Read this: The British drama boom
Summary: PodcastDownload MP3 www.bbc.co.ukThe British drama boom…
BBC sounds music Radio podcasts Happy New Year to you all.
Thank you for listening when you could they be watching TV set in last few days.
I bet you have a few box sets perhaps because the subject of today's show is the UK Drama industry Britain traditional channels might be losing viewers to Netflix and Amazon but when it comes to the actual shows all streaming brilliant producers are very much.
You should never tell a psychopath.
They're a psychopath.
Are you upset?
See a just world is a saying world.
It was nothing saying about Chernobyl
the Crown must win must always win.
The Crown Chernobyl killing Eve behind all of them if the amount of money British production companies make from selling their shows around the world is now at a record high of 1.4 billion pounds and exports for the most recent 12-month period so the questions for today are how much longer will this boom last is the industry perhaps now fatally addicted to us Megan and what role does Lidl old BBC and ITV britbox play in the future.
I got some fantastic guess.co.uk Harwood is here.
She is the managing director of Euston films production company behind shows that Dublin murders and cards and Kate very good to see what new line up 2020 that you can tell us about coming up very soon on Channel 4.
I have a show called Baghdad central which is providing comfortable right as you can put child be shot it in Morocco and it tells the story of an Iraqi cop who is sort of makes the choice to collaborate with the Coalition forces?
Pocket put a daughter of his through dialysis getting to the Green hospital have to look for his missing daughter as well, so it sort of police procedural with a different perspective on our screens early in the new year was Jason King is here a date along with his brother is the brains behind rebellion the studio known that now mainly for video game Jason Voorhees x new onto your vast Empire which is a construction of a film and TV studio to capitalise on the current demand for space to fill things that should say tell me about video games you got me for services to the British economy voice and the chair of that and we do quite a lot to try and hire people from disadvantaged Communities we do a lot of outreach.
We do a lot of entry level.
Positions for people that might want to get into the high tech industry this computer games 27 years old in a bedroom with my brother employed staff wasn't sure what to do with the first metro start running to make me a cup of tea and then you get on with doing some artwork for one of the games were making we were very keen on making contact number above code and I'm an artist and designer the key point is pulling together technology designers writers artists performers to make a computer game that goes worldwide and the interesting thing listening to some of your contributors.
Is that the computer game space is truly global so I have a put option at places like steam epic Sony and Microsoft so I just give them the game that I've made a release so basically Sony PlayStation Microsoft do Xbox and epic and steam above big PC game distributors.
Online stores that have an internet connection you can get your PC game from those and us as a creator of games we get the lion's share of the money the consumer pays 50 then we get not quite 50 quid off the consumer so we get the money direct and there's nobody that tells us what we can or can't put on that platform are we do the Sniper Elite series so when on Sniper Elite 5 that's coming up that's being massive every Sniper Elite game that comes out is a worldwide number one hit by worldwide and simultaneous worldwide number one hit across all regions.
Where games are sold as is on the army series as well as another zombie army coming up it does what it says about zombies in an army.
It's very clever totalling tens of millions and millions actually simultaneously sometimes in the games industry is much bigger than TV and much bigger than film It Must Be the Music that we don't talk about it.
Is gaming system between technology and its extraordinary size of an Indian film TV and multimedia don't engage with the new media or find it very difficult to deal with it.
So I'm I'm I'm not a digital native.
I didn't grow up in the digital space, but I can't ever green people called my generation, but there are there is a generation of people that I employ that basically don't watch telly.
They basically don't listen to Old Media they look at YouTube day.
They do some streaming but their way of consuming Media is fundamentally different obsessed the subject see Jason in Belfast studio is Piers Wenger who is the BBC trailer of drama peers and what you're most excited in 2020 about what is it to be she's got which are really excited about something very exciting coming up tonight.
And the night after we have Dracula launching written by Steven Moffat and Mark Gatiss strolling place bang and Dolly Wells it is Dracula is an adaptation of the Bram Stoker novel, but not quite as you know it.
It's a brilliant piece of work every bit of bold and brilliant as Sherlock could have you with what you write back.
Please? We'll talk about you too.
Much is a contemporary feel that it doesn't very contemporary and programs this past decade is one that has really stuck with me and I'm really excited to be talking about that any given moment and so we got coming up.
There's also marry Blackman noughts and crosses is something that I am particularly thrilled to be seeing on our screens because I read that growing up and now all these years later.
