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Read this: 16/08/2019 Radio 4 Feedback

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16/08/2019 Radio 4 Feedback…

BBC sounds music Radio podcasts hello there is heartbreak in ambridge crafted for every brick in the house and now it will never be ours in feedback.

I'll ask a leading Archers academic if the fictional crisis in Emma and EDS life reflects fact and the state of the nation being able to get together the amount of money for a mortgage is a huge thing for working families and in edshead.

He's kind of giving up on the Dream of home ownership or the idea of him a ship is really having anything to say to him.

Where is Emma hasn't and that has put right to the heart of a relationship with your more from Dr Nicola Headlam shortly about the highly emotional plot line which has listeners riveted.

Also this week Grime music that is in or out of your comfort zone feature two more listeners turn review.

What do they make the radio programme that features both a Granny and grime maybe I've seen the stereotype too much of what grimeeez and to his hear him talk about what his thoughts were and putting these people together that was really interesting.

I was very interested to think that they didn't have a view that all old people were a homogeneous group who are all thinking the same way well grime grand certainly took me out of my comfort zone.

Will it take you out of yours and there's always plenty of class conflict in The Archers what about at the BBC do you have to be middle class to get in and get on the accents invoices when he is the Faces one sees and particularly the issues addressed seen predominantly those of a privilege segment of society are report shows that around a third of BBC executives went to just to Universities and I think you can guess which one's the study's author tells me what he think should be done to her.

Open up the BBC and other institutions such as the legal profession to make them more representative and meritocratic when we talk about how to address this problem.

I think there needs to be a sort of fairly Frank discussion about how talented Mary is actually assessed and rewarded in the subtly professions let's begin with the Archers it's the world's longest running serial in one of Radio Forth most popular programmes with over 4 million people tuning in each week once called an everyday story of country folk.

It has matured into some of the most profound drama on the airwaves, so it still has space for Village fetes Christmas theatricals and escaping cattle but it is embraced powerful social issues such as domestic abuse and coercive control 1 current storyline involves historic child sexual abuse another depicts in heartbreaking detail a young couples ill-fated efforts to buy a home.

To realise it was too good to be true, but cannot work good things is that it don't matter how hard we graft? How much we scrimp and save, how much are kids do without we will never be as good as the likes of The Archers or felon or Thursday or anyone else in ambridge.

Come to that storylines like that have spawned a large number of research projects earlier.

I talk to Dr Nicola Headlam who is co-founder of The Archers academics.

I asked her first to explain who they are creation myth is a well told story but I'll give you the short version there is a result of connecting on on Twitter Cara courage, and I 5 years ago wondered if anyone felt as we did that we thought about it far too much and we didn't really have anybody in our immediate households that wanted to dissect it so we put out a call for papers as you do and we had a first I could have a coaches conference with 100 people that came and since then it's been a bit of a phenomenon and could you tell me some of your favourite person?

Michael's of some of your papers which have been delivered at your conference centre first winner of that with the amazing Dr Samantha Walton who came up with cider with Grundy this year.

It was won by a criminologist who was it's burns burns burns the village policeman comes around as you can see if it's all quite light-hearted the best paper of all time now.

I think has to go to amazing uncle Christine Michael who has a set of fun newspaper for Archers called the ambridge, Observer and her paper on the healing and medicinal properties of lemon drizzle cake has become a classic within diabetes education will lead to talk about the Ed and Emma storyline which a lot of our listeners have found extremely compelling his extract everything I've been toilets hoovering and polishing and wiping other facts that is still they gleam surfing cakes to customers who don't look me in the eye cause.

I'm just discovered all that we.

Finally be the same as everyone else around here the actual part of this village and p listen to for once more from the Archers academic in a moment, but first here's just a sample of what you had to say about Ed and Emma's Saga careful careful rings in Buckinghamshire for the first time in 38 years of listening.

I have not listened to the artist for a week.

I am so fed up with the head and Emma storyline that I don't want to hear what happens next I want to hear Ed and then they get their house even if there are some problems on the way they've Rawcliffe the desperation of Emma in losing the house and the desperation of Ed working illegally because there's no chance he'll be able to save enough to get a mortgage is very moving very very sad and a superb pertinent rural storyline chilli from Ledbury in Herefordshire what a remarkable week in hand.

I was relieved to put the washing out halfway through the omnibus it was so exhausting heartbreak incredible with the most dramatic twist beautifully written and superbly played out Oscars should go to the actors who played and Emma I feel I'm filling up with tears when you've heard them grow and the story of their relationship and their kids and their family I mean in the arguments the bit where it was completely unclear to me where it was going because we know the housing crisis have been played out within their relationship as it is within families.

I mean is this true right? It's about money.

It's about what you can expect to of life and ad&d.

I've got everything I need with you and the source of the ramping up of the fact.

