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Read this: #117 - Facebook’s currency; Kyle’s lie detector; ITV’s gender balance; Eastenders’ ratings

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#117 - Facebook’s currency; Kyle’s l…



Hello and welcome to the media podcast I'm only man on today show can Facebook's new currency save its relationship with media companies that gender balance is rewritten at ITV and the televised lie detector has been permanently unplugged plus the government spawn block legislation is delayed again and in the media quiz how guests try to guess who made which prescient prediction about modern life.

It's also come in today's Media podcast and me today is Iain Dale LBC presenter and breakout star of The Conservative leadership hustings? I didn't even know it was going to be a new was going to be on the internet, but I didn't know that sky news on the BBC we're gonna do all 2 hours of it, but given the revelations about Boris Johnson the.

I suppose it was inevitable.

And it was it was quite uncomfortable experience in some way because I knew I was going to get an adverse reaction Frankie whatever I asked and I had to ask it.

Have you imagine if I sat there and just ask Boris Johnson about brexit and not even mentioned the elephant in the room and I said to Brandon Lewis the Tory Party chairman on the way up.

I said I will get booed for this and that was though it wasn't just people booing me it was actually they were quite a lot of people shouting out answer the question which that got to the slightly covered up in in the media coverage of it all but I need a question.

I was going to ask him so I stayed I thought he would give some sort of answer, but he didn't get any answer tallest I talk about Routemaster buses so I had to continue with it and then did you feel that pressure that did you know at the time you were being broadcast on the BBC I did at that point so did you feel that your audience was bigger than the audience in the hall and did that change the way your prayers be not really went through my mind.

I just I don't believe in wargaming these things are.

That can become very static a lot of Andrew Marr says he will wargame all his interviews now for him.

That works for me.

It doesn't for me or has to be spontaneous and I'll admit the first question wasn't spontaneous for the rest of it.

I just did as I went along and I look I knew there was a lot of interesting it clearly because and a lot of lobby jealous for texting me all throughout the morning about socking else.

It's alright you which I found quite insulting so I could cause I was going to ask if I know someone's I look we relying on you because we're not going to get to interview him.

I did an interview Theresa May a couple years ago which got huge amount of coverage, but this was like 10 times more than that it was a really weird feeling and the social media reaction was interesting were initially most people saying well done.

E&l.

You had to ask a question, but as time went on the Tory tribes started circling the wagons.

How could you even ask a question the first place outrageous invasion of privacy but it wasn't actually he's running for prime minister is.

Perfectly legitimate question to ask it talking politics also with us today making her mediapad debut senior analyst at Edelman and host of primarily 20/20 podcast Karen Robinson hi so primarily 2020 is about the Democratic primaries in 2020 so excited about the politics policies and personalities in the Twenty20 primary because we've got 24 candidates have 25 of an hour.

I haven't received so many that we couldn't fit them into two back-to-back nights of debates of 10 people Eve so we had to cut some people out.

So it's am there's a lot going on over there.

I'm living here in the UK or parallels between the way the media covers the Conservative Party leadership challenge which actually is truncated only a month now versus the Democratic primaries.

Persons with the Tory Party leadership, I think you got a smaller number of candidates and you've not much kind of more immediate quicker process, so I don't think that's the case because here let's be honest.

It's kind of all about Boris Johnson from the beginning with you know lots of cuddles for rand in the Democratic contest.

I don't feel like we have Joe Biden who's the kind of frontrunner in terms of the total is getting but I think there's a rough feeling it could be anyone and I think the media and the public I kind of excited by that feeling of like people just coming out the woodwork.

Literally could be anyone pages this young mayor from a Small Town in Indiana and it came out of nowhere and is now frontrunner you got a lot of really serious candidates of all kinds of background the people who don't know where it where it's going to go and then in the background of that.

There's a big kind of internal debate of the democratic party.

You're having about how we prioritise our policy agenda vs.

Just get to get Donald Trump out under any circumstances and so

Animal Drummer Boy Hilton is here as well for the podcast entertainment director of heated that still the tiles-direct you have become Grandmaster Yeti with empower every quarter last time you were here.

Yeah, that was going to be a monthly quarterly and it comes with empire and the new shoes out now.

You were nothing along when the Earth was talking about politics watched Ian's and marvellous tint on the hustings.

