Read this: #140 - Times Radio Goes On Air; Media Job Losses; Facebook Boycott

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Hello and welcome to the media podcast.

I'm only man on today show Britain has a new national radio station to x radio + more media jobs are lost millions more dollars according to the podcast market and Facebook faces and boy card from a third of big brand of the season celebrate the Productions that have been made in Dagenham it's all to come in today's Media podcast magazine journalist and blogger Elizabeth RLS hello, Elizabeth I keep seeing you popping up on the news campaigning for menopause awareness.

What is it like being on the other side of an interview because you've done a lot of interviews in your time.

Yeah, it's horrible I hate it.

I love it because I'm getting the message across which is great questions that time and we have to think we're not just telling you what sound like to say so that it fits in the 10 second slot they have channel 5 news.

We literally got shoved into a SEAT told you will live sat there for five minutes and then got told to get out.

So yeah, there's no pre warning.

There's no nothing.

It's just purely on the hope so I'm talking about that later on the show also creative director of folder medium at his back home at the British podcast Awards are happening happening this weekend and they happening.

Can you tell us more yes so Saturday night 7:30 p.m.

By Clara amfo and Rhianna Dhillon so we have been rehearsing that for the last couple of days.

We're going all in on the live stream is going to be relatively adventurous in the present live and we're going to go to winners steps to give them the trophies so we have been getting ready for that.

What could possibly go wrong with trying to feed live video into her a livestream will give it back for son of excitement British podcast Awards.com if you want to see all fall apart 7:30 people whose background is podcasting doing a live video stream.

Not least the evershine retiring editor of newsweek international Alex Hudson is back.

Hello Alexa hello, what's the latest on the move for kids basically? That is what the government is alleging so the House of Lords of just released a report about how is essentially gambling for kids and to come up with a good reason why no one's regulating so the fact that you know you're going machines at the arcades that use definitely all parents have ever used over and also regulated by the gambling Commission in the way that loot boxes of expensive the £5 of time and there's examples of people spending £600 on it in a month.

They are not regulated an example of a particularly high Alchemist possibly of escapes the biggest ones are in fortnite or in and then fee for the FIFA football game has changed it's called mechanics.

Loot boxes anymore, but you can easily spend 203040 pounds in there and your chances of getting a good player or a great kit are less than 1% Are you working kids medium? I am really interested when a sort of mainstream Media brand like Adam Thomas and friends for example your then go onto the game version that you get my app store.

I've done this with my voice and you realise that what appears to be a free game with a few optional extras is in fact a giant and and within five minutes if you're very excitable four-year-old.

Yeah, I think the complexities are licensed brands.

So people who like to see things to do in the game rights to make stuff and are they entirely aligned with that brands used and does the brand understand the modern options that sit around it and also I think if he has a good example games that perhaps.

Acknowledge the fact that lots of children play them and they all know where we've got to be over 13 to play we got to be evening whatever the rules might be knowing full well that actually it's not suitable for young well-known boxers here.

I've got a full running order on it all free to listen to so let's get going it is not a good week to work in journalism or should I say if you still have a job because as well as publishers reach letting go of 500 staff.

We've learnt that 450.

The BBC's regional journalists also face redundancy Elizabeth your magazine journalist has been pretty precarious for the last 20 years, so does this feel different to you.

I started off in the regions, so that regional prices being hit is really really worrying.

I mean regional price is a lot of way that working-class kid like me could get into journalism, so it's lots of jobs are going which is.

We going from say then, where's the footstep going? It's already difficult enough because every job now ask for you to be in London really I go round to my old Newcastle Chronicle I go to the officers and they're not there anymore there in a tiny little office now compared to ever used to be same as when I was at The Scotsman then on a tiny little office so the original is has been used over the last few years.

It's been growing and growing and this time it does feel as if this is the end of faith is going down whatever happens now is just it's the middle of the end if you like very much towards the middle of the end of the end, because they have just been created so much.

We've had so many centralised hubs and they're talking now about centralising more which means that those regional news stories in a where you would literally get some.

To the front office to complain if you got something wrong, it's not there anymore and I think that will have a huge impact on the industry because you're not going to have that accountability that's right on your doorstep anymore.

You're seven something for example and it in Newcastle and you're working from a centralised Hub in Yorkshire which I've paid happening.

You're not going to know the name places properly you not got another region and you're not going to be accountable to your reader's is much.

