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The great RAJAR pause of 2020…

The radiated a program with broadcast bionics created of the bionic studio the smarter way to make radio hello, I'm Stuart Clarkson coming up this week on the radio Today programme as Rachel announces a Pause will find out what it means for the next rajar data release and they could change the process of finding people to survey going forward over the next few months and we got more fantastic history in David Lloyd radio moments at the end of the podcast original music for This podcast was composed by MiKasa first radio today's founder and editor Roy Martin is here and it's another week where we say goodbye to another radio station.

Yes that seems to be the way of it.

There's there's a few hundred coming in September but you have got another one and only by the mighty power Hits Radio

Yeah, this is a bit of a shock at you for a lot of people I think so to explain what's going to happen.

If people haven't heard this radio Aire in Leeds on FM DAB at the moment is gonna turn into Greatest Hits radio on 96.4 FM the DAB slot in Leeds is going to take another bite pulse 1 from Bradford which is taking the Hits Radio network now, but radio are as a brand will no longer exist and there were three of them only a couple of years ago Radio 1 radio to Radio 3.

I know right.

It's crazy 39 years in Leeds and about decides.

It's time to go.

I mean somebody did famous to say one if it was a dog it would have been put down.

I can't remember the name of John Myers name to mention that particular person.

I won't mention John Dies but it looks like it's finally turned into a dog.


I mean it says yeah, it has struggled over the years FM signal.

Good on that transmitter radars a bit hit and miss.

I think I was at one point the the am service Magic 828 had almost as many as it might be taking it slightly at one point as well.

So it's had a bit of a troubled history, but its purpose built building was very interesting when it first opened.

It's right next to Yorkshire Television or ITV Yorkshire now on the main road into Leeds on Burley Road and lots of famous names have been through the doors over the years as well people don't mention people because we're gonna we're gonna miss somebody and then they going to tweet us your people like Martin kelner and James Whale and Peter Levy it was big name in Yorkshire as well as Chris Moyles going and doing some bits of radio there and Larry and Paul we can get trouble for those who don't mention evening bit it was called wasn't it when he died.

Evening show on that cause I'm driving to an RSL in Todmorden and between my house and Todmorden there's a little bit of the a646.

I think it was worth pulse lasted in the under yorkshire-lancashire border, and it was the evening bit and anything about Chris of the time is just another presenter in then.

Obviously he he went national and became the big story yesterday, but I I I I call myself the morning bit I nicked as ideas even back in the midnight, but yeah, so lots lots of tweets and Facebook comments things about the radio and which is going to change the Greatest Hits from September and a lot of those wireless and cellar door station, so obviously it now only got local breakfast shows and it's radio programming at other times or supports one pulse one as we should call it call Swan and Signal 1.

And now just got breakfast shows from Bradford and Stoke and all the rest of the program is coming from the hits network now especially people just read about it.

I do realise that roundabout when he was on pulse not station along with her seeing many of this back in the late 80s early 90s some other Bowen use this week.

That looks like a big job for Ofcom to sift through all these applications for forming the main one is about shifting licences between region so I'll come as they prove regions and Barrow said well.

We does a few here on the border and put those London to the southward to put those into the west just say yes, yes there are over 50 format changes which now you mention it makes sense for them to just apply at to award 3 km into radio stations in Northampton

In a minute, but yeah, you can see after all that word right.

Sorry I mean if the station said we are going to play popular chart music and we've literally treated to say mainstream music so all the formats of pretty much the same apart from a couple of words apart from sex on fire who who's got older it got another 10 years on top of the the age groups of another up to 44 year olds instead of just 34 year olds allowed to play Dancing specialist music anymore.

They can just play mainstream music for bomb which covers everything that it could turn into a Jazz station it would still be applicable to your just my electrics on thousands of formats already of course for the rollout of Greatest Hits radio in September and some of these regions would would just kind of you know places on the borderline.

In Wiltshire where Ofcom put it into the west and they want them in the south instead yeah, and it really brings it home.

I mean I know we're expecting all the stations to merge and become one but you read as I dread probably a couple of dozen of the applications.

Just to make sure I didn't miss anything and looking at the Wessex one in Dorset is it all programs can be shared between here's the list of Basingstoke licence the Newbury licence the reading licence the Alton licence the Andover licence Guildford licence the Chichester licence the Aylesbury licence then in the Salisbury licence and my god.

