Read this: How the media sells us gender equality

BBC sounds music Radio podcasts from BBC Radio 4 hello remember the days when the adverts with better than the programs stop arbeloa the bike campaign from 1973 is the as good today as it's always been unlike some of the ads from the olden days, because the advertising regulator in this country has just introduced new rules banning add that feature harmful gender stereotypes men aren't useless at housework, and it's not just Mum who cooks the dinner to the castle this and find out why a producer Richard has just allow me to indulge my passion for the Ashington Colliery brass band let me introduce you to our guess.

I'll start with Lynn Parker because she knows about the other very much related.

Topic will be looking at this afternoon.

Lynn is the founder of funny with him at a comedy community and she's a supporter of a new project from ITV which is banning all male writing teams on their comedy shows Lynn welcome phone.

I just seem to be mislabeled funny women exactly community female comedy we help women to perform right and also do business with humour and there we go escalator pitch.

We we we work very much in the comedy world a runner and national even international competition for female comedians writers filmmakers performers at which is running right now.

I'm hot off the road.

I've just seen 200 female comedians live around the country goodness.

Solicitors Crawley don't think much about the writer's by comedy shows on TV for instance.

How many of them entirely written by men there's quite a lot of misogyny and

Overindulgent spy male writers and producers but I do think there are some brilliant brilliant female writers out there the the obvious the one that's being all the plaudits at the moment with Sarah Phoebe waller-bridge and and fleabag which is taking the World by Storm let's not forget she also wrote The Amazing killing Eve which is yes, it's it's a horror genre, but it's also very funny very good and I think that is really changing the the whole sort of signature of of women's writing ok guy parker-rees her chief executive of the advertising Standards authority gynae relation to Lindsay don't prefer to be making them probably Honda cog.

Because it was great.

What's your favourite bad? What's happened to that but forgotten it's the one with the parts of the ending to each other than the Chain Reaction and what's your favourite band? Dad I'm not going to say you have to get slightly more in dispute over the course of next 24 months over work on that will work that Charlotte here.

Is his yes, it does make advert.

She's a senior creative out the agency dark horses and also co-founder badass gal wich champions your women in the creative Industries Charlotte I'm going to quiz you about that Hovis advert.

Can you tell me which very famous film director no no interactions which famous film director was responsible for it? I my god you just came in this part and I hate that nothing no no guy I can't load stuff and I know I'm old enough to remember.

Who is it.

Show me the map on the line from can we have one of most powerful women in the industry LED Santos is the head of global Marketing from for Unilever which is one of the world's biggest advertisers cause any need a great and the good of gathered in Cannes for the famous Cannes lion festival suite, can you tell if you've just had lunch with lyrics I said there was a I said there was a reason I played the Hovis advert Lee can you briefly tell us the story of how when he's got change the course of your life well as you can stay over from my accent.

I'm from Brazil and I spend my whole life in Brazil and I had this most wonderful childhood in Brazil till the day that a movie from Hollywood came to Brazil that movie was one of the movies from Ridley Scott called alien and when it landed in Brazil or the translator got the number name of the film wrongly and then they call it allini.

Does my name so instead of alien abk Malini and out of the Sentinel Heaney became the most so it's cool.

I was bullied by everyone Eileen in the months ahead yeah, it was horrible and it was seeing a really troubling me and my mum said you know what I mean it.

You just go and watch this bloody movie if that's what I've done.

I went to the movie and Leroy knew that that movie was going to change my life because they're watching that movie it was the first time in my life that I saw a woman that was the big boss.

She was the lead that she was in a killing all the monsters.

She was going over leadership exactly she was Sigourney Weaver she was playing Sergeant Ripley and it's one moment.

I really believe that she look at me angiolini wake up early to go you can be whoever you wanted to be and then that wasn't very pivotal moment in my life.

Where are you now? It completely revised what I wanted.

2BR Charlotte Lidl at Nottingham theatres quadratic Sigourney Weaver spider lot of people have a great to have you with us.

We're going to come back to you.

Very shortly.

I do want to get into the news.

