Read this: 18/10/2019
Summary: PodcastDownload MP3 www.bbc.co.uk18/10/2019…
BBC sounds music Radio podcasts hello, can you hear the drum beat are rebelling? Please? Could you tell me what's happening with Extinction rebellion is that true in feedback this week? We will examine the corporations coverage of the 2-week old climate change protest in London and Alexa Alexa open Radio 4 in kitchen radio from TuneIn playing on kitchen you stop me being able to wake up to Radio 4 via Amazon Alexa because of some data sharing issue.
It's time to put your customers first.
I'm unbelievably last week.
Some of you were angry about the death of the iPlayer radio and irritated.
The imperfections of its replacement BBC sounds this week, you are furious about the BBC's withdrawal from TuneIn to which some of you woke up to this network and out of your comfort zone feature.
That's where this program is Monday because it educates us about you know what we shouldn't do how we are being manipulated unfortunately.
They're not talking about feedback find out which program went down a storm with out to listeners.
We begin with the climate change protests which will take place over the last 2-weeks in London organised by Extinction rebellion have they had the coverage they deserve how far at the news running order should a story be at a time when Turkey is invaded northern Syria the brexit negotiations have reached the climax and racial abuse has once again disgraced international football on Monday evening as trouble began in the stadium in Bulgaria the Metropolitan Police
Clearing protesters from Trafalgar Square following the announcement of the ban on the protest which have come into operation at 9 p.m.
That evening had the police exceeded their powers some critical path from store so I thought that the corporations coverage of the band was inadequate and we're not happy either with the level of coverage in the preceding weeks here's a sample of that coverage and of some of your responses and Extinction rebellion protests in London from Trafalgar Square the environmental group has described the move as an outrage 18:02 from Cambridge this is mentioned on 5 live news morning but as far as I'm aware not at all.
I'm Radio 4 Today programme The inconsistency Rachel Kenyon please give more.
Fridge to the things happening in Central London this week regarding the Extinction rebellion actions is a hugely important issue and the amount of BBC news.
Coverage is not reflective of this is worrying to say the least Joseph Coulson the story is not about protests arrests or what the police are doing or where they're putting people and the idea.
It's important to discuss whether the protesters are middle class working class or anything else is laughable Keith Butler why is the BBC giving oxygen to the blocking the streets in London I know you have to fill broadcast time but if you just ignore the publicity seeking balls the protest is pointless and they will soon way well.
Johnny me to discuss these issues is the professor of journalism at city university in London Suzanne Frank's is also work for both the BBC and Channel 4 thanks for coming along for best of.
What was in here is the battle for the headlines? Isn't it and Extinction rebellion and it's supporters want to have the maximum coverage possible.
Yes absolutely I mean that offer them to be able to get their message out there and what was seeing really is the kind of news values debate in acted out.
You know trying to push yourself out the bulletin.
Let's hope the first point by Fiona Westlake she says Extinction rebellion protesters were banned london-wide from protesting and forcibly removed from Trafalgar Square the story was not mentioned on the world tonight on the Monday when the storage of broken broken.
It wasn't mentioned on the Today programme or world at one of the following day.
It was finally mentioned on p.m.
In the last item in the 5:30 headlines the following day and then it's 6:20 in the 6:00 bulletin.
That's a mistake by the BBC not appreciate that there's a real issue.
That should have been reported earlier.
Yes, I think my feeling is that.
Even though we are in a period of intense news as you mentioned before I think this is a story that should have had a bit more comfort to it about whether it is legal to protest in this way of a period and there are some people like the London Marathon MPs question in the police's actions absolutely and I think some of the protesters are going to be taking legal action against the police as I understand it, so I think you know it is a very live and and and and I think so, I think certainly as it was breaking just before the world tonight that would be a great opportunity to have reflected on it here is the BBC covers climate change across is radio output this past week.
We covered the nature and scale of the Extinction rebellion protests on holiday with programs such as today in the world at One interview members of the as well as the deputy assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police Lawrence Taylor so they have covered it generally but Rachel cannon has complained that it hasn't been.
Again, the BBC has told us the Roger harrabin its environment corresponded has just done a report on the gums to environmental Bill and Environment is that girl that was interviewed on the Today programme on tonight in use regular cover climate change well.
I do have some sympathy with the listeners that say that this whole coverage of extinction rebellion has rather gone into a Burns I'm a Londoner several times.
I know I was keen to know you know.
What's the situation with the traffic.
Can I get about and so on and in the previous time? It was a few months ago.
