sort of like a version of meditation for me.

So if I can just get that hour or two down in the morning.

I feel good rest of the day so I can achieve something so I don't feel on the back foot cos you know when you when you when you start your day and you feel like I'm hanging II I've got my massive to-do list and if I started a feeling like I haven't achieved anything for some reason that kind of sets me up for a day of kind of Fear anxiety of I need to take things off the list you can have working through that to-do list.

I started every day with the morning cries and I just gets all the negative emotions out the way I cry myself to sleep every night because of a wig then.

I'm ready to go over that sounds like the best kind of bear of people save you some money anyway, I can buy psychiatry.

I know people will be that listening to this because you're ready to have wired, but I'm very intrigued by your kind of career as an awfully, so let's see we can indulge me.

Cheers prerogative presenters, Drogheda

Films about the novels so I started writing novels really it's funny.

I was just thinking about this this program.

I was thinking about you.

When did that moment for the stop? What was the Genesis of that and I definitely started writing fiction and tortured plays as a kind of like a tortured teenager and I started writing books off.

I guess in my sort of late teens or early twenties are all terrible of course and I've written obviously as everyone will tell you six connect a report published but I think that it was just an imp.

It was an impulse and it's like a nice you have to scratch right people only write books.

I feel impelled to do them.

It is a miserable hard process it take you forever.

You are setting yourself up from 34 failure, but I will sort it really part of it was just all so just circumstantial of serendipitous.

I was I went to uni with an acrylic light diffuser.

What drama shows with someone you ended up becoming a book agent and I just happened to walking past it was something for lunch one day in Pret in Leicester Square my hamster walking past and I just went into said hello to him.

I said that im working on this this thing and he was a very junior agent at the time and it said will let me take a look and you managed to sell it which was just remarkable and shows its I think speaks more visibility as an agent than my other writer so that was it.

Yeah, I was off and running and a part of a series about themselves and it was really about her a kiss a cry me through the thing that I wrote something similar as a follow up then as I can't meet you and had a family I wrote something more sort of like you know Dad late about for the having kids at that kind of thing and then I was another follow-up and then as I matured even further I decided on what I really wanted to do right Thriller

Direct to thrillers one called the Nero decree, the other one called I love that.

I can't believe I just did that you have birthdays on hold for sale on a few years ago with some customer service again, then this lady came when I must have been all over about an hour and she asked me my name and I've been on hold for so long actually genuinely forgot my old name.

I've let like lost the will to live that lost the will to live in This podcast Paul Yates colinde seara Sarah.

Goes with a screenwriting.

I do at the girlfriend McAllister and funny enough yet.

The movie we wrote 80 years ago is finally getting married next this month in in in Romania starring John Reno and Ruby Rose so that's fine.

Well, if there's any characters that are 5ft 7 and a half and a bit chubby, then I'm available when your room.

I'm a huge fan of white it must be you must be a great time to be editing a publication.

That's like.

It's at the cutting edge of how technology signs and ideas are changing the world.

You don't know you're actually right.

I am very fortunate in that things have moved towards its you just look at the new cycle.

I was looking so I hope you on the way to work.

I look at all the kind of like the newsletter from the publications that I like and pretty much all of them this morning.

I was just running down thinking yep, that's all that was a story we could do in wide or yep.

That's something we covered already.

You know whether it's so if you know there was a story about this morning about Burger King at doing our plant-based burger weather that we're talking about two lovely brexiteers talking about to the bay technology solution on the Irish border at pre-match every story now in the in the mainstream news agenda is related to wire two how the world is changing what's coming next so will be writing about whether that's security or whether it's trap patient Healthcare there is a wise.

Angle to that and I think that were in in some ways with with with fortunate, but I think also denied that just gives us the most enormous opportunity to really become so lovely to offer our expertise Nora 480 in these areas because at the team up.

Why does have genuine expertise and authority and these areas so yeah, I'm the other thing I'd say is that we are very international in their Outlook and I think the inner despite what's happening in the UK at the moment.

There is no doubt that in and then there are also other forces at play in terms of them in oaaa.

Retrenchment should we save some sort of like Nations but I do think the future clearly is in a global with issues like climate change or global problems or issues like migration our global problems.

We will only solve these by operating with with all the nations.

So I think the word perspective which is to really look beyond our borders and think about how the world is changing his is a really relevant 1.

I was just with would we having an event this week and I was just trying to figure out.