That's never going to be enough for Emma I mean it's it's so impressive because you know their characters the argument was it was like hearing.

Between your two best friends you know it was completely convincing monitoring your day job which is to do with urban transformations does that made me to see the story of adenomas in a rather different way the problem, desperate to have a house.

No low-cost housing available.

She's never going to get the mortgage together.

Does that resonate with you in the in the or as a word a job absolutely adore and we were motivated to work on academic cottages on the basis that Cara courage and I don't work out on planning.

So it done a lot of work on the involvement of communities in planning the fact that there is Elliott bill at all is because Pat and Tony sold off the field for lots of money that you know putting more money into the hands of the useless offspring and Emma join the council's I'm very interested in democratic process in the housing crisis, but again it's just such a massive issue that the working poor find it hard to have housing and Italia absolutely right for the purposes of the drama.

It was somewhat truncate.

Shed but being able to get together the amount of money for a mortgage.

It's a huge thing for working families in low-paid families in edshead.

He's kind of giving up on the Dream of home ownership or the idea of how a ship is really having anything to say to him.

Where is Emma hasn't and that has put it's a right to the heart of a relationship something.

What does very structural and you know has been playing out my whole life time which is the housing crisis into the heart of the Village Inn just the heart of two of the really major characters and I just defy anybody to think of another way that you can highlight the social issue like the housing crisis more with more effectiveness as has been said I've worked very much and I'm looking at the future of places both urban and rural places in my own work and sometimes seen as as instead of marginal concern see how I think I've been module who gets a roof over their head and they say it in in the amperage fairy is the only answer to many people in ambridge and the average ferry isn't waving her wand into the country as

Call a funny and Nicola if you were the able to the Archers I mean which characters not really had a great role of the moment.

Would you pick out do you think there's some real possibilities with The Watcher in the church? That's really going to be interesting.

Do you think kilmeena? I getting anything worse than hearing more about soon as like midlife crisis.

I'm sorry.

It's horrible.

You know it's just I just can't bear with anybody else for you.

Think really it's been waiting in the wings and should be brought forward to seeing as I have all the emotional intelligence for Amber the moment.

So I think more of them and more storylines that aren't just them painting Comic Relief I got in lots of trouble.

When would I said with take the book out on the road? I went to her and I made a big speech about how Jill and Peggy and manipulative and they manipulate the only Generations with their money just at the point when Gillett secretly paid off kentons debt to David and Peggy I mean this inheritance of her as I mean.

It's been held over everyone's head to you know she.

Approves of Rob that you giving Helen money she thinks TOMS some business with said she gives him money.

I mean as head of both proof completely hopeless in those departments.

So is it an awful thing to say that I'm looking forward to the matriarch dying so that we can have some some shift into the younger younger matriarchs are in box will go through through my thanks to Archers academic Dr Nicola Headlam and for those of you who wish to phone me Peggy and Jill Defence League will have our contact details a little later in feedback now for something else which might make some feel uncomfortable each week, we asked to listeners to review something they would never consider tuning into on BBC Radio this week.

We have Peter Alan from Sheffield and Deborah balance from Christchurch to Peter just to get a taste of your usual listening habits.

Could be the top 3 programs you would take for an extended stay on a desert island.

I think currently Antico the Archers most definitely I love the media show probably take that I think I go for Saturday Live Now and Deborah what would be your top 3 if you're on it does darling.

I really like from our own correspondent.

I also love dead ringers when that song and I like and stories being read out book at Bedtime and the story part on Woman's Hour what's an certificate Radio 4 listeners, so we're going to discuss anything connected with Radio Forum nothing has it remotely like anything you mentioned we asked you to listen to in addition of headliners called grime Gran it was broadcast on Radio 5 and available to download as a podcast on BBC sounds.

Just before we go on app apps better save to as I would have said to myself.

What crime is crime is a genre of popular music influenced by UK garage.

Typically characterized by a minimal prominent rhythm a very low pitch baseline and vocals by Nancy so now.

I know right here's a clip from Legend and former guest on the show gets since the very beginning I was the one who bought him his first up yours ugly anyway.

We've had the old grandson round in his house over the years, so now I'm inviting a few of my favorites in for a cup of tea and a nice little chat my first match of living statues.

You behind them then go through and they don't know that if you look at the Cresswell Peter when you first heard this.

Did you think it was for real life? Obviously he was a very interesting character in Gran gran and this sort of bringing two.

The artist from diamond and this lovely woman.

I thought just made for me for a lovely listen it really did but it was really bad grime in one way was it the central news that relationships are definitely thought that I thought this was a lovely human story about relationships respect across the Generations and just how different backgrounds or different places where you stand in life can be overcome when there's a mutual respect and love from 32.

That's why I thought and Deborah is there any chance you just switched on this program? We had asked you to know definitely not the minute.