When does the Extinction rebellion 170 felt? They was being well covered and see well aware of it as it's the Londoner which I wasn't this time the problem is of course that people demonstrate and attention isn't paid the is in Colchester Zoo pass smart extreme things so there's a balance there isn't that between as it was summoned by stunts or violence or genuine protests and being manipulated by people to push this.
Care most about head of others on the agenda and when there is like what happening in Syria northern Syria what's happening to the gods that isn't even earlier this year.
Yes, but let's remember.
We've had plenty of coverage of Footballers Wives rhyme with each other so you know it's not that the coverage has been entirely Syria and brexit Mrs Rooney Mrs news organisations to campaign as it were on this issue.
Is that a danger I mean should the BBC be come I can pain in organisation on the issue of climate change.
No that's absolutely clear the BBC is not there to campaign no matter how fantastic the issue is and obviously you know for many of us climate change is the most important is.
Much more important than brexit, but it's still not the BBC's job to campaign but the very fact that they're not putting somebody up to defend their coverage.
I think is a rather disappointing and also the Extinction rebellion actually occupied The Plaza outside the BBC the other day so you just thought the BBC would at least be willing to sort of talk about her or respond to that rather than just putting up some statement to you of course when it comes to coverage of the events themselves some distance away that there's more focused on the number of arrests and who the protesters are rather than this Tuesday protesting about here's a clip from Tuesday the 8th of October the Metropolitan Police now says it's 2531 people in 2-days of climate change demonstrations Boris Johnson labour to protest uncooperative crusty's who should abandon their home smelling bigger legs and stop blocking roads now listen to Joseph Coulson police has been too much concentration on arrests and the makeup of the
Used would you agree this time compared to the previous demonstrations that has been much more emphasis on a rest I do agree, but the point is as a news editor or somebody making judgements that to some extent is the colour of new element of the story because the previous protest very few arrests and the police have taken a very different attitude this time you know but I wanna prove that or not soap to certain extent one has to accept that is just a night should use and how use judgements are made.
That's the new element of the story the new angle that you remember from your very very in journalism, when was that you talked about the oxygen of publicity and not give it in that instance to the terrorists in a people want to get arrested in many ways in order to have the attention upon the assumption that is that the public is always good publicity and I never quite been sure about that.
I mean in this instance initially the public reaction might be sympathetic, but how
Sympathy last you think well.
That's a delicate balance and that's something that Extinction rebellion and other protesters have to make a judgement on I mean if they're gonna anger the public or annoy people that something that they're going to have to take into consideration but but at the moment is generally that one feels that has been very good natured.
I'm in the rabbi the other day the 77 year-old Rabbi who was playing and then got arrested in that sort of thing is hardly.
I'm not scared of WhatsApp message that you was talking about with the alright.
Thanks to journalism professor Suzanne Franks from city university and now that you are intentionally uncomfortable feature.
Asking to BBC Radio listeners to step out of their comfort zone's and listen to a program that wouldn't normally be on their radar this week.
We have cleared from st.
Albans and Peter West from London Claire just to get a sense of your listening before we go into your analysis with you were stuck on a desert island.
Only could have three programs to listen to what would they be absolute favourite Josie long shorts and then Woman's Hour about the Today programme eyesentials and Farming Today just a minute and also wouldn't have or radio for the theme to Bench outside this network and to listen to trending on the world service station.
We're going to talk about was broadcast on Friday evening just after 10.
It's to repeat at various times on Saturday in this case it was Friday the 4th of October that the program was broadcast in this country.
How would you describe the program? Please explain what is about it was about.
Ribbons and trying to decide whether they were biased or not so if you search a subject and it comes up with certain results, is it the fault of the algorithm that is made some decisions independent of you as to what the answer is and essentially the progression imaging on Sunday the Beginning where are algorithms are racist as Joshua 1:9 to submit his photo along with the rest of the form.
He was expecting it to go through without a hitch but then the website denied the application saying his prayers open in picture, but the paperwork has been rejected not by human working in the passport office but by machine Joshua tried to reply to automated system.
He wrote my mouth is closed I just have big lips.
And so did he was good subject? I'm from my point of view.
I hadn't really thought about algorithms being racist so and it's a terribly important issue, so I was impressed by yeah, I was and I felt relieved that could I think I understood the core of the programs argument that algorithm to a recipe and therefore.
They are a moral don't have any feelings, but they do search what's on social media news.
That's put on by human beings.
It will then reflect what human beings are actually say on social media so the algorithm is Justin a neutral tool.
That's just doing it's job and has a predisposition my PhD is in this area from a number of years ago.