It's around 11 or 2 Days by the Sea of the advertising Standards authority tell us about these new rules.

Yes, we are putting a new rule.

You must include gender stereotypes are likely to cause harm in at the alongside that we brought in some formal guidance that sets out where we likely to draw the line, so obviously you can carry on showing a woman doing the shopping in an ad or Amanda DIY but the message of the ad is that it's a woman's job to clean up the house if the message of the ad is that a man is in capable of doing pretty basic tasks like changing nappy or work in the washing machine.

Just cause of his gender then watch out of you said have you stopping ok? You say that causes harm is causing us.

To have a narrower sense of what we can do in life and it's causing others to have a narrow sense of what we can do in our lives to we know that these gender stereotypes the pictures of roles and characteristics of a particular impact on children.

How do you know that because the research tells us that they internalize this sort of stuff.

They think that careers are all out for them boys.

Think that there could be manly and tough and I can't show their emotions.

I'm only at ads on causing all the bits, but I had to part of Italy playing to allow creocote.

Ok, let's try and Jessie's new rules.

I know you probably won't want to but sorry it isn't excuse to play some more out of the olden days.

This is an ad from flash from 1995 the only thing I'll be scrapping tonight at those things.

We love you.

Don't play with your rubber duck in the last thing you want to do is mess around with tough stains you need flash XL it makes.

Top marks for caravans the hard work, so you don't have to go there to take the adverts all feature the stereotype of a lazy husband who didn't like doing housework was motivated by sex would that kind of the pictures of men being sexual today and if they did then? No, I think that would be that will be dodgy territory.

Look most businesses illegal telesis Ltd for most businesses.

Get this and a moving away from this anyway ok to Jenny we're not there yet.

There are still some companies and some ads that appear that we think do cross the line and those of the ones will stop but I like listening to Astra 1955.

This is an advert from a bit more easily.

This is for sneakers from 2018 which Mr T from the 18th confront a speedwalker with a machine gun that fires chocolate bars.

Show me sticker that's a pity you fool funny does the ability does to pick speed walking as an effeminate Sport with that pass your new rules then probably not sure can mitigate but it isn't carte blanche excuse alright because the message can still come across remind me of another had recently featuring some lads in a fast food outlet and they were knocking one of their mates because he was showing his emotions and he had clearly bought a scented candle from 1984.

I know I haven't you before yes, it is foreign notice is not a handbag as she has Alison dolly will love it.

No NIC no garlic and Michael

Amanda Preston that was the oxides that used to feature Lynda Bellingham is a housewife, who are the sole job of making tasty family meals should quit with that one pass muster today possible regulation and then they changed the day show the dead now using Oxo cubes to the heads and tails good example of a company that it does advertising today still have a problem stereotypes of crowds entertained ASDA TC and that this is not only a social problem.

This is also business problem and that there's a lot to be done.

That's why a couple of years ago.

We started something here in can call them stereotype Alliance group of other big companies corporations like Unilever Procter and Gamble Johnson and Johnson but also all the social media companies and other begin with advertising networks.

Stata create new guidelines and to you no understand amungus ourselves, what would be the best way as an industry to move and together banish stereotyped.

What are your biggest brand that Unilever is lynx deodorant that famous for the lynx effect campaign of 20 years ago was so one of the lads.

They're featured man spraying lynx on himself then being chased by thousands of scantily clad women of unilever's own advertising from the past would now be considered quite offensive word bio means that is very different from what is the position of Acts today? I don't have you seen the latest campaign but this is really inviting men at to find your magic because everyone has different ways of of expressing themselves yet.

No need to think about the stereotype of a mentor day is so difficult to be a man today.

You have to be reach you have to be a big businessman.

You have to have 6 bags you have to be successful know by

He's like that maybe you are I don't know who this person is an assistant work when you mention the the new research that unilever's done and you measure your commitment not using them in your adverts.

No wonder the extent to which that commitment applies in all the countries around the world that you up for example.

How do you depict women in campaigns that running and a Saudi Arabia in into the topic and then as you know you know about it is present in 170 countries, so we don't do one out for the hungry than 70 countries.

