Read this: How to win followers and influence people
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BBC sounds music radio podcast the media show from BBC Radio 4 what is influence and how is the internet updated it who betrays you want to buy what holidays to take even what politicians to vote for Rupert Murdoch used to do plenty of the latter well now his British subsidiary is betting that the future of marketing is shifting Evermore towards social media influencers whenever that might me whatever Happened agency called V that will use YouTubers and Instagram is to help brands sellers well stuff and it's even proposing that journalists from its own newspapers will get involved Oliver Lewis is the managing director of V all about good to see your part of News UK which owns the times and talkSPORT among other things I see you've got Giles Coren on board to use pictures on your website.
How many of the other journeys who signed up so far, so what will be told to me? We've identified poppy the top 25 across the new building at the moment.
Phil have I suppose a distinctive tone and form out on our social platforms because ultimately what we looking for is the not just a journalist within our core titles, but their identity and their lifestyle and and ultimately that social presence is probably as important to us as it is their professionalism as a journalism.
Do they know that their the top 25 now.
They don't you very nice to Goddard at the match for a little bit neglected open program, but I think ultimately we need to leave them download it just to try and find it.
We think of the poppy the nearest it within us our lifestyle categories to have to open up with them in ISO Charles has a powerful example because ultimately as a as a food critic for the times.
He has a very distinctive tone and form as a journalist, but that she owns Instagram account has a very different sort of parental Amy ultimate is a father talked a lot about kids.
I'm gonna very this here's our a different lifestyle.
Yeah, so yeah talk to me.
You need to look at the two identities of the earnest ok multiply tensors.
Was terrified so here is Emily Lavinia and actual social media influencer find her on Instagram as a sand boogie but Emily you don't like being described as a social media influencers that right.
It's not necessary that don't like being described as an influencer, but I think it's a little bit of a dirty word now.
There is what I've got myself a content creator but that's also because I'm a freelance content consultants, so wasn't contact you produce.
Lots of different bits and bobs with brands.
I work on social I create assets and she strategy and I also just too kind of blogs and long-form writing for them as well.
Good to see you Chris stokel-walker is in our Newcastle studio.
He's a freelance tech journalist whose just published YouTube is a book the charts.
How YouTube is born some of the most influential people in the world Chris is YouTube itself worried about how influential some of it start to become it is absolutely the keyword is our for responsibility at the minute and we have lots of these influences all content creators in the headlines like sargon of a cat.
It's probably better known as Carl Benjamin at the minute causing a few headaches for YouTube is a UKIP candidate is me he is a bit notable for what he's saying about Jess Phillips and other people at the minute.
Yeah, and it's been lots of them YouTube accounts have been closed down by YouTube in the recent past will get into that in a minute to Chris good to have you on board and Stuart brumfitt is here and it's of the face remember that back in the 1980s and 90s the face with the magazine which set trains and had influenced aplenty at then it shut down now its relaunch Stewart can a website for a web scene in 2019 ever be honest it can it ever be as influential youth culture at least as a cult magazine a generation ago to help them is so much content being created but I think the point with the face is always that can cure tauriel and that's what we're bringing to think it's really ok.
We'll get it shawty, let's get straight into influencers.
Whatever that might mean and Emily you only 18 boogie at blog you are 34000 followers on Instagram surely, there must be lots of people writing about lifestyle travel how to someone what can you offer the others, as it's quite interesting question cos obviously when people think about influences.
They do tend to think are they all the same day does narcissists there people that are basically self-obsessed that they're just making a living off of doing absolutely nothing but I mean I personally got into blogging because I wanted to be a journalist and I was interested in content and I was interested in you know all kinds of things that I thought was no one's going to let me write about them for their platform.
I'll just do it myself so in a way.
I kind of began as a self-serving action rather that wasn't writing for anyone but the moment I started writing about things interested me people started listening and they started following me and they started talking back to me, so I was like paying you.
How do you make money from her? Well that is it kind of hurt me.
Save me putting myself out there and talking about particular types of things so I block a lot about things like lifestyle beauty sex while this particular brands take interest and they contact me and I should have to pay for a sponsored post on your blog.
I prefer to work with female lead companies and independent companies in a lot of the time.
I'm not I'm not really stingy about it.