How many places with reported from last year and outside of Europe and the Nordic swede reported from 17 countries where which is which was you know quite? I think that you know and achievement and in places like proven innocent more obvious places like China where you would expect it reporting and business ideas reporting to come from so I think the what's exciting is the rebel to tell these stories in our multiple platforms, so we still have are pretty much us a while print is very much at the heart of our brand and we produces beautiful thing that I think he noted above director wins multiple awards in pretty much every year for the photography and they're at the design looks we are able to tell stories in so many different ways now, so whether that's you know on online or whether that's through in a various other platform for channels live event in our yeah.

I know that you have.

Mini magazine editors sitting in this chair talking about that they live events but I like to think that we were one of the pioneers.

We were one of the first to get into this you can doing it for ages.

We have I think I first one was 2011 and we are we just finished our health events are annual health event last week, and it was just eat.

You know it's great to do these things because you bring all these incredibly diverse people together who are all working on really important challenges, so people really thinking about what the health care is going to be in the future and trying to solve really significant problems are around sort of you know multiple sudden illnesses and conditions that are naturally blighting very of people across the world and what was really exciting was that on that stage we had a guy called Pearse Keane is an ophthalmologist at Moorfields Eye Hospital and he'd read a story about a company called deepmind WI

She's part of Google the Artificial Intelligence pull-out bed.

I should say invite a few years ago and he contacted them and said look I spend a lot of my life looking at 3D renders of a people's eyes looking for various conditions.

They might have is there a way of automating this what can we do with your computer Vision and they worked at work together and the Papas patriot papering nature science last year and they've figured out a way of a machine looking at those I scan to 3D eye scan with 94% efficiency which is around the same level as human being slightly better.

They will get paid to get more accurate than human observation human this isn't exactly right so we had those two on stage talking about the work that been doing and then you know later in the afternoon.

We had an amazing 19 year old woman who has just look what you want off startup competition and she's using data and

Visual imagery to identify early stage Parkinson's in people in an incredible effort and incredible panavision the nice thing about editing.

What is just the sheer amount of positive stories that rape to cover about how the world changing for the better soon began as a champion of the utopian power of technology but with a bit more sceptical about 10 hours social media can a Savage that our attention span and and people seem to be be a bit more jaded? Nowadays people are worried about their data being hacked for example your whilst there's something credible things am a huge fan and a reader but you know the man on the Clapham omnibus now seems to book view technology with the little bit more suspicion Clapham omnibus should be checking the privacy settings in every single social network there on yeah.

That's interesting point but you are absolutely right.

I think things have moved they have changed.

I do think that there is a beginning now.

Orphan awareness amongst consumers that are there but there's some of the brands at the using or maybe not to be trusted that have used a data in ways that maybe they'd they would not like to have been used and was seeing the beginning of a shift in which is something that were reporting on quite significantly from some of these large tech companies for extracting data and monetizing.

It was seeing a shift now pretty much late by Brussels certainly not thereby silicone bunny bring all your washing tonight.

It's a whereby there are gonna be questions asked about how individuals data is being used who is actually benefiting from this now the Big Five make about 150 billion Dollars from European market every year and I think that this could actually really have an impact on the business nothing that's the only way to actually get you know any kind of level of changes to actually look at the incentives for these large companies, so I think that the

Your increasingly European lawmakers will be looking at this and I would not be surprised if we see some of like some significant changes in the next of the flight few years.

I'm I'm not talking about breaking up.

I'm talking about making them much more focused on on on genuine competition because it's not in your point why so much champions of entrepreneurs and to a degree that kind of the underdogs and you know large tech companies stifling innovation is not a good thing for anyone.

It's not good thing for consumers and Elvis it's not a good thing for entrepreneurship.

So we're going to follow this very closely and you know we've had a couple of storage.

Just in the past week, but I think were stories of wood picked up in the mainstream press that really kind of I think so dove accentuate this kind of you know shift.

I thinking public opinion first of all an understanding the way that we reporting these things certainly first of all one of our fantastic talented young reporters Matt Reynolds write a piece about the

Put on Amazon that you were able to buy a so-called autism cure kit which work it's that parents would give a children with autism there effectively that they will advocate that they would the drink or or or bathing a cover bleach like substance Matt Papas the story Amazon took down all those those accounts all those sellers another piece of another piece of journalism.

