Read this: The man driving Jeremy Clarkson

BBC sounds music Radio podcasts from BBC Radio 4 we are on a Grand Tour today without guests coming from Two hemispheres and spending a lot of time travelling between them and the woman has been called the fourth wheel to the trio of Jeremy Clarkson Richard Hammond and James May but that rather understates is influenced as executive producer of Top Gear and return the show into one of the BBC's most successful, export that he took them to Amazon Prime video with the Grand Tour and you're welcome.

Is it your debut on the Ed show no I did it once in 2016 when we just launched the Grand Tour cost of your ultimate boss Jeff Jesus once said that the deal to sign it was very very very expensive contact if you had them since we had an email from me, so I got his email address.

Will be like an assassin will be delivered prime delivery that you're gone so not next-day.

What happens to make sure you're delivering a bank for his back.

Well.

You know I think probably with like any other streaming services.

You'll never get any figures.

You don't get anything you don't get any indication in terms of viewing figures watching.

How are you doing? So all you do know is if you're number one streaming or you done well and he said shout at you.you presume.

You've done well, but you don't get you don't get weary sign so I figure that's ok.

We've done something ok? You don't get some consider area that says that says she's very happy with you apart from that one email which with all cats.

Ok?

Good luck if you like delivery of shampoo, and the books and stuff like that, please from Australia we have Mark Ryan if you are a reporter your ears or to pick up at this point because Mark has over 50 million pounds to the in journalism.

Thanks to his role as executive director at the Neilson Institute for journalism and ideas Mark welcome to the show who is Judith Neilson and issue the saviour of journalism well, she might be I think that are addictive Judith not that well known even in Australia to the extent.

She is now and it's for her art collection.

She's built up one of the world's leading collections of contemporary chinese art and architecture for a couple of years ago.

She decided to broaden her philanthropic activity and thought it might be a good idea to support quality journalism as you give you 100 million.

Australian dollars to spend pretty much as you see fit right now.

We have an independent board otherwise people who help us make decisions about where to invest that money, but it's early days for only one year old wee in place.

We have a team of very good international advisers who also contribute to our deliberations and we basically a setting out as I said to support quality in whatever way.

We can we have about 12 projects underway at the moment which are collaborations with media of different types so large Legacy Media organisations, but also new ones and small small major organisations in remote Communities a lot of people a lot of people listen to show at desperately want your money and it is a picked up 26 minutes because a lot of people flooding you that location straight after you come off it yourself and your fellow Australians will call you because you had a prominent role working for Paul Keating the foremost Rail

Is it you something a bit of a Alastair Campbell finger Australian the late 90s? I don't think I play the game as rough and tough as some people might just be there, but it was that kind of a role that was an advisor Company Secretary type of roll is here and today.

She's a genus of the Sydney Morning Herald and the age at Australian titles latika and basin and was the last story you fart.

Well interestingly was a big spot on air with Piers Morgan if you've heard of him and actually he was not the focus.

It was Laura Tobin meteorologist said she presents the weather on ITV's good morning present bias in one of the climate denial or sceptic MPs in the government in Australia on to the program basically to give him a bit of a dressing gown about being a climate tonight and I think it suited everybody is purpose.

Viral I'd certainly suited the MP in question Craig Kelly because the more he talks about people questioning the science of climate change.

I'm not kidding you should see his social media feeds it just gets flooded with support and people saying good on you Craig giving out to the Conspiracy mainstream.

Media etc.

Etc.

Of course ITV very well out of it.

They've had I took that millions of times but the real stars me with Laura Tobin who when I interviewed her yesterday morning.

I asked her if she thought it was insulting what this MP had said about her after this interview which was an ignorant Tommy Girl now.

Laura's study physics.

She's a material that she's had a decade and more experienced forecasting and text you just said I don't care as long as it's contributing to the climate change in Australia is not likely to be in other parts of the world readable get onto just before we do that.

We talk about funny journalism.

What do you make the Australian

Absolutely and I think we'll probably get to this a bit later in this segment, but Australian journalism is largely dominated by two heads one is my publication the other dominant Force in the most dominant Force in Australia is the Murdoch media and the Murdoch media has had a huge part in shaping a lot of the economic policies a lot of how we talk about climate change for instance and so it has come to probably have a disproportionate role in the public debate in Australia but quite aside from that philosophical Leeds it's good to have more competition in the media sector one of my great distress is that I started my career as a radio journalist at Uno 19 years old walking in asking for work experience and I got a job that radio station now syndicates a signal radio station and that means my can't you tell her I grow up.

He's not getting it sorted from use and I think that's a huge part that are contributing to the disaffection.

