Read this: Kay Burley does breakfast

BBC sounds music Radio podcasts hello, I'm Andrea catherwood, and this is the media show from BBC Radio 4 hello and welcome you may think by now that this program has explored the medias brexit coverage from just about every angle until football commentator Clive Tyldesley came up with a new one.

He reckons that sports reporters would do a better job of brexit and political journalists will hear my little bit later, but first let me introduce you to our guests in the studio today the queen of thank you.

Ok.

You just switched from that hosting the afternoon slot on Sky News to the Breakfast Show and so many of us, so I think that you know you've swapped one of the most civilized set of working hours in use for a show that means you gotta get up at 3, am yes, I am and not just because I have to.

What time I get up at 4 because I start at 7 and I'm hoping in the fullness of time.

I'm going to be able to push that to 4:07 so yeah especially on a cold February morning that you're broadcasting from the studio in Westminster rather than from Skies main office west of London are you hoping to get big name politicians we are and we have we are we had quite a few big names already.

I sometimes in studio sometimes out on Abingdon green depending on whether brexit Steve shout or not.

We started wearing Madonna mic.

So people can hear is that little bit clearer? I'm still haven't had a prime minister.

Very keen to speak to the prime minister in the afternoon would be great to talk to him.

Even when we were doing the head to head during the Tory leadership campaign he didn't come in so we just did Germany not just with the Jeremy Hunt for an hour instead, but anytime will clear up schedule for.

I know you're not the only one.

I know is Voice UK executive editor.

Have you the HBO series the drama programme succession yes and it is very good.

I've asked you because succession is inspired by the Murdoch Dynasty and James Murdoch who owns a case broadcaster Sky is just bought a stake in your employer tell us a little bit of advice and why James Murdoch white want a slice of the action.

This is probably the biggest media company in the world right now.

So it makes sense that someone like James Murdoch my bit of that.

They have to say being compared to an Emmy nominated show us the first first so you know when is editor of BBC brexit cost and data show that started off as a very niche podcast with for BBC

Talking about the nuts and bolts of brexit.

It's become a TV show is it going really really well, we've been amazed by the audience response so yeah started as a podcast of the last general election in the transition into brexit brexit cast which was a kind of weekly podcast and then when stuff was happening and then bbc1s to make into a TV programme is getting average audience of about 900000 after Question Time on Thursday nights which is really really good and yeah, we'll see how it goes on the way you feel that looks deliberately like a version that mean it's basically like a camera in the studio was that really like this and just tell me what's going on as if we're just chatting here today.

You know there's no production values.

I think this is what we saying yeah exactly so when we are asked to do it by BBC One we insisted that we didn't change the feel of the podcast and that meant filming it in a radio studio, so we've

You got cameras in the studio.

We have slightly better cameras in in the brexitcast studio, but we don't have floor managers and directors, so it really keeps it feeling intimate and it's a podcast really well.

I mean I think some people who like podcasts probably wouldn't watch the TV programme that that's fine.

You know we're trying different things to different audiences.

Let me turn to breakfast and that's very crowded feel that you have jumped into your bank Today programme in the BBC's flagship and the setting program Piers Morgan interviews felt over on a good Morning Britain BBC Breakfast still has the biggest TV Share so where do you fit in well with the new kids when I certainly and then you can on the bungalow? It's my third attempt at breakfast.

I just felt that when the boss approach me.

I head of news.

I thought you know what that Piers Morgan has had this is the Bad Boys breakfast much too long so it's about time that somebody.

A bit so I said, what's up you I'm coming and you know we had a joke about it in all seriousness.

We're all very good friends if you worked in the media for as long as I have you tend to know most people and on BBC as well and of course I do today presenters, so there's this friendly rivalry, but we're all vying for the same guess more or less.

I think in the mornings, but if I can blow up my own trumpet.

We are the only breakfast program that comes from the heart of Westminster every single day in the password is for your breakfast show that mentions that your program will build on your social media following well over 400000 followers on Twitter do you see that night as an essential part of the job? I do I do a lot of people ask me about why I bother with you in the trolls.

I'm not bothered about trolls at all of my family or friends say to me all you ever step the Mark Farrell that wasn't appropriate then absolutely Twitter trolls couldn't care less you know the blokes in their 50s.

Basement drinking white striped waiting for the mother to come up for that.

He doesn't bother me in the slightest what they have to say and I do think that it's an immediate tool to be able to get the message out there just today.

I was interviewing labour politician that had a slip of the tongue and before I got back to the office.

It was trending did I certainly I saw it straight away, so hopefully you know that would be more people will be watching tomorrow.

That's how you build on your social media tools.

Obviously that's something that you know you talk to your boss is approaching you and saying that you fancy a breakfast and actually they must like it when you have a viral hit whatever whatever number viral is it is very important.