I'm not super business minded like some bloggers are so I don't just say this is my flat rate and slap a price on something.
I am always willing to negotiate.
I accept product as payment in kind.
So very much that you take from you take for a Blog sofa and paste for blood price for about £800 and for an Instagram post will be about 350 process.
How many words that's what I mean.
Standard rate of a newspaper that's amazing to this industry is born out of nowhere which were injured in you don't go to conventional route.
You create your own stuff on your platforms.
You get roughly the same amount of money.
Yeah, I mean I mean I did go to university.
I studied literature.
I've got to be a in it and now and then I've tried to become a journalist so my background is kind of Melissa De Sousa choices.
Do you go through a mental institution or do you build your own brand? Why did you choose that latter option is working out for you? Yeah, I mean I didn't really plan for it to but I I moved to London you know bright eyed bushy tailed.
I'll become a journalist not be great to be like Carrie Bradshaw what colours do you do best for because I noticed in some of your recent post who promoted text toys.
Yeah, I mean I found personally that I was reading lot of articles that promise me that they were going to tell me about something and then I'd read them and it be like.
Key quotes from an obgyn and I wouldn't learn anything and I found that that was for two reasons one was because a lot of the media platforms will posting these things they the higher ups were obviously let go into graphic detail about certain things on the flip side.
It was there lots of people were worried about people judging them or proving the pigeonhole because they were talking about sex with sex toys, but now obviously was saying like a real sex positive movement especially online because these Communities are able to reach so many different places and I've always been quite comfortable talking about that kind of thing and I think it intersects with women's lifestyle in so many different ways that if your woman's lifestyle blogger.
Why would you not talk about sex toys and it is your is your business essentially a scale game.
It's about the contents about your characters that your personality inequality what you do with it such a scale game in that the more you post the bigger the following the beautiful in the more you can charge.
Am I guess so I mean lots of Brands to relate your value to Hanley
Followers heathcot, I personally think that's rubbish.
I don't have nearly as many followers to some people but I have you know a way nicer community.
I have really good long-standing relationships with brands.
Did you have a nice? Can I say nice things about you don't like me hello there we respond Just For Girls Oliver Lewis in the 5th and there's in Commercial journalism institutional Jones if you like.
There's often quite high minded separation and principled won between separate between the church and state of editorial and advertising do you think your followers the ones you leave his nice comments and do you think that you're paid to promote stuff not stupid and these women that im writing for you know they've been reading women's magazines since they United's the picked One up that their mum was reading all their sister was reading they they know full well when they're being advertised to but that doesn't mean that they they care they being advertised to if they genuinely interested in something and I'm talking about it with authenticity and I appreciate it and I
Like it and they know that everything I talk about I personally back or would use I don't think the necessarily mind.
I'm turning a profit from talking about it doesn't the same principle as Emily's just very poorly articulated applies jainism.
Write the authenticity and the trust and loyalty that Emily's built with her audience is inherent within up with an all traditional Media environments as well as a transition.
I think at this couple of points Emily picked up on that I want to touch them as well that did it isn't a reach game anymore and it shouldn't be it's ultimately the depth of Engagement in the inherently you can you can apply scale and reach to any marketing campaign but what you really want to do is find community leaders who have built this incredible relationship and often or a one-to-one relationship with their how do you measure that so you can measure that ultimately by the depth of Engagement WhatsApp they have got that other means as you can the amount of Engagement that a social media post has whenever Emily's talking to her audience, but that's what we need to do a transition that too.
Measuring sentiment and brown favorability and actually only key challenges and influencer marketing generally is there it's been relatively unmeasurable up until I think now and it'll be the transitional pointed influencer marketing is going to move from becoming probably.
What was a PR game initially where was measured under and media value and reach if it's going to transition to becoming an integrated part of your marketing plan and traditional marketing.
I hate this can be up there against TV in traditional digital channels and print that has to be measured across the whole final that's what you want to do.
So you work when you work in use UK which is very proud journalistic organisation with huge pedigree of the as a marketing history and has Martin St genis des products conventional food to move into marketing is an agency housing practice were this were you going to be asking Giles Coren to tweet about washing powder how to sit in.
I think that's rugby for me.
