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Read this: #136 - Buzzfeed Layoffs; BBC Four For The Chop; Murdoch Misses His Bonus

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#136 - Buzzfeed Layoffs; BBC Four For Th…



Hello and welcome to the media podcast I'm only man BuzzFeed London stuff going search of new jobs TV Productions try socially distance filming is the end is nigh the BBC for Helen Thomas takes the reins at Radio 2 and in the media queries we played beat the bookshelf as Richard and Judy Book Club returns to save us from locked in today's Media podcast and exhilarating.

We have no less than three excellent first stop the podcast and deputy editor of pilot TV Boyd Hilton is here.

Hi Boyd hi Ali we last saw each other at an awards ceremony in a cabaret bar as I think I actually turn out to be my last night out in London before lockdown.

I've got how far would I have to spend it differently had I known that went from being an award ceremony that.

Whereabouts in the greatest would say no to make everyone suddenly, it's no longer enough to be nominated.

No, no you have to wear one in my life, so I've started watching Hollywood and trial by media and normal people what else should be on my watch list of London if you like ultraviolence and riveting Caroline's and beautifully filmed games of Gangs of London Sky TV ok.

Thank you.

Also returning to the show from Radio 4 Woman's Hour and the brilliant fortune podcast it's only Jane Garvey hi Jane hello Annie isn't Woman's Hour brilliant then just a podcast yes, because they could do a lot with the with technology these days.

We're not quite human.

I quote if I quite fancy both of us.

How long will the BBC pestering you to get something that looks a bit more professional the actor was just because they didn't think it would last and they weren't that invested so now they have to accept the fact that fortunately here to stay so they probably spent a few quid on that photo yet.

I rather but I'm so pleased with yeah and actually haven't heard the show it is recorded in the piazza, Broadcasting House in a coffee shop without Salford so you're used to work in kind of on-the-fly different proposition.

What's it been like working during lockdown? It's funny.

It is a bit different do that.

It's really do you know I really need to write a diary right now because it's very very hard.

So you going to look forward to going and we're one of the few programs still coming live from the building then when I get there.

I get a bit depressed buy it because the building is I think 7% fall at the

There's a lot of empty corridors and the mice at not as omnipresent as they used to because they used to Feast on those little bit of those lunch remnants in the keyboard changed into the keyboards of all the hot desking even miss them.

They're not there either come to virus.

I don't know so it's actually a bit tragic and I'm not enjoying it very much.

It's some and central London being in central London is a demoralizing experience.

It is very lovely experience that are having usually you know I'm always trying to relate to people live radio the type you're doing you're trying to relate to the listeners and being there moment but the fact it makes it different in a strange way if you're at home.

He would be more like yes, and I live in West London in quite a nice neighborhood in a Shepherd's Bush market and there's lots of those actually lots going on still in the area of London where I live but in Central

It's just a poor boy band of homeless folk and people who work at the BBC and I'm afraid it is 28 Days Later and you a lot for your spirits actually but there are loads of people still coming in to be a chat the security staff who are always cheaper cleaning ladies and men are still there.

You know we can't forget that it's not just overpaid Pratts like me you were going in still it's some sorry.

I'm not overpaid am I have forgot about that? I'm officially had to take a back seat to the pandemic difficult is also.

I'm not seeing I'm not seeing any guess.

I'm on my own and it's a bit sad well.

I'm please provide me some more virtual company now, but your laptop and finally last but not least.

Broadcast consultant and director of radio tech con and Charles I am busy helping pudding Avenue I meant what the one thing is if you can just delete down for us that people really need to know to make better remote recordings what you doing first don't panic and think about your audio routing.

So think about where the noise is going into your computer and your device and where the noise is coming out and nothing make sure that you put some headphones in cos that will stop some of the reverb and feedback that you might get one of those look really common errors that you're getting when people are saying how I thought I could have done before it sounds and thinking it really doesn't I'm not having to do with too much at the moment, but I think it's normally when people are setting up inside the home office and they've got.

Thin wall behind them and unlike you they have done it lots.

Haven't kind of put up a duvet behind them or done something to reduce the Echo so that's probably a very fetching Cath Kidston number is actually step ladder by me whenever contributors do them.

I can see them on the webcam.

I was so some of them.