I'm on Saturday Saturday and we're going to talk but it will I think you and my Emma Barnett for example 5 Live have become hugely of mind starts because of the way you handled these people these these contenders and Emma Barnett interviews different you know standings for the Conservative Party leadership challenges every day and she absolute ever States and it's a brilliant entertaining, but it's things like that.

She does doesn't it because yeah, what's happening is people dropping in on people's shows with an hour before broadcast.

Right, but there are broke up his back quality that can do those interviews should be proud, but it's incredibly satisfying when an interviewer asks the questions you want ask you know Anna complete fast and it got to that.

We couldn't even hear what some of them were saying in their temp to explain how the hell they going to get brexit through when Parliament in Oaken stop it all of that and it was feeling it was ever to disaster.

Where is she was really let down my guard down by the people who did that and that was a prime example of a program that was designed by committee mean Karen from American point of view is it ridiculous that it seems Boris Johnson is going to be a prime minister without any further TV Debate and I think your whole leadership system this is obviously different than others.

I was really taken by the Nick Ferrari interview because I think the thing that got the plane that was that you have to do question ever get there is a piece of the end of the interview after it was supposed.

20 front room went for it because it was like Boris was ready to stay alive and well.

You know you're avoiding scrutiny Nick Fury and then he just came down with question after question.

Did you taking drugs? Have you done this time? Would you like to go now? Where can I ask you a question like that's gonna be question it was it was really interesting because I thought they don't quite friendly in previous interviews but that one with personal professional point of view in a lot of people so well.

If you can't stand up to scrutiny for me and Dad and Nick Ferrari who most people would think was sympathetic towards him.

That's a bit of an issue.

Ok for anyone who's listening to this on Monday or later in this conversation already sounds very antiquated.

Let's move on to some of the other media stories of the week and media companies should be liable for Facebook comments made by the public on their pages.

This is according to a judge's ruling in Australia this week.

I'll say that again at judge's ruling in Australia so caring.

What does this mean for Hamid

Companies use Facebook in Australia but actually around the world as if they need to pre moderators comments on Facebook but Facebook doesn't allow for pre moderation the tool doesn't facilitate you to do that if you're a page where you can block comments until they've been until it arrived you can use some tools to promote a specific types of language like the c word for example you can block them from appearing, but you can proactively blocking content until it's gone light but under this judges ruling companies will not be liable for what people post from Facebook I think this is really a big threat because if this became and I think the judges ruling may be overturned because it's just technologically important and difficult impossible, but it is impossible in the framework if this were to be upheld and if this one that being the case they would I have to change her other two were quite funding.

I think page 102 so that Facebook is too big of legal liability and risk for them.

It's just Facebook as if you when I've been to my debates of the toilet all interviews of the Tory leadership candidates on YouTube full stream live then you have the comments down the right hand side which only male literally half an hour before I came to do this from an Asian listener who's 10-year-old daughter is actually quite interested in my program is Ollie and she was saying that she has to stop her looking at these live interview so she doesn't see the comments is often have no relation to what your interview the person about but they are filled their disgusting that they are just things that you wouldn't want anybody to see now that they couldn't be pre moderated.

It's effectively a live chat room but if anyone is going to be responsible for them legally surely in that case is YouTube not you have you just seems bizarre that the platform that is allowed the comments is apparent how to get away with it at the people that are hosting the Debate the people commenting on there.

They held liable for it.

Yeah, it's ready.

This surely is a case of a judge not understanding the technology, isn't it that that I feel he's seeing you know you could show the publication you could show the article and then underneath that the comments they're all being published effectively on Facebook go via the third party application and the judge not really understand.

I don't know for sure but just get the sense that doesn't fully understood the process by which this happens.

It's not like you know if your if you click on a publications website and they have a they haven't comments section and people making clearly elite no legal or offensive or whatever comments and they're not pre moderated and I get published and there and it's libellous and surely they held to account in this case it's completely bizarre peculiar feels I just had not understood the process and is arguing calendars that you could because of the kind of filter that you did describe earlier where you can filter out to see where it could filter out prepositions or like that and and so then it is every comments and then they could moderate it's they make excuses for themselves.

You could effectively break the system.