People in their communities in the regions in the metropolitan area of a picture I used to work in this you work for local titles before you worked briefly for part of murder me.

Didn't you before you went deposits now was announced by by the murderdolls when I worked here now.

Ok? Just give me that it's a lot more stages not more now in a sense then UK media which is vociferous and Loud and a bit crazy try I'm in the middle of tabloids in both Sydney and Melbourne I think can hold her own against most hated words around the world, but will take US Army News Corporation controls.

I think it's roughly 70% one Way Or Another and that's why I think it is important that an Institute like ours comes along and somebody like you that doesn't make this kind of investment because it will lead I think I've ever tried to grab more journalists and a lot of projects that we've already started for example have created new positions for journalists while I did not exist before.

Many many people listen to this thing.

I want someone is mad money.

Do you invest in projects outside of Australia we do we will do in fact one of the big projects that we don't want this year is called agents stories and the idea here is to create a platform for the long-term.

So I'm talking about a dick Idol to to create a platform to create more collaborations in the wider Asian region and involve training Media in that as well.

Get more peer-to-peer exchange is happening between user and in the region and also just to try and shine a more of a global spotlight on Asia everybody I think now accept the licence evasion is the centre of the world economically strategically and will continue to be so so to the extent that parents that you can play a role in supporting more cover data analysis over time it will be a good thing either too obvious responses to fill out freezer way of fun in Chinese and will be familiar with this one is that people say this is just a way of

Individual and then there's no guarantee of independence.

Would you say that well as I said earlier we have an independent board el patron Judith Neilson plays no role in The Institute so she's providing the fan, but has no role at all either a board level or in the day-to-day operations of the Institute and the prophet is the best guarantee of independence, so is there a danger in any journey to get dependent out with your friend free all this future for journalism in a nutshell is hybrids.

I think that there will be many different kinds of models emerge over the next decade or so some will continue if you were play commercial operations.

It will be people who can make a living out of journalism, but equally there'll be plenty that can't and so I think they'll be a mixture of commercial working with Philanthropists some countries like Australia with government as well with her taxpayer-funded Media Ventures so I think it will be a mix of all of these things and it will depend on the given market and format the platform.

Maybe that was talking about so you know we've got I think that's why we've come onto the scene at the right time in Australia where there is a lot of volatility and there is now An Appetite for collaboration within the media didn't exist a few years ago at this very sad in the news this week, because we've all seen these horrific pictures of the bushfires and hope you guys don't have family there been adversely affected by it been talking to the media has been the Prime Minister Scott Morrison Handling of this crisis you work for an Australian Prime Minister who had a mini crisis including bushbye ones.

How do you catch phrase Morrisons Hanley this well? I think most people agree.

It's been clumsy at first but more than that.

I think it's puzzle a lot of political Watchers because if anybody would be tune to henlans Christ as well.

We would have thought it would be Scott Morrison a form of marketing guy somebody who prides himself on having his finger on the Pulse of the common, man is it worth?

No, it's possible lot of people that he went on holiday to Hawaii in the first place, but is puzzle them even more that since his return almost on a daily basis is compounded the problem and I think he's in the place that you never want to be as a politician and that's playing catch up so every gesture that he tries to make Mia is viewed through a very sceptical and cynical lens and so I don't know what the breaker is very nice one incongruity golf between the way newspapers are reporting what he's doing Australia and what's happened on social media.

Let's hear a click that went at the moment you visit the town kogarah, New South Wales last week and try to shake hands with some locals we have hearts of gold Mr Prime Minister

Dantdm and I've been looking at front pages.

You don't see much of her the same scepticism that people on social media you looking at the new school publications are heavily back in Scott Morrison he is there man he engineered a shock victory in May nobody expected musical said all along that he could win at their been vindicated and they feel like they have a lot of steak in this and I feel like I have a lot of steak and him doing well.

So you enjoyed very good relationships with the Murdoch press, so there's been some laugh of all kind of copy written in the Australian for example of broadsheet with his perceived difficulties always perceived clumsy management.

I mean on every objective measure Scott Morrison and his team himself admits.

He did not handle this well.

The tourist reviews on climate change into parliament you mentioned the dominance of particular groups within Australia media and it's effect on climate change debate, what is the tenor of climate change Australia newspapers the best way to think about the way climate change existing Australia as an issue is to simply substitute the word brexit for climate change and you're pretty got the cream.

I got the same dynamic.

So you have a hard right wing in the governing coalition.

That's the Liberal National Party and that is filled with sceptics and denies and they do not want to study to be revising its industry.

I mean we are a fossil fuel economy.

We have been for many decades.

We've enjoyed an interrupted prosperity and economic growth because of it largely.

So they say there's no way we go out the Industries that give us a wonderful living standards for the sake of some symbolism now on the other side.