We have a lot of a local is occasions, so we are pushing the boundaries every in every place where we go and as much as we can so the same as a crucial that you seen the UK you cannot assume that we are earring it in Saudi Arabia pushing pushing the boundaries in Saudi Arabia actually mean a country where women are supposed to be grateful for the fact that the monarch is allowed them to drive recently.

I mean what you do if the principal is there an advert sexist in one country.

Why shouldn't that apply to all your countries.

So I can give you an example for me and I would not have one at the top of my mind about Saudi Arabia but I can talk about another society that is considered a very traditional like India as pushing about pushing the boundaries.

I mean I like a campaign that we had for Brooke Bond one of our brands of tea brand in India which we were showing our band and this band was a band of six and transgender people and you know but that aside for that kind of community that they never seen anything like that on TV and the we push the boundaries there and said oh, we we wanted to know my lies is we want transgender people to be featured on TV and we knew that we are going to take some risks.

We knew that some people will not like it.

We knew that we are going to lose some in our consumers and in fact we did but the game anymore and the new ones that we got your own much more loyal tool brands.

I think I'm better better human beings as well and the brand is growing from strength to strength.

Ok.

When will you do forgive her earlier to bring Charlie to speak to his advice as well Charlotte your senior creative at the agency dark horses.

He's one of the reasons why advertising is in the past featured these kind of stereotypes because it's a profession dominated by men simple answer.

Yes, but I think there's more to it than that.

I think it's like the teams that can rabbits need to reflect from the real world and I'm see the real world isn't just men everywhere there are so many different people so it needs to be like to have a snotty and gender bias in ethnicity and socioeconomic background disability and say a jeevans.

I think a room full of women isn't going to solve a problem with infinite men isn't going to solve problem.

We need to have like diverse teams that actually working on a project.

I really rushed that earlier said only around 10% of creative directors.

These are the people without a key role in touch with devising the adverts are women.

Why is that in it and again? I think there's you know that phrase.

I can't see it can't be it.

There's a distinct lack of female role models in advertising.

There's obviously a very small percentage of creative directors that women in London I think it's 12% and therefore is intimidating as a young woman coming into advertising when you're going into work in a business which is predominantly men it is intimidating but if you sort of it's very masculine.

It's very much virement so it becomes challenging for young women to I suppose have their voice heard especially if they aren't as I suppose have as much masculine traits in one of the articles that I was reading on the way here is a comment about it all being beyond gender.

It is it's not just about women in the room.

It's about time of a certain age and I get very angry about how older women are are presented in adverts.

You know where not all on viking River Cruises and yellow mashing up the washing up whatever in the

Can you know I mean a lot of us are still out there working and there is a wonderful project called the UN invisibility project which has been launched by wonderful woman called Jane Evans and it's all about promoting women 50 plus into into creative roles.

I mean the biggest problem is there are not the dinner agencies.

Don't employ enough female creatives of all ages however when you hear that Lynda Bellingham OXO ad that's a tricky one Assad actually cos she passed away.

I believe as an actress, but also it's out of step.

It's kind of you know.

I've made you a nice casserole and now you want to get in my knickers.

You know I'm not sure that is what women these days.

Do my love say that a bit you're in good ok, but I do know I don't like that sort of you know we've got a policeman saying I don't think we like that anymore and 6 year old daughter as well.

She's not like.

Fat quarter Leonie Woodward Unilever consider boycotting advertising agencies that don't have a balance of men and women on their creative teams today at lunch.

You know when you when you have your agencies yet, you don't demand things because you don't demand things to Partners and we are walking the talk together.

There are some agencies that working for us for the hungry years, so they know exactly where we stand about this so far the last 10 years are in a progressive way of including more people more they versify day teams in the other brands some of our brains almost run in a end-to-end by women yeah, because you know it's it is the right thing to do in some cases, but it's not only about women is about race is about a religion.

It is about level of education is about that so many different dimensions that are super interesting for us and what we discovered is that when you have a modified a diversified group of people.