I think I think it at the heart of this and depending on an anytime you want to work with identifying the right time for the brand.
Is is is most critical element of it?
Actually getting up Brand Match what you do and then we discover and build relationships for the likes of Emily and Talent and we put those two together and then we help them both and almost bring out an inclusive collaborative spirit to help create button campaign to promote red running shoes and you got a sportswriter we say that what is it is a few extra.
Great most important thing here as it's not just a journalist for working with so we would work we work with the whole wide universe message to Mrs live and what would you like to offer Emily perfect on the ideology of the type of time and we believe in which is that they have a kind of both traditional and and professional and storytelling ability like they are and that they have a talent that have a purpose.
They have a tone and form at this distinct.
They're not just trading their Fame to sell products, which I was wearing front of marketing made.
Got some of it's at the unit dirty Association is that it's all about trust and taking you have a million followers because you can charge x amount for it and it will help you sell more nicer way to get sense of what you're gonna ask Colin is to do some work on this project.
It will take brand opportunity to them when we think it's right and it will always have that means ok Sir Charles St Giles ik Giles as we won't look to take a big food or restaurant brand to him because then to some extent that's going to jeopardize integrity of his his column within the time so we might do as we understand the child spend a lot of time at the weekend, so can his kids on trips and the kids kids love the train journey.
You know that's what he's described the favourite part of their weekend excursion so they might might be in an excellent partnership for trainline or for a 32-bit his lifestyle and what he does is a social journalist.
It would be quite different way doesn't paper so we'll take the right between spittles minutes his decision right.
I need to take a photo which was.
Can you do that into the consultation with you? Ok? What is this form of marketing / advertising more effective than a traditional for Malaga TV ad who is it just about reaching different Williams's yeah? I think it's coming could be traced binding influencer marketing often if you have to take the people at the centre of it.
They are some she does need it companies.
You know they've got engaged audiences.
They've got time format their creative.
You know ultimately so it's a bit too similar thing to working with a traditional Media business like alright, but it's all it's a bit a route to new audiences and ultimately I thinks it's it's it's a differential now for my for marketers to test new forms to market an added and added piano part of the project.
Are you want to take on the stereotype of it and influencer? Would you say is a bit unfair? Why is an unfair and I think the influence of is a really broad term.
That is used to describe so many different types of content creators.
You know you've got YouTubers who are 1516 years old who are blogging about makeup.
From the bedrooms and they got millions of followers.
I'm not no I mean video never really appealed to me that much to be honest because I am a writer.
I got into you know because I was nearly a doctor of social media.
I learn how to do HTML alert how to do in like image editing and I learnt about networking and things just kind of rolled on from there, but I use camera take pictures, but that's all just because I was quite interested it and I was quite creative that will give it.
You weren't a videographer and this is something I've had to learn on the fly as well, so I can make videos now, but it's not one of those things or so, I kind of I'm a bit funny about talking to camera.
I'm not one of those influences.
I don't I can't really do that because I just find it fits in January Newcastle about how YouTube has eaten 1.9 billion users globally.
How big are the biggest stars on YouTube Rhapsody massive I mean the biggest name on YouTube is PewDiePie who has 95 million subscribers now not all of those watches videos every single day, but concentrated it's the size of a small country well actually quite a big one so these people are really connected and it's interesting than what we've been talking about for the past of 510 minutes in in terms of that connection and and what separates a traditional advert from a bit of branded content by a creator and we're gonna use that Tim because you're influence of these kind of a bit of a dirty word now and there's this thing called a parasocial relationship which it is basically the connection between the audience and The Creator in front of the camera and whether it's a steals all video or even some audio stuff.
It's it's a really intense connection that you don't feel with a celebrity.
So that's kind of why it works.
It's not George Clooney selling nescafe and you have no idea whether or not he's actually drink that you live the
People's lives and so if they do it right and they they get a good partnership, then you really believe that they do want this brand because he's a very different you mentioned celebrity inform.
It's a very different kind of Fame to a colour film star is now for one thing YouTubers produce more content of the table video today, then it some of it very very intimate and hyperpersonal.
Would you not like a film star where there's a sort of You released after a long period of time but also feel tight after this with ancillary parts of another brand like the film the part of the package was with you with PewDiePie he is the packet.