It's very difficult to imagine what else they could have done though Alex I mean if you look at reach for example is formally trinity mirror this company revenue for the second quarter of this year is down 27 and a half percent year-on-year print down nearly 30% and if you had to make a case for a more streamlined Newsroom if you were one of the better now, what would you be saying to your stuff? Which is a really interesting one so the meetings about those redundancies.

No II happen started happening today.

So just before we go.

Podcast recording I was speaking to some people very familiar with the matter about what's going on with the Daily Star and the Dara papers now with 9 reporters on national newspapers with 9 replies and some of those reports of the filing 20 stories of shift and that's baffling and confusing and I think there's a problem with the model about how you need an infinite number of audience members play the advertising dollars so that you can make ends meet but if you're going to run a national newspaper with 9 reporters left on it.

It's a national newspaper.

It's still got a significant circle is just further evidence make people pay for journalism.

How can we move people to keep an appointment with her with a with a publisher? How can we get people to pay for the story that if 10000 people in Newcastle would pay for that German every month that survives and prospers if it if you can say it and executive level is very hard to tell journalist those 9 journalists, but those cuts are necessary and I don't have to work even harder.

Isn't it? That's my point is.

I don't even pretend to know how you can have these conversations because advertising is falling through the floor because of covid-19 but if all of the publishers a very healthy began the cuts wouldn't be as severe as they have been and you should have you see this of the group editor-in-chief Lloyd Embley who rumour has it his announcement was even worse and perhaps it might have been in there zoom meetings that started today.

I don't think it according to those people have spoken to you who were in those meetings.

It was not handled the best.

There is no easy way to do this.

There is no good.

There is a good thing coming out of the covid-19 crisis incredible journalism around this thing itself, but it's it's how you handle it and it's how you build a young journalist without the sun that stopped because of this even fewer ways into German and then there were three months ago.

Isn't it with what's happening in the BBC regions as well? I mean the last edition of the show the panel discussing the possibility of inside out would be scrapped.

It has been now and these cuts are affecting local radio which is one of the second stage is it from Luton to come through not to mention diverse tell him if we also talked to her a lot.

How are you supposed to get your foot inside out in effect reinvented a program with less additions.

May be less episodes throughout the year and on the local radio side it would have a look at it basically works out of 4 to 5 people a site and if you like radio and the the talk about so many double head is going and extending shows suggest.

It's probably half of those people are actually Radio presenters who probably has been surprised that the management that can have more senior management level imaginators haven't been reduced.

Sync my hunch would be actually in the other sort of voluntary redundancies that happening with the BBC that probably number of those will go at that point, but it's still meet people local radio is relatively well supported and staff wise now because everybody doesn't like anything contracting but I think definitely compared to Commercial competitiveness is something that is relatively well supported free shows in daytime.

Everyday all hosted by one person so I mean the connection with the audience really is depleted by this.

They will notice in a way.

They wouldn't notice structure.

Yes, and I think I think they know the BBC news.

I have to save a lot of money and a lot of nice things and things that the good across.

All aspects the BBC going to have to go and presented on local radio and I get paid because I'm covered presenting whatever the guy who does the usual gets paid and that's from at the most you're talking 250 quid for a show it's typically like £120 122 percent of 3 hours.

So they're not saving much money by doing really easy cross 40 stations that it's only those numbers of times for tea, so it does it does add up, but yeah, this is this is just the beginning of you large elements of the BBC that are going to have to be removed talked about you know.

What are the laws on the podcast but in a knocking out 250 to 750 million of a budget for thing that's 4 billion that's going to make big cuts.

Yeah, that's that's that's the Big Show's going elements of networks going you know to be honest and you could argue that the car radio got off relatively lightly.

In this round for the scale of it, they could have made senses together had multiple stations coming from one place sharing programming all sorts of things which was potentially but that hasn't happened to me once you taken this decision ok.

We need to save money so we're going on a reduced schedule if you go onto the little mini websites now for the BBC local radio stations universal.

I've just called the mid-morning show let's it's gonna basic fundamental misunderstanding of how listeners engage with the presenters that they which I mean.

I'm shocked that the BBC is doing I'm sure there's a reason I'm sure they revamp it in a few months or whatever but it looks I think and it's as if the list has over 70 because that's what we talking about the case is just don't matter to the matter to them even though the demographic for the BBC

I think people are becoming used to study though.