We did I think about three or four weeks ago revolved around YouTube in the way that pedophiles were using timestamps on videos also I don't children yeah and it out advertisers were on.

You know putting a content up against this stuff and that the pedophiles works of communicating with into the pipe chat groups allowing each other's sort of like the encouraging each other to watch this this particular videos so I think that we're at a point now where titles likewise can be part of helping.

I think to make people more aware of a what's happening to the content that they're putting putting up on.

And also the way that large organisations are actually monetizing it really dangerous anti signs rhetoric Is On The Rise I mean you said that will always stand with the experts on Lyca Mr Michael Gove of course had enough of experts.

Yeah.

That was one of the more kind of questionable things that he said look we believe parents that they are proud that their kids are vaccinated.

I mean it's it's criminally negligent and reckless everyone children.

Yeah, I agree and I think that one of the challenges that sort of particularly YouTube house is the fact that it's optimised for priority rather than truth or editorial quality lakes is the clicks and if you are simply basing your business on a tension you will serve people things that you know that creates.

Do you know dopamine releasing their brains and when they're excited that they will continue to click so I do think that you know.

The situation now where increasingly be looking to start thinking about ok? What is it that is been done to me.

How is my am I being influenced.

Am I being manipulated frankly I buy social to the platforms that are really maybe not good for my health good for the way.

I view the world and helped shape my opinion inequality dangerous way.

I mean let's not beat around the bush about the public health threat of people not having their children vaccinated.

It's is really significant thing in Italy they've just made it legal.

I think I'm bored.

Yeah.

I think that's more than happy to pay who was spoken at many of our events.

He was one of the people who first identified the HIV virus that he wrote a piece for us last year talking about this movements in the way in which that they can have a significant impact on public health.

So anything we can do to stand with the experts to offer it factual that's not factually based journalism will always continue to do my niece is 15 years old and I was chatting to her on her phone.

Couple months ago and she was telling me how she was convinced that the moon landings were fake and she was been issued cos she's in a YouTube video that something linked to it and of course it then said at the bottom people of watch this of what other you know video clips saying the moonlandingz affected by the time she got through 67 of them on an idle Sunday night.

She was convinced that we never landed on the moon.

I mean why doesn't YouTube have some kind of link at the bottom that says this is not accurate click here to see the rebuttal video is it's just about the clicks.

Isn't it? It's about the clicks and also do your point about the rebuttal of video there is no, I I feel like we are living also in a culture now where there is this we Gotta Have wrote the other side of the argument when you doing with fact.

There is no argument and I think that that sort of Where We Stand it's like we're not going to sort of you.

No give you know the anti Vax movement platform because it's not the truth and I rely our readers rely on us to be truthful in a one of the things I can have all the team Richard with this coming going on about the three things that we always have to.

Consider when were never platformer working on whether that's you know one of our events or whether that's print or digital whatever is to really think about stuff like the quality the authority and integrity and those of the three things that I hope go into every single piece of work that anyone on the Wye team does weathered on the commercial team but also you know especially on on the editorial team Leo saying about journalism courses at the job of the Germans is not report that someone says it's raining and someone else.

Is it sunny the job of a Genesis to look outside the f-ing window that's right and we spend a loved.

I'm looking outside the window to matter to you.

Don't really been verified or facts for me.

It is something that is so important because in every mediabrand now.

I think increasing in this age of fake news every mediabrands particularly for to come back in newsbase brownlie clydewide.

Trust is key and without that you have solutely nothing you really are going to struggle to sort of like convince readers or

Commercial partners that you are a valid platform so at the way that we build trust obviously it's to have the like a long history or reporting that is you don't verifiable and fact-based and insuring that you know everything we do you ideas to those qualities tell us about how you put a typical issue together.

Do you have a kind of a Formula in your mind's? I know what the ideal if she would be like a pie chart.

That would say that it will be taking a third of it will be Society and so on you know how do you balance light and shade and how do you in inessential you've got a Beat how do you keep that fresh and interesting? That's a really good question cos I think probably some editors to do edit with a full of strict formula in mind.

I Tend not to attend to sort of just feel that something is right, but that you always have to think about the mix-up asleep, so were one of the few remaining publications that runs long-form stories to around 4 or 5000 words.

It's a shame that.

We are but you know those those are the kind of like the fact that media these days reading seems to have gone out of fashion.

Never wants a quick sum of 400 word 8 on BuzzFeed willingly.