I did what could use a modelling and actually the only sense in which they are racist.
I think it came over on the program.
Is that they do recognise obvious features so features like
Colours features like a different shaped nose features like curly hair are actually things that they can pick up easily when they are looking for patterns.
So what are algorithms may reinforce or reflect the consensus? I mean I was picking up the idea when the the example of the man of black man who had his photograph taken for a path algorithm such as it was rejected the nobody could find out why the Assumption was that because he had slightly larger and perhaps in the European and because the algorithm would be set up as it were perhaps unconsciously to reflect European features this was why he was being rejected now is that racist is that not racist? It's so it depends on which day 34 to algorithm.
So he feed your algorithms a data.
Set that consists a entirely of white males.
It's going to have problem with anybody black and
Female strippers you could do that intentionally if you had a racist but you got it easily do it unintentionally you could quite easy to digest of the program is an intentional but we better wake up the algorithms are effectively taking a rafter decisions for us Peter if someone doesn't use social media very often and came to this program with a learning from it lets me I don't use social media so great extend but I think I was slightly reassured that they always and which are these things that we're not very understanding off and not quite as controlling office as a thought but I do worry about everything on the radio this morning about cookies which I think of course of a sort of our and always say yes, I don't know what I've already said yes to say I'm I'm still quite cautious about being out there in social media, but lack of knowledge doesn't inhibit you and John to the Premier no no I didn't.
As so I think I understood the concept and I understood some of the ways to confuse the algorithms because you are much more diverse than in social media, but a lot of people are scared of what people say my age, they said I have a blanket of fear of it is that something that you find that there are people who is still disconnected from these issues program showed that social media can be a very bad thing not least in reassuring you that the world is going your way because pushing out you everything you want to hear it's hiding from you what you don't as he can I see children who are far too engaged with it and dependent on likes however.
I don't think we can ignore it.
I think it is a powerful tool for connecting a full form in communities and helping one another so I think probably the position is always going to be that we need to be very aware of the downside and that's where this program is Malika
It's us about you know what we shouldn't do how we are being manipulated like yourself something from it.
Oh, yeah, I know it should you know it's examining my behaviour over the week well sounds to me that you weren't added comfort zone's either be very much in your company.
So does this mean that you will look it out again absolutely I found it fascinating at least social media affecting often detrimental that people I teach I want to know more and I want to be able to have somewhere to send them.
So they can no more.
Yes, I'm in my radio for automatically switches to will service at certain time so again.
I I would listen to it again.
Thank you very much and hope you keep listening in the future.
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Sounds music Radio podcasts last week.
We were inundated with complaints over that BBC Sounds app.
Maybe you weren't too happy with the BBC's response on the programme this week is more incoming fire this time about the BBC's withdrawal from TuneIn the popular radio streaming app that comes pre-installed on Amazon and Google smart speakers, it allows you to schedule your favourite programs.
So they come on automatically the BBC argues that tune in won't give them the meaning for user data.
Which The Corporation needs to develop, it's services listeners well since the BBC pulled out your complaints have been coming in thick and fast and you've also responded to the BBC blog on Julian Picasso and I live in London the BBC and business development explained that since tuning is enabled to provide listen the data.
He won't listen to use it that's obviously ridiculous since anyone who listens to radio isn't providing the data either but this change affects the UK anyone can use a student overseas to listen to BBC Radio cancel do so Clive Walley other platforms are available in Mono do I have to put my new stereo speakers until the BBC catch-up and stereo available University black and white TV David Pearson it just doesn't get work the way you listening.
And what the BBC say it probably never will why not turn the service back on and turn the equivalent service can be offered its home and away from Exeter my issue.
Is that impact my disabled grandmother not just tacky smart speaker uses that are impacted soha, radio no longer works as it has done for the last 2 years and she can't speak clearly to turn Alexa speaker as for to do so by the BBC Sounds app, she's missing one of the few pleasures left.
It might well with me to discuss the BBC's decision to withdraw from TuneIn is Matt Deegan a radio consultant who has worked in strategy management for Global broadcast thanks for coming in my first.
Why is TuneIn so important that you provide a good service they have got their software and took two devices so smart speakers like Amazon Alexa and Google home, because I have lots of radio stations in their catalogue a lot of those big companies when you know will fix radio will just put in the TuneIn product and so that would apply in principle to the TV
If everybody is starting to use TuneIn or is the most popular we must be there? That's the logic presume that absolutely and historically that's what a broadcasters did and they did it a time when you listening audience but not the majority of it, but they only default positions and lots of these devices power to that that aggregator and yeah, they do a good job American company, they want a different kind of product in America if they wanted to run adverts at the Beginning people streams alternative subscription service that's up to them to decide so if you're a broadcast you want to ensure that should they change their strategy? You're not sort of left and I think was the second guess what the BBC are saying but absolutely the date of Peace but also you want to make sure that should have thing happen in the future that you can insure against and the BBC that have their own skills and lots of those devices now.