I saw grime.

I immediately thought it was going to be a cleaning program.

You know like that Aggie and someone telling you what to do with white vinegar and I definitely would not have listened to that so when I heard it was supposed to be about Grime music which I have to say I had heard of but not really my cup.

Tasty despite that actually may have been in about the name on the Canadian Grime music but actually this was about intergenerational relationships.

Yes, that's why I thought it was much more interesting than and the title suggested because it was actually about an intergenerational solidarity among women who were supporting each other to bring up the grandson and encouraging him and his mates to come home and offering a safe nurturing place.

So they could do a really whatever they've been doing the granny would have supported them and encourage them and giving the place to go and that was such a significant role.

Will I said it would have wanted the granny on my side wouldn't have me any other battling few definitely Peter that surprised you about the program and something you weren't expecting how to say that I don't tell me anyway, I just thought the way that they.

Risky rurouni the way was able to articulate and in see what was going off and wanted to put together this juxtaposition of the artist and his grandma thought that was a really insightful thing about how creative and able to see opportunities and see the benefit in them the good benefiting them.

I thought I was really got it told me a lot about these guys have thought through what they doing and maybe I've heard steamer stereotype too much of what grimeeez and to his hear him talk about what his thoughts were then putting these two people together at that was really interesting yet everywhere you was interested in what they thought yes, I was very interested to think that the young people didn't have a view that all old people were a homogeneous group are all thinking the same way they treated the grand very much as a person rather than an old person.

I don't want him that it also came across to me is how ignorant I want of this and

I wonder whether you know where the wave of Media is where were all this thing two things we know we like we're not often come across things we don't know we like all might like I don't know about and this was very refreshing to me because I wouldn't have gone there myself and you took me out of my comfort zone, but it made me think I really should have no more about that then I do know did that's right you Deborah yeah, because you don't living in leafy, Christchurch there's not a lot of crime going on there.

I must say so you know I'm going to make the effort after this program to be a little more attention and I will try and I must admit that from a musical point of view.

I'm more of a Tamla Motown Burt Bacharach sort of girl than a graph.

So it if I don't like the music I must admit but as a platform for alienated used to have a voice and get their views across course.

It's very valuable the question.

We always ask all of you.

Are you really are cucumbers and listening to this program and will you listen again as a result I wouldn't say was out of my comfort zone.

I learnt something about grime which I was aware of on the sort of fringes of my mind but now I've learnt more and I will look into it more cos I'm interested in these young people and what's happening then what's going off in their life and I would listen again.

Yes, I don't think I would listen to a program that was just playing Grime music.

I might be interested if there was someone there to interpret tricks and interview some young people about what they're saying and what their particular grievances are but the music I must say I can really do without so please don't ever your Radio 4 listeners, but this was on 5 live on the house show 1 are you going to try the show again Peter yes, I think I will I know I have been known occasion to dip in and out of the house show so I will try to get any especially perhaps when there are things on like this.

Yes, I really enjoyed it and Deborah yea.

Cos you say it's on at 1 anything to avoid the news at the moment or a poor old Jeremy Vine having all those Daily Mail readers ringing in with a ridiculous fuse 04 statue of head Mandy Deborah balance and Peter Alan now, if you'd like to take part in that feature or become part of our feedback panel, or you just want to let us know what you're thinking about BBC radio programmes then please do get in touch.

This is the last programme in this series but we're back on the air in the autumn and will read what you have to say when planning for the next one you can write a letter to the address is feedback PO Box 67234 London se1p 4ax you can follow our activity on Twitter by using at BBC R4 feedback or you can call if somebody the phone message on 0333 444 5440 standard landline charges applied, but it could cost more on some mobile networks all those.

Sales are on our website a few weeks ago as studied by the Sutton trust and the social mobility commission founded Italian privately educated people many of whom went to Oxbridge continue to dominate high-ranking jobs those who occupy the top jobs in politics judiciary business and the media including of course the BBC of five times more likely than the general population to have been privately educated the corporations are better than most Media outlets, but even so the research revealed that 29% of BBC executives attended independent schools compared to less than 7% of the general population and 31% went to Oxbridge compared to just under 1% of the population just for the record.

I went to neither does it matter where you're educated does ability ultimately Triumph over privileged? This is how some of you responded to the report Peter Ward from Narberth in

Wales the BBC's commitment to increasing diversity is probably sincere, but unconscious bias and the People Like Us syndrome should not be underestimated when considering how executive set about choosing who should write reports for present the news the accents and voices one hears the Faces one sees and particularly the issues addressed seen predominantly those of a privilege segment of society Trevor Rothwell Ipswich can the BBC become more representative surely the decline in local media and best local trainee jobs can't help overcome their replacement by unpaid internships and other freelance work.

You've got to be able to support yourself to undertake such roles and most I suppose will be in London associate professor Sam Friedman from the loc is a commissioner for the UK gov.