You know our readers are see this through the data and what they're reading online readers respond most in our loyal readers.

Who are the ones that you know where were most interested in in making happy.

They are spending enormous amount of time reading long-form content so just before Christmas we published as we run online only features at one of our writers.

Write an article champoluc Charlie write a story about an online Hitman which was scam, but there are the kind of ethical implications around there.

As I log into it was wrong with great stories as an agency laugh.

Cos it broke the internet but what was interesting was when John I think first of submitted it was around 8000 words.

It was long we run it.

I think around 4 and 5:30 maybe but the amount of time that people spend was quite amazing and what I see increasingly at increasing.

It's just just over time is it on long form features from the magazine tend to not always but tend to traffic incredibly well on the website.

So what that suggest is that there? Is this appetizer going to do this long-form work and you're going to put resources into it and you're going to put caring loving to it at which we do then people will respond to it.

So that's that's good equally the news stories that we do with very rarely publish anything on the 800 words think it because our readers don't seem to respond to anything they do want things that are involved that have gone you know strong reporting are Ant and do have a real sense that they've been worked through and and improperly done.

So I think that those are all very positive things and certainly I think probably 7.

Years ago a lot of people would be sitting in this chair saying well, if you just all about snackable content for us of course there are other platforms that we think about this on so you know we think about that on Instagram we think about how we gonna tell stories on Twitter but what we do throughout the entire all the Editors they now are aware that pretty much everything we doing print is going to be seen in digital in some form.

So we don't really think we don't really necessarily think about a huge difference between print and digital in the sense that this is the kind of story we doing the dishes luggages second story doing print.

We just assume that both at the Dead everything in print is going to go into digital and we can tell stories and different ways on most different formats, so we will tell story a story on Instagram and a different ways and we would on a podcast for instance and we'll talk about to the challenges of mediabrands now, but wow that's really exciting so I'll sit outside my that silly my office and the NOC

What about team safe for instance Victoria Turkey who who one of our editors and you know it single week, she will be because she runs off video channel.

She's also runs off culture channel on on the website.

She also writes long from features.

She also hosts of are some of our events and she appears every week on the wire podcast you know when I was starting out in journalism very significant had all those opportunities so a lot of people talk about you know how challenging it is for young people entering this business now and that is true, but I also think that there are so many really exciting ways that they can tell stories that the bit little make a name for themselves and get noticed absolutely right and you know some volume reporters.

Are you know if storeys guinea pigs are national who are doing great work and the internet means that you can do that pretty quickly.

I mean you could always do that guests with newspapers but magazines it was always a bit harder.

I think to have that immediate impact and are they doing it every?

Every week now.

That's that's thrilling.

Do you have a reader in mind that because they're not just a reader there.

They're online and listening to podcasts and so on your I think that the person is is a really interesting thing.

Do you have a person in my person? Ok? So why person there is a white person so all the bits of research.

We do show that they are they tend to be pretty highly educated.

They tend to be incredibly that hard to reach they tend to want content that about the very interested in use they really interesting how the world obviously is changing and that's what we deliver.

I think we give them a sense of of of of how things might look in the next two or three years, but most importantly they are decision-makers and that's what I think.

It's really interesting about wide read is when you meet them is there are any position to make change and I think possibly that's why the brand appeals to them because they're thing.

Ring about what they can take from wired and what they learn in our pages now and I'll website and I'll podcast and actually applied in the real world and that's kind of when things get really interesting.

I think it's when you see the impact that you might have in the real world.

It must be incredibly interesting for you to meet your reader's then or your people at least live events and love those other things that you do it is it really is and what's lovely is that we do events internationally as well, so we have Consulting business.

We've done events in Singapore with an event in Bangalore property London and we have to have dinner scene universe European cities Paris Berlin Tel Aviv with an event in Seville last year one in Cologne so we obviously do eventim.pl like Berlin what's interesting is that are reader is pretty international as well.

They don't read this austerity things you know so it could be I don't know a Italian who lives in Berlin who actually is this is to give out moving to Isle Hotel

You have to do an artificial intelligence startup or something.

They are tend to be really thinking about sort of how wide can inform them about the sort of like the really significant changes that the world is is is undergoing so they tend to be pretty passionate as well about the Brand and we do hear back from them from them.

We get feedback and they want they want to feel involved.

They want to feel like to have a voice so live event is one way of doing that you know we we do without how many going to be going to do this year.