I was thinking to the day watching a news report where the zoom failing and everybody just accept that now so I think she is almost what people expect so if you don't have your name on the program then people are ok with that now as long as it's somebody there because we just accept second best with Elizabeth we discovered this week as well.

We will move on to some happy and using the moment.

I will be starting in August because there was some hope of a reprieve for the 75 you surprised they are very much proceeding with that because because I said huge winner for which our government is in be happy because they're going to be losing a lot of over 75s for doing it TV my mum is 92t as her lifeline and she's very fortunate.

Can afford to pay but there's a lot of people who won't be able to afford to pay it and it'll just give up going for it or just had to call scrap the licence.

They won't pay and then continue watching telly and going to prosecute for 95 year olds.

It's difficult as I was saying something have to be cut or the BBC have to work out a way to make more money for the BBC looks the more commercial things that looks towards more branded content across BBC World either try to make more money from the British audiences either that will that be brick box to another subscription service or back on BBC3 if it wants to the biggest stir for doing the least amount of damage BBC Radio 3 see what happens the entire loses its head everyone is Up In Arms about BBC says it can't support it anymore, but when you're looking at radio stations cost per listener.

That is the highest customer across across the BBC radio station.

And it hits the market the BBC already has and I think if a 95 year old isn't gamer TV licence.

I'm not gonna be backed up your right but something has to give her the BBC factual content enough people want to justify the licence fee if you have a radio station national one that you can get for free.

That's been launched in the last fortnight.

That is x radio of course mate.

How's it going to you pretty good? There's a lot of discussion about it being in a commercial Radio 4 which I don't think it was ever really the case listening to it.

It's a bit like the sort of 5 live from kind of 15 years ago.

We actually there's a quite a nice things news your news UK talkSPORT talkSPORT to talk radio Virgin Radio now X radio radio and talkSPORT

Two options in the biggest problems 5 Live houses the news people hate the sport and sport people hate the news so you know News UK now have more structured options for that pretty solid it definitely started very well.

They clearly spent some money on it presenter too good.

It's a bit middle class as is the brand yeah, that's not a big surprise and I think Matt Chorley show times political reporter.

Previously is good is some kind of feature ideas doing things like I think that's probably the most stand out at the moment, but it's all pretty good the fact that you end up in ever to be making comparisons with BBC services though.

I wonder if that was always going to be the problem with this because the times as a brand I mean if I buy a print newspaper.

It's the one I buy but I couldn't really tell you what they stand for apart from I kind of trust them.

Slightly right of Centre and they've been around for ages.

I mean basically the audio version would be the BBC wouldn't that's the problem that is the problem I'm in the Times radio desperately trying to outdo Radio 4 and at the moment.

I just think it's not got a sorry mate.

I find it really dull and boring and I found the pace is slow bit later times when there's nothing really interested in the magazine.

It's you know you flick through the pages and you know it's very working but you'd rather pick up the sun.

Well.

I must listen to John Cena in the evening.

I do think he was under used at 5 that it's nice to him hosting a drive show but I wonder if Elizabeth Alex has put a finger on something and actually mentioned this to its middle class is designed to appeal to people that we get to guest on the media podcast does that mean it's going to have cut through with the general public.

I think there was a bit of a

BuzzFeed earlier in the year that kind of time Sunday Times I'll look into reinvent their brand a little bit more like the New York Times which is sort of become a bit more UCL to sort of funkify a little bit and make it slightly more call the daily the podcast it reemerges as sort of millennials operation at least is a bit more to eat that way than the paper would have been 30 years before that I could totally see Times and Sunday Times thinking actually that's not a bad place to be moving to more subscription model suite of products radio station podcast other States but I don't think what they doing that sort of youthia.

Especially when you've got people like this more Giles Coren end of things or a Amber Rudd and daughter.

I think a little.

Unnecessary not particularly attractive so young audience but I can see why it would appeal to you times readers picks up with the radio station in Malawi it's just a really small tiny little fingers music if you ask us not you got the wrong radio station and it's just something that mean the rest of the National press can have a little bit of a laugh but I I think is it interesting idea because actually you know you can't charge for radio yet the whole point of it as it's not been trying to reach 6.77 million subscribers towards the times and the offer and so if this works is it is it unreasonable to expect other other publishers following this model and you know everyone says your radio is dead all the sort of things isn't bad but Drive loyalty in a way that means that people subscribe to a publisher for it.