Are you sure you're going to be able to be under the blanket for the next half an hour? Have you really thought this through seems like a good idea to begin with my friend had a good day.

He do that.

He just puts two pillows at right-angles behind his microphone and just makes the microphone.

Have a bit of insulation rather than the rest of the room which is much more way of doing things ok, let's get on with the news now.

We here today and well another week another round of redundancies unfortunately because BuzzFeed has announced that its operations in the UK will close and Australia to as it Focuses on its us.

And there are actually only about 10 or so, London based journalist left at BuzzFeed to be affected by this but it still feels like a significant blow.

Yes, they've had good stories and obviously from the point of view of UK coverage and as for the individuals at the moment this there's so many job cuts and changes and things going on and I feel really sorry for all of the journalist to having too kind of deal with that on top of everything else.

I feel very sorry for the dentist involved his remarkable but we did manage to turn the story around you know when they started their division.

He was almost impossible to hear any reference to that grows without someone referencing you know listicles or lolcats.

I've got some really really talented young journalist working for them all of them.

I assume we'll be snapped up within the next couple of days and weeks and you really hope so because they are absolutely Richard

I am a bit cos I have to say did it ever make money does BuzzFeed make money is that what it's about does anybody know I don't know for sure but I doubt it very much the does no money.

Yeah, I think maybe the US operation alone makes money, but it's only seems to be the case of this they made these cuts to save money because it is economically rather perilous you put the rubbish.

They make enough money perhaps.

You know normal times to justify the girls and probably not being nude in the bottom line for every new advertising presumably plummeted.

What kind of advertising would they get the moment? I don't really understand the Business of a lot of these online news services journalistic operations because there's hardly any advertising anyway in that in that space so I never noticed the power power generates Monday night in the focus seems to be very much.

Brixham and I think almost because of the cliche of the list of course of course, it's completely gone beyond that for years now.

I think almost the journalist working hard exclusives and providing in-depth or in-depth stories that they did but never planned on making money out that I don't know I'll let you know I think that's when everyone else is a wall and get you to join.

I did have the some things for the garden they had all their stories.

You know if you wanted to join you could you could pay money to them you don't have to I think it's easier for the garden to sell that kind of idea patent investing in the news business.

Just not here in Reverse they still going to be spending according to them 10 million more then they make from the operation.

This year's keep it Afloat

The investors get their money back at some point about the stuff as well, because I saw Polly Curtis from tortoise Media tweeting that it was on the phone basically but the third start won't be able to drown My Sorrows in the series which is in the UK media basically getting your new gig as often about bumping into someone at the pub or in an informal setting.

How do you get a new job in a pandemic? It's not true.

I think I think that they seem to go out of their way actually.

I'm going to find a good up-and-coming journalists or even very well-established 12.

They wanted a new kind of story that they needed for Patrick Strudwick for example LGBT correspondent and seem to come up with a relentless series of incredibly fascinating.

Putin exposes of how capable being treated around the world and stuff you know she went out and found him to do that job.

I think that seems to be what they were doing so I still think expertise if you like this will be the place to go rather than having to socialise people into hopefully anyway to my question Twitter isn't it what you're saying and people find you online.

I was noticing that a lot of somite BBC colleagues or treating in favour of a particular BuzzFeed journalists and reporters today.

So this guy of all this person is really worth looking at I think sometimes underestimate.

There is a real there is a genuine solidarity amongst the a lot of the media community and Twitter as a real help actually a lot of negativity, but they can also be is really useful as a platform to endorse other people and help them out.

We've been here before with BuzzFeed as well and the previous round of redundancies.

You know there is Louise Ridley we're not having some post and James ball and got Brian all of whom have been on this show before I guess one thing that we did do quite well.

Is it allowed those journalists who have their social media profiles and the stories are they work harder honestly at the stories of the stories and a relentless to come out with storage capsule traditional old Media people like me talking about media Rupert Murdoch has given up his bonus after big losses at news corp wonder how much bonus tiers if it's going to have a positive impact on a company losing 1 billion dollars this quarter.

How big do you think that bonus was does anyone have any idea? How much that might be? I wouldn't have that first notion so I'm wondering whether what does this tell us anything about x radio weather maybe is there a question mark over that now.

What do you think about? That is only seem to be mainly.