So that it doesn't work as intended and therefore it's your fault as opposed to the system fault and I don't I don't buy into that argument legally I do think I have a lot of sympathy and it's saying for the fundamental problem in particular content that entertainment oriented that's fine, but people consuming news are subject to a lot of purely defamatory hostile misogynistic races horrific content in the comments field if they should look for it and I don't think that we need to tolerate that the subjects that all forms of social media on Twitter Twitter is now cesspit of of that you know if your if your person of any of any level of Fame factory oppositely woman.

They don't seem to do something about that all these Twitter handles with lots of numbers of the most of which are probably come for Russia or what they want who knows but the Telegraph they stopped having comments on any of their articles because they just decided that they didn't want to be.

Associated with this kind of thing anymore.

I wonder what it might mean for to use a horribly wanky zeitgeisty phrase people's personal brand as opposed to meet your organisation's though because you deserve Tommy Robinson's of the world the way they've been using Facebook is they've posted up things which they very carefully Walk the Line will be able to defend as not libellous and not extreme and they pushed it.

Just as far as they can go within the law on the basis that in the comment underneath people say all sorts of hideous racist homophobic nasty things and that's not them that their fanbase the way of energizing people who have a coded warning but then take a step further comments, but it tells you say was ansible for it if their motivation is what you say it is it is very odd because the other people who are posting all these horrible things underneath surely.

Tell us exactly what they are really like if they weren't allowed to have people posting.

I wonder if there are posts would become that much more extreme.

I don't know but they be responsible for interest.

Thank you talking about you as an individual the days when I used to blog and I would get a lot of these comments and I would delete some of them, but should you really be held responsible as an individual and a big companies you can have an argue about that an individual should you be responsive what someone says in the comments section of your own blog not so sure can get used to be a sunny day specialist and I've stepped away from doing that more toward more kind of Broderick indications plan it because I don't really fed up with social media as a platform for Bren conversation because originally the big idea was to a conversation that you can have a meaningful interaction between a brand or an organisation and its founder followers and they could listen and hear and that's not happening.

You know that there was a time when some of that in itself is going on Direction but now it's just shouting into the ether and so I can't feel like we just want to quite a space now and I think a lot of consumers are feeling this way that they just

I want less shouting and a quieter place to ensure people having a lot of businesses are taking that for you.

Give me an example on Saturday when I was doing the Tory hustings.

I mistakenly vittoria is relevant to this I promise you I'm awesome very bright Red Sox and because of the awful chairs, are they use at your trousers ride up and you reveal all of the socks and able lot of people commented on them and I just said why I got them for me at London sock co and then I got somebody saying this is outrageous and as paid to promote socks and used to have what what 9 things are just because I praise something so I like them that means I've been paid her because her Facebook news the company has announced their own cryptocurrency set to launch next year which promises a more accessible way to send money online by God I don't understand cryptocurrency hoping you would know.

This is a cryptocurrency for people who don't understand Cresswell all I know is Facebook have gathered loads and loads of quite love financial groups and other other companies and the group together to make this cryptocurrency easier to use so that isn't a theory I read the theory is that people who don't have don't bank of bank accounts basically for whatever reason why you wouldn't have a bank account can use this currency to buy stuff to access stuff on the internet mostly, so is that people say this could be a way of making it easier to pay for make micropayments foot to have access to Heywood news sites etc.

Fireplaces long way round webcams in bed do things that maybe they ought not to be to turn those two and a half thousand Bitcoin in Florida

Cyber attackers who basically said but in a locked out of your system is unless you pay us if you'd amount of money in Bitcoin in which they did know which artist from like I know nothing about cryptocurrency accepts.

It makes me nervous because what purpose does it serve apart from facilitating transactions that would otherwise be traceable facilities White might be good news for all those in media organisations is micropayments, so who can be asked to put in my credit card to give 6P to New York Times reading a story but if everyone was signed up to Libra and you just clicked an article from within Facebook or WhatsApp or Instagram I also own then pats.

You could agree that every time you do that micro payment is paid for that Paypal is now and don't have some point you have to accrue the crypto cryptocurrency voice some kind of pre-existing your credit card deal whatever which is why there argument that there for the unbanked.

It's like you're addicted Alexander The Guardian did a really interesting to eat on this basis.