They are all radio stations operating independently 24/7 with staff with premises on most of them at least and they just gonna be wiped out with one single Brandon how many sound like I'm moaning but this is big stuff in this is this the big bold move about they don't usually do this kind of thing this stuff is usually reserved for Global to demolish.


Replies in the world where I am as well so stray FM in Harrogate is my local is station is coming going to become Greatest Hits radio and yeah therefore match vs.

They can share 3 hours of local programs today with the whole of Yorkshire and Lincolnshire so it's everywhere from Scarborough all the way down to to Lincoln and Grimsby and places like that, so it's new patch and the people who have been in radio 50 years who really care about they said shouting at the podcast now saying yes, this is terrible at the radio x xposure listening to this now.

I'm thinking yep, that's just what's happening get over it.

We need to mention it because it is a big thing it is a big thing and there's been some campaigns to save these local stations clearly with the format changes going through which was pretty much a former speakers of comma just following the rules that they set a couple of years ago anyway.

I presume it's pretty much the end of the road that road for the kind of save spirit FM campaign because Barra not something to turn around say alright with that one local and put it in there.

I mean, I know it shows that people care, but once a commercial companies made a commercial decision within legislation.

There's no chance it's not going to happen and where stations disappear and become a bit more national apart homogenised brand various new online radio stations are popping up all over the place with the hearing about more of the real live 24/7 is among them.

Just announced this week as well.

They're going to have people I can't see them Billy Butler obviously big names in Liverpool on its side before online radio Liverpool never seems to work Liverpool seems to have had that doesn't radio stations that the power and presence of Radio City even if it is network just huge in Liverpool so you're an online station to try and get a share of that pipes.

Just an impossible task to much today, but good luck to everybody that tries and having KFC on there.

We tuning cuz it's got a legend but the people in Liverpool really tuning because somebody that was on breakfast radio 20 years ago is on there.

Is that these days? I'm sure we'll find out in time to try before as well HG1 radio is just started this week in Harrogate which is online station sisters station to yo1 in York which is a community Radio station run by Chris Marsden that's just launched and another little radio station coming to Yorkshire soon as well online.

Tell me about a possible online radio station Yorkshire coming on soon Shredded Wheat of a radio station in my neck of the woods that I might have been involved with the planning a little bit during lockdown, so so obviously you're too modest or you don't want to mention it but can I say good luck to you and Nick 4 rumbolds radio?

You have said it right.

Yes, it's very very local name for local people named after the big Hills that run through our area call rumbletums, but yeah, I expect there will be more of this sort of thing around the country the future is digital Sony digital stations popping up and again with ours were online initially but the plan is to go on small scale DAB when it comes along to our area good luck.

I might even might even do on myself you never know we'll see where the future takes is one small scale DAB comes and what's going on in Northampton Royston news.

Just in the record today.

So this is this is interesting Northampton will have for community radio stations.

I don't know if there's a big list of which town has the most come into radio stations, but something's going on in Northampton and rather me ramble about it and probably upset somebody I think we should bring somebody in who knows what they're talking about maybe somebody lives there and maybe operation come into radio station.

Yeah, let's talk to Martin stage Martin is.

Which manager en Live Another community Radio station in Northampton is also the co-founder of UK Community Radio network is involved with the community radio as well, I'm asking hi there.

So this is a bit weird faces does a community Radio station licence was going to run out and so Ofcom said you haven't replied in time so will open it up to other applications and they got three and they've said you can all have a licence seems.

I was expecting it the way it was the way it was listed by Ofcom is it was an issue to serve the the audience of inspiration.

They didn't want the audience to lose out so I think rightly everyone thought this was a Scrabble for 1 licence and for ideally a beauty contest for that one serving that one licence but with the expectation that inspiration was was gonna apply as well, but it would be an open it would be an open selection process and I don't think anyone expected this was and I certainly didn't I thought I thought we were going to expect something interesting.

Personally thought and from what I've heard rumours there might be a second licence, but the fact that all three have been licensed is really interesting and yeah, I think for a population of just over 204 community radio stations is going to be really interesting mix and it all seems very quick as well because the only advertise this in May the closing date was done last Monday I think the 17th or 13th something like that and then it we are at the 22nd and they've ordered them already, but I had to be expedient with it because inspirations current licence.