We're going to do 5 of them across this year and every time.

I meet someone who is a reader and I think wow that they doing something incredibly interesting and I'm really glad to know that wife had an impact on the knife me know your reader's a tech evangelist Zetec changemakers.

Why do I need them even ever take the paper version? Why don't you just get a can of USB stick in just stick in the back of their head? Why you have a print edition? You know what we were speaking about rolling out new products.

Come up the great idea what I'm present to my boss.

I need the print version.

I think is something that is innovative in its own way and then I think it is credibly beautiful.

It's really feel the texture of I'm glad you know you noticed that the special lacquer or something but it's like mottled.

It's not smooth sand but I thought it was something very fine-grained sand so yeah, I created director Andrew diprose.

That was one of his ideas.

So you really have that tactile Sensibility except physical differentiator I could pick up a copy of wired in the middle of the night and no that is a copy of wine.

Hopefully because it's well come through as well.

I think the what can do is way different obviously from any other format and I think the beauty of print is that you can open up spread of the magazine and it really just just makes you feel well.

This is a

Really interesting form of storytelling it allows us to go into Great depth with various can of the stories that we think her impact following important all the research suggests that our readers spending up between 2 and 3 hours with the with the magazine over the course of that you know it's lifetime.

This is something that is a, but lean back.

He knows a cliche but it really is something that you do when your son really enjoy your can't be able to relaxation.

We tend to sound ill very high volumes at when people are getting on airplanes and on trains and I think that that's because people actually have the time they're on plug two actually really get into the Brand and really think about how the the storytelling my impact they live and how can impact the world in the future, and I think what's great also about printers that you can just do things in ways that are for the surprising so one thing that we started doing recently is just giving a little bit more room to some of our long.

Long-form stories and maybe half in aceite 12 page story maybe halfway through we just put in a double page spread of a beautiful photo just because we can and I think that they're not exactly and if you have the kind of level of photography that we have then he said it.

It's a wonderful thing to be able to do Burnley complicit in the sensorless murdered of several baby trees.

We are obviously a very aware of the impact.

We have on the environment and we do encourage all our readers to recycle white orc.

Happening lovely binders on the shelves.

Do your reader's are your people? Do they have multiple touch points cos I mean eyed cat United do go on the website as well as subscribe to various newsletters.

I listen to the podcast.

Is is that the typical dynamic of other person? It is obviously how I kind of like a super lawyers who made you cannot consume all of our various products at then we'll have others who may be dip in and out.

Maybe they visit the website.

You know once or twice a month then we'll have people who have your own.

Come to our events because I love her events and my job as editor is to try and silicone it goes.

So that they doing everything you listen to podcast Academy newsletters their followers on Instagram they're also buy tickets for events.

I think that if you can encourage people in O2 really buy into that Brandon be passionate about the brand.

That's the best thing you can do it as an editor on your end and the biggest challenge for all editors.

Is you know maybe someone doing something that they haven't thought about doing because one of the things that maybe people don't talk about it off with with media.

Is that it is about in motion fundamental.

You were trying to provoke an emotional someone so that they feel strongly about what you do, and then they will invest time and and any resources it into your brand through had multiple red extraordinary moments of our events with people who share their stories with that someone escaping from North Korea and telling their colour story of escape or a guy who had become Paralyzed

And stood up and walked our event using an exoskeleton, and he's a really impact for moment and it's another way of telling stories and inspiring people and making people really kind of connect with the wild brand so we can work across these different you know platforms whether that's Instagram or whether that's a podcast and just try touch people's lives in it in it in a way that they find valuable arrival of artificial intelligence virtual reality and driverless cars into the mainstream our lives change of the next decade really fascinates mate.

I've got a Tesla and you're not I pressed the autosteer and it's just like Knight Rider is incredible and I'll even change lanes on the motorway mean it that my car is already driving itself yet certainly autonomous vehicles will have a huge impact.

So when finally we managed to kind of get through all the various benefits of legislation and policy in insurance companies agree that they are allowed on our street and the power of metadata as well.

I mean we can kind of see now in traffic with where is where you know?

You are informing your key contributing to the live traffic picture which helps where's be better for everyone that you know when when was cas truly do connect with one another in a joined up where they walk scene enter traffic.

Maybe so we're running story is a cover story on a company called Diddy last year which is the version of uber in China dominates the market place.

They're run by a woman called Jean Liu and what's intriguing about that companies.