It is so easy to make mistakes and judge tweet does lurk around forever absolutely I've got plenty of them, but I think the thing to do is not to delete them.

I don't think it's a good idea deleting tweets.

I think I might infidelity 304 during my time of being on Twitter I think that you have to face up to you.

In order to be very popular on Twitter answer actually become a bit of a Twitter Sensation you do have to provoke him and you do that.

Don't you do when I stand up for myself.

I think provoking I think that's what I try and do and if people are rude.

I called him out on it and not saying that that's the right thing to do for everybody and I know that people like Gary Lineker have said that that's not what you should do something.

I love it.

You must have a thick skin to do though.

I've got feel like a rhino don't like the news but is impartiality for you and for Sky still vital that you don't contribute for example to Sky views which is a forest by journalists give their opinion and that's something I consciously don't do and a size Twitter is concerned.

I'm criticized by the far left by the far-right and everybody in between and

I'm doing my job properly you know if I wasn't if I was in any way by then Ofcom would have something to say about that can up until now.

They have never found against me so I think I'm probably ok and you don't look at people thinking of Piers Morgan of course who is making waves like a more opinionated maybe sailing close to the wind and he's also regulated by ofqual program a different to a news program that you do not I think that I know how to trade that line.

Hopefully things will manage it so far.

You've mentioned your longevity in the business and you were there at the launch of Sky News before and you know back then a lot of newscasters.

Lot of women who read the news they generally particularly in this country seems a pretty short shelf life.

They don't generation of you are above me.

It was generally moved on by the time.

They got into their 40s.

How much is a roads you say that you've played in changing the sincerely? Hope quite quite a big one you know I have them all live telling anybody else in the world.

I am one of the news readers in the country news presenters in the country and I'm very keen to pass that on.

I don't understand what is an issue here in United Kingdom over in the US he stepped down just coming up but you are blazing the trail so you know the question is I suppose do you feel that is all over the playing field is my level.

Yeah.

I think it's much more level and then you used to work in many decades ago and I get Sky Sky News we are in our Newsroom I don't think you could have said that in other news from the evening hours.

Maybe 20 years and Watson management looking like when you've got preceding vehicle and one of my assistant editors is

And my iPad is a woman as it's not just about the people in front of you.

Can't really have a quality until you've got and I think I'm in a meeting for the program.

I don't even notice if we're all women or what division is nothing that's probably progress last year Rupert Murdoch's old the family steak in sky comcast also and NBC News funding in place for 10 years.

Have you noticed any difference in operations without the Murdoch's what do you mean by that you mean influent? Do you do you feel any different know you've got it.

You're basically your owned by somebody else unbiased as we need me as we should be as of common.

Concern having said that.

We never got involved the whole time that I work for router which was more than 30 years.

You know and you know he has.

There's a lot wrong with them for Rupert Murdoch it's very easy to criticise them, but it hadn't been for him.

Then sky wouldn't have waves and as a result when I join Sky do it maybe four.

Channels is probably 300 plus TV channels now.

He never wants tell me how to do my job.

Did he give you anything back at all? No? No which is not always a good thing but never won the new boss Brian Roberts is the CEO and chairman of Chromecast working on plans for a global NBC Sky News channel is going to be brought into the world when I broadcast to the world already.

I think we broadcast to 168 Charles we have 700 million people who access can.

I use every week whether it's Fire TV channels or online or via radio 1 podcast with her so I did already but what about if there is a new NBC Sky Channel and you news channel.

Which is what they're talking.

A month ago and you know I think my head of news always says change your time.

I watch this space.

Good to hear it.

Good to hear it will if you think that's ok, and I haven't been talking very much about brexit and talking about the news.

That's all what to change.

I'm afraid because of all the takes on brexit and the media that time on the show and I know we've done plenty who's on your ankle would sports journalists make a better job of reporting brexit.

They football commentator Clive Tyldesley posted a video online this week and it has been shared thousands of times here's a quick clip.

I put my business is leaving the country down every time I hear anyone to say that the head with brexit and just I feel ashamed to be a part of the UK media.

We have allowed people to become bored with the single most important national news story of the last 50 years.

are we continue to let them down every day and I'm not sure I would have let them down in the news media as well Clive Tyldesley is currently preparing to take for BT Sport tonight on the slavia Prague against Barcelona match but I put up with him a little bit earlier for more of his tactical analysis of political journalism trade Gutteridge he was he was a fanatical advocate of inclusive broadcasting he would chastise me for commentating to the footballer was the managers that I spent my time with he would always say to me that my Grandma counts as one viewer just like the England manager so common take to her don't shut her out of your conversation and I do think that some political Correspondents are stuck in the Westminster bubble they in my opinion report to be reviewed by their peers rather than

Understood I think I see too many performances for my liking particularly at hate the the smug the sides that kind of conversion error pantomime about the whole process and procedures don't help but this is serious stuff and even though football team sport is nothing like as important as brexit our audience take it very seriously and I think a little bit more seriousness a little bit more engagement would have happened to motorsport story you said that the news reports there are often conflicting sign bites.