If it really is for people without bank accounts, then they would either have to offer a cash machines where you can pay it in orby companies would have to offer to pay in Libra their employees otherwise how would you ever do it as a money laundering exercise what you're such a complete is there a Black Market version where exactly someone with a credit card buys lots of Libra and then sells it on people you don't have a bank account and she looks right now be getting rid of the Enid sorting out the extraordinary situation with Cambridge analytica an inode I've got to deal with this.

Why they spend time and effort mean you are feeling super super super super singer 2016 rubles to take payments in a untraceable national car that money isn't it probably also to do the fact that all of these big companies at some stage every year they have to do two or three really really.

Big things interesting maybe this just doesn't launch properly in size and podcast in podcast terms is quite interesting to say two listeners on the device that you're using now to listen to his one tap away send us £1 to say thanks for the episode.

It would make it easier than PayPal that's the difference is more convenient solution, but there are I don't understand why I need a different currency to facilitate.

Don't know what I've got text messages.

The old is better than micropayments.

Why does the micro payment have to be in a currency other than pounds or Dollars are young music is a great idea because they said they do your little money raising thing that you do at the end of every episode of this he can just say now and you're more people.

Would do that.

I think so I might even do it.

The mafia positive ok, let's talk about telly now and all male writing teams will no longer be commissioned by ITV after the networks head of comedy Saskia Schuster reveal the new ambition to achieve gender balance in the writers room at boy.

Tell us what the contacts with this was all the contest is on a port services is one of those stories that was wildly misreported and misinterpreted as all manoban from Taliban from comedy Monty Python would never happen again in Galton and Simpson we ban and do you know all this bullshit she was very specifically addressing the issue of writing rooms within television so watching rooms are in America inventions really most American sitcoms.

They may be created by one or two individuals then maybe ostensibly credited scripts to 10 images but in actual fact most of them.

Have a group of eight nine ten sometimes more often men mostly men sitting in a room trying to be funny with each other roofing on stuff and coming up with the gags for these shows particularly you know.

Rickshaw, so your Saturday live shows like that have massive pubic writing rooms.

Talk shows have the mic been in James Corden's talk show the writing room and it was predominately male name in there was some women that the sasco sauces point is shows that are like that cannot have all mail items and quite right to imagine.

These are shows that are just generally making jokes about topical things about universal issues and just have a group of nerdy guys ripping off each other without any female input seems to meet Ludacris oh, I think it's absolutely fair.

What she's not saying is it to Great talented men came along with the great idea for a sick of it could not be commissioned.

That's how it was nice to hear from the BBC website.

I know because I was about to have a real good and the thrust of your real go in Whitby that we wouldn't have as point suggested decades with great details.

But isn't it the case though Boyd that because you said he just said some sitcoms actually sub secretly have writersroom.

I have two credited may arise for example.

Yeah, but have a writer's room full of other people yeah, but actually it's still could be the case that that sitcom written by man or two men couldn't happen if the plan for the writing room was a non diverse one I mean yeah, but commission shows like that anyway to that have sitcoms basically, what does solicitors there a few there a number of general if you want to scripted comedy on ITV2 tv guide ITV2 that's there if that's the thing is she also saying that there wouldn't be allowed to be any for female writing rooms also have a real issue because at the moment on to draw Denise out of it on television political panels for example.

You'll often see all all female panels now, which I'm add no jokes.

To bother you never ever see an all male panel anymore now the response of that would be a while.

You've had decades of having all male panel switches.

I suppose a farpoint but I do think it what you've got to be summer fair on this and if you have three women on one week.

You shouldn't object and necessarily having three men on the next but I might have a Little Mix I mean to be fair that the incentive is called 50/50.

Isn't it? So the ambition is quite clearly supposed to be fair 50/50 down the line status initiative launched her own initiatives.

Which is to get equal number of females working in TV generally.

I think you know that say brother in favour of positive discrimination critical writing grooms go.

Not just men people who listen to your voice is in a room if they hear about 25% female think women dominate because it's notable to them that with her speaking so it's a problem of perception and how we hear and experience even experienced Media for a long time and this is not to do it on camera to do women's voices fleabag is obviously and it never let anyone replied in the riding or really strong right now actually fleabag is an example of what it would be wrong to put a man on that writing down all that.

We should look for a balanced across the piece right.

We should be looking for is a browning point of view.

I don't mind having a couple of shows that are from an entirely male point of view as long as they're also a couple of shows that are for an interview as long as you're probably more balanced you now.