Have you talked to her about the future her business is entirely involved with not just thinking about how people going to move around cities but actually it's a date.

It's a data business and her name is to make moving around City's pretty much sort of seamless so that you'll be in your Tesla at moving around and you won't even have to worry about traffic light ill move through at the city streets completely seamlessly up because ill know where every other vehicle is in real time and those are the kind of changes that I think that will see.

Not in the near-term that might be you know we might not get to see that Paul I'm afraid to say so not within our lifetime.

I think they will have autonomous vehicles within our lifetime certainly will we have no traffic lights? I find that hard to imagine especially in European cities given, how complex they are however you know there's the the old saying about you know we we we overestimate the arm The Departed significance of technology in the short-term and underestimated in the long-term.

Look at the inner businesses have grown in the last 10 years.

You know your Rubens your airbnb's all these services that would that we use we working out there are so many of them now.

That are is fast growth businesses that are part of our lives and there will be many more you know is there is a venture capitalist called Benedict Evans and he just you know he always says look technology never arrives at the point where it suddenly stopped.

We are at the end of the Beginning if you like so all.

Is Connaught consumer applications have been invented we are now going to be applying technology to the real world in really interesting ways in the future, so I mean Healthcare being a really really interesting example.

I do think technologies like artificial intelligence I can have a significant effect on health care in the next few years or whether that scene of predictive or whether that Santino enabling Dr spend more time with patients whether that's in drug Discovery whether that's in Uno various therapies that we can we can consider that and a combination of genomix an artificial intelligence going to be very powerful said that something to get excited about and certainly excited about it all by which figures in tech do you most admire all that's really good question I think the figures I most admire intake of people who are trying to do something because they believe that it will have a positive impact on the world now.

I think that there are a lot of people intake Who

Are very much driven by ambition and driven by you getting an exit and and building a business in selling.

It is not sure not inherently there's nothing wrong with that and I think there are a lot of people who maybe would have gone into banking and gone into other areas now thinking about going into startups because they want to make money however the people.

I think are you really going to make a difference in the world are the people that you know I can't make up my mind when you talk about figuring take I think it's probably people you know people that normally ever heard of a you know a working.

You know someone that me at Moorfields is working with artificial intelligence or are people who work in the background to help people gain access to credit.

You know something like a fintech app in Africa could potentially enable someone and entrepreneur toubro little bit of credit to build their business gives an initial identity those kinds of things really good.

An impact in the world so I think that they're all these businesses whether they admit fintech business as a Healthcare businesses whatever that might be that are really adding to the greater good.

So why Consulting very much has grown out of the editorial side of the magazine and the Brand and it's a way of Us working with some of our key commercial partners to help them future-proof himself 3 understand how the world is going to impact their business in the coming years so we work with some incredibly large brown people like shell people like forward to produce programs.

That will help you know either in education or in future proofing autistic of giving them a sense of where the Landscape is that could be a white paper that could be a workshop that might be introducing them to people within our network you can then give them kind of deep expertise in a particular area and I think the guy that powerful is that they look too wide as I can have a trusted brand in the the way that you know we are on objective voice we are we have?

Large network of journalist out in the world who were looking at you know whatever vertical they happen to be in whether that's energy or whether that's retail and we can offer a real insight into how the world is it is changing and how we know that will impact their business and and what the opportunities are coming out of that that's the main thing when I think that is so easy.

I think sometimes to think about you know disintermediation of every industry pretty much whether that's been checking whether that's health or education, but there are enormous opportunities out there and I think that's something that we're able to identify and that certainly something where able to work with commercial partners on our way edited the now-defunct men's magazine Arena Seymour mediabrands print brands like that disappear.

I think that print brands who have a lifespan sometimes.

I loved FHM back in the day, but I wouldn't buy it now and that's obviously there is likes close.

Yeah, I think that means so the dimensions are really.

Example of that, so you know look at the men's weekly's that kind of those they were phenomena successful for you know what two or three years, but sadly now they've all they've all gone and I don't think anyone who works in me.

He really wants to for the see anyone any any grants going to be no disappear, but they think that there are lifetimes fault for brand however there are also you know brands of whiskey that have great longevity.

You know look at you know company like Colin Aston Somerville brands of literally going around in the case of Tatler but obviously Pratt brands like vocab.

Got this incredible 0 residents throughout the world, so I think the what will see probably is subtitles.