I don't know it's a short answer to that one, but what are the publisher could actually afford to post-holder tell him to the BBC to present a newspaper based.

In Britain I think you're up against I think if you look at the Daily Mail group.

I think my sort of haven't passed away with that thing that I've never met anyone, but it does exist subscription podcasts podcast behind their kind of paywall member club thing and newspapers in money into things they think are important for their brand or actually for reaching politicians or or that might be no global relationship with LBC and we have a lot of time that is partly a public affairs play as well as an audience driving thing and I'm sure they benefited from their existing your the Guardian do a suite of podcasts already.

There was always been rumblings about you today convert something into a radio station you can totally see that Bloomberg the TV channel have radio operations ft.

About podcast of The Economist so they're all the ruling that is a better place to do it the top with any radio station and establishing any radio station is you have to stop listening to something to add this one to your list, so that stuff yeah that stuff you giving up the Today programme or Giving Up Chris Evans or whatever it might be it is typical and just because it's on does mean people listening about that because you forget that if you're using DAB and you've got a little spin wheel and you're a radio for a 5 live listen.

It's a bloody long way down to T you know it's ok.

Sweet talk radio and Virgin and also for x radio all the wireless stations a long way away from the bees and Alfie LBC is in the middle well, so you've got the funk before you get there.

It is very good, too.

Suggested presets doing sister everybody you can skip around that way, but that's because this is a situation where it is entirely a x cock up in the actually.

They have a self-install skill for Alexa which most people got not everyone got it and that's because Amazon and Google with Google home.

Do not care about radio particularly without us.

Lot of it to tune in they were on TuneIn so it should have worked but TuneIn Google's x / x Conundrum is built into it and it shows you when you go on when you go to platforms for the radio industry.

Don't own these of the problems you get if Amazon or Alexa or Google home want to change something later on that could not be good for you.

They can do that and I say back to establish a radio station that smart speaker is great, but you need to know what you're asking for with a dial.

Obviously you've got Discovery there so

The more radio sort of goes IP the less than the difficult it is to establish continue playing with my homepod earlier and you need to ask to play the GAA hour podcast with Olly Murs if you ask for the media podcast you get an old edition of the BBC media show Elizabeth how do you write the Today programme is that any better than x radio? I'm asking because there's a little a winner Griffiths and do you think she'll find the current editor Sarah sounds a tough act to follow or not? I give up with the Saracens Today programme a few months ago.

I will service in the morning now.

It doesn't make me so ranting Today programme so what triggers you Elizabeth Today programme Today programme that was a very I hate all these all the BBC is so brexit supporting, but it just thought it was just 7 brexit and leaving the EU done your throat.

The One That Got Me was when John Humphrys said you couldn't do breakfast for £100 these days and that was it I just went for the rest of the little that nice middle-class very idea and if I want to hear people shouting in the morning then.

I'll go onto Piers Morgan and I don't really want to do my headphones, but I think she'll be good.

I mean I do like p.m.

And I do like Broadcasting House will be very very good.

I think it might be more and it might make you change and I don't think I'll be going to be really too bothered about the conversation from x radio, but one of the things that is different that what I'm doing is there letting me interviews run long is a notable point of difference isn't it? Especially with no ads and you do they notice when you flick back to Radio 4 Especially For Today programme that you get unless it's the chance of it you get

With each guest and you don't really learn as much as you could you learn when you start working there that there is a very such as a program and you cannot change that if you if you even think of a few minutes you get complaints and lots of the sort of one angry person you get a lot of complaints and so when I was working out of here when I was a senior producer on the stairs when I was working that she's bloody great frankly and she went off into the Newsround she's doing piano broadcasting house now.

She's a brilliant journalist.

She thinks incredibly intelligently she understands how to edit incredibly well and she has Today programme her heart and she's been been around in and around it for over a decade and it's super exciting for her and super excited that goes next talking about BBC bosses finally there's a newly crowned head BBC 6 music now Samantha know what can you tell us about her so Samantha my one for quite a long time was Chris Moyles is producing there for about 69 years.

Something else production company so it's definitely been around the BBC and the little bit in and out of it.

I think people were surprised the current source of boss of six music up to left last week, but obviously this was about to be announced.

So maybe not big surprise.

I think it means that those BBC works.