He says black.

She said why where is in Sport with the manager says for example that the goal is offside that you would then look at it and make a decision.

Do you think that that's what political commentator should be doing it is an argument between black and white well actually most of us.

Looking for some middle ground the that we can identify if you do look at the Poles and ok.

They're only poles but they are regularly reporting for remain and at least evidence should empower the media to challenge This recurring rhetoric of just want it done now.

I don't think politicians should be allowed to say those things without challenge.

I know you're in favour of a people's vote and you spoken at a rally in support of it is you're really really that as people get more and more fed up that means that they generally want to get brexit done.

They want to leave in other words the media hasn't really done the job of persuading more of the population to think like you is that why you're annoyed?

That poor broadcast journalism and Leaver or remainer.

I think what happens if the interview clip with the politician sometimes dictates the headline story this is a News Bulletin it's not a hustings and I think that's for rolling use I think the danger there is that with the inevitable editorial desired to try refreshing the story of the Mary before we get into comment before we detail than explains the actual content of the story.

I think we need more of an overview whichever side of the fence you're sitting on at the moment sports commentator Clive Tyldesley there, so is Clive right well as in sen is Vice UK's executive editor is it the fault of journalist that so many people seem disengaged confused or just fed up with brexit.

I mean not to give our professional free pass on that but I do think that you know this is one of the most.

New story to emerge in last 50 years because simply because it's been going on for so long and when you think about that then you start understanding that it's really an endurance marathon is not really you know go out in the same way you might go out a normal you sorry because you know anything to happen and next couple of years and in many ways it reminds me of the with the American news media cover trump so with Donald Trump with his election.

It was a constantly moving new story because you were so unpredictable so volatile you never knew what was happening next and not to compare brexit to Donald Trump particularly, but it is informing that all things up for grabs all bets are off and I think that's been really challenging for the news media was saying pays into that the idea that you are at the news that actually reporting this pantomime.

These are things that are happening and every day something different happens rather than perhaps analysing and explaining and that's what he's saying.

The news that newsmakers should do is that do you think that is a criticism that's fair.

I think the word pantomime is interesting because it realigned of the way that what currently happening in politics right.

There's a pantomime is slightly Ludacris it's quite ridiculous.

You know you know half a month ago.

Nobody knew who Blackrod was friends and yet here we are at someone to come and see you so embody the pantomime in pomp and circumstance of Parliament was not many readers will have ever engaged in their lives.

I mean our tactic has always been too kind of cut through all that pantomime really kind of deliver the news in a way that makes sense and contextualized within our young readers lives so for instance.

We wouldn't report on you know the falling value of the pound you wouldn't put it in the context of how it makes sense.

I read it.

So you know we didn't article recently that said this is how the falling pound is affected by brexit and is How It's Gonna affect your easyJet holiday to Berlin is about contextualizing things for your audience.

UNIQLO complaints is largely directed at people like you the BBC really obsessed with achieving balance of going out on a limb in case it upsets one side of the argument so you just present both sides and say you're the use of you and make your mind up.

I take issue with a lot of what I've said first of all.

I don't by the fact that people are interested and engaged look at the numbers of people clicking on the BBC News website or watching the BBC news channel Sky News when there's a big brexit story the numbers are through the roof you know we have a podcast which is for Political Correspondents talking about on paper with low production values as no CVT is there anything you know one of the most successful podcast in this country hundreds of thousands of people are watching us, so I don't by the fact that people aren't one thing analysis and then he said we not analysing which kind of presenting you know a news clipping and letting people make up their mind.

And battery be their political editors spend hours on College Green giving analysis and that's what we're trying to do in brexitcast as well.

This is giving Alice and really gets under the skin of the story so I wondered do you know is there a split between those people who are tuning in to brexit cast on BBC Parliament channel that watching watching k and all her colleagues and actually engaging and every twist and turn of this story brexit fans.

You might say and those who aren't engaged at all and it doesn't simply all going over their heads and it's very hard to find a point of entry and the BBC of course everybody that's what it's tasked with doing and not be very difficult when you've got people you're starting from very different points on the story so what we try to do with brexitcast and we know and it goes to Lee that the people who listen to see you any other programs political programmes that we met this really what time do you know they don't have people to meetings going this is my only source of brexit news and we're trying to deliver it in a very.