What object you what I find really annoying is? I'm sorry.

This is going to have any pointed.

What if I'm really annoying is the woman in the riding room or one woman on the panel over and over and over again which was talking this text from a commercial point of view we have discovered in Aruba inequality has a lot of causes one of the causes is that people tend to commission people that they can relate to personally right so that if they find a person someone that they can take you remind me of me when I was younger, then there will be more like the commission that person so just having more women who are in more senior positions to make a commissioning decisions Walter Mitty would wind up making those decisions better in the first place is really easy to just try and relatable to relate to people like you and I do have any questions timeshare cross question we have four panelists and I really tried to as much as I can have gender equality, but some weeks.

We've had for women some weeks.

We've had for men.

Otherwise that you can b2231 whatever and I've actually done it.

I've done a spreadsheet to actually look at what balance I've had since we started this and left and right brexit remainer all the son of different things and it's virtually impossible for the left or right when we are 50-50, but it's virtually impossible.

I think so necessarily get 50/50 on anything else.

You do one is to you no more women in writers rooms me more women with experience of writing which means more women who will show up in people's Minds as people that I can work with more.

It's just for everyone's benefit makes things more interesting not as a group but the woman in the right.

It is reading speed one is better than that should just think the main hu main product is 50/5 inches is called 50/50 to try and get to that point was it should be in fitter really know and it's so completely unbelievably scooty otherwise particularly in TV,

In terms of you know I've had a lot of companies recently a lot of scripted sitcoms if you want to call him that but nothing, dramas created by ways in which is brilliant if you look at the mass of comedy on television still comes to producing it who's making it behind the scenes and was that it's extraordinary half you when I go on set of these things all the time and visibly you see it.

So all she saying is she wants let's all think about those you have done it and I do not spreadsheet, but there are people out there not doing spreadsheets and not even thinking about if you don't think about it.

You're still going to have 8 blokes in a room trying to make jokes about women wee feels like just by kind of I know it when I do live TV news interviews sometimes.

It's just a call around Italy find someone and it if you have to work a little bit harder than he won't do it and if they are not top of mind then, don't be honest you just white again the more visible a campaign of the series the more I think it does encourage young women to think about coming into a field like comedy.

I think that's the point of it and I like.

I like seeing a show that has a Premier League male point of view because it seemed to me because it's different.

I just don't want it to be everything getting boring after awhile in comedy should never be done ok sticking with ITV and the lie detector test was subject to scrutiny this week as part of MPs enquiry into the Jeremy Kyle Show did you watch it because I missed it and I was upset.

I didn't watch it live that.

I would love that much more than an episode who is not particularly into politics culture Media sport select committee.

I think it's a really good example of this.

I used to be I think of really worry Spectre committee over the last couple of years.

They've done ridiculous Enquiries there gratuitously rude to anyone that comes to before them as if they're kind of trying to be forensic lawyers and they're not forensic lawyers and and they're playing to the camera at their business talking about this.

This is something for television people to discuss.

It is interesting how people jump on the show and that we need some ways quite rightly but I mean people people TV

Critics were criticized it before but if if lawmakers in politicians had some relax to grind about the show they should have they should have ground at AXA long time ago and not waited for the show to be closed after is closed and it's not coming back got no relevance to this committee.

I think it's interesting how these things were there, wasn't it? Because the Jeremy Kyle Show it's almost like it's a bit like some situations with very famous Uno abuses has suddenly become two lines on the everyone feels always knew it was like that with Jeremy Kyle no-one's mentioned it as soon as I can x politicians anyone people in TV got me right back to me for leaving no one's even paid any attention to it for about a decade and then suddenly tragic things happened in Bobby people have been on the show and it's been a became untenable try to be to carry on with it and they're quite rightly so I do feel on I know what you're saying about politicians jumping on the bandwagon, but if awful things that Pam and if there was a terrible culture on the show you're still going on I think Polish and she definitely be.

Definitely the fact that it's Jacks agree with you.

Feel slightly pointless after the event because one of their going to do launch enquiry into love Island is that if there was something that you feel if if it was regarded as being an adjusting ITV has I think been affected by what's happening love Island similar similar things that mean love Island and they have kind of the try to deal with that have tried change the program.

So what time you know the way they make it and change the emphasis of it and they are more sensitive to it without politician stepping in duty of care public service broadcaster.