I think is due to expire at the end of this week and they wanted to try that licence, but there was a continuation for the audience.

So that's why they're being so speedy and I must admit hats off to a concert for turning around in such such a time.

It makes you wonder why is like you know ssdab and previous rounds of FM and licensed extensions and everything else can take some time so they certainly couldn't can deliver when they need to.

Goodnight and in terms of the state of the community radio sector and a lot of been struggling at the moment because of the pandemic and funding issues on the regulatory point of view There is obviously a massive gap for community radio with changing everything that they're doing with local commercial radio and Ofcom with this and with other things it's saying at the moment seems to be allowing Community Radio to change and do what it wants relaxing formats or extending areas and that kind of thing there's a recognition that there is an opening up market of traditional local community Focus radio particularly our announced changes and I think the there's been a policy shift or some sort of change of content to take the reigns of community radio and an able to be the spread its wings and take up those audiences that want passionate local local radio that is delivered all about the area their communities from travel to.

Close to the particularly with covert radios play such a vital role with local information and now with the rebuilding of local economies, so it's it is a great opportunity for community radio at this time to be no Stepping Stones caps really clearly decided.

There is enough space for for community licences in in Northampton if there is there you know it's community stuff going on to share out a monster and in terms of revenues as well to share out and I think that's the big question and that and that's obviously what we're going to see happen over the 18 months to years.

What's inspiration is now continuing their licence the other two licences now having it up to two years to launch.

So if you I don't think they really expectation to be launching next week.

I do wonder about the sustainability of Community Radio 4 for licences in the town and I'm open-minded to work together.

I think only in collaboration.

Can we actually make this work sustain?

All four of us are interesting when you speak to Ofcom under current legislation.

There is no protection with FM Licensing on for existing c are there after commercial they have to local commercial station.

They would have to take into account but there is no consideration of the sustainability of viability of the market for Community Radio because I had this conversation exactly Ofcom and said you know that's not them in their power to look at really could just pick me up on that might in the sustainability of these stations.

Obviously revenue is only half the story all four of you be going for grants and and community pots of money in the same time is hard enough when there's one station looking for a community type of money but all four of you going through the same that can be almost impossible to really that is the real big question absolutely you know it's alright when you've got stations with very clear distinctive of different audiences like at currently without live.

Operation very to different audiences trying to do things differently or four different different people but with a sense of collaboration, but absolutely you know if somebody has been running the station since September within live I can tell you.

It's a real struggle to get grants in the town.


Are you know it's not a grant which place? It's what I mean.

You may not know Northampton history, but this is also.

I swear.

It's been forced to form a new unitary authority because actually the local County Council effectively went bankrupt twice and the last three or 4 years or whatever it is, so it's an area which is going through a lot of dynamic change itself.

So it will be really interesting to see what happens but absolutely sustainability both in terms of commercial advertising but also in grants.

I think the real question here.

I'm just a pick up on what he said either Ofcom can do things really fast if they really really need to or maybe somebody messed up and they said what about Northampton

Approve Northampton NN3 just go for it.

Sorry give them all the licence are a lot more open to the power of community radio more than ever and I think that's more the changes.

We've seen that with all these licensed extensions and stuff like that.

I think I've had shifted gear and are a lot more open to having a conversation about what Community Radio can be and should be delivering so you know there was a fool robust process in place.

We would expect nothing less from off gone, but I think I think where is traditional coming onto my D90 with Community Radio I think the default now is a yes if that makes sense.

It's crazy because normally take 9 days to get a reply on email let alone at ward 33 different radio station.

Just everybody listening that might want to set up a community Radio station thinking well.

I want a piece of this.

What where are we at the moment with?

Stations open in different rounds and things like that just pick your brains UK Community Radio network had a meeting recently off come and I'll come reiterated that there will be no new FM rounds until ssdab has at least be going to be resolved or has been resolved their stunning by their stance that had for about the last couple of years.

They see ssdab is the priority for the radio in the middle of the community radio sector and obviously the deadlines for that the first couple of rounds that start beginning in September so it's all about ssdab now at before country approach that will take a good alright.