Stylist the correspondence and editors at the end of the day after they finished all they're broadcasting Commitments sticking their shoes off leaning back in her chair and what did we learn from today taking the audience and the scenes lifting up the curtain and people really appreciate that we know you know we have 17 year olds and Glasgow studying you not even studying politics messaging us going never ever engage with political coverage before but I really like listening to brexitcast you kind of you know it's like hearing people that know what they're talking about explain a really complex subjects and sure they won't pick up every single little bit of analysis or every every kind of time that we mention.

They won't have a reference point to everything but you know they will largely come away understanding.

What's happened today in that hugely important story Android video he does actually call-out Sky News devising your pop-up brexit free news channel.

He says it's an admission of guilt that you've made brexit so boring and

That you've got to have a channel doesn't have brexit and I would never criticize another broadcaster, so I'm not going to criticize Clive what we do is incredibly difficult what I would say is actually rather than saying people are not interested because our viewers are figures and figures that show that they are and since we moved our breakfast show to Parliament are figures have increased significantly so I'm not sure that necessarily the case but also for people who don't want to watch and learn about brexit all of the time there another option that we are making available to him and brexit is an incredibly complicated subject.

I'm looking at a Tweet from Beth Rigby saying there will be no checks between Northern Ireland and Great Britain was the p.m.

Steve Barclay said the very very opposite and a select committee hearing earlier this week.

It is our job to call out until the straight and these five.

The benefit of an online news outlets like it was so that you can actually see just how many people are clicking on a specific news story I know advice you you right and you run plenty of popular.

Are they compared to your most read stories one of the more popular forms of the post.

I put out so we're not just my kind of platform agnostic really Instagram stuffing got Snapchat to go on our website can go on Twitter and actually we've had the most amount of Engagement on a political stories on Instagram completely up to you think about it.

So glossy selfies holiday snap celebrities that actually we've had enormous commercial success.

Just putting up playing text Paul saying this is just what happened and explaining more and packing it in the car.

You have tons of people just tagging their friends and it's saying hey you look at this people putting emojis before reacting and real-time it's really interesting and it's a real kind of expansion of the possibly.

Something like Instagram I think a lot of people slam and necessarily can I wanted to ask you what Ken Clarke father of the house in criticised Downing Street spokesman, who he described as very peculiar people for a briefing media and essentially trying to influence how the media are reporting developments these Downing Street sources been called up my number 10 sources telling you what to think about brexit developments.

Speak to us and tell us how it would like how is potentially they would like to see the story but Beth Rigby Laura Coombs Berg listen.

I'm sure Julie politely but there are no way influenced by what number 10 Italian can I do my can I do my brexit guide will make even Clive love you have are you listening? I think that the dog the new dog at number 10 should have been called bricks.

That's the name of the document.

Brexit gonna get dogs into the media sources and away from Pets your Correspondents are Incredibly Close to number 10 sources all the time you know there is that symbiotic relationship between journalists and politicians that both of them need to do their job.

Do you think that you are podcast in the people that are in at those for correspondence probably come under more pressure than many because so many people inside the Westminster bubble listen to brexit cast it was really interesting is that the same people briefing our Correspondents also listen to it.

So we know that you know Cabinet ministers comments.

I really enjoyed the podcast and give us a feedback about pressure.

Is it? I mean what makes Laura kuenssberg the top of her game.

Back to that she is in contact with people right at the top of government and she can come after a long day and say what I know what people are talking about the top of government and analyse that I'm break that down and discuss it with catchy.

He's been briefed by people in Europe so when they all come together and you know that gives the audience and insight that they wouldn't get from anywhere else was how many other people have that information and very few people as you mentioned you really let you know they wouldn't necessarily know what's going on at number 10 and let our correspondence and report that it's just everything that's what's the popularity of things like brexit cost because it's so informal.

It's really like catching up with your friends at the pub the most informed well-connected friends and I think that's what you know the newly engaged me to show that side of you know newsgathering.

Where is informal it's chatty it like I'm going to the drama of it rather than just you know the nitty-gritty of West

Talking about drama all those hours that you spent on College Green being heckled.

Do they actually contribute to the public's understanding of brexit? I mean it's become a focal point for so much and can the media be accused of stalking division in the country.

Would it be better of News programmes went back to the studio? That's a great question and you know we defend to the death people's right to enable you to say exactly what they want to say but to that end.

We put Madonna Mike's on so that you can hear is a bit clearer than those of the little under your you wouldn't want me to sing to me.

I can't carry a tune in a bucket.

OK OK well.

I'm afraid that we're going to have to leave it there.

We've we've had a dog joke but we have any singing Sophie that but for now.

I'm many thanks to all this week's guests to have BT Sports commentator Clive Tyldesley

Barely of Sky News we had two insane from Voice UK and Dennis offers the editor of BBC brexitcast to subscribe to the media Show podcast on BBC sounds and back with more next.