Isn't do we know for a fact that the guy and took his own life as a direct result we don't know exactly exactly exactly so in that case that is an argument that they should have waited for the coroner's report the inquest and everything before they decided to do this.

Don't actually texting this is to me really important interests as well.

You're telling the truth or not.

That is what they are mostly excited.

You are now my problem with lie detector Jeremy Kyle show that I never watched when I did what it may be very angry and that's what it was designed to do that's what that's the type of television that it was my problems like I said it's used on programs whose entire purpose is to ride my problem is its use-by quite serious organisation is quite serious purposes the USB are in the United States use it regularly as part of the Recruitment and retention plan right to their testing their staff with a completely invalid methodology that she Jeremy Kyle McGowan work for next in line to the head of ITV programming a couple weeks ago and he was saying that they want to do something completely different in and they wanted their wonder it's a chance.

Revive and refresh ITV daytime offering anyway and so they kind of those far away from that kind of show as they possibly can Jeremy Kyle had done a few Prime Time specials like about crime.

He didn't Civic story so he is a very no compelling charismatic TV figure.

I think that's unlikeable do you think they're actually not in real life? I'm sure this sums for love horrendous people there more charming and mouthwash.

He was bringing up a sauna.

Where was shouting in the face of you know someone that likes to take a lie detector test about whether they're having an affair or not and he was playing this Ludacris ride.

It was a horrendous programme don't get me wrong I was awful, but I think as a human being as we not as often as you think any equal is presented body better than you think ok.

We'll be back with more media news in brief after this car booty cash in the Attic football my ass Fake Britain what do all those words have in common? You guessed it.

They are all titles of shows made with the help of the post production house where I'm sitting right now runs.

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Transmedia news in brief now, Ian Boyd and Karen are still with me and the introduction of an age limit to access online pawn has been delayed by 6 months.

Thanks.

II delays near after it was due to come into effect this time on July 15th May 3rd.

July in fact, what happened this time they decided they couldn't do it, You couldn't work out how to make it was because of the EU they tend to correspondent.

This is a prime example of why it's a great idea that we're leaving the Show because we had two apparently inform the EU that we were bringing in this legislation and we forgot to do all the civil servants forgot forgot to do say so it's going to be delayed the toss attacks has become known is going to be delayed by 6 months.

It was an absolutely preposterous thing to do and if I was Boris Johnson a Jeremy Hunt I'll be making this a campaign pledge not.

To introduce it because it's going to affect the very people but it shouldn't affect anyone who wants to get round going on porn sites can do it will be able to do it.

I will pay for a VPN appointment.

She is under eighteens can sort of stumble across quite extreme pornography with a couple of taps of their smarts.

That's not what this is stopping.

That's the thing about this is stopping porn websites.

We have to go to PornHub basically.

You know all those places and and access free porn and that they're trying to stop your beautiful doing that are people still be able to accidentally Cup stumbled across all the stuff that accidental it's not designed there for consumers of pornography to to interact with of not interact with which consume so it is work consume twice one sentence.

That is what this is ridiculous.

I agree with me in this ridiculous legislations trying to do in.

It's absolutely pointless everyone knows you can't you can never Bandit never stop people from accessing this kind of stuff every never ever works.

Prickly problem, what's the problem with with us all saying ok? We're all adults adults masturbate.

We're happy for over 18's to do that.

We're not happy for under 18 to sumbal across it therefore will put up a wall.

It's not even a paywall.

It's just you have to prove that you're over 80.

You know when most born is is a joint know when my support new wanted to see porn instantly Twitter Twitter content rules at all about what you can show if you can literally feel your timeline with clips of hardcore Pawn hardcore proper of any kind pretty much and you and you and it was said unless you know that you break the law but that's where you can go tonight.

That's not good for your Twitter account if your child how many more Tumblr stalkr Tumblr point I don't have gone to Twitter but it hasn't gone just proves that I don't look at Tumblr doesn't it?

Fruity this legislation it seems like it have a lot of problems with implementation and design.

I think we should we should think about the wider social implications that because hardcore often violent extremely disturbing pornography is easily available to children who's who are more technically adept than their parents.

Lot of the time.