It's still so relevant.
Just ludicrous and also that the specific and particular and his family is the cost of an hour of drama risen in the past few years.
Just give us a sense well here everybody talks about the US co-production dollars, but I can't pretend to come with Dell uses of cash and just left you out of out of trouble and introduction all of those really hard one and you'll have to find somebody who connect with your project in.
The initiating the Anchor broadcaster here if you're starting here does and that's you know that's like a marriage but the other thing that affected it here which happened to come in at the same time or similar sort of time was the return of the tax breaks which meant that budgets were almost instantly pushed higher because the qualifying threshold look back to what I was making shows for 20-years ago and it was actually hi, we we dropped a lot roundabout 2018 the crash and made things in very different ways so we actually British but it's got quite low but I'd give it a 10 hours sometime between the cheapest and what's the most expensive but there are international dramas made to destroy someone's made way over 3 million dollars probably but it is variable.
I mean I'm you know just finished shooting a full Potter for ITV written by Neil cross with four.
One would hope that wouldn't cost the same as Dublin murders, did he had nearly 75 acts as you know he's shooting for 8 months in in Belfast and Dublin so it's you know it's you know we can obviously ok you mentioned your new drugs Channel 4 Baghdad central.
Can you give a sense of how much that cost was out in the Range how come on come on? I don't have much information on how much computer games cause to me careful about about specific budgets.
I'm going to sort of sweets with generalities specifics is just so you know we shot that in Morocco they've just introduced tax breaks shooting it in Morocco of CB couldn't shoot it in Iraq we had a big american-style Corrie stars in it and these things you can get.
Backwards and forwards and it's going to be expensive.
It's not something somebody bedroom is it can you explain the context is 2003 just after the Fall of Saddam everything is pretty chaotic in Baghdad and our Iraqi hero finds himself kind of thing through a bit of a sort of time.
He's arrested for no reason torture, but the but he catches the eye of a Brit played by Bertie carvel.
Who's working in the Coalition to restart the Iraqi police force men like you future.
Visit me tomorrow.
Or we can talk a little longer right here.
Is it to wear the green zone?
Republican Palace no less
I was not work for you.
Bring Your Daughter bringing Rouge
If you wish I can arrange for a see a doctor.
Get the dialysis unit did Channel 4 put up the money has it has it founded does it go production? It's it's a nice and smooth and Channel 4 and Channel 4 put into development.
Thanks peers and its distributed by my parent company Fremantle and in the US we're playing on Hulu and there's a bunch the sales internationally I can't obviously talk about the company's.
Why does it take so many customers customers companies to give me to get it off the ground and what channel is at present used in film Rocky arabic-english.
It's virtually 80% middle-eastern origin of British Middle Eastern actors, but not all it's still difficult to put together some of.
Can interesting complex projects and Fremantle funded the deficit so that's what these big distribution companies do they fund a deficit and then sell it on forever 2019 was caused his Dark Materials and that was made with HBO us cable channel.
Why work with a fear of the finance within oneself.
I think if you look at the sort of work, but hpoa doing I think they really are the best in class globally and we partner with them a lot.
We made Gentleman Jack with them Sally Wainwright's period drama about Anne Lister which are the earlier this year and years and years Russell T Davies dystopian.
Look into the future through the from the point of view of one Mancunian family.
I have deep pockets.
They are they like to support ideas and writer's vision make sure that they end up on screen in the very best possible way, but they're also very smart editorially and have a lot of the same interests that we do in the same passion.
Peters and telling story setting fantastical Worlds in a Game of Thrones obviously been there their biggest show of all time and so they were very natural partner for his Dark Materials and would it be for the PC to fund his Dark Materials without HBO because it means that we can leverage greater value to the sea for the audience so we were able to make his Dark Materials and a lot of other dramas.
Where is if we don't even know if we have to pay for his Dark Materials in it's entirety.
We would have made far fewer shows so really we start ideas.
We develop a lot and then produces take those ideas out to market once once they have the BBC commitment and there's such an appetite globally foreign language drama that were able to make those the very very best of their potential using in a using that international money and the past 80 months or so, you know I spend my life.