You have people who was saying Australia is a leg and we're not doing enough we could have been.

Fostering renewable solar wind all of it, but we've done nothing for about a decade and so this is opened up a huge split in a community where now it is not talked about as a proposition anymore.

It is talks about purely as a cultural one and so the bushfires have taken group here because you have people saying what this is the climate change that we were told about 10 years ago here are those Megabus fires that reports in 2008 were predicting and then on the right.

They have that is engineered campaigns to say when they were caused by arson us.

So it's just any old Bush know it'll and clearing management the grain into trying to stop us doing back burning you've got to try to but necessarily by all of the criticism of News Corporation along with you with News Corporation and look at what it's done for journalism over 60 years.

Some spectacular missteps of course and they can and do get political but that's a right there a major organisation.

I look at that.

I look at what news corp has brought to the Australian journalism community is much more on the on the right side of that later than the wrong side.

What is the editor at large of her? You probably one of if not the leading and most highly respected journalists on a board alright.

It's it's it's it's amazing out global these issues.

Are there is another chapter works well and has used on climate change is Andy woman's school friend Jeremy Clarkson that is it true Jeremy Clarkson in what I thought was a promotional Gambit in a recent news babe.

He's changed his views about I don't think Attenborough needs to think I've got a job anymore.

He's like we went to fill my latest big film in the Mekong and we.

Cross right in front of our eyes.

It's of embodiment of climate change we was supposed to be we're in a lake that supposed to be very deep and 108 wide and it was waist deep for 70mph because this is the moment it happened in many ways we could get across this fascinating country.

We could use for tractors, but Mr woman decided we should need to at this very spot with three boats and that hasn't gone down very well with my colleagues.

I'm from Birmingham I don't see and I don't do both end up I signed up for a car show yes not cookery not restoring frescoes and not both assessments undertaken Fallout 3 multi-millionaire set sale in tropical waters and keeps crashing bumping into things and everything so there is nothing gets bigger the free.

Goes up all the time.

I could make a special that we used to make on Top Gear for when I pay on no idea, what's 2 what's the notes when it goes into the 105 yeah with the premium? I'm going to get killed to that one that wrong.

I'd think it's dangerous because they are there things in the end of that particular show when they were out at sea and the weather turned really bad.

There's nothing for them to do but enjoy and carry on because you can't go back you know you've only got to go but is there a sense in which the Grand Tour more so than Top Gear where the emphasis was even more servings of car reviews of scripted structured reality of a Kind he would never go away with the BBC

Scriptures treasure, I don't see a big difference between the Specials we used to make at the BBC in the ones we said that we do now.

We if we got two weeks of film like that take a sheet of A4 with some bullet points in a we know we're going to go down that river there.

We know we're going to reveal something with no we're gonna go to a market or whatever but beyond that all the Cancer Bats everything that comes out the mouse is what they make up on the spot and you know Talking drivel.

There are no 3 better people I think on that front they've been doing it so long also though.

It was if you think that you are beginning with Top Gear we had where the BBC was fantastic was they allowed that show to breathe and grow into its own skin organically so you know if you look at the top.

It's probably two years before we found our feet and nobody minded so all their interaction and banter became as close to off cameras on cabbage.

Get that some to your licence now.

I don't think it would the new Top Gear presenters those guys now drop into a format which is already been established as you build and yeah, we still found our own feet as we went along.

What can you do what you get away with on Amazon Prime video that you couldn't get away with on the BBC I mean.

This is the thing everyone said when we signed up with Amazon people have you ever watched the compliance team that David Jordan will fantastic.

They were that I thought the benchmark because what they would say is you know don't worry about getting a complaint.

It's just make sure you can defend yourself.

Get one so you just got a look back at the hoo-ha.

We would cause in the papers with all these always do you know the daily mail mark as all the time and mirrors whatever and we words that was under the Aegis of the BBC you don't make the sales of hook on now.

Do you think of Amazon prime video would make the sort of domestic relationship with Global thing? Yes, it's a dysart only a different thing if we sat in our studio every week on the Top Gear 1 and then thought about what was going on so like speed limits.

Are you talking about? You know I hate people who break on the motorways and then it goes in fact.

I put snipers on the motorway Bridge is anybody who like breaks in the outside lane shoot them next day.

You can imagine the papers it ticked off light won't believe now that sort of stuff.

There's no once we start to do a show that he goes out a month after you've recorded.

So much more global you start to get a bit less Parochial yeah, I'm your things I read that you you don't watch Top Gear these days.

I don't believe you.

I think you have watched it and I'll I can take a lie detector test whatever you do never watched it.

What do you think of you and I watched it because I knew I get asked about it when it was upsetting.