Let's face it you know we have seen one of these looking into for work without using various issues around use mental health and there are a lot of indications that were seen rising suicide rates for seeing rising rates of depression and not English porn related necessarily before we get there, but I've been interviewing social scientists and experts and youth mental health and asking them.

What is causing this and one of the things that several of the aforesaid the access to destroy the easy access to disturbing content through all of their social feed the nature of it the quality of it the quantity of it is really shaping young people's mind.

I don't think this legislation is going to think it is a problem that needs a lot more serious consideration and we are giving it became get a slap a bandaid on it, but I think that's a different issue with that.

I think you know the proliferation of all kinds of pornography from the extreme to you know clap absolutely harmless is true, but I don't think this legislation dresses that took is because as you said this you know kids can't accidentally stumbled upon that extremist that just does not home.

I'm sorry ok, then.

You have to go extreme but if you type sex into Google by page to you will be directed to one of those mindgeek sites PornHub or YouPorn or whatever and their homepage if you click newest all most viewed will include terms like incest their fantasies, but you are encountering immediately they don't give underage children smartphone.

Give them in touch with them.

It's never gonna have let you know any money this time you still want to come over I think you're right, but I just think the logic behind it doesn't when we move on with this is a retrograde step doesn't make any move along nothing to see no finally on this one thing that I think he is possibly a valid argument against even if you think if I do that is broadly a good idea.

Is that no one reads terms and conditions ever we know of all people someone who's kind of musty and aroused and trying to quickly get some pornography those people are not going to read the terms and conditions that what happens to their data when they submit their age verification renovator in my favourite kind PornHub factoid last year was interred in in Hawaii where they accidentally accidentally said another thing that there is a nuclear bomb heading their way 30 minutes later.

They sent a second message telling people that was not the case pornuhub.

You said declined drastically dream.

30 minutes and then Strikes Again cast its initial levels within just a few seconds after the alert went out so clearly people like I'm gonna pass masturbating my birthday is an endlessly fascinating source of inside that are highly commended 20 players are there to talk telly now and EastEnders recorded its lowest ever audience figures on Tuesday night with just 2.9 million overnight viewers at Neighbours TV critic in Ireland who shared the status on this didn't work out that the same thing happened last July and that was because of love Island so if you were running EastEnders does this matter it does I think I do think it's a bit of problem for that because if you look at the writing is Germany feelings.

It's it's tipping it's going down quite steadily and I think you know I don't watch soaps have to watch everything else for my living so identify what shapes as well, then I won't have time to watch the good stuff that can be really good.

I think Coronation Street is a fantastic.

But the Bromley these sentences as I was asking around when this new story Rose in the office and my friends we do watch and people whose job is to watch it there people who go across from the Village People actually pay to watch soap operas dying directive he ever goes wrong and they all saying every single one of them that uses in a terrible state of the moment.

It's depressing it always have been slightly exaggerated but apparently right now and in recent months.

It has been genuinely depressing story lungs going on way to Long Grimm stories about gangs unit EastEnders tries to deal with topical issues, which is great as they also really like the way EastEnders still do things like gangland gang stories is just ends up being miserable and depressing and they go on and on and on for too long for too many months.

They had a pedophile catcher storyline and if you're aware of that most people something that just went on and on and on and wasn't really resolving.

I'm just going to watch it in a really EastEnders should be funny smart addressing topical.

Matters that's what it did at its best and as a lot of very funny engaged and it's like Pat you know when and Barbara Windsor's character now it just seems to be relentless grimace and I think the ratings reflect that and I think the love Island issue.

Where all young people watching Love Island on TV at the same time roughly that in a is on at 9, so it isn't in on his at the same time.

It's affecting the fact that people are putting them in agency.

Watching that they're watching this dreary miserable depressing soap opera a part of it as well.

Do you think aren cos you watch the British soaps and they just look a bit shit now compared to the kind of thing we can all just stream release Leon that concerts are so different like I always said and you know cleverest Mansions with millionaires in their family and yourself fully kitchen sink but I wasn't there something about the changing consumption of Media because there's a lot more quality content out there available to people much more easily than there used to be and I do think.

Superordinate identity Eastenders had I think the day also started as a climb was when they went 5 days a week EastEnders I switched on not that long ago.

I didn't recognise a single character that used to watch you religiously and your it is incredibly depressing sometimes.