In Australia there's a couple of the regional papers in Australia in the end of cable venture out there could foxtail which seems to have backfired spectacularly, so I guess one thing that looks quite good at doing this separating of the different countries within that was a bit obviously poor poor.

I don't know how he's going to manage going through this period with without his bonus so hard but but I was a bit concerned because they said that they've got cash reserves.

They made this loss every three months and they said they got cash reserves of just over a billion, so if they can lose in 3-months and they've got does that mean they've only got 3 months left of reserves for the whole company.

I don't know enough about how the finances of the whole thing works out but that let out of these being a big figures that would actually be running that kind of International Business it doesn't take long before you run out of cash and presumably the pandemic.

I'm going to have a colossal impact on the organisation over.

The next 12-months advertising in terms of BuzzFeed what the hell is it doing to this organisation must be devastating but we have the more people can use more people listen to radio.

I haven't heard anything say that time's the radio is stopping at all at all, but less advertising revenue coming so hopefully that that's got a balance as soon as it all those little one of the things that I've done to change my media consumption habits is I've got not a subscription because I've taken three times a week, but I've got my newsagents to deliver paper copies of the times to my god.

Why have you done that because there's just on at home all the time and it's quite nice.

Especially was trying to do childcare at the same time to play with the paper.

Copy and glanced up and down without feel like I'm blue to my phone and I've noticed but it's not got very many ads in it, but if I am the new subscriber if you were an Advertiser would you want your gear advertised around this content you do.

What you want the advertisers demanding? They won't go into have any of its position in print Media next to anything to do with the virus, but I think they kind of Road back on a setting.

I think you're not be completely counterproductive presented that fact.

They were still advertising in now you see if I didn't have you know it's been quiet quite agile responding and I still think the first of all they seem to be completely and now I think it's seems to be coming back and they seem to be Taylor and get more suitably to the audiences racing the possibilities of that but I don't think I think the situation.

Where is kind of off the TV the Sky TV on which I bet you know in terms of like the streaming element of Skies NOW TV etc is probably gone more and more successful in this period and the and is launching.

X

And I don't understand how that's going to make any money so it's intellectual property as well, but even with that sale.

I mean obviously you got a good price for his but you wonder at times like these will be quite helpful to have The Simpsons and its properties is the burgeoning play Stevie is the book you know the streaming 480 of it and he's abandon that whole way of doing it.

It's not just about the money.

There is about power and Influence so if you've got multiple news outlets around the world across print and online and radio and some eat then that was so give you some things that you might want as an individual in terms of influence.

I don't know what you're trying to suggest about Rupert Murdoch punching power and Influence and control policy affecting because film and TV Productions can now start shooting again after lockdown restrictions are easy so bored.

This is the case of the prime minister's Road

Family interpreted you know he said if you can't work from home.

We are encouraging you actively to get back to work that includes film Crews it's too late to love Island but it's good news for audiences.

This is what it is.

It's better news for the for the thousands millions of people in the industry TV film industry recruitment freelance have been left as soon as I can make it not having any support from the government not eligible for the fellow scheme etc.

So I think those people that's really good news.

I just like all these government announcements about there allowing certain Industries too early to go back to work.

How is it going to work or not every TV show and film can be about the world of social distancing which was seen a few of those Frankie slightly pressing you no dramas talking about social rather not see that thankfully.

So how you make a film TV or TV drama scripted show how you make a scripted show in the

I don't get it.

I don't see how that's going to work.

So it is everyone else.

Have you got to make normal Alan Bennett monologue is a sexual intimacy scene filmed in the closest of close-ups with the utmost of intimate activity between people how is that going to work in these times well presumably there might be a technical solution to these things about normal people the way to keep some some of the audience if you listen to the Spectacular addition of liveline RTE where people with disgusting you're happy with the only to have it already married.

Yes, I'm autistic and decisions and also in practical terms is going to be lots of Direction on my ex is going to be lots of boom poles and one of the biggest bombs at the moment is going to be access to occur.

Because a lot of that stuff a lot of broadcasters have wanted to buy at the same time so the bit of a supply issue, so if you're looking to pick your business now is the time to go into manufacturing equipment that they or at a distance but never occurred to me genuinely that's absolutely fascinating nuggets of knowledge, but of course is entirely logical is also want to get the equivalent.