You know we're all ended well, so I was upsetting thing to I've got tons of friends who make it who I work with for years and I really wish them well.

I want to succeed him if I didn't like it didn't want to be able to say anything so I thought I'd just don't watch it.

So partly was like oh baby.

I don't want to watch someone else taking our baby for a walk around the park and to all our mates there right ok.

I'll leave the new series of the new series is different to the previously mentioned.

Are you doing a series of specials as opposed to a regular episodes yeah is that ultimately driven you?

The data Amazon masses on happy with you in the show indicates that the event especially the most popular data driven decision, it's partly I take that comes about is right.

We are we been doing 12 hours this week.

I've been doing 12 hours here for 18 years if you look at it from archive perspective so we thought we want to keep the quality up.

We got to slow down a bit you know if you keep up the quality and we said right the easiest thing logically there is to do the specials like do for your shows but have an impact and then we went who like all the streams in the Torah sleep tight with a data when we went so we're thinking of doing this they went interesting yeah, because they always right the most highly so it should have a little bit used to be used to because I come from a world of 7-day live figures overnights.

Solidatus all that because you never on a streaming platform.

Are you going to get that kind of impact of an overnight figure, but so everyone's going to go now.

That's gone off a cliff but at the same time does shows a sitting there now accruing viewers or little deadly mountain.

So you can never compete with the 7-day figure which is a big announcement.

Do you ever think about what Amazon's ultimate motivation in employees which is at their using your expertise and your popularity to the temple to be more shopping for garden shears with a TV producer dating well.

Yeah, we were in no doubt that.

We signed up to a corporation and that's you.

Got to remember.

We come out of the BBC where sort of commercialism is an arm's-length element to it.

So we did look at all that but the we sort of could you say we excused ourselves from it.

May be that we just when trouble we are a family.

You know the football we like a tiny little pigment on it with with nothing in those time, so we'll just you know take on money and make a show for them, but with you at the BBC you and percentage make lots of money out the additional merchandising and Licensing around the world round Top Gear and where do that was the presenter of Amazon prime video obviously presented with an opportunity to you at the BBC's you say around product placement.

Have you ever thought about asking car manufacturers to appear on the show we wouldn't do car manufacturers and never why because you can't have anything sponsored by Volkswagen and then we do a test of the Volkswagen Golf MK1 a great car you have you just dead in the water so I see when we did our contract with Amazon there was like we are editorial control was 1 and you know we sign off the last show sort of thing and to was all discussions about any product placement but automotive was like massive red light.

And anything else matters related because we be dead in the water and everyone knows not in the pool house.

So why would we go shoot ourselves in the Foot by do any of them to stop people forget this started out as a journalism is a car review show on BBC was very much journalistic and Jeremy Clarkson himself is a very much all of them were from a journalistic background do any of them to be manufactured try to stop me getting a news to we had some fossils in the old days and Jamie had a big one with Toyota and eventually they give up they win always tricky.

They will try and stop you having stuff, but you just wait it out because if we journalist that's the end of it.

We're not there to sell their cars you mention it was the circumstances.

He left the BBC One was sad was never an option to stay at the BBC after Jeremy Clarkson was no not for me because

And it wasn't like cos we went to school in with his mates and all that sort of thing it wasn't there was friends loyalty yeah, and I didn't mean I was like blind to anything going but there was friends loyalty but I was very angry when I left and I wasn't going to sit in that management environment that anymore because I think it was so clumsily handled.

You know there was a lot of anger flying around a lot of agendas flying around so I wasn't gonna sit around in that environment and then what kind of showers supposed to make you know they're like stay on the main Top Gear really was I going to do that was I going to make something with new people I mean that's just like kill myself very easy for the same question to the Ticketmaster show has leaving the BBC changed anything about the BBC's long-term future in terms of the viability of the licence fee so speaking to someone who's got a lot of affection for it.

Yes, but.

Opinion changes from watching what's happening.

I'm watching my kids are doing I think now we grew up with the BBC being like Fabric of the nation voice of emotion.

You know you go around this building most production companies or broadcast as I got what they make on the walls.

We got pictures of Reepham you know old grannies, so I think what you what they're going to do now is so stop saying we are auntie all we are the nation which is funded by the government, please that would be should be looking at the future of a license the licence for someone who you have to pay twice.

No, thanks Dad should fund national broadcasters.

Is there a licence for BBC TV show ever had

Well, I think I play an important role that don't think anybody seriously argues that they died and they do things that other media can and in fact the bushfires are a fantastic example the paper with rightly got most of the prize of the firefighter is the national broadcaster has been their finest hour.

Thank you very much for all my guests and Ryan and a ticket.