He isn't in basically these people are entrepreneurs that are creating their own businesses which is why it's really interesting to see how Oliver and music a kind of getting into this because a lot of these influences are creators as we will call them.
They they kind of like doing their own thing.
They like not having that oversight so trying to Rainham in could potentially be a difficult but that's why I wrote the book is to try and get people to understand this world.
I think what's really interesting Chris is a lot of influences talents.
Storytellers that we speak to you actually I looking for Roots into mainstream media as well.
I think there is a there's a desire to to create longer form content series and to get yourself off social channels is probably the best way to do that because the depth of Engagement you see on radio and on TV and printing and ending in traditional journalism.
Forms is probably suits a lot of our aspirations and ambitions and that's the bit which one to tap into this is only my 2 digit about YouTubers has it was it was meant to get to where it is now.
I mean was the original vision about using basically LAX copyright laws to disseminate material that already exist or is it about lowering a barrister entries of people Emily could be entrepreneurs be a new generation to become self publishers.
It was kind of a bit of both the copyright infringement in the early years if YouTube was a result of basically having an open platform in the idea was to democratize the internet and to democratise the media so we think about all The Gatekeepers I mean everyone of Us in studio in London
Here has gone through a traditional Media background of some sort almost and with the exception of Emily and and we had to go through Gatekeepers and people in hierarchy in official companies with positions who can always say no, where is the big thing about social media and YouTube and Instagram Snapchat and Twitch is that you don't have to you can literally just be a person in a bedroom with a camera and a desire to do something completely bizarre and you can build up an issue of millions.
Yeah, there are 4000 YouTubers at the end of 2018 you had more than 10 million subscribers now compare that to the reach of a traditional TV channel.
I mean, I don't think BBC1 headlines get even that sort of number and how much money they took was making how it can you get what the highest earning YouTuber last year and cool 22 1/2 million dollars now.
What's particularly interesting about that is that it's not Pewdiepie it's not so well.
It's not any of those people is actually an eight-year-old boy called Ryan who unbox.
Satoshi open some plays with them on camera and reviews on for a living which is this is the new media and envious people are eating or lunch as traditional Media participants are great, but it's a growing body of Evidence that suggests but basically are we doing anything definitive basically about what living your life in his super shared constantly in front of a lens kind of way, what effect does it have on people's mental health.
We don't year old me for goodness sake this is a thing we don't and end in this is what I mentioned in the book.
Is that there are lots of different concerns about this.
So there are for instance as you saying 8 year old living their life in front of a camera.
What happens when they grow up and they realise actually they might have made a fool of themselves.
I'm 30 and when I was a kid what you would do as you would watch things like the X Factor or pop stars and you would save right.
I want to be a pop singer and you would go to your bathroom with your bathroom.
You would stand in front of the mirror with a hairbrush and you would start singing but what happens when that's actually recorded and it's put online for potentially millions of people take before just feel get into the face which is a very.
And kind of influence and I'm sure it's true to say it an equal weight of infants Emily I want to hear from you about that the effects on mental health of people people who do Celtic this extraordinary intense You Cheryl culture and a lot of the work that I do now I do with time to change your mind because I myself experience and seeing lots of people who are not implemented as it was use social media feel absolutely terrible because they're doing this compared and dispersing or they feel like they constantly have to be uploading we have to be present visible and then living through an augmented reality they're not living there real life which is also.
I don't really do video because I want to be able to just experienced something.
I'll take a few pictures and then that's it.
Do I enjoy what I do.
I wouldn't do it a good moment to move on to the face magazine.
She's a very different kind of influence.
It was launched first in 1982 became a massive influencer of music fashion and Pop Culture in it.
It featured the likes of Madonna Kate Moss and Robbie Williams on it's coming then in 2004 saffron from falling sales the magazine was closed but fast forward 15 years and The Face has been relaunched in digital form with an occasional print Editions follow later in the year Stuart brumfitt.
Is the editor of the new magazine? I'm sure it will bring it back.
I mean a music publishing house and then mixmag in Quran and hadith of the third in that house, so he is a big believer in magazines and in this brand in particular and he brought it back.
I've come on board as editor.
I was reading the tail end of it a huge fan of it and it is a teenager I did yeah.