You've got to realise it and straight down and make sure there's nothing person person to person then use normal people which I really like would have been a bigger hit had it been broadcast in more normal.

X I think it's just the fact that all that wonderful God why I said that is wonderful and everything everything so much because in some cases.

That's exactly what we're missing a sex scene.

Is it an extreme example so it's one that you can just say well ok, you make dramas about sex scenes, they management classic Hollywood

Every element of filming a drama involves antisocial distancing thing as I mean makeup for example.

I mean how can you do makeup in a socially distant why you can't go back to doing my makeup now.

I'm saying that that the when they go back to film in EastEnders and Coronation Street actors will be doing there anything I also think they're increasingly going to see company starting well.

It does say that you're allowed to do things at a closer distance if there's no other way and I think the Union as well have already started to talk about this at what point people will feel under pressure to that.

They're not able to say I'm not comfortable with being close to getting shot.

What has seen I have seen producers of Phil certain films such as saying that they are going to have to quarantine the entire crew and cast and everyone that's the only way to get around is to test everyone with Premier League football going to create a situation where everyone involved is tested.

Can essentially be together in some space whereby they can then you know then they mitigate the risk for about an hour ago BBC news the news today that the office of National Statistics 1 in 400 people in the UK has actually got the virus and how they work that out if that's true, then I feel like actually slightly worrying about everything but that's slightly bigger question depends on how many people have had it and how many people have yet to have it and that's a guess at the testing is good enough anyway, so you talk about football boy there's also this is a media story because it's about broadcast rights.

There's also a lot of Fallout around the Premier League when you explain the basic thought they could get away with returning to play and not having to pay fines the broadcasters doesn't look that way because the contract with the broadcasters which of course is the biggest TV

The world the the Premier League is 5 billion over 3 years is extraordinary amount of money and their and they're supposed to each of the major because BT Sport Sky Amazon Prime etc have their own specific demands about how many matches they get when they show them the other specific slots in a Sunday morning at Sunday afternoon etc and of course that's all part of the deal so the Premier League can't they come along so well, I will give you all the games behind closed doors don't have the same atmosphere and it will be completely weird and so I'm going to have to show them on certain time out using it.

Just doesn't work like that.

So there is there is going to play will have to give back a lot of the money or least you know make sure that they charge as much money for the rest of the matches that are going to happen.

If and when I'm ready to leave Club do I have to pay back between 300 and 350 million in broadcast revenue even if they find a way to finish the season but I understand why they won't be happy.

But from the broadcasters point of you.

Do you buy their argument that it is a different experience because there's no one in the stadium or actually is that facetious because you know Ford Transit so desperate to watch the matches to watch it through and also and I can't carry in crop heads feminazi so I can see I can see the other side that I think about going to come back and cultural events and Theatre and cinema room missing those two and I completely get what she means but at the same time.

I'm afraid I am that person who could think of nothing better tonight to watch I don't know I completely pointless FA Cup replay between Oldham Athletic and Brighton I absolutely that's not the Premier League but I would absolutely.

What's it like regardless of whether the people in there or 55000 broadcast has dropped this approach them of asking for that? I should I don't know whether I think they probably so many smaller football clubs are going to go out of business or you fear for the future and these are such as the Premier League vital parts of Communities all over the country and whether whether I might like it or not.

They are hugely significant in the lives of so many people that you can get you can watch German Bundesliga football this weekend from this weekend.

Can I ok? It's something I've got that ok.

I might do I am missing you I'm missing bored and I'm person who's summer is going to be not quite as lovely as I'd hoped because I would have loved.

Well and euro 2020 and it's all gone and I was not bothered about I'm going to miss the boat race normally just really gets on my way sticking with TV deals for a moment.

There's also been a resolution to the long-running dispute between the BBC and packed about iPlayer and can you not share this for us that if you make a program they can have the rights to an iPlayer for 12-months rather than 3-months so now it's a year and those of exclusive right to 12-months or not exclusive rights to 12-months and what that means for producers in terms of selling it to other On Demand services after that that program can be sold or that series can be anywhere in the world interesting about who gets the money when it is sold because that's part of the deal.

Isn't it? The way it used to be just the Indians were able to sell it on.