Just to protect the list.
If you at the moment, if they've been using TuneIn and they no longer can to access BBC where can I go so, I think was generally happened is that they've taken BBC services off TuneIn where there is another way to listen to the BBC in devices that it's more hard baked in the BBC cop at the road after their own skill in there, then you can still listen on TuneIn to transitioning people are still some of them if you've got an Amazon Alexa or you've got a Google home normal if you ask for a radio station BBC station automatically install the BBC skill listen app store do all the views that you have made on Sonos or on other devices you you'll be able to find the BBC other broadcasters there to other alternatives, but it's still quite a big blow to some listeners and the BBC Sense well.
It's Pauline is you collecting data, but let's pick up Julian Picasso point he says it's not entitled.
Is it because anyone who listens to an FM or DAB radio?
Listen to data either.
I think that is true though.
I wouldn't measurement service re Jaguar catches multi-platform listening.
It's more that if you've got a device where you can pick up this information.
Can you want to be able to carry on doing it even that tune in don't want to provide the data.
You guys remember that again.
They're not a UK company.
They deal with hundreds of thousands of radio stations trying to deal with all of them on their own terms.
It's probably quite hard.
I think this is one of the issues and we're not really used to it is licence fee payers here, but the BBC's a small player in this global world the key point of the problem BBC appears to have can't get the data it once from the company.
What sort of data is that and why is that data important so I think it's everyone's building new services.
You're trying to see how people use them and there's always going to be a bit of information that they get anyway because they're providing the stream which these people are using says there's something there, but it's how they
Which across services are they using tools like asking for what's playing are the same streaming listeners listening to podcasts and it allows you to develop the products it in a better way.
They do seem strange position for the BBC to be in the people overseas.
Get a better and free service on the BBC licence fee pay a UK licence for you and you can't get it via TuneIn are you I think the dog that I put up places so that shouldn't matter I'm also think it's probably more about caring about the UK listeners more so if something with a happened to tuning of the service they provide there's another alternative to show that there's alternatives ready.
I think that's probably a question for them.
I would say in the main that there are adequate replacements.
I think one of the issues is some of the features of services to consumers.
I can't use multi-room or special functions that tune allows and that's very true and that's about those device manufacturers opening up those services.
Other parties which I'm sure they will it may take a little time still there are a number of our listeners who are bothered that it doesn't have an alarm function and Alexa skill for example does not have an alarm function and that it's an inferior service to the one that they had before I think that's true part of the problem is for those devices for the Amazon Echo doesn't allow normal developers of which I say the BBC One to be able to configure the system that way I imagine that will change and we tend to find is that if the service is available for private partners as there are some which tuning they will eventually rolled out to other people the BBC sort of have to wait for Amazon to do that but I would have thought they have a good relationship would have been encouraging them to do that as fast as possible to little unfortunate that you have is running with TuneIn at the same time as you're taking off iPlayer and you're replacing it or leaving alone in glorious isolation assist.
Which many of our listings is far from adequate to question for them? I think it does show where they really fast moving space at the moment with audio there lots of conflicting issues to deal with your app development third parties new smart speakers and devices and so it's all come at 1 time but of course if you affected by it it's bad news salsa indicates a fundamental change doesn't it in the past the BBC tended to make U-turn technical equipment it has its own departments and it could do everything as it were in house what we're now seeing the situation.
We have to negotiate with other players often bigger than itself and it can no longer call the tune that's completely correct and the BBC's in a much better place than a lot of broadcasters and its size, but this is the thing that everyone faces in international media world.
Thanks to radio consultant Matt Deegan of course.
We did ask the BBC to provide a spokesperson.
This issue, but they declined which is particularly surprising in view of the large number of complaints and just before we go on Wednesday Radio 4 you and yours had an expected from an outside source to sell a car on finance the question is whether it is friend in that's what I'm talking about here's some of you listening without raised by the and unbleached use of the f-word Alex can't stop laughing.
There are red faces at the BBC however, what had happened.
It's Peter Pritchard is the chief executive of Pets at Home until there was some cross lines at the start of the program today and that you could hear someone swearing.
I'm really really sorry about that until next week.
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