So nothing happening anytime soon then and another thing on BBC Radio just to mention is that the community radio fund has reopened at the game out of money couple of months ago and another £73,000 for community station, Stewart

That's fine the details about that radio I know you are so excited that there isn't going to be any new radar data for the next few months you soon 1:45, so we won't be staying up all night writing about it for everybody so we got a night off and maybe even 2:45 and maybe even quarter for we won't have any data that we've got that kind of information coming up later on on this very podcast no doubt yes Lindsay from Radio will be on in just a few minutes.

So still waiting for that, but yeah quite a changing Skype for reporting to do those radio stories and make a headset with all the numbers at least for a few months the Irn Awards at 2020 going to be posted online at the end of this month 30th of July at hosted by Kate Burley off of Sky News and I'm looking forward to this happening and next month on Radio 2 Bob and Greg is the

Radio 1 Greg James chatting to Bob Harris at 50-years on to the week, I think sensors Radio 1 debut in August 1970 listening to that as well that sounds good right.

I think that's all the news for now.

Obviously there's more at radio people can look up for themselves and will be back with something similar next week.

I guess alright.

That's it.

You didn't ask me how I was at the beginning of this.

I don't know anybody noticed that we think if the pleasantries this week.

Are you alright? Are you alright? How are you? Sorry? I'm busy busy busy keeping alright.

Let's move onto the next segment the radiated a program with bionic creators of The Bionic studio listening watching reacting to and learning from every spoken word Kolo sweet and SMS to a mix unlock and understand.

The bionic studio transforms everything about radio except the way you make it has brought many changes to the radio industry.

We learn more details this week about how is impacting the measurement of radio audience data radar has announced that research is on hold and that is looking at New options for going for animal about this from Lindsay ferida.

Na trasie who's on the podcast with us this week at Lindsey tell us first year what happened when this pandemic hit the end of March we could no longer do face-to-face recruitment is a diary system, but we do people buy an interview is 25800 as of the end of March Wandsworth and then that was no longer.

We can then you would have to be a contingency and it was cold so we started a lot of the radio back to them before they go back to them before actually other surveys used in a tracker service in like 1000 panel.

We asked to fill out a diary 1 weeks out of the month for the next 3-months 1000 samples for that come to that later.

What that can change the divulge but there's no way that that was going to you and you looked at my baby modelling those individuals on producing.

You know the gold standard data set but that wasn't going to be so when you the witch have to think about a new method or various different ways or trying to recruit people in that time.

Never going to be an easy transition you can't just move from one methodology to another someone to eat the other day saying are you know do not think we can just zoom really just open people's teams on and asking them to work with that.

I think probably in upwards of 2 million per quarter to do something like that.

It is feasible, but I can think of to be in place to look at different ways of recruiting people to fill in the diary stuff to do that or you know some form of passive measurement or something that will work in unison going forward, but I think what was accepted is the one we be anything until Q4 2020 very very earlier.

Moving onto I'm so we are texting people buy a telephone call and online and there is another face many Tesco's at the manager's to see how you know people would respond by interviewer Chaplin the actor that was the meeting that was just in early to be with people responded to the end of yours coming to the door.

Has it been positive has it been raining all know it's been a lot of people just desperate to talk to someone to get back to work things like that.

What is a slow and steady process will have to do more extended test with the the telephone line recruitment to see what kind of listening that you know gives us another thing about moving switching to a different way of recruiting people.

Lakes in the listening so when you know from other methodologies electronic for example the reach of much higher than diabetes, what league are many things to consider.

I think the idea that people think that you can just switch from one another is very hot when is the gold standard when there's a lot of money being spent and spend and things like that.

We are looking at ways of Q4 2020 q1 2021 so in in the meantime then what are stations going to get you still coming out some new releases? What will happen on release day next week the data.

Set that will be available to the station is the original q.

BR with the updated populations to every year due to most service update the populations because this is have changed so for example the more than it was a year ago.

We have to be this you know on the actual UK population so we've added to them.

It was the numbers at Holmer be at a very very small micro level then the fundamentals is that this is not listening.

You know the new dataset.

That's coming out with the data from the last order with the population updates and what stations will get there a standard reports that they won't use it in a public forum.

We can but they can't see that you can't allude to the fact that is an interesting listening or listeners, because it isn't any movements.