Go to the wall if I don't have any relevance any longer and I think that's the key to it.

So late 90s Perth desktop publishing huge proliferation of new entrants huge proliferation and that lasted for a few years really until said like the incident a consumer internet became very powerful and then we saw.

Drop off at so I don't think it's necessarily a sort of like a a a bad thing.

It's just that some brands work at a certain time and they don't another time and I'm afraid that's just consumer tastes you executive editor of details magazine in New York how different is the publishing experience in the US that's a really good question it's it is very different.

I think I mean first of all the resource in New York is significantly greater than in the UK and I think that sometimes you can see that on the page you can see you know the fact checking and you could see the kind of like the care and attention to detail in top publications like the New Yorker other extraordinary, but I also think that's what the UK does really well, is that kind of scrappiness of getting things done we can turn things that round very very quick in the UK is slightly harder to do that in York City Christmas so much more kind of process to go through what I absolutely loved about working there was just working with people who were.

This is true of the UK as well, but in York there were people who really were working in Absolutely at the top of their game and you would get to see people he had the fact checker Who been there for you know however long donkeys.

Yeah.

I just everything out send through my copy.

I was everything you know maybe you have a story whatever and I would think this is pretty good.

This is pretty clean and it would come back through the did the publishing unit the content management system and it would be just ripped to Pieces ripped to Pieces by the copy editors ripped to Pieces by the fact checkers and it really wasn't a bottle of Bourbon it was a fantastic experience to to be able to see some of like how how they operate in New York and I hope that should have some of those are some of those experiences.

You know I've been able to sort of you know.

Bring back an employee back here in the UK what's next for you.

Are you going to upload your consciousness into the cloud and just become some kind of Meme well actually there's about father, but that's a ridiculous question I've ever asked in the entire history the podcast and I hope it doesn't get any to go out.

So please answer it there's about five me Paul I managed to borrow for me that would be brilliant imagine how much you get done I absolutely what's text.

You know what absolutely love what I do and I know that's not the I love you loads that for I know but I really genuinely do I just thinking about this this morning as I walked up the steps to my flawa wide is and I was thinking how fortunate I am I to have this job.

How 14 work out well.

Thanks for that.

I appreciate it, but you don't lots of my contemporaries.

You know work incredibly hard as well and and and and you know they have always had the opportunity to stay working in in in the Orient in in magazines and Prince I should say or or even.

Line, so I'm I feel incredibly fortunate and also you know I work at the company that still invests in journalism.

It still invest in amazing visuals that really cares about the products.

So yeah, I do feel like you know I will I will be doing this as long as I possibly can because I love it in our everyday.

I walk in and there's an amazing team.

They're all of whom or to tell great stories all of whom were thinking about new ways to can't get the brand out into new marketplaces and and you platforms and yeah, I'm incredibly happy and thankful where I am last question then there's a tradition Among US presidents that whenever they depart the Oval Office they leave a letter on the resolute desk to their successor, so the first thing that a brand new President reads is a letter from his predecessor and it's sometimes they made public sometimes.

They not but eventually when you do want to move on and you're writing a letter to can leave on the Editors desk for the next guy.

What would it saying it as a bit like the Year of the rat?

The prime minister has to write to the submarine commander isn't right with driving while they tried to say kill Em All that makes me so much because obviously this is not going to her but if it if it ever did what would be in the letter.

I think would be protect the culture and I think that's the most important thing like be entrepreneurial really think about how you can you can get the brand to people in as many ways as possible leaving the storytelling believe in the mission because I think that you know we do believe in telling complex stories at making them really kind of vibrant and light at the end and leave for our readers, but I think big part of my job is to protect the cultural wide and to encourage people to do their best work and I think there's been a few of us have been around for a while and the number one thing we do is we want people to come is that office everyday and do their best work because in my opinion and it says writer was a bit like a bit like strikers.

Got to look after them because it's a confidence game.

You know if you're an editor and writer feels good about what they doing at they feel that they are being out what you doing work, they find stimulating and they are refunding an audience then.

They will perform incredibly well.

It's when you know I think people maybe feel like they're not Bali like they're not doing work that they really care about that.

They've been clearly.

I'm not going to be up feel valued and I'll move on so the best way to get great work out of people is just too I think just ensure that they feel valued and to support them in in the good work.

They do you Legend thank you for your time.

Thank you for the enjoyed it right angles podcast in association with big things Media