But now the BBC were going 5% less iPhone when it says after a year for the benefit of having had it on iPlayer because a lot of The Independent producers of the show they just seem to have to agree to allow their stuff to be on iPlayer for a year which is incredibly long time.

It's brilliant to the consumer for the viewer by store.

It was a weird thing that you know great shows like line of duty around for you make you hardly any money off of DVD and being on Netflix etc.

So it seems fair enough to make less money that absolutely the rights that have been reading this deal those I think it will come down to the exclusivity non-exclusive.

Who do you think is it is also about British content making a name for itself around the world and not having to wait 12 months so I found out mainly about a normal people via someone I follow in Australia going on about it in the factory saying everyone needs to watch this immediately and it was I think a co-production with RTE or that.

He had a lot of involvement.

I don't think we want to wait.

Monks to export that to the body when everyone's talking about it in the UK so I don't quite understand how I guess not every single production will be exclusive rights on iPlayer have to wait months for media news will be back after this.

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So you can access your digital from anywhere Microsoft 365 help make our personal and family lives a little easier to manage learn more about the subscription that microsoft365.com family law comedian podcast Jane boys and am I still with me let's talk radio ratings.

TQ1 radio figures are in now.

This is just one week into the restrictions.

So obviously there are plenty of predictions of a spike in radio listening due to lock down but those won't be vindicated the three months but we can see Jane on the less in just those few days of lockdown on the stats is a 23% year-on-year growth through LBC so that does show I guess that amongst escapism people are hungry for news and absolutely I listened as much to be irritated as entertained, but it doesn't matter why I'm listening.

I am listening and I think that I mean that is essentially the secret of their success that Nick Ferrari can just have me pinging off the walls within 10 minutes or 10 seconds someone is listening started to listen to him and I should be listening.

On my way into work and I'm not and I'm listening to me.

So why is that is because he's offering me or and his callers are offering me of you that I might not here in my place of work and I think that is no bad thing also.

I listen a lot to Five Live still and I think I have not listen to anybody because I want live radio and I want you and I want the very latest information however difficult it might be I'm finding that I'm listening to as much use radio as in I certainly haven't been retreating into music which I know that the ridges indicate good ratings for 6 Music and people turn into classic maybe but that is something that hasn't been what I've been doing.

I know if your radio tech podcast on the story of 6 Music going up and up and up and up over consecutive radios for years now people say that's

Sort of early mover advantage you know they were there they had the marketing campaign over on DAB radio people understood, what is it was through 6 Music at now.

It's paid off but I think some of the other digital only station to have been around almost as long and they're still unpopular.

What is it about six music.

I think they've got their own way of being people who may be working at the moment.

It's something that people have on the background.

That's not the kind of over processed pop that you might get on other stations.

I don't think that their success came out of particularly marketing campaign it came out of the closet and lots of people doing that and that's what really turns into the mainstream that quite a lot of success in the last quarter has been I don't know if you remember.

Where is this new story that was happening quite a lot the beginning of the year and disadvantages of five live has because sometimes have a lifeboat happening in parliament and you want to hear.

Can you go to 5 Live and maybe some and and so I'll be seeing you can go to be seen it would have was actually happening straight away so that I think is probably also help you breathe in there and that you're listening to more live radio at the moment.

I know you're a voracious consumer of vodka probably slightly but yes I can see a lot of podcast.

I think that it will be nice to see what happens in the next radar the Alnwick data suggests more people are listening live and most people do listen to life stuff anyway, but broadly very very roughly two-thirds of listening happens at Home in normal times in around one-third happens in cars are at work.

So when we have this quarter where people perhaps answer much in their cars are at work.

It will be interesting to see what happens to where people listening podcast which is one of BBC's most successful.

Podcast is has really done well in lockdown interestingly.

I think that's because

A lot of our listeners are slightly older but also people who might have been out of work during the day and wouldn't ever listen live to the the radio version of wings out and now I'm eating out special time when the kids are in bed and when they finished I'm still there or whatever and listening to the program in podcast for later in the day.

I don't either way.

It's good news as lifestyle.

Isn't it rather than using County that you absolutely lovely whispery me or lovely Jenny and a nice gentle never do anything to anyone and it says the BBC's Legacy Legacy brands, which is I think at the same time as my appetite for live radios increased.

I am loving the gentler things as well.

I guess sometimes.