The work gets the more and stereotyped the day work gets more creative and the best thing is that when the work gets more creative because his sister is unstereotypical we get 37% more Brenda impact 28% more purchase intention 35% more enjoyment so it's a win-win is good for Society but is also good for business again any proof that you'll be here with me with a Shoal of hurling.

Match is on there in Britain at the moment.

Many would say that if you just highly unrealistic depictions of male and female bodies that you that Unilever run a commercial only featuring many women who look like love Island contestant, but presumably you wouldn't think twice about buying slots in the ad breaks for Unilever products.

We are having with all the channels.

We are more in a interested in the counter that they never we don't want it to be investing our Dollars are behind programs at that are not walking the talk in terms of Uno.

Portrait of people ok Charlotte how do you feel about fact the US have you met a guy before now? He's your regulator.

How do you feel about the fact about a regulator saying what you can and can't put an advert any night.

I think this is to think that this is an issue for me to not be able to be creative with just be stupid as I think rightly in today.

Yes, where we've got to sell toothpaste gutsell cereal, but we don't need to use stereotypes.

Do that I think of anything we need to be creative and we can show a depiction of the real world and actually do it without that.

I don't think it's actually really late if it if it's if it's a matter of principle and it's wrong in principle to have had that perpetuate sexist stereotypes.

What is it ok to advertise in newspapers or during television shows that perpetuate sexist stereotypes, am I don't think it's ok, but there is huge.

Love Island is a hugely powerful commercial proposition that makes money doesn't it? I mean you know that's the

What are your perpetuating it? What what happens if that you know somewhere along the way brands are attracted by what they're attracted by the Enormous audiences and the public love that stuff.

You know how can you I mean.

That is down to the public demands.

We're going on at the moment particular driving the pursuit of more diversity.

They wouldn't dream of working for companies.

They didn't know walk and talk you know a good edi strategy and yet.

They're probably more likely to be following people with perfect bodies on Instagram and what you look like with its very weird mention the head of comedy ITV announcer Monday and unitive very similar to what we just been talked with the with Advertiser comedy 50/50 able to get more women working comedy and she says it should no longer commission shows with all mail Ryton teams your company funny women sign up for the project.

Why is ITV done this now Saskia Schuster who's the head of comedy and indeed a number of other senior commissioners for other broadcasters we generally I think we all feel very strongly that the writers room has been extremely male and that's where you get a room for the people that come together to write a sitcom or a comedy show and all the unit all the panel shows will have a writing team and historically it's been a bit a bit like the comedy circuit that I inhabit it when I started funny with me up in 2002/2003.

It was very blokey and women couldn't get gigs in over the tops of theories as to why that happened so you have to create an environment that is inclusive and it can't just be a boy's club and I think that Saskia feels quite rightly that by bringing more women into the room you will have more more female voices the men working with the women will.

Understand the way women thing and you get that is just like a business together balance and you get a much more realistic view of life through.

I mean comedy is obviously a reflection of Life cultures and societies a lot of the actor amazing comedies that coming through at the moment are being written by some extremely townswomen if it's if there's a rule about the writers room which is not see that might have a beneficial impact should nails to be real, but they're panels were there.

Isn't that there was the famous one here at the great BBC and about received all over the planet isn't and I don't know I've never known whether it was an enforced thing or not, but there was a lot of criticism about that at the time and in the days.

Just put more women on panel.

Shows I get very angry the chicken as I work in the world of comedy raises thousands of brilliant female comedians and they'll put a soap star on a panel or you know or we're still a love Island contestant on a panel they.

Don't take risks that I mean is changing I know that you know Katherine Ryan his one about past winners of the award she she does a lot of programs now.

She's on panel shows a lot.

There is a match up with that very very quickly without early today.

I buy one of those from you.

How busy is this new rule going to keep you have adverts.

Do you think the next year 4 answers you can say you can't have that on here because it's fit reinforcing gender stereotypes that matters in a manner of speaking the the good that's going to come from is running the guidance is the change that it promotes and if business has changed, then we won't need to be very busy at all which means you'll be able job to be terrible, That's that's it for today.

I'm so sorry about to have my pug I park in a relationship before now.

See you next week.