Have a mixture of new and old Talent so I'll read at Radio One has been doing that position for quite a while to underbank Cooper radio to a similar thing where I can get PTS courses taken at the step up in Asian Network somebody sitting around the 8th floor.

He got out to run to the prison radio under a sort of job swapped out basis has come back into on the AC

Is a bit of a mixer and all those networks now ok, we talked about radio for long enough and we've done print with done gaming so let's talk about social media now and the growing trend among international brands to spend advertising on Facebook Elizabeth federation of advertisers suggest for the third of the world's brands are likely to suspend social media spend this month with US election hasn't it? Yeah, they're going to you have big brands like Unilever who are going to stop spending on Facebook and during the US presidential election so until November because they said there's just too much ate too much right wing racism going on and that Facebook isn't doing enough to countdown Facebook actually had a meeting with some of the top 8 for profit and Facebook basically just seemed to say we're not going to change by the sounds of it.

Groups were very disappointed and they couldn't see anything changing so they're still encouraging big brands to boycott advertising on Facebook they been joined by some big names apparently the Duke and Duchess of Sussex also back in the campaign.

What is a Facebook money is made to small and medium-sized companies and I guess a lot mate.

Can't afford to stop dog licking people on Facebook now.

That's not all business model.

I think that's it and I think Facebook is so well diversified in the countless knows how many millions of different businesses use the advertising function so if one drops out an infinite number of others will pop up so the big business is integral to say TV advertising for example that big businesses Facebook still can but what does Facebook do about it do global advertisers to the

Suddenly see away a profit margins.

Have gone down our revenues have gone down and come back or after this.

They realise that Facebook isn't a power that it once was and actually they look to diversify and also when it with Facebook Facebook owns the internet already Facebook owns WhatsApp turns into different things but for Facebook what do Facebook do they start limiting free speech and obviously way of the line like kill x destroy why commit some illegal act and that stuff Facebook argues that are already taking down, but when something is racially insensitive disagreeable.

You know the old saying as I will argue with you and I will disagree vehemently with what you were saying but I will stand up for your right to say it where does expand on that the problem is the nefarious nature it seems a lot of people being able to target directly you know what I want people who like David Icke and breitbart to see my advert for ice cream.

You can actually specifically asked for those people that's the genius of it, but it's problematic isn't it is also different things happen in different countries has been seen on Twitter daily top 10s of the most interacted with content and it's all kind of daily caller Fox news source of super right way and then gemstones been publishing the UK equivalent which from the couple of days ago was number one ladbible NHS Ibiza holiday woof woof some more ladbible the Guardian and BBC News and maybe the in America that much better using the platforms for their evil.

Am so we haven't really cotton onto it yet in the UK I think a lot of the the advertisers coming off Facebook how much a lot of CFS breathing a sigh of relief at the moment going well, we can car ad budgets and see my way good guys.

That's useful.

Isn't it? So will it stick around?

I don't know it's difficult I think it has forced Facebook to make some decisions that they didn't look like they're gonna be making six months ago that has been some movement on Facebook's internal policies.

I'll leave you in peace what to do about labelling content which they have they have not done in argues strongly against doing so there's something which is making them even more comfortable than they normally when I wonder if whether or not it's a long-term thing as this might simply depends on who wins the presidential election.

I mean if it's fighting then you know clearly all of these people have been asking for a mission accomplished let's go back to what you were doing before if it's drum beginner Double Down on there something.

I don't think so I agree with me.

I think it's a very short term way to look good and could any advertising budget while covid around think Facebook is too big into powerful now everybody.

Around the world and people are going to want to advertise on it and if they don't have Facebook can't really be bothered because they're going to be plenty of people who will still use it there are people there who to get to a certain demographic Facebook is a social media and Facebook can argue that they're not publishing when you have the little flirtatious Britain First for example of a very good at putting out tweet about better and sleeping on the streets which gets paid by my family for example these things that are being targeted play the advertisers as hate, but they are very much in a helpful way, so it's a very hard line for them to cross and I think of December it will be business as usual.

I think he is interested for the Facebook is actually write a right-wing government in America is much better for me and left wing government because there's been a lot of discussion about the

What they would like to implement onto the social networks and particularly that the big prize being to try and split up Instagram WhatsApp Facebook my day are busy trying to integrate them so tightly that they can ever been world ok.

Let me know what you think facebook.com slash Elizabeth are still with me and there has been a lot of business in the podcast world this summer at the latest is news of Spotify deal with omnicom at what is behind this 20 million.