You really will be interesting to see I'm assuming that the five live in the LBC wouldn't go up another massive amounts in the next in the neck.

What is interesting is the weather 550051 they have big live football matches that made to live and I'm still listening to obsessively and enjoying their their creative ways around the fact that don't have any live sport.

I'm loving that I also think I I hear people tell me the podcast are going more and more successful and popular looking for other outlets and some kind of as you say, it's Jane enjoy your kind of more relaxed.

You know I'm I was fortunately to go to it and I think it's all ok alright, but I am I carried on doing despite the fact that we getting more listeners, even though this rambling on with all the talk about but the creative way around that it was almost more interesting in a way that the obvious discussion of these things.

To comfort listening I mean yeah, just by way of contrast with the radio figures at a cost which is the network that hosts This podcast have reported a 18% increase in listens year on year since lockdown.

They are the 2 billion downloads per year that is significant but I wonder how many of those downloads are all things like that Louis Theroux podcast which was launched in the last few weeks, which I have listened to it and I'm sure it's great, but I mean it couldn't really biggest stars on the radio for Bradshaw talking to celebrities.

It's not really a change of listening into podcast it's people seeking something comfortable celebrity interview podcasts which there are plenty but when they sorry it's still that relax.

You know by you get that you get from fortunately you get actually as well from Louisa Johnson for an hour is is wonderful and even though.

Is that really a shift of listening or is it just the kind of thing people want to listen to his in lots of different places now.

I'm sorry.

I couldn't be a radio show could it briefly talk about Radio 2 because they've got a new well.

They're not called controllers anymore, are they? What are they called editors or leaders or something? I think that the controller is Helen Thomas

I love I love all the stuff.

He hasn't his program.

I think Sarah Cox is just a genius broadcaster.

I think she gets it right.

He's got a really light touch fantastic sense of humour, but also reflect the things that people having a moment to a really good place.

I suppose if the questions but Radio 2 seems a bit harsh, but there are one or two I guess over the Breakfast Show if you're going to be really really hard because things haven't really recovered from the Chris Evans babies have to change change always brings about I just don't like the answer because I think she's a great broadcaster.

It's a really good positive fun program if I was going to say sometimes it was a bit too busy and a bit for me.

I'm not particularly the does a celebrity Friday thing which Chris Evans did did as well.

I find out a bit.

It's a bit too much going on for me there.

I'm not I'm not investing in there.

Bright rooms around BBC 4.

We talk about those so I guess you're the person to come to first on this is what sources are saying yeah, but nonetheless in our sources were saying that it was going to be reported.

It was so what's going on well who knows I think first of all I think you have to take it with a pinch of salt.

You know right wing newspapers relentlessly auntie BBC right wing newspapers with stories like these are not sure you know sources say that the BBC the Telegraph story said that the BBC was planning on starting it down as a channel like they did with BBC Three show BBC Three logo was an actual channel that broadcasts linearly as well as you've been able to watch it in your own time now of course.

It's this weird thing thing where you can watch normal people on the iPlayer before it arrives and you are later that day.

Etc is killing Eve another saying they going to do that roughly with BBC4 but I wondered because BBC4 doesn't have that many original programs and hasn't had for a long while list.

Scripted shows ages ago years ago comedy or drama so it has unit has got great documentaries, but if you look at the it does feel to me like they're preparing to do something.

I would say that if you look at the programs that now on BBC Two documentaries about Duran Duran and Boomtown Rats and BBC2 Peter Sellers last Saturday was a brilliant show if that like ABC for show and I do feel I get the sense that their commissioning more BBC Four top shows on BBC Two then they have done there's a new book club show from BBC 2 Sara Cox and also some more kind of Sky Arts TV shows as you say they treat new stuff on BBC for every week, so I mean I love him.

I don't get me wrong.

I was I was gutted when they are going to bring that back.

The whole thing is a mess isn't the reason that it's because people don't really care about brands anymore anyway.

I know we just talk about the controller on a Radio 2 where do is a big round on telly if the move really is to iPlayer basically it doesn't matter what channel commissioned.

It.

Does it people don't care they get it they get the normal people for young people in my old people you don't need to call it BBC3 on BBC4 I don't think that's right.

That's right.