I think it does have that for the gritty reality with some of the others don't and Coronation Street I think he's going the same way it because they've got to just turn it out churning out so so many episodes of week the storylines last for so long and you think are they never going to finish this one.

I think there will be a real thing actually as good point the fact that become factories showing at more more episodes and then once it became clear that you know you could rely on so properties to reach reach a certain level of popularity which now is no longer the case with these kind of figures for EastEnders I think they will be a rethink this keeps happening and it's not the way Emmerdale is doing really well right now.

I'm told you know that Emmerdale ratings off does Beast

This when they occasionally clash anime girls youth audiences growing around because I know there's been a big emphasis on Emmerdale Farm back in the 70s, but now they really try to fix a lot more than young character very young gay couples that had is the done a really good job.

Is it is there a point at which Boyd if the numbers go lower than that the BBC has to have a really serious conversation about it cuz they're spending millions as he said I do because you look at the new look at their spending that was only thing she spent so much money over over by John let you know when I've been to see some why do they need to have a massive remember that God knows? Why anyway I think they would have to look at it because if you look at the economics of if you're turning out five episodes of Eastenders a week which is quite expensive not just for the set before the actors you paying a huge cost about does a wall have quite high fees everything about it cost money if you can stick the One Show on in over half an hour or even an hour every day of the week at a fraction of the cost.

Why wouldn't you you know there a factual entertainment formats.

They could run instead.

They would probably do better.

You know if they really really thought.

That's what we want more Gyles Brandreth there you go there is just time for a thrilling media quiz contributors to make predictions at the end of the year but some Media predictions recruitrite this week.

I'm going to give you the outline of a prediction proven true you just have to identify it before your opponent's you buzzing with your name when you know the answer Karen so you will say Karen and you will say Ian and boy dual say boy he is question number one who predicted President Donald Trump and Prime Minister Boris Johnson back in 2015 but we're gonna win know the answer Tim Burgess of The Charlatans The Charlatans are in a Tweet from 2015 he predicted trump and Johnson in power in the US and the UK is questionable to who predicted the rise of fake news in 1990.

David Bowie it was Terry Pratchett yes, Terry Pratchett interview with Bill Gates suggested.

He gave the hypothetical example of a spurious treaties about something about the Holocaust having never happened and he said if I've been able to put that on the internet make it look credible right that could go viral people who believe it Bill Gates said no because the Internet will they have all kinds of ways of reassuring us that our sources Sophia's very switched on and I think it's probably said that because he thought he would be a gatekeeper.

It turns out.

He couldn't have been more wrong and this I think it was my Squire interview from 1995 has come out because Terry Pratchett

Prefer was doing some research into Stata screen grab of it anyway lentils have thousands retweets and to be Terry Pratchett once when he was in the early stages of Alzheimer's that was that was a weird experience because you weren't quite sure garden matting before and I wasn't quite sure whether he was being himself or not and wasn't the easiest interview of the don't have to say well, let's see if it helps you a question number three in you got a chance to win.

What did Bill Gates predict about TV in that same Terry Pratchett interview? What did Bill Gates pretty smart TV in 1995?

Buzzoid the boys, would you predict the Widow we watching in our own time basically like video streaming services that do and no I mean for the sake of having a neat conclusion to this quiz yeah, well done.

You've Whitegate to be benching a video on demand and streaming he said VHS was going to die and we will have he said in 1995 screens to guide you and an inbuilt personality to jump in and help me too far off voice activation is Asperger Tindale and Dec Aaron Robert in particular.

Thank you very promising debut.

Thank you coming along.

Thank you both for joining us at if you like what we're up to hear on the media podcast and you want to help us keep doing it then consider take out voluntary subscription you can head TV media podcast.com / donate and choose an amount to keep us going all year round and if you're in Edinburgh this summer what should you do in come and see my Edinburgh show at the gilded Balloon between

1st of July and 12th of August in conversation format I've got loads of political Media people are reuniting Anne Diamond and Nick Owen so we do whatever that we got christiane amanpour coming Dr David Starkey Nicholas Soames Sadiq Khan John McDonnell so I could go on Christopher Biggins as well now Dr David Starkey and Christopher Biggins is about to go one of the best-selling one so far Sir John curtice of Michael crick our John Curtis Legend you know you can get for free on our website for Media podcast.com Rebecca Grisedale sherry and media podcast PPM production next time bye bye.

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