BBC talk about the Tech giants and the role they play and reshaping media course advertising and talk about things that Disney plus this year apple plus Netflix over the past 80 months BBC is actually paid today bit from the streaming of flying back to work with an American American cable channels like HBO already mentioned as a co-production with Netflix we have The Serpent a big true crime series coming up later in the images also a partnership with them and we're making small axe Steve McQueen series Amazon but you know there is a real collective passion and instinct and taste with HBO in particular and that has meant that we've you know works with what's a lot with them are kind of visions and no tastes and interests of realigned the bridge conundrum.
Phoebe waller-bridge's is quintessentially British possibly once in a generation Talent she does fleabag and killing Eve for the BBC she subsequently signed deal for holiday rooms we were several tens of millions of pounds.
What does that tell us about the BBC's financial power in the new world that it should cultivate and help create and nurture someone who is so phenomenal such an international star but the ultimately the American dollars in the BBC One think about her future.
I think the BBC is here to create it is here to be a home Talent at the very beginning of its career and you know I think it just makes us all genuinely proud when you see a writer Talent like Phoebe because I kind of global you know global icon and that's what that's a big part of what we're here to do and yeah, it's genuinely thrilling.
It's not great for the BBC is it?
The next three or four dramas going to be airing first off an Amazon is obviously busy play The Wonderful role in helping to nurture and the BBC is order certain fundamental, she's now sorry works Amazon I don't think people really care that much about how they consume to say I think you know Talent has two has two ranged far and wide, but I think that it's clear lot of British talent.
It means a great deal to be seen on the BBC because of Reacher sofa, show me the set to film on just tell us about your business with this year is used to have a new year starting to do a film and television development.
We've got a huge back catalogue of comic books in 2018 that we go and book company and what we want to do is make drama and one of the problems for us as a new entrant in the drama film does where on earth are we going to fill these so typical Rebellion start my brother and I said sure we can just find a big sheds.
So we found a big shed that it's luckily it so it's an old print Works so it's actually soundproofed.
It's very big shed that soundproof which is perfect soundproof to stop the noise the machinery from going out but if it works the other way round as well.
So send it is 250000 square feet is up and running now.
We got two projects already working there and where then developing some of the studio space further so it's incredibly exciting since like scary actually don't worry done.
Give me that you've done this because there is a huge huge demand for studio space in the UK and it's something that we have a fair bit on the show at this time when it comes to the creative Talent in the UK and finally places to film drums and me from Netflix investing in Shepperton to what's going on in Wales at the moment.
Everyone's looking for studio space and if you look at the graph of the UK's economic growth in the graph for the creative Industries outpaced the UK economic growth by quite some way.
It's not all about what's around the M25 when we Dublin murders be shot in Belfast and in Dublin and yes, you know that there's a lot of congestion there as well, but there a young cruise out there who really kind of take on an experience giving a lot of work on Game of Thrones another Big Show you know they take on challenges in a way that I fail to see quite so readily in the Southeast actually but it's true we do need more studio space definitely speculative looking they got a project.
They haven't got the money for them putting those deals together.
They complex may take a long time, but they're also reaching out to us to say when is your student available.
I've got to say that it isn't all about the Big Show as well.
I love them look his Dark Materials was just a joy for me from from start to finish, but you know there are other there are other ways of telling stories.
You know ways of really entertaining and moving the audience that doesn't need mega budgets or doesn't mean need can a huge studio space you know we are launching an adaptation of Sally Rooney's novel normal people later on this year and that is the most intimate is the smallest most intimate and intense story a Kind of Love Story between 18 and Irish boy in the young Irish girl told over 5 years of their lives and the intimate can be as powerful as the epic do you fit an obvious that you in a program that subscription fatigue is going to set it at some point let me know.
I just had a paternity leave and I made myself in this wonderful Hindi crime dramas on Netflix on trying to come in Hindi
Don't know I watch Delhi crime and I watch them Sega games with fantastic.
I think that feels like it is primarily due to the older viewers.
I think younger ones just don't particularly interested in those sorts of historic programs that we see on ITV and BBC and a lot of them are on Netflix now anyway.
They probably will be taken off but you know but I just think that might be a step too far in narrowing the field.
I suppose it work when you I know it's overwhelming for you for me.
It's really exciting that you can go onto Netflix I have so many degrees.
You know weather is about hot movie whether it's about British police dramas.
I mean you know the categories can get ready now if you look at the danger with with.
Overly created with being a few like that watch this is that you just spend it watching a lot of the same kind of stuff because it's a computer program.
Who's making those choices for you.