It's not for the kind of audience the target audience that BBC4 has their demographic is older and I think that BBC4 as a brand whether it's on television or whether it's an iPlayer only offer is one of those things that people have the BBC a bit like Radio 3 in that it doesn't actually have that many listeners or viewers, but the ones they do have influential and make decisions about whether or not the BBC's exist and you need to make sure that you provide programs to that audience otherwise you are cutting yourself off.

What's the subcategory Arts if it was just BBC arts on iPlayer will not be the same and then you can put the BBC Two stuff on the BBC One stuff that I minded and often there as well.

I don't think there is still watch telly telly and go what's on what's on the actual Channel right now.

I want to watch it and I think that it's going to be it's going to be a difficult sell to say it we're going to take that off as a channel entirely BBC4 style programs remain part of the BBC's output.

Does it matter whether or not there and how many times I have used the services of BBC 4 online.

Yeah, what why does it need to happen at all but also I'm supposed to go back to the point.

I was making a right wing newspaper traditional the anti BBC

She has a pop at the BBC as a time when the BBC has arguably never been more well.

It's only in recent times never been closer to the nations prison, then it is right.

I think it's really fascinating question about is there it is it possible actually to criticise the BBC in the next couple of years in the way, but it had been got out.

I'm not suggesting that a pandemic is a good idea, but you probably could argue.

It's not been bad news for BBC in any number of ways and that's that so I don't sound like a cow but there is no doubt that.

I'm going to try and think of a way of phrasing this.

There is no doubt that the the terrible at the covid-19 has presented the BBC with an opportunity to reestablish itself at the heart of national life.

Just cos I work anyway, but I do think it's acquitted itself really well.

I think it's been so nimble and I'm not talking about radio stations actually, I think that stuff that BBC education has put together just been phenomenal and I also actually put in a word for the people who just organise the way we work in the building and my own actually my own splits programme program teams into into individual groups made it possible for programs to carry on happening and and just based on the emails that are program gets indulgent are traditionally mailers.

There is genuine warmth and affection for the organisation and there hasn't been for a while because of the Queen's Speech

Contact my agent everything that can be tempered by the fact but the bottom line is the BBC's income might be affected by covid-19 you might not think so at first because of the licence fee but there are issues in terms of international programs sales there are refusing the cost of news.

There's this looming thing of pensioners in the licence fee and the BBC having to stamp the bill so there are discussions about BBC down the track seen yes, that's true, although.

I do think it's a bit more of a problem for Channel 4 and ITV who's facing the advertising crisis of the moment, but yeah, I think the whole thing BBC stories also partly about dissipating that the next did you have to make cuts as you said you partly due to the pension situation all that and BBC

Cutting a hole service it feels like the 6 Muses situation all over again where cutting a hole service is going to create such a big rumpus an uproar Fury particularly.

I'm on the BBC audience that it makes sense almost floaters a possibility and I'm not sure I don't but I can imagine some people within the BBC weather report in The Telegraph and see what they say BBC 4 Campaign shows really want to BBC Two in actuality, but I can see it being making sense as a strategy to remind people that we have to make cuts and we have to cut a hole channel and BBC might well.

Go ok.

There is just time to squeeze in our legendary Media quiz today we play Beat the bookshelf with Richard and Judy is the TV couples latest iteration of bed channel 4 book club featuring locked and recommendations from Celebrity guests and reviews of neural.

I'm going to give you the name and the premise of four books featured in the series so far or you have to do is tell me who wrote them buzzing with your name when you know the answer so bloody let's go who wrote this homestretch the story of a small town in Ireland hit by tragedy in 1987 his third novel published in October after the success of a keeper and holding which came out in 2016.

He is also number to who wrote grown-ups the Inside Story of a big family going to say what they mean Jane Marian Keyes correct.

Thumbs up by Vick hope and Rob Rinder on Richard and Judy Book Club this is your chance to get slime the kids books little island where a horrible bunch of grown up to leave yes boy.

Who is actually one of your special interest in his new book is set on the Isle of March and is out now and so I guess this is the tiebreak.

This is not been fixed.

This is it all comes down to this who wrote the original novel on which the hit show we've all been talking about normal people got their first.

I'm sorry.

I thought it might is Jane go ahead and take it take the prize then you want it for the BBC rumours of a second series.

Thanks to Jane Garvey and Charles and boy help.

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