It's hard to know exactly just 20 million-dollar seems quite a lot of money, but then actually so how much money to spend on on something I think the big shift is Spotify on their own add engine network for podcasting Spotify have a very successful and engine inserts ads into your music streams if you're a free Spotify user.

And so it's a version of that in other places and I think if we look at at Spotify recent netting of big podcast stars how to make an exclusive to the platform, what's interesting is whilst a US advertising might not changing my staying house for this broadcasters suddenly options around the world to do things by creating relationships with large media owners Media agencies is probably a good thing if you're trying to build a new advertising products as well as money.

That's in there a cash for ADS also talked about your research initiatives Spotify position themselves as the main brand to go to the large-scale advertise on podcasts your the network the networks around the world you look at the a course in the audio booms two networks at Dax no, it's in America 2.

Lots of a selection of podcasts by having access to two big stars that can be promoted across all of the Spotify platform not just in our poor in podcast a definitely give them something about all of these people.

What does it mean for me? I mean I've got independently distributed podcast some of them are some of the index will already getting in terms of advertising like you may have just heard if you're listening to this UK right now, so what happens if that's distributed on Spotify can we get out of that do you think of the Spotify catalogue being a combination of third-party shows like this one and then shows the are exclusive to them or owned by them all the companies that they've bought you can in the same as you might use a class for your ad insertion across your platforms and your listeners and people have to go to Spotify to to reach their shows now the the challenge.

What platforms is a can they balance the third party content and their own content so you may not appear in playlists or promo was suddenly.

There's a ad network associated with some of the shows were they make more money out of a platform for users which you know isn't just your own shows turn on Google my injector yards into third party.

So yeah, I don't think so, I think they will stop offering opportunities for podcast to move to to Spotify at the moment call Anca which is there to the self-publishing platform which has had seen it and I can see that being a root of people want to be hosted and monetized by Spotify for podcast series.

Do they think Spotify will do a better job of making the money than some of the other people in the market podcast listening skipped over to Spotify any point as any of this.

Put on you and Gimli anchor podcast the ringer or are you still you no listen to Apple podcast on Pocket Casts having original content Waldorf content or do you think they're approach of basically or anyone can make a podcast? It's still the right one 13 years later still of the anyone can make a podcast I find I hate the trend for every celebrity now to have a podcast if you look at the top 10.

It's celebrity filled and so it's just the same old same old I much prefer the old-fashioned method where anybody could get into the garden shed make a podcast and it would reach out and touch somebody to be very hippy dippy about it.

I like the idea of it being a bit more pirate now.

It's a bit swish its Sleek and it doesn't fill you up as much as the older ones that I found it don't make you think it's much.

They just same old same old.

Is very old names in podcast Alex stitcher who owns Airwolf for example if you have been making Comedy podcast for over a decade they are now about to be acquired by Sirius satellite radio jam.

What do you make that? I think it makes perfect sense area so it's a 300 million deal with going to the Wall Street Journal and that would be a huge station, but they don't have a pronounced sort of podcast presence and if you're looking for some starter kit then you need to go into someone who's already got the audience is already got all of the infrastructure and Sophie and podcast as we talked about on This podcast many times before it's becoming is having its absolute growth spurt and the more money they spent Spotify spending and Syria suspending an apple and Amazon echo and the more likely it is to stick so if there is wasn't doing this now though.

It is less of a risk of entering.

Wasn't it is not to spend any money on this thing so you know that they've got a lot of Big Show's nothing.

They just putting over some established shows it seems like a very sensible thing to do for not is a ridiculous, but not a ridiculous amount of money for young women the BBC podcast tell us what happened there, No Country for young women and they put up a tweet on BBC sounds where the host the host and Dr Charlotte Riley and Amelia dimoldenberg.

How not to be a Karen is a white middle-aged woman who is renowned for having racist views, but basically a Karen now is just anybody who is white and middle-aged.

And the advice they were given with such great things as go out and read a book or basically.

Just get out of the way at one point.

They said basically leave now that might sound great advice, but I have to say when I was there.

I wasn't reading books about racism because I was going out and marching against apartheid the whole pages stank of complete ages and with young people who consider the older generation not to have any idea about what's going on in the world used to work in social content for the BBC and this clip that went viral and attracted criticism along the lines that Elizabeth just personally wasn't even from the podcast it was advertising was it an interesting decision.