And obviously for smaller stations their reporting half year or yearly figures generally anyway, so what are the data? That's used in their fingers actually from last summer so it doesn't you know it doesn't affect them and anyway the only time that the port on a quarterly basis of your big national grants that are available on every platform so that you know the we call it a rolling sample but the idea Roland samplers in Cross that even in a small stations.

Just wouldn't be able to publish on a quarterly basis.

Just wouldn't be enough to do on the twelve-month basis of older more established stations have got a lot of data that they know in terms of their shows and what the the breakdown said today parts.

Harder for a newer station, that's just come along as only been in radio cover quarters.

I've just joining rage are so he done anything to help them at all.

I think there's only a handful of species that are the ones that reported in q1.

You know will not be affected.

I think what you're getting out of the stations that have come on after that.

You know where do to be obviously any news station that come on in this time? I was due to be measured in this time.

We can is nothing we can do about that for example.

Maybe x radio that have their own kind of steak that you know it could be looking at modelling internally but unfortunately I've been duty to keep their names on the diaries of Q2 than that you know there's nothing we can unfortunately do about that in terms of the options then going forward obviously you're the radio board is made up of the BBC

What percent is a commercial radio in the advertising industry and I know is an organisation you've got this kind of the way that your structured means you will have unanimous decisions on your board.

How easy and quickly might need to come to a new way forward with all those different partners have before kind of Word level is a technical management group level which again there's more representatives from the BBC Radio the IPA in the advertisers accenture, so when it's something that directly involve the survey kind of the first point of contact as a monthly meetings and most people you know every option first then once the most beautiful ones are ready to be decided upon and then it'll be a you know that everyone has the benefit everyone will have to be transparent as fair as possible for the BBC and for commercial.

Very long journey to the credits of the options going forward or looking at is about how you recruit people to your survey and not completely changing the model.

I know things have been said in the past that using watches or smart devices to listen and work out what people listen to you're still talking about people filling in Diaries methodology being looked at the beginning with SR for recruitment.

There is a dnd session as well, which would be a combination of the diary listens impossible from the mediacell app.

I don't know if you know what that is, but it has the same functionality as a watch that people meet or something like that.

So it wouldn't be simply from one method straight onto different method because what we want to do is keep the continuity from the data source of beacon.

Example of for producing beginning to feel like it's that continues from one compatible to the revised and rather than moving much.

I need to do that.

I will be you know I hated me for another method of treatment to to the diary, but probably more depending on what happens when being able to go to people's doors as well because telephone calling people work to the people you know you've got you'll have more responsibly and a bit of strength at this period things do change and people start going to work at university so many moving parts.

Not a new not a whole new methodology is well with people not answering their phones or telling to clear off as I do when I get I don't want to talk to you.

I'm not interested in your research.

What is this looking to be representative of the UK population is the unit of the change in the house somewhere more excellent well, we're looking forward to seeing what happens with it because you never mentioned about the panel before you know some people who are the people that have been keeping a diary a week per month.

What I'm doing from it would seem as a listening and lockdown report so I think it might not be called that yet, but that's just the Working Title also become a global standard internal track card and Barrett operation from the chat.

You know we can see some trains which may be different at the very very beginning of lockdown and how it is now.

I'm just getting back together and I didn't want to be put out in the week of release to cause confusion for the first week in August as much as you know it's not there.

You know the lesson and they are they compatible it does give us insight into what has been happening during that period of time.

Yeah, I might kill on.

This podcast to restart Mac from radio player was talking about their own internal figures and they've seen as you say at the start of the lock down.

There was about 50% increase in said in inreach to radio via listening through radio player stats home we up in the beginning because you know looking at West Mumbai location is very very different so that's half of the reports Tony as well about how you're not because people were at home how the world and now as people eat back work.

You know the location of people listening driving in travelling now.

We are at all.

Just on the online listening.

Obviously you know your data and Compass is a platform that people listen to in normal radar time so I mean some people might say why?

Use the online data and then build up the other listening around it but I suppose a that's not your data and your relying on the 30th of it from third parties and be it.

Would then need some audiences you never listen online that you wouldn't be able to represent the music Empire of a lot of the diary app which platform listen listen online which would want to buy your smartphone or a voice activated speaker any of that the Screaming Starts with never really Incorporated that at this point because it can be are you don't know how many people are behind the stream as well, how many people are and it's never really been amazing because you can't determine the person who is listening.