I think there's there's real pleasure Discovery in broadening your taste and broadening your Horizons by making your own choices not by being fed them yet people don't know the box is this is this cross UK to trace your broadcast option it's coming from ITV channel 4 Channel 5 and BBC coming together.
It's gonna have a lot of archived content that will be an ability to have some original content is it was it was envisaged as a genuine competitor to Netflix how do you receive it now? What do you think about it? But I don't Commission from the BBC spective.
It has a role which is separate to the Royal from iPlayer which as you know is about accessing recent programs programs that have been there for up to.
12-months britbox, I think it's more about archive and you know who's who's going to turn their noses up at the chance to watch Fawlty Towers you know when you want to so there's a lot of wonderful content on there, but I think it says a different purpose to iPlayer which is obviously my my big consideration as a producer.
What do you make a bread box is what most of all not surprising his people to watch their shows and anything that extends the life of a show and you know our latest product Neil cross with Mayflower TV will be going you know we have we have those brick box right there and it's great.
It's a great new home for something that you don't have to say to a local audiences.
Oh, sorry did you miss it on the telly and the catch-up service? You'll just wait till it turns up somewhere else you can now you know they know where they can find it.
So it won't connect to look at 5-years.
You think she's actually going to compete on an international stage with Netflix and Amazon
I don't know I mean the thing I've been asking every time.
I'm anywhere near BBC person who might be coming out to it is in a we Were Promised at one point international iPlayer I remember that remember that announcement and you know I don't know how big that audiences.
Do I know there are people internationally and me when I'm on holiday to want to be able to put the pin number on the iPad so I think there is a big international reach for it.
I think British dramas has a kind of reputation.
So who knows I mean.
I wish it well.
I hope it works to support program.
That's for sure.
There is a film streaming service called filmstruck, which was all that archive films and that folded very quickly that was only lasted for a couple of years.
I think if that I just yet.
I just don't think in terms of yeah.
They need to be very careful about your new shows coming on because I just don't think there is the audience and that perhaps already isn't going to be able to access it or understand it.
What's the weather in Eastleigh shows always something out on the catch up and then we'll go to britbox sort of so within the calendar year will be on britbox.
I wish I'd seen that and you know it's it's been that true for I think for ITV and Channel 4 for the BBC shows you know the sender 12-months on iPlayer will will you know mean that they are there as part of the licence for you offering for a year before they go onto the subscription service OK great.
I just want to talk about other people mention which is the idea that this was about to go pop in 2020 that some people look at the Netflix business model and I actually this is completely unsustainable debt fuelled and it can't go on as you look at Hunter and as a critic Rihanna Rihanna you're not you're not to worry.
Let's hope he gets you say you're literally paid at to watch stuff, but do you think at some point there's going to be a leveling out that is going to be a reduction in the number of
We actually going to consolidate now for 5 so big main services exactly what I think I can see it heading and I know you know there's a lot of talk about streaming threatening television and also let you know so much money being spent on films people going out to the cinema still you know more than ever before and I still think there.
Are you know I think of generational people on television obviously in the same way.
I think exactly like you say I have sort of two or three streaming services that I will always proved well, so I think I player is a huge part of that for me.
I will never watch live television anymore.
I will go straight to iPlayer Netflix Amazon music bought some point Netflix again have to ask my son to actually put password in.
My youngest son who's a cameraman is just wrapped on a huge production the Brave New World for peacock which is an NBC you new streaming service which has been shooting in Wales you know doing massive builds and and experience down there and he know he's been feeling on that first 3-months so it's not anytime soon this year's studio space because you think it's going to go on and on about content.
It'll be on a screen and also said that but large amount of it is listening podcast that kind of stuff, but it's a it's an electronic device that goes with them wherever they go and so they don't really mind it's a bit like I like it sometimes to make a phone call.
You have your favourite phone signal supply that you pay the money to but you don't really care who's handling the phone call.
There's a lots of big industry behind it.
Is the content you care about making a phone call to another person efficiently and effectively the same with content really that you could argue that the only thing that matters is content.
I don't think that's the case.
I think there's other people in their mix that need to be added to it, but but broadly speaking I can see it democratizing.
You could almost imagine a shower over the top of all the other streaming companies and you say I want to watch the latest whatever it is and it negotiates with those streaming companies and does a deal and and takes it small piece of the action when it happens.
It's a full of arbitrage.
Thank you very much.
I really appreciate your time goes by Kate Harwood from Belfast Jason Kingsley and Rihanna Dylan see you all the same time.
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