What do you think is going on behind the scenes?

Is it about this happening to the BBC has to reflect it and if you want to create a splash on social media we talked about you know the algorithm favours of the rising views right now.

That's a polarizing view, but it's the idea of a carrot is newsworthy the average BBC audience member is only just discovering what a Karen the modern definition of a Karen has become so it is a newsworthy and relevant topic just approached in the right way is up for debate.

I think it's an interesting conversation.

It's not because I mean that we were discussing this last episode in time which has also been slated for taking clips out of context but at least those clips were part of the day.

I mean should the BBC be making marketing material but designed to empower our people to 34 year olds who's the podcast targeted at and ask them what they have you had the clip was it might be different to.

Demographics field when I watched it.

I thought it reflected if you look on the website imgur or something like that.

It was in line with some of those those using thought and you're the BBC are hard-working incredibly hard and focus on trying to reach younger audiences.

Could I understand why that got put out to to to reach those to do that job? Yeah, I can was it the right thing to do it.

That's up for discussion.

I mean the problem Elizabeth is the narratives around you know race and feminism and millennials and the intersectionality of all of that cancel culture.

You know all of these things are huge subjects the get boiled down into these little nuggets that gets shared with polarised opinions on social media and noclip can do Justice to that conversation, but maybe the podcast the actual show.

Blacklist has made people like me who would learn a lot from that because your family have a lot to teach us older people that are just not make me do it and it's not the remit of the BBC the BBC prides itself on unify and reflecting the entirety of the United Kingdom no that didn't last very specific demographic and it was also high in the surgeon in that there is no Kevin and the when discussing the differences between ages it was very much attacks on women which again is not BBC mean.

You could argue that that's in the nature of the slang word.

They were discussing with incorrect the term calendar Devonport it over from America so then you're right there isn't a male equivalent, but that's not the fault of the podcast about it according to father that there is a medical is Ken does it does it need addressing by the BBC that's enough of this isn't it for a lot of people somebody that kind of conversation is best left to independent should be absolutely.

BBC fasting if it's it'll be at this isn't the best for all the guests on this program is still steal the old is millennials are the youngest Alexis best they're still not that young people are young people BBC let give young people agency.

Yes to BBC should provide a window into Society as a whole not just the middle class of its overall the Midlands bit of a problem for the PC is by being the right.

This is the view from you and you think one thing and let's have got a view from someone who who feels the opposite even entirely balance, but we won't talk about that the percentages, but that makes it seem ok, but the problem it comes to come out the back of that is the drop-in Trust is partly driven by a lack of authenticity in the fact that people's people don't feel like they reflecting real views that they're just being in the middle of everything.

I think having a selection of used including this one is probably more positive.

Negative I think the the danger is the BBC's always had which is I pay my licence fee.

I can't believe dot dot dot dot Q right wing Tory quote tweeting and spouting off something and then the BBC is stuck again.

They haven't created the problems that haven't created environment where they say we are the place where these discussions and we Marshall these different things that you can see that's the that's the course you will be fine if there had been a discussion.

It wasn't a discussion.

They weren't discussing the issue of Karen they were basically putting a letter out with say this is what you should do according to us a discussion that would be fine.

There's a lot to discuss in this, but it wasn't a discussion with guests guests opinion.

That's the other part of it now someone in social HQ decided to be a good way to talk.

But you know some guests did some content and why can't that be an opinion pretty quickly shows that they made entirely the wrong decision and they realise they made entirely the wrong decision will come home.

That's just been launched.

Alex to make us all feel warm and fuzzy towards a public service broadcasters.

Is this promotion they've done called our stories are your stories? Have you seen it this video that went out? Did it make you feel warm and fuzzy? Well, I said it was intended to make us feel warm and fuzzy.

So this is it was on simulcast on BBC iTV Channel 4 and Channel 5 extolling The virtues of the importance of public service broadcasters for some reasons people who are actually already watching the bloody thing you can only want it if you were watching those channels at that time in which case you're ready audience is involved, but what did you make of it? I watched it.

There was some things from all manner different.

Turn the voicemail other stuff, it is so forgettable like that.

It's my guess is why it was made is because there's a BBC News piece around different presenters walking through the street and saying stuff in there and I talked about how important is the news matters and that got all manner of brilliant social media reactions rightly so it's really really cleverly done peas that this is a late night version people wandering around and start Christmas TVs in ridiculous places as different programs clips in and then ok.