I know it's a portal into the amazing world basically and that's what we hope.
It's going to continue to be what kind of stuff you going to do is it is it for your subscription based?
We've been like a music magazine InStyle magazine general culture and and moving for everything from the really underground new stuff to more popular Main Street what influence do you have to have well, where does 11 working on the Tomb Raider just you know really in tonight clubs fashion music and we want to report on that right about that interview the key people in this field.
So you want to report on a culture or part of the culture.
That is currently neglected.
I think what's going to sing with if you look back to the archive in the face the mix of story is it's quite fast and really cannabis quite classes as there's quite in-depth war stories.
There's interviews with celebrities that fashion shoots as all this mad mix of things which is what I loved about is a teenager and I think with a lot of style magazines in particular and style magazine websites.
Is there sometimes getting there getting a bit more niche and getting.
Really kind of Folkestone with particular area and we're going to bring back the UK Broad Oak general feel that they reflect kind of people social media feeds in a way that it was actually how important I think social media will be to building your audience online and and how you've looked at for different storytellers.
He might be a bring two titles that part of the yummy social media to use we've already got in a grain Instagram following we've got working with a community of faces who people who we think is really relevant in the culture.
Lots of you have big social media followings and we're developing.
That's not what you doing.
There are people who chipping in like social media stories people who are if size is a big are doing a big cigarette gay pride or something and we can then reach our community and they can help feed into stories Chris local Walkers does this sound to like an exciting proposition.
It says he never really influences days Israel
Singer magazine the way to go was approached by Stewart to pick some ideas to the face.
I probably come from there any interesting that I was actually um what Stewart's just said there in terms of approaching influence themselves and you see how much the power dynamic could shift it in that sense so yeah, I did a story for a squire featuring a big YouTuber about 18 months ago and the initial discussions around that were very very tough because that influence who was saying well.
Why would I bother to do a story with you when your audiences you 35 or over and you only have you a few 100000 readers when I essentially have access on filtered to millions of people so that there is just really interesting power dynamic where we are kind of in a world where influences are required to be part of a brand in a media alarm as a shunt because otherwise.
You just don't have access to live here from the other day.
It was so strange to you if you wanted him to direct consumer relationship.
She could just go straight out to 24000 people on Instagram what's the point of mediating it through a magazine.
I think of people kind of respect and appreciate our treatment of things and obviously the face isn't just about the face the point of a face of magazines isn't just about creating content in this kind of in that kind of the point is what treatments like what rice can we get on a project photographers to me work with what graphic design can we do it so much can a big Abroad I think I'd still buy magazines cuz I want to hear a diversity of voices.
I follow other blogs because I want to read about different things and of course the family I feel like I think it maybe it's a millennial thing but I've got a real thing for print magazines and I think we all have and we always will do heritage.
Will never be able to replicate we can live in all platforms anchor point for creativity across radio and print and end and that's what we we think is the future has started by asking how the internet has updated influence Letts cem test how hard you will be listening to and quarter show the quick roundtable how many first would you how has the Internet changed influence has it changed? It's completely democratized information.
So you can reach anybody anywhere doesn't matter who you are as Mario background.
You can reach out to somebody it and they can hear what you have to say within seconds historical Walker it's made it more authentic.
We've mentioned that would a few times.
It's basically thing that makes the lifeblood of this new space is authenticity so rather than being filtered through 17 different layers you are yourself.
Christopher Walken as we just had Chris stokel-walker and Stuart you have influenced 1984 Robert De Niro it's amazing book called influence in the head six principles a few years ago.
He had to update it because the Internet has had such a big impact and Influence so how has influenced changed? How has the Internet changed influence in recent years has given free access to putting whatever they want out there that inclusive relatable.
It's allowed small entrepreneurs to build Communities and and and and be creative in in a way that they couldn't have before accessing innovation Media is increasingly more difficult you needed to be you need to have traditional background and it's a lot of money that before no bad thing right guys.
Thank you very much did inclusive as well as the managing director of V social influencer and Emily
Video Christopher Walker author of YouTubers and Stuart brumfitt, who is the editor of The relaunched the face don't forget you find me the show on BBC sounds and subscribe to the podcast and see you sometime next week.
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