Social mobility commission and contributed to the report Elise Britten is also the co-author of the class ceiling why it pays to be privileged I asked him whether our listeners were right to think that class still matters.

Yeah, I'm afraid they are and really whatever way you look at it you see that the top echelons of British society in terms of our top professions are dominated by those from middle and upper-middle class backgrounds not only is it an issue of access though, it's also very clearly one of progression in terms of who gets to the top one seen those jobs.

We found those from working class backgrounds even when they are successful in to get into top professions go on to earn on average about 16% less than their privileged colleagues even when they are similar in various art of marriage cratic ways same level of education same level of training same level of experience even the same out of hours worked you still see this very clear class pay gap.

Why does this?

I mean some could argue look in the end of day.

It's a bit unfair but people go to Oxford and Cambridge and whatever get a brilliant education and as a result they are fitted to run these top charts.

Why does it matter that they come from a relatively restricted social background a basic principle of fairness which I think people of all political stripes adhere to in the UK things that are beyond your control in terms of your social origins shape either advantage or disadvantage later in life really whatever way you look at it people are striving for that not to be the case in relation to the sort of London dominant physically relationship between London and class and well.

Yeah, I mean what you see in in the data.

Is that the opportunities in our top professions are clustered in London and when you look at internal migration figures to London you see that it's disproportionately those from privileged backgrounds that are able to take up these offer.

Unities and that's a lot to do with aspects of class background namely parental wealth miles ablation is lead to even more difficult now for working class people without a base in London without the bank of mum and dad loves the bed of mum and dad to actually survive the happiness is something it comes out really clear in the book about the development of industries like the media the theoretical possibility of the bank of Mum and Dad which is actually quite powerful incentive shaping who feels they can take risks in their career even in the sort of short and medium tears of their career is really quite profound and actually what we found is that goes from working class backgrounds trying to make their way Ahead often sort of grudgingly self-selected out of the more sort of creative or lucrative pathways for more stable most secure jobs, but often with less career prospects in admin in marketing in those sorts of Southern Gallery I know what I'm getting paid.

Teenagers here my way through.

I'm not going to have periods without work.

You know now waiting for the really great contract short-term contract the word advance my career absolutely well baby says you know that it is trying to address these issues launching an apprenticeship program.

It's been the first broadcasted ASDA monitor and public the socio-economic background of their employees Channel 4 is doing something similar and you can see both organisations trying to push more work out of London with you.

Maybe one or two of the answers, but overall I do think there's anything else that could be done one of the issues.

We found was that in a lot of top jobs including in the media people who got to the top of the rate of those trajectories as being such of the scaffolding often buy a can sponsor figure or two or three sponsor figures a bond where the of sponsorship can engender can mean ethnicity better than in the case of we were looking often is about shared background and as those at the top of the from disproportionate privilege.

This sort of sponsorship in one's own image at the moment anyway is disproportionately advantage in those from privileged backgrounds in an industry like the media which tends to be quite informal and when there's a lot of autonomy for senior figures to advocate for their sponsors a sort of tightening of the sort of formal career structures, would I think be quite a useful way of addressing this problem one other thing which I think is a kind of elephant in the room a little bit in these discussions is actually about the culture of elite professions of of big organisations like the BBC Weather may or may not be such as a tacit behavioural codes that people need to adhere to assimilate to in order to get on and I saw makers to the law doesn't it's quite staggering who went to Oxford public school.

I mean soft scale.

Isn't it and also look at the cost of getting in the legal profession and staying in it for the first four or five years and they're quite very high.

That really does creates a barrier the BBC shouldn't have as much difficulty is the legal profession should it? No I mean I think the interesting thing about the media.

Is it sort of turns itself a story that it's her an informal open sort of industry where you can be who you want to be bring your whole self to work these sort of maxims.

I think what we were finding from the Sun of research that we did is that actually there's a culture of such as what we called in the books studied in formality that you tend to find in the media where there's an appearance of openness, but actually quite clear unwritten rules about self-presentation around how you speak all sorts of elements of the summer package of how you sort of act in Uno meetings and all sorts of settings that tends to reflect the sort of historical resident who has done this work in the past and how they've been able to embed even institutionalize their ideas about the right way to be and that's in the case of the BBC in many institutions a Legacy of Wight

Privilege man and you still see this and I think you know when we talk about how to address this problem.

I think there needs to be I should have fairly Frank discussion about how Talent and Mary is actually assessed and rewarded in the subtly professions by thanks to prof Sam Friedman and that's it for this series of feedback will be back in October by which time we will know who the new chair of any questions is to be be able to chair at the News Quiz is to be filled by number of guest presenters and we should finally know whether we are to leave the EU on the 31st of October without a deal enjoy the rest of the summer if you can goodbye.

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