The thing about using third party we wouldn't be able to verify and then who do you choose which is best in the BBC have to be like that you don't have to be something together as one whole thing well looking forward to the 1 revised figures next week in your you're listening in lockdown report micro within and not from listening and I think everyone is it's really weird that I will look forward as well something perhaps later in the year about how you going to move forward with it will have an incident about that once all the tested on and we don't do anything in a hurry up.

Thank you, Lindsey ferrigan from Radio talking to hear on the radio Today programme and just had a David Lloyd a reminder that you might want to check out called cleanfeed if you are doing broadcasting from different places to normal as things start to resume after the lockdown.

It's great for outside broadcast if you can do any of those at the moment great for doing interviews with co-hosting shows from different places getting yourself on the air from home.

It's been designed for radio people and podcast as well.

It's really simple to use and the quality is great all just using your browser won't cost you anything to get started will take 30 seconds or so to get Side Up and you're doing your first live interview or recording or getting on the air within minutes find out more about it at cleanfeed dotnet radio when it comes to benchmark features.

There's one that ruled shops offices hairdressers building site all came to a halt as this.

Rang out Across The Nation each morning and begins as follows when she was 13 years old wearing a school uniform she had a Saturday job and all the staff were nice, but there was one fella.

Who is rather special I mean a different story is coming in and around the student employer it so the stories go now.

Still getting employed to do it on cable show you my son and bikes which began this week 40 years ago the first song chosen by the way was Honey by Bobby Goldsboro for all those details of course was the theme from Romeo and Juliet but the evolved over time and I get the early boys over this.

Have you 40th anniversary to hurt you some of the great's in radio of fired from time to time and this week's famously 50 years it happens again finally Mrs Mary Peyton wife of the transport minister has passed her advanced driver's test first time she's been driving more than 30 years and said she was spurred on to take the

My husband's appointment is at 9 these people what about 2 days to telephone from her from the third floor Broadcasting House saying it's time for the Parting of the ways poor little Kenny fired by The Giant I sat on the end of the bed with my wife leave and she patted me on the shoulder jackton.

Sorry for myself and there's nothing nothing BBC the driving debacle seen as The Catalyst to Kelly's sucking but is Johnny beerling explains wasn't quite as simple as that really get rid of course turned up later.

Very shortly afterwards on BBC local radio.

Thanks to book an earring local radio messages.

All the wishes of their bosses on Radio Bristol at £12.10 an hour.

This is the last time if you do feel strange about my dismissal got a hell of a lot of publicity.

I've never been in the Daily Mirror more in my life cuddly little radio station and I'll be able to groove on Radio Bristol Rovers the sexiest be shown in the west on Radio Bristol of course make his way back to Network radio eventually cutting actually from 1971 headline BBC4 gives Ken and it says this Jackie Carey ever sacked from Radio 1 is being given another Chance by the BBC Mr Everett's 28 will be heard in.

Bakers the week on Radio 4 on the BBC said last night studio work out there could be more programs for him that we are the present BBC 1978 just about every industry was hit by industrial action including radio LBC to 61 medium wave and 97.3 VHF industrial dispute normal services on both LBC and Independent Radio news have been suspended for the time being we hope to resume our regular programming as soon as possible hello.

This is bring you the good.

Industrial dispute at LBC is now over and that they'll be an Irn news, but it in every hour on the hour from midnight.

Love those days the chance to hear station jingles for industrial action had LBC and I are rent this week 42 years ago 1969 now and who's this turning up at Radio 1.

Noel Edmonds who initially working the sound trails department and make a filled in on radio on before getting a Regular Show and then breakfast so with the Today programme things up 16 years ago watching the anniversary and folders out of parliamentary correspondent Robert Orchard how long take that so when are we going to try and get rubber door? Let's see this is the song right well in that case 47 years ago 31 years ago closing and jamming 50 years ago every western country has ever jam3 broadcasting station.

And the death of Marconi 83 years ago.

Thank you.

David Lloyd Martin stears from n ride and Lindsay ferrigan from next week for something similar probably the radio Today programme podcast original music for This podcast was composed by MiKasa

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