That's good what you're saying that TV is good.

Ok.

Good good.

That's nice well.

She told me you should watch it that there's no overarching out if there's no reason why TV is suddenly changed because of covid-19 the way that has little use public service broadcasters are different to other telly look at the great work.

We do and how we make Britain Phil United are they that they are they are different but the BBC trying to rip off Netflix left right and centre.

it has a skill formerly in bringing the country together, but that's a Public Service Broadcasting was 30 years ago and it's very instantly forgettable and at the same time that I couldn't regional program and I just watching the programs that they're getting because there's nothing else in the North but the Angel very cliched image of the North and between us it was the star of the public broadcasters saying don't either a sellers off forces to cut a licence fees don't be enamoured by Netflix who actually create the Works internationally even though a decent chunk of its crate in the UK but doesn't really reflect British life and that the public broadcasters other way to

To continue that I'm actually Caves on a pretty good job of bringing the country together Netflix doesn't create BBC Bitesize local TV news etc.

Etc.

I thought it was all a bit subtle but I assume this is the first of a volley of things that those companies are going to work together to communicate to government and the public was actually a bit unfortunate from Channel 4 point of view Elizabeth if you agree, but I understand why the BBC would make a promo like that and ITV I guess as well to remind everyone that they have public service and Channel 5.

I'm sure we're just happy to be involved.

I mean you know Channel 4 have their own case to make the government don't care about how they publicly funded but also take advertising and actually could be that the net effect of that the Channel 4 viewers was there a kind of saying we're a bit like the BBC and ITV I've been country to everything I've been saying for the last 10 years ago information.

I mean it was the the channel that was going to break boundaries and do new things and yeah by aligning itself with the rest.

It's like we're part of the establishment very much bigger bigger enemies on the horizon those in Whitehall and those in Silicon Valley for all of those companies try and work together to another weird facts about this promo is it was also simulcast on paramount TV because it's owned by viacom which I don't think people think it brings Britain together.

There is just time to squeeze in our legendary Media quiz this week.

We pull focus on what could be Britain's next big film studios Barking and Dagenham council have approved plans for 100 million film studio in the Thames Estuary if the Mayor of London gives the green light Hollywood's next Blockbuster could arrive.

Play of the east London borough on concrete, but not so big on glamour until now Dagenham has already been host to some story production sheets in the past few years, so let's see how much our guests know about the neighborhood Media history.

I'm going to ask you questions about Dagenham filmic story all you have to do is give me the correct answer before anyone else is question number 11 of the superhero feature from Sony Pictures Productions made in Dagenham last year doesn't know the answer Matt Matt Black Widow both Marvel films from Sony Pictures black widow had its release date pushed back to October from a mobius not expected in cinemas until next year to what's the name of the massive Netflix sci-fi series made in Dagenham from Charlie Brooker Alex Alex Black Mirror building was transformed into a clinic and police station in 2014 for the first.

On the streaming platform he is question number three this is this is exciting to play for now.

What is the name of the company Who originally backed the Dagenham studio project it is at pacifica Ventures that I was looking for their apparently pulled out over brexit concerns the council have let that stop them though and are in talks with potential joint venture Partners and here is question and also I mean is if you could do if I cannot make this is how I break that would be appreciated.

What will have to move in order to accommodate the new film studio site if construction goes ahead Alex market of some sort good enough for me the city of London wholesale markets including Smithfield billingsgate in new Smithfield market which were going to open a new site now the markets will be relocated to a site nearby that sounds ominous doesn't it? Well done Alex congratulations you won the quiz.

Elizabeth Carr Ellis Matt Deakin and Alex Hudson and that is it for us for this summer we are taking our traditional July and August break right now and we're not going to Edinburgh for the TV Festival because nobody is so let me take the opportunity to thank each and everyone of you who supported The Show this year with a donation you have enabled us to keep going thank you if you like what we're up to hear on your podcast and you want to help us.

Keep making it then visit the meteor podcast.com / donate and selecting amount to keep us going all year round if you make a donation for the small one you can have a future autumn dedicated to you with a previous episodes and get new ones as soon as they're released by subscribing for free via our website the media podcast I can only man the producer of Rebecca Drysdale Sherry the media podcast is a PPM production and we will be back